The Ramsey Show - App - Should My Wife and I Quit Our Jobs To Go Back to School? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: February 8, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Dion is in Bakersfield, California, starting this hour off.

Hi, Dion. How are you? How are you doing, Dave? Finally got the chance to talk to you, and I'm sorry. I'm trying to. This is my first time talking. I don't know how to do all this'm sorry i'm trying to this is my first time talking i don't know how to do all this but i'm trying i've been reaching out trying to reach out to your company for years now this

is my first time well i'm glad you got through how can we help you today i um i just purchased my first home and two years ago i'm trying to figure out a way as a blind person how to pay off my mortgage faster than 30 years. Okay. Okay, Dion. Did you say a blind person? Excuse me. I'm sorry. Did you say a blind person?

Yes, sir. Okay. So what do you do for a living? I receive Social Security. Okay. All right. And how expensive a home did you buy in Bakersfield, California? It's actually right next door in Lancaster, but we paid $240,000.

You said we. Are you married, Deion? Yes, sir. Okay. What does she do for a living? She's a caregiver. She takes care of the elderly. Okay. So what's y'all's household income then? I receive Social Security $900 a month. She receives about $2,600 a month. Okay. And we also

have a side gig. After we moved into our house, she was taking care of one of the people she was taking care of. And their spouse passed away, and we took them in, and we've been doing it. So we take care of elderly in our home as well. And what does that pay? We receive about, we have two patients right now.

We receive about $2,200 straight across money. Okay, okay. So that's about $5,500 a month. Yeah, that makes us a little bit. I didn't think you were paying a mortgage on a $200-something house for $3,600, so this is helpful. Good. Okay, good. So you did that because you had this mortgage and you had to do something, right?

Yes, sir. Good. Well, no. Well, actually, my dad was living with us before he passed away too so that was another reason why we were able to get the house and my wife was receiving they had more patients at the time before the coronavirus gotcha so what's your question for today then i'm trying to find out how to pay off my home faster i've been hearing stuff i can pay it off faster than 30 years.

I've been following you since I was 16. I'm 52 now. So before we go there, Dion, do you have any other consumer debt, excluding your mortgage? No, we don't have any credit card debt. We pay our credit cards in full every month. We own both of our cars. So, no, we don't have any debt at all. So you do have debt. You just pay it off every month. We own both of our cars, so no, we don't have any debt at all. So you do have debt.

You just pay it off every month. Oh, well, I follow stupid people and tell me about credit cards. Because he said he has credit cards and he pays it off every month. Oh, okay. But you don't have a balance on them. So you're going to get debit cards

to replace those. But then as far as paying off the house early, we're going to put you on a budget. Make sure you have your emergency fund in place and start saving 15% of your income towards retirement. Past that, every dollar you can find up to baby step six is going to go towards the house. Unless I miss something, that's where he is. Yeah, no, he didn't miss nothing at all, Dave. I mean, I definitely want to say get rid of the credit card so i mean

because that's going to put you back into debt um eventually i i'm just going to say that so first time there's a hiccup you're going to end up and you're going to look over on those things there's going to be a balance he's right about that but um i think the big thing here is is you guys have done a great job of scrap being scrappy you're hustling you're grinding you're adding you know adding people into your home that you're taking care of. She's working. You guys are doing everything you can do to make sure that you make the payments on this

house, and you've always figured out a way. And so that's good news. And I would just use that scrappiness and not use it as a way to save your bacon every time, but instead be a way that you're actually prospering, and that comes from working the baby steps and doing that with a budget. And, you know, baby step one is debt-free, accept the home. You've done that. Two is an emergency fund of three to six months, or two is debt snowball.

Three is emergency fund of three to six months of expenses, and you move straight up through that process. James is with us in Seattle. Hi, James. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Anthony, thank you guys for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? So my wife and I are considering quitting our jobs and going back to school. She wants to do a career change, and I kind of want to accelerate my master's program. It's a four-year program. It's a part-time program, and I kind of want to get it done in two years. So we were considering quitting our jobs. We make a combined $220,000, and the only debt that we have left is our house, which we owe about $130 on.

So you want to get your master's in what? My master's, it's my MBA. It's an executive MBA. I'm a corporate controller, a financial controller right now. And you make what now? I make $130, and she makes $90,000. And you'd like to be a CFO? Yeah, I'd like to be a CFO.

My goal is by 35. And you think you have to have an MBA to be a CFO? You know, I've been looking a lot, and they usually require like a CPA, which I have, and an MBA. I think that would help with, you know, I don't have a ton of years of experience. Now, my CFO, this is a $300 million company. My CFO does not have an MBA. Oh, gotcha. Yeah.

Just as a heads up. Wow, that's... Yeah, just a heads up. I'm okay if you go get it, but quitting your job to go get it is a bit extreme. Yeah. Jobs. Not just jobs. Jobs.

Because both of y'all want to quit. What is her degree field? What's she wanting to go do? She wanted to be a lawyer, and then she decided that she didn't want to do that. She's got her four-year degree, and she's a paralegal. She actually wants to switch to healthcare management. Okay. And she has a four-year degree, and she's a paralegal. She actually wants to switch to health care management. Okay, and she has a four-year degree in what? Pre-law.

Okay, and what does she do now? She's a paralegal. Oh, now she's a paralegal. Okay, and she wants to move into the health care field, and so she wants to get a master's in that? She wants to get a master's in that? Yeah, she wants to get like a four-year degree in her healthcare management. How old are you guys? Four of her masters in healthcare.

I'm 31. She's 29. Okay. Well, I have a, we have, we share a view of education that with a few rare exceptions, the primary use of education is to increase income and to move into a career field that you love, okay? And so it is not something that you just collect like degrees on a thermometer. And it is not something that you have to have. It is what is necessary for you to go win. And in your case, I would do the MBA as an executive level and keep your position.

Would definitely not quit. In her case, I would probably do the same thing. I'd probably pick up some night classes and begin to move towards health care as a career move rather than just quit your jobs. You're making a great income. I think you can make a more gentle transition than this. And I think you should. Do you know who is a prime target for identity theft?

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Anthony O'Neill, my co-host, joins me today. Ramsey personality. Matthew is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Matthew. How are you? Hey, guys. How are you doing? Thanks for taking my phone call.

Sure. How can I help you? Quick question. I just got done reading The Total Money Makeover. I'm in the middle of a debt free degree right now. Both great books. Really love them. Um, my wife and I are in the process of, um, planning out our budget and looking through our debt and seeing what we owe. We've already got enough money in the bank for baby step one so i guess we'd currently be on baby step two good so in in the total money makeover um i believe you said to divest from your retirement investments

um temporarily no just stop adding well not don't take the money out yeah i'm sorry yeah i i apologize that's okay i'm sorry That's okay. To stop adding. So like between my wife and I, there's probably almost $500 a month, which, but my question is in regards to my son's 529. So I've got a 15 year old son who's actually the youngest of three. I've got two that are in college right now.

One pays for it herself. And the other one we're helping with. The oldest one's got kids and she's single. So she's basically getting college for free through grants and scholarships. So I actively contribute like $100 a month towards this 529. And he's already in high school, and there's not terribly much money in there, about $5,500 in there. But my question is, do we also do the same with that, stop actively contributing in that? What's your household income? Gross is about $150. Okay, $100 a month.

Take home. $100 a month is $1,200 a year. Correct. For three years before he goes to college, it's $3,600. Yeah. Right. This does not solve your college problem, does it? Right.

So that's the answer. What I was actually thinking of doing was leaving it in, and I know bad idea with student loans, but when we were looking at dealing with leaving it in and letting it grow for the other four years and then taking what we have after the additional four years, after the seven total years, and putting that down off of whatever we can't afford. Yeah. Instead, what I would tell you to do is let's work the baby steps.

And if you're reading debt-free degree, you know he doesn't – you don't have to have all the money saved for him to go to college. You just have to choose properly. Yeah. So we're going to work the baby steps. You're going to be – how much debt do you have not counting your home? Numbers-wise, I haven't finished adding it up it's it's over a hundred my wife and I both have student loans and then we co-signed for not co-signed but we have parent loans for my other son actually my student my student loans are actually going to be paid off in May of this year because I'm a government worker so I'll have made my 120 on-time payments.

And then I did talk to, yeah. Matthew, here's the first thing. The first thing, you need to know exactly what are you up against. You need to know your numbers, okay? Before you can really fix this situation, you need to know exactly to the T how much debt that you're in. So this means you need to get on the budget, okay? So that's the very first thing I would tell you. We've got leases on cars,

which we're working on trying to get out of. Good. So that's part of it. We lease our cell phones, which we're going to throw into the snowball and get rid of very soon. The only other mortgage, the only other debt we have after that

is our student loans. Cars and student loans. Okay. Cars, yeah. So you've got to clear. You've got to clear. The point being, making what you make, I think it sounds like you are going to be debt-free except your home by the time your 15-year-old gets to school.

You'll have your emergency fund in place, and I would love for you to put 15% of your income away, beginning with maybe step four towards retirement, and then cash flow his college beyond that. If you put retirement on hold for a couple of years to cash flow his college, oh, by the way, he's going to do all the other things in debt-free degree in order to go to college. Yeah. But you should map out a thing to where you are debt-free before he gets to school,

maybe step two, and have your emergency fund in place. And then with $150,000 income and using the debt-free degree plan, you ought to be able to cash flow his college, no student loans, and I would have stopped your retirement during that time until you get there, and I would have stopped his 529 until you get there, and you're probably never going to restart it because by the time you get there. And I would have stopped his 529 until you get there. And you're probably never going to restart it because by the time you get there, you're probably going to be writing checks for college. Yeah.

And Matthew, have a conversation with your son now. Let him know like, hey, your college experience will be based upon your grades, your scholarships based upon you. So if you really want to go to this particular school inside of Ohio, you're going to have to step up to the plate. Now's a great time to have that conversation with them and make sure that he's reading the book with you because we walk you through the step-by-step process. What are the classes?

How does he prep for the ACT and the SAT? Make sure that he's playing a huge part of that and you're not just carrying all the weight, okay? Because if he gets good scores on those and takes the classes and takes them again and super scores them that's going to qualify him for yet more scholarships he's going to be working while he's in school and he's going to choose a school the two of you together are going to choose a school that you can afford in ohio yeah it's going to be an in-state state school yes uh he's not going to a hundred thousand dollar a year

school no you don't have that money. He's also not driving a Bentley. No. And there's no shame in either one of those. And he might even go to community college for the first year or two to get some of his basics out of the way before he transfers to a four-year. Yeah. So any of those plans and all of those plans get this kid through school debt-free, and you're going to be able to help a lot just out of your monthly budget.

Yes. Because you're not going to have any payments except your house payment by the time you get there. But you're going to have to take the radical steps to do that. I sure hope that your theory on the student loan forgiveness works out. It has not worked out for hardly anyone. Virtually no one has gotten that approved. And so there's, I saw the stat the other day,

I think it's up to 30,000 people have now gotten their forgiveness, but it's 400,000 have applied and didn't. Didn't. Yep. And so, you know, and of course, current political arguments are there's going to be some forgiveness in addition to that. We'll see. But, you know, you've got to lay out a game plan to where you clear this debt these car

leases these student loans these parent loans 100 get your emergency fund in place only then do you restart your 401k and you lay out a detailed game plan to cash flow college using the debt-free degree book and process to do that yes sir and i think it's all possible absolutely uh but basically uh seven years from today yeah three years more of high school four more years of that you know you're gonna be you're gonna have the last one off the payroll yeah and um that's that's what we called it when our kids left they got them off the payroll now they're on this payroll yeah i like that picture though yeah that's it they're off the payroll. I like that picture, though. Yeah, that's it. They're off the payroll.

You can do it. It's just going to have to be very detailed and very intentional. And no wavering and no waffling. Like those cars don't need to be still sitting in the driveway with a freaking payment on them. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Matt and Sarah are with us in Minneapolis. It says on my screen, you guys are debt-free. Congratulations. Thank you.

Well done. How much have you paid off? $141,000. Cool. How long did this take? It took me 17 months. Okay. And your range of income during that time?

We started at about $235,000, and we ended at $280,000. Wow. What do you do for a living? I am in surfboard sales. I'm in physical therapy. wow cool so i'm guessing some of this 141 must have been student loan debts well you guessed right a good amount of it how much was it so the student debt was about 130 000 um and then the remainder, about $7,000 for auto. And then the rest was just credit cards. I'm having trouble hearing you.

You're going to have to get where you can talk directly into your phone. Okay. How much was the student loan debt again? $130,000 for the student loans. Okay. Good. Oh, my gosh. So $11,000 wasn't.

About $4,000 for a credit card. Okay. So tell us the story. What happened 17 months ago that got you guys started on all this? I mean, we really just got sick and tired of being sick and tired. I mean, we have two little kids, and we really just wanted to be able to, be able to, you know, have the future for them that, you know, we wanted for our family. And it was just getting kind of ridiculous because we, you know, had an awesome income, but we felt like we were broke and we, you know, kind of finally just came across some of your books. And actually, we started listening to your podcast.

And we really started getting gazelle intense after we listened to our first debt-free stream. That really kind of hit home with us and really inspired us and got us motivated. And we just got gazelle intense since then. Wow. Very cool. Good for you guys. So you did it, $141,000 in 17 months. That's like $7,000, $8,000 a month.

Yeah. You're chunking on this, man. I mean, this is big time. So what do you tell people the key, the thing they have to know if they're going to get out of debt? What are the keys? Well, the key, the first key for us was 100% the every dollar budget. Well, like I said, maybe take a step back to why.

So we really thought about why we want to do this. And that was so important because so many times during this we would fall off even for like a week and then we would get back to why we were doing it, and that would get us back and motivated. Then we'd use that gazelle intensity when we did have that focus, and then the budget just to keep us on track because, yeah, we were definitely spending more than we were meant to be spending at that moment. Yeah.

So what's your big why? Well, definitely just being able to be outrageously generous. I mean, it kind of started, like I said, hitting home when we just heard all the people on your show saying like, we want to live like no one else so that later we can live and give like no one else. And, you know, we want to be able to do that. And we felt like we were, you know, we should be able to do that. But if we never get rid of this debt, that we're never going to be in a winning situation. And so that was really kind of our big why. Yeah. So what was the hardest thing throughout this journey throughout these last 17 months? The hardest thing. Well, I think, I mean, we just, there were so many, you know, bonus and commission checks

that came in. And I remember just kind of crying like each time one came in because I knew that we didn't get to do anything with it. Like we couldn't buy any cars. We couldn't, you know, kind of do all the things that we saw other people doing, right? And we knew that it just had to go to our debt. So I think that was definitely the hardest thing is just, you know, stop comparing to other people

and just kind of run your race. Yeah, that's cool. But we stuck with it. So good. Very, very good. Very cool. Well done. So now that you're out, how's it feel?

Amazing. I really still can't believe it. I mean, we've, and again, we've heard this on your show so many times, but we've started making such different decisions because of our ability now to not have like $5,000, $6,000, $7,000 going towards debt every month. So it's really, I would like to say, changed our family tree. Yeah. And I was going to say, so most of the student loan debt was from my education. It was just, it felt like there was a constant chain just holding me back all the time

with this. And it finally just felt like I was free and not having that burden on my shoulders at all times. And it's just been so relieving. And we feel like we can make decisions that we never would have even have thought about before um so for example we we just decided uh this month that we're going to start our own business and that is was completely um not even imaginable three years ago yeah yeah wow very cool this is exciting So proud of you guys.

Very well done. Thank you. Yeah, we appreciate it. We took what you said to heart and it made all the world of a difference. Yeah, you guys are incredible. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. There's no doubt that that is the next chapter in your story. You have this fabulous income and you have this ability to control money now instead of it or the lack of it controlling you.

You guys have worked together. You're a team. You've done everything the right way. Very, very well done. Congratulations. It's not a perfect process, but it gets you there, and now you're free. Yeah. So very well done.

Thank you. Matt and Sarah, Minneapolis, Minnesota, $141,000 paid off in 17 months, making $235,000 to $280,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! I love it. Well done, you two.

Very, very well done. Tyler is in Kansas City. Hi, Tyler. How are you? I'm well. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve. You got a little football hangover today?

No, so I am a King Tom fan, so I'm really excited about how yesterday went. Oh, man. You're unpopular in your own neighborhood. Yeah, man. We're going to hit this call right now. How can we help you today, sir? Well, yeah, thank you for taking my call. I've been a big, big fan of your show for a while, Dave, and read the Total Money Makeover as a wedding gift for my wife and I. As of Monday last week, we were officially on Baby Step 4.

I submitted my application or whatever on Fidelity to get my retirement funded. Feels good, doesn't it? Now that I'm on Baby that i'm on babies what was that feels good doesn't it it does but now that i'm here it's like you know i kept pushing to get through baby step three and now that we're here it's like now what that's why that's why i thought i'd give you a quick call um so my question is twofold. I've been reading several books, one of which is Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and he talks a lot about asset generating income, but I know what you'll say to me right now, so I'm going to ask that question. The question I'm having is, I'm wondering, I'm in a career where I work in a public accounting firm where I don't make quite as much as the market pays.

So I'm in a position where I'd be able to leave where I'm at right now for a fairly significant pay bump. Like what's that? What do you make now? What would you make if you left? Yeah, great question. So right now I make $67,000. And I've had several friends leave within the last couple years, and they're both over 100, probably close to 110.

Well, if you could get a quality firm with quality people, why would you not do that? Yeah, so, and I don't know, this is the question that I'm still trying to reconcile, is the thing that we've been kind of hounded on through college. All right. I'll tell you what. You hold on. We'll come back from this break. We'll get the rest of your question. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 13, 11, Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.

Winston Churchill said, Continuous effort, not strength or intelligence, is the key to unlocking our potential. Anthony O'Neill Ramsey, personality, is my co-host today. We're talking with Tyler in Kansas City. He's in public accounting, has a job making $67,000, has the opportunity, baby step forward, just got there, has the opportunity to possibly take a position making almost double that somewhere else and i said well if the people are high quality why in the firm is high quality why would you not do that and you were beginning to explain something to us as we headed into the

commercial tyler what was that yeah thanks for coming back yeah so. And this kind of goes back to what we've been, we being accounting majors, have been taught throughout college is there's a certain threshold that you hit. Like it's almost, you know, it's a five-year benchmark that you hit in public accounting. And at that point, you've kind of earned your stripes and then you've increased your earnings potential. And so it's almost like a long game, a long-term game. I'm trying to think long-term, that if you leave before this five years, you've limited your earnings. But to your point, if I... I'm sorry, I'm confused.

If you stay making half of what you can make, you are earning your stripes how? Yeah. This is a conundrum that I've been wondering. You get a title. That sounds like something from the 1950s. It's very archaic. I know, but it's not. The truth is that the money to be made in your field is not in public accounting.

Long term it would be, but that's 10, 15 years out. Well, building a book of business? Yeah, once you're a partner and you need to put back your book of business and it's much more lucrative. But in the first couple of years, it's certainly not. I see. Okay, so you're on a model where you're trying to make partner much like a law student where they work your butt off, you get nothing for five years,

and then hopefully you can get your foot in the door. Yeah, it's very similar. Yeah, okay. All right. So that's what you mean by that. So if you went the other direction, why would you not be on the same track? You're working for a corporation doing accounting at that point. You're not up for partner.

You're not going to stay in that world. Is that what you're saying? Yes. Okay, so what does a partner make at the place you work now? Yeah, it's kind of a smoke and mirrors question, but I would say probably close to 800, depending on market and clients, but 800 and above. Okay. And you're how far out from that? Oh, 14 years.

Yeah. Yeah. And to be candid, that's not really where I want to live. You know, I'm not real sure where I want to go, but I'm pretty sure I don't want to be a partner. So it's almost a question of is it worth sticking around longer for potential higher earnings outside of public accounting because I stayed longer here, if that makes sense. Yeah. I think I'm moving on.

Yeah. I'm glad you said that, Dave. That's just my inclination. And because I think that the other thing that I see with folks, you know, in your field is, is that there's a lot of entrepreneurial opportunities that open up over time that you use your finance and accounting expertise in. They can even be in a startup situation where you would make even more than you might have made where your partner in a medium sized firm. So there's a lot of different ways your career could bend and twist and turn over the years. But, you know, number one, I think the key thing here of what you said is you don't really like the destination, so why go 14 years to get there? Yeah.

That answers my question. That's definitely something that I've been, you know, in the Ken Coleman episodes and his show, you know, that's one of the things that I often think about as well. It's the old thing of if you climb the ladder of success and it's leaning on the wrong building, oh, crap. Yep. Yeah. You know? Yep. And so, you know, we want to make sure the stinking ladder is leaning in the right place. Now, you know, so what I've discovered is that the economy and the career path these days is a lot more dynamic and a lot more fluid than just one possible path for a given field of endeavor.

I would have never thought I would have been on the path I ended up on with a degree in finance and real estate. It was definitely not my intent to end up going broke and then coaching people on how not to do that. But it worked out okay for me. So it's a twist and a turn, and you pivot, and you play the other position and you were there five years making twice and you were piling up cash during that time, that gives you the option to do other things. If you wanted to take a hard right or hard left turn, utilizing some of those skills and, again, go into an entrepreneurial startup of some kind or start your own public accounting firm, build your own book of business where you is the pod, not baby. Yes. And that kind of a thing. And you've got all kinds of options like that.

And, you know, with an extra four or five hundred thousand dollars in the next 10 years, that would be, you know, it just give you a lot of options. So I just don't think it's going to end up being a straight line to success. And you don't like where the ladder is leaning anyway. So I just don't think it's going to end up being a straight line to success, and you don't like where the ladder's leaning anyway. I'm not staying there. I'm going to go ahead and start looking that other direction. So

maybe you need to live your dream, not your professor's dream. So just my idea. What do I know? I like that, Dave. Open phones this hour. Simon is with us. Simon's in Tallahassee, Florida. Hi, Simon. Open phones this hour. Simon is with us. Simon's in Tallahassee, Florida. Hi, Simon.

How are you? Hi, Dave. Hi, Anthony. It's absolutely delightful to speak to both of you. You too, sir. How can we help? Well, I have a real estate question for you. I'm a young entrepreneur in Tallahassee.

I have student rental business here, and I'm having real trouble finding reliable, affordable contractors, plumbers, et cetera, that actually show up to work and do the job properly. So I was wondering how you went about finding proper contractors. That's a good question, because I had the same question for Dave, son. No surprise. You know, when my son, 15 years ago, was in high school, we were doing a little bit of renovation on our home. And the guy wasn't showing up, and the guy wasn't showing up. And we're coming home one day, and Daniel says, Dad, he's 15 years old.

I'm going in the construction business. I said, why? And he goes, it's a really easy business. All you have to do is do what you say you were going to do and show up, and you have no competition. And it is. It is. I mean, you can make, if you're a contractor, you can make a mint in that world by reasonably pricing and showing up on time and doing what you said you were going to do, keeping your word, and to the point that too many times people don't in that field.

So, Nick, what we have done over the years is, number one, we have settled in, like for our rental properties and the properties that we manage and that we own, we have settled on the fact that in order to lower our aggravation level, we have increased what we spend to get to get a better person so you're you're really not going to get a super cheap contractor and get good work on time without problems it's just i i have not had that as a experience because most of the guys that are in that world they charge a little more because they know that they're the only ones that are going to do the right job on time the way they said. And I'll just pay a little more so I don't have the heartache of having to restart the project four times with four different people that screw it up every time.

So I pay a little bit more. Not a lot more. I don't pay double. I don't mean that. But I just changed my mindset on not necessarily always going with the lowest bid. And the second thing we do is that we are 100% of the time always looking for more contractors. If we have a guy that does painting for us, and we've got a really good one right now. He's an incredible guy.

But we're always looking for another one because I don't know what day he's not going to, you know, at what point he's going to blow up. Yeah, and so if I've got options as backup, I need some bench depth. And so just because I've got someone that does good roofing doesn't mean I'm going to only work with one roofer. I'm going to always have another one on the bench ready to go. And just because I've got someone that's good at building a deck, you know, whatever the thing is that you're wanting done, I want another one in queue. And pay a little more and get some bench depth. And that's about the only way to avoid the majority of the heartache.

Good question. Thank you for joining us. Anthony, good job today. Dave, America, thank you. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily

with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money

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