The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Leave My Ministry Job? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 4, 2021

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Thank you very much. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money.

The phone number is 888-825-5225. Claudio is in West Palm Beach, Florida. Hi, Claudio. How are you? I'm well, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. How can Ken and I help? So, Dave, I started your plan a little while ago because my wife and I, when we got married, she had some student debt. And to us, the $6,000 was a lot of money,

not knowing how to do it. But we paid it off. And I'm so thankful that she had it because that got us on a budget that got us thinking financially smart. And it put us in contact with your team and we followed your principles along the way. We have paid off the debt and we have actually saved up a year emergency fund just because of some things we've seen in the world going on. But I'm actually to baby step 3B. Good. Being so passionate about not being in debt and having this freedom. We truly, as a family, we do not want to get a mortgage. We would like to buy a house in cash. And we're also very patient people.

We're willing to save over the long run. So my question to you, sir, was how can we do that? Because we know we shouldn't just have our money sitting in a savings account. So where do we park our money during this time? How much are you trying to save? Our goal is to save up $200,000. Okay. And what's your household income?

$50,000 a year. And so when do you think you're going to have $200,000? We would like to do it with, we're about to have our first baby, so we're not in a rush. We would look to do it in 10 years or possibly 20. Well, there's a lot of difference in those two so what you need to do is you need to lay out a specific goal and then start saving an amount that gets you there in a very specific period of time any amount of money you're going to leave alone longer than five years you can consider mutual funds for that So what's your career? I work as a banquet server, but I work on Palm Beach Island, so it pays really, really well. I'll bet. And so this is the combined income. Is your wife

going to stay home when the baby comes? Yes, my wife will be staying home when the baby comes, so this is my income. Okay. Do you have dreams? Do you have things you at least wonder about as it relates to your long-term professional purpose? Yeah. I work for such a great company, and my dream is to move up in the company, and there has been hints towards that. I only have been working there for not even a year now, but, uh,

I'm very, you know, I'm, I'm very diligent. I'm very passionate about customer service and having customers have just like a top experience and it, you know, it comes notice because customers will comment on that. So I do believe that there's possibility that I can move up and with moving up, uh, the pay does go up as well. There you go. I've heard.

Yeah. Well, Dave's right. You guys have got to decide what's the realistic goal here to save up to $200,000. You've already got a year's worth of expenses in the bank for your emergency fund. We teach three to six months. So, you know, if you get serious about this and you go hey i want to move up but i also want to make more money so that i can get in that house sooner i think that's the path man and i think you're such a diligent sharp young man uh i'd get after it but i think dave 10 years versus

20 years that's that's a long time to save for a house 20 years yeah i think 10 years and i also think you gotta you know you're not going to extrapolate 50 000 we're not going to extrapolate $50,000. We're not going to just say linear no growth in income as a part of our goal setting and our projections. We're going to assume some kind of increase in income as you go along. Sometimes it goes back a little, and then it comes up. But overall, people generally earn more throughout their careers because they actually get better at it and do move up. Jared is with us. Jared is in Jefferson Cityerson city missouri hi jared how are you i'm doing pretty good how are you guys today better than we deserve what's up well i'm trying to i work a regular you know i can't say nine to five because like i work a.m. to 7 a.m. sometimes,

but I'm trying to find time to jump into owning my own automotive company, and it really scares me from going from a strong, steady thing to something that I have a lot of passion for. Be more specific. What's this automotive company? Is it mechanical passion for, you know? Be more specific. What's this automotive company? Is it mechanical? What are you doing? It's going to be mechanical for, like, engines, transmissions,

oil, lube, tires, you know, just all around general maintenance. Are you doing any of it on the side now? Yeah. In fact, I'm working with my father-in-law and my brother-in-law, too. And there, while I'm working my regular job, we actually have a building right now. And I got the name of the company through the state, all that stuff already. It's just before I quit my job to go do this full-time. It really terrifies me.

No, I get it. Well, we're going to simplify this for you because there's no jump involved here. So let's take this out of the equation. There's no jumping. But tell me about the father-in-law or what's going on there. Is this a partnership or is this your business and they're going to work for you or they're just helping you get it going? What's that look like? This is basically this is my business that I just got started and they came in and they decided that they'll do the big work of it, you know, working on the cars while I make the money, like with this job right now, to get things up and started.

Great. So what do you make right now from your day job? What's your salary? It's really hard to tell because I work agriculture, so I drive trucks. So I bring in about... What was your income last year for the whole year? I actually jumped jobs since then. Okay. What do you think your income is going to be in the coming year for a year?

I'm hoping $40,000. $40,000. Okay. Yeah. So if you were working this side job with your brother-in-law and your father-in-law working for you and your company was making eighty thousand dollars and you quit your day job that really wouldn't be terrifying i know it's just going from something that's no no no no no no stop try it again if you made eighty thousand dollars in the coming

twelve months on your side hustle and you make forty40,000 at your day job and you quit your day job, there's nothing terrifying about that move. Yeah. Nothing. I agree with you. Okay. So it has to do with getting the income up so that you don't jump. You take a step.

That's it. You want to step out of your old job into the new one. Don't leap. There might not be any water in the pool. This is The Ramsey Show. Our famous $10 sale is here for Christmas. This Christmas, you can save tons and give your loved ones gifts that will give them hope. Starting now, you can choose from over 40 of our most popular books, audiobooks, and more, all for just $10. You can get my number one bestseller, The Total Money Makeover.

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one of our weekly $500 prizes or our $5,000 grand prize. No purchase necessary. Enter the giveaway by texting CASH to 33789. Text CASH to 33789. Ken Coleman Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. The brand new book, From Paycheck to Purpose, The Clear Path to Doing Work You Love, by Ken Coleman, is now available on presale as of today at RamseySolutions.com. Ryan is with us in Wasilla, Alaska.

Hi, Ryan. How are you? I'm good. How are you doing? Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I'm in line for a promotion, and I've been denied the promotion a few times. I want to know how to move forward for the promotion. What kind of information do you have from the previous times you've been denied or time. Can I tell you why? Yeah, so most of it was when I first got into the industry I came in at the very rock bottom and I

was kind of like a jokester. I like to make everybody smile and I didn't think that this would have been my career job. Then I got my eyes opened up when I had taken a business trip and I found out that this is kind of what I want to do and I think my past is coming back to haunt me a little bit and I wanted to know how to move

forward past you know moving forward out of this hole so did they tell you that they think you don't take your work seriously was that specific feedback you got no it was more of I need to gain the respect of the others around. Okay, great. How long ago was this when you were last in line? It's been about six months. Six months, okay. And are you technically qualified to get this position? Besides the personal brand, kind of what people think about you and gaining some more respect,

are you qualified in every other facet to actually do this job? Absolutely. Okay, great. So we talk about this in the book, Dave. There's five qualities that make a person promotable. And here's the great news about this, Ryan. Whether you're a zero or a nine, you can move up. This is all about personal development.

It's really character. And I think for you, there's two that I would focus on of the five. I would focus on the reliability and I would focus on coachability. Okay. I think if you are going to your current leaders, maybe even some peers that might be a little bit older than you, they may not be a direct report. And I think you're asking questions, sitting down with pencil and paper and saying, Hey, what are some areas that I can get better in? What are some ways that I can get better once I've identified that? And then I would go over the top with being super reliable. This is just simply, you know what, somebody asked me to do something.

Not only do I do it, I do it faster than they expected. I do it better than expected. And I might add a third one in here, which is likability. And you're a very fun, loving guy, sounds like. but you've got to make sure that you kind of adjust. Okay, I was a prankster here. I'm going to learn the right time to do that. Maybe I'm doing that at lunch and after hours, but I'm going to kind of tighten things up on the serious belt. But I think if you do that and you show an overall hunger, say, hey, I want to get better, and I want to know how to get better,

and then you deliver the results. You can't just ask the questions. You can't just have the one-on-ones. You have to actually change. I think if you do that, you're going to show yourself as a guy who's changed that personal brand, the image, the perception of yourself. That's the best way to do it. Very, very good.

Make sure that when you do other people's work for them that you don't take the credit. So that's the best way to do it. Very, very good. Make sure that when you do other people's work for them that you don't take the credit. Okay. And let them have the credit. You go ahead and just serve. Serve everybody around you. Find who you can serve, how you can help. My friend John Maxwell always says, how can I add value?

How can I add value to your life? How can I add value to our friendship? How can I add value to our marriage? How can I add value to your workplace? And if I can add value, then guess what? You're going to want me around. And that's just, you think about the friends in your life, the ones that when you're moving, they disappear, or the ones that they show up early with a pickup. That's a measure of a friend right there, because I'd rather take a bullet than help you move. I'm just saying. It's like a root canal. But, I mean, stuff like that inside the workplace, find out what somebody's doing

and reach over and pick up an end of it and help them carry it. And then make sure they get the credit for all the wonderful work they did. And with a slight smile, not a jokester smile, not a sarcastic smile, but just a grin that just says, I got your back, man. I'm here for you. And you do that with everybody you work with at your peers. You won't have to point it out how good you are. Other people will do that for you. It'll take a little time because a damaged reputation is what you've got,

and you're repairing a damaged reputation. So give it a little time. But I think you're very promotable, and the main reason I think that is you've had your wake-up call and you've got this level of humility yes i like you just talking to you and i might not have liked the you that started there though because you know you were screwing off you were mailing it in you didn't take anything seriously if you're in a manufacturing setting you're dangerous you know in that setting and so you know whatever it is but but the guy that's asking this question is a cool guy yeah i think he's likable yeah he's realized okay i see

what i did i see how i established this reputation but he's not deterred by it he wants to get past it dave you said something that's huge certainly for a young man like this patience is absolutely the wonder drug here you got to be patient takes time to turn a reputation around, and you've got to be patient. Because some people won't arrive at the conclusion that you want them to as quick as you'd like. But that's okay. Be patient. Do not quit. It's going to pay off for them.

The Bible says a good reputation is more valuable than silver and gold. Yeah. And it is. It's hard to get one and easy to lose one. Yes. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Cameron's with us in Beaufort, South Carolina. Hi, Cameron.

How are you? Hey, I'm great. How are you guys doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, my wife and I have a question about what to do after baby step three. We're expecting our first baby in December. Thank you.

Thank you. And we're planning on moving next August. So we've made the decision to kind of put everything on hold and go ahead and stack up as much cash as possible until the baby is born. But then we also are considering just keeping everything on hold until the move and just trying to pile up as much as we possibly can. And then after that, if that's the right thing to do, where do we end up moving that money? My wife would like to move it into our retirement accounts because she's a disabled veteran. No. And she gets – okay.

No. It's not retirement money, and you're screwing around with stuff there you don't need to. You're not going to make any money on it between now and next August anyway. Okay. No, it's not retirement money, and you're screwing around with stuff there you don't need to. You're not going to make any money on it between now and next August anyway. We're talking about $1,000 here or something you're going to make. Okay? It's not that much. Well, this would be after August, after we have the money collected. Where then would we move it?

Well, you're going to buy a house, aren't you? Well, so she's a disabled veteran, and she has told me that she gets 0% down loan through the VA. So you want to get a big mortgage and keep a big mortgage? I can't help you with that. I'm the guy that tells you to get out of mortgages. Well, that's what we had been kind of going between. There's not enough benefit. The benefit for being a disabled veteran and getting a VA loan is that you don't have to pay all the funding fees and the other stuff, but it's still a stinking mortgage.

Sure, sure. It's still a debt. It's still something that's between you and being wealthy. So, no, that doesn't mean that you might use the VA loan as a disabled veteran. It might be cheaper maybe it's kind of borderline okay than a conventional loan but you still want the smallest possible mortgage on the shortest possible term okay we still want to get out of debt so we're gonna use all this money towards the house and then one last question

let me stop just a second okay because i want to make sure with the chuckle that you understood. Yes. Because that's the baby steps. If you want to work your wife's plan, you guys go work your wife's plan. I'm not going to be mad at you. We'll be friends. But if you tell me you're on baby step four, this is the plan. Got it.

And I think that's why he's chuckling. I think he knew what you were going to say, but the wife's telling him something different. I think we have a relationship issue here. I think we've got to sit down and get on the same page. I think he believes in the baby steps. I think wife's telling him something different. Let's ask him. He's still here.

Yeah, I am talking about him like he's not on the line. Is that Cameron? Is Ken right? Yeah, I mean, partially. She believes in a lot of what you guys talk about, but she's, she's kind of behind the, on the curve of, you know. Okay. Well, then you guys need to decide that. Ken's exactly right.

Yeah. That's, that's what I was thinking. So yeah. You know, are we going to work her plan or are you going to work the baby steps? It's up to you. Dave's got a tracker. I'm going to throw that out there. I don't know about her.

Yeah. I got a few million have done there. I don't know about her. Yeah, I've got a few million that have done this. This is The Ramsey Solutions on the Debt Free Stage, Todd and Jamie are with us. Hey guys, how are you? We're great, Dave. How are you? Better than we deserve. Welcome. It's good to have you guys.

Where do you all live? Fort Wayne, Indiana. Oh, fun. Very cool. Welcome to Nashville. How much debt have you guys paid off? $71,148. All right.

Very good. How long did this take? Three years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? Started and ended around $100,000. Okay. And what do you guys do for a living? I'm in finance.

And I used to be a printer, but at the same time my printing plant was closing down, I ramped up my side hustle and paid off the debt as I was walking out the door. Oh, fun. What was your side hustle? Comic book shop. Okay. Is that what you're doing full-time now? Yep. All right. Look at you. Well done.

Man, that's fun. What kind of debt was the $71,000? Our mortgage. Oh, you paid off your house. Yeah. We're looking at weird people. How old are you two? I'm 45.

I'm 47. Awesome. What's the house worth? $230,000, probably. Somewhere around there. I love it. Way to go, you two. Yeah. Thank you.

Very, very well done. How's it feel to not have a payment in the world? Amazing. Yeah. Excellent. So, now that's sweet. I mean, you walk out from the printing job and pay the last payment on the house. Well, I paid it down, so she actually had to go through the drive-thru to make the last

payment herself. I wanted to go inside, but, you know, COVID, I had to go through the drive-thru. That's so fun. So it's kind of anticlimactic. I remember a cartoon years ago, drive-thrus at banks are where cars go to see their real owners. Yes. You guys!

That's so fun. So what inspired all this? What started this all three years ago? Well, like Todd said, he works in printing, and we knew it was going to end eventually. Just the whole book paper industry is just going away. So we kind of prepared ourselves for this moment. His plant actually closed on the 23rd of December, and we made the last house payment on the 28th, five days later. So we just, you know, we knew it was coming.

We wanted to be prepared, and we didn't want to have to worry about, you know, finding another income if we needed to. You know, we could just relax and breathe. Wow. So when you decide to finally attack the house, what was a big sacrifice? What was something big that you guys decided, okay, this is going to kickstart this or something maybe you didn't want to do but you knew you had to do? I mean, we cut back on, I mean, just your basics, going out to eat and stuff like that. But I was working pretty much a 12-hour shift, and I was working a comic book shop on the side. So it was kind of like time and family a little bit.

Were you working for somebody else in the comic book business? No, I do it myself. I was a collector for probably 30 years solid without selling anything I collected. Wow. So then I branched off and just started doing it myself. Okay. Okay, started selling. So you're doing a lot of it online then. No, I branched off and just started doing it myself. Okay. Okay, started selling. So you're doing a lot of it online then.

No, I don't do anything online. Oh, you don't do anything online. Not yet. You built a physical location that people come to to trade. It's inside of an antique shop, and I'm all the way in the back, and I've got like 20,000 comics in the very back of it, and I run it out of an antique shop. Oh, wow. That's amazing.

So then my overhead's low, and then I don't have all the bills. Wow. So what is the most expensive comic book you've ever sold? I mean, I've probably sold seven $8,000 comics, but there's some worth a lot more. Oh, I know they're out there. I'm just saying, out of your collection, you sold one for seven or eight grand. What would be something that would go for that? It was a Star Wars number one, 35-cent cover.

Okay. I sold that years ago. Oh, my gosh. That's astounding. That's fun. That is very fun. We turn this hobbyist's passion into money. There it is.

There it is. That's how you do it. Just like a Ken Coleman thing or something. You've said it a few times. Yeah. Do work you love. Oh, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

And so is it just you still? Just employing yourself? Well, the antique shop manages the stuff when I'm not there. Okay. So it gives me the opportunity to go hunt down comics and have a good time. Good for you. Yeah. Okay.

Fun. Way to go, guys. What's this house worth? About $230,000. That's good. Yeah. That's very good. And how'd you guys get roped in with us?

I was listening for years, and she mentioned it one day. Hey, Dave Ramsey. And then she got on board, and I just followed her down the... I was like, okay, let's do this. Game on. Game on. All right. Just like that.

Let's knock this last $71,000 out. Yep. Three years later, ding, ding, house is paid for just in time for the print shop to close. Yes. Odd timing, though. Yes. Interesting. time for the print shop to close. Yes. Odd timing. Yes. Yeah, that's interesting. Wow.

Good job, you guys. What advice do you have to somebody who wants to do this? They want to get out of debt. What should they do? Oh, just, like, keep your eye on the prize, the end goal. I mean, it just feels amazing to go to sleep at night, lay your head down, and, you know, you don't have to worry about anything. It's just that end goal.

And just be honest with yourself and your partner. And this is something that's worth doing and just pushing through. And the sacrifice is so worth it. I mean, if you really think about it, it's just a small amount of time that you're sacrificing and you've got the rest of your life to just live like no one else. Yeah, that's good. Pay a price to win. Live like no one else. Later you can live and give like no one else. That's so fun. Very cool. So are you still actively adding to the inventory? You said you're still hunting.

Oh yeah. We've been all over Nashville. No, you've been all over Nashville. We've been all over Nashville hunting inventory, so we're having a fun time. Yeah. That's cool. Where do you find your best stuff? It depends. I mean, estates.

I usually buy full collections, so I mean, I typically go that route. That's a good, yeah, that way. That sounds like you're right. Fun, fun. And you brought your daughter with you? Yep, yep. All right. How old is she?

She is 18. All right. Way to go. And an 18-year-old is named? Casey. Casey. Welcome, Casey. Good to have you.

Very, very cool. All right. We've got a copy of the Legacy Journey for you because you've changed your whole legacy. Way to go. That's very fun. And an extra copy of the total money makeover for you to give away to someone inspire them to do what you guys have done uh it's worth it isn't it yes how's it feel to not have a payment in the world oh just yeah just breathe easy i'm telling you

yes i love it all right todd jamie and casey Wayne, Indiana, 71,000 paid off in three years, making 100 a year. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free! I love it. That is how it's done, ladies and gentlemen. That is how it's done, ladies and gentlemen.

That's how it's done. You know, sometimes when we talk to people that want to open a business doing something that they're passionate about, the biggest obstacle they have is they refuse to start small. We've got a sign up over here over the top of a trunk of a car that says don't despise small beginnings so true and you know he put this in the back of an antique shop so when he's gone somebody's managing the sales probably for very little is just an arrangement with the landlord there and he's sub leasing and got almost no overhead. Yeah. And so almost everything he makes comes home. Brilliant way to start to turn your hobby into a very lucrative business as a first step.

That's exactly right. And here's the key. Something you love. So he's willing to swallow his pride and go to the antique shop owner and say, hey, can I come in the back? I just need X amount of space. When you care deeply about something, Dave, you'll swallow your pride. You'll work those extra hours. This was a side hustle to get out of debt, but now it's become his full-time gig.

That's the key. When we talk about passion, you've got to love it. And you're willing to suffer. You're willing to swallow the pride. You're willing to hustle. Drive all over Nashville to look for inventory. You know, he's chuckling right now. Listen, that's what you do because you go, I desperately want this to work.

I'd rather do that than work for some jerk that just shuts the plant down and I've lost my job. That's it. So I'll work harder. I'll work smarter. See, passion gives you the fuel for that. Yeah. The fire to stay with it long enough to figure that out.

But it's almost like you're, to start, you're playing around the fringes. You don't have to walk right out in the middle of the ring with the spotlight on you. No, no. You just play around the edges. Yes. Take the edges. There's lots of money in the edges. Yeah.

Just go ahead and make you a living in the edges. Yeah. You don't have to start in the spotlight. Maybe the most amazing miracle on the planet is watching a human being learn how to walk. And they always crawl. And they stagger a little bit. Then they start walking with some pace. And then they run.

Yeah. Not the other way around. Yeah, we got a toddler running around right now. Oh, my gosh. Once they take off, they go. That's it. Oh, my gosh. This is the Ramsey personality, is my co-host today.

Earl is in Kansas City. Hey, Earl, how are you? I'm doing well, thank you very much. My situation is very simply this. I'm a minister. I've been in a nonprofit ministry now for eight years. And for the last seven years, I've been running a program to help men get off their feet. If they have mental disorders, we help them get med compliant to go on with their life.

If they have addictions, we help them get clean. I teach about 20 different classes. After my program, which is six weeks, they go on to a nine-month-long program that really helped them get stable. The reason why I'm calling is about six months ago, they hired a new chief operating officer to run ministries. And she's coming in and making so many changes that I'm really sort of going to be on the sideline now. And that's okay. If it makes the ministry better, I'm all for that 100%. However, a week ago, I sent an email and I said, hey, can you tell me exactly what my job's going to be? Because I'm not certain. In writing, can you tell me what I'm going to be doing? They have not responded yet.

And I'm just feeling, you know, I've ministered to over a thousand men in this time. And I've built this ministry so much. And now the person's coming in. And I'm not mad at them. I don't have sour grapes. I just, I want to be used as God. I have so many talents that aren't being used right now. I've thought about doing something else.

I just don't know what to do and still remain in God's will and still be a servant of the Lord to use the gifts that I have. Well, Earl, first of all, let's acknowledge the fact that you may not have sour grapes and you may not be mad, but you're hurt, and you need to acknowledge that, and that just is a painful situation. While I don't know the details, as it sounds like you do either, the fact that you emailed, I think that's a great step. Hey, what does a win look like for me?

That's essentially what you asked in a very clear email, and there's been no response in over a week. So that's not healthy. And even in ministries, there's poor leadership. Poor leadership exists everywhere because we live in an imperfect world. But I want to address the big thing that you're feeling is that you don't know what to do to remain in the call. And that's just simply not true. You don't know the details yet. And because you haven't even decided, hey, am I supposed to leave? I think probably that's coming in your future. I think you need to be exploring that.

But you're going to continue to do the same type of work, whether specifically exactly like what you've been doing. Don't overthink that. But the fact is, until you feel a release from ministry, you're still supposed to be in ministry. And there's so many ways that you can do that, whether that be in a nonprofit or a parachurch ministry like you've been in or in the church itself. But I don't want you to be so discouraged that, hey, I've poured so much of myself into this ministry the last seven, eight years. I don't know what I'll do next. You don't know the details, but you do know you're still going to serve people.

Do you understand what I'm saying? And you do know you're going to do something similar to what you used to do that was where you were in a zone, man. That's exactly right. Yeah, well, I can't. It may not be there, but none of what you've done in the past is lost. That's right. Oh, no question.

I'm not talking about the people you served. I'm talking about it's not lost in that it became experience in your brain. You're better at what you do now than you were 10 years ago. Agreed? Oh, yes. I appreciate that. If I go for a week without preaching or teaching, I'm like, I can't wait. Okay, so Earl, right there.

Right there's the answer. You need to be preaching and teaching. Don't make it any more complicated than that. So now it's not what I'm doing. It's where I'm going to do it. Hey, God, it feels like this door is closing. So open up a door. Show me.

I mean, you know this, man. The Bible says without faith it is what? Impossible to please. Yeah, so at this moment, you're hurting, and I understand that. I would maybe ask for one more clarification. If I get another delay of three or four days, brother, hurting, and I understand that. I would maybe ask for one more clarification. If I get another delay of three or four days, brother, I wouldn't read into that. That is a sign, and it's time to move on, and I'd be looking. But you know exactly what you need to be doing.

It's now where can I preach? Where can I teach? Where can I pour into men the least of these? And that's what you've been doing. So you're in the Kansas City, Missouri area. There's a lot of ministries, whether it be, again, in the local church or the parach of these, and that's what you've been doing. So you're in the Kansas City, Missouri area. There's a lot of ministries, whether it be, again, in the local church or the parachurch ministry, even outside of Kansas City. This is a function of you saying,

God, I understand this door's closing. I'm going to continue to do the same type of thing, but now in a different place. Earl? Yes. Does that work? I thought you lost the air. Does that work? I thought you cut me off. That's fantastic. That's going to work. I also have, I'm a gifted writer.

I'm a gifted musician. I've got so much to offer. The answer is, so you need to change your narrative. It's not that you don't know what you're going to do. You don't know where you're going to do it. That's just part of this deal. Yeah. Good job, Earl.

You got this. That stinks, Dave, because, you know, there's poor leadership in ministry as well. It's just bad. Because, listen, if they don't have a seat for him because of the changes, it is unkind to be unclear. Ignore the guy for a week. He's a gentle, serving, kind guy, and all you've got to do is look at him and tell him the truth. That's the only kind thing you can do.

Whatever the truth is. We've got a big deal we're cooking up for you over here, or we've got a big deal we're cooking you out of here. Whatever it is, tell him. That's all you've got to do. It's cowardice 100 couldn't add leadership cowardice they're gonna ignore this guy's email for a week because they don't know how to tell him that maybe he's not in the big picture anymore and it kills a guy like that man then when i first started leading, bossing people, in the name of being nice, I wouldn't tell people the truth. I know that's hard to imagine.

But I would just beat around the bush, or I would just delay. I don't want to have a hard conversation with somebody. And I thought that was being nice, and I finally realized to be unclear is to be unkind. One of the greatest leadership lessons you can ever learn, that little phrase right there. To be unclear is to be unkind. It requires courage and strength to be kind and look at someone and say, you've served this place a long time, a thousand men. We're taking a left turn here, a right turn here,

and we don't have a seat for you when the music stops. And we want to honor you and honor the work that you've done and help you on to your next thing. And that should have been the response five minutes after that email was sent because this ministry that this lady's running is not that big no he's down the hall oh she walked past him seven times oh yeah it's just cowardice just cowardice yep that's right jessica is uh a questionable whether we're going to get to you or not. Go real fast, Jessica. Hi, I live in Tallahassee, and I bought a house a couple of years ago, and I'm buying it from the owner, so I don't have a mortgage or anything as far as, like, interest involved.

But I need to put a roof on my house, and I'm just starting on baby step one, and I'm trying to find out, like, should i continue with my baby step one and just continue to build the it up until i have enough yeah you need a thousand dollars before you need a roof is the roof leaking okay it does i mean i have tarps on it but it's like after about three or four months and the sun bleaches the tarps out and i have to replace them again and that's like 250 350 what's it take to what's it take to put a roof on the house um i've been quoted five grand and they want to help me out because i'm a single mom um so i'm really hoping to go with that company but that quote was pre it was 2019 when i got it yeah you need to get some more quotes. This house is not that big. No, it's not very big at all.

Yeah. What do you make, honey? I usually, less than 30, 28. Yeah. Five grand's a lot of money in your world. Yeah. Are you in a good church? If you're not in a good church,

get in one or find a local pastor and tell him your story and ask him if there's some guys in the church that can help you out. Yes. This is an opportunity for somebody to help, and you need some help right now. Now, blue tarps ain't cutting it. I don't blame you. I'm sorry.

That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. This is James Child, producer of The Ramsey Show. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Subscribe or follow today wherever you listen to podcasts.