The Ramsey Show - App - Should We Buy a House Now or Wait? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: September 23, 2021

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Thank you. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Ramsey Show, and it's where America is hanging out and having a conversation about your life. I'm Kent Coleman, joined by Rachel Cruz. We're here together today to take your life. I'm Kent Coleman, joined by Rachel Cruz. We're here together today to take your calls. 888-825-5225. Of course, we're going to take your money calls. How about your work? Are you in a work that's just okay, or do you feel stuck? You need a bigger shovel to get out of the baby steps

a little bit faster and just move on up? Do you long to do something that matters to your work where you can make the income you desire and the impact? We'll take those calls as well. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Let's go to San Antonio, Texas. Erica joins us there. Erica, how can we help? Hi, thank you guys so much for taking my call.

Okay, so I am 25 years old and I just got my realtor's license. I haven't worked since last year, like full-time or anything. I graphic design and illustrate on the side and that brings in like maybe like $250 a month if I can get a commission. But anyway, I guess I'm just wondering, should I just get like a part-time job? I don't want to focus all my time on working a nine-to-five when I want to build my real estate career. But I also need, I mean, I have bills and I'm not making it. Oh, my goodness, no. How far behind are you right now?

Let's just talk about the fact that you're making $250 a month. That's it? Have you been on unemployment insurance? I'm not on unemployment. I received child support from my daughter, and I get the child tax credit that we're getting, and that's how I've been kind of scraping together for my bills. Kind of.

And I was manning part-time, but that was giving me like maybe $200 a week at the time. Okay. So this is not a simple answer or a simple fix for you given your realities. Here's what I know from really good friends that are successful realtors, plus I'm friends with one of the leading real estate trainers in the world. And at some point, you're going to have to go all in on this, right? To make the money that you want to make, that you need to make, at some point, you're going to have to go all in on real estate. You can't do it part-time and really max out.

Exactly. And you know that. But we've got this financial problem too. So we've got to stop the bleeding and then transition transition so the good news congratulations you got your license um what do you need to bring in to not scrape by but to have some stability what's the number oh my god um a month yeah um I want to say maybe a thousand, at least. All right, let me help you. Rachel and I are going to help you. Rachel, help me out here.

So let's talk about rent. Are you renting or do you have a mortgage? What's going on there? So I rent a room from my mom, or I guess the house from my mom. So I pay her $430 a month. So $430 a month. So $430 a month. I try to, but I've been behind. I have a car note currently.

I still owe $3,000 on my car, so I pay $170 a month for my car. My car insurance is $200. And then I guess gas monthly is maybe $60. Okay, and then you've got food, right? So actually I have government assistance for food. Government assistance for food. And how much are you getting in child support? I make $500 in child support.

Okay. And the $1,000, that number, Erica, you said, is that including the child support or is that in addition to? Yeah, no, like everything's included. Child support, the child tax credit, all of that. And then I guess, yeah, that's like what, $800? So $300 from the government and $500 from child support. Right. Okay. So yeah. So my big thing for you, Erica, right now is I just, it feels to me, and I could be off. Like you're probably not. That it's a little just out of control.

Do you feel that? There's no structure. There's no structure. Okay. And that's what I think is the first step for you, Erica. I think you're 25 years old. I think you're smart. I think you have, how old's your daughter or son?

Four. Four. Daughter? My daughter's four. Okay. Yes, ma'am. You got a four-year-old. You're in and out of this job.

You have a dream of a realtor. You're trying to pay. You're getting money in three different ways, government assistance with food. I mean, it does feel out of control. So I think my number one goal for you is to get your income up. And Ken can speak on this, but he said it one segment ago and that right now is one of the best times

to get a job in the history of our country. So there is going to be a job out there for you. It may not be realtor. I kind of want you to set that aside just for a little bit because again, I want you to just be stable. I want you to have a stable job, something that you're making.

If you can make $30,000, $40,000 a year, that will change your life, Erica. And I really believe there are jobs out there that you can do this. You can find something. Again, it may not be the dream job. It may not be the passion, but you are making an income. And what you're doing is you're adding stability to your life. You're going to be moving out of your mom's house, paying rent, living on your own, having dignity that you are doing this and you are self-sufficient. And you can do this, Erica. You can do this. And once you live that life for a season, and that can be whatever you choose it to be, but to have that under you just to breathe and actually have control over what's going on to the point that you can,

I think is going to let your mind be clear. I feel like you may have jumped on this realtor thing because it felt like I can make a lot of money and maybe I love people and this feels like a good thing and I'm just going to try it. Is that the motivation into it a little bit? No. So my uncle's a big realtor here in this city and he helps me with it. He helped me with school and everything. But last year I was a 9 to, and I worked there for two years,

and I guess I was a little spontaneous, but there was a drama in the workplace, so I left. And at that time I had been in an apartment, so I racked up debt in the apartment, which is why I moved back in with my mom and everything. I hear you. All right, so Erica, you ready for a little pep talk? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, listen to me.

I could use a pep talk. Listen to me. Your uncle's a big-time real estate guy in that area in San Antonio, and he helped you get there? Right. Okay, now listen. Yes. Is he for you?

Is he going to help you get started and win? Yes. Has he told you what you need want to help you get started and win? Yes. Has he told you what you need to do to win? He has. Is he going to help get you a couple of deals early on? Is he in that position to be able to do that, or is he just going to mentor you and you've got to go out and do it? Well, he's mentoring me. Okay, now listen to me.

So Rachel's right. So real estate right now becomes part-time, but what you need to do is go out and get a job. And I want you to say no to the government assistance pretty darn quick. You're getting the child support from the baby daddy and you got a good renting situation with your mom's house. That's fine, but you better go out and get yourself a really good day job. And here's why. You've got to get stable, get your budget in order. We're going to get you connected to a free membership to Ramsey Plus. Okay. So we're going to get you in there so that you've got to get stable, get your budget in order. We're going to get you connected to a free membership to Ramsey Plus. We're going to get you in there so that you've got every dollar.

You've got a clear path for financial peace on how to get your house in order. But listen to me. Get a good pain day job. Start saving up some money and create a cushion for yourself to where you can take three months and go all in on real estate. But that's six months, a year from now, after all in on real estate. But that's six months a year from now after you get everything cleaned up. But here's the other deal. You tell uncle, uncle, get me with a good broker and I'm going to sell and show as many houses as I can on Saturdays and Sundays and I'm not going to sleep. You sell a couple of houses part-time, it is

possible. And that's going to fast forward this whole deal. But go get yourself a good paying day job. Say no to the government assistance. You don't need it, and it's holding you back. This is the Ramsey Show. People always say, when I get this promotion, I'll be able to make a real impact. Wrong. When you make a solid plan on how you need to grow, you can become the leader you want to be. And that's why Ken Coleman, America's career coach and national best-selling author,

wrote his new book, From Paycheck to Purpose, The Clear Path to Doing Work You Love. And it's available for pre-order right now. If you want to grow or create a legacy in your career, you need this book. It's not just a concept. It's a proven, clear path that will walk anyone in any industry through a step-by-step plan to take their career to the next level. Plus, if you pre-order From Paycheck to Purpose today, you'll receive our Get Promoted bonus pack for free, which includes the audio book, e-book, disc assessment, an exclusive talk from Ken, and access to our live event and more. Pre-order from paycheck to purpose at RamseySolutions.com. This is the Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Rachel Cruz. And we're taking your calls about your life, your money, your work, relationships. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Phone lines are open. So, Rachel, there's a lot of hype, as you know, in the real estate market. My goodness. I mean, it's hot, hot, hot.

Buyers who think they've now got to buy. It's got to happen right now because of how the market is. And a lot of that is because mortgage interest rates have reached some all-time lows. And buyers are frantic to lock in at the best rate possible. We're talking rates in the 2% range, which for reference, 3% was the gold standard for decades. But you're probably not going to get rates any cheaper than that. It doesn't give you the green light to do stupid. So that means buying before you're debt-free or with zero down payment or offering way over asking price and waiving inspection.

Those kind of moves are high risk, and they're always going to cost you more than you would save in the long run. So get your head out of the craziness and look at your situation. Do you have a down payment of 10% to 20% saved? Can you afford home ownership? Do you want the responsibility? If and only if your answer is a big fat yes to all of those questions, does it mean that buying a home is a smart move for you right now?

So it's easy to get caught up in this hype. That's when you need to get the real facts, cold, hard numbers staring you in the face before you get too serious about buying or selling. Use our free mortgage calculator. There you can plug in your numbers and see exactly what your home ownership options are based on your budget. Go to ramseysolutions.com and click free tools. That's ramseysolutions.com and click free tools and get the mortgage calculator. That's going to give you a whole lot of information so you're not walking around in the fog. All right, let's get to the phones. Spokane, Washington is where Mike joins us. Mike, how can we help?

Hey, Ken. Hey, Rachel. How are you guys doing today? Great. How are you? Doing great. Love and love, like always. So glad you just got in and talked about real estate.

Because that's what my question's about. So my wife and I are debt-free. We have our six-month emergency fund, and we actually have some money put aside, about $25,000 for a down payment for our house. Here's where it gets a little confusing for us is she's going to school full-time and not working. I only make $40,000, $40,000 to $45,000 a year up here, and the real estate market is insane. And with her, she is doing one more year community college for cash flowing, and then she'll use my GI bill for the last two years. Next year, when she tries to do her junior, start her junior year, apparently it's a very

competitive program. And she thinks that she may have to take a gap year if she doesn't get accepted and take one or two classes, which means she'd be working full time and we'd be able to save up enough to buy a house. My question is trying to figure out if that's wise with her not having a job yet and still be in the middle school, but also because I, once she gets her job in dental hygiene, after she's done with schooling, I will be quitting my job, going back to school sometime between now and then, and going into youth ministry. Quick question before Rachel dives into some of the numbers. Why are you going back to school to go into youth ministry? Do you have to have a degree to go into youth ministry? Yes and no. So I do, you and me have actually talked about this i actually called your

show like four weeks ago and you called me out on national on radio good was i right because yeah so i will be going into full-time ministry um the churches around here they're very they want some actual education behind the knowledge before. I have the passion and everything else. I've got experience. But I just, I need some in-depth, like, knowledge that comes. It wouldn't be a certificate. I'd start off with a certificate, which only takes a year.

Okay, I got it. So we talked about that. I don't want to go down the rabbit hole, but that's a money equation. So I've already told you, I guess, what I needed to tell you, so that's good. But look, one little caveat on that. If the answer is yes and no, then let's focus on the no part. Let's run that angle down. And a good church, if you've got good connections and you've got a heart and you've got some biblical education, I think you can do that.

So don't just assume that that's what you guys got to do. Okay, on this money question. So should you buy a house? That's the heart of the question. Yeah, it's more of a quick question for you. Whether we should – go ahead. Sorry. So you're making $40,000.

She's going to be going to school. When she gets out, she's going to be working. You're going back to school. So how much will she make when she's all done, which I know will be in about three years. But roughly, what will she be making? So low ball in this area for a dental hygienist is $65,000 to $70,000. Okay. But that will be in three years.

Yep. So what I would say to you, Mike, is people own a home on one income all the time. Okay. That is doable. It is doable. Now, is it the wisest thing for you guys right at this moment? I think owning a home is an amazing goal. And I think everyone, home ownership is something that I encourage everyone to work towards because it's just a

great investment over the long term. And I think owning real estate is wonderful. And you guys are in a really great position, Mike. I mean, you guys are out of debt. You have six months of expenses in addition to $25,000 safe for a down payment. So you guys are in a position that you could own a home. I mean, a home at this point for you to obviously depending on price is not going to be an absolute curse. But I would say you guys are in a lot of transition, a lot of transition, and it feels a little unstable. And the market is insane right now, like you said said so there's no rush to go in and buy a home so if i i would be okay if you guys press pause on the stream for about three

years until she has this job and then you can quit yours go back to school and do what you guys are doing so so it feel and it doesn't feel like you want to buy a home from even your questions. Is that right? No, no, no. The reason why we started the financial peace stuff was because we were about to buy a home, and I went to my pastor in tears because I was in the military at the time. I was a six-foot big guy going my pastor, who's not exactly big. And I'm about to burst in tears because I was terrified.

And he's like, you need to go talk to these guys, talk to this guy. And he led us to financial peace. And that's when we got out of our debt. We got everything figured out. So the main, it's just,

and if she ends up getting accepted this next year into the school, buying a house won't happen. Cause'll be in school at that time. It was more of if she has to take a gap year and is working full-time and we make more money, we can put even more down on a house depending, like what you guys said, like on the price. But if we were able to get it down to where we put like 40, 30 or 40 percent down and made it to where even when she went back to school, we could easily afford the mortgage. So, yeah.

Mike. Would that still be wise? Yeah. As long as it's 25% of your take-home pay on a 15-year fixed rate. You guys just got to run the numbers. And if it's within that ball, then yes, you're good. You guys have done the work. You've set yourself up to do it.

Now, again, if you press pause and just wait it a little bit, you're in no rush. I mean, this is the largest financial purchase you'll probably make in your lifetime is a house. So we don't want to rush into it. But you guys have set yourselves up on a firm foundation to be able to pull the trigger, Mike. Again, if the numbers work and that payment is no less than 25% of your take-home pay in account to her going back to school. Run all those numbers out. Mike, it's a simple math problem. You answered your own question. But I think, Rachel, I think you're right here.

If you buy it based on this, Mike, it's a good decision, right? Based on the way we've talked it through. But it's also not a bad decision for you guys in so much transition just to chill out and keep saving money and rent for a while. There's just nothing wrong with that. You're not wasting your money or throwing it into a wood chipper. I think a lot of people feel like if I'm not buying a house and I'm not getting equity and I'm not getting the tax write-off, I'm throwing my money in a wood chipper. I might as well just be burning my money. And it's just not true. I think you guys got to do what you think feels the best emotionally. You're doing the right things on your money. You're walking the Ramsey Solution steps out. But do what feels right on

this. The houses will be there. You guys are in so much transition. But the best is yet to be for you. And congratulations on what you guys have done so far. Proud of you. You guys are going to do great work. All right. Don't move. More of your calls. More of the Ramsey Show America,

and we are thrilled that you have joined us to talk about you and your life, your money, your purpose in your work. We're thrilled that you have joined us. 888-8255-2255. 888-8255-2255. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Rachel Cruz, and we are taking your calls. So let's get to the phones. Idaho Falls, Idaho is where Andrew is. Andrew, how can we help

hey guys i'm really glad you're running the show today i i have a question i'm actually sitting in my car right now dressed with a white shirt and tie i was about to take my resume and references page into a job okay yes all right now andrew Final decision maker. Andrew, I've got to ask. This is relevant. Do they wear a white shirt and tie in this place? They do. It's a credit union. All right, good. Because if they didn't, I was going to tell you to take the tie off and unbutton the shirt and roll up the sleeves.

So, good. I'm glad you're dressed the way they're dressed. Okay, keep going. King Coleman's fashion segment has ended. Well, you've got to dress like everybody else. You can't go in overdressed for a job interview. That's right. All right, go ahead.

That's right. So as I was driving in, I got an email saying that I wasn't selected for the position. And it wasn't that I was driving into an interview. I was driving in to try and get ahead of the curve and introduce myself to somebody. And it seems like over the last several months, I've applied for dozens of places and dozens of positions. And where I always fail is at the HR level. It's like I can't get my application to the interview process.

And when I tailor my resume and application specifically to the job and I'm fully qualified, what can I do to get past that HR stage? Yeah, it's about connections. It's about connections. You can't even get an interview. You're not even in the interview process. On the dozens and dozens, you're not even really talking to a person, right? Uh-huh.

You know why? Because you're a nameless, faceless resume. Connections, my man relationships this is how we get past the hr screening i just shared an article about this rachel on the ken coleman show last week they are now estimating that 10 million qualified candidates a year are not even getting seen by hiring managers because of the artificial intelligence and the technology that helps people gather resumes faster, right? The days of walking off the street and handing your resume are over. And so, Andrew, I'm guessing this is pretty consistent for you. You're submitting all these resumes online, correct?

Yeah, yeah. And I've been trying to connect with the decision makers on LinkedIn. I've been trying to go in and talk face-to-face with people. See, that's all creepy now, right? I think it's great. But I'm old school, Rachel. I'll tell you, I'm an old soul. I'm like an 80-year-old, 40-something guy. But here's the deal. That doesn't work anymore. Nobody wants to do that. So you're not linked. Listen, LinkedIn is good for information. It's not good for connection. Let me explain. You can find out valuable connections on LinkedIn, but then we got to pick up the phone and talk to people. All right. I wrote an entire book called The Proximity

Principle, which takes care of this. And I'm going to give it to you at the end of this call, because it's really about the art of connecting. That's what the whole thing is. It says this, in order to do what Andrew wants to do, he's got to be around people that are doing that and in places where it is happening. So I'm going to break that down for you really, really fast. All right. Andrew, you want to be working in a credit union doing banking work, I'm understanding finance work. What I want to do is I want to work on financial literacy education is what i want to do okay great so here's the deal who's working on financial literacy education in idaho falls idaho

and you probably don't know the answer to that right now but you can find out the answer to that and then when you find out the answer to that so it's not just these companies it's going who's who's the hiring manager over there not the hr rep i want to know who the hiring manager is i want to know who it is and so what's the name of this credit union that you're that you're in the parking lot of right now it was called mountain america credit union okay great how hard is it for you to go online and figure out who the decision maker is over there at that place. How hard is that? Not too bad, not too bad. That's what I was about to do.

I was about to walk in and talk to them. Well, you can do that, but again, they're going to look at you like you've got horns growing out of your head. Here's the deal. I'm okay with you that you're there. So walk in and just go, hey, who's the hiring manager? What's the person? We'll see how that goes. But here's the deal.

You can find that out online. And let's say we come up with a name. I'm going to make it up right now. Let's say that it is Sandra Robinson. All right? And let's say you go, okay, it's Sandra, Sandra Robinson. I've got to get in front of Sandra Robinson. Sandra Robinson is the one making the call.

How do I get in front of Sandra Robinson? Here's the deal. I start going to everybody I know, close friends, family members, acquaintances, social media relationships. And I'm going to say, hey, do you know anybody that works over there at such and such XYZ Credit Union? I don't, but my Uncle Larry does. His wife works over there. Would you connect me to your Uncle Larry?

And so we talked to Uncle Larry. And see, this is just a simple game of connections. I've got to find somebody who knows somebody over there. And here's how this works. So you make those connections before you ever apply. And then if they say, yeah, you know what? I'll vouch for you. I'll take your resume in.

So I'll apply online with the artificial intelligence, right? But I'm also going to have Uncle Larry take it into his wife, Sue. And Sue's the office manager over there. And Sue walks into Sandra and goes, hey, I've heard great things about this young man, Andrew. Do you understand that process? Yeah, yeah. That's how we get past HR. Listen.

I'm giving you an applause, King Coleman. Thank you very much. Well, it's actually not brilliant, Rachel, but it is, hey, who do I know over there? And if we go, I actually don't know anybody at XYZ Credit Union. Okay, we don't take our toys and go home and pout and suck our thumb. We say, who do I know that knows somebody over there? And at the end of the day, this is how we get passed. And this is how people get hired at Ramsey Solutions, by the way.

Yeah, referrals. We have tens and tens and tens of thousands of people apply every year at this place. Well, I'm just telling you, if you don't know somebody here, good luck. You might as well go buy a couple auto tickets right after you submit your resume because the chances are the same. You've got to work relationships and connections because when somebody hears something good about you, here's what's happening. This young man, he said dozens and dozens of resumes. Let me tell you what's happened. Dozens and dozens of people have gotten the job because they had some connection, some relationship, some credibility.

They got their resume pulled out of the pile. So the whole who you know thing. It actually works. It's true. It's true. Jenna, let's give this young man a copy of my number one bestselling book, The Proximity Principle. Now, here's what the book does. It's all about connections all right the five people you need to know and the five places you

need to be in to where opportunity comes up and knocks on your door yeah the old days i gotta tell you a fun story okay go no go ahead you were saying no i was gonna say i never i and i i've been in this job for 12 years so i haven't gone and applied to a lot of places no but i kind of still thought the old school but but it doesn't work. Like the idea, though, of like, yeah, put your best foot forward. You walk in there and you shake their hand. You do that now. And somebody goes, please put a mask on.

Do you know what I mean? Like the days of going to a receptionist and going, hey, who's the manager here? I know. Like they're going to look at you like, why are you going to come in and do something? Yeah. You know what I'm saying? It's true. No, I 100% know.

I hate it that that's true. It's just funny that my idea is still like in the 90s. Well, here's the story I was going to tell you. I'm still in 96. So one of my most inspiring stories when I first started out, I was 33, three kids, and I wanted to get a broadcast in. I read a story about Katie Couric, legendary NBC anchor of the Today Show. Yeah.

When she first got her start, she camped out outside of an office building in Manhattan. And there was an executive producer that she wanted to get her reel in front of. And she notoriously and famously camped out and stalked the dude. And she got to him. Yeah. And it helped her. Yeah. But that's like, we can't romantic't romance it's a great story and i

love it totally okay i love everything about it but that's romanticized and that's really really hard we just can't do that anymore and so a lot of people here's what i want people to hear because a lot of people listen to the show right now and you're going i'm andrew i'm i'm up to my eyeballs ken i can't take it anymore. If I get one more no response, because people would rather hear no, Rachel, than crickets. But you submit all these resumes online and you don't hear anything. You feel like a loser. Yep.

Folks, listen to me. You're not. But I'm going to tell you something right now. You're submitting all these resumes and you feel good about your activity. You might as well be spitting in the wind. It's just a long shot. Your resume is getting lost in a digital pile. This isn't my opinion.

These are the facts. 10 million people in 2020. The resumes, they were qualified. They never even were seen. Get out there and meet people and say, hey, will you connect me? Watch what happens. It's not what you know. It's who you know. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back America You are listening to The Ramsey Show

I'm Ken Coleman joined by Rachel Cruz as we take your calls Today's scripture is Colossians 3.2 Set your minds on things above not on earthly things Our quote today from G.K. Chesterton. One sees great things from the valley, only small things from the peaks. Good stuff there.

That's pretty deep. You have to think through that one for a little bit. All right, folks. To the phones we go. 888-825-5225. Amy is joining us in Modesto, California. Amy, how can we help? Hi, Rachel and Ken.

Thank you so much for taking my call. I was ready to talk to you. Yeah, great to talk to you. My husband and I have always been kind of on the Davish side until we were loaned a copy of the Total Money Makeover. Now we have the Gazelle intensity and the laser focus. We keep getting derailed. So my husband's question, more than mine, is we're on the fence about refinancing our house and including all our debt, consolidating our debt into that refinance

to try to chip away at that a little bit quicker. Okay. So what debt do you guys have besides the mortgage? Besides the mortgage, we have $22,000 on a car loan and $16,000 on a HELOC. Okay. And we only have about $100,000 left on the mortgage. Okay. Awesome. Okay. So the only reason I don't like the idea of consolidating with the mortgage and honestly, debt consolidation in general is that part of that gazelle intensity is getting these wins. And when you have this big Everest mountain in front of you, it starts to chip away at the emotional side of the process. And so there's something to be said about, hey, we're going to knock out the 16K. We're going to knock out the 22K. We're going to knock out the 22K.

We're going to save up and get an emergency fund in place. We're going to do some other things before we go and tackle the big mortgage. So I would not consolidate them all. I understand the idea of it because you guys are pumped and you're motivated and you're ready to get rid of everything. But I would not consolidate all of them. I would keep it still so separate. So the car, Amy, let's talk about that for a second. $22,000, how much is it

worth right now if you were to Kelly Blue Book it? Probably about $30,000. Okay. And how much do you guys make a year? We're at about $160,000 gross. Okay. Awesome. So you've got a good shovel for sure to be working on this. And so

you guys can have, I mean, yeah, I mean, man, Amy, if you guys buckle down and really, really, like you said, you've been Davis, you kind of been just messing around here or there. And I mean, if you, if you tighten up everything, I'm like, you can, you get all this paid off in way less than a year. Our goal is really two years for the whole thing, including the mortgage. And we keep getting derailed, Rachel. We keep getting derailed with our air conditioner just broke.

That's why my husband wonders if it'd be cheaper to do the consolidation, if it would save money. Well, in the long run, mathematically, I don't know. I haven't run the numbers. I don't know the interest rates, all of that. But the idea is that you guys are getting derailed not because the debt's not all together. It's because, yeah, what is happening with your life? And so what you guys, again, have, do you guys have a budget?

Are you guys working on a zero-based budget right now? My husband is a little more of a free spirit. We have a budget, but I have to say it's hard to stay on the budget 100%. Okay. Yeah. I'm feeling some of this in the conversation. And the idea, Amy, is there's a little bit of the reality that if you keep doing what you've been doing, you're going to keep getting what you've been getting. And so there has to be a level of change for you guys. And I love that you said at the beginning of the call, you know, we're feeling gazelle intense. We read the book, we're doing all this. But I mean, I want you guys to really clean this stuff up because you can, you have an amazing

income. I mean, you could get rid of this debt so fast. If you guys tightened up, cut your lifestyle, like you're not living, you know, this glamorous doing whatever you want. I mean, you really are tightening up and cleaning this up because it's going to be an amazing thing. Once all this is paid off and you guys have the cashflow to go and save up for an emergency fund, because I want you to start, you know, press and play on retirement again after that. I mean, there's some stuff to do to chip away at that mortgage and you guys can do that. I mean, there's some stuff to do to chip away at that mortgage, and you guys can do that. I mean, you have the income. You just have to have the restraints and the ability to stay within a boundary,

which is the budget. And so you guys working together, it could change the game. Yeah. I mean, the bottom line is hubs being a free spirit and you not being able to stick to the budget because of that is making the HVAC issues that big of a bigger of an issue to where it derails you where it shouldn't and this just comes down to straight up determination it gets down to going and you don't want to sound like a

nag and I know you wouldn't be Amy because you're amazing but it gets down to going hey I just looked at the numbers had we stuck to the budget and this HVAC thing happened. Here's what the reality would be versus what it is now. Because it does feel frustrating when you feel like I keep getting derailed. Well, you're not getting derailed. Yep. This is called life. And by the way, Rachel, I've always found in our life when we're saving up for something that we want or we're excited about something, something wrong goes.

It's just nuts. Yes. Yes. It happens. You something wrong goes. It's just nuts. Yes, yes. It happens. You know what I mean? It just happens. By the way, that's just the deal, but it's like,

it doesn't mean that you go, well, we tried. It was a good plan. It was good for a while, but HVAC went and the car went and so we can't do it. You just can't have that mentality.

Yeah. It's like, do we want to get on the other side of this or not? It's the fight. It's the fight. It's the fight. Yep. And Amy, and honestly, too, I mean, even selling the car, I mean, $22,000 of it.

I thought you, I was going to say, sell that car. I'd sell it right now. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. They owe $22,000 on it, as I recall? Yeah. And it's worth $30,000?

Yeah. Oh, tonight. Yeah. Here's why. Right now, not only is housing market hot, so is the used car market yes so i'd go ahead and sell it now and you got eight and i'm not kidding you when i tell you i've been all over these used car websites you can buy a very decent little sedan yes for five thousand dollars yes absolutely pocket three absolutely put it on the debt yep so yes i mean yeah i would sell the car yeah and so it on the debt. Yep. So, I mean, yeah, I would sell the car.

Yeah, and so it's going to take these kind of decisions, Amy, where you just change the way you've been viewing it, right? You've been doing this and cloning along and yeah, this is a good idea. We're going to try it, but kind of, sort of. Some months we're on. It is that ish sounding, right? Yeah.

And it's got to be to the point that you're like, it's not working. Like what you guys have been doing, the reality is, and that's not to be mean to you, Amy, but it's just to be to the point that you're like it's not working like what you guys have been doing the reality is and that's not to be mean to you amy but it's just to say it's it's feeling it feels frustrating the numbers are frustrating all of it so to say we're going to just do something different we're going to just we're going to give this a go give this a go amy for 12 sell the car give this a go till summer of 22 and if you hate your life in summer of 22 because of everything you've done

and you're like, I want to get back in debt and it's more fun not living on a budget, all that, you're welcome to. It's a free country. But I'm telling you, when you have the discipline and the wins, Amy, the wins that you guys are going to start feeling because you've had a lot of losses

and I hear that in your tone and in your voice. It's defeating and it's frustrating. But man, once you start getting those wins, it's like, oh, okay, this is possible. A hundred percent. You know, it's interesting when we listen to our debt-free screamers here on the show, it's always fun to ask them, was there a point in your journey where you went from the struggle and the gazelle intensity that has to be there throughout, but that became kind of normal

and you were okay with it because you then experienced momentum do you know what i'm saying it's like you get to the point where you go oh we've had our heads down and we've been busting it and living like no one else going crazy rice and beans beans and rice all the things and now we go oh we can see the light at the end of the tunnel. It's kind of like when you get halfway through the race. It's like the second wind is a real thing. I heard that term from runners because I hate running. As you know, I have a deep, deep, deep abiding hate for running. And one time Dave Ramsey goads me into the National Half Marathon.

You know I did it. And I retired, by the way, as soon as I finished. I was one and done. But here's what I did learn in the training process, that you do get to a psychological moment where you realize, oh, the hardest part of the run is here. I made it through it. I'm kind of starting to level off.

And then, oh, I'm closer to the finish of my run than I was to the start. Yeah. There's something magical that happens. And it really is that second wind. Absolutely. And in these baby steps, certainly baby step two, the second wind will come. I don't know when it will come for you,

but it will come. But let me tell you something, you only get the second wind if you just keep putting one foot in front of the other. Every day, every week, every month, even if it's a couple of years, you got to do it

because on the other side of this... And math is not going to get you out of the problem. Oh, no. Consolidating it all isn't. So this second wind, it is work. You're not going to be able to math your way out of this. It's the truth. Rachel Cruz, always fun, my friend, to be with you.

Thanks for hanging out with me. Hey, our producer is James Childs. Our associate producer and call screener is Jenna Sears. And we want to thank you, America. It is your show. It is The Ramsey Show. Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast.

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