The Ramsey Show - App - Should I Wait To See What the President Does Before Paying Off My Student Loans? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 12, 2021

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Ramsey Show, where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. I am Dr. John Deloney, joined here with best-selling author and all-around good human being, Ms. Rachel Cruz. And we are taking your calls on life, on money, whatever's going on in your heart and mind. Give us a shout, 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Rachel, how's the family? How's everybody?

How are we doing? We're doing good. Yeah? I'm trying to think. Yeah. Our kids are in school, so I feel like that changes the game. Mine too, yeah. I know not everyone around the country right Our kids are in school, so I feel like that changes the game. Mine too, yeah. I know not everyone around the country right now, so I still think about all you moms that

are having those computers up and doing online school. And the dads that are making home offices in their laundry rooms. So when the kids are in school, it's a great thing. It's a whole different world. So we're doing great. That's awesome. We have awesome teachers. Awesome teachers. But no, yeah, it's great. Winston and a whole different world. So we're doing great. That's awesome. We have awesome teachers. Awesome teachers.

But no, yeah, it's great. Winston and I are doing well. Very cool. Talking about marriage, because tonight's... Is the big event. Is the money of marriage event, which I'm so excited about. All right, so tell everybody what's going on this evening. Yeah, so John and I will be hosting.

I say hosting. Teaching, talking, hanging out. Yeah. Kind of like a hangout. I know. We want to make, it's going to be fun, you guys. That was like John and I's number one goal about tonight. We want you, we have a lot of fun.

We have things we want to say. We have an important message to talk about. How do you get united with your spouse when it comes to money? And if you are, how do you elevate that? How do you really dig in? How do you have these vulnerable, great conversations? You know, we're going to talk about some really great, rich stuff. But also.

But also. It's going to be really fun. I feel like the last thing on earth I want is to sit down on a couch with my wife, hold hands, turn on the TV, and have somebody just lecture me for two hours, right? That just seems like the worst possible thing. It's like the best Valentine's evening you could have. It's the least romantic. The last thing I need is something else to make my life less romantic. I'm already working from home, right?

Parents all over the place, kids. I don't want to sit there for two hours and have somebody lecture me. So we set this thing up. It's going to be a blast. And our friends George and Courtney are going to be there, too. It's just So we set this thing up. It's going to be a blast. And our friends George and Courtney are going to be there too. It's just going to be a good time. It's going to be a fun evening.

And we're getting into some topics that Ramsey has not traditionally gotten into. John is forging the way. Is that a phrase? That's not super a good way to say that, but we're going to be talking about our romance man our intimacy man our how we are communicating with one another when things have gotten hard this last year things were hard before this year that's just exposed it was already hard

and so we're not going to flinch away from any of the challenging conversations we're gonna take live q a during the show so john's really shy john deloney's really shy if you haven't felt that and so he's gonna kind of tiptoe around some subjects you haven't been in all these meetings rachel for the last year i've had to i've been working it with other therapists or with professors or with other crisis people for so long that it's not weird to be like, oh, I'm so sorry. Tell me about your sex life. How are things going?

And when we're having these conversations here, everyone's eyes bug out. It's like 401, 401, 401, right? 401k, 401k. 401k, 401k, 401k, right? So we are in new territory. But those are real questions that people are struggling with. Oh, yes. Well, what's funny in my line of work, if someone asks me a money question outside of office stuff,

they're like, well, we're thinking about doing this. I'm like, okay, well, how much do you guys make? And they're like, what? And I'm like, oh, sorry. Yeah, people don't talk about that either. Yeah, you don't talk about how much you make.

I don't think about it. That's exact. Oh, I love that, too. So funny. So funny. Yeah, I don't talk to my friends about how much they make. That's a great idea.

I haven't even thought about that. No, and I don't say it, obviously, to like... No, it's just automatic, right? Yeah, I'm like, well, how much do you make? How much debt do you have? I love it. So anyway, go to like... No, it's just automatic, right? Yeah, I'm like, well, how much do you make? How much debt do you have? I love it.

So anyway, go to DaveRamsay.com slash events. Get your tickets. We can't wait to see you there. We have exceeded... They gave us this, like, hey, here's our goal, right? Here's what we want to have. Sweet, John and Rachel. I wonder how many people...

So they set a goal that was, like, realistic, and... We are way past that goal. We are way cooler than anyone gave us credit for, John. Thousands and thousands. Please join us. DaveRamsey.com slash events. Make a dinner tonight. Whoever doesn't usually cook, you make the dinner.

And then you all sit down. Get the kids to bed early. You know what? I'm even giving you permission. Put them on a screen in another room. Just have them go away. We start at 7 o'clock. And just take this time to be with you all two together, you and your spouse. Be there together and enjoy each other.

Enjoy some new content and have some laughs along the way. All right, so let's grab one call here. Let's go to Chris in Boston. Chris, what's going on? Hey, guys. It's good to speak with you. I've got a money question for Rachel and a higher ed question for Dr. John. All right. Bring it. All right. So money questions first. I'm in baby step two. I've been doing it for about two years and I've got about three more years to go.

$163,000 worth of student loans plus a motorcycle and a car. But yeah, everything's paid off except for my student loan. I've got $90,000 left to go. So I've paid off $2,000 in the last two years. Way to go, man. Great job, Chris. Thank you. So as I was reading the total money makeover a month or two ago, I came across a sentence that made me question whether or not I should be investing. I believe Dave wrote that if it's going to be a longer baby step too, you might want to do small investments while you're doing it.

Because if it's going to take me close to three years to finish paying everything off, I'll be 32 years old and all I'll have is, you know, $3,000 in a Roth IRA. Whereas if I invest $200 a month for the next three years, it'll only push my payoff date by maybe three months. And I'll have at least a whole nother year's worth of investment in that Roth IRA. I don't know what you think. Yeah, so I hear that. And that mathematically is all correct but there's this visceral emotional sacrifice that i want you to have which i feel like you have it because you've

already paid off so much student loan debt already but yes i our rule of thumb black and white answer here is pause investing and everything goes toward the debt and that that's our answer all the time. So even that sentence, I would have to even go back because honestly, I don't even remember him saying that. I think it was on page like 128. 128. Well, I'll look it up. We're talking to Good Will Hunting in Boston. I know. But no, and you're still young, Chris. I mean, maybe we tilt the conversation if you're 65 and you have no retirement or anything. But even then, my advice would be, no, you want to get this debt out of your life.

And so, Chris, you have time. I know it doesn't feel like it because you think, oh, I'm going to be 32. I'm going to be so old. You're not. You're not. All right. So what's your... Oh, go ahead.

And the amount that... Oh, yeah. We're running out of time. Go. You sure? All right. Okay. What's your higher ed, Christian?

Chris? All right, okay. What's your higher ed, Christian? Chris? All right, so once my debt's all gone, I plan to cash flow a degree, a master's degree, at least in psychology. And my side hustle is that I coach two swim teams. And, you know, there's a huge need for counseling for our kids, and most of them don't have access to it. So my bachelor's degree is in psychology. Yeah. kids and most of them don't have access to it. So my bachelor's degree is in psychology. And I didn't know if you knew anything about the field of performance psychology or maybe just a

master's in counseling would be sufficient. Yeah, I think I would start with a master's in counseling. And when you move into those type of performance psychology or child psychology, that's when you're getting a clinical degree, which is at the doctorate level. I think you are great to go in and get a master's in counseling. You have that experience working with kids in that coaching area. So it's going to be a natural link there. And then you can do continuing education on the back end to get some specific things about working with kids and sports. But yeah, get that master's in counseling. We need more people working in mental health who love their neighbors. You're the guy, man.

Thank you so much. This is The Ramsey Show. You've got a lot on your plate. A job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family. While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, for your health care. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you.

That's chministries.org slash budget. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Dr. John Deloney, joined with best-selling author and good human being, Rachel Cruz. I probably should stop calling you a good human being. I know. I like the title. It makes me feel... She was texting Winston during the break saying... I'm a good human being. I'm a good human being.

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All right, today's question comes from Lindsey in Georgia. This is a big one. I cannot wait to hear what you have to say about this, John. I'm the sole earner, mom of three and three stepkids. My income ranges from $100,000 to $200,000, and we've paid off $200,000 of our initial $380,000 of debt in the past three years.

Amazing. My husband is a stay-at-home dad due to COVID and thinks that we should be spending more money despite getting $200 a week. I pay his child support and his tuition. He is a good roommate, but a terrible husband.

He has withheld all affection in the past years and prioritizes Netflix over me. I can withhold spending can I withhold spending money until he agrees to work on our marriage.

We had counseling but he would not follow up. I'm so exhausted lonely and depressed. I resent feeling I am good enough to work 60 hours a week

to support him but not good enough to be loved there's a that's it's a lot there that's about a year's worth of work here there so to answer there's one question in here which is can i withhold spending money until he agrees to work on our marriage the answer is no no anybody. Anybody who gets into the business of withholding, whether that's I'm withholding affection, intimacy, I'm withholding information, I've got secrets, I'm withholding fears, I'm withholding money. Red flag. It's not even a red flag, it's like this giant neon sign,

right? Yeah. This feels like resentment and this feels like this relationship. It actually feels like this relationship is over. And like you mentioned it, we're roommates now. He's got a good deal. I got a good deal.

And I'm just exhausted, lonely. And the good deal on the roommate stuff is run out, right? I don't think this is a money question at all. No. So let me just, let me go high level money and then I want you to dig into this because I am curious all of your thoughts.

So just a couple of things, Lindsay. And again, this is all the symptom of a bigger problem. So what I'm about to say is not going to solve your life here. But even saying his child support, his tuition, it seems like, you know like I give him $200 a week. You guys are not a team. It is a his and her viewpoint. And a little bit of it sounds like you're being his mom. That's exactly right.

And nobody wants to have a romantic relationship with their mom, right? I wish there was another way to say that. But he's being mothered right and he's acting like a five-year-old who needs a mom right and so now you get in this weird dance because he needs to he needs to to buck up too like this isn't all your fault lindsey yeah we're not picking on you but you do have to realize even the language you use shows where you guys are at in the marriage, even just in the question, which is fascinating. Okay. So it becomes a dance, right?

It becomes, I feel like she's always telling me what to do. She's acting like my mom. And then that shuts off all desire, right? Which then leads to, I'm just going to retreat and hide in front of Netflix and complain about not being able to go out with my friends, which then he's acting like a five-year-old, and then she has to, right? Somebody has to say stop. Somebody's got to just, as Terry Real says,

you've got to turn and stare the forest fire down. You've got to look at both of you've got stuff in your past that you've all got to deal with. Both of you've got six kids in this house. You make great money. There's a part of me that believes you think you're better than him because you make that kind of money. There's a part of me that believes you think you're better than him because you make that kind of money. There's a part of me that thinks he feels like he's a loser because there's so much here.

And at the end of the day, you said it best. I'm so exhausted, lonely, and depressed. Rachel, I've heard those three words over and over and over this season, right? If your partner will not go to counseling with you, if your husband or wife, girlfriend, boyfriend won't go, you're left with one option. And that is to control what you can control.

And that is to work on you. So you've got to go right. If, if you both had the flu, that's probably not a good one. If you both had strep throat and you go fill both prescriptions and he won't take his medicine, that doesn't mean you don't take yours. In fact, that means you've got to take yours, right?

Because somebody's got to be well around you. That's good. Yeah. So spend the time, the money, the energy to get refilled. It's not happening here. My hope is, my hope for this marriage is that when she starts working through her challenges, which are bigger than him, bigger than this mess, that she will get some new skills and some new tools that will give her some clarity on her next path

and hopefully will give her some clarity on how to engage him a little bit differently, that he might be able to hear it. She might have peace in her heart, right? She may be able to start acting outside of this marriage. And that sounded weird. Not act outside the marriage, but start having, right? You're going to start exercising again.

Start taking care of yourself. Start having friends and community members. Go get reengaged with a local church or local community groups or whatever that looks like. And my hope is that your husband will see that and say, I want that, right? Blaming and criticizing and yelling never have solved a problem in a marriage, right? And I love that. Control what you can control. And I love that control, which you can control.

Cause I think that's one of the most frustrating things in life. We talked about that, you know, even last hour, but it's like, yeah, if you, you,

yeah, you don't have an option, right? You're not going to just like absolutely drag him. You can't physically drag him. And even if you did, instead of him in a room with a counselor, it's not going to do any good,

right? He's not going to, he, he chooses to hear it or not. So, so being able to control what you can control. But Lindsey, I'm so sorry. This is a story for a lot of couples

out there are in this. And that's one thing I'm excited about our event tonight, to hopefully bring a level of clarity and tools to people. Because it's tough. But thanks, Lindsey. Thanks for your question. Alright, let's go to Sean in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. What's up, Sean?

How we doing? Hey, guys. How's it going? Doing okay? Doing great. Yeah, we're doing great. Good, good. My question is, my wife and I are going to be first-time homebuyers,

and we're working with a credit company to get our credit up to where we need to be to get approved for a loan. And we had a deadline of April 1st, and it just seems like the credit company is kind of dragging their feet a little bit, and I'm wondering, on paying certain debts off, if there is a faster way to go about getting our credit scores up to where we need them to be, how do we go about doing that? Sean, are you working your way out of debt currently? Yes, it's not much debt. It's under $8,000. Okay. And have you been working the plan? Have you been getting out of debt in the last, you know, 18 to 24 months, paying off debt?

Within about the past 12 months. 12 months. Okay. So here's the deal with the credit score. Your credit score mathematically is made up on how you interact with debt. So the fact that you guys have stopped going into debt and you're paying off debt, your credit score is going to lower. That's what's going to happen.

Now, it will be basically to the point that it's not a zero, but it gets to this point where they can't calculate it anymore. After about 18 to 24 months, which is about enough time that I want you guys not buying a house right now. I want you to pay off that $8,000 and get a fully funded emergency fund before you go and purchase a home. So my first rule of thumb, Sean, is I don't think you guys are in a place financially where I would advise to even be a homeowner. I would continue to stay where you are or rent for the time being. Okay. That's what we're doing now. We've been running for four years. Yeah. And I would... You're close, man.

And it's frustrating. I know it is. But I would... Because what happens is when you still have this $8,000 debt over you, you have no savings. You go move into a home and 60 days in, you're heating and air breaks. And you're like, well, what do we do? We have no money. I guess we got to go take on, you know, take out debt to repair that. Or if it's on a well, like there's like, right. And the well goes bad. We got to, we got to, we got to get water. So we got to take out that, you know, and so it ends up being a curse in your life versus a blessing. And I want a home because home ownership is so expensive and I know it's frustrating to rent. I know it feels like it's just money going down the drain, but it's not. You guys are being wise. You're being wise. I promise. Stay in it until you're out of debt

and you have that fully funded emergency fund. So my wife and I bought a house back in August, inspected, great. We even had some exchange with the homeowners. Awesome. And within the last four or five months, new roof, new driveway, new, right? It just happens, right? It's expensive. It's so expensive. It's never going to be us. It is going to be us, right? So I love that.

It's so hard to rant. We did it. We did it. We did it. Just hang in there. You're so close. You're so close, Sean. Do it the right way, man.

That way you can sleep with peace. This is The Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. We're taking your calls on your life and your money. I'm John Deloney, joined here with Rachel Cruz. Let's go to Silas in Munis, Indiana. Silas, what's going on, man? How can I help?

Hey, Rachel. Hey, John. Thanks so much for taking my question. You got it. So I just got engaged back this previous December. Nice. Congratulations.

Hold on, Rachel. Nice. You said that nice. Well, I thought December, a holiday engagement. Oh, yeah. It all went through my head. Was it a Christmas engagement? Yeah.

It was the day after Christmas, actually. Oh, day after. Well played, man. Nice. Nice. That's where that came from. Did she know it was coming? She kind of, I mean, we talked about it, obviously, obviously but no she was very surprised but it was

that when i did it was when i did it way to go so fun all right i'll leave you alone go for it so what's up man um well so like i said just got engaged and we're planning on getting married in the end of august okay uh so i'm finishing up my last semester of my undergrad um and i i don't have any debt, so I myself am currently on baby step four. My fiance graduated last May, so she's been working for a year, and she did have a considerable amount of student debt, and so she's been working to pay that off as quickly as possible, and she's really been doing a great job.

I mean, it's been amazing to me, honestly, how much she's paid off during that time even. And we both have enough money saved up right now to fully pay cash for our wedding in August. My question is, once we got engaged and we had set a wedding date, I had stopped my own investing and started kind of setting that money aside in my savings so that once we get married, I can take that chunk of cash as well as my fully funded emergency fund and put all of that money towards the debt since at that point I'd be on baby step two with her. Am I thinking through that correctly and am I doing the right thing or should I still be investing myself and be on baby step four right up until we get married.

I mean, because you're so young, Silas, because of your age, a few months isn't going to make or break it, honestly, on the investing side. So honestly, I think that's a great job. The only word of caution for anyone else listening is, you know, you go through the process of stopping your investing, stopping your 401k, all of that, which takes paperwork. I mean, it's a process. And then if something happens and the wedding doesn't go into effect, then you have lost those months of investing. But obviously, you go into an engagement believing that the wedding's going

to happen. So I'm sure, you know, I sure everything's going to be fine. So the fact that you paused it, I'm totally great with. And you're going to have a pile of cash, that emergency fund that you do have. And so you're exactly right. You'll take all of that, and you guys will together start back on baby step two and start working your way out. So I'm curious, how much debt will she have in August, and how much do you have saved up? Like how much of a dent will you be able to make? Yeah. So she, when she graduated, she had probably around 45,000. And in August, she'll probably be down to somewhere between 15 and 20,000.

Awesome. She killed it. You're right. Yeah. She's been doing great. And then I, by that time, and with working this summer after I graduate, I'd say I could probably have around 10 saved up, maybe a little less. That's awesome. That's so cool. I mean, that's a huge, huge head start.

Not many married couples get married and only have about $5,000 or $10,000 of debt. Oh, that's incredible. So you guys will knock it out. You're both motivated. I think it's fantastic. I think you're doing exactly what you should be doing. Great job. Silas, one trap to watch out for. What is something that she is bringing to this relationship that you would say, I'm so thankful she's bringing this. I'm going to have to work on this for the next 2, 5, 10, 15, 20 years. I mean, I think, first of all, she helps me in my walk with Christ. She encourages me to be kind, encourages me to love others well. She really pushes me to grow so that I can lead our marriage well. And so just from that standpoint, the encouragement she gives me, the encouragement she gives me to look to Christ, be dependent on Him,

I mean, that's worth everything. Very cool. So sometimes when folks are getting married, one of you is sitting there debt-free with an emergency fund, the other one's got debt. It's easy to feel like I'm giving all this stuff up or I'm the one making these concessions. I'm going to go ahead and help bail us out

so we can start on a firm footing. And she feels bad. She comes in feeling guilty. I came in and immediately hooked a weight to us. Right, right. And so I want you to go in with that attitude. I'm not saying you are. I'm using you as an example for millions of couples across the country.

You know that she's bringing things too, right, that are so extraordinary to this that you are going to learn and grow from. And so it's letting her know all of the time, we're all in this together, right? This is our show. This is our dance. We're doing this together. You've got this. I've got that.

We're going to be figuring out this is and that's for the rest of our marriage. Five years, ten years. Me and Sheila just had one that came up a few weeks ago. I've been with her almost a quarter of a century. I looked at her and said, I don't think I know you anymore. Keep coming up, Silas. Good for you. Make sure that she

feels like she is the, man, she is the rock star in your world and that she's not coming into this marriage dragging things down. All right, let's go to Leah in Orlando. Hey, Leah, what's going? Where are you? There you are, Leah. Hey, how are we doing? I'm right here. Thank you both. I'm excited to be on the show and to get some advice. I have kind of a mixed question. I am single and I'm 27 and my plan was to buy a home in October, but life happens and I met a wonderful man and he is very special to me and have a great relationship. It's been about a year. And so I'm stuck.

You know, I've got the money saved. I've got 20% down. I've got the closing costs. I've got, you know, everything's going great. And I'm just trying to decide whether or not I should continue with my, you know, dream of buying a home or whether or not I should hold off and see what happens over the next year. That's a good question. Have you guys had any discussions? Leah, are you guys in the same city?

Number one, are you both in the same part of Orlando? We are about an hour apart from each other. He bought a home about six months before we met, and so he does have a home himself. Okay. Have you guys had any of these discussions about where the relationship's going, if you have, where you guys want to be? DTR, that's what the kids call it, right? Have you all had the DTR?

Yes, we do have. We have had that discussion. I can say that things are moving quickly. We're very strong Christians, and we're both in our, you know, middle to late 20s. And so we do see a future together. And I could see us getting married maybe in 2022, 2023. And so I wouldn't think, I would hope not, any later than 2023. Okay.

Well, I mean, gosh, whenever there's a big life change that is coming, it's on the horizon. It may not be set in stone, but you know, hey, I'm going to shift careers as an example, and I know I'm probably going to move closer to the city. Or, man, I want to be closer to family when I have kids, and we want to start a family soon. You kind of know it's a little bit ambiguous, but you know it's coming. I probably would pause because I would love for you, I would love a home to be at least a five-year gig for the most part when you go and buy a home. Three to five years. And so I would hate for you to go through that, buy,

and then you guys decide to sell and all that. You could, and it's not the end of the world yet by any means. You're doing it by the book. But if you do want to pause for six months and rent and kind of just see how it fleshes out, I don't think that's a bad thing. I always like to look at the other side of the risk, which is what happens if you don't? And really, if you keep saving money and you wait six months or eight months,

and then you realize this isn't the right relationship, then your down payment's 25%. That's right. You've saved up. You don't have lost anything except eight or nine months and you're heartbroken. And then you can go buy a house. And so you're not off. it's the risk on the other side feels greater to me so i'm with you rachel i'd wait hang in there hopefully he's the one hey hurry up dude make it happen quit waiting around 2021 leah's awesome pull the trigger This is the Ramsey Show, 888-825-5225. It's 888-825-5225. Let's go to Michael in Kansas City, Missouri. Michael, what's going on?

Hey, I'm on 235. Thanks for having me on. What kind of problems did you get from one of your previous callers? I had a super long day at my wife. I was able to graduate debt-free. We were able to pay for our master's degrees, cash. You know, I just have questions. Did you stimulus money's degrees, cash. We've got a lot of other questions. Just give me this money.

Hey, Michael, talk directly into your phone, man. Okay. There you go, brother. Now we can be perfect. Okay. I'm kind of opposite of the previous caller. I had student loan debt from my undergrad. My wife graduated debt-free.

We paid for our master's degrees with cash. But my question is, I've got about $9,000 left, and through the stimulus money coming in and having a child in 2020 with the child tax credit on our new tax return, do I wait and see what the president does, or do I go ahead and pay it off? Pay it off. Pay it off. Pay it off. If we wait around to see what

bill is going to pass through what House and Congress and blah, blah, blah, we'll be waiting a long time. To be able to control what you can control, it's kind of like the theme, I feel like of the show today.

And it's this, don't put your future and your destiny in Washington, D.C.'s hands. So I would 1000% be paying it off. Michael, for me, it's a two part thing. Number one,

I got to see what Rachel's talking about ringside. I worked with some extraordinary. I'm talking about brilliant, high character, wonderful young men and women who are in law school, who intentionally chose to go do public service work instead of going to big fancy firms where they were going to have big fancy salaries. They chose to go do this work because they wanted to serve their communities and because if they did that work, which is hard, grueling work for a decade, the government said, we're going to come in and wipe those loans away.

And then when they got to year eight and nine, that went away. And so they had sacrificed not only their direction in law school, which if you know anything about law school, it's just such a trajectory, right? It's hard to circle back and do something different X number of years down the road. But, man, they had sacrificed five to seven years of major earning potential because they were given this promise, right? And so there's that. I think Rachel's super wise. Here's the other thing. There is something in – I don't share this with everybody, so I'm just going to tell you what's in my heart.

When I took out student loans and I had six figures, man. My wife and I had six degrees between us. And then I went and got another one that the school paid for. But six degrees between us, we had six figures in student loans. It was hard. I didn't realize on some of these loans I took out what I was signing, all that stuff. I was not an educated consumer when it came to that. But at the end of the day, I signed my name to a piece of paper that said,

if you will help me get through college for this money, I will pay you back. And it became an ethical issue for me that I was working good jobs. I had money. Now, this isn't everybody. I was in a fortunate position, but I had jobs where I had this money here, and if I waited on somebody to come in and pay for it, which is my tax dollars anyway, all of our tax dollars, I struggled with that personally. So you're in a situation where you're holding money in your hand right now. I think, in my estimation, if you've got that money, the right thing to do is to go ahead and pay that off. Now, not everybody shares that ethical deal.

That's just me, but that's just me talking to you, Michael, person to person here. But the broader conversation, as Rachel's talking about, is, yeah, man, you don't ever want to wait on those things to make their ways through Washington. Yeah, and depending on getting into the, we don't have to go down this rabbit hole, but the student loan program has really screwed up a lot of people's lives. Now, did they make the intentional decision to go get into those loans? Absolutely.

But the whole program is so frustrating to me on that level that I'm like, I wish it just almost said it just didn't even exist. Right. That we like went the old school way of, of what it looks like to go to school debt free. So when I hear the word relief, there is a part of me that I'm like, yeah,

I do. I want relief for people. I want that. No idea what was there saying it for you. Yeah. Like you, the word relief there is a part of me that i'm like yeah i i do i want relief for people yeah they had no idea what was they were signing up for yeah yeah like you kind of like they just got screwed in it even though i know they signed their name to it but man so there is something that i'm like i don't know how it would be done or what would be done or what that looks like because it probably you know we're not gonna get into the politics of it but i would love a level of relief for people right at some level

whatever that looks like but i'm not going to wait on washington just to deliver it so let's let's get to work because to your point too if you got it you got it you got it yes yes you got it um another thing is i've heard some of these some of these variants of the relief bill have different um things attached to them you're going to owe us this much community service. You're going to owe us this much stuff, which I love. I love some skin in the game on that, right? I think that's good.

But at the same time, Michael, it goes back to an earlier caller we had or somebody here in the lobby. When you take something from somebody and they attach strings to that gift, you're beholden to them, right? That's right. Man, good for you.

I appreciate that question. It's a good question. I know that I can't tell you how many times we get that call. People are all over the country. You're wrestling with, do I wait? What do I do? Do I just stop paying on that because there's no interest now? And some of it may go away later.

I just want to say keep going if you can. And I hope we can get this thing untangled. It's just a mess seven ways to Sunday, right? Let's see here. Let's go to Stephanie inie in bloomington indiana stephanie what's going on hi um so i'm like 25 000 in debt okay um and i i it doesn't probably sound like a lot to you guys compared to other people hey listen listen any amount any amount stephanie is oh there's folks at five000, might as well be a million bucks. So 25 grand is 25 grand.

Okay, okay, fair. So I want to start like the baby steps or whatever. I've been listening to the show like every single day. So I'm like, okay, it's starting to like click with me, but I need to like a boost on how to like go. I have like the $25,000 in debt and I make about $33,000 a year. What do you do for a living?

I work at a state farm. As an insurance person, cool. Yeah, so I just don't know where to start. Yeah, absolutely. No, it's great. Call the right place. It's a great question, Stephanie. I don't know how to start a savings when I have credit cards and stuff to be paying off.

Yeah. It's basically my... For sure. Well, your first step, what you're going to want to do is to get on a really tight budget, Stephanie. So I want you to, we're going to actually give you, we'll give you a membership to Ramsey Plus. So Kelly will pick up and give you that. Because this is our subscription that you can get in. We have the Baby Steps Tracker, Ramsey Plus,

or Every Day, Every Dollar Plus in there that's going to help you. All the Financial Peace videos. Yes, FPUs in there. So take all the courses, all of that. But Every Dollar, the app, is going to be your friend, Stephanie. This is really the starting point because for the first time in your life, you're saying, hey, I actually want to control my money versus my money controlling me. Hey,

I actually want to step into this, change what I've been doing, which is going to be hard, Stephanie. This is not going to be easy. Okay. You're going to get to points that you're going to have to say no to yourself. You're going to get points to say, oh, I don't really want to do this. There's going to be times it's going to be very, very hard. But the key here is understanding change is hard. If you kept doing your normal thing that's comfortable, you're going to keep getting the exact same results that you've been getting and you don't want to. So in order to make a change, you're going to feel that tension.

So when that happens, you'll be like, oh, Rachel, Rachel told me this is it. This is the friction I'm feeling. You gonna feel it um so understanding that emotionally but then yes doing the budget that's going to be your best friend and it's your income minus all of your expenses equals zero but that's going to include some giving and saving because your first goal after doing your budget is to get a thousand dollars and that's going to be your starter emergency funds so that means stephanie you're probably, you're not going shopping. You're not going on vacation. You're not going out to eat.

You're not doing any of that. You're not spending any extra money. You're doing everything you can. You're working extra. So you're going to bump up that $33,000. You're going to work at night. I mean, you're going to do whatever you can to bring in more money and cut expenses at the same time to get that $1,000.

And then you're going to start working your way out of debt. So that $25,000, Stephanie, of debt, what kind of debt does that make up? So I have my car. That's a little over $16,000. And then I have a total of credit cards. That's like $940. Okay. And then I have a $5,000 loan out that I had gotten that

I thought was going to get me out of my old debt, but it just put me more in debt. That's right, girl. Don't depend on anyone else to get you out of debt. You learn the hard way. So, I mean, I would even look at selling the car, Stephanie, paying off that $5,000 first, and then moving up to that $9,400 by sacrificing that lifestyle. So

you can do it, Stephanie. You can do it. It feels like a lot, but now you're on the front end of a fun adventure, man. It's going to be good. Hey, another hour in the books. Thanks to Kelly. Thanks to James. Rachel, thank you.

Everybody be kind to one another. We'll be back soon. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, guys, this is Kelly, associate producer for The Ramsey Show. Did you know that over 16 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.