The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Sell My Car? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 24, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. It is a free call, and some say the advice is worth exactly what you pay for it. The number is 888-825-5225. Wes is with us. Wes is in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi, Wes. How are you? Good.

How are you? Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? Honored to speak with you both. You too, sir. Hey, I'm not ready to begin investing yet, but when that time comes, I want to get past a moral hang-up with earning interest that I have had for a while based on some of the things I read in the Bible. And if I can't move away from that persuasion,

I just want to know what direction I should take to invest for the future. I got you. Okay. So the only segments of Scripture that talk about not loaning for, not gaining interest are in the Old Testament, correct? It's Levitical law. It's Levitical law. Are you Jewish or are you Christian? No, I'm just a Protestant Christian. Okay. Okay but I'm mainly looking at Psalm 15, verse 5. Yeah.

He that putteth not out his money to usury nor taketh reward against the innocent, he that doeth these things shall never be moved. Yep. Okay, so that's Old Testament, okay? And there's a bunch of Levitical law that says the same thing. If you go through Leviticus, you can find passages just to help you uh or hurt you or whatever further deal and so uh most evangelical protestant christians uh are of the doctrinal stance that we do not follow old testament dietary laws meaning i eat shrimp, I eat lobster,

and it's expressly forbidden in Levitical law. Okay? And I charge interest if I were to loan money. I don't loan money, but if I did, I would charge interest. And I would pay interest or gain on an investment without any fault at all because I'm under the New Testament, under Christ, and I don't follow Levitical law on anything, and I don't follow. And that psalm is referring to that.

That's part of the answer, and that's really the big answer. There's another substrata, if you really want to get into the Bible study carefully on it. Usury is not technically a biblical term. It's technically an Old English term, and it comes from, what you're reading there is the King James Version, agreed? Yes, that's right. I just read that in case there was a copyright. That's okay, but 1600s was when that was translated, and it was translated in Old English.

And so there's a lot of cool Old English words in the Bible, the King James Version of the Bible. And so if you go under that and you read the Hebrew, what usury means in the Hebrew is not to charge interest. It's to charge excessive interest. And so we have, for instance, in Tennessee, we have usury laws to keep people from charging excessive interest. And when people are, for instance, going to pass legislation in a state to stop payday lenders who are 6 and 800 percent interest. They usually fall under some kind of a usury law or an exemption from a usury. So usury in

modern terms is not interest, it is excessive interest. So that's a substrata of the study on this, but the overarching strata is i eat lobster i don't i'm not bound to the dietary laws of the old testament and i'm not bound to the uh i don't have to stone an adulterer i'm not bound to the the levitical law and uh and because of christ because in the new testament those things are fulfilled in Christ. And so I'm walking in a liberty, a freedom, and that's a doctrinal stance. And that's the belief of most evangelicals or Protestant Christians. For that matter, Catholics would fall into that category as well.

The only time you might run into this would be certain segments of Judaism where they're Old Testament only. And for instance, I've got a friend who's an Orthodox Jew who is a great friend of mine, and Dr. Rabbi Daniel Lappin, and he stays, he eats kosher. He stays exactly kosher because he's Orthodox Jew. And that's so he's maintaining that dietary law. And it's beyond shellfish, believe me. But it's fun.

It's cool. But that's a good discussion. So you're going to be fine biblically. And as far as, you know, most teachers would tell you that. I mean, you may find some sect of Christianity somewhere that would tell you you can't. But I've been studying this for 30 years through the lens of Scripture, and I can't find anybody that's credible out there that says it's biblically wrong to charge interest. Excessive interest, yes.

Take advantage of the poor, yes. Take advantage of a widow, yes. Kick people when they're down, yes. You know, all of that and so that's where like your payday lenders get in a biblical squeeze not much less a moral squeeze but it's a great question it's good discussion and i'll tell you who else is um who cannot receive interest under any circumstances they cannot receive interest is a a law-keeping mus. The Koran expressly forbids it, and you have to avoid it, period. And so they can do things where you get gain or something goes up in value if you're in

the Muslim tradition and you're following the Koran to the letter, but you cannot open a high-yield savings account at the bank. Nope, not a chance. Can't do it. And so it's interesting to study these things. I guess religions is the right way of saying it. It's not a tradition. It's a religion.

And what their book says, you know. That's fascinating. Yeah, I'll have to think on that. I had a couple of guys that were devout Muslims that came through some of our coaching and training because they wanted to take the Ramsey Christian biblical concepts to the Muslim world. And so we had this wonderful discussion of what lined up with the Koran and what doesn't. The Koran hates debt, by the way. All ancient traditions hate debt.

Yeah, that's true. That's true. Mortgage is French for death pledge. Wow. Yeah, that's actually where that word comes from. So the etymology is just something else. Yeah, it's very interesting. Very interesting.

Yeah, I got asked in a deposition if I eat shrimp by a lawyer, trying to prove that I wasn't a real Christian. Oh, gotcha. Yeah, yeah. And it's like, yeah, honey, you don't understand how this works. But, yeah, so you get to have a doctrinal lesson right here in the middle of a deposition. There we go.

So, anyway, all right, Brianna is with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Brianna. How are you? Hi, I'm doing good. How are you? Better than I'm doing good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? You know what?

I goofed. I didn't look down at my clock. That music playing says that a guy that's been doing radio 30 years shouldn't have picked up your call because he's stupid. But I'll be right back to you after I go make a little money. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Brianna is with us in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Brianna. What's up? Hi. So I'm 20 right now. And last year when I turned 19, my dad gave me $10,000 to go buy a car with.

And I went to the dealership and instead of buying a $10,000 car, I decided that I actually wanted a shiny $30,000 car. So I financed $20,000 and used that $10,000 as a down payment. The car payments and everything were fine at the time because I was working full-time. But now that I'm back in school and I can only work part-time, these car payments are eating me alive. Half of my income every month goes to this car between insurance payment and gas. And I just can't do anything else. Like I can't live. So I'm like, I'm not sure what to do with this car now. Sell it? So that's the thing. So I went to go sell it and like look into it.

And they told me that the car was like only worth i think like twelve thousand dollars or something and i still owe seventeen thousand on it so i will that's what they that's what a dealer would give you for it okay so your dad um you you refuse to accept guidance from him or he just didn't give you any guidance he just he didn't really give me any guidance? He just, he didn't really give me any. He kind of just was like, here's $10,000, go buy yourself a car. And I went with my brother who's like only two years older than me. And he was supposed to be Mr. Finance guy and like, tell me what to do and help me with it. Um, that was the whole point of him going with me.

And you know, that's how I ended up in a car loan okay car dealers buy cars at wholesale and they resell them at a profit at retail you know the difference you understand the difference in that um yeah okay so if your car is worth twelve thousand dollars to a dealer it's probably worth seventeen17,000. Okay. But you've only owned it one year, and you paid $30,000 for it? Yeah. That's a little weird, too. Well, so, yeah. So I financed $20,000 because I used the $10,000 as a down payment.

I know. And I've only had it for one year. But you paid $30,000 for the car, and you think it has gone down $15,000 or so, $13,000 or whatever. I'm saying it might be worth $17,000 in one year? Yeah, that's what they're telling me. And when I did a Kelley Blue Book thing, too, it essentially spat me out the same price. And I'm confused as to how that could be too like okay a private sale or trade-in value on kelly blue book um i clicked i think i just clicked sell i didn't yeah i think

you click sell it and they gave you a wholesale because that's you going over to uh carvana or you're going over to car max or just the dealer, and they'll always buy a car from anyone because it's what they do. They buy them at auction. They buy them for the purpose of reselling and making a profit. So your goal is not to be inventory for them. Your goal is to sell the car at retail on something like Trader.com or Craigslist or whatever. Either you dramatically overpaid for this car when you bought it at 30,000

or it's the worst piece of crap on the planet or it uh or the information we're getting so far is wrong yeah because a car that goes in half in one year is highly unusual they suck but they don't usually suck that bad. Yeah, that's what I've been told. I mean, there is like a decent amount of miles that I put on it because I had to drive a lot for work. What's a decent amount of miles? Maybe like 10,000 miles. That's not a decent.

That's not big miles. That did not devalue the car in half. Okay. Normal usage is 12,000 to 15, 15 000 miles a year anything above that might start devaluing it but somewhere in there is normal usage was it did you buy it new no it was used what is it it's a cadillac which one uh xt5 that car did not go in half in one year. Okay. So either you overpaid for it or you've got bad information. You put the wrong year in, maybe, something like that.

Yeah. So I want you to keep poking around on this. And your older brother's not your source of information. He's not wise. We've already discovered that. And so I need you to get somebody, your dad or somebody in your life, to help walk with you on this. Anytime I'm in an area that I don't know anything about,

I try to bring someone along beside me to help me do it the first time. Yeah. You tried that with your older brother, but I'm saying here you need to get somebody that actually can help you look at this value. Go to kbb.com, look at private sale, look on trader.com, and you can look at a couple other sites you can poke around on and talk about selling a car individual to individual used. And that's what you're going to need to do and get it sold.

And then you may be walking or you may be getting a thousand or two thousand dollar car save up what what are you making and who's paying for school so my dad is completely like funding my school um so i don't have any like student loans or anything um so why don't you talk to him about this too and just say hey i made a huge mistake when I bought this. Can you help me figure out how to get out of this thing? Yeah, go in there and say, you know, admit the error. I don't know what Cheryl's relationship is on this. But, yeah, I wish he had gone with you rather than your brother and you'd walked out with a $10,000 paid-for car.

You'd have been in a lot better lot better shape obviously you know that already but um yeah that's um something's rotten in denmark here that that didn't go down that much so anyway check it out that yet you do the answer question is you do need to get rid of the car and you shouldn't have bought it in the first place and you already know that so cool not shaming you just walking with you all right so um you coached this age person the whole time you were dean of students in the in higher education in different universities around um i raised three that went through college and through that age group um and i got criticism from my uh from from a few of our friends that uh dave and sharon were too controlling of their college age students college age kids my kids never really pushed back and we really weren't that controlling

but we did not just turn them loose in the wild i'm paying for your college so your life is going to reflect my value system otherwise i'm not paying for it and that includes making decisions like this there's no way i would have but but know, I would have gone with one of them, and they would have picked out their own car, but it would have been within the $10,000 budget, and we wouldn't have gone down this, all that kind of stuff. But what I find a lot of parents doing

is just taking their hand off the wheel. Okay, you're 18. You physically look like you're grown, and just turn them loose. And they get, I mean, poor Brianna, she got filleted by a car dealer she got she got and her older brother stupid i mean young and dumb and you know so she didn't do anything wrong she's not a bad person at all she just didn't know and some they

saw her coming she got fleeced right and so i think parents ought to stay involved they should absolutely stay involved they should absolutely stay involved and it's funny when you separate the parent part we all of us as a society have agreed you got to be 21 to buy beer or you know guns or what like bullets whatever but when it comes to your kid it's like hey they're 18 man i'm finally done i'm tired like i go get them here's 10,000 bucks get a car i'll cover your tuition go make good choices and man those critical those you're not done those are critical times you're not done parenting no no you should be done controlling that's right but you should be done controlling by the time

they're 16 i'm gonna start walking next to you with you yeah i'm walking beside you and uh you know they're there but there's still a rope attached here absolutely it's just a long one you've got a lot of latitude as long as you your life reflects that latitude but um this idea that you're just go do whatever the crap you want all of a sudden yes that's bad parenting boys and girls i'm sorry if y'all think i'm a dinosaur that's fine or just just look at this a good kid t-rex that's a good dad but you at this. A good kid. A T-Rex, that's what I am. A good dad. But you hand a kid $10,000, and the chances they're going to make a good choice with that money. It's tough, man.

I'm not saying you're a bad person. Just a dumb parenting decision. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Dima and Rhonda are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Hey Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. Where do you two live? We live in Durham, North Carolina.

Oh, I love Durham. Great town. Welcome to Nashville. And good to have you guys. How much debt have you two paid off? We paid off $266,192. Woo! How long did this take? Oh, my God. Four years and eight months. Golly.

All right. And your range of income during that time? Our starting salary was $138,000, and our ending salary was $284,500. Look at you two. What do you do for a living? Oh, well, I'm actually in compensation. I work for a medical tech company. So I'm a compensation in the compensation role. Okay. I don't even know what that means. That must pay really well. Hey, I think that's why I get paid the big bucks. For real. role okay I don't even know what that means I'm a licensed clinical mental

health counselor I'm also a professor as well very good good for you guys that's awesome guys thank you there you go so what kind of debt was the 266 yeah so it was a car loan credit card and Dimas grad school and student loans I'm telling you right now absolutely student loans yes so my um my um student loans were 150,000 and Rhonda's were 100,000 yeah that's um undergraduate graduate and doctorate and yeah and so for me I went out of state, Dave, and a private institution. And then I went on and got a master's after that. Why not? So talk about like piling it on.

Yeah, piling it on. Okay, so how long have you two been married? Oh, this year we're celebrating 10 years. So halfway through, five years ago, something happened. What happened? What set you off on this? He decided to go get that last degree. And we were already, like, if you want to think about it, we were like 800 and something

in student loans, just me, with DEMA student loans being in forbearance. And we're like, what are we going to do when your loans come out and we have to start paying? Like, mind you, we had just had a little one in 2017 and Dima started school. And we're like, we cannot take on my loans, daycare. And then when Dima gets like his student loans, we were scared. Like, what's that going to look like? Yeah.

It just kept stacking up till it got scary. Yeah, it got really scary. Then what happened? What'd you do? I mean, we're graduates of the Financial Police Institute University. So I think we were just kind of taking it baby steps, baby steps. But when we realized what we're going to be under with all the students, we were just

like, we've got to use the principles and really get serious and intentional. Time to get hardcore. Yeah, absolutely. All right. So you lean in. Yeah. And what was the first thing you did and what was the radical stuff you did? Oh, we started doing the monthly, monthly meetings talking about our finances.

Hard conversations. Hard conversations. I mean, credit cards, of course, we put them in a jar in the kitchen and we're like paying with cash. And if it wasn't on our monthly, you know, things that we had talked about, then we weren't doing it. What would you say? Who's the spender? I was hoping you would things that we had talked about then we weren't doing it um what would you say who's the spender i was hoping you would oh my god dave well your shoes are shot from here your watch is blinding me let me say this he um for his birthday he um was like oh let's go let's get this car let's let's test drive it on his birthday we ended up walking away with a car so i would say dave after we got intentional that car we sold it and we were upside down so we're like but we can't

and we made sure that anything else we had we were paying cash for as far as cars and that was really the testament that he was able to say hey i love the car but i want us to get us out of debt and sold a car being debt debt free was more more important absolutely y'all have made an incredible combined salary together both of y'all are rolling up to places where people are seeing y'all drive up and y'all ain't driving quarter million dollar cars no i you know we still own i have a 2010 2010 Mazda. Yeah. Runs great. It runs great. Going to your mysterious compensation job.

Yes, yes, absolutely. You know, we're like, hey, we can't get rid of this. Like, you know, we think about gas prices and things like that, but it's making us more intentional and saying, like, now that we've paid off debt, what else can we do? Definitely humbling ourselves and having faith in the process was a struggle but you know i'd definitely say be persistent and resilient absolutely because you know what dave like we're all taught to like pay off debt but then it's like what do you do after you pay off debt and so we're loving these conversations because we're just been so used to paying off our student loans and paying off four years i mean that's a habit pattern right there right right four years

of doing nothing yeah basically but you know what one of our happy experiences when we challenged ourselves to say what are we going to do and i remember our birthday we had a hundred dollars and said we're going to do with that we went and we did a day trip to the beach and that's been the most memorable trip and it's like we packed sandwiches sandwiches. Everything was free. And we're like, wow. And I'm like, I'm still talking about that birthday. So it's like, be humble and you'll be surprised. I think even Dima made me a birthday cake. Whoa.

It was boxed, but you know. You know, it was good and it was humbling to us. There you go. And Dima, can I tell you, being a professor, being a mental health practitioner, I've always wondered um if you want to do this this scientific study um i'll put it on the air for you i always wondered if you're somebody in the helping profession if you're a professor how much do you have to curb what the research says how much you have to curb what you actually believe is the right thing to say

because you're not really supposed to say that and i owe somebody money yeah and now the students that you're going to be teaching they're going to get an unfiltered you because nobody nobody you don't you know nobody's telling you what to do anymore no knife over you and you're going to be able to sit there and tell these these clients of yours here's the truth because i don't know anybody anything man i can i can speak from here now does that make sense yeah absolutely and i think that was one of the motivators in wanting to be debt free just the freedom if you will like like you mentioned dr john like that freedom that you have um to kind of um you you have that discretionary income if you will um it's we're

still working through the baby steps but you have more freedom and there's no there's no one um there's no loans or things of that nature that you have to pay awesome yeah yeah i'm proud of you guys well done we're proud of you excellent way to go heroes thank you how does it feel oh i mean dr john you said it it just to not owe anybody anything like we're like what can we do now it's it's really challenging us to say what do we want to do with our careers and like how do we give back it's like it's making you just want to just pour out all of that knowledge and and so we're just like just ready and fired up about it it's refreshing like our budget meetings are it's a different it's a different vibe. Oh, yeah. You can just smile at me. And we can't thank you two. Thank you to the whole Ramsey crew.

Yeah, thank you all. Way to go, y'all. We're proud of you. Thank you. This is one of the rare couples that they both married well. Y'all both did all right. Thank you. We won out in our marriages, but y'all both did real well.

That's awesome. Thank you. Appreciate it. That's great. Thank you. Appreciate it. That's great. Very well done, you two. Very well done. All right. It's Dima and Rhonda from Durham, North Carolina.

$266,000 paid off in four years and eight months, making $138,000 to $284,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream three two one i love it well done very well done. Yeah, I guess the number of things you can do when you have that liberty is changed dramatically. But particularly, I never thought of it in a university setting. That's very interesting that you don't have this 266 breathing down your neck. So you can just kind of go, here's the truth. Well, and you sit at the table and this is how we're going to teach this

or this is how we're saying this or if you have this belief, you're stupid. And if you owe a whole bunch of money, you kind of got to put your head down and go on to the next thing. Got to bite your tongue. And so now, Dima's been unleashed. It's going to be fun to see it happen, man. Way to go, heroes. This is The ramsey show

our scripture of the day james 1 4 let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete not lacking anything henry ford said obstacles are those things you see when you take your eyes off the goal. That would be true. Very cool. Hey, folks, the best way to make the most of your money is by telling it what to do. Money is a good slave. It is a horrible master. You don't want to work for it.

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Really fun. So keep a pulse on your spending. Follow your progress through the baby steps. Be in control. Be on the same page with your spouse. Every of this download every dollar for free in the app store or google play today oak is with us oak is uh in charlotte north carolina hi oak what's up hi can you hear me absolutely how can we help two years ago 2022 um i kind of jumped the gun a little too early getting a house.

I saw how fast prices were rising, and I got a little scared that they weren't going to stagnate. And I bought a four-bedroom house with the intention of doing house hacking, which has been going pretty well so far. I have no complaints. It's been pretty simple. So you filled it with roommates? Yes. Okay.

But my issue now is I'm having regrets because had I stayed with my parents an extra two years, I could have put down double, maybe 50% on a one-bedroom, two-bedroom house and worked on aggressively paying that off instead of having a large house that is reliant on tenants. I was wondering, do you think it would be best to continue as I'm doing now or just cut my losses, sell it, and try it? Why is there a loss?

It should have gone up in value in Charlotte, North Carolina. Yes, yes. I cut my losses. It was incorrect. You mean emotionally cut your losses? Yes. Okay. But financially, you would sell the house and make money, would you not?

I would, yes. So what's the house worth today? About $5,000, $20,000. Okay. What do you make? $100,000 a year. What do you make? $100,000 a year. How old are you? 26.

Okay. And what do you owe on it? $370,000. Okay. Okay. So you would make $100,000 or more net of the sale if you sold it, right? Yes. Kind of sounds like 50% down on a one or a two bedroom.

Okay, so what I meant is should I sell now and get a new mortgage on a smaller property or stay here and keep saving up to try and pay cash for my next house i don't care does it matter either one will get you there all right as long as you're not having trouble with roommates and you're not having trouble collecting rent and that kind of stuff i i'm with you i would not have signed up for the trip you've taken, but now that you're in that vehicle, I don't know that I'm going to force it to jump ship unless you just hate it. Do you hate it?

Gotcha. No, I don't hate it. Okay. It sounds like you're real pissed off at a couple of years ago, Oak. Less pissed off and more I realized I made a rushed decision. Okay. I would say instead of walking around regretting it, just you're 26, man. You're not even in the same ballpark with stupid money decisions

that I've made over the years. You've got a long way to go, man. If that's your last one that you made at 26, you're not even in the same ballpark with stupid money decisions that I've made over the years. You've got a long way to go, man. If that's your last one that you made at 26, you win. And so I would say you learned something at 25 or 24 years old. Good on you. And it's made you a hundred grand. I wish I had more of those errors in my life that made me a hundred thousand dollars. so stop regretting it man it just is a different choice you you know in the future i'm going to make a different decision and you sound like a smart guy i just don't want you beating up my friend oak anymore oak are you uh are you making enough on the rental of the bedrooms to pay the current payment without

you putting in any money no i'm 300 less than the mortgage okay so you have 300 out of pocket and so if you sold this and put 100 down on a 250 uh you'd be out of pocket more to live there right but you'd have no roommates yes no risk and no hassle yeah yes all right um how what are you making again you said you make 100 yep you know how quick can you you don't have any house uh cost much how quick can you save another hundred um i'm not sure uh i've kind of taken life a little too casually and i realized i kind of have a spending problem a shopping addiction so it depends on how quickly I can get that down. Well, I agree with that.

I've kind of been using the income from tenants to supplement my lifestyle kind of. Oh, so instead of paying down the mortgage, you're taking what house payment you don't have and you're just blowing it on nonsense no not all of it just kind of offsetting it a little bit okay you're 26 you did you learn a lesson yeah okay let's be done with that and again congratulations yeah i'll just lay down lay down what you want to do and say i need i need 100k to go with 100k from the house that's 200 and um how quick can i do that making 100 uh sounds to me like a year and a half to two years if you're very careful yeah and if you have a true uh addiction if you're over your head and they just spending yeah but if you call somebody but i think you're just spending it i think you're having fun as a

25 year old like most of us did casual that's what he said like casual he's just casual you know it's time to get what you need is a goal that lifts you and causes you to be a better version of you that's right and so something to aim at and if this house move is something to aim at you say okay i'm going to do this for two more years and 18 more months, and I'm going to save $125,000. And so I need to save X number of dollars a month. And until I've done that, I'm not having any fun. And until I've done that, there's not going to be anything casual about me. I'm going to go after it.

And that's, you know, you've got to lay yourself into a plan, and then that will keep you moving in the right direction. Jada is with us. Jada is in Virginia Beach. Hi, Jada. How are you? I'm good. How are you?

Better than we deserve. What's up? Good. I was just calling just, I guess, to get an opinion. My husband and I, we want to buy a house next year, but we are about $75,000 in debt with the car and credit card bills and whatnot. We've thought about trying to do credit booster programs, debt consolidations, selling stuff. None of that will work. We were all over.

Yeah, and I felt like we were all over the place. You are. I didn't really get into it, and so I just kind of needed to take a step back. How much do you owe on your car? My car is about $18,000. How much on the other car? $22,000. Okay.

And what's your household income? So he just started working back full-time again. So within the next couple months, we'll be at $5,100. Okay. And you work full-time again so within the next couple months we'll be at 5100 okay and you work full-time i do okay that's sixty thousand dollars a year right okay yeah your cars are insane yeah you can't breathe because of your cars. Pretty much. Yeah. So the way you get a house is magical. You sell the cars.

And then you'll suddenly have some money. Get you some cheapo $2,000 cars to drive to work, and both of you need to be working more. You're not making any money. Right. cars to drive to work and both of you need to be working more you're not making any money right so then so i've i've looked to like you know sell my car and i heard on a previous uh call you on about the kelly booba private sale but mine was worth about i think it was like 12 000 so you're gonna have to borrow the difference or you're gonna have to save up the difference but you guys don't make enough money to be driving these cars these cars are driving you so we got to make that move one way or another we got to figure out how we're going to pull this off but that's the thing more income less outgo you're not buying a house next year you're not

going to be ready by next year it's going to be the year after that and that's only if you lay into this hard that puts us out of the ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Take care.