The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Stop Paying Off Debt After Losing My Job? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: March 12, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is done, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Christy Wright, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today here on the air. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Laura is with us in Lincoln, Nebraska. Hi, Laura.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I lost my job last week, and my husband and I are about halfway through baby step two. My question is, do I stop that and pile up money, or do we keep going after the debt?

What does he make? Around 75. What did you make? Around 132,000. Whoa. Okay. Yeah. All right.

What did you do? Managed. I'm a nurse by trade, and then I manage a senior housing. Okay. So is your plan to start looking for something? Yes. Okay. How much debt do you guys have, not counting your home?

About $30,000. Okay. Yes, I would push pause on the baby steps. Okay. I mean, you lost 65%, 70% of your household income. And so you need to just pay bills and stay afloat with his income. Sit down, look at the budget, tighten it up, comb through the details, cut expenses like crazy, and pile up as much cash as you can pile up.

If you can save money, go ahead and save money. Pile it up. Okay? Okay. Did you get severance? Yes how long how much six months six months they're paying it out monthly yes okay well then we know we can pile up cash if we stop everything right right okay and so here's the goal if you pile up some cash and you get a new job inside of six months, you got a signing bonus.

Right. You get some extra money. If you get a job next month, you doubled your income for five months, right? Right. This could be awesome. Doesn't feel like it right now, does it? No. Yeah. Hurts your your feelings pisses you off those kinds of things i understand but i think if you can get your heads up above the pain of that and start

going the faster i land something the longer my income is doubled that kind of gets exciting could turn into a huge blessing. You see what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah? Yeah. But if you suck your thumb for six months, it's going to be hard. Right.

But it is normal to feel like you got gut punched, because it sounds like you got gut punched. It sounds like you didn't see this coming. Mm-mm. Yeah. I'm sorry. I know that hurts. It's a special kind of rejection i remember a guy firing me one time in my 20s he said this is not personal and i went wait a minute is somebody else

of course it's personal you butthole that's ridiculous there's no one else sitting here of course it's personal to me it's really personal to me you know so yeah minor surgery is what happens to someone else right yeah so i understand i get it uh but mathematically you really could turn this into an opportunity so what i would say is yes you're correct i would stop everything pile up as much cash as you can pile up the faster you get a job now let's say let's pretend for a second let's pretend you piled up thirty thousand dollars in the next few months and then you got a job you would push play once you get the job on your baby steps again which means you would write a check for thirty thousand dollars and you'd be debt freefree that day. Okay.

So you're not going to really lose any traction if you pile up a bunch of cash. You're going to use it on the baby steps when the storm goes by. But right now the storm is called unemployment. Right. So, Christy, talk about the fear and the hurt of this. Yeah, I think, you know, we all have plans. And especially when you're paying off your debt snowball, you have a plan. You have a projection of here's how long it's going to take and here's what it's going to look like.

And what I love about what Dave just said to you, Laura, is that he's showing you how your plan could still happen or your goal still could be achieved in just a different way than you planned. And going through this is not fun. And I know that there is a part of you that is going that is just feel so down and out. And that's real. And I hear you and I hear it in your voice. The thing that I want to encourage you is when you get yourself back up, because you will, and dust yourself off, which you will, and you start moving and shaking and making things happen and you're applying for jobs and, and you're getting interviews, and you're starting to maybe even see something better where you're making more money, and you get this stuff going and you get the ball rolling,

you will come out of this stronger. And I know that sounds cliche, because just like you said, it doesn't feel like it right now, but you will come out this on the other side. And then what's amazing is you will be debt-free, and it didn't happen at all how you planned, but it still happened. So I hope this encouraged you of what Dave said, how he painted that picture for you,

because you were probably feeling like this has completely derailed your plans, derailed the goal, and it doesn't have to. Every one of us have a little kid inside that's scared, and the little kid says, Oh, I'll never make as much money again, so I better take a job making $100. I used to make $135. But the reality is that's not a rule. There's no law that says that. Why can't you get a job making $150 and get it next month and get the whole five months of severance on top of that? This could turn into your largest income year of your whole life.

There is no rule that says you move down or that this ends up bad. As a matter of fact, if you play it right, it probably ends up good it actually ends up going thanks guys you know thanks appreciate the tip of the hat there as i went out the door life is good and and you know you go that direction that makes sense so um but there's the inside of us is that fear monster that says, you're never going to make as much as you used to make. You know, and I didn't. When I went broke the first year, I made a couple hundred the year before, and I lost everything, and I got back to 120, but I didn't get back to 200. It took me a while to get back up over 200 again.

And then I decided to do financial peace and we went from 120 to 60 because i quit doing real estate and started doing this stuff full time yeah and so and my wife's like where's the financial what are we doing where's the financial piece you just took a pay cut in half twice yeah i went from a couple of hundred to 120 and then you know and then now you're going to go to 60 but she was in on the decision i didn't do it by myself so that that's it. Well, I think there's so much of it, too, that's in reframing failure or falling down. I was just speaking at Business Boutique last weekend, and I used an example of Sarah Blakely.

Her dad, when they were around the dinner table when she was young, would ask the family, how did you fail this week? And they would celebrate it because he said, if you're not failing, you're not trying new things and doing these. He reframed it for her of we're going to get back up. It's a stepping stone on the journey to success. Oh, by the way, Sarah Blakely started a thing called Spanx. Yeah, just a few. And she's one of the youngest billionaire women in America. Yeah.

How did you fail this week? We're cool. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, is a nonprofit organization that helps members carry one another's burdens with health care expenses, and they have successfully shared each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years.

See if CHM is right for you by visiting chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Ramsey Personality. Christy Wright is my co-host today here on the air. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Courtney is in Norfolk, Virginia. Hi, Courtney. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, can you guys hear me okay? Yeah, what's going on? Oh my God, I'm already about to start crying.

I've been staying at home with the baby for the last like six months and money's just really tight. So I don't know if I can keep doing it or if I should go to work or what to do really. Okay. Let's, let's dig into it. Let's, let's unpack this. What, when you say money's tight, kind of tell us a little bit about your financial situation and are you home because you want to be home or what, what's going on? Kind of walk us through your decisions of what's going on. So I quit working when I was about six months pregnant cause I was so sick.

I couldn't drive. My husband's military. So he brings home about $3,400 a month, but without our mortgage, we're like $23,000 in debt. Okay. So it's kind of hard to stay on top of things and be able to save and do things we want to do without having to stress about it. Yeah. What are things you want to do? What do you mean? Anything. stress about it yeah what are things you want to do what do you mean anything because right now he my husband gets pretty mad uh because when he wants to go do things i'm like no i want to use

that money instead of going out to eat on a date i want to pay it on a credit card i i don't want that i'm sick of it but he's kind of person is oh, another $50 on the card won't hurt. Yeah. But I can't do that. What's the $23,000 in debt? Is that all credit cards? No. So $15,000 of it is his card that I've tried many times to get him to sell it.

But he thinks her name's a cuss word. So he does not want to get rid of his car whatsoever, but the rest of that is credit cards. Okay. You don't have a money problem. You have a husband problem. Yeah, this isn't even a question of being a stay-at-home mom or working. That's actually not the root of what's going on, just like Dave said.

Yeah, I think you guys are destined to spend some time with a marriage counselor because it hasn't got anything to do with my name being a cuss word. It's got to do with you have a set of goals, and he wants to just spend money, and you guys cannot pay the bills. And so, in other words, he wants to keep a car that you guys cannot afford, and that is forcing you into the workplace. So you're trading a car, his desire for that car, over your desire to be at home. That's the conflict. Mathematically, if you didn't have the get a job or start your own business or create any kind of income that is taking you away from your baby which is where you want to be it's still not

going to fix the root problem which is you and your husband are not on the same page you're going to make more money to pay for those things that you want to do but you're going to resent him by the fact that you have to and you don't got to do is is it's not a dave ramsey or christy wright answer really and it's not a is can i afford to stay at home the answer is you already told me you can't afford to stay at home because you have a car you can't afford and so i think the math's pretty simple you guys get on a plan together, both of your grown-ups raising a child, and get rid of the car, and I think you'll be able to stay at home mathematically, if that's your desire, and it sounds like that's your desire.

But it's, you know, in other words, your desire for this and you being there with the child has got to come before his desire for a truck. And that's called being a grown up. So, yeah. How old are you guys? 20. Yeah. All right. Well, I, you know, this is his challenge to move from being a little boy that wants everything to being a man that serves his family.

And every one of us has to do that. I had the exact same thing at my house many years ago. I'm an old guy now, but many years ago I had to make the decision that it was not all about Dave and that I've got three kids to raise and feed and a wife that has a vote. And so you guys need to sit down with a good marriage counselor as soon as possible and spend some time. And if he won't go, you go without him and go see a counselor because that will start to give you some language to pull this together, because this is not going to get better. It's going to get worse. And it's just showing up now that the choices he's making are, you know, meaning you don't have a vote, and he's putting his selfish desires ahead of his family.

Yeah, it's interesting, too, because often we what we think is a money issue is really a values issue what you're talking about are your values your dreams your goals that's that's money is just what you're putting towards them in his case he values the car in your case you're valuing being at home and so you've got to get to the root level and talk about the values that's what we're really talking about here the money is just like you said where the where the symptom where the evidence is coming out of what what the problem is i can't tell you the number of times in 30 years of doing financial coaching that we can sell a car and enables mom to stay home that wants to stay home didn't she say he's deployed too do you need a car if he's

deployed i think she said he's deployed oh well that's gonna make marriage counseling a little difficult but um uh we'll have to wait until he gets back, I guess. But like you said, she can go and put some language for the conversations around it. Yeah, that won't hurt. But you don't need a car. Bottom line is, you don't trade a kid for a car. You don't trade time at home. If mom wants to be at home, you don't trade that for a car.

And sometimes you have to say it like that to really see what you're talking about like that's what you're really good at dave is just like calling it like it is and calling it out and when you see it like they're like oh like all the all the the ways that we danced around this issue and walked on eggshells i was like no that's really what we're doing and neither of us are okay with that hopefully he's not okay with that so we're going to do something about it yeah well and it's a different answer if she wants to be in the workplace a hundred percent professional lady and wants to be in the workplace a hundred percent professional lady and wants to do something that's what i love helping women do or start businesses from home whatever the thing is i would love to help her do that but you hear

in her voice she doesn't want to you know that's not what she wants to do started the call with tears yeah that's right and so uh you know but but yeah so change the equation then if we want to choose to move ahead financially and pay off the car and keep it um because we like the car and i'm working i'm working and i realize i'm working for that then you don't say you're trading a kid for a car because i'm not going to shame i'm not going to mom shame her right oh 100 that's the thing so it's not that it's a different but it's got to do with you know your money flows toward what you care about. Your values, that's right.

When you care about saving, money flows towards saving. When you care about giving and being generous, it flows towards generosity. Money flows towards what you care about. You spend your time and your money on what matters to you. And, you know, it's just infallible to look at it that way. Open phones at 888-825-5225. William is in Washington, D.C. Hi, William.

How are you? Hi. Good. Thanks. Hi, Dave. And hi, Christy. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

I've got a quick question. When does it make sense to treat your mortgage as part of a debt snowball? In terms of the figures, our mortgage is at about $500K, and we've got about $260K of income. So it looks like we could pay off the mortgage in about four years if we just focused in on it. So I'm interested in your advice. I would rather go ahead and get your retirement started at 15% of your income in Baby Step 4 and do something towards kids' college if that's a box to be checked, and that's going to change your four-year payoff into about a six-year payoff is all,

and I'd rather you get started on that, and so that leaves it in Baby Step 6. All right. Thank you. Does that make sense to you it does it does i'm just looking at the at the number and it's an ugly number i love i love it that you want to kill it man yeah he's so motivated knock it out i love it that's so cool yeah you're gonna get it and what's gonna end up happening is you're probably gonna end up doing it in four anyway because your your income is probably going up and you're going to just start looking at it and going we're going to cut this and cut that and smack it because you once you get on that once you can see it once you get that thing man yeah you go you can't stop yourself from going after it that's it's very very cool so neat hey there's no no wrong answers here

but in terms of that you can't really mess up getting out of debt if you do it. But I would prefer you to stick with the baby steps. I think you'll have a better result. And leave that house over there. It's not going to delay you that much is the point. You're just laser focused, dude. Well done. Very cool.

This is The Ramsey Show. my co-host on the ramsey show today christy wright ramsey personality in the lobby on the debt-free stage right here at ramsey solutions carl and danielle are with us hey guys how are you great how are you fantastic welcome where do are you? Fantastic, Dave. Welcome. Where do you guys live? We're in Ohio, just a little bit west of Pittsburgh. Oh, fun. Welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And all the way down here to do a debt-free scream. Yes, sir. Love it. How much have you paid off? $41,000. Neat. How long did that take? Nine months. All right, man, you did it fast. And your range of income during that take? Nine months. All right. Man, you did it fast. And your range of income during that time?

Last year, we made $125,000, and this year, we're scheduled to about $150,000. Nice. Well done. Very cool. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a nurse. I work in a billing office. Okay.

Good. What kind of debt was the $41,000? A tractor and a driveway. A tractor and a driveway. A tractor and a driveway. Those are not things we usually hear on this stage. True. What's the tractor for? So we built a house, and we have like 25 acres, and he thought he needed a tractor.

He, he, a little finger pointing there. The driveway was in a horrible location, so we had to make a better driveway, but we didn't have the funds to do that, so we ended up taking a loan out to make the driveway happen. Okay. And use the tractor to do some of it, probably. Yes. Yeah. Okay. All right.

So what happened nine months ago that made you just say, all right, we got these two weird little debts. We're getting rid of them. Well, actually, it started about ten years ago, and we liked your program so much we did it three times. Oh, my God. Third time's a charm. Third time's a charm. Yeah. So originally we got married, and I was at the library, public library, because we had no money to do anything else.

And I was looking for a book on money. And I saw a couple books, and I saw Dave Ramsey. I said, who's this guy? We'll look at this. Take it home. And Total Money Maker read the book. And I saw a couple books, and I saw Dave Ramsey. I said, who's this guy? We'll look at this. Take it home. And Total Money Maker read the book, and I was like, oh, we've got to try this. We've got to try this. And I got her on board.

We did it. And, like, it was $67,000 worth of debt initially. And then I fell off the wagon. She stayed strong. We took in some more debts, just vehicle debt, stupid debt. We paid all of that off, and then we went back in debt again. Then I fell off the wagon again. I fell off the wagon.

What are we going to do to keep you on the wagon? We need to camp here for a second. Get a little seatbelt. One year coin, five year coins. So are you done this time? Yes, we're done. We actually drove down in a car that we paid cash for. That's a good thing.

Yes. That's a good thing. I think this time, honestly, we were doing this whole debt-free so many times, and we went to build a house because we thought that was going to make us happy. And I get on Pinterest too much, and I thought that was going to make us happy. And, you know, I get on Pinterest too much and I thought that I could have a Pinterest house and, um, you know, we had a certain income and I kind of threw some little fits and we ended up building the house that we thought was going to make us happy. And, um, and we are happy with it. We love our house, but, um, we had all this,

we accrued all this debt and there was a point in my life, I'm like, our marriage was starting to get a little rocky. I don't know why. I don't know what happened because we've always been best friends. And I didn't know why I wasn't happy. And I remember driving to work one day, and I just felt the lowest point in my life. And I'm like, we have everything we wanted, but we're not happy. And I dropped my phone in between the console of my car in the seat and I shouldn't have been driving digging for my phone but I was and I pulled out the cd from like fpu from a long time ago and I'm

like where'd this come from and I remember this flood of emotions come over me and I'm like wow like if we would have done things right we wouldn't be here like I just felt like hopeless I was like why did we do this and um I put in the CD and I think it was like lesson four about gazelle intensity and I'm pretty sure I cried on the way to work so I get home and I'm scrambling through our garage because we still haven't unpacked completely yet. And I found the whole case of all the CDs. But I was missing the first three because just like money, you don't lend people stuff because you don't get it back. So I happened to get online to look you up to see how I could get those first three CDs because I needed to do it again.

And while I'm on your site, I realized I'm like, well, who's this Rachel Cruz person? And who's this Chris Hogan guy? So I was looking, I went to the library and it was when I read Rachel Cruz's book. Like that changed my life. I realized that I was chasing the wrong things. I thought the house was going to make me happy. I thought, you know, I needed all these nice clothes and I needed to have the perfect house, but what's important is my family and God and, you know, our life and it's not the stuff. So we like sold everything. I mean, we haven't had a kitchen

table for, we finally got our kitchen table. We haven't had one for like four years and we were like gazelle intense. And, um, it was in that time I realized it wasn't the stuff making us happy. So we did nothing. The beans and rice was like, we didn't even have beans in our, it was just rice. We did a lot of hiking. I was hiking and running. And when I read that book and we started to come together and realize we don't need this stuff. We just need each other and to get right so we can live a life that we want to live and

inspire others. It was in that moment. And then I read Chris Hogan's book, and I crunched some numbers because I'm kind of the nerd here, and I was like, holy cow, we can probably be millionaires by the time we're 40. We can do it. It's going to be hard, and we still have to kind of live a simple life, but it's doable.

So, I mean, those goals, I think you have to have goals that are bigger than you thought. Like, you have to believe. You can do anything. We live in a beautiful country that you can come from nothing, because we did come from nothing. We're making something of ourselves. Amen. So, love your life, not theirs.

Exactly. That's amazing. I love Rachel Cruz. She's amazing. That's cool. She is. It's so cool, too,. Exactly. That's amazing. I love Rachel Cruz. She's amazing. That's cool. She is. It's so cool, too, how your situation didn't change. You changed.

Yes. And that's what changed the situation. You thought, if I could change the house, change the car, change these different factors, and they didn't change. You did. Yeah. And it changed everything. It changed everything.

That's really cool. Yeah. Well done, you guys. Yeah. Okay. What's your son's name, and how old is he? Aiden, and he's 10. All right.

So what do you guys, now that you've done it, and how you got out of debt and how you're going to stay on the wagon, what are the secrets? I think just honestly stop chasing the rat race that we do in America. And, you know, simplicity. Like, just love the simple things and be humble because when you have nothing, you realize when you get stuff how much more enjoyable it is. Just contentment. And little victories. If you try to pay off $67,000 or $41,000 for the debt, it's insurmountable.

But if you can do it, $500 here, $1,000 here, it's definitely doable. Small victories make big wars. Yeah. Amen. That's awesome. Amen. Well done, you guys. I'm proud of you.

Thanks. Thank you. Very well done. I'm sure Rachel is as well. Good stuff. Good stuff. We've got a copy of Chris's other book for you,

Everyday Millionaires. And I guess you've got that one already. So we'll get you a different one if you want something else, whatever you want as your gift here for being with us. And we're very proud of you all right it's carl and

danielle and aiden from just west of pittsburgh 41 000 paid off in nine months making 125 to 150 this is the last time count it down let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! I love it. I love it. That's amazing. Very few people win at something as a linear projection.

Most of the time there's some ups and downs, and sometimes the downs are even a complete falling off the wagon. Yeah, we see this in business all the time. People think it's just going to be this perfect path to success. It's like it's a roller coaster. It's peaks, it's valleys, it's holding on by your fingernails sometimes. But you know what I heard in her voice that was so interesting when she talked about this time? She got it in her spirit, not just in her head.

She got it in her spirit. Went in her heart. And in her spirit went in her heart and that changed everything that's the permanent change that's right that's transformation versus change that's right yeah there's a difference very good proud of you guys very very well done this is the ramsey show Thank you. We'll be right back. Christy Wright, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host this hour. Open phones at 888-825-5225. If your insurance company has ever bumped up your car insurance for no freaking reason, doesn't that make you mad? It makes me mad. Other people are mildly annoyed, but I'm a hillbilly.

I just get mad. Listen, you don't have to sit there and take that stuff. As a matter of fact, even if they haven't bumped it up, they're probably charging you too much. So go to DaveRamsey.com and hit our endorsed local provider site, our ELPs, and get this. The average person who checks with one of our ELPs and lets their independent agents, lets them shop around and get you the best possible deal on your insurance. They save around $700 over what they're currently paying.

That's the average. That's not bad. So never again. I mean, you just went through COVID. Why would you pay too much for insurance? Go to Dave Ramsey dot com slash ELP. It's part of getting your finances straightened up. It's not overpaying for insurance.

Jasmine is with us in Canada. Hi, Jasmine. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, Christy. Hi. It's great to talk to you. Thanks for doing my call.

Sure. I am currently on Baby Step 2 for the second and final time. We are $27,500 in debt. We have three kids. It is one, four, and seven. And this past year, like the beginning of this year, me and my husband finally are getting on the same page with how to pay off debt and, like, just get after it and everything.

Good. Yeah, it and everything. Good. Yeah, it's great. And we had a conversation this morning about his business, and I was like, hey, well, we need to ask somebody this question. And he's like, why don't you call Dave Ramsey? I'm like, on it. Okay, let's do this. He started his business six years ago,

and since then it's never made more than $25,000 annually. The costs are really high. He has been having our time charging like what his work is worth. So we've been like, not really a lot of money to pay off debt. I've been on mat leave or having babies or working here and there when we can. But if I'm working, he can't. So I'm almost at the end of my mat leave, and we're kind of trying to figure out what our best option going forward is. Either he can work full-time, up his rates to what they should be, and be trying for his hours.

What's he do? He paints custom motorcycles. Okay. And so if he were working for someone else, he can make what? It depends. He doesn't have his full red seal, so I think his starting wage would be about $25 an hour. I don't know what a red seal is. Oh, sorry. So, like, when you go to school, there's kind of two levels.

There's your certificate, which is what he has, and then there's a red seal. Oh, okay. So that's like your... So it's a painting, automotive painting, second degree. The first one's a certification. I got you. Okay, and so he can make what working for someone else? I think it's about $25 an hour.

That's a whole heck of a lot more than he's making now. Yeah, and that's the thing. Because I'm coming to the end of my mat leave, our other option is if I go back to work, and we have to work kind of alternating, right, because the kids are still home. So he would work sometimes, and then I would work when I get contracted, and I make, dependent on the job, like I'm a hairstylist for film,

so it's $25. Sometimes it's like $250 a day minus taxes. Okay, stop, stop. Okay, you're all over the place. Sorry. That's okay. You guys need to decide who's going to do what, but he either needs to get his rates up, Christy, on his painting.

He's not charging enough. Or he needs to go make $50,000 a year instead of $25,000 if you're working for somebody else. I mean, what are you seeing? Yeah, and being someone that loves to help people with businesses and help people raise their prices to be what's fair and that type of thing, that's what I lean towards, Jasmine, because I'm like, that is such an easy fix if he's good, and it sounds like he is, to get paid a lot more in his business than even he could make working for someone else. Why is he charging half of what he should be? Yeah, I don't get it. Why?

That is a very good question. I don't know. Fear, lack of confidence? Yeah, I think it's that kind of imposter. Like, he doesn't think he's actually good at it when he has people seeking him out from everywhere. Well, the point is this. What he's doing now is, like, custom, high-quality work. If he goes to work for someone else making $25, he's going to be doing generic work.

So if generic work is worth $50,000 a year and his custom work should be worth $75,000 a year. The type of customer that's coming to him has the income for a custom paint job. It should be a higher price type of service. And the other thing, Jasmine, if you're talking about the kit, the child care, where yours are contract-based and you're having to do this trade-off, this is a logistical deal within your household. It seems like the business is more conducive to that because someone else is going to tell you what your hours are if he goes and works for a company making less money. Now, if he just can't or won't raise his prices, we don't want you to stay in the situation where you're not making enough money.

Six years and not having any growth is ridiculous. No, but if he can get over that, if he can fix that, then you can make more money and have more flexibility. That is the better option. And maybe that's enough for him to do it. I don't know. Yeah. I would recommend he triples his prices.

Because if I'm going to pay somebody to do a generic job and that is $5,000 and I'm going to pay someone to do a custom job and that's $7,500, that doesn't blow my brains out. You know what's interesting too, Dave? He will get a different customer. You're getting a certain customer at this price point. It's a pain in the butt. You're getting the wrong customers. I had a business boutique member. She had a photography business.

She was way undercharging. I gave her this whole pep talk. She heard my money talk at business boutique conference. Left that conference and didn't double her. She doubled her price because it was so low. Doubled her price of her services. Tripled her revenue because she actually got more customers at the higher price point than she was getting at the lower price point. I think that's the big fear of people is if I raise my prices, I'll lose my customer.

You'll lose some and you'll get others that are willing to pay that higher price point. Well, you get the right ones. Yeah. Yeah. He is, it's kind of a classic artist thing, though. It's a confidence thing, isn't it? He's an artist. I mean, he's a custom.

And, you know, a lot of times people that are, they're not as mercenary. They feel greedy if they ask for more. Yeah. If they're an artist. It's vulnerable. It's your work. Yeah. It's your talent.

And you're afraid somebody's going to tell you you're not worth that. And people tell me that all the time, but more of them tell me I'm worth it. So it's okay. I wouldn't pay $20 for a book that says get out of debt. That's okay. 20 million people did. So it's okay. I worked out for me.

Worked out for me. You're just just you know great don't do that i understand you can get the library i don't mind it's not making me mad so uh but you know it's it's that kind of thing you face that rejection and and so yeah he needs to have a the two of you need to sit on the back porch of the kids asleep cup of coffee and have a discussion about what he wants to be but this is is so interesting, Dave, because you and I have been talking about confidence a lot, how it is the precursor to so many different qualities, so many different results that you can have in your life.

And we're talking about a situation where a family, she would go back to work, he would work for a company, he would make less money, have less flexibility, all because this confidence hold up. Isn't that interesting? If you could fix that, if you could fix it at the confidence level it would have an actual dollar amount effect in their life and their freedom and their schedule and their flexibility and her you know her ability to work it's just so interesting how many things that affects yeah it really does making 25 000 now he could make 25 an hour which,000, working for somebody else. Or he can make $75,000 and own his own business.

Yeah. But that means he's tripling his prices. Yeah. And or his volume. And so, you know, you have to sit down and say, am I willing to do that? If not, if you're not willing to do the steps to get there, it's not going to happen overnight. But if you're not willing to do that, then close the business and take a job yeah because you're you're not 20 25 000 a year for six years and no improvement in the business means and you're not willing to do what it takes to fix that

then you need to close it right yeah i agree with you good christy right hanging out with me today here this is The Ramsey Show. Did you know that over 16 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.