The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Use an Income-Based Repayment Plan for My Student Loans? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 18, 2023

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Potts Moving and Storage Studio, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life, specifically your money, your work, and your relationships. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by my colleague, Rachel Cruz, who is fabulously dressed in all of her fall colors.

She has got the kiddos off to school. She's ready for some SEC football. We're ready for fall, Ken. If you're only listening to the show today, you might want to move over to the old YouTube feed at some point because the audience members in the lobby are loving the fall garb. Thank you. You look fantastic.

Thank you, Ken. Fantastic. Thank you, Ken. So we are always having fun together. We're ready to go. The obligatory compliments are out of the way, and now I can do my job. Alan joins us now in Dallas, Texas. Alan, how can we help?

Hi, how are you doing today? We're having a blast. What's up? Good. So, question for you about student loans. I have approximately $225,000 in student loans. Wow. Most of it, essentially all of this from my law degree. So with this $225,000 in loans, there is the payee reclaimment plan.

So essentially after 20 years, they forgive whatever's left and then you claim that whatever's on it as your taxes, you pay the tax liability on that. So I currently pay the tax liability on that so i currently pay the interest on the loan which is roughly 1 225 a month to keep the principal worth that so roughly pay 14 700 a year on that i have 16 and a half years left uh till i reach the end of that program, meaning I pay $242,500-ish over the next 20 years.

Worked out with my advisor that the tax liability, obviously tax code can change, will be around probably $80,000 on that. So coming out to be $322,000 essentially in payments in the next 16 and a half years. So I guess my question is, does it make more sense to utilize that plan and have that, I guess, let the loan ride the 20 years? I have a Roth IRA that I contribute at maximum a year where I can then pull, after it's been in there, the principal for five years, I can pull that out. So I'll have that money for the pay the tax liability saved already at year

20, where I could obviously refi my house, things like that. But just wondering if it makes more sense to pay down the loan as fast as I can now, or to utilize the program. I was kind of interested on your guys' thoughts with that uh hands down pay it now start paying on it now i don't you know when you're using word you know time frames like 20 years 16 years all of it that's a long time alan a long time and i know it's a lot of debt so how much are you making uh as a lawyer now with this, with this fancy law degree? Uh, my wife and I bring home around 230, 230 a year. Perfect.

All right. So Alan, if I were you guys and I woke up in your shoes, I would act like I'm making $80,000 and I'd be paying this thing off in less than two years and be done and be done. Alan be done. No, I'm not waiting around on a program the whole like yeah

it's like the pay as you earn and it's the all i mean it's all this stuff you're hearing all this stuff and that's keeping you guys with student loans around you're making an incredible income you have an incredible amount of debt but i would knock that i mean i would i would do anything alan to to just be done. Be done. I agree. And then all that is yours. You're not doing all this math to be like 14,000 an inch. I was exhausted listening to it. I mean, just be done, Alan. You guys are smart people.

Be done and go live your lives and go be great lawyers and make great money and drive fancy cars and do all the fun stuff. Like, go do it all. Oh, I like that vision. Just don't be in this cycle of waiting around for programs and trying to figure out the math. Just get rid of it. Alan, what's your income potential as a lawyer? The type of law you're doing?

Yeah, so it's the probably, you know, I'm not in big law. So more of the smaller firms. So most likely going to probably around that. Me specifically, that income included my wife, so she currently makes it also probably going to be around that $300,000 to $400,000 most likely. Just because I don't have a lifestyle. You mean together. I'm asking you. That was a really good lawyer answer, but you didn't answer me. What kind of law do you practice?

I do estate planning mostly. So probably that's $400,000. Yeah, so Alan, and I'm going to go, sorry, a step further, not to go off track. No, it's fine. I want to make him more money. I think he can make more money. My point is there's ways for you to make more money to fast forward

what Rachel's saying. I'm in complete agreement with her. And if you got really intense as a lawyer. And I'd pause the broth. I know you're funding retirement and I know your math brain is really large because you're giving us all this math in this call even. So even telling you to pause retirement probably is making you cringe, but I would. I would pause everything and I would live on nothing for two years and I would just be throwing everything at the step because you guys could have this cleaned up. And then with your income potential, Alan,

like what you guys are, you're gonna be millionaires. Like you guys are gonna be doing great. If you finally just say, we're gonna be done playing this math game of figuring out what can I dance around here and let this, no, y'all make great money. And let that work for you. Let your income be the thing

that helps speed up your wealth building, which it is. Your income is your largest wealth building tool. And so I would go scorched earth, Alan, you and your wife. And I know Dallas, it's a hard city to do that in. It's kind of Southern LA and the lifestyle creep is there. And you guys are probably used to living a certain lifestyle with this money. But man, I would freaking buckle down and just say, lock arms and go. His law degree and his experience and skill set is an opportunity to print money. And I'm not being crazy about this, but you can make more money. And I would be billing more. I would be finding, can I do some freelance legal work? What does a move up the ladder look like to get

to what you said, to get to freedom? And this brings up something that I think is really important. I'm not a doomsdayer. You know this, Rachel. I am concerned about the 40 million plus Americans that are about ready to get hit with a reality that's been paused for a while, and that is student loan payments are coming due in October. And I think it's going to be a lot of pain in this country. And so we've decided to say we're going to jump into this, and we're doing a very important event. It is a free event. It's our Student Loan Debt Livestream, Tuesday, September 12th, 7 p.m. Central. Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Jade Warshaw

are going to be talking about how we got here. But more importantly, if you're here and that's student loan debt, is there hope? The answer is yes. Is there a way out? The answer is emphatically yes. So we want you to join us.

It's a free live stream. Listen, tell your friends, your family members about it. If you know somebody that is feeling the weight, the pressure, the stress of those student loan payments coming due, please join us. September 12th. It's a Tuesday night, 7 p.m. Central. Here's where you get the details. It's free.

RamseySolutions.com slash studentloans. RamseySolutions.com slash studentloans. RamseySolutions.com slash studentloans. It's an important night, an important conversation. Don't miss it. Hope is going to be there. RamseySolutions.com slash studentloans. We'll be right back. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your money, in your relationships, and in your work. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz. The phone number to jump in on the conversation is 888-825-5225. So here's a quick question for the audience.

Who likes free cash? I'm waiting. Me. My hand is up. I hear the hands. I hear the hands. I hear the hands going up all over the place. Seminar. Lobby. Good.

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ramsaysolutions.com slash giveaway or ramsaysolutions.com slash store. So there you go. All right, let's get to the phones. Julie joins us now. Oh, Green Bay, Wisconsin. The Packers. The frozen tundra of Lambeau Field. Do you know what any of that means at all? Nothing? The Packers, Lambeau Field, yes. All right.

But it's my favorite, Ken. You know, when you host with Ken and a city comes up, it's like, oh, the old empire state of mind new york i get a little excited i like the boys playing dallas and right i like the references we got dallas coming up next he pronounces them right like an old man thank you very much there it is all right hey you know what i can't help myself. Julie, are you a Packers fan, Julie? Hi, Rachel and Ken.

I guess I have to be because I live in Wisconsin, right? Right. I know. I actually live a little south of Green Bay. Right. You claim it. They give us a general area, and so I got a little excited i could tell julie that you could care less whether the packers win or lose it doesn't i don't think they want to spell oshkosh

so oh you're in oshkosh i am is that where oshkosh was founded i don't think so in oshkosh yes is that right the oshkosh clothing brand is from oshkosh Bacchus, yes. Is that right? The Oshkosh clothing brand is from Oshkosh, Wisconsin? Yes. Julie, I'm so glad you called today. Julie, Rachel knows this. Filled with knowledge. You made my day because I'm going to go home and drop that in the conversation tonight with my wife. I'm going to be like, did you know that the Oshkosh little brand we buy for kiddos is from Oshkosh, Wisconsin.

Is it Oshkosh? Why am I saying Oshkosh? Is that right? It's just Oshkosh. Well, that was the commercial. Okay, okay, good. Just making sure. It's the name brand.

Oshkosh is the name of the clothing. That's it. That's it. Okay, all right. See, you get financial wisdom, you get work advice, you get relationship advice, and you get the little trivia fact that could help you out at the local bar. Yep, never know. There you go. All right, Julie. Julie, we're here for you. How can we help you get the little trivia fact that could help you out at the local bar. Yep, never know. There you go.

All right, Julie. Julie, we're here for you. How can we help you now that we've wasted your time? Oh, no problem. It's fun to talk about Wisconsin. Yes. So I am finally getting my divorce. Oh, no.

Finally, it's next week. Oh, gosh. It's been a long time coming, and I think we're just both ready to be done. The lawyers split everything and we were very amicable people. So I just kind of want to just run it by some Ramsey folks here. What to do with my settlement. So I'm on baby step two. I've paid off since the spring. I started with Ramsey and I did take a course. Financial peace. Yeah. Thank you. And I've paid off about ten thousand dollars good for you Julie yeah and I had been starting on it before I found Ramsey so it just kind of like energized me

and made me feel like I could really live how I want to live instead of kind of living the normal American life love that Julie that's. That's awesome. Yeah. Yeah. So I only have about a little over $5,000 left in debt. Good for you. I will be getting a cash settlement of just over $30,000. So that would complete my step two and three, and I'd have just a little bit extra, but then I'm getting a 401k of about 70,000. And I thought one time, um, someone else had called and, uh, they were going to be cashing that because with the quadro, um, I wouldn't get the extra penalty. And I guess I'm just trying to figure out, right now I'm renting, so what I'm looking at is possibly using that for a down payment

for a house or condo, whatever I end up finding. Yeah, I mean, I think that could be for sure. Great option. Yeah, I don't the idea of keeping 401ks around with employers of exes and all of that is not a great option. And yes, you know, the 10% penalty that you usually would pay before 59 and a half during during divorce settlements. I'm pretty confident you're exactly right. I think you can cash out without penalty. Do you have any retirement savings on Julie? I have a pension that I'll get about $400 maybe a month if I wait till like 65. And then I also have over $100,000 in a 401. For you? I just switched it to a Roth 401. Okay. Oh, good. Good for you.

What is your income, Julie? A couple different 401s. Yeah. What's that? What is your income? My income right now is about $90,000 a year. Fantastic, Julie. Good for you, Julie.

Can I just say, like, everything, you know, in your situation, not just the math and the numbers, but just even your attitude, Julie, through all this is is such on the encouraging positive. And you have a lot of momentum, positive momentum your way through like a really sad situation. So how long was the the whole divorce? How long did all of that take? Because you said we're finally done with it well the once i went to a lawyer it went quickly we were going to do you know uh to our own divorce but it's just so hard uh i think dividing stuff up and knowing legally what all the rules are and stuff sure i felt it was just worth it to do that.

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so that worked out really well. Good. So... And I think... Go ahead. I'm just going to say, I think part of my situation is that I'm actually 54 years old, and really part of all this was because I know I need to buckle down,

look at retirement. I want to enjoy myself in retirement and not feel like I have to live day by day and worry about money to enjoy myself. You don't. Julie, you don't. You are in really good shape. day by day and worry about money and to enjoy myself. Yeah. Julie, you don't. You are in really good shape.

Rachel, I would love for her to visit with maybe multiple smart investor pros in her area just to get a second opinion on that 401k, what would be the best to do with it because you're going to have Baby Step 3 taken care of. Yeah. As soon as you get the settlement, you're debt-free. You're going to roll through Baby Step 2, Baby step three. And Rachel's right, I think, on that. But just do you roll that into your own retirement account on what you already have? I'd love for you to sit with a SmartVestor Pro. If you were my friend and you are my friend now, I'd want you to get a couple of opinions on that. And just look at the tax implications and

everything. But yeah, and if you decide to cash out that 401k without the penalty, that could be a great baby step 3B of the down payment of what you're thinking. You're making a great income, Julie. And I think, yeah, I mean, everything you're saying is on track. And I would continue to fund your retirement. Like you're saying, you have $100,000 in there. So you're going to have such a great head start on your own doing that. But if you hold on the line, if you'll pick up, because I want to give you Dr. John Delaney's new book, it's coming out here in the next few months called Building a Non-Anxious Life. And I think just the healing portion of this for you and the marriage and the divorce is important as

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I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz this hour. We are here for you. Let's get back to the phones. In Phoenix, Arizona, Ray is waiting. Ray, how can we help? Hi there. Thanks so much for taking my call.

You bet. I am on baby step one, and I'm struggling because I don't necessarily know how to manage that feeling of insecurity. I keep getting of only putting a thousand dollars in my emergency fund and then moving on to baby step two. Oh, this is a really good question. So tell us what you are specifically worried about. Cause I feel like I heard you say, I'd like to have more than a thousand saved. Is that what this is really about is exactly how i'm feeling and like i'm feeling like even when i do get a thousand in it um i'm not gonna have my budget where it's cut out where i'm spending every single dollar every month um i just i'm scared something

will come up and a thousand dollars isn't enough to cover and i'll be back in a spot where i gotta take out debt okay so do you have margin feels like you've got margin in your budget right now. I do. What kind of margin do you have? It's going to be fluctuating throughout the year, but I'd say it's a good chunk once I start getting rolling on my debt snowball. What's a good chunk? What was that?

What is a good chunk when you say that? What does that mean? Is that $200? Is that $2,000? It's going to fluctuate. Yeah. Some months it will be like $300. Some months it can be up to $5,000. Okay.

Perfect. And how much debt do you have? $65,000. $65,000. What is that debt? $55,000 in student loans, $3,000 on personal loans, and then $7,000 on a car loan. Okay. And how much are you making a year? $85,000, in between $85,000 and $105,000.

Nice. Good for you. Yeah, good for you. That's great. So yeah, I mean, I think part of that $1,000 emergency fund, there is going to be a level of angst and urgency which makes people go through the baby steps baby step two that much faster because they're like oh my gosh i feel like if something were to happen but the truth is right majority of emergencies that we see uh whether it's new tires on a car you know whatever it is most of it is under a thousand dollars so majority of it is and if not all you do is you pause the debt snowball stay current on everything pile up some cash with what you need fixed and fix it and so just having the idea that there's

going to be no debt the debt is not an option you find a way to get through it all you find a way like you really do so if it's the car that's breaking down you go and get three options and you fix the small part that you can to get trucking along to you save up to fix the rest i mean you just you figure you figure it out and so the problem is that debt has just become such a safety net for people that mentally you can't even imagine you know not having the credit card just in case of an emergency and so that thousand dollars will cover most of the stuff that you need. And if it doesn't, you just pause, pile up some cash, and go through it. And, Ray, here's the deal.

I love how Rachel explained that because if you think about that, and she's right factually, most of those emergencies are under $1,000. But I got to the point when I first started this many, many years ago, Rachel, I didn't want to touch the emergency fund, and my first step was not to touch the emergency fund. It was to rework the budget. Yeah, totally. We paid our four walls, but I mean, I would go, can I cash flow this without touching the emergency fund? And Ray, with the margin you're talking about, you gave us a range of 300 on the low end to maybe 5,000 because you've got a little bit different income flow, you're going to be able to be okay.

And I remember one time, I'll give you one more story here just to drive this home psychologically. I remember it was early on, and Stacey and I, we had no kids, and we bought our first house here in Franklin, and we were on this journey. We had student loan debt. That was the only debt we had. And so we were working it and going after it and all this stuff, and our HVAC went out. And I mean, I'm like, you got to be kidding me. I'd never been through this before didn't know what to expect it freaked me out for a minute and i got the guy out there and he was like all right here's it we can do a small fix and this will get you through and then i started figuring out okay what would if i have to buy a new one you know what how much would that cost and and by just not freaking out and realizing I didn't have to

pay anything right now, I didn't have to get out a credit card and go buy a new unit. There was a way to work through it, cash flow it, and us not go backwards. And we never missed a debt payment that we were paying extra on the loans. Here's my point. When something like that happens, you can always pause and figure it out. You can talk to the people that you get the service from. Hey, let me get on a plan here. It's not the end of the world. I think everybody thinks, I've got to have that credit card. I've got to have – we get this call a lot when someone's got, let's say, they've got $40,000, Ray, in their savings account, and they call us up,

and they've got $38,000 in debt, and we go, empty it. Pay it. Pay it now. Ray, you just felt it right there, didn't you? Yeah. And so this is advice we give all the time because most of those emergencies, the point we're making is you can manage your way through it. You can.

And Ray, I mean, a big part of this too is feeling this intensity of getting out of debt. I mean, like we talk about the behavior change aspect of all of. And you have to do something different to get a different result. And you obviously are at a point that you're not happy with where you are financially. So you want to change your habits, you want to change the way you're looking at it. And the more the faster you attack this debt, and it is gone. And it's out of here, which, you know, you're gonna, you know, if you guys buckle down, and you work extra, you make some more make some more i mean you know to be able to get this paid off in what probably three years uh there's something powerful about having this intensity towards that baby step two which is really key and so we want that thousand dollars fast and we tell people 30 days or less get that

sell stuff do whatever you can get a thousand dollars and move on because you want this momentum to start and the more you kind of like play k okay well we need like five thousand it's gonna take us six months to save it up and you know it just it just drags the process on as your income continues to go to payment so getting to that baby step two quickly and going through it as quickly as possible is really the is your best bet to building wealth from getting to point a to point b getting your income back where it's yours is one of the biggest things you can do so it's the fastest way and again ray you're you're a grown you're a grown-up you can decide you can get off the call and decide to do what you want but this has just been proven over and over and over and over and over and over and over yeah you know You know what you need, Ray? I think Rachel's right. You know what you need? You

need a big win in the next week. So what's the smallest debt? Was it the $3,000 personal loan? Yeah. Well, one is $1,000 left on it and one is $2,000. Okay. So the debt snowball. You're familiar with this, yes? Yes. All right. How quickly could you pay off that $1,000 chunk? How quickly? I've budgeted it in for September. Nah.

I appreciate that. I said, let's just have some fun here and see if we can get you some momentum. What could you do, Ray? Side something here or there, sell some stuff. What could you do to get $1,000 outside of your current income before end of September? what could you do to get a thousand dollars outside of your current income before end of september what could you do uh yeah i mean i'm i need to sell my vehicle and i could easily have that done no that's selling the vehicle i'm not saying we got to jump to that because that's one of your what's that vehicle worth uh i think it'd be i think it's worth around

like eight thousand right now and i've got 7 000 left on it yeah but then you got then you don't have a car i have another vehicle that i get it it's a work vehicle that i can use for oh there it is the ray of hope we needed oh i see what she did there folks a little word do it do it right do something crazy like sell the car you'll get a thousand bucks you'll yeah oh my gosh you'll have we knock out two debts with that one with that one sale what's your car payment right now on that uh 235 and i'm paying 150 in insurance boom you just gave yourself a raise yeah the car's gone the The personal is gone. You're taking a little bit out of that student loan, and you're on, I mean, you're getting there.

Ray, you with us? Yeah, it's hard. I haven't even got through Baby Step 1. That's the hard part. I just need to do it. Sell the car and get Baby Step 1 done. Yeah. Dude, rip the Band-Aid off.

Just do it. You've got to just decide. It's one of these things. It's going gonna feel so good who was i watching on instagram it was some some health guy he's like oh no no you know who was it was tony robbins talking about some health guy talking about his workout or something oh yeah and he's like there's no there's no negotiation you just do it you just have to do it oh there's no negotiating yeah just just just jump in just do it. Just do it. Just do it. So Ray, well, Tony Robbins.

Cold plunge. Just do it. Jump in the cold water. Just do it. It's going to be great. By the way, I love what you did there. What? I'm going to call this segment Wordplay with Ray.

I see what you did there. Do you remember what you did? Ray Ray. Yes, I do. I know exactly what I did. I call you Ray Ray. All right, folks. Ray's going to do it.

It's going to be fun. Come on, Ray. How many of you need to just do it? I love it. This. All right, folks. Ray's going to do it. It's going to be fun. How many of you need to just do it? I love it. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined by Rachel Cruz. The phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225.

Our scripture of the day comes from 2 Chronicles 15.7. But as for you, be strong and do not give up, for your work will be rewarded. Oh, this has got to be a Rachel Cruz-themed quote of the day. Ooh. They always pull good ones for me. Vera Wang. Oh, thank you, gentlemen.

How about that? A little fashion. When you have a passion for something then you tend not only to be better at it but you work harder at it too that's a ken rachel combo because that's my jam that's what i do here at ramsay's i want you to find work that you really really love have a passion for because you're going to make that unique contribution vera wang great style would you say she's more known for her wedding wedding yeah? Yeah. That's her thing? That's how I think about her. Glad to know that I got that one right. I was a little nervous stepping out there on the end of the diving board. Did great. Fantastic

stuff. All right, let's go to Fort Worth, Texas now. Judy is there. Judy, how can we help? Hello? Hello, Judy. Hi, this is Ken. It is Ken and Rachel. And Rachel. Yes. I love Judy. Yeah, how are you today? Good. I had a good interview for, it's a temp job with a school. Great. Yeah, and it could lead to other jobs, so I'm encouraged about, you know, the opportunity. Way to go, Judy. That's a good report. That made my afternoon. Oh, good. Yeah. Well, my question is, I have a pension.

It's just, you know, I wanted to know if, because I'm paying about $1,600 a year in interest on $13,500 of credit card and line of credit debt. Okay. And, you know, the interest went up you know because of the prime rate and so what i'm wondering is if i should take money out of the pension about half of it out of the pension um and just you know like take out seven thousand the first year and seven thousand the second year so i don't pay a lot of taxes. And I figured out that the taxes on it would be, um, they're going to, they're going to send 20% to the IRS, but because of the fact that I don't make that much, uh,

especially working temp, um, I'm figuring I'd get maybe half of that back, half of the taxes back. So that's my question is, is, you know, to save on the interest, should I pay off that $13,500 out of the pension in two years' time? Judy, how old are you? That's around 65. Around 65, okay. Only Rachel could ask that question. I am 65. Yes. All right. And how much are you making? Well, that's the thing. I'm just currently in a temp job that I'm getting about $580 a week. Okay.

Okay. What would this job pay that you interviewed for today? They didn't discuss salary, but it would probably be comparable because it's the same number of hours. And it might be a little bit more because because of a dean's office. Okay. How much is in your pension? $31,000. Okay. Any other retirement that you have? Any other savings? I have a thousand. I made the baby step. I also have $460 for an annuity that I took 10 years ago to get my medical paid for for life. Okay. So you have that cash and that's it. Okay. Because my goal for you is I want you

debt-free and starting to build up more of a retirement, but that is going to require still you working and bringing in that income to require still, you know, you working and bringing in that income to knock out this $13,000. So are you living off the pension right now? I have been for 10 years because I took it early to get the medical pay for. Okay. Okay. And how much? Yeah. I'm out of pocket with the medical. And how much is coming into the pension to you each month?

40. 40? 440. Oh, 440. 440, okay. A month is what you're getting from that, yeah. Yeah, I really want to keep that pension just in place, Judy, just for your retirement's sake

and have you knocking out this $13,000 from this job that you have and maybe even being able to work more hours and doing what you can to get this $13,000 paid off so that you're not touching that pension because you want to continue to be able to have that into retirement. So that's my knee jerk to guide you on. Yeah. Well, being able to do that is down the road because this temp job is going to be nine months and it's going to be 29 hours a week. Okay. So I won't be able to, I'll just be able to make the minimum payments for the next nine months. And I've taken the Microsoft Office suite classes, and I'm almost done with that. And so I'm going to sit for the certification. And then this job has a lot of training

that would enable me to get a better job. Hey, Judy, can I ideate with you? Can I throw an idea at you that I want you to be open to? Would you be okay with it? Sure. I think you're worth a whole lot more money than you're getting paid. And I want you to change your mindset from, well, I've got to do this temp job for the next nine months. No, you don't. That's why it's a temp job. You could leave it tomorrow. And I want you to be thinking about what I've been reading. Okay. I shared this on my show recently. Fort Worth, Texas is one of the fastest growing cities in America. You know this, yes? Judy? Fort Worth, Texas is exploding. You live in the greater Dallas area, whatever you want to call it. I think you ought to be

thinking about an in-home nanny position or something like that with some wealthy families. My wife and I, about six years ago, hired someone your age to come in and be there when the kids got home from school. She did meal prep, light, very light cleaning, just tidying up, laundry, stuff that when Stacey was a working mother outside of the home, it was a massive, massive value to us. And she made sure the kids did the homework. And let me tell you something. You just look that up. You can be making really good money.

$30, $40, $50 an hour potentially because you're gold to a family, a young family that may have two working parents. I want you looking at opportunities like that. What a great environment that is. And all of a sudden, you're making really great money in a great environment. What were you doing in your job before, Judy, before you retired? I was an assistant at a university. And I've been an admin assistant since then at a nonprofit company. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, the skills are just thinking outside the box like what you're saying ken because i do think but um not everybody's a good cook i don't want well wait a second don't don't let me hang that on you don't let me hang that you got to cook the point is could you take care of kids no you can't? No. Okay. All right. I'll leave that one alone. Struck out hard on that one.

Well, I just wonder if there's an admin. I just wonder. I'm sorry. I don't. Don't be sorry. But to Rachel's point. When I was little, I didn't even babysit. Yeah.

My daughter has worked on me to try to get me to get on my granddaughter's level. It's just. That's okay, Judy, but you were a mom, so you're selling yourself a little bit short. But to Rachel's point... Just thinking outside the box, Judy, I think is what we're trying to do, because we want you to... Because also, this pension of $31,000, you know, you can't just live off that. I mean, we want more in your retirement to enjoy retirement than just that as well. So there's going to be some... I want you to raise the level of what work you're looking at. Even an executive assistant,

you've done it in the nonprofit world. Let's get you in the for-profit world. Let's get you out there where you can make more money. No, you're coming at me with all these, but this, but that. Listen, Judy, you're 65, you're able, and I'm trying to be kind here. You have got to increase your income right now. Robbing your pension to pay off some debt is not a good move for you, period. And you've got to increase your income and you can because you've got to build yourself some margin. That's what I'm getting at. You are worth more than just settling for a temp job that's giving you 29 hours a week. Okay. That's what I'm trying and listen i'm trying to

cheer you up and go hey you have got a whole lot more to offer you're not 95 you're 65 okay you got it yeah i i do all right then get after it thanks for calling judy we're for you we want to see you have a quality quality life life here in these next few years. Oh, my goodness. Great opportunities. Here's a quick message for everybody. Don't limit yourself. Keep looking.

Don't limit yourself. Rachel, great, great fun today. Always good to be with you. Always, Ken. Thank you, America, for listening. Yes, thank you. James Childs, our fearless leader who somehow keeps the train on the tracks. Hey, we'll be back before you know it. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, folks, Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts

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