The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Take Less for My Car Just to Get Rid of It? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: December 30, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, best-selling author, is my co-host today. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Tom starts off this hour in Huntington, West Virginia. Hey, Tom, how are you?

I'm doing great. Thank you for asking. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Sure. So I am blessed beyond belief. I have a job that I love. And as part of this job, I have to travel between eight and 10 times a year. My company is

very big and they have very specific travel requirements. And that means that I have to use the hotels that they specify and the car companies they specify. And some of those require that I have a credit card in order to make reservations. My wife and I have followed you for a long time, and I don't like the idea of having a credit card. Is there any option that I have here? Probably not. Okay, I've kept a credit card. The debit card will work for dollar car rental but it won't work uh at most of the others without a big hassle um i'm a little bit surprised that if they require one certain rental car company that they don't i mean every hotel just about take a debit card now

so that's not an issue but the rental car companies many of them don't and so i'm surprised they don't have a corporate uh contract with don't have a corporate contract with them. We have a corporate contract with Hertz and with Dollar. Dollar is owned by Hertz. And so when our people travel, they just put it on our corporate account. They don't run their own cards or cash or anything when they're checking in. Who do they require you rent with? It's mostly Avis, and we have to pay for it ourselves,

and then we have to submit reimbursements after. And Avis will not take a debit card. No, they won't. You're right. They're complete twerps about it. So the other thing I would do is, I mean, you can continue to mess with this, whatever you want, but you're not going to get Avis to take a debit card. I mean, I would ask your supervisor why we don't have an Avis corporate account that I can't just sign for and go in and just bill directly to the company. It's a reimbursement anyway.

Why do they make you put it on your personal stuff? If they're big, why do they need to borrow money from you? Sure. And, you know, I would just push back a little bit. I mean, you don't have to be belligerent about it or something. The other thing you could ask for is just ask for a company credit card. If you're asking me to travel and you're asking me to use specific things that require a credit card, I don't have any credit cards, so you need to furnish me a company credit card.

Okay. I mean, you can ask for some stuff like that. That would solve it. I don't know, you know, depending on how bureaucratic, and they may just look at you with their eyes crossed and go, no, you know, and then you may just have to run a credit card for one thing. The danger is you're walking around with this thing in your pocket that can really cause harm to you. And so you've just got to be uber, uber careful with it. I mean, you're carrying around a vial of nuclear substance.

You just got to be real, real, real gentle with it and keep it wrapped in padding and only use it when it's necessary and this kind of thing and not just go oh well you know we're out to eat and i do have that that card back there no no no no these are only reimbursable expenses and you just got to be super super careful but i would push back against it and you love your job so i'm not asking you going to quit your job or be belligerent about it or something so i mean you know what he's also disciplined enough the very fact that he called and he wants to talk through that um you're not violating you know some you know unbelievable dave ramsey clause i mean you've heard from the man himself well i guess you're right if it's if

he has to have it but i mean if he's only using it for that he doesn't have any choice but i like the idea of asking for the company credit card the problem is a lot of companies they can't think outside the box like that well somebody wrote a policy at some point and they're like they can't get outside of that well i mean it isn't interesting if you think about this here's what corporate america does to people like this they ask you their employee right to borrow $4,000 for them for lodging and rental car and client entertainment, you, the employee, who makes one one-jillionth of what the CEO makes, are supposed to finance this company's behaviors, this company's requirements for them, and then ask for your money back.

This is the crap that corporate America pulls and gets away with. I mean, when you really put that in perspective, it's absolutely asinine. It's ridiculous. But, you know, you don't have to get mad about it and quit. You just kind of have to go, things I think about. You know? Yeah. Like I was telling Rachel the other day, she's making fun of me about these electric cars.

What did you say about electric cars? I was in a meeting. We're building another building, and I was in the meeting with the architects, and they go, okay, we've got to have these electric plugs out front for these electric cars. And I said, why? Is is it code is it code i could hear you now and they said no it's not code but everybody does it and i said well that's a good reason i'm not doing it yeah so and we've got the electric plugs out front of this building right we're putting them out for the next building too okay and so the team members and winston's like we need more plugs because people more plugs because not enough people can plug their little electric car in out there.

And so we need more plugs. And I said, so why is it? How did it happen in our culture to where I buy some employees fuel for their cars as the owner of the building, but I don't buy fuel for the other employees? So I'm thinking we need to put in a gas tank out there. And Kelly thinks we need one. She wants free gas. Well, I don't understand why some Ramsey solutions get free electric.

It's energyism. You know what? James, I would like to talk about getting a gas card. I am discriminating against some employees and not others. Me. I'd have never gotten a Ramsey gas card. Right there. There's not, because there's not one.

That's why you don't have one. Well, I would file a grievance with HR, but you'd punch me on the air and then everything would go bad. It would just be bad. It would be ugly. I would mess with you in front of millions of people. You make a good point. Now, Rachel didn't like that.

No, but Rachel. She didn't like that. Because she'd argue with the post. That's fair. But the, that's also accurate. So, I mean, because she'd argue with the post. That's fair. That's also accurate. Interesting. We just did that, and nobody thought anything about it.

I am buying fuel for some people's cars, and I'm not buying fuel for others. You are. So it's the same crap. Why is it corporate America gets away with this crap, and they get people to charge $4,000 worth of stuff they're doing on behalf of the business. It's a business expense. The business ought to bear the expense. I have an answer.

Now, it's going to sound simplistic, but you've got to really get the gist of this. The reason corporate America does that is because enough people don't go, why do we do that? And I don't believe in credit. It's bad. And I've gotten out of debt, and I cut my credit cards up. I'm a good employee. Are you open to the concept that you get me a corporate credit card? It's the same thing.

It's still a transaction. Why are we adding an extra step? Because that's what they're doing. And challenge the process, as Dave said, in a respectful way. You don't raise a bunch of cane, but you've got to start asking questions. Five times in my coaching career, I've had people come home and file the expense report, and the company went into Chapter 11, and they end up bearing the burden of that debt for that company.

That's a big risk. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Life sure has a lot of twists and turns. Unlike a roller coaster, we never know what's around the bend. The same can be true with unanticipated medical bills. That's why Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, is a great option for those who are faith-focused and budget-conscious. CHM is not insurance. Rather, it's Christians helping other Christians carry one another's burdens with healthcare expenses. You know how important it is to be ready for whatever life throws your way.

And unfortunately, medical expenses can be some of the biggest, most unexpected curveballs. With CHM, you'll have peace of mind knowing you and your family have a caring, faith-based community behind you. As a Better Business Bureau accredited charity, CHM has helped its members successfully share over $5 billion in each other's medical bills for nearly 40 years to see if chm is right for you visit online at ch ministries.org budget that's ch ministries.org budget ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the air this is the dave ramsey show brandon is with us in fort bragg north carolina hi brandon what's up uh hey dave hey ken thank

you guys so much for taking my call so i'm going to jump right into it um my wife and i started our debt-free journey about 21 months ago we had 3,000 in debt and we are down to our last $19,807.46. It's on a 2019 Honda Odyssey. So private sale Blue Book is about $29,000. And we've been trying to sell it for about six months now. We've had it listed all the way down to $26,000 and we still haven't been able to get rid of it. So we took it to CarMax, and they offered us $23,000 cash. So at this point, do you think I should just cut my losses and get out from under it, or should we keep trying to private sale it? Or it'll take us about eight months if we continue in Baby Step 2 to pay it off, and I'm at a loss for what to do now. What's your household income? $65,000 a year.

What's the other car worth? It's worth about $8,500, but I paid cash for it. Okay, and so you'd have $31,000 tied up in cars, you make $65,000, that's about 50%. That's the most we would tell you to have tied up in cars if they're paid for. Then do you like the Odyssey? I do like it. I don't like the $19,807.46 that I owe on it. Okay, so if you sell it for $23,000, what are you going to do? We talked about going down. My wife doesn't work.

She stays home with the kids. So we're going to go down to one car for about three months, three or four months, get through baby step three, and then save up cash and buy an older model Odyssey cash. Okay, like what price range? Probably about $10,000 to $12,000. Actually, that fits your situation better than the current Odyssey does. Okay.

And so that plan gets you out of debt, and you're in a – because the other – if you keep this current car, you're at 50% of your income tied up in cars, which is the max we tell people. And I'd rather – just because it's the max doesn't mean you want to go to it. Yes, sir. You know, so if I was going to prescribe for me if you didn't own any cars, and you said, I'm going to own $20,000 worth of cars, or I'm going to own $32,000 worth of cars, and I make $60,000, I would tell you, you know, $20,000 is a good number. Paying cash, of course, along the way. And that's what you're going to end up with, with a $12,000 Odyssey and an $8,000 what you're driving, right?

Yes, sir. Yeah, I, you know, that's a lot of trouble to go through that, but that's a very doable move, and it gets you under control instantly okay so um yeah you it isn't like you haven't tried to sell this and um you know i might push back on carmax see if they'll bump you another thousand just for the fun of it and i might shop it i might shop it to a couple other dealers and see if somebody else will bump it another thousand say i got a 23 from them. You want to go more? Let's mess with a couple of dealers on a wholesale basis.

Yes, sir. I think we kind of knew the answer before I called. I just needed that knowledge because when we sat down and looked at the number and how much of a hit we're taking and how much we're losing on it, you know, it was kind of like, do we do this? Do we not? But I think looking at it logically and following the baby steps of, you know, progression and getting out of debt, I think we were kind of ready to do it then yeah you've been working on this hard for a while i can tell because you're thinking really clearly

yes sir you guys have been busting it you've sacrificed to get here hadn't you we have we sold our house i sold my truck we financed we had sixteen thousand dollars with a furniture finance that we sold pretty much everything except for a coffee table and a couch. And then we've just been digging at it. And it just seems like, you know, we're just ready to be done with it. I'm waking up at 3 o'clock in the morning to look at my spreadsheet to see where we're going to save a dollar here and there so we can just get this thing done with. I can tell you're ready to be done with it. How's your wife doing?

I think she's on the same page um she's not psyched about going down to a single car for the three to four months but um you know i think she's kind of on board with whatever i want to do it was just really explaining to her that we're going to take the hit now we're never going to go in debt again we're never going to make this a stake again and it's just going to be a lesson that we've learned yeah that's painful. But I think I like your plan as long as the two of you are on the same page to do it and not her just going along with you. Her enthusiastic about it matters because she's the one you're selling her car. That's true.

Yeah. And you've got to work through that, the emotions of that. There's tremendous momentum, though. I just think I want the audience to hear it in his voice. He's waking up at three in the morning and he's really, really dialed in on this thing. This is all intensity. It's gazelle. And he and I think you have to honor that gazelle intensity.

You got to finish it now. I know it's going to be difficult. There's no question about it. The next three or four months. That is a good word to honor the honor of the momentum. Step into the step into the flow. Yeah. Keep keep it going, because now what happens, there's no waking up at 3 in the morning,

and he can transfer that intensity to now I'm on the other side of this deal. Now we're saving money for the emergency fund. We're saving money for the replacement odyssey, yeah. Don't lose momentum. I would do everything in my power to not lose momentum. Yeah, and you've got momentum caught by the tail. He's rolling downhill. Yeah, that's've got momentum caught by the tail. He's rolling downhill. Yeah, that's a good point.

That's a good observation. Jesse's in Huntsville, Alabama. Hi, Jesse. How can we help? Hey, it's so good to talk to you guys. I'm so happy to be communicating with you. You too. I'm very confused about what to do financially,

and just to be honest with you, I've never once had an adult figure in my life. You know, my parents were not good with money. I grew up like on food stamps a lot of the times, just never really have known how to handle it. And so I'm constantly trying to teach myself how to. About a year and a half ago, I moved out of the house that I bought with my ex-boyfriend. No longer in it. Since then, I've been living with a friend.

I feel very disempowered living with her because I just feel cramped in this one small room, like a child almost. I am at a job where I thought I was going to be able to get full time, but they just sold the company and now I'm not able to. I don't get paid hardly anything at all. I mean, it's, it's decent, but it's not enough for me to sustain myself. Um, so I guess nothing at all. I'm trying to be generous to them, but I don't have health insurance. I don't really have any debt. I have a thousand dollars left on my car. I have 14,000 in savings, um, which I feel like I should invest into a little bit into an IRA. No. No? No. I just don't know what to do with it. I don't know what next step to take. And I don't have a college education, but I want to go back and finish. WhySA because I want to feel actually confident in a skill set, which I've

learned so much. I'm 27 and I've learned so much while my friends were in college. I was managing a nonprofit, did a lot of marketing for local businesses. So I feel intelligent, but I want to be very skilled at certain applications, which I think will give me a higher capability to earn more money. Jesse, let me ask you a question. If you knew you couldn't fail and you didn't have to commit the next 15 years of your life

to a job, what would you try tomorrow, knowing there was no risk? What would you want to do? That is such a great question that I've never been able to answer. I mean, to be completely honest with you, I know this is vague, and vagueness will not get me anywhere. I know that. Take a step. Here's what I want you to do. I want you, risk-free, we're just talking, you, me, and Dave.

I think you know an answer, and I don't care if it's kind of, I don't care if it's fuzzy. Let us dig into it. Tell me, what would you do? Top of your heart, say it. I've really been thinking that I want to get into real estate. Okay. Take us 10 years, 15 years down the line. Success in real estate for you is what?

Describe it. Success in life in general for me would be having a job that I'm genuinely passionate about, and I feel like I can work harder to earn more money, not a 9-to-five where I'm stuck making an hourly or salary wage, because that feels so limiting to me. So you're rocking. So you're rocking. You're selling homes.

You've got a lot of freedom in your life. I'm going to pass it to Dave, but I'm going to tell you something. You've got $14,000 in savings, and you owe $1,000 on your car. You need to pay the car off today. Okay. savings, and you owe $1,000 on your car, you need to pay the car off today. And Dave, I mean, I think now she's got $13,000, and I think she needs to get real serious about stepping into real estate. Real fast. Let's give her a copy of my book, The Proximity Principle.

I want you to read this. Yeah, and I want you to go talk to three real estate brokers beginning next Monday about what it takes to get started with them. And you're going to be working some part-time stuff, maybe like six part-time things instead of one bad one, until you get your real estate career up and running. But six months from now, you should be full-time in real estate, having worked part-time doing anything you can get your hands on to eat in the interim.

And you probably do need to get you an apartment as soon as you get your income up just a little bit. Hang on. Kelly will pick up. We'll give you a copy of the proximity principle. You need to get in the real estate business, Jesse. This is the Dave Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Mary is with us. Hi, Mary. How are you? Good. How are you, Dave and Ken? Welcome. Good to have you. And where are you from? I'm from Dublin, Ohio. Oh, good to have you. And all the way here to do a debt-free screen. That's right. How much have you paid off? $49,075. All right. Very good. How long did it take you to do this? Five years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time?

It went between $34,000 and $61,000 at its highest. Wow. What do you do for a living? I'm a legal admin for a chemical company, but I'm like the queen of the side hustle. Cool. What was your best side hustle, the one that made you the best money? Well, currently I resell on eBay, so I've had some pretty good flips on there, like maybe turn $3 into $100. I think that was my best one so far. All right.

Good for you. Yeah. Well done. Thanks. So what kind of debt was the $50,000? Like just nothing, basically. You know, like Christmas from 94, a hamburger from 2000. It was like nothing that, you know, I could even show you.

Okay. So all credit cards or? Credit cards and, you know, lines of credit and just a lot of stupid. Yeah. Wow. It wasn't even a student loan or a house or anything I could, you know, even show you. So, yeah, they needed to go. Yeah.

Well, good for you. Thanks. Well done. What got you started on this five years ago? Well, I've been listening to you way longer than that. But five years ago, I just decided that I was really sick of just working all the time and having nothing to show for it. And then and now my kids are both in different states. And I wanted to be able to go and see them. And I have two grandsons in a different state, of course, so I wanted to be able to see them. And, you know, you decide.

I finally realized that stuff wasn't as important as experiences. And so I started just basically sell everything, you know, kind of. Good for you. I just started selling things and then I went from there. Very cool. So now that you've done it, how's it feel? It is awesome. I mean, I'll look at my account the day before payday and be like, why is there money?

You know, it just, it isn't even um it doesn't even make sense still because you know by payday there were a lot of times i couldn't even i mean there was just nothing left you know totally paycheck to paycheck so it's it's really nice not to be just completely broke all the time amen amen so when your friends and family find out that you've paid off $50,000 and they say, how'd you do that? What do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is? I just worked. That was the budget is. A lot of people work.

What'd you do? I guess I just worked a lot. And I was frugal. You know, I cooked um so you adjusted your outgo below your income yes and and and stopped with the credit cards i mean no more credit cards i'm italian so sorry that's okay so you just had to say stop it right right stop the crazy okay all right that's good good for you very good good. And I've always done everything kind of backwards in life. You know, I'm like, well, I'll tell you, when I was 18, my first experience with money,

and this was how I went along until I discovered you, basically. I had no money at all, and I decided that this closed checking account I had, that for some reason the checks were still okay. So I went to the grocery store and bought groceries with these checks from this closed account. And then, being the rocket scientist I was, applied for a job at said grocery store. Well, the owner called me, but it was not to offer me a job and i just kind of went downhill from there um and then finally finally i headed back up okay very cool well good for you i appreciate you turning this around i'm proud of you hero well thank you guys for all you do who were were your biggest cheerleaders? My kids, definitely.

Dave, I've got my own Dave over here. Okay. My family, I got to do a dress rehearsal, dead free scream for one of my sisters and her boyfriend. I love it. And friends. Some people say that people thought they were kind of crazy doing it, but I didn't get any of that.

Yeah. Well, that's good. That's good. Mostly people encouraging them of that. Yeah. Well, that's good. That's good. Mostly people encouraging that. Yes. Yeah. Well done. Thanks.

I'm so very, very proud of you. Thank you. Excellent, excellent job. All right. Mary, we got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. We want that to be the next chapter in your story where you go on to be a millionaire now. Yeah. And you can do that.

That's very possible now that you know on to be a millionaire now and you can do that that's very possible now that you know how to control money and make this behave fifty thousand dollars paid off in five years mary from dublin ohio count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one i'm debt-free Free! Yeah! Well done! Very well done. Great job. That's so cool.

You know, it was really interesting. She started off by saying, you know, you asked her what turned her around. She said, I was sick and tired of working so hard and not seeing anything come from it. And then you said, well, what did you do to turn around? She went, I worked really, really hard. There was a shift there. See, working hard, seeing no results of the work. Just she was spinning her wheels stuck in the mud.

And then she decided, I'm getting out of this. And what did she do? She said she was a side hustle queen. She started working harder than ever. The difference was she saw a clear vision. She saw a future, a desired future that was worth the work. And I think we can do so much more than we realize when we really have a true why. And she's a great, great example of that. Absolutely.

Very well done, Mary. Great job. Great job. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best deal.

Today's question is from Carla in Nevada. She says on DaveRamsey.com, how do I know what I want to do? I've got a master's degree with no luck getting a job in the field of my degree, which is computer science. I'm open to other options as well. I've just been floating around working minimum wage jobs. I thought I had a plan, but I think I lost it along the way. Any advice would be appreciated. A master's in computer science and you don't land a job of a minimum wage? Yeah. You know, of course, when you get these kind of questions, we're limited with the back and forth. I'd love to know a little bit more here. And there's multiple questions.

Now, how do I know what I want to do? Well, that's what we address every day on the Ken Coleman Show, and we figure out what it is that we were created to do by identifying our unique role. Well, how do you do that? Well, for those of you that are listening and going, hey, I'm the same way, you can go to KenColeman.com, and we have the Career Clarity Guide, which will walk you through the three indicators in the first stage to significance, and that is getting clear. What do you do best? Hard skills, soft skills. That's talent. What work do you love to do? this is something you have high emotion and devotion for and then third what results of your work matter deeply to you that's mission talent passion mission when they intersect that's where your sweet spot is when people look

at you and say you were born for this you were created to do this and they marvel at the work that you do and how you go about doing it. Now, this other question in here is, I've just been floating around, you know, she needs to actually get serious about connecting with people in the field. This is why we wrote the proximity principle. Get around people that are doing computer science. Get in places where that's happening. Because here's what happens, Dave.

The right people plus the right places is a formula that equals opportunity. You have a master's degree in computer science. You should be making more than minimum wage at an entry-level job in something in technology. That's right. There's something really screwy about this. I'd love to know what's going on behind the question, what her track record has been, how she's interviewing. Is she just submitting cold resumes, or is she really working her way through connections? Before I work minimum wage, I've got to work for somebody for free in the field that got me a job and again that's

proximity that will get you connections to the right people who will say hey here's some more right people or here are some places and so that's what she needs to do um she needs to get busy love it this is the The Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. our scripture of the day first corinthians 15 57 but thanks be to god who gives us the victory through our lord jesus christ ted engstrom said the rewards for those who persevere far exceed the pain that must precede the victory good stuff well guys these are crazy times this could be your never again moment never again will you be at the mercy of a global crisis never again will no emergency fund and debt keep you up at night never again will you let the news cycle put you in a panic because you're broke you You can fix that, and we'll show you how.

And when you have the right plan, the right tools, the right teaching, you never have to question if you're doing the right thing with your money. Ramsey Plus gives you all of that. It's our brand-new all-access membership, and you can try it for free today. Here's how it works. You learn the proven money plan with our best-selling content, including Financial Peace University. You budget and take control with the world's best budgeting app, EveryDollar.

And you track your progress with the new Baby Steps app. All of this is in one membership. You start the money plan for real life so you can be confident you're doing the next right thing with your money. So if you've had your never-again moment, you're ready to turn it around this is your time it's your choice you can get a free trial for ramsey plus today text trial to 33 789 that's trial to 33789. Nate's in Milwaukee. Hi, Nate.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. How can Ken Coleman and I help you? Hey, Ken and Dave. It's an honor to talk to you guys here. You too. I have more of a career slash financial question. I'm 23 years old. Just a little back story here.

Of course, from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And I bought my first home at 19 years old, which, of course, after listening to you, I kind of figured out that's a mistake. However, I was in school. I got an associate's degree in IT security. And then I continued my education full-time to get my bachelor's in IT, in professional security. Good. Thank you. So, of course, you know, working full-time

and then paired with my three part-time sales jobs. I didn't really have too much time for studies, but got it all done, graduated in May, and got my 4.0 with honors. So now it's time to get serious. My full-time job, I work in IT, but it's more of a help desk role, and it only makes $32,000 a year. I've been with this company for about four years and not really seeing much movement in the direction that I spent all my time. You have a four-year degree in information systems with a specialization in internet

security? Is that what I'm understanding? Yes. Wow. Okay. Go ahead. What's your question, Nate? Well, upon searching for jobs in my path here, I have realized that I need to step into a junior security role

or a junior information security role, and they're just not paying what it would take for me to pay my mortgage. What are you finding that a junior security role is paying? what it would take for me to pay my mortgage. What are you finding that a junior security role is paying? $18 to $24 an hour. So it would be a lateral move, basically. No, that's not right. Something's wrong.

Based on my location, for a junior security role, it would. But that's contracted. I'm having a hard time finding a not-contracted that's upwards of 30 to 40 dollars an hour which is senior security person can make a couple of hundred indeed indeed and so i can't believe that these roles aren't starting at 50 to 60 grand uh they are they're just extremely difficult to find right now, and I have been looking a month before COVID started. Before we run out of time, Ken, what should he do? Well, you wait right now, because at this point, you're acting as though you've got to make a quick decision and go for what's available now, which are contract gigs, which don't pay what you need them to pay and what they should pay.

So I would forget about the contract gigs, and I would focus on, even though they're hard to find right now, that it means we're going to wait, we're going to be diligent. What I mean by wait is we're going to keep looking, we're going to keep connecting, we want to get those junior jobs that are salaried and that make the kind of money that you and Dave are talking about there. And until you find that, then you just sit tight. But there's no reason to take a contract job that doesn't pay well at all because it's just a function of we're in a tough economy right now.

But I will tell you this. I shared an article on the Ken Coleman Show last week. IT security field is still doing very well, and it's hot. And if Milwaukee's a tough area, I don't know how tied you are to a city. I come at things a little different. I left the nest in Virginia pretty early on. So you've got the whole nation to look at. So I think what you have to do here, my answer is don't take right in front of you if it's

not a good opportunity. Wait for something. Dig for something. Go somewhere else. it's not a good opportunity. Wait for something. Dig for something. Go somewhere else. There's too many good opportunities. With his background, a 4.0, that training, I'd be looking outside of Milwaukee if it's that tight in Milwaukee. Yeah, if it is.

I don't know that it is. I want you to maybe change some of your job search strategies a little bit. I'm going to send you a copy of Ken's book, The Proximity Principle. I want you to read that. I want you to go to KenColeman.com and download. Let's get the Get Hired Digital course. Exactly, the Get Hired Digital course. Well, you want to just, yeah, that's it.

I'll tell you what, we'll give it to him. Everybody else, you've got to go get it. But, Kelly, let's give it to him. It's a digital course. It's an 11-video lesson series where I walk through everything from the resume to the interview to how to get connected, how to use your web of connections. And right now it's only $20 at KenColeman.com, but it's our gift to you. But you've got to make sure you're shaking the right trees and shaking the trees properly. I don't think he's got the right perspective on that.

You're a hardworking young guy, for sure. You're not afraid of hard work uh but i i think that um you know somehow you've gotten a skewed perspective of uh what you can earn because i mean we've got security people internet security people on this team and none of them are making 18 dollars um the challenge he's facing is this he went and got a degree in it he knows what he wants to do but all he has seen so far is contract work, which pays less, essentially, than what he's making now. And he's going, how do I do this? This is the only thing that I can find right now.

And he's feeling like because of the degree, because he does have clear direction, that the only thing he could take is something that's subpar. And that's always the false choice. It's a false narrative. Sometimes you're going to have to reload and go, all right, this isn't the right thing now. I'm going to wait a little longer to find the right thing. Dig a little harder. Yeah, I really think that if you change your strategy on how you're looking, and we'll give you the digital course and the book both since I gave it to you and then Ken did too.

That's good. Walk through those 11 video lessons and i promise you it's going to change the way you're looking for position yeah and uh sometimes that has everything to do with it the way you're applying uh especially straight out of school and in a competitive environment right now a lot of people looking for work so now you're up against a whole lot more people applying. And here's the message. Truthfully, we were talking about that in a leadership team meeting this morning. We had 12 people start today.

And we had several key leadership roles start today. And our guys were making the comment that our recruiters are having a blast. It's like a hot knife through butter because there's so many people looking for work. And we're able to find people right now that we've been looking for for two years in some cases. And so that's the employer's view of it is there's a real supply out there. And so the other side of it is if you're looking for a job, you're amongst a lot of fish in the pond. Big stack. So let's just – right now we've got somewhere between 20 to 22 million people unemployed. Just for quick math to understand what you're up against, folks, let's say it's 20 million people and they're sending on average 10 resumes each. That's 200 million resumes. You better stand out. And we've heard from thousands, tens of thousands of people have used it. It works. It really works.

And we walk you through how to do it. We let you plug in the information. That's free. KenColeman.com. You've got to use it. But it's more than just the resume. It's in the book, The Proximity Principle. We teach the web of connections.

And sociology studies back us up. Acquaintances are how we get gigs. You better shake the relationship tree. Thanks for hanging out, Ken. Thanks for having me. Thanks to Zach filling in for James Childs today and Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. That about puts this hour in the books.

We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey guys, this is Kelly, associate producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know over 16 million people listen to The Dave Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.