The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Send My Kids to Private School or Move? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: March 9, 2021

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live from the headquarters of ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. My co-host today here on the air, Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author. Open phones here as we talk about your life and your money. 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Starting off this hour is going to be from Oregon. Courtney is calling. Hi, Courtney. How are you? Hi, Dave and Anthony. How's it going? Great. How can we help?

So I just turned 21, and my question is, do you think that I should focus up in tents and work to pay off my debt first or freeze my baby steps and cash flow school to find a different career path? Now, are you currently in school right now, Courtney? I'm not. I actually was accruing debt from school and I started listening to Dave and I stopped immediately. Okay. All right. Talk to us a little bit more about where you are right now. How much school do you have accomplished currently? So I only did two semesters. I have about 4,500 that I accrued from those two semesters. Okay. And I'm currently

working a full-time job, so I'm not doing any school at the moment. And what are you going to school for if you go back to school? Because, yes, you are going to cash flow it, but I want to make sure you're making the right decision by going back to school. What would you go to school for?

Well, in my dream scenario, I would love to be an entrepreneur and go to school for business or real estate or things like that, you know? Okay. All right. So going back to school to be an entrepreneur, you don't necessarily need a degree to be an entrepreneur, but I like the mindset of getting a business degree. But what do you want to do? I'm sorry.

Well, what's your dream entrepreneurship? Like, what do you want to do? I'm sorry, what's your dream entrepreneurship? Like, what do you want to own? Well, I would love to have real estate and have a business or two, or, I mean, the sky's the limit. I have really big dreams and a really small goal. Well, here's the thing for me, and I'm curious, because Dave is an entrepreneur, and I want him to talk into this, but for me, and I'm curious because Dave is an entrepreneur and I want him to talk into this. But for me, I have some concerns of you going back to school and you really don't know exactly what you're going to school for.

And so I love the fact of you cash flowing it. But my thing that I'm teaching to young people, specifically your age, is I want you to have a vision. What are you doing? Why are you doing it? So this way you can complete school. I don't want you to start going back to school again, and then you drop out again because you change your mind. Let me help you. It's hard to complete a goal as tough as the one you're signing up for when your dream is still in the clouds.

When we ask you what you want to do i'd like to own some real estate and maybe a business or two you didn't say i want to own a business that does x or y or z uh you just vaguely want to own a business there's not enough energy in that because of the lack of specific the lack of how it's not specific enough to give you energy to push through. You've got to say, I've always wanted to own a business that does this and that. And in general, you just would like to own some stuff. Yeah.

And that won't push you through when the rain comes out and the thunder and the lightning is going and you don't want to go to class. But you'll bust through the wall if you get real specific on your goal and where it is. So we always teach that dreams are a good place to start, and that's where you've started. Pull them down out of the clouds and kind of blow off the mist. Blow it off. And then when you can kind of see the structure of your dream a little bit more, it starts to become what we call a vision. Yes, sir.

And then a vision with work clothes on is called a goal. And then, you know, the very specific steps that you have to do to hit your goal, which comes from your vision, and then when someone asks, you can say, I'm living the dream. Absolutely. And then once you identify that, then you can answer the question, well, do I need to go to school for this? Is school one of the things you need to do?

Exactly. Because you're going to have a whole bunch of things you need to do to get to live out the goal that came from your vision so that you're living the dream. Yeah. But just, you know, I want you to spend some more time thinking about, you know, when you're 45 years old and you get up and you go to work, what are you doing?

Yeah. What are you doing at work? Yeah. And it could be somebody you're working for. It could be you and you go to work, what are you doing? Yeah. What are you doing at work? Yeah. And it could be somebody you're working for. It could be you own the business. Yeah. I don't care. And then you can kind of back into some of this.

But, yes, cash flow it. Yeah. And in the meantime, while you're figuring this out, you could go ahead and clean up the $4,500. I don't think it's a prerequisite. Absolutely. I mean, you could stop and not pay on it while you're in school. That's perfectly legal. Pay it off when you get out of school. But we've got a lot more going on here than just do we go to school or do we pay debt? And you know what, too? This is well, Courtney,

I want you to invest. I want you to go on Amazon. I want you to buy King Coleman's book, The Proximity Principle, because inside of that, I hear your voice a little bit of you really don't know what you're good at. You don't really know what you want to do. And he'll help you identify your sweet spot. So I want you to invest $10 into getting this book. Actually, go to the KenColemanShow.com website. Why don't you give her one? Well, no, because I want her to invest into it, Dave.

Okay. Yeah, I want her to spend $10 because I think if she can invest into it, she'll read the book and complete it. Okay. And if she does that, she'll call back. I'll give her something else. Okay. All right. I just thought you didn't want to give away Ken's stuff.

I didn't know. I mean, I would love to give away Ken's stuff. It doesn't hurt my pocket. But no, this is for her, though. Steven is with us in Missouri. Hi, Steven. How are you? Good.

How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So I'm a little bit scared at the moment. I've been watching your show for about a month or so, and I've been watching some clips of where some orthodontists who have gone through school come out with a million dollars in debt. Currently, I'm $15,000 in debt with a combined income of $30,000,

which is me and my wife. And I have a 21-month-old son, and I'm not sure how to go about saving for college because I don't want to go into debt. How old are you, Steven? 24. 24. Okay. So you're not, have you graduated from a four-year school? No, I have not yet. So I'm currently in a three-month program for dental assisting, and I graduate from that in about five weeks.

And so once I graduate from that, I'll be working as a dental assistant while I go through my undergrad years, or at least that's the plan. Yeah, yeah, okay. Well, the good news is there are a lot of large dental companies now. The mom-and-pop dentist is still around, but there's some big companies. The good news for you is there's some big companies, and getting on with one of them, they might have an education path that they pay for all the way through. And I'd be looking for that.

Even if you made a little less but they paid for your dental degree, oh, ding, ding. Yeah. That would be a big deal. Yeah. Because, honestly, it should scare you. And when you get into the business around these guys, it's going to scare you even more. I think dentists have a tendency to go further in debt than MDs. Absolutely, Dave.

Absolutely. And here's the thing, too. $400,000 or $500,000 is not unusual. No, it's not. I mean, actually, we're working on it. I can't say what we're working on, but we interview a dentist who has $9 thing, too. $400,000 or $500,000 is not unusual. No, it's not. I mean, actually, we're working on it. I can't say what we're working on, but we interview a dentist who has $980,000 in debt. In debt. You can say it.

We're working on a documentary. Yeah. Okay, cool. You the boss. All right. We're not ready to launch it yet. Right. Yeah.

It's still an edit, but it's pretty cool. Yeah. It's a follow-up to the Borrowed Future podcast series we did. Yes. The documentary version of that. And you never know where you might see that. This is The Ramsey Show. Have you ever wondered how to save more money or pay off debt faster? What about the right way to invest?

Listen, I've been there asking the same questions with no idea where to turn for answers. But here's the good news. You don't have to keep searching for answers. Ramsey Plus will guide you every step of the way so you always know what to do with money next. Ramsey Plus is our step-by-step plan that shows you how to get consistent small wins with money and even some big ones so you can see exactly how you're making progress. Then we can help you turn all those wins into better habits that last. You can be confident you're doing the right thing with money and that means no more payments, cash in the bank for emergencies, and a plan for your future. Get started today with a free trial of Ramsey Plus at DaveRamsey.com.

DaveRamsey.com. That's DaveRamsey.com. Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today here on the Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Knoxville is calling. Kenny is on the line. Hi, Kenny. How are you?

I'm doing well. How are you? Great. How can we help? Well, my question is, my wife and I are trying to decide whether we pay our house off and send our kids to private school, or we buy a more expensive house in a different area and send them to a better public school. There's no wrong answer. I mean, either one's okay, whichever one you want to do.

What Sharon and I chose to do was the second one we moved uh to a more expensive area where we live in the same neighborhood to this day or the same same community and um pulled the kids from the private school it was killing us and put them in the public schools now again the public schools that our kids went to in the county that we're in are ridiculously good. And I mean, I know Knoxville, and there's some really good schools around Knoxville and some bad ones. So, you know, how much are we talking about difference in house? Well, we paid $239 for this house we owe 140 on it um and we paid that in two two and a half years um we could have that paid for by the time they start middle school which which is when we were going to start private school the newer houses, for a decent house,

you're going to pay $400 in Farragut, if you know where that's at. Yeah, I know it well. My aunt teaches there at Farragut High School. Well, it's a really good school, but it's... Well, West Knoxville's expensive in the town.

Yeah, it just is. Right, exactly. I think your numbers aren't far off. I don't disagree with them. The good news about the house is obviously a better house and a better area is going to go up. A more expensive home is going to go up more in value. And so that is going to be an investment as well as a place to live. And, you know, the money you're spending on the private school here is, it is a type of investment, but it's not going to pay you money.

Yeah. Unless your kids give you money back later. I'm not my homeowner at the moment. Yeah, I'm not either. So I'm probably doing the other thing and just say, all right, we're going to get in there, but we're still going to still have a goal of paying it off. Now, you're not going to do it in two and a half years, but if you can pay off the one you're in in two and a half years,

you can pay off the other one in five, ten, between five and ten. Right. Okay. Anthony, what are you thinking? No, I'm right there with you dave you know i'm you know i'm probably a little differently from a lot of people but i'm a huge fan of public schools i just i just love it my mom is in the public school section so um i just i just love public school so i will go with the second one as well yeah i mean admittedly uh some of them

aren't up to par right but there are plenty of them that are yes uh and you know uh so it's exactly what we did we sold our house uh in uh the nashville area in a school system that wasn't good uh and uh had our kids rachel was in kindergarten okay at the time and denise well i think had gotten to second grade and and uh we made the move to public and truthfully never looked back absolutely it was uh it was a great experience overall my only advice is to this to kenny and and uh it's just to make sure when you do make that move just make sure you get on the street budget just just know exactly okay we're moving here so our kids go to a better school but we want to pay off a house in, like Dave said, five to ten years. What does that look like over the next five to ten years?

And just stick to that plan. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, good question, man. Interesting discussion. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Troy's in Indianapolis. Hey, Troy, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. What's up?

Hey, Dave. Thank you for taking my call today. Sure. Hey, Dave. Thank you for taking my call today. So to recap real quick, back in December, just about a year ago, is whenever I kind of discovered you or rediscovered you guys. And needless to say, I've drank the Kool-Aid. And I listen to you every day, read the book, and we're on the plan. We've started our debt-free journey, My wife and I and our three little girls. Good, yeah.

And during the COVID, I kind of lost my position and the job I had for three years while I was contemplating looking for other employment. And so I lost my position. So now I'm kind of down in pay a little bit. When I was making about 80,000

at the end of 2019, I went to making about 80,000 at the end of 2019, I went to making about 45,000. But regardless, we were able to not borrow anything. We cash flowed everything, cut up the credit cards, been making payments, and been successful in that means. Great. And two and a half months ago, I was blessed with a new job opportunity. And it's a great job, great benefits, good money. The only downfall is it's currently one hour away from our current house. So the wife and I have been talking that possibly 10 months, 12 months from now, that we might try to relocate in 2021 closer. So my question is, is that when I looked

the other day, I noticed during the pandemic and trying to make ends meet without borrowing any money that I was late on some payments with the credit card companies and stuff like that. And it's really affecting my credit score. Now I could really care less what my credit score is but i'm thinking proactively if we do decide to go shopping for a new home and i know they look at that a lot is that something i need to be worried about now yeah yeah to try to absolutely okay yeah what's the score uh when i looked two days ago i think it fell to like 580. Absolutely. Yeah. You didn't miss one or two payments. You missed a bunch. No, no, no. We were just getting by because at the same time, a year ago, I had a medical procedure,

and out of pocket, I had to pay $15,000 is what the total bill was. So we were really paying medical bills, credit card bills, a car payment, our mortgage payment, and I went from an $80,000 income to down to about $45,000, $50,000. So what's the new income? During my probationary right now, just salaried on that 65, but it's a salary that pays me time and a half when I go into overtime. So I'm fortunate on that here in about three, four more months, it'll take me up to 75. Um, and then it will just go up, uh, two, three, 4,000 every year after that. And how much debt do you have now? Uh, right now when I did my debt snowball i think it's

calculated around 85 000 yeah so you're not ready to buy in a year troy yeah he's right i just keep making the drives yeah well or sell it and rent yeah but you've got you're not going to be out of debt in a year no no no no yeah i figured that but we were lucky enough when we bought our home we got a really great price on it and when i talked to my realtor recently just i got a curiosity to see what it would go for right now today's market i'm calculating i have anywhere from 40 to 50 thousand dollars in equity in it now okay you may want to go ahead and sell now yeah go ahead and sell now and rent yep and that gets rid of the commute and those 40 grand at your 85 and then let's clean up their other debt and by the way as you're doing all

of this it's going to clean up your credit yes because as you pay all i mean you know as there's two things that'll heal that number one is obviously paying current bills on time three things number two as you start paying off the debts. And then number three, distance between the bad behavior and the day you're trying to do something. So the older the bad behavior is, the less it counts against you. It's still fairly fresh. When I looked at the report, I only had two or three months in this year on two different accounts. So I think one account I was late twice on, another one I was late once on.

But what I looked was is that five or six years ago, there's a series where I was late at one point, and now it all looks like in a total of seven years I've been late nine or ten times. And I had five years of on-time payments, and it was, I think at one point, it was $720, $730. Yeah, and that's exactly what it is. So you pay what you've got on time. Yep. You continue to reduce the debt.

I personally hate a long commute, so I would go ahead and sell now, advance the get-out-of-debt plan, and rent. And then once you're out of debt and have your emergency fund then you start talking about buying still longer than a year this is the ramsey show Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. On the Dad-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Lauren is with us. Hey, Lauren, how are you? Hey, Dave, how are you? Good to have you.

Where do you live? Denver, Colorado. Bit of a trip to Nashville to do a debt-free scream? Yes. Very cool. How much have you paid off? $55,201. Good for you. And how long did this take? 34 months. Wow. And how long did this take? 34 months. Wow.

And your range of income? Started at $50,000 and up to $74,000 and then back down a little bit. Good for you. What do you do for a living? I'm an account manager at the College for Financial Planning. Ah, well, there you go. And many side hustles. The old CFP land.

Yes. All right. Very cool. And what kind of debt was the $55,000? Mostly student loans. Had a small credit card in there, paid off a cell phone, and then cash flowed a car during that time as well. You paid off a cell phone? Yeah, I did.

Oh, yeah. You're really normal. I was leasing it. I love it. Yeah. Okay. So you work with financial planners. What happened that turned you on to getting out of debt 34 months ago?

I actually started the position about 34 months ago. And so that was what really ignited my fire. I had a friend that was cheering me on saying, you can pay off your debt. It's totally possible. I was like, I don't make enough money for that. Got a newer position, started at the college for financial planning. And that's what really kind of made me realize I'm surrounded by this all day there's no reason that I can't work hard to pay it off yeah wow how did you get connected to us um so my friend Chris Brzezinski recommended you he paid off his student loans um he gifted me the total money makeover book wow and so when I started at the college I started reading the book and it was game on from there. Okay, cool. So surely some of the people around there were cheering you on.

Oh, yes, yes. I've had nothing but support from my coworkers, my family, my friends. Everybody's been super excited for this. Yeah. Well, we're excited for you. Well done. Absolutely. Very proud of you.

So the Total Money Makeover book and the new job got it going. Got it going, and then hustling my butt off. Yeah. Had lots of jobs. So when you say hustling. Extra hustling my butt off. Yeah. Had lots of jobs. So when you say hustling. Extra jobs. Oh, yes. Yeah. How many jobs extra did you have?

Oh, gosh. Throughout the whole process, four, five different things. Catering was always a big one for me. I bartended for the Denver Broncos. Okay. I worked at a grocery store. All kinds of stuff. Yeah.

So that really accelerated it. What made you the most money for the hours spent as your extra job? Catering, for sure. Food. There's a lot of stuff. Yeah, so that really accelerated it. What made you the most money for the hours spent as your extra job? Catering, for sure. There's a lot of food. There's a lot of potential to be making a really good hourly wage, and then tips on top of that certainly help, and you're getting to go and see different places. It's an amazing side hustle.

So you were working catered events. You weren't the caterer. Both. So I don't actually cook. I'm like the bartender, the server, the front of house type person. I got you. Okay. What was the hardest thing throughout this journey?

I think the discipline is probably the hardest thing and just realizing I can do it if I set my mind to it. When I started, I was 27. I told myself I'm going to be debt free by 30, but I had no idea if that was actually achievable. It did happen. Very happy about that. But just reminding myself when I was working all the extra jobs and saying no to so many different things that it was going to pay off. So just keeping the why important. So you're 30 years old.

You're 100% debt-free. Yeah. How's that feel? It's amazing. It's been six months, and it still doesn't feel real. I'm so proud of you. I don't see a ring on your finger, too, so that's a good thing. Yeah, yeah.

Just me. No headaches. No headaches. No. Nope. You can say something like that. I can. I'll say that.

Yeah. Oh, man. Well done. Well done. Well done. Yeah. Oh, man. Well done. Well done. So what advice do you have to a 27-year-old single young lady with overwhelming student loan debt? Because it was overwhelming. It was.

It was crushing. Denver, Colorado, it was crushing. Didn't believe it could be done. What advice do you have for them? What should they do and can they do it? Say no to everything. You can have fun later. I had fun along the way, definitely, but it's

very important to just keep the mindset that you can do it. You can pay it off, work hard, be successful, and keep your nose down. There's plenty of time to still do everything that you want to do, and the budget is extremely important. I have the cash envelopes that I used the whole time. I got a lot of te you know, teases for that. And it was funny. It was funny and all of that. But it really did, once I started hitting the end, was like, okay, wow, this is actually going to happen. So just stay the course is the biggest piece of advice.

So you're a young millennial. What's next? You're debt free. You have freedom. What's next? That's a good question. Well, finishing the have freedom. What's next? That's a good question. Well, finishing the emergency fund.

That's next. That's next. That'll be next month. And then after that, I mean, I want to start saving money for a down payment on the house eventually. That's the big, you know, the big thing. Put money in an account. My car that I cash rolled, it's 2003. Any minute now, you know, I might need a new one.

So I'm just moving up in car. That's an exciting thing for me and just continuing to have the freedom to do what I want to do. Money's not holding me back. You've got margin now. Yes. Well done. Yes. So who are your biggest cheerleaders?

Gosh, it's so hard to say. There's nobody that was not a cheerleader, honestly. Wow. My family's here with me. My mom nobody that was not a cheerleader, honestly. Wow. My family's here with me. My mom, my dad, my two sisters, big supporters. My entire extended family, big supporters. They just wanted an excuse for a girl's trip to Nashville. That's all they wanted. We know about them.

It's fair. It's fair. It's fair. Yeah. Yeah. Are they debt-free, or are they on the journey as well? They're on the journey, but lots of big wins over here. There we go.

My sister's paid off a lot. My mom paid off a car early. Yeah. Everybody's working to do this because it is doable. You've inspired everybody. Yeah. I'm so proud of you. Thank you.

Very, very well done. And it's good to know in the college of financial planning that there are wise people yes i know there's a bunch of them i'm just kidding but yeah you could be leading the way over there that's fabulous so well done so well done we've got a copy of chris hogan's book for you everyday millionaires for sure that is the next chapter in your story you are well on your way young lady very well done very well done. Very well done. That's impressive. I'm really impressive. I was about to say something, but I'll talk about her on my show.

Oh. Yeah. Because I like her. She's real cool. I just want to make sure that her future husband knows he needs to be either on the journey to becoming debt-free or debt-free. That's bottom line. If he's not, he ain't a future husband. There you go, Dave. See? See? See? Yes. I didn't want to say that.

This one ain't picking on anybody else. I can just tell you. Hey, no. Good job. Well done. Good job. All right. Lauren from Denver, $55,000 paid off in 34 months, making 50 to 74.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah! I love it! Very, very well done. Over your 25 years of doing this, I'm curious to ask you a question.

As far as in, we're seeing more and more of younger and younger individuals coming here, paying off debt, paying off student loans from the Uncle Dave perspective. How does that make you feel seeing that, you know, these young people are getting the message and they're moving forward? Yeah. When I started the show, I was 32. Yeah, you was young then. Shut up, Anthony. That was not the point. Shut up, Anthony. That was not the point. Shut up, Anthony.

So my point is that I was their peer. Yes. Much like you. Yes, sir. And so I was the focus group. Yeah. It was my friends and people like my friends that I was talking to. And so we had a lot of 32, 34-year-old, not as much of what we call millennials today,

but they were, you know, Gen Xers. Yeah. You know, Blake Thompson's age. Yeah. Kind of thing, right? That were coming through just slightly behind me. Maybe I'd been married five years and they'd been married, or maybe I'd been married ten years and they've been married five or six and maybe i had kids

three years older than theirs but we both had little kids and so like you were talking to people that age group rachel's talking to people that her age group with those little kids that kind of thing or you're talking to single millennials but uh the beauty of what's ended up happening with this show is with the advent of podcasting and the advent of YouTube, we've been reaching a younger audience than traditional radio reaches. Yes. And we want to reach everybody, but it is a lot of fun taking the calls from these 24-year-olds, 30-year-olds, 28-year-olds, 27-year-olds, 26-year-olds, single or otherwise, and are doing this. Yeah. So, yeah, from a legacy perspective, Papa Dave, Grandpa Dave.

Yeah. Yeah. It's cool. Very cool. Proud of it. I mean, she's my kid's age. Yes. So, you know, that's awesome.

Very cool. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today here on the air. This is the Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jason is with us in Detroit. Hi, Jason. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave.

Thanks for taking my call. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Well, I had a question for you. I've been working with a financial advisor who's giving me some advice, and I follow the show. I'm on Baby Step 7 currently.

But he presented me with an idea that was a little outside the box, and I have term life insurance. I've been anti-whole life. But he presented me with this infinite banking concept. Jesus, you're kidding me. Yeah, I have excess money in a savings account and looking to rebalance my portfolio to get it to work a little bit harder. But my risk tolerance is a little bit low. And he showed me how you can do this where you overfund the whole life policy.

You can access the money. You break even in year seven, and then the dividend outruns what you put into it. Yeah, it's a set. It doesn't seem like a terrible idea in that regard, but I just wanted your take on is that, God, he's selling a dividend. A financial advisor? This is an insurance guy. Well, he's both. They have, you know, it's one of the bigger companies.

Yeah, like Northwestern Mutual or Prudential. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. He's an insurance guy. He's not a financial advisor. Okay. Because those are both mutual companies.

Now, there are two types of life insurance companies, mutual and stock. Okay. Likely you bought your term, unless you bought it from him, from a stock company. A stock company, stockholders own the insurance company. A mutual company, which is Prue and Northwestern State Farm is mutual, is the policyholders are actually the stockholders. Okay?

Okay. So when the company makes a profit, the policyholders receive a dividend as if they were a stockholder and received a dividend. Does that make sense? Yep.

Now, follow the math here. If you are the owner of the company and you're also the customer of the company and the only place the company gets money is from the customers that are owners and they give you money from a profit, by definition, that means it's because they took too much from you as a customer. There wouldn't have been a profit otherwise. Okay. So the IRS has deemed, consequently, that mutual life insurance company dividends

are not dividends in the true sense of a dividend, that instead they are, and this is the IRS's language, they are instead a refund of a deliberate overcharge. So they overcharge you in order to give you some money later to make you feel like you're making money off of them. And it's absolute hogwash. It's a pass-through. Mathwash. It's a pass-through. Mathematically, it's a pass-through.

It's the way it has to be. It's the legal definition of the freaking company, and the IRS says so. Yeah. The thing I didn't love is, you know, when you take the money back, you basically are paying an interest rate on it. Exactly. And whose money is this? Right.

That you're borrowing your own money money and you're paying them interest? Yep. This is infinite banking for them. Yeah. Yeah, the infinite banking concept is old school, whole life, done poorly. You need a real financial advisor, not an insurance broker that's trying to sell you a load of manure. And so, yeah. The other thing is that your cash values that are sitting there all die with you.

So whatever cash you put into this is equal zero at your death because they only pay the face value. Prue does not have a policy. Northwestern Mutual does not have a policy that pays more than the face value except Universal Life Bs, which are not in Infinite Banking products. And Universal Product B is where they charge more than they usually charge, which basically buys the insurance so they can still keep your money, is the way the math actually works on this. So you're dealing with one of the most expensive insurance products in the marketplace

if you're dealing with either one of those two companies, I would stay completely away from both of them. Everyone in the financial field except people that work for them, we all think they're a joke. All of us. Anyone who's academically trained or has any kind of CFPp or anything else when that when someone says they work for northwestern mutual we just kind of laugh and go yeah right you screw people every day so dude you need to get away from them and you need to go get a real financial advisor that can help you do some real investing that takes into consideration your low risk tolerance low risk tolerance does not need to lead you to losing your money 100% of the cash invested at death.

Yeah. That's a bad risk tolerance thing. So you need to move on, dude. You need to move on. And the whole thing of the dividends are paying for it is such a joke because the dividends are the refund of a deliberate overcharge. So who's paying for it? If you own Home Depot stock and you got dividends from that,

then Home Depot's making a profit, but they're making a profit off of their customers, and I'm the owner of the investment. I get that dividend. That's different than if I am the customer and I'm the stockholder, thereby the only way I made a profit was off of me. Myself. So I pay you an extra $100, and then you give me $70 of it, and I'm supposed toholder, thereby the only way I made a profit was off of me. Myself.

So I pay you an extra $100, and then you give me $70 of it, and I'm supposed to feel great about that. Right. So that's what this amounts to. And so you guys working with State Farm, when you get your little dividend check, that's what it is. It's a refund of a deliberate overcharge. IRS verbatim says that.

Yeah. And that's why you don't get taxed on it. If you get a dividend on Home Depot stock, you get taxed on it as income because it's real income. You really made an investment, and then you really made an income. So that's what's going on with that stuff. So do not buy anything in the life insurance world based on dividends uh you look at the price look at the structure of the policy and uh you'll usually find that mutual companies by the way are the higher priced so when you go to a quote service like a zander insurance and you get quoted on term life insurance you're going to find no mutual companies in the 42 different companies that they give you a quote from

because they're not competitive. That's it. Why? Because they charge more so they can give some of it to you back later and make you feel like that you got something. That's really what it amounts to. And that's why you won't find them. They're not competitive.

Yeah. Dave, you're fired up about this one. Man, I tell you what, pisses me off. Infinite banking my butt. Oh, okay, Dave. Infinite banking is for them yes the only listen the only thing you that that agent has for his whole life is a need for your commission to be paid to him absolutely that's the only whole life thing that is involved here uh these products are

horrendous yeah and you know it's bad enough when they feed on the middle class, but that guy's a baby step seven, man. He's probably a millionaire. Yeah. And they create such a jumbled word picture that you can't cut through the BS. And yet, you know, the thing about him, did you notice what happened with him? This is interesting. It didn't feel right to Jason. Yeah, yeah.

He felt it, didn't he? Yeah, he felt it. And that's probably because he's going through our process and he knows what we teach. Well, it's not just that. He didn't just say, well, Dave says it's wrong. Right. There's something wrong here. I just can't put my finger on it.

Yeah. Overpay and get money back. But, I mean, you ever have those feelings? I don't know exactly what's wrong, but I smell a rat. Yeah. Which means there's a dead rat in the corner somewhere. I just hadn't found him yet. Or below the couch.

Something stinks in here. Yeah. Something stinks in here. Something got in the house and died you know i got a smell in here what is it something's wrong you got you can't find it you can't put your finger on it but how many times have you been in a situation with a person or with a product a financial product you know you had one you had one you were buying an item i won't say what it was on the air but you got the smell off the people, and you ran. It was three weeks ago. What was it, Dave?

Tell me. What was it? I'm not going to, because they might be listeners, and I'm not going to do that to you. I'm going to throw you under the bus. Oh, same. You walked out of a deal into a different deal not long ago. Oh, yes, sir. I sure did.

Was it not the same thing? It was the exact same thing. The Holy Spirit inside of you said, I smell a rat. Yeah, something's not right. Something be wrong with these people. I ran. This deal is, I can't put my finger on it, but this deal is bad.

Yes. And you ended up in another deal. It was a much better deal because you listened even though you couldn't logically explain it, you could listen to your heart. Absolutely. Listen to the bell when the bell rings. It's called the Holy Spirit. This is The Ramsey advice in their life?

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