The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Use a HELOC To Remodel the House? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 10, 2022

As heard on this episode: Sign Up for a FREE trial of Ramsey+ TODAY: https://bit.ly/3rZTUAx Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: https://bit.ly/2Q64HME Insurance Coverage Checkup: https://bit.ly/3sXwUn5 Complete Guide to Budgeting: https://bit.ly/3utmVXi Check out more Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3fHhbVE

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your relationships, your mental health, your money, and your careers, all right here on The Ramsey Show every day. 888-825-5225.

Bianca's with us in Boston. Hi, Bianca. How are you? Hi. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my husband and I are on Baby Step 2, and we've paid off all of our debt except for

my student loan, which is the largest part of our debt. I was gifted about $6,000, or it was about $3,000 at the time, so it's more than doubled in size, an investment account when I graduated from high school. And I'm trying to figure out if I should take that out or if it will be too hard in tax implications to take that out, or if I should just leave it in there. You should take it out and pay off your debt. Okay. How should we plan for and pay off your debt. Okay. How should we plan for paying the tax off on that at the end?

What's it invested in? It's just invested in mutual funds, so it's in a general brokerage account. It's not a retirement. Where did you get it? Where did you put in the $3,000? I was gifted to you, you said. Yeah, so my grandparents had gifted it to me as a high school graduation gift. Did they put $3,000 of cash in at that time, or was it an account they already had? It was cash that they put in for me at that time.

Okay, all right. So your basis in this is $3,000. Anything over three is going to be taxed at a capital gains rate of 15%. And so that's $450 if your gain is, if your total is 6,000, so your gains three times 15% is 450 bucks. Okay. So just set aside $500 extra in your savings account when you're, so when your tax bill comes a year from now, you'll be ready and use the rest of it for your debt. Okay. Yeah, that's a lot less than we expected.

So hopefully that's not too bad. Yeah, that's going to be it because it's a long-term capital gain. You've held it longer than a year. When you receive a gift, your basis in the gift is what the person paid for it, which in this case was $3,000. And so your gain is anything over the basis and that is the gain is taxed at 15 on long-term capital gains i'm not a tax expert but that is the right answer you can double you can double check it with an actual tax expert the math that you can do in your head dave ramsey i just can't i still can't i'm like oh my gosh you what i don't know i don't know It's just quick math, just fast math.

We grew up with T9 calculators in my day. We got a calculator. I did see that meme the other day, which was really funny. Which one? It was like the take this 90s teacher, the teacher standing up going, someday you're going to be in a situation where you don't have a calculator. They're like taking a test, and he's like holding his iPhone going, no, I'm not. Yeah, that's right. That's right. No, I'm not. I'll never be in a situation where you don't have a calculator. They're like taking a test, and he's like holding his iPhone going, no, I'm not. Yeah, that's right. That's right.

No, I'm not. I'll never be in a situation where there's not a calculator. There's always a calculator. I'll never be in a situation where there's not a camera or a flashlight. I've got them all right here at all times. So true. It's so true. I'm crawling around in the parking garage last night with the flashlight looking for

your mother's iPhone who had dropped hers out of the car in the parking garage. So, yeah, you've always got a flashlight, you know. You know you've hit your 60s. It's like MacGyver. It's like MacGyver. You know, you've got your little Swiss Army knife right here all built in. It's so off subject, but there has to be something true about, like, the neurological part of your brain. When you grew up having to do math in your head in long division, or it's just that muscle doing the show for 30 years okay so it's and i can't i can't do

real math i can do big math yeah round numbers yeah i can do round numbers really really fast so you'll hear me round stuff and hit close sure okay but um and i used to run the calculator in the old days i'd have it sitting sitting here when I first started the show. But I got to where I just got impatient with that, but it's a muscle. You just learn to do it. It's like memory. You'll be able to do it in a couple minutes.

I know. Just a couple minutes. I don't know. I feel like I have to write it down. 15%. Okay, 15,000. 3,000. 0.15.

It'd be 300 at 10%, bumping up a little bit. There you go. There you go. That's not bad. Or, as we're talking about, we'll get to a call, James. James is like, y'all shut up. Or Dave Math. Dave Math is like, phew.

Dave's like, you're going to have a billion dollars at age 65. I'm like, I don't know if that's right. That's called Dave Math. Oh, Dave Math is exaggeration. You have Dave math and you have Dave math. Dave math is funny. Funny. All right.

Let's just keep moving here. Craig is in Pittsburgh. Hey, Craig, how are you? Hello there. Hey. Hi to both of you. Thanks for taking my call. Sure.

How can we help? So my wife and I found you guys about two years ago. I like to think God led me to you, but we're currently on Baby Step 4, 5, and 6. We've got a daughter in college who we're cash flowing. We have a son who's a sophomore we're saving college for. We're investing in retirement at 15%. Good for you. And we're still trying to put extra to the mortgage every month.

Good. So listening to this show for a couple years, my thought, my question is, you know, when people were in Baby Step 3C saving for a down payment on a house, we have $325,000 in our retirement account right now. We've still got a waste for retirement about 15 years or so. So if I invest nothing based on your roll of seven, I'm figuring that grows to about $1.3 million in 14 years. So would it be worthwhile pausing investment for a couple years because we're putting so much cash into college to help pay down our mortgage, which is at about $175? We don't teach people to do that. And the reason we don't is that you're going to be fine if you don't use our system and you use that system.

But that's not what we teach. The reason we teach people not to do that is, let's say you do that for five years. That's five years of money that you couldn't keep away from the government okay you can never go back in retro and do i roth iras for the last five years you can only do them in the year in the year that you're allowed to do them you cannot go back retro and fill your 401k you can only fill it out of your payroll right then that month that year and so those years that you're going to park that money and it was going to be growing tax-free and roth are gone forever uh and and here's the other thing if you run the

numbers out it doesn't change the payoff date on the house that much okay let's let's say the kids are done with let's for simplification let's run a little math let's say the kids are done with school okay yes now what's your household income or about 180 okay so let's call it uh twenty eight thousand dollars a year is 30 percent right right that's what we're doing so twenty eight thousand dollars a year is 30 so if we quit doing i mean if we quit this is 15 i'm sorry uh so uh if we quit doing that it gains us 28 000 towards 175 but you make 180 right the way you get the house paid off is not the 28 it's get the kids out of school and then tighten the budget and hit the house with the rest of it the 30 000 towards 175 is not going to be your secret pill it's not enough it doesn't change them. It changes your house payoff date by

maybe two years or something like that. And you miss the market when you pause the retirement. And you miss all that sheltered income. Yeah. So you're changing the numbers by only about two years. And that's usually the way it works out, by the way. This is The Ramsey Show. Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways. Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids. Each has debt and has struggled to make ends meet. But they're starting to make headway with their budgets and smarter decisions with money. They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that one family has the right amount of term life insurance, and the other doesn't.

Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen, their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance. Just go to zanderinsurance.com or call 800-356-4282 and see how inexpensive it really is. Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible. It really does make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Money is one of the biggest sources of stress for married couples.

Everyone's dealt with it, including Sharon and I. We'll be married 40 years this summer. And Sharon always says, we've had 33 good years of marriage. Hey, it's normal, man. Does that mean seven left? I'm kidding. Not the last seven. But yeah, you're just spattered throughout the 40.

But hey, when we figured out that this money thing was a big deal, we set out to learn the right way of managing money and it changed our marriage so this valentine's day instead of an ordinary date night put an end of money stress in your marriage or bless a couple who's planning to tie the knot our valentine's day sale includes all kinds of gifts that'll help you strengthen your marriage and they're as much as 83 off the brand new questions for humans conversation cards for couples now i gotta tell you this little box of conversation cards looks like playing cards and you just got a question you ask and it spurs conversation has sold faster than just about anything we have ever put in our

bookstore you people have gone nuts over this thank you we appreciate it john deloney thanks you we appreciate it you get 55 conversation starters that will help you connect with your spouse, laugh together, share some truly meaningful quality time. You can gift our popular bundle, the Wedding Pack, for newlyweds, engaged couples. And these aren't your ordinary Valentine's Day gifts. Go to our online store at Ramsey Solutions. Shop the Valentine's Day sale to get up to 83% off before it ends. And Rachel and John are doing the Money and Marriage live stream on Friday night. I know.

Just a few, what, I guess tomorrow night. Tomorrow night. Yes. For those of you listening live, it's tomorrow night. Yep, for listening live. Yep. Friday night, the 11th, and it's going to be a couple hours long. So about an hour and a half, two hours.

And it's going to be great. We're going to teach on, we're going to talk a couple hours long. About an hour and a half, two hours. And it's going to be great. We're going to talk through five different conversations to have with you and your spouse need to have. So it's everything from goals to fear to trust to asking for what you need, intimacy, all of it. So it's going to be, it's great. It's always fun. Two great topics.

It's only like 20 bucks. Yeah. Just go to Ramsolutions.com, get the tickets or get the code i guess that's what it would be but join us yeah it's gonna be a really it's gonna be a fun night and i think you know there's so much content out there these days right like you're just bombarded um so just like i don't know trick your spouse say you're gonna watch yellowstone and then boom here we are you've already caught up on it. On the TV. Maybe you've already seen the season ending. Oh, okay.

1783, yeah. But no, it's always a fun event. So yeah, join us. Yeah, check that out. And those of you that are Ramsey Plus members already, it's free to watch it, so make sure you plan on tuning in. Don't miss that as well. All right, open phones at 888-825-5225. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com.

They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. That means even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your blinds for free. Free samples, free shipping, new promos all the time. It's a great American company. Great blinds and window coverings for your house. Use the promo code Ramsey and you'll get a great deal. Today's question comes from Michael in Wisconsin. My wife and I retired and we have a few goals that we'd like to accomplish. We'd like to remodel our

home and buy an RV for travel. We have a substantial retirement investments nearing a seven figure sum. I would like to use our home equity to finance the remodel, the travel trailer, and newer truck. We would then increase the withdrawals from our investments to pay off the HELOC. What do you think about this plan? Oh, Michael, not a great plan. No, I mean, you're going to go backwards. You guys are in retirement. You got a million dollars.

Just pay for the stuff. Cash out some and fix your house and buy a truck dude that's why you did this i'm going dead no the heloc no man it's hard to get away from debt in this culture it is so freaking insidious it's just everywhere crammed down your throat all the time and what's interesting is because i'm assuming the reason not to put assumptions on michael but it's the feeling of okay i could just take money i don't have to take a big chunk out and pay for all this at once because that feels scary so i'm going to just do a little bit at a time but what's not factored in is that little bit of a time you're adding risk onto your life when you owe money on stuff and specifically stuff that's going down in value like yeah it just yeah no michael the borrower slave to the lender you've got almost a million dollars

you know you said that's what you said nearing a seven figure sum so buy you a truck buy you a trailer remodel your house, or don't. But pay for it if you're going to do it. If you're too cheap to do it and pay cash for it, then don't use a HELOC and make it feel like you didn't really do it. There's a form of financial denial in things, like you didn't really spend the money when you borrow it. Brianna is with us.

Brianna is in Salt Lake City. Hey, Brianna, what's up? Hi. How are you guys doing today? Great. How are you? Doing well. So I just have a question.

So I currently work in a hospital part-time, and I also am starting up, well, it's a business that I've had for the last two years, which unfortunately when I first started it, it was two weeks right before the pandemic had started. And, but this year I'm finally going to be able to have a consistent schedule because my husband's schedule changed. And I'm also going to school to get into nursing school. And on top of all that, i'm a mom of five from kids ages eight to one well you're bored so i know right there's not much to do here so um anybody ever tell you you're trying to do too much at once uh my husband actually this morning just because he hasn't seen you in a while? He sees me, but he doesn't have me there when he sees me.

Yeah. It's been one of those, I'm trying to do what I can for our family, but also trying to find balance in everything. And there's a lot of fear behind the decisions I'm trying to decide on. And like going to school, I'm trying to get into nursing school. What do you do for a living? So I work as a tech on a labor and delivery unit, and my business that I actually do is I do permanent cosmetics. Okay. So 10 years from today, what is it you want to be doing? Permanent cosmetics? No scene?

So, yeah, the ultimate goal is to have the, my nursing where I can incorporate like Botox and lip fillers, like cosmetic stuff into my permanent makeup that I do right now. And you have to have a nursing degree for that. I know there's different licenses you have to have, but I didn't know it specifically. Yeah. Yeah. And so, but even just like my microblading, but what specifically I do with permanent makeup, I, um, I make, I can make a decent amount of money monthly, definitely way more than what I make working part-time at the hospital right now. But the fear is, is like letting go of that secure pay. How much does your husband make? So my husband makes $56,000 a year. What are you making at the permanent makeup thing? If I do it consistently and

work my butt off, I could be making around $3,500 to $4,500 a month. Okay. All right. And what do you make at the labor and delivery? $21,000. Quit. delivery uh 21 000 quit yeah and don't go to nursing school right now and grow grow your business and grow your kids grow your business and grow your kids if you need a different license if you need to add nursing later five years from now to continue to mature your business you may need a different license if you need to add nursing later five years from now to continue to mature your business you may just hire a nurse or you may uh hire someone that is licensed to do that stuff uh yeah brianna i got my appointment i got my appointment march one and it ain't cheap it ain't cheap so brianna kill it girl i do it quit doing the 21 000 i pay attention

to my kids and i I'd grow my business. And love your husband. You're going to enjoy your life better. And I wouldn't go to nursing school until you had to, and I probably wouldn't ever go. I'd just hire a nurse or hire a medical whatever that you need to do to be legal in your state to do whatever it is, the flip you do. This is The Ramsey Chef. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, New York Times multiple times, my co-host today. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Jimmy and Jade are with us.

Hey, guys, how are you? Good, how are you doing? Welcome. Where do you guys live? We live in mogador ohio which is near akron okay yeah good cool good to have you guys welcome to nashville and how much debt have you paid off 45 000 how long did that take about three years good for you and your range of income during that time 50 to Good for you. Man, you guys have been getting it. How old are you guys?

I'm 22. And I'm 25. Oh, my goodness. That's awesome, y'all. That's awesome. So you started this when you were 19? Pretty much, yeah. How long have y'all been married?

Nine months. Oh, congrats. Okay, so you started as singles. Yep. Combined and finished. Yep. Correct. Very good. Cool.

All right, so what kind of debt was this um about 25 000 was my student loans and the rest were car loans okay so each of you had a car loan yeah and then you had the student loans i did yes okay cool very cool you guys started young on this yeah so what's the story are you financial peace babies mom and dad were doing the stuff or what um i was introduced to it in high school, but I didn't really take advantage. Oh, you went to the high school curriculum? Well, we did the envelope system. Yeah?

Yeah. Okay. But I didn't apply it. I went to college, took out a bunch of loans, and just decided when we were getting ready to get married, I didn't want to carry that into our marriage. So I want to take responsibility for it and get it done. So, yep. All right.

And so you look at the fiance and uh jimmy says what uh yeah i don't really want your uh let's get them i want you but i don't want sally i don't like sally may yeah i like you don't like her yeah that's good's good. That's good. That's awesome. Your ugly roommate has gotten to go. That's awesome, you guys. Okay, so I think this is always so unique because you get people on the stage from all different walks of life, stages of life, all of this. But you guys are on the younger side for sure.

And you're like starting out your lives. You're starting out your marriage like this. So what was the first nine months of marriage like having a goal? Because I mean, the way you guys are unified now, people want that have been married 30 years and you guys are doing this, I mean, from the beginning, which is awesome. So what was it like working together for those nine months? I think it was pretty, it wasn't, I mean, it was hard, but it wasn't, you know, we made it easy on each other.

You know what I mean? Just simple stuff like not eating out for lunch with the guys and, you know, we made it easy on each other. You know what I mean? Just simple stuff like not eating out for lunch with the guys and, you know, just following the steps that she told me. He learned early. That's good. What do you guys do for a living? I'm an accountant. I worked heavy construction for a while.

Now I'm in school. What are you studying? Autotech. Good for you. And. What are you studying? Autotech. Good for you. And paying cash as you go, obviously. Yep. And how much did you owe on your car, Jimmy? I think it was about $12,000.

Okay. So you had the bigger car loan. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. All right. Cool. Good for you guys.

Good for you guys. Thanks. Very, very well done. All right. Who were your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you? Once you start doing this, you start telling people. And your family either looks at you and goes, you've lost your mind and joined a cult. Or they go, this is the smartest thing you've ever done.

I wish I'd done it when I was your age. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Definitely our family. My brother actually works here, so he motivated us. Oh, no way. Who's your brother?

Who's your brother? Jaron Smith. Oh, my gosh. That's so fun. Oh, okay. Didn't make that connection. That's awesome. Yeah yeah so he's given us all the material helping us through the steps so he definitely challenged us to stay on it oh

yeah he can ship you cases of the kool-aid oh he does he does trust me this is great very cool who else was cheering you on our parents okay good good so they believed in common sense too then they did yeah they definitely instilled that at a young age. So what do a lot of your friends think? Because you guys are at the prime age, I feel like, when you're paying off your debt. Hey, my perception of the 22-year-old age group is exactly... I had a question. It's exactly...

I was going to piggyback on your question. Piggyback. It's the same question. I'm going to jump on ride here. Okay, go. So my perception is that there's no middle ground. The people you guys age are either doing this stuff or they completely are on the other side and they think you're nuts. Am I wrong?

No, you're right. Correct. Okay. There you go. That's great. So what are your friends saying? One or the other, right? Well, yeah.

A lot of my friends, some went to college straight out of high school and some just went to work, you know. And I think, you know, waiting to figure out what you really want to do instead of taking out massive loans and going to a ginormous college really, really helped. You know, that set up a lot of my friends and guys I hung around with in a bad way, you know. So what, so you guys through this process though where, you know, some of your friends are just paying probably minimum payments or maybe nothing right now because of everything going on, right? So what do they think? Do they think, golly, that's impossible that you guys did that? Are they encouraging with it? I'm just curious their take on everything.

I think it's just a lot of them just have nice cars, buying homes, and we're kind of doing the opposite. We're saving for a down payment. We're not jumping into those things. So we are a little bit outside of the norm. Yeah, yeah. That's awesome. Very cool. Way to go, guys.

Thanks. You guys are amazing. What a power couple, man. You're going to be killing it. I'm just so proud of you. Thank you. Thank you. Very, very neat.

Well, I get to, on this stage and in a lot of other settings as well, run into a ton of 22 and 25 and 26-year-olds. We've got a bazillion that work here from 25 to 30. Out of our 1,200 people here, the average age is under 30. So I get to hang out with very, very smart and very driven and very crusade, mission-minded young people all day long. So it's just given me great hope for the future of our culture and our nation because you do see all the morons out there within any generation yeah every generation's got a percentage of absolute morons yeah and so uh yours included but but you're but sometimes the millennials were the first ones to get a bad we can get a bad rap

but a bad rap about being entitled or arrogant and i find you know i find the same thing with millennials i think there's no middle ground they're either arrogant and i find you know i find the same thing with millennials i think there's no middle ground they're either awesome or they suck you know i mean it's just incredible so you guys are you guys are on the awesome awesome bucket so i'm so proud of you guys well done got a copy of baby steps millionaires for you yes sir that's the next chapter in your story for sure number one bestseller how ordinary people built extraordinary wealth how you can too can you imagine how rich they're going to be at 22 he starts this well i was about to say the man i mean it's like people are listening right now and they're like god what if i had done that at 22 you know so

you guys are awesome i mean you really are and the fact that you sacrificed at this time in life and not saying that the sacrifice wasn't difficult for you guys but you know once you have kids and you're living life and you're used to a certain living and you got to really pull back like but you guys are like it was perfect like it was perfect where you guys are when you started you started together married all of it finished it i mean it's just awesome i think it's the future is unbelievably bright and that's what's amazing we say changing your family tree yeah and there's no stopping that for you guys i mean the math is just going to explode in every which way to your direction so congrats thank you so you your hard work it paid off early and i'm so happy for you thank you

when their parents are jumping up and down because they know they'll never live in their basement oh way to go guys and a copy of total money makeover for you to give away to one of your doubting friends so we'll disrupt their lives a little bit. That's one of our goals. So good for you guys. All right. It's Jimmy and Jade. Very impressive. Akron, Ohio. $45,000 paid off in three years.

Started as two singles and then finished as a married couple, making $50,000 to $100,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Ready? One, two, three. Start over. Start over. Start over.

You can do this. You can do this. Three, two, one. We're debt-free. I love it. That is so fun. That's awesome. Can you imagine?

I can't do the math. It's too far out. Oh, you can't. So from 22 to 62, you invest $15,000 a year. They make $100,000, and they never get a raise. I can tell you that it is north of $10 million. It's probably north of $20 million, but I'm not positive about that. I'm positive it is north of $10 million. Okay? It's probably north of $20 million, but I'm not positive about that. I'm positive it's north of $10.

But if they just invest 15% of their income, if that's all they ever do, and they never get a raise, which those two are going to get raises, they're going to double their income. Sure. They're going to be. And so how wealthy they're going to be. I mean, we're looking at not just millionaires, but deca-millionaires. And they really don't even have to strain to do it. Yeah, that's right. They're not living in a cave collecting lint.

They're just going to be steadily investing intentionally while they live their lives. They'll be baby steps millionaires in no time, and then they'll move on from there. Very, very important. Very cool. Very inspiring. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Thank you. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your work, your mental health, your relationships, your money. It's what we do at Ramsey.

Thank you for joining us. Kevin is with us in Columbia, South Carolina. Hi, Kevin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, Rachel. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'll give you a little back story here. 20 years ago, I'm a 40-year-old divorced father raising a 10-year-old with $25,000 in my retirement,

$40,000 in debt. I got focused. I didn't know about you, but I came out and I'm sitting on about $1.9 million right now with investments in retirement. Way to go. Nice. Thank you, thank you, thank you.

How'd you do that? I'm putting money away. Mutual funds in your 401K? Mutual funds, 401K. I did some trading on a couple of ETFs and just lived below my means. So I got gazelle and tense, as you say. As a matter of fact, I hunted it down and I killed it in my eight. Yeah, you're amazing, man.

Well done. I'm proud of you. Just laser-focused. And that's part of the issue that I'm facing right now is that I'm a member of the SmartVisitor Pro. As a matter of fact, I just got off the phone with them a little while ago. I'm going to go on board with them. But I've driven this boat or this bus for so long on my own, I'm just having trouble with the perception that I'm letting go of things. And I need to kind of get some advice from you or some wisdom

to kind of walk through that process. Well, the SmartVestor Pro, if they're doing their job properly, shouldn't be asking you to let go of it. They should be helping you be a be helping you be a gps while you drive it yeah yeah and this this this individual that we've met with he's he's he's answered all the right questions um and i feel very comfortable but there's just part of me on the inside that says you know you've done this on your own for so long well i do it on my own just my smart pro just gives me some ideas.

And then we talk about it, and then he goes and does the one that I like. So I'm still driving. Okay. He's just my GPS. Gotcha. I might be a little bit more efficient because in the multitude of counsel, there's safety because I'm learning things from him that I might not have known on my own. Or maybe I've got a little better timing on something. Or maybe I don't miss a tax thing that I could have done and I almost screwed it up

and just about missed the deadline and he keeps me from doing that. So it's fine tuning and direction and advice, but we're not handing over the steering wheel. Okay. That's how I look at it. Does that feel different than what you thought no it does it's just that i've driven the bus for so long that it's just you know i feel like it's i've always had control and to be honest we reached out to them because i'm concerned going into the next five to seven years into retirement that uh maybe i don't have myself in the best position for retirement or or mandatory minimal withdrawals. Yeah, but the point is, he can give you the nuances of that stuff,

and you can talk through options, and, you know, he may just give you one or two ideas that are different, and you can look at them and decide to do them or not do them, but what I always do is I'll call up my guy and just go, hey, listen, I'm going to put X number of dollars over here, and we'll park it over there for about four years. Give me some ideas of what you think we ought to do, and he'll bring them up, and I'll pull up a few on my own, and I'll compare them, and we'll talk it through. We'll kind of argue it out like two friends arguing that over a cup of coffee, right?

But it's my money. I get to decide. So, I mean, Rachel, you and Winston have a SmartVestor Pro. Talk about how you all do it. Yeah, I mean, it's all of that. And actually, Kevin, I was in a content meeting right before i came on the show and uh one of the guys on our team we were talking about smart investors and and investing professionals and doing kind of a show specifically on that and he was like yeah the thing i love

about smart investors is exactly what you said david's so funny he said i literally have his number his his cell phone number so i'll text him and be like hey my wife and i were thinking about buying this house and you know and you just talk wife and I were thinking about buying this house. And you just talk back and forth. So it's just having another person in your corner. It's just like having a team. But it's not like you're, yeah, that they're completely taking over.

But I could see the feeling though, Kevin, if you've been pushing all the buttons this long to allow someone else to do that, it's a little bit of an extension of you. So that extension can feel a little odd at first. You've been the Lone Ranger, but here comes Tonto to help. Yeah, but so to do that, it's a little bit of an extension of you. So that extension can feel a little odd at first. You've been the Lone Ranger, but here comes Tonto to help. Yeah, but so I think that, sure, I think there's probably a natural strangeness to the change, which would make sense. But when you kind of just delegate it for them to push the buttons, you still have the say in it.

There's that. And then, Kevin, too, like you said, I'm like, there is something to be said that these people eat live and breathe this world so things that you may not even be thinking about they may be able to just to bring up and you know like it's it's just having that um that extra mind in this in this game with you when someone's telling me about a move that drew suggested your your elp the other day that i thought was just brilliant i hadn't even thought of it in your whole situation it was just he added a it was about a fifty thousand dollar tax savings oh yeah on one little move yeah it was pretty substantial yeah and um but i didn't even think about it and i know it and winston knew it yeah but we just hadn't and he just brought it to the

table so this is you don't ever want to hear, anytime, Kevin, you hear people say stuff like, my guy told me I couldn't buy a car. My guy told me I couldn't remodel the kitchen. Well, your guy is freaking confused, okay? He's not the guy. You're the guy. You know, so when people say stuff like that, I just cringe, because that means they're getting ready to lose their money, and they won't even know why. You know?

And so your guy doesn't tell you anything. You tell your guy what's going to happen. You see the difference? Okay. Yeah, absolutely. And so it is a little bit invasive in that there's people kind of going through your underwear drawer a little bit, you know? But they also can help you make better decisions, you know, overall. But, again, the decision always rests on you. Do I turn left? Do I turn right? but they also can help you make better decisions, you know, overall.

But again, the decision always rests on you. Do I turn left? Do I turn right? I'm still driving the bus. And as long as you keep that control, we never suggest you get rid of that. Anytime someone turns over their money, they're going to be disappointed. I wouldn't, as an investment professional today, within fiduciary world out there, I wouldn't take on a client that wouldn't participate because I think they're always going to be mad because you're never going to live up to their expectations because they're always going

to read something or hear something somewhere that you weren't able to do or didn't do. Right, right. And so if you take over their money and babysit, I think you're setting yourself up for a problem. But if they're in there participating with you, then they made the decision. It's like, you know, when I get Sharon involved on all major decisions, she and I make all major decisions together. And that means she can't say, I told you so, if it goes bad. Because she had her chance.

She was in it. She was in the deal. You know, it's helpful. It's helpful. Fred's with us in Cleveland. Hi, Fred. How are you? Hi, Dave. Thanks for you? Hi, Dave.

Thanks for everything you and Rachel do. My wife and I are recently retired. We are in the giving generously stage. Cool. Our smart investor pro has put us in a good position. We've got about a $3 million of assets. I'm so proud of you. Thank you.

I'm proud of my wife. I'm a little bit short on time, and I don't want to mess you up. Ask your question real quick. Okay. We've got about $120,000 we're looking to give to our children and spouses or possibly use the whole amount to pay off our son-in-law's debt. Looking for pros and cons. Well, I mean, if you give it all to one kid, what are you going to do with other kids?

Well, that's one of the questions. That's a con. We come to an agreement and say, hey, when we finally pass away and the estate gets distributed, you get that much less. Well, that'd be okay if everybody else is. If everybody's got that, if we all talk about that at the kitchen table one night and everybody's cool with it. By the way, our family would be cool with that. Our kids would look at us and go, yeah, that's cool. Because it doesn't affect them it doesn't

affect them but if you yeah you got to get everybody's buy-in you got to get everybody's buy-in and everybody that way they don't how many kids fred how many we have three kids three spouses okay yeah yeah i mean and you know the gift tax limitations right yep okay and so how you can move that money around and i mean the easy fair thing is just obviously a third right everyone gets a three and then the son-in-law that has the debt hopefully puts a lot of it towards it and ends up paying it off but yeah it's it's whatever you can afford to do but you got three million dollars you could give that much to everybody it'd still be okay actually yeah so that's another that's a fourth option that we haven't talked

about but what if you're going to do something that's unequal and the rest of it's going to come out of the estate, just have a meeting and have everybody be on board. That's all I ask. And I think they will be. I got a sense from your spirit that your kids probably have that same spirit. This is The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit theramseyshow.com and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.