The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Stop Paying My Son's Student Loans? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 29, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey personality number one, best-selling author of the book, Net Free Degree, is my co-host.

Open phones here as we talk about your life and your money. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Mike starts off this hour in Dallas, Texas. Hey, Mike, how are you? I am doing good. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? So my question is, my wife and I just finished Baby Step 3. And so in looking into my retirement account at work, I have a 401k, and I discovered that I can either do it as pre-tax or a Roth. And so I was wanting to find out, is there a difference between a Roth 401k versus the Roth IRA, and which is the better? Should I do both or just one? That's a good question. Is there a match with your Roth 401k? Yes, my work matches 6%.

Yeah, so what we teach here is it's always going to be match, Roth, then traditional. So I'm going with your matched Roth 401k before a Roth IRA. But that's because of the match, not because of the Roth. They're both Roths, meaning they both will grow without taxes on the growth. So a Roth IRA grows exactly like a Roth 401k. Obviously, the 401k has a handful of options and the IRA has 8,000 mutual funds you can choose from. That would be your main difference. But if your 401k has good, strong mutual fund options, you certainly do the match first, what Anthony was saying.

But then beyond that, if you want to say, do I continue there in the Roth 401k unmatched portion, or do I do a personal Roth, it won't matter if you picked exactly the same mutual funds, you'd have exactly the same results. So if you've got good funds in your 401k, which most do these days, then you're fine to just use your 401k to get to your 15% in Baby Step 4. Okay. That make sense to you? Yes, yeah, and it's with one of the big firms,

and it's got some pretty good options in there for me. Yeah, it makes it real simple to not have to do the personal one. But now, what's your household income? Right around $115 a year. Okay. household income uh right around 115 a year okay so you can get to uh you can get to 15 percent of your household income within your 401k yes yeah and uh without maxing it out or anything so you don't have to do the personal and as long as you got good options i would just do that from a simplicity standpoint easy just makes it real easy you don't think about it it's autopilots coming out

your check you know life goes on. Good question. Brittany's in Connecticut. Hey, Brittany, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. It's nice to talk to you guys today. You too. How can we help?

I have a fairly general question, but with intricate details, I guess. My question, more or less, is what more can I do? Um, my husband and I are on baby step two. We actually bought a house in March and then started your program. Um, and in April he left for a six month training in Virginia. Um, so we were putting everything extra that we can towards our debts. We've paid off about $17,000 so far. Good. He door dashes and he does full-time down there, so he gets like a per diem and everything.

I work two part-time jobs adding up to about $15 an hour, and I run a very small business out of our home. And I take care of a two-year-old at home. And I just don't know what more of a two year old at home. Um, and I just don't know what more I can do to help towards it. Um, I feel like he's doing so much and he's away. Um, I get to see him once or twice a month at the time at the moment. But,

um, just any advice on what more we can do, I guess. So Brittany, how much, what's the total amount of debt? Uh, total was 25,000. We've paid about

$13,000 off so far. You've paid off $13,000 since when? Since March. End of March. Y'all are grinding. We've done everything we can. Well, at that rate, you'll be done in three months. Yeah. We're hoping. Well, no that rate, you'll be done in three months. We're hoping. Well, no, I'm talking about mathematically. It's not hoping.

Oh, yeah. Well, we had, like, anything we got back from taxes and stuff. So how much are you paying on the debt a month? About $3,000. Oh, $3,000. You're not going to be done in three months. Okay. No. More like eight months. Okay. No. Hopefully by Christmas. More like eight months.

Okay. Yeah. But if we like anything extra he makes during DoorDash or I make with my little side stuff, we try to sew towards it. So let me say this on an encouraging side, Brittany, because I hear the passion in your heart. Like, I want to help more. I want to help more.

This is what we teach here at Ramsey is be intentional, get a plan, live below your means and throw everything at it. And if you're doing those four things, which it sounds like we could dive in a little bit deeper to see what else you could do. But I really want you to hear this and even everyone listening as well, that once you're doing all those four things, the next step from there is just keep that going and be patient throughout this journey putting three thousand dollars towards this that you all are already doing great you've knocked out 13 13 or 17 whichever one uh that that you did um that that's phenomenal i mean that's phenomenal people

who make more money than you call into the show and don't knock out that much money uh within that amount of time so i want you to hear that what you and your husband are doing right now is great. But can we add some more? We can dive into some numbers and see that there. But I just wanted to start off this conversation by, hey, you're doing a great job thus far, but let's see what else we can do. Yeah. You got the hustle part.

Now the next step is the grind part. And you're feeling the grind because this is hard. Yeah, we're just trying. It's hard. We look forward to the day we can come do our debt-free screen. It's hard. But, I mean, you guys are working like animals. Yeah.

You're not spending a dime. You're completely game on. You're as gazelle intense as you can be. It's hard. What you're doing is hard. And it is a grind. That's why they call it hustle and grind right i mean it's it's it's hard so i'm with anthony i think you're doing a really really good job and

i think in seven or eight months you're going to be done so all you're looking for all the time there's no magic wand there's no magic pill you're just looking for where can i cut expenses where can i increase income where can i cut expenses where can can I increase income? Where can I cut expenses? Where can I increase income? And every time you do that by $5, one direction or the other, that $5 is going to increase the speed at which you get out of debt. And now that you've stopped the stupid, and now that you've pointed yourself at a plan, and now that you're submitted to that plan and you're wide open on that plan, you're going to get there.

You are on your way. You're going to get there. You are on your way. You're going to get there. And you're probably going to be there by Christmas of this year. You may not quite make it, but I think you might. I think you might be done by Christmas. And you'd be standing out in the front yard yelling, Merry Christmas! People would be going, that woman lost her mind.

No, she's debt-free, baby. Exactly. She's been hustling. She's been grinding. She hasn woman lost her mind. No, she's debt-free, baby. Exactly. She's been hustling, she's been grinding. She hasn't lost her mind at all. The rest of you people have lost your minds. This is the Ramsey Show. You've got a lot on your plate, a job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family. While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, for your health care.

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RamseySolutions.com slash SmartVestor. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Anthony O'Neill. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today. Carol is with us in Phoenix. Hi, Carol, how are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I'm paying my son's student loans, which is my choice.

My parents paid for my college, so I just feel I should pay for his. So it's my choice, and I'm willing to do that. I only have $5,600 left. However, the company that he works for pays $100 a month towards his student loans as well. So my question is, should I just pay it off and be done with it? Or should I continue to let them pay $100 a month towards the student loans? Can you do both? I mean, because $100 a month, that's $1,200 a year. That's four years. Can you just go ahead and just pay it off yourself and just take the $100 extra as well as you're paying it off?

I can. I can do that. I mean, like I said, I could pay it all off right now or- Oh, you have the money to pay it off today? I do. All right. Then you would miss the benefit. I see. Correct. So I have two little days on each shoulder. One's a good one saying, you know, pay it off. Another one saying don't spend it. How much money do you have?

What's your net worth? Total probably about almost $900,000. Well, the way I answer questions on this show is if I woke up in your shoes, what would I do? Okay. So you're a millionaire. Way to go. And do you worry about $5,000?

No, you don't. You wanted to pay for his education. You write a check and you pay for it. Don't worry about it. Okay. It's not. Okay. If it was a $50,000 swing out of $900,000, it might get my attention.

It's half of a percent of your world. One half of one percent of your whole financial world, right? Right. It's irrelevant. Yeah. And so, you know, it's not, again, if it was 50 grand, we might say, okay, take the benefit, set the money aside, and then when the benefit pays it all off, then you can release that money. But I'm just not going to screw with it for five grand. In your situation, I'm going to be done with it.

Write a check, be done with it. Clear it. Yeah, that's five years, too. That's my scary part. Yeah. Will my son be there for five years? And is he still going to be working there five years from now? And're screwing around with all this for a hundred dollars exactly it's just um it's not worth the effort that's not even coming to interest yeah that's that's yeah good

question uh cindy's in chicago hi cindy how are you i'm good thanks how are you today better than i deserve how can we help well i have a bit of a housing question. I am, and I'll try to be as succinct as I can. I'm 60 years old, have been retired for three years, just got called in from an old boss that wants me to come back into the workforce, probably about 150K a year. But the position is six hours away from here. So do I rent a house? Do I, am I insane to even think about it? Are you married? Yes. Yes, we have. He's good to go.

I mean, he's fine. So it'd be both of you going. This is like an adventure. Yeah, it could be an adventure, but I don't really want to, in this market, I'm kind of scared to buy a house for two to three years. Yeah. Oh, I agree. So I don't really want to do it now.

Oh, I'm right. So where would you be living? Columbus, Ohio. Okay. And how long would this gig last, do you think? He went with the startup business, and I love building things, starting things. So, I mean, I told him I'm not going to be there 10 years because I'll be 70. So that ain't happening.

But I would do maybe two to five. Okay. Let's call it five. You're 65. And the gig is up, and you made $600,000. And my husband's 72. Okay. Is that where you want to spend the next five years in Columbus, Ohio?

Yeah, I don't know. I need to go there, yeah. And after that's over, where do you want to be living? It doesn't matter. I don't have any. Okay. So I think what I want to do is I want to aim at where you want to be living 10 years from now, and that might answer your question, or seven years from now.

Okay. We want to be living in Florida. I'm just making this up. Okay. Well well you sell the property in chicago you move to columbus you rent until you get this gig done and then you move to florida and you buy your retirement place okay so rent rent would be a yeah but if you're going to stay in columbus after the gig is over because you just love columbus and you want you you know we want to watch the sunset there in the end of our life,

then that's cool. Go ahead and start talking about making a purchase there. Okay. But I could like to leave the first year or so, just hang out and rent. Yeah, nothing wrong with that at all. Okay. What a cool thing. It's kind of fun.

It's kind of fun to feel that valuable, right? I was just sitting on my desk, having a glass of wine, enjoying my night, and there it happened. Yeah. You know what? I think think i'd ask for more just see if he'd give it okay i think i will just because you know because this is all just for fun anyway right i mean like i was i can go back on the deck with another glass of wine if you don't bring the price up. Exactly. And thanks to you, we're at $1.6 million. And it's all tribute to you. I didn't give you any money.

You did it all. I'm proud of you, though. Way to go. So how much of that did you inherit? Zero. There's another one. Another everyday millionaire right there. Another one right there.

And you know what I like about that? And I did a ton of stupid i i got there in spite of myself i love it i love it and here's one thing i love about your your story um is you you're debt free 1.6 million you have options so if if if this doesn't work out you're okay like you don't need this you're doing this because you want it's just kind of for fun yeah yeah it's like what do i got to lose right and you're gonna make a hundred thousand dollars yeah you you trade chicago for columbus for a little while yeah not a big deal do this and she goes to two million in the next five years oh more yeah much more come on yeah you're gonna be at five. Oof.

It's pretty incredible. So what were your all's careers when you were working and building this wealth? Physical therapy, and I ran a clinical research team. Okay. All right. Very cool. Medicine. So you had a household income a couple hundred?

Yeah. Back then? Yeah. At the end. Yeah, at the end. I mean, not during. And the 1.6 is what? Mutual funds? Mutual funds and house.

What's the house worth? 300. Okay. Oh. All right. So the majority of that's in mutual funds. Way to go. And you inherited how much of the total 1.6?

Zero. Zero. I think I asked that a minute ago. Okay. Way to go. And you inherited how much of the total, 1.6? Zero. Zero. I think I asked that a minute ago. Okay. I like that. I like asking it over and over and over again. Just to remind all these left-wing idiots out there that all rich people didn't inherit their money. You know?

As a matter of fact, most of them didn't. There you go. Most of them are Cindy. Way to go, Cindy. What a cool place you are in. So proud of you. I bet he pays her $200 to come. What do you want to bet?

This is The Ramsey Show. Música Anthony O'Neill Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Julian is with us in Jacksonville, Florida. Hi, Julian. How are you? I'm doing better than I deserve, Dave. Good. How can we help today? So I had a question for you.

I wanted to ask you if I should start a business right now at this point in my life. Why not? So I'm currently 22. I'm about to graduate college in about two semesters. And I was very fortunate to have worked when I was in high school. At one point I was doing almost 30 hours a week while in high school. And through a very aggressive portfolio,

I've managed to end up buying a house at this point. So I currently have a house that I bought and I'm moving into it in August at this point. What do you study? So I study computer science. Okay. So I'm an engineer for computer science. And what's the business you're going to start while you're in school?

So we're going to start, uh, an electric mobility, uh, business for personal transportation. So this would be ranging everything from electric mobility for older, uh, people and as well as small personal transportation, like electric scooters and skateboards. Sounds interesting.

And you said we, you and some friends. Uh, so all, so the idea of all the designs are mine. Uh, Sounds interesting. And you said we, you and some friends? So the ideas and all the designs are mine. I have a few friends that I'm considering bringing on. I haven't decided 100% on that yet. Okay. Okay. Okay, so you're going to design, for instance, a scooter, have it manufactured, and sell it.

Correct. So it'd be small-scale manufacturing. Some of the initial market research I've done, as well as I have all the supplies and everything already set and ready, and based on that, it makes economical sense to do it. Walk me through that part. What are you selling them for? What's the total dollars involved? So we're aiming to have about three different models, ranging from 500,

well, this is for the electric scooter parts at least, ranging from 500 to about 1,200. For the 500, we're looking at about $250 manufacturing and selling for $500. And for the upper end, for the $1,200 one, we're looking at about $600 to manufacture and the $1,200 to sell. All right. And that's about lined up with what the current market and what wholesale value. And how many would you do in your first run? I'm sorry? How many would you make in your first run? I'm sorry? How many would you make in your first run?

So we were going to sell locally first, and we were going to do about 100 of each model. $600,000. Correct. And where's this money coming from? I was very fortunate to have been investing money in the stock market, and I just ended up with quite a bit of money. How much?

That's kind of where I am right now. How much, man? So right now, including, so I just bought the house. So I'm sitting on about around $400. Do you pay cash for the home? I did pay cash for the house, correct. So the $400 is not including the house. And as well as all the taxes for the capital gains have been paid off.

No. I would not start this business. No, I would not start this business. No, I would not start this business. Here's why. Here's the rule of thumb that I use. Anytime you have to James Bond the deal, you don't do the deal. James Bond in every movie is playing cards with the villain and puts all his chips on the table for one hand.

If he loses that hand, the world gets collapsed and we all die. If you put $400,000, only $400,000 into scooters and they don't sell, you're screwed. You're back to zero. No, I would not bet the farm on one hand. That's bad diversification. It's bad economics. It's bad business practices. You would need to start much smaller than you're talking about starting and prove your concept somewhere other than in your dreams. So are you saying not start it or just start small?

I'm saying start uber, uber small. Very, very small. Not with Uber. I agree. But start like one-tenth of what you're talking about if you want to put 60 grand of your 400 in and go sell those and then use that money to buy the next batch and that money to buy the next batch fine am i dropping 600 in when i've only got 400 and this thing turns sideways and you end up with zero and a bunch of scooters in your garage no thank you and julie he's only teaching what i've i've

watched him do the man has moved yeah here's what here's what happens man because i i am i've been doing this running this business for almost 30 years yeah we made almost all of our money julian off of 10 of our ideas the other 90 of our ideas sucked every entrepreneur experiences that you guys in the public never see most of you never see the 90 of our ideas that sucked but if we had scaled them all at to to use up our entire net worth on one of those ideas that sucked we would have been out of business instead you do you run test markets and you prove you do social proofing on this somewhere other than your research of the marketplace you actually go sell something because people when they're taking surveys and they say

oh yes i would buy that they lie until you ask them for their freaking money and then when they give you real money and there's a transaction that occurs that is market research dude that will get you there so no i do if the only way to do this is for you to spend all of the money that you have on this one play, only to find out that you're late to the scooter game, that Bird already beat you there, only to find out that electronic skateboards are now out of business because everybody keeps cracking their head open and nobody wants to ride them anymore, only to find out the things that are happening in the consumer marketplace that you couldn't see with your research lens and then you lose it all because you bet the farm on one horse race and you lose the family farm no that is a lack of a diversification that's james bonding it

and i teach small business people this all the time in Entree Leadership. If you've got to slide all your chips to the middle of the table and on that one hand of cards, then you're making a bad play. That only works in the movies. That only works in some book that some guy wrote where he forgot to tell you about all the fish he didn't catch before he caught the big one. Because the truth is, in the real world, 90% of our ideas suck. The truth is there's three rules

of business it takes twice as long as you think it's going to it costs twice as much as you think it's going to and you're not the exception those are the three rules of business and i man i've experienced that i knocked all the hair off my head dude and i don't want you to have to experience it the wrong way yeah one of the reasons i went broke in real estate business is i had all of my chips into on the table in one business model that was broken yeah and when the business model when the cracks in the business model happened and the business model you know crashed in on my head i didn't have anything left it broke me and it's a lack of diversification it's a bad it's bad business process yeah so don't do it the way you've outlined it. I like the way he's thinking, though, Dave, as far as in I want a business.

I never met a 20-year-old that ran up $400,000 in the stock market. Exactly. I'm curious about that, too. But just assuming this. Let me tell you, here's the problem, Jillian. You are unbelievably smart, and that might be your biggest handicap. That's true. You're going to overthink crap, and you're going to have an intellectual arrogance

because you're so stinking smart that's going to cause you to step in dog poo, and you're never going to see it coming. Because you were looking, and I'm telling you, some of us are a little dumber. We got an advantage. Because you obviously, man, 20 years you're you're a freaking savant man doing what you're doing it's awesome i'm so proud of you hey cash but do not bet the farm on this you you i don't know what you did right that got you to 400 but it got you there and i'm happy for you that you got it but now from there what i would do is use standard business acumen and let's

test market this let's pilot it it with a tenth of what you're talking about. Where if you lose $60,000 and instead of $400,000 you got $340,000, I'm not so pissed. You lose this whole thing because Bird comes along and eats your lunch with a Scooter World or something. I just don't want you to do that. This is The Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Colossians 3.12, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. Richard Branson said,

I've always believed that the way you treat your employees is the way they will treat your customers, and that people flourish when they are praised. Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. We're answering your questions about life. Kiernan is with us in San Antonio. Hi, Kiernan, how are you? Hi, I'm doing great. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Hey, I'm 28 years old. I make about 63 grand a year. I've got a bachelor's in economics, a master's in public administration. I got about 130 in student loan debt. I got about 50 sitting in an investment account, six stashed away in a traditional IRA in a Roth. The Roth has got a grand in it. The traditional's got five in it. My employer puts 10% of my salary in a 401k for me.

Job is in D.C. Live in Texas because of the COVID thing. At some point, I'm going to have to go back to D.C. Was in the Peace Corps for three years. Um, 30 payments into the student loan forgiveness portion of the 120 that I've got to make to, um, to get the balance forgiven at the end of that, uh, cheaper for me to buy something in DC.C., a condo, it looks like, because that's about what I can afford. What's your question?

How do I untangle all of this? It's easy. Pay off the debt. Yeah, we need to get rid of the student loan debt. Here's the thing. To date, the 120-month due to serving a nonprofit student loan forgiveness program, the PSLF, the Public Service Loan Forgiveness Program, has had 250,000 people apply after they finish their 120 payments. They have granted 3,700 out of $250,000.

It's a scam. It's not something you want to bank on. The government has lied. And they're not following through on it. There are some types of student loan forgiveness that actually do work. That one does not work.

The data on it is horrendous and heartbreaking because people spent 10 freaking years working towards it. So you currently work for the Peace Corps? No, no, no, no, no. I work for an agency of the federal government. Okay, so that's why you only make $60,000 when you have a master's degree in public policy. Because you should be making double that, right?

I suppose, having spent three years in Africa and not looking for anything stateside. Yeah, I don't know, to be real honest. I mean, you had a degree in economics, right, and a master's in public – what was it? Public administration. Public administration. Yeah. And, I mean, generally that does line you up for a governmental position, without a doubt. But, yeah, I think you probably are worth more than you're paid in the marketplace.

I was a little shocked when I heard that, the Masters, and I heard that 60K. So, anyway, the way I untangle it is I work on the career side of this equation and say, am I really being paid what I am worth in this marketplace? And make sure that you're worth that. I could be wrong. I'm not 100% sure. And then I'm going to get about the business of getting the student loan cleaned up so that I can begin investing. So right back to Anthony's point, clearing the debt is the simple and the correct mathematical way to get you the closest way to some kind of financial peace, some

kind of financial stability, some level of wealth. The shortest distance between you and there is to clear this student loan debt. And, you know, here's a problem that I have with this program, Dave, and correct me if I'm wrong, but it's like a lot of these people see this, well, I'm going to make the minimum payment when they have the means to make a lot more, when they have the means to pay it off. Some of them do. But they say, you know what? Just make the minimum.

Live in this for 10 years and see if they forgive me. Then they get to the end. They won't forgive me. Now they got to go another two, three years to pay it off. Yeah. And it's, yeah, aside from the fact that it's just misleading. Exactly. Hundreds of thousands of people that have not been able to get the government to do what they thought they were promised.

And in some cases, they haven't followed through on the details. In some cases, something else is going on. But it's the ugliest, one of the ugliest stories in the whole student loan debacle so um i mean well yeah i i'm not gonna wait on someone else to fix this if i'm in your shoes i'm gonna work on the income side of my equation and i'm gonna clear the student loan debt so that i can get about the business of building wealth and i would stop adding to investments until you get this mess cleaned up uh but i really do think you can double your income. I might be wrong. I'm wrong a lot of times, but I think you've got some legitimate education that's usable in the marketplace there.

Yes, sir. I really do. Nicholas is with us in San Francisco. Hi, Nicholas. How are you? Hi, Dave. How can we help? So, I'm 27 years old. I'm single.

I have no debt. I have $500,000 in savings, and I make $250,000 a year. And before the pandemic, I was kind of living well beyond my means. However, post-pandemic, something changed, and I started just spending basically all my income. I don't know. Like something during the pandemic made me change my outlook on life. I don't know if this new way of life is the correct way, or should I go back on being super frugal and go on and saving all my income? Does my question make sense?

Yeah. So you're saying that post-pandemic, you start spending everything you make. Exactly. Just like, I don't know. Does that indicate what I think it indicates? I think it indicates you're hopeless. You don't believe in the future anymore. So spend it all now because the future is not going to be there.

I guess. I don't know. It's like YOLO mentality. Like you only live once. Yeah. Like before the pandemic, I would just save it. But YOLO takes on two forms. YOLO takes on the form of I don't believe there is a positive future, which is hopelessness.

And the other type of YOLO is just simple immaturity, and it's I'm a child, and I want to go, thank God it's Friday, oh God, it's Monday, and I have no discipline whatsoever, and I just want to be immature and spin my butt off. And I don't care, I'm hedonistic, I don't care anything about any noble calling in this life at all. That's the general YOLO falling,

but occasionally I run into a YOLO that's based in hopeless hopelessness hope deferred makes the heart sick the proverb says but when desire comes it is the tree of life and so i think your heart got broken oh yeah yeah yeah 26 year old though dave tend to believe that i'm young you only live live once. Enjoy it. Yeah, but he was a saver before. And the pandemic changed him. Exactly. He didn't suddenly become immature. Right. Pandemic didn't make him immature.

Not at all. So I'm going to tell you, Nicholas, I think that you sit down and you think about, do I really believe that this is all going to work if I play it through? You quit believing it was going to work if I save money. Yeah. If I save and invest. I don't want you to be necessarily, you make $250,000 a year, you don't need to live on beans and rice.

Right. Okay? But you do need to be saving money, and that's a spiritual, emotional, psychological indicator that you believe in the future. And if you quit believing in the future because of the pandemic, that's hopelessness, and that's what I smell. Right. And I wouldn't quit believing in the future because of the pandemic, that's hopelessness, and that's what I smell. Right.

And I wouldn't quit believing in the future. If you had $100,000 saved, it got you through the pandemic, so that should have been proof that your philosophy was working. Yeah. I can promise you this about the future. There's going to be awesome times. I can also promise you this about the future. There's going to be bad times.

Yes, sir. Count on it. And be ready for both. Be the pig in the brick house, the third pig. The third one. When the wolf comes, he huffs and he puffs, and you're in the brick house. And that's enjoying your life and saving money. Both.

It's not just one or the other. Hope that helps. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Child, producer of The Ramsey Show. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world?

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