The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Take a Job at a Company With a Questionable Culture? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: August 20, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by my colleague, Christy Wright. We're thrilled to be together today as we take your calls. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

We're here for you. If you've got a question, we're going to walk you through it. I promise you there is hope. There is a clear path for you to move forward. And so we are excited to have your call. 888-825-5225. Let's get it started this hour in Cincinnati, Ohio. Cynthia joins us there.

Cynthia, how can we help? Hi, how are you guys? We're having a blast. What's going on? Yeah. Well, I am the nerd in my family, and I am married to a very reasonable, free spirit. I like this setup. He sprung on me about six weeks ago that at some point in the near future, he would like to buy a used sports car in the $20,000 range. And I just kind of want to see

if we're in a position that we can do that for him. Well, walk us through where you are and why you might be a little nervous about it. Well, because I'm the nerd, that's why I'm nervous. He's 64, I'm 50, so he's close to retirement, about a four-year plan. Our assets are in the $950,000 range. Wow. And I think we can do it. I'm pretty sure we can. I just want to...

Well, what baby step are you on? We're like on seven. We don't have a mortgage. Cynthia. I'm going to let you take over here. Woman to woman. Christy, take it away. Cynthia, you already know what I'm going to say.

Cynthia, you're almost millionaires. You're on baby step seven, and you're asking about a used $20,000 car for fun for your husband who's almost retired. Cynthia, what am I going to say? Yes. You're going to say yes. Yes, I am. Now listen, I love that you acknowledged up front that you're the nerd and so you're nervous.

Like you connected those. It's not I'm the nerd and then in a separate conversation you're nervous. It's like, no, you're nervous because you're the nerd. Nerds are just nervous. Y'all are just nervous all the time. You don't like to spend money. Matt can want something. Matt's the nerd in our marriage, and he can want something, and we can have the money for it.

And he still does not like letting go of money. And that's a wonderful gift because y'all are on Baby Step 7 because of you, Cynthia. Listen, you are the ones that kept y'all focused and on track, so well done. But listen, you did that hard work and you've been responsible so that you can enjoy it. And so, yes. Can you afford it? Yes. Should you buy it? Yes. All the answers to all your questions are yes. Absolutely. Can we bump it up another couple thousand? Yes. Yes. And can I just add one thing? Christy's giving you great advice. Can I just add one little thing? Would you please enjoy it with him? Yes, have fun. Would you go, babe, I can't wait to go shopping for the $22,000 sports car.

We're crazy. And then let's go, let's put the top down, and I want my hair to blow all over the place. Like, you need to really celebrate. I can't drive a stick, so I don't even know if I can drive it. I didn't say that you were driving it. I said you just ride with him and enjoy it as a couple. You can ride. Yeah, that's awesome. Cynthia, you just ride with them and enjoy it as a couple. You can ride. Yeah, that's awesome.

Cynthia, you're great. Thank you so much for the call. What a fun question. Yeah, really fun. Those are the kind of calls you want because you want to show this is what life is like when you do save up and you're on Baby Step 7 and you have no debt. Yeah, you can spend your money. Please do.

Please have fun. Live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. So the live is a sports car. Have some fun. And you're giving away as well. So wonderful, wonderful call. And I think it's going to be really fun to see them. Take some pictures.

Share it. Really enjoy it, Cynthia. This is a big deal for your hubs, too. He's worked hard, and this is going to be a lot of fun. All right, let's go to Chicago, Illinois next. And Sean is there. Sean, how can we help? How are you guys doing? We're having a blast. What's going on? Oh, that's awesome. So I had

a question about moving out. So I'm 23 years old. I've actually never been on my own. I've actually always lived with my parents. And so far it was going well. I'm working full-time now. But I just wanted to ask you, based on my financial situation, would I be able to move out with the rising rental costs of apartments? Tell us your financial situation. Yeah, how much money do you make? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So I currently make around $56,000 annually. So after taxes and 401ks and benefits, I would make around like $40-ish. I do want to bring this up, but I did have student loans. I graduated last year and I had student loans and Dave would slap me in the face. I did buy

a car for $28,000 in November, but as of June, I paid both of those off and I'm completely debt-free, so I just wanted to know. Yeah, thank and I'm completely debt free. So I just wanted to know. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you very much. So I just wanted to know what the rising rental costs, it's just a little concerning about me going on my own and never had that experience. And, um, I just need to have like confidence whether I could actually afford it or not. So what do

you guys think? Yeah, Sean. So because you've never lived on your own, it's scary to you, but that's not going to be a reason that's going to stop so because you've never lived on your own, it's scary to you, but that's not going to be a reason that's going to stop you because you're a man, okay? You're not a boy. You're not a guy. You're not a dude. You're a man that makes a really good income that's debt-free. You should not be living at home. And so how you go about it, totally up to you. You could find a really, maybe a family friend that has a rental property. And so, you know, the landlord, you get a roommate, you ease yourself into this transition in any way that you want to, but absolutely you should move out. The rental costs are not a,

even a factor for me, because what you're going to do is you're going to find something you can afford because moving out is that important. It's not like, oh, well, I'll move out if I can find something, you know, that that's in my desired area and X, well, I'll move out if I can find something, you know, that's in my desired area and X, Y, Z, all this criteria. No, no, no. You're going to move out because you're a man that's debt-free with a good income that has no reason to be living at home whatsoever. And so we're going to go ahead and make that definitive.

And then within that assumption, we're going to say, okay, now what can we afford on your income? So you're going to look for, you now what can we afford on your income? So you're going to look for, you know, either an apartment or a house. Feel free to get a roommate. I've actually, in my 20s when I was single, I had multiple roommates, some of which I knew and some of which I was paired with and didn't know. And some were more awesome than others for sure, but all of it's a learning experience and none of it's forever. So if you want to split costs in that way, get a roommate, you can go about that. But absolutely, I think that this is a necessity

for you. And what it's going to do for you, Sean, aside from relieve your fears of being on your own, is it's going to give you a completely different level of dignity and independence and confidence that is going to pour over in every aspect of your life, from your job to dating to goals and your finances. I mean, this is so, so, so important for you. So yes, yes, you should move out and you figure out how to make the finances work. If you need to make more money or find a cheaper apartment roommate, you do that because it's time to go. Yeah. And Sean, this is almost a silly fear and you have to own that it's silly because you've just paid off a bunch of debt. You know how to be responsible with your money.

So I don't know what your specific fear is, but you need to own it. I'm afraid that I can't afford it. That's silly unless you try to rent a penthouse in downtown Chicago. But Christy just laid it out for you. And so you've got this, man. There's nothing to be afraid of. Be responsible, and you're going to be okay. Fly, little bird, fly. I also want to point out that, Be responsible, and you're going to be okay. Fly, little bird.

Fly. I also want to point out that, Christy. Don't let him call you a little bird. No. Go back to what I said. You're a man. I want to give him the man. I was going to point out that you just told him, man up in your really nice way.

I was like, wow. Ouch. Older sister, Christy, just put a boot to his hind end. I think he's packing as we speak. I can hear the tape ripping right now. Good stuff. Hey, she's Christie Wright. I'm Ken Coleman.

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Welcome back, America. You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague Christy Wright. And before we went to the break, we took a call from a young man who was 23 just paid off a bunch of debt makes about 40-ish a year his words and he was debating whether or not it was the right move

for him to move out and live on his own and you told him at least three times you're a man and then you had a really funny thought you're like oh I wish I had told him this so I thought i gotta tee you up to tell her well we ran out of time but here's what i was gonna say if you won't do it for you moving out is what i was referring to if you want to do it for you do it for the potential of a future spouse because let's say you meet some really awesome girl and she's like where do you live and you're like at home with mom and dad

that's not cool nobody thinks that's cool that's not cool in anybody's book so if you want to do it for you do it for the potential of an awesome girl you might meet hey i mean we see people get out of decks like man i wasn't really motivated for me but but maybe for my kids i feel like i need to do it or whatever even if it's for someone else i don't really care why you do the right thing just do the right thing i don't care if someone else motivates you just do the right thing, just do the right thing. I don't care if someone else motivates you. Just do the right thing. For whatever reason, why you were saying that, I had the image of failure to launch with Matthew McConaughey and Sarah Jessica Parker. Yes, I thought of that when I was talking to him. Fantastic movie. I thought of that exact movie.

Yeah. I was going to say get – You're Sarah Jessica. You're trying to get him out. I wanted to say get out of the house. I think your version was fly little bird. But either way, you've got to go. If it's a gentle small bird or me shoving you out, you've got to go.

It's time to go. So much fear around money. If you're struggling with money, it's easy to tell yourself that you'll deal with it later or you'll start fresh in the new year, but later rolls around and you still feel out of control. Stop. Decide right now that this is the last month that you'll ever worry about money again. If you do, we want to help. That's why for this month only, we're knocking $30 off the 12-month membership

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Text that to 33789. Let's go to Austin, Texas now. Sarah joins us. Sarah, how can we help? Hi there. How are you? So I worked the past five years with a nonprofit that I love.

I'm passionate about their mission. People, culture are great. There's plenty of work-life flexibility. And they're also a leader in an industry field that I love, which is women's health. But for the past months, I've been looking into roles

in the private sector because I wanted to get better compensated. And I just didn't see opportunity for advancement and promotion in that organization. So I recently got an offer from a firm to join as a consultant in an area of expertise, which is just focused on health, it would be a really big salary bump, like 70% more salary. And the benefits are pretty good. The hiring manager who essentially recruited or poached me seems very smart and fair and would allow me some work from home flexibility. But for some reason, there's part of me that's, you know, hesitant to take it.

The company has a reputation definitely for long hours and high stress and, you know, overloaded plate of responsibilities. And there's a little bit of ambiguity in my projects or responsibilities. And I've taken a title cut, too. So while I'm excited about the salary, there's something still just holding me back. I don't know what it is. Everyone around me says take it. You know, I'm crazy. Well, no, you do know what it is.

You just laid it out pretty beautifully. So here's what I would tell you. Since you were recruited, this hiring manager came to you. I think it's a secondary conversation. I think it's one more conversation, and you've got to do this with humility. And it's all about posture, your body posture, the tone of your voice, but you go, Hey, listen, I'm excited about this. I've heard some things about the culture here. And I don't see that with you. But I've heard some things about the culture I'd like to ask you to address.

So you didn't accuse here. You just said, I've heard some things I'd love for you to address it. That's the first step. The second thing I want you to do is talk about the ambiguity. Hey, I'd like to ask a few more questions. Don't say, what you've told me about my job is ambiguous. What you want to say is, hey, I've got a few more questions here. I think that's the grown-up way to do that. I think you've got a wonderful spirit about you. I think if you stay humble there and watch how you handle yourself with the words you use

and body language, I think a healthy leader is going to answer those concerns. I would not walk away yet, but I think you have to listen to those concerns. I think those are all legitimate things. But to hear that, I'm just curious, where'd you hear that? What's the reputation? Where are you getting that? Well, it's just these types of firms have a reputation for a lot of stress, and I've seen on Glassdoor and places like that that it is definitely high-stress and high-stakes business. Yeah, but I've also heard that Christy Wright was Dave's daughter, and that's a rumor, too. Nobody goes on Glassdoor to sing praises. Yeah, that's just not—

Nobody happy with their position goes on glass door so let me i want to jump in on one thing sarah because i i hear a little bit in your voice that was me about 13 years ago okay i worked for a non-profit for three years coming out of college i believed that in order to do work that matters you had to do work in non-profit okay that's what i believed as a 22 year old i thought i, I thought all the for profit companies are bad, evil, greedy. All the nonprofit companies are good, holy, care about people. So I wanted to do work that mattered. So I went and worked in a nonprofit. After burning out working 80 hours a week, not making hardly any money, I felt called to do something different. But I was so nervous to move outside the nonprofit world because of my beliefs about these cultures. Now, I set that up to set you up to say,

are these companies really bad? Or do you maybe have some underlying beliefs about what the corporate world represents? Not necessarily that you know, this company's bad. Yeah, no, I don't. I don't think the company is bad. It's just, you know, I guess there's, well, I'll add this. I think my long-term goal is to become a recognized expert and consultant for women's health. I love helping women, especially. Great. But I've never taken a plunge and, you know, actually done that.

So I'm wondering, like, maybe I did, do I stick to my current job or have flexibility in time to start something on the side or maybe take this job, make some good money and then, you know, go and start my own thing. Sarah. One or two years. Sarah. Yeah. Christy gave you great perspective. I want to go back to exactly what I told you.

You've got to sit down with this leader and you've got some, you don't even really have reputation stuff that you've heard. So I think you just address the work hours, expectations, flexibility, and some of the things that you have already said. I'm not 100% sure about my job description and what's expected of me. Just have that conversation and then trust your gut. You know what else you can do, Sarah? When you ask some questions, whether it's to the hiring manager

or if you're able to even ever meet with potential your other coworkers or managers, other people that are in the company, when you ask questions, you can ask questions in a really interesting way that get you the answer you want.

And so you can ask a question like this. Okay, I've got two questions for you. One is what's your favorite part about working here and what's your favorite part about working here? And what's your least favorite? Because everyone has one. I have a favorite thing about here and my least favorite about here. Everybody has that about every company in the world.

But that might give you insights if they say, hey, we work 80 hours a week. Okay. It's a high stress environment. That may actually, in a creative way, find out what you want to find. Another one. Yeah, I tell people all the time on the show, ask the question, describe the type of person that wins in this company. I like that.

Throw that at them. That's just, and again, but here's the thing. I think you've identified what you need to talk about. But I will tell you, I don't think you have any really concrete evidence that you need to be worried about. But go at it that way and then let the answer come back your way and then decide. But the fact that this is uh work you want to do and this puts you on the ladder in the women's health space

from an expertise standpoint i it feels really really good to me but i also want you to go back one more time uh but if you feel good after going back this to me is a no-brainer the extra money is is gravy uh and christy again that's what you and I, we both preach this. Yep. At the end of the day, money is never going to be the ultimate reason why you stay in a place. It can't be. It's got to be meaning. And so there you go.

Great stuff. Thank you so much, Sarah. Excited for you, by the way. You're on the precipice of something really, really exciting out there. Thank you so much for the call. All right. She is Christy Wright. I'm Ken Coleman. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. All right, America, welcome back.

This is The Ramsey Show, where America talks about their life and their money. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Christy Wright. We are here taking your calls this hour. It is a free phone call, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. And I look out over there, Christine, on the debt-free stage in the lobby is Lindsay. Hello, Lindsay. Hi. How are you?

I'm good. How are you? Good. So you're debt-free, huh? I am. Where are you from? Sacramento, California. Oh, wow.

Did you fly or drive? We flew. Okay. Very nice. And we'll learn more about the big crew over there. I see a nice cheering section for you. Absolutely. All right, so give us the numbers here.

How much debt did you pay off? Okay, so in total, it was $24,360.36. Awesome. To the penny. We got it. 36 cents. And how long did that take? So overall, it took me 17 and a half months. I had gotten divorced last year, moved home.

And so that became just my debt. So yeah, in total 17 and a half months. But because I'd gone into storm mode, I obviously was just making minimum payments. Once I got to push play after getting a full-time job, it took me 13 and a half months to complete everything. Okay. And what was the range of income? It was about $27,000 up to $37,000. Wow. What do you do?

Well, I am finally back down to just one job. I'm a head cashier. Oh, nice. Yeah. Awesome. Fantastic. So I think we heard a little bit about what made this happen here. Give us a little bit more of the back story there.

Did you know about Dave Ramsey, Ramsey Solutions, this whole idea of financial peace? I did. Actually, it started with my brother-in-law. I'm not sure how he found it, but he had kind of started us all on this journey. My sister got out of debt and then got my parents on it. They've gotten themselves out of debt except for their house. I unfortunately did not pay as close of attention initially that I should have. My actual, actually my ex and I had started, we'd gone through financial peace together a couple of years ago and then the divorce happened. And so then it was now up to me to finish. So

it's been a long journey, but it's been super worth it. Well, talk a little bit about those early stages when you were finally sitting down to look at the numbers and what debt you were responsible for. Talk about how you got yourself just motivated and excited to attack this debt and really work the plan, not just like hear it in theory, like you were saying you'd heard before, but like actually do something different. Why was it different this time? This time was my sister um she had had a very big heart-to-heart talk with me in january of this year um and she had just given me you know helping me set goals um to kind of get through the year and get through my debt and we realized that i was not focusing enough on my debt um i was trying to stretch my money too thin.

And so we had kind of agreed, okay, I need to get a second job so I can get this done with. I wanted to do more things with my debt. I'd love to spoil my nephew. And I couldn't with debt looming over my head. So she kind of helped me with that. And that's really what changed was I got the second job, worked a bunch of hours. Um, and just, I got, as it got closer and closer, um, I saw the light at the end of the tunnel. I ended up actually getting in, um, right at the beginning of July, I got a, um, a full-time job. I'd gotten paid from that and realized I had the money in my account. Wow. And so I just, I came home from work actually from my second job. I was, um, coming home from work that morning and I'd come home came home from work, actually from my second job, I was coming home from work

that morning and I'd come home, told my dad, I'm like, oh my gosh, I think I can do this right now. Wow. So we double check my numbers, make sure that I was, you know, I was going to be fine financially after that. And so I just, yeah, I sent in the payment and that was that. How big was the payment? Last one was just under 3000.

Oh, wow. How does it feel now? Weird. But no, just under 3000. Oh, wow. How does it feel now? Weird. Um, but no, it feels amazing. It's been about a month that I've been debt free and I, I don't, I think this kind of helps it feel more surreal. I'm still waiting for my car title to get to me in the mail. Cause that was the last debt that I had. Um, but it feels amazing to just, I mean, that financial piece, that is a real thing. I love that I can, um, not have to worry about where my money is. Yeah. Well, and especially for you in this season of life, you are, you are giving yourself

a clean slate, a fresh start, a new chapter in every area of your life and money is just a piece of it. But man, the freedom that you feel because you don't have that debt hanging over you. So now when you start to look at what do you want to do for work or what goals do you want to set or what does this new chapter look like? You don't have any of that dragging you down. You've got all the options in the world. That's amazing. What's the secret? What do you think was so key to help you stick with it and do it? The budget. I know everybody says that, but it's absolutely true. And for me, the other big part was my, um, my cheering squad. Um, having an accountability partner as a single woman was

very important because when my ex and i were doing it together we were accountability partners right um but on my own i mean i've got four amazing um accountability partners my parents my sister and brother-in-law they are cheering me on you know really helped when i had questions of like hey should i do this um you know because i am a free spirit i like to spend my money yeah um so they would help me reign that in um a ton yeah well good would help me reign that in a ton. Yeah. Well, good for you for getting that because a lot of people don't because it's awkward or because they really don't want the accountability. They may say they do, but they don't really.

And you did and you got it. So well done. Yeah. What was the hardest part of this journey? I know you worked a lot of hours. Is there a moment where you can look back on this journey and go, this was really, really tough, but I pushed through and on the other side now, I'm glad I did. Absolutely. When I had gotten that second job, so my full-time job, I work the closing shift. So I'm at work until 1030. And my part-time job, I was working 5 a.m. to 9 a.m. Wow.

So that was really rough. I'd go to work in the morning, come home, take a nap, eat, get ready for work and go again. Um, so about probably halfway through that, um, it was, I was exhausted. I was really ready to be done, but I wasn't, I wasn't done with the debt yet. Um, and so I, I had struggled. There were some, some weeks that it was like, I'm just going to do my minimum 12 hours at my second job. Um, and then there was like, okay, I want to be done, which means I have to work more. Yeah, but for short term. Yeah.

Short term sacrifice to be in this position now. Yeah. Love that. So, so good. And you mentioned those cheerleaders, those accountability folks. They're with you. I want to point out they're sitting just to your right as we look at you through the window. And they've all got t-shirts and you were kind of the inspiration behind that.

Yours says, be weird for those that can't see the youtube channel you know and and so uh you know that's really really exciting too to kind of be here with them they're here today they're going to celebrate with you absolutely yeah it's total you know family um effort um like i said they're all out of debt as well so we've each got individually something different on our shirts um but and then on the back of it it says debt is a thing of my past. So, yeah, it's been a lot of fun. Well, you've been through a lot. Yep. Not just the debt-free journey, but the relationship break.

And I know that that has got to be wild just to kind of deal with the newness of that. And you're just so strong. Yeah. And you're inspiring a lot of people right now. And so we are so grateful. One of the things we want to do for you, we've got a copy of Dave's book, The Legacy Journey. Which is, that's the next step for you. To live and give like no one else.

And then we're also going to give you a copy of Dave's book, Total Money Makeover. For you to gift to somebody else that you think might need that. So we want to give that to you. So you're ready to go? It's been a journey. You're ready to go? It's been a journey. You're ready to go? I am. Okay, good. Well, you can tell. All right. So here is Lindsay from Sacramento, California. She paid off $24,000 in 17 and a half months, making $27,000 to $37,000. Lindsay, take it away. Let's hear your debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I your debt-free scream three two one i'm debt-free there it is she did it mom dad sis looking on they all got the theme t-shirts christy that's pretty cool stuff i love it i love

it and and what an important time in her life to do this it would have been so easy to go through that divorce to go through one of the hardest things I'm sure she's ever gone through. And then just kind of take your foot off the gas, curl up in the fetal position, be like, I just want to be sad for a few years and just kind of do what I want to. You'll buy a bunch more stuff. Therapy, spending. Yeah, I mean, seriously,

that would be a very normal way to cope with that. And instead, she channeled that energy, channeled that motivation, and was like, I'm going to give myself a fresh start. I'm going to tackle this myself. I'm going to take care of it. I'm going to take responsibility for what is mine and get it out of here. And as a result, all of the fruits of her hard work have paid off,

and she's standing there debt-free with a whole new chapter in front of her and all the options in the world. Man, what an impressive, impressive woman. She is. The best is yet to come. If you're out there in that situation, you can do it. Lindsay did it. Stay with it.

It's always worth it. That's right. My colleague is Christy Wright. I'm Ken Coleman. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. Don't move. More coming right up. Welcome back, America. You are listening to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined here in studio by my colleague, Christy Wright. As we take your questions, it is a toll-free call. 888-825-5225. Blinds.com's 100% satisfaction guarantee means even if you mismeasure or pick

the wrong color, which by the way, Christy, that would be me, they'll remake your blinds for free. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best deal. Today's question comes from Noah in Colorado. My husband and I have two young kids. We have no debt and make about $200,000 between the two of us for the first time in our lives. We make enough to live comfortably and save for retirement. We've gone from $25,000 to $300,000 in savings

over the last three years. My primary job is done remote, and I'm considering taking on a second remote job, which would add about $120,000 in income. I do not want to work more hours, but I believe I can work more efficiently and get good results. I want to do this so we can have the option to retire early and spend more time with our kids is having two remote jobs at the same time unethical and am i setting myself up for failure christy i love this question because i actually reported on this on the ken coleman show this week this is a new thing there is a huge movement of people that are working two remote jobs at the same time it's happening more and more so the answer the question is uh it is unethical. It is wrong if both companies aren't aware of it. Now, if for some crazy,

strange reason, both companies are going, yeah, we're fine with you knocking down salaries or whatever the pay is for two companies, then of course it's okay. But for one to not know about the other, yeah, I don't think that's right i don't at all even though it's doable and people are doing it okay here's what i heard in this question and tell me if maybe i'm i'm reading into it tonight here's what i heard they said i don't want to work more hours yeah but i believe i could work more efficiently so so if you hadn't asked me i didn't know about that study and i know you're putting if you, is it unethical to have two jobs? No, people have two jobs all the time, whether they're remote or out in the workforce, but you have to physically be present and work those hours, right?

You have to actually do those hours. If you're planning to work from home and not actually work those hours and just collect the check, then of course it's unethical, regardless of the other company, because you're planning to collect money for work you're planning to not do my point so this is not possible no no no now let me let's use an analogy here well but it is if you work if you work 80 hours a week i mean if you if you work the hours and the companies know then i don't know why you couldn't do it i know but that's what i said the companies gotta know yeah if the companies are right but even if the companies know you still have to actually work the hours yeah and you cannot imagine that you're just not going to work and are going to collect a paycheck. Let me give you an example. So, Ken, when I registered for my first seminary class this summer, it said, you know, the curriculum said every class requires about 15 hours a week.

Yeah. And in my mind, I'm going like, but does it? But does it? Could I maybe get this done in like i don't know seven to eight like that was mine no ken it's really 15 hours a week so like it's forced me to make time in my schedule for this as much as i would love for it to only be seven hours noah if this job says it's a 40 hour a week job then unless you want to work 40 hours then yes it's unethical you're not gonna because you're asking if you can basically to work 40 hours, then yes, it's unethical. Which you're not going to do. Because you're asking if you can basically not work those hours they're asking for.

That is lying and cheating and stealing. And yes, it's lying. But if you want to work those 40 hours and you want to work 80 hours a week, by all means, take that second job as long as they know. Yeah, which she's not going to do. So that's why I said what I said. These people are doing this, Christy.

It's crazy. There's these people online and they're like encouraging people to do this, and they're cheating companies. They're like taking two full-time jobs and not working full-time because they're at home. It's unbelievable. I can't believe it, but it's real because here's the deal. This is what remote work does. I'm not anti-remote work, but without accountability, you can want someone to work 40 hours a week, but they could probably do it in 20.

Well, that's a leadership problem. You don't disagree with me on this. I know you don't. I don't disagree about that. The company's got to know about it. You can't take two full-time jobs. 100%. But I'm saying if they say we have a position, there's a 40-hour position, but we're going

to give you three minutes of work, well, then you don't have a full-time position. You need to fix your position and give them more work. But that's not what's going on. No, no, no. The point is people are not telling both companies that they're knocking down right double the salary so it is this is a thing though this is not a rare question is what i'm pointing well but then it's good that you point that out because we need to take we need people to be very clear on our stance if you plan to work two remote jobs and not work the hours required by two remote jobs that both jobs know about, you are lying, cheating, and stealing.

You're a liar. By definition, you're a liar. So I just want to go ahead and be clear so everyone knows. But if you want to work both those jobs, all the hours, tell both jobs, sure, collect both salaries if you do the work for it. Otherwise, you're lying. Yeah. Okay.

Absolutely. We're on the same page there. Yeah. Yeah. But I get why people are doing it because again there's no oversight how do they get away with that though like how do they have because there's no oversight there's no you're not in an office where somebody can see what you're doing and so you're doing the emails you're doing the meetings is it is it just they don't have 40 hours

worth of deliverables to where anybody would know oh they're slipping on their work i just can't imagine yeah so there's just not, the work is not, it's not really that. They're able to get the job done to the point that their leadership isn't firing them over, at least at this point. Now again, this is a relatively new phenomenon.

There's two dudes who went online and created a whole website. I don't want to give them any love. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I don't like where it's going. Right. But the bottom line is, is if you can get away with it,

but like she said at the last part of the question, A, is it unethical? Yes, based on what we said. And B, am I setting myself up for failure? Yeah. Yeah, personal failure. By the way, they make $300,000.

Excuse me, they make $200,000. I mean, they've got $300,000 in savings. Relax. Would you go get two full-time jobs in person? If you wouldn't, then you don't need to take two in-house. That's exactly the point. And she wouldn't. But there's people that work two full-time jobs all the time. That wouldn't, then you don't need to take two in-house. That's exactly the point. And she wouldn't. But there's people that work

two full-time jobs all the time. That's fine. I have no problem with that. But as long as you are fulfilling what is required of you. Right, right. Good stuff. We've beat that horse to oblivion.

Well, I think it's good to call out because I didn't realize this was a thing. Oh, it's happening. But in addition to the fact that it's a thing, yeah, your character's at stake here your integrity your character your yeah yeah let's go to andrea who joins us in tucson arizona andrea how can we help

hi so i am a graduate student and i am on baby step four um but i am only making about $21,000 and so for me to invest 15% of my income I wouldn't be able to afford my four walls. So I'm kind of at the point where I want to invest in my retirement but at the same time graduate school is taking up all of my time. And is it bad not to invest in my retirement right now because I'm investing in my future? No, your future is absolutely the priority here. You're a little bit different situation, Andrea, because you're a college student. And so, of course, you would always need to take care of your four walls first anyway. But the goal would be that later in life, you can take care of the four walls and invest in baby step four. But right now, your college education is the priority. So not only do you want to cover your four walls, you want to have some cushion

between you and any life transitions. So whether that's next semester's tuition, books, transportation, all that stuff. So no, that is investing right now, if you cannot afford it, above and beyond your regular expenses is not a priority for you. And that's okay because it will be when you get to that stage. When you're out of college,

when you can afford that on top of your four walls, that'll be the time to start that. And you're still so young, you will still be starting investing very early. So don't be discouraged by losing time there because you said it perfectly. You're investing in your future, and that's what you should be doing as a college student. So, no, you're doing great.

Yeah, love that question. And, you know, the reality is that so many young people don't realize how much progress they're going to make, even if they're coming out of grad school. They're like, oh, it's not. I mean, if you're starting to invest in your mid-20s and you do it the way Ramsey Solution tells you to do, I mean, it's going to be unbelievable. I just read an article today, 401Ks, Christy, all-time high. Oh, awesome.

That's amazing. So you know how we talk about just stay on the roller coaster ride, don't freak out. I mean, the bottom line is you're going to make up a lot of ground. So I love that advice. But it makes good sense. I love the question. I love that she's thinking about that. Unbelievable.

Yeah. If you're in college and you're debt-free and your priority is staying debt-free, paying for college, then right there you're ahead of the vast majority of college students who are deeply in debt with student loans or credit card debt or whatever. So you're doing great, Andrea. You're doing awesome. Stay on that track. Get through this college education, and then you can start looking at investing when you've got more income to do so. Yeah. I can't believe the hour is done.

Goes by fast. Time flies when you're having fun. Fun Friday. And we are having fun. Hey, I want to thank our producer, Ben Hill. I want to thank our associate producer and call screener, Kelly Daniel, and my colleague, Christy Wright. Always fun to be with you. And America, thank you. You are the reason we do the show. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer for The Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about an event, product, or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry.

We list everything you've heard about during this episode in the podcast show notes section or head to theramseyshow.com. Thanks for listening.