The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Take a Pay Cut to Work a Career That I Love? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: May 28, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life. I'm Ken Coleman, and I'm joined by my colleague Anthony O'Neill. We are Ramsey Personalities, and we host shows on the Ramsey Network as well. But we are with you and for you this hour. 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225 is the number to jump in. And we are going to talk about money, which, of course, you've come to know and expect that here on the Ramsey Show. We'll talk about your relationships with young people, and we'll talk about your work, working on purpose. Both Anthony and I have made steps, and as part of our journey here at Ramsey Solutions, stepping out in faith, on purpose, to do what we were born to do. So we'll help you on anything that you need. We always have a great time together.

How are you, sir? Hey, man, I'm doing well, man. You ready to roll? Hey, let's do it. All right, 888-825-5225. Let's go to Armin, who joins us in Los Angeles. How can we help? Hey, guys, how are you doing?

Oh, we're living the dream. What's going on? So before I ask my question, I just wanted to give some context. So I'm currently 17 years old, and I want to pursue a career of becoming a corporate lawyer. I'm about to finish my last semester at a community college, and I have saved up about $7,000. And so the university that I'm transferring to is UCLA. And although it's great and all,

I am, however, faced with a pretty big dilemma. And so I live 30 miles away from UCLA. So I'm contemplating on if I should buy a car with the money I have saved up, or if I should choose to live there in a dorm or an apartment, which will be a big financial investment. And so the benefit of what I'm thinking of commuting is I'll be able to keep my part-time job at a law firm. And the good thing

about that is because I want to become a corporate lawyer, the experience that I gained from there is crucial. And so I've also spoken with various attorneys at my workplace who have gone to UCLA and counselors and professors, and they've all said the same thing. And keep in mind, I've spoke to these people who have also been to UCLA. experience, and essentially I have to live there to get that experience, and that it's a very crucial part of my development as a human being because you get to socialize with these intellectual colleagues. So I'm just torn. Yeah. Armin, let me ask you this, and my colleague's ready to go.

He's ready. How much more expensive will it be? You told us it's a good bit more expensive. I want to know how much, and then do you even have the ability to do that, despite all these wonderful lawyers telling you it's a wonderful thing to do? So they're saying, well, obviously I'm going to have to incorporate some student loan debt with that, and UCLA has given me a grant of $15,000, which covers my tuition. But the side effect of that is it's another $15,000, which they've given me.

So you can't afford it. You can't afford it. Basically, yeah. Ayo? Yeah, man. You know, Armand, I want to be respectful because you sound like a very young, bright man. And it sounds like you're confused because you sound like a very young bright man and it sounds like you're confused because you are being misled uh by people around you oh my god it's just an

experience well i want you to really think about this your experience is going to cost you about 45 to 50 000 in debt and then you're going to have another journey of an experience for 20 years after that to pay it off what kind of experience is that crap okay and so for me you know now hold on bro i got you i i want to i want to help you and i want to go to ucla i'm from oceanside california so i hear you on ucla i think it's a great opportunity i want to be honest with you. But the experience of racking up debt is an experience that you're not going to be a part of. I have no problem saying that. Now, talk to me about this $7,000 in a commute. Yeah, so the $7,000 in commute, from my part-time job at the law firm, I incorporated about $7,000.

Cool. So. Are you living at home right now? Yeah, with my parents. What kind of car do you have right now? I don't have a car. Okay. All right, cool.

So let me get this straight. If you spend $7,000 and go buy a quality car, you can stay at home, keep your part-time job that generates income for you, that also could possibly set you up for a full-time job later on once you graduate and pass the bar exam and stuff like that with the law firm. You're building relationships, and you can go to school debt-free because you're getting your tuition covered from the $15,000. Is that story correct, yes or no? Yes, that's correct. Then, young man, that's an experience that you need to be going for. Because not only are you getting a paycheck, young man, you're getting a paycheck, but then Ken talks about this in his book, The Proximity Principle. You are already in proximity of lawyers, and you never know what they can do to help you through.

Ken, that's what I want. I'd rather be around the proximity of my future than the proximity of debt. What the heck? And let me just add to that. Let me give you a different experience that you may not have a vision for. All these lawyers, see, they're not thinking about your financial future. They're just telling you about all of their memories. And they did it the way everybody else does it. But, Armin, listen to me.

When you stay with your mom and dad, and you get that $7,000 car, whatever you're going to buy, $5,000, whatever, and you keep going, you don't accrue debt, and you get out of UCLA, and you're now working for that law firm or another law firm because you're way ahead of the game, as Anthony said, guess what?

You can have all kinds of experiences when you travel around the globe with that fat lawyer salary that has no debt. You're sipping from coconuts anywhere you want to go, brother. So I've got to tell you something. UCLA's pretty cool. I've seen the campus AO. That's your neck of the woods. It's a gorgeous experience.

But I've got to tell you something. It's not that great it's not as great as the vacations you're going to be able to take the house you're going to be able to afford because you have no debt and because you're a rocking lawyer so ao uh and if he was on my show uh what would you what would you do i would add this in there you know james may you know fire me on the next segment oh boy please don't do that because i really want to do the show with you i do too okay but when you're young when're debt-free, when you're a lawyer making that kind of money, you talking about sipping coconut?

You sipping coconuts with a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful woman next to you. Oh, I should have known the single guy was going there. Right. Right. Yeah. There's a lot of great experiences in his future. Yes, there is. If he decides to stay at home and drive that car, paid for car, by the way.

Oh, brother. That's a different caliber of woman right there, boy. Okay. I don't know what to do with that. But the advice still is the same. And here's the thing. Here's what the lesson is from this call. There are some well-meaning people who are very successful,

who will give young people bad advice. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, it's a great experience. Go take out a loan. You've got to live on campus, man. You've got to be a part of the party scene at UCLA. Trust me, you're never going to forget that. And these are well-meaning people, but it's just awful advice.

Awful, awful, awful advice. Ugh. But that's why we're here, A.O. Yes, sir. Alright, listen. A.O.'s warmed up, as you can tell. We're ready to go. It's a free call. 888-825-5225. Dial it right now. We're here for you. Don't move. More of the Ramsey Show right around

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That's what I focus on on The Ken Coleman Show as a part of the Ramsey Network. My colleague Anthony O'Neill, new podcast, The Table with Anthony O'Neill. It's been a big hit on YouTube. Now he's bringing it to you in podcast form as well. So search The Table with Anthony O'Neill on YouTube as well as anywhere podcasts are available. You can check out The Ken Coleman Show again, YouTube as well, anywhere podcasts are available, SiriusXM, and your local talk radio station. So let's get to it, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225.

Let's go to Sacramento, California, where Jack joins us. Jack, how can we help? Hey, guys. How are you guys doing? We're living the dream. What are you doing? I'm doing all right. So first off, I just want to say thank you guys so much for the work you guys do.

I listen to you every day. I love it. So thank you for the work you do. Thank you, sir. So I'm going to give a little context before I ask my question. So my wife and I make about $81,000 total household income, but she actually got a promotion and she's going to go up to, we're going to go up to about $96,000 next month. However, I work in the nonprofit world

and I've been in the nonprofit world ever since I graduated college about seven years ago. And I would like to continue to keep working in the health and human services field. However, I'm looking for a new job. And one of the things I'm struggling with is that I would like to increase my income and increase my shovel, but I need a little help knowing how to do that. I've been looking for jobs, and a lot of it needs some sort of like master's degree or they get paid about the same amount as I do. I'm looking to stay in the area that I'm at, and so I just kind of need some guidance on that. Okay, well, so we wouldn't want to pursue any kind of higher education like a master's if it's going to pay you the same amount of money.

And so it depends on what you're looking to advance to. So in this health and human services nonprofit world, am I hearing that? That's the combination? Yeah, and so I've worked in a variety of settings with kids in foster care, health insurance now. So I do a variety of things, but I want to primarily work with youth or helping kids, mentor kids, like a variety of things, but I want to primarily work with youth or helping kids, mentor kids, like those kinds of things. That's what I'm really passionate about.

Okay. So let's focus on that. That's where we look first. See, we must focus on the work that we want to do, and then we figure out the income situation. It doesn't flip, okay? Because I can tell you, I get calls every day, A.O., on the Ken Coleman Show, where people just took a promotion six months ago, a year ago. They took it for money, and they're miserable. And again, there's all kinds of data out there. You know, two-thirds of people would rather take a pay cut to do meaningful work. Are you kidding me?

So this is real. So, Jack, because you're very, very clear, you want to help young people, underserved young people. You know those people, and you know the people you want to serve, and you know where they are. You know who's serving them, true or false? That's true. A lot of the places sometimes pay less than I do,

so I'm looking at jobs like at the state level as well. So now you've done the work. You've really answered your own question. You must first focus on who is it that you want to serve and you know who they are and you know who's serving them. And so you are going to be somewhat limited is to your options based on the finances. Now you said you guys are going to be combined 96,000. What's your cut of that? Once your wife gets that promotion, what's your cut? So I make about 50,000. What's your cut of that once your wife gets that promotion? What's your cut? So I make about $50,000. Okay. So if you're looking at working for the state and serving young people that are underserved or whatever that situation looks like,

whether that's in the foster care or in maybe welfare type programs, whatever that is, you know what that is. Are there positions, if you get in and then eventually move up, that will allow you to make 50 or more? Yes, there have been some. Like I said, I've looked at the state level, but I also wouldn't mind staying at the nonprofit level. I think the problem I run into is sometimes the culture hasn't been great or there's been good pay but not good culture or vice versa. Right. So here's the deal. This is called I got to go out and I got to look. I got to examine. I got to talk to people.

We don't judge any future opportunities on what we faced in the past. You can't get discouraged when you go, okay, I found something that looks pretty good, but well, the income's good, culture's not good. Well, I just don't think i'm gonna find it and the question here that jack's asking is how do i do it i wish i had some super deep answer but it doesn't exist the simple way of how is i keep turning over rocks here's the example i use yeah uh i have been walking along with my wife at times and uh the women out there in the lobby will know what i'm talking about so will the dudes and all of a sudden the back of her earring falls off or something and the earring just falls down

you know it's kind of like what's going on and when it falls down what do we do and we just immediately look down and we go where'd it go and we we know it fell down and we stop we pause we go i'm in this area i know it fell in this area it has to be in this area true or false has to be there so what do we do i know you don't know this because you don't do many moonlight walks on the beach uh but anyway the point is is that this is the same thing jack knows the area he wants to be in true true true so the opportunities he knows the area so the opportunities they're there in this area so what do i do just like we're looking for that back of earring or whatever uh turning over rocks if we're in a rocky path.

We're just looking. We're just turning over. We're looking at everything, examining. I mean, we're down on our hands and knees looking for the back of that earring. And I think that's the thing here. This is intensity. This is absolute intensity and intentionality to look for what I'm looking for. And here's the reality.

You're going to be limited at times. But if you're limited to $50,000, you're limited to $50,000. Here's what we know about teachers. The median salary across this nation for teachers is about $60,000. That's the median. But we also know from our largest millionaire study ever that Ramsey Solutions did that the third largest group of everyday millionaires, net worth millionaires, were teachers. So don't tell me you can't make enough money, the income you need, and the impact you want. 844, excuse me, that's the wrong number.

That's my number, 888-825-5225. Have you ever done that? Say the wrong phone number? No, because I don't have a phone number. You don't have a phone number on the table? No, can I get one, Jeff? Because you're guest only? Do millennials even use the phone number? No, because I don't have a phone number. You don't have a phone number on the table? No, can I get one, Jeff? Because you're guest only? Do millennials even use the phone anymore besides texting?

Wow. So Dave uses the phone. We use the phone on the Ken Coleman Show. We text. John Deloney does. Yeah, I said besides texting. Oh, besides texting. Yes.

John Deloney's not a millennial. Yeah, that's true. John and I are in our 40s. All right. I get it. I get it. But you know, a's true. John and I are in our 40s. All right. I get it. I get it. But you know, a serious question. I hear that often within the millennials.

You know, man, well, the pay is good, but the culture is whack. Or the culture is so good, but the pay is whack. And they always say, I'm looking for good pay, good culture, good people. And your expertise, because I'm not the expert in this field, can you find all three of those? Sure you can. So do you advise people to this field, can you find all three of those? Sure you can. So do you advise people to only go to where you find all three of those? Well, I tell you to try to get there. Now, there may be a season where if you're on your career ladder and you go, all right, here's the deal.

This is giving me the pay and the experience that I need. It's not a great culture, but if I know I'm not there long term, I can bite my lip. I can be a big boy, put on my big boy pants, and I can put up with it. As long as it's not an abusive situation. But we talk about this all the time. You can be in the right role. I'm glad you bring this up. You can be in the right role.

What you were designed to do, I call it the sweet spot, where you use your talent to perform your passion to accomplish your mission. but in an awful culture you could be in your dream job and after about six weeks of walking to that awful culture you can go oh i can't do this anymore so that's doing the right thing in the wrong place and what you want to do is you want to be in the right role in the right place in other words the right seat on the right bus okay and that's what you got to go from by the way that is possible now i'm glad you brought this up ao because you you've got to go for. And by the way, that is possible. Now, I'm glad you brought this up, A.O., because you've been in the church world. You've worked for some big-time churches. Absolutely. Where there are great positions, but maybe the culture, whatever the situation is.

But here's the deal. It may take a little longer to find that, but it is always worth it. Yes. Absolutely always worth it. Hey, we just mentioned the table. So tell people why they need to listen to the show before we head to break. We are having an intentional conversation about how to get out of debt, how to build wealth, how to have successful relationships. So come on over there.

I challenged Will Smith recently. You did? Oh, yeah, on the workout challenge. I just posted it on my IG. Go check it out. On his dad bod thing? You went after him? Oh, I went after him.

I really hope he responds. I hope he does, too. I hope he makes my life to see you and he working out together. Oh, it's going to go good. All right, we'll see what happens. Hey, let me tell you what else is going to happen. We're coming right back. Don't move. This is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague Anthony O'Neill, and we are here taking your questions, 888-825-5225. Questions about money, questions about your work. Hey, do you want to enjoy going to work? Do you want to make more income? Hey, you got some relationship and single questions. Oh, A.O.'s here. He's our designated You know, you didn't set

out to be this, but because you are the only Ramsey personality right now that happens to be single, I know you love when I share that information out there. I mean, you know, you kind of got the edge on that. You talk about it on the table. I mean, listen, I mean, there's something wrong being single. No. Who said there was? Right. So I got to take all those questions of you.

Oh, thank you. So any of those questions, hey, I'm in a relationship. We're not married. We're not seeing eye to eye. AO is on duty. Hey, man, listen. And I sit here and I watch and I go, I'm the old married guy, and I just let him roll. Yeah, man.

So we'll take those questions, too. Absolutely. You take the married questions, and I'll take the single questions. And I'm not the relationship expert, but I can give you some advice from things I've learned during my life. Yes, you can. You can take money and relationships on from that unique perspective. Yes. I've been married so long, I just say, yes, dear.

Do you know what I mean? See? We just hit 23 years. That's a joke. I would never become a yes man. Oh, he says that. And all the married dudes out in the lobby like okay we'll see how that

look at this guy in the front row he was like I don't know man look at him right there there we go by the way congratulations just finished his PhD that's an educated brother that's a yes man

I love that hey you's a yes man. I love that. Hey, you need to find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code Ramsey to get the best deal. Today's question, Ayo, comes from Calista in Nebraska. She says, I'm a dental hygienist, but I'm considering getting a bachelor's degree in something that would be more fulfilling and give me more opportunities. I'd love to be a teacher, but the pay is not the best. I've also considered nursing school because of the potential

income, but I wonder if I would end up feeling unfulfilled again. Do I choose my career based on finances or adjust my finances for the career? The answer is and always will be if you ask me, B. You must always choose what you were created to do and you adjust your lifestyle to that.

I mentioned this earlier. Teachers who across the nation, the median income is $60,000. They are the third largest group of everyday millionaires, which means they live on less than they make. They are very fulfilled. In other words, they've got plenty of income because they're working for impact.

And I say this on the Ken Coleman Show every day when I start the show. You were created to contribute. You were created to work. You were created to work. You don't work to live. You live to work. And that doesn't mean becoming a workaholic and putting all your value in your paycheck. What it means is you were created to contribute. That's why everybody that I talk to on the show, A.O., calls in and they're very confused.

Ken, I don't know what I want to do with my life. I just want to help people. Everybody says that because we all long to make a difference. So the answer is figure out what you're supposed to do. You can call my show. We'll do a deep dive with you. Once you figure it out, you adjust your lifestyle to that. You know what, Ken?

I want to ask something to that. It's not really necessary to the question, but to the point you just made. And I really want America to hear this out. How is it that teachers who are making on average median income making sixty thousand dollars a year right but then they are retiring millionaires yeah i i i want to teach right here from the money principle do it you say live below your means that's how they're doing it they're living below their means they're paying off their debt and then also in that same study that we did we found out that they're also paying off their mortgage yes watch this uh when they retire if they have one million dollars in their

retirement funds and then they let's say they just draw the interest only don't pull from the one million let's just say the interest is ten percent at that time it's a hundred thousand dollars so i know america are probably probably saying where are you going to get 10% from? Well, I can talk to that too, but let's just go down to the low end. Let's say it's 8%. That's $80,000. So when she retires, she's debt-free, has a million dollars in her account,

and she gets a $20,000 pay raise to go retire. Why? Because over a period of time, she didn't chase money, she chased happiness and while she was chasing her happiness her fulfillment like you taught uh she's living the money principles that that we teach live below your means you know have the nice things pay off your debt stay away from debt and so when she retires not only she has seven figures that she could pass down to her kids

and to her kids kids but she gets a twenty,000 when she stops working and she can now go enjoy life. I just had to add that in there. It's great. For all y'all people saying, oh, you got to make a million dollars a year. No, you don't. No. And not only did he make the financial case, let me make the soul case. Not only has she had a raise in retirement, she's going to get to the end of her journey,

look back, and reminisce, not regret. So good. And that's what this journey is all about. I love it. 888-825-5225. Samir joins us in St. Louis, Missouri. Samir, how can we help? Yes, it's a pleasure to talk to you, gentlemen.

So quickly, I found Ray about four years ago, and I paid off like $250,000 in debt. Whoa! Way to go, Samir. That's serious stuff. Yes, sir. I'm debt-free. I just paid off my house. I paid off $104,000 on the 12th.

Wow. And I am looking to buy another house, but I need to do something called a bridge loan, which is, I think, some kind of temporary loan because I don't have 20% to put down on a new house. So I have to wait to sell my house in order to put that money down towards a new house or get this. No? No.

Because AKA is also called a caveat loan. All right. And so those typically go from like two weeks to about three years. And what I want you to do is I want you to go ahead and sell your current loan. I mean, not your loan. Sell your current house. You are already debt free. You have already made the right moves.

I do not want you to go back because here's the thing. If you get this loan, let's say life happens within the next year. Now you're stuck with that and you do not and you will not qualify for the next loan. So what I want you to do, man, is just be patient. Sell this house in this market. You can sell that house fast and then take that income from the home and going over and purchase your new home. I had to do that. Ken had to do that.

So, I mean, trust me, don't do temporary loans. What is your house worth? I'm thinking it will sell for like $230,000. I've lived in it 11 years now, and I paid $130,000 whenever I bought it. Yeah, you're in St. Louis. The market's white hot pretty much everywhere. And so you sell that for $230,000, like Ayo said. What's the new house going to cost you?

$410,000. So you've got more than that. You've got plenty. Plenty. You've basically got half. Yeah. 50% down. You don't even have to do that, per se.

But, I mean, why are you in an itch to not wait on the home? Can you not do a contingency where you put an offer down on building or whatever, and it's based on the contingency of you selling your home? No, because there's no houses in the area where I'm looking at, and nobody wants to wait. I try doing that, and they're not willing to wait. Okay, I get you. That's fine.

But AO is still right. I mean, you're just going to have to be patient. That's hard. I get it. I agree. Yeah, be patient. Yeah, you got this. You know, I mean, this is such a crazy real estate market that it's got people kind of going, hey.

I mean, but here's the point. You know, houses are still going to be there. Absolutely. You know, at some point, he has done such a tremendous job. He's in an enviable position. Yeah, and if they're not there, he can wait and go build one. Right. He's going to have $100,000 in equity.

Sounds like he makes good money. I mean, here's the thing. Patience is worth it in the long run. You do not want to make a hasty decision based upon emotions. Just sit still, be tight, and you'll be all right. Yeah, I absolutely agree on that. All right, AO, question from Deshawn on Facebook. I'm a sophomore in college.

I'm currently debt-free. My college is paid for by scholarships. I've got $1,500 in savings. I'm 21. How can I make sure not to get in debt? How do I maximize my money from my job? I mean, if you're graduating debt-free, I'll go ahead and just part that money into a savings account, get the thing up to three months at her age level. And then that's how you stay out of debt. I mean, if you get a fully funded emergency fund, if an emergency happens, you don't have to go back into debt to cover that emergency. But I want to give her some cool points here, brother,

before we go to break. Do you know that nearly 52% of people in America don't even have $1,000 in their savings? Yeah. She's already about it. 21-year-old. No debt. Scholarship.

Going to be in great shape. Great advice, AO. All right. Don't move. He is Anthony O'Neill. I'm Ken Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Anthony O'Neill, and we're taking your questions about your life. How about those money questions?

Getting out of debt, savings, investing. What do you got? Hey, how about work? Oh, man, I'm in a dead-end job. Or my job's okay, but I want to move into something else. I want to get promoted. I actually like the work. I just want to get promoted.

I'm moving into a leadership position. Hey, how do I do that? Any of those work questions, career, and working on purpose questions, well, that's what I will work with you on as well. Anthony O'Neill taking your calls with me, Ken Coleman, and we are Ramsey Personalities. Check out our shows on

the Ramsey Network, The Table with Anthony O'Neill, available on YouTube and as a podcast, and the Ken Coleman Show on YouTube, podcast, talk radio, and SiriusXM. All right, to the phones we go. Carbondale, podcast, talk radio, and SiriusXM. All right, to the phones we go. Carbondale, Illinois, is where Austin joins us. Austin, how can we help?

Hi, gentlemen. Thanks for speaking with me. Sure. I'm a relatively new supervisor, less than a year in for a federal agency, and I have a small group of employees that work for me, about four of them, and they are absolutely awesome. And being within the federal agency, I have limited control over what kind of financial incentives I can offer them. And I was wondering if you had any advice or recommendations on ways that I can

show my appreciation, show my gratitude, without it becoming just the repetitive good job, nice work. Yeah, okay. Well, you know, recognition and rewards. Okay? Recognition and rewards. And I know you say you all want to do a little bit more than just good job. But recognition is something you do in front of everybody. You've got a small team.

And I would combine those two words. And you can do this out of pocket, even if you're limited with the federal agency not giving you a budget for this, because this isn't about money. But you could do something fun like the person's favorite dessert or their favorite restaurant. You get a gift card, call the whole group together. There's only four of them. And go, hey, Sue, Sally, John, Jerry, whoever it is, they've been doing a great job and I wanted to publicly recognize them. See, that's the recognition piece. And you brag about them

publicly. Then you give them some type of a reward. And again, both the recognition and the reward, it's not about how fancy it is or how shiny it is or how expensive it is. It's just the fact that you're doing it and you're showing them some love. So it could be that simple. And that's something that you can do, whether you have a budget for it or not. Make sense? Okay, thank you. Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate the call.

You know, we know this, by the way. HR data, folks, shows that people would rather be publicly recognized and receive some type of reward, which is the attaboy, attagirl, and then, hey, good job. I'm going to give you an extra day off. Or, hey, if I'm going to reward and recognize my colleague, AO. Let's say I was leading AO. All right. Here's what I know. He likes the fine experiences.

So I may pick his favorite restaurant. I may pick his favorite restaurant. I may pick his favorite dessert. I may hook him up with a gift card or buy a round of golf for him at a really sweet golf course. I may buy him a golf club. I may buy him some golf shoes. All of those things are personal to you,

but it's really about recognizing you. It's not even the gift, which is the reward. Yeah, I would love to join a Kane Coleman team. You need me to do that? I can just do that because, you know, I can just do that. Hey, listen, man. All right. Round of golf. I'll do it for one thing. So again, we know that from HR studies that people would rather receive those things than a raise. Yeah. So let's not overthink this, leaders. Just publicly recognize them and put a little reward with it, and it goes a really long way.

Let's go now to Chattanooga, Tennessee, where Mary joins us. Mary, how can we help? Well, I'm just kind of on the way you were talking about there, trying to find ways to encourage myself and others on this journey, because it's kind of budget-tight right now. Yeah? Tell me. What are you challenged by? What are you trying to do?

Well, I've been pulling my credit report. I've got, so far, I have discovered over about $24,000 in debt. Okay. And I think each time I read through that and look through that and try to pull that out and try to deal with these creditors, it's been really, really hard. Yeah, okay, cool. Talk to us. I mean, what's so difficult about it?

$24,000 in debt. Okay, cool. I hear you. What are you making a month? I mean, not a month. What's your annual income?? $24,000 in debt. Okay, cool. I hear you. What are you making a month? I mean, not a month. What's your annual income? About $9,000. Say it again.

About $9,000. You make $9,000 a year? Yeah, I'm on a fixed income disability. Okay, so now that's why it's discouraging. Because, I mean, you don't have any income. So I'm going to let the career expert help you out because we got to get her shoveled up. I mean, I can give you all the motivational tools, but it's still going to be discouraging if we don't have an income. Yeah, Mary, a breakdown your fixed income situation.

Obviously, I understand you're on a disability, but what would it take? I mean, where are you limited? As much as you're comfortable sharing, I need to understand the disability, and then we deal with that fixed income. I get less than $1,000 a month. Most of it goes to rent, more than half. No, I understand, but what is your disability? What's limiting you? There's some back issues. Okay, and where are you? Are you seeing somebody? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? What's the prognosis on the back? Well, that's the prognosis on the back?

Well, that's the problem I'm running into is I have no insurance and no other source of income, and I'm getting bills from creditors, collection issues for medical bills that I can't afford. And I realize I'm responsible for them, which I probably have a new realization for me. Okay. And it's all new to me, but how to deal with that? I'm getting a lot of shut-offs and shut-downs with the collection issues and how to even address any of this or how to proceed with any of this. Okay, so you're not – It's becoming quite overwhelming.

I get it. Okay, so you're not even getting treatment on the back. So the next question is, what work could you do today, even if it hurt? What could you do? I don't know. That's not true. That's not true. I've heard that so many times.

Mary, come on now. Come on, Mary. Mary. Well, I enjoy clerical work. I enjoy helping people. I've heard that so many times. Mary, come on now. Come on, Mary. Mary. Well, I enjoy clerical work. I enjoy helping people. I enjoy doing research. It's just a matter of having the tools that I would need to do that. It's been costing money.

Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. When you say clerical work, what do you mean? You mean like administrative assistant type work where you're doing lots of administrative tasks? Is that what you mean? Basically, yeah. Kind of, yeah. I guess that would be the case. Yeah, something that I would be, kind of a hands-on thing I would be doing. Have you done that before you mean? Basically, yeah. Kind of, yeah. I guess that would be the case, yeah.

And I would be kind of a hands-on thing I would be doing. Have you done that before for anybody? I've done it a few times as voluntary for nonprofits. Yeah. Now, Mary, so here's the thing. So, Ayo, I want you to take over in just a second on what we can do for her, you know, as far as the coaching or we can get her some counseling, the financial stuff. But, Mary, I'm going to tell you something. AO's right.

$24,000, while it seems like a massive mountain for you to climb, I'm telling you it's not. It is on a fixed income. Yes. And you're just – you're not even – you're just – you're trying not to drown every month. But I'm going to tell you something, Mary. It doesn't sound like to me, and I'm not in any way minimizing your pain, but it does not sound like to me like you are in so much pain that you can't go work. And I'm telling you the way out of this, the financial pain and the physical pain is work. And let me tell you something.

The economy in Tennessee is really good. Chattanooga is a thriving economic center. You need to go get a job and if you're doing basic administrative work or you're working in a warehouse answering phones, you can be doing

way more than $9,000 a year. That fixed income is holding you back. You need to drop the fixed income. You need to go, hey, I'm in pain, but I'm going to work. And when I go to work, I'm going to go get a job where I can get some benefits, and I'm going to move into that. And then I'll start taking care of myself physically.

You can get on the phone with the creditors and go, here's my situation. I'll get to you when I get to you. But $24,000 is doable. And I want you to hang on the line. Madison, let's get her plugged into Ramsey Plus. Let's also, maybe if we can get on the phone with one of our counselors and coaches for a session to kind of show her step-by-step what she needs to do. And here's the thing, Samantha, you're going to get counseling inside of Ramsey Plus.

So please stay on the line. Let Madison take care of that. But I want to encourage you because what I what I heard was excuses. I didn't hear I didn't hear anything that says I cannot work. So I want to be sensitive to your pain. I want to be sensitive to your situation. But here's the truth in a respectful way that the greatest enemy to your success is your excuse if you want to change things around then you have to change your mindset that's the very first thing so i agree with ken you got to get out there and get a job you got to get out there and look online and see what you could do maybe from home you can

do something while you're also getting your back looked at and situated. So stay on the line. We'll get you situated. And again, respectfully, we're praying for you and your pain. Yeah. Yeah. Tough stuff. But there is hope.

And that is very surmountable. You can get over that. All right. Hey, I want to thank our producer, James Childs, and sitting in for Kelly Daniels today, Madison Browder. Ayo, thank you, my friend. Always a joy to be with you. But we want to thank you, America. Thank you for listening. This is The Ramsey Show.

Hey, guys, this is James, senior producer for The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to theramseyshow.com.