The Ramsey Show - App - Should We Cash Out Our Whole Life Policy? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 17, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Rachel Cruze discuss: Cashing in a whole-life policy, What it takes to change your life Getting rid of student loans. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

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Sue is in Chicago. Hi, Sue. How are you? I'm doing great. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? My husband is 62 and I'm 58. We've been married 38 years. We have no debt and our net worth is a little over a million. $200,000 of that is in real estate, 800,000 in stocks and bonds. In 1997, we were raising four little boys and my husband went through leukemia and a bone marrow transplant. And so the only life insurance we could get was a whole life and it was a $600,000 policy. Dave and Rachel, we put in, since 1997, $10,000 a year into this policy. Now, fast forward 15 years ago, my husband had a heart attack and five bypasses. Longevity in his family, the men, just historically do not live long lives. So here is our caveat right now. All the boys are through college, married, we have 10 grandchildren.

And this life insurance policy, the cash value is now around $240,000. I am just, my husband and I are trying to make this decision. He is still working. He has an income of about $80,000 a year. He hopes to retire at about $65,000. My income a year after COVID, I'm a Christian motivational speaker, so my income dropped from about $50,000 a year to now 20,000 we are trying to make the decision of whether we cash in this whole life policy and put into our stocks and bonds um portfolio given the fact of his um life expectancy to be quite positive. What's the face value?

$240,000. No, that's the cash value. What's the death benefit? Yes, $666,000 right now. Okay. Wow. Okay. So basically if he dies, or when he dies, we all die. Yes, I understand.

When he dies, if the policy is in place, you will receive $666,000. Yes, sir. Okay. That means they're going to keep $240,000. So you really have a $400,000 insurance policy. Correct. That's really what you have. Okay.

And so the swing is, do you need the extra 400 to live and the answer is no you don't so if you cash it out and put 250 in there or if you keep it either one you're going to be okay either way financially speaking mathematically speaking agreed agreed okay so this really comes down to um a bet that you're making not based on the past but for four hundred thousand dollars i'm gonna bet that i'm gonna put in less than four hundred thousand dollars before he dies right mathematically it's it's very cold-hearted but it's a math thing okay and so it's um you know uh um and what's the like can she save another 400 still at no i'm saying she's paying for a 400 000 life insurance policy in in essence, they are paying. Okay. Okay. And if he dies before you put $400,000 into it, if you put $300,000 into it,

you gained by $100,000. Mm-hmm. Right? Yes. And that's the math. And is it currently and it will be forever $10,000? Yes. And that's been our first.

Since we got it, we fund that first and then our employee matching and then our Roths. That's been our first. Since we got it, we fund that first, and then our employee matching, and then our Roths. That's been our. Yeah. Well, that would not be my order of priority, but if we're just making bets at $10,000 into $400,000, that's 40 years, is it not? Yes, it is.

So if you're just placing bets on the math, you're going to keep it. Okay. It's a crappy product. I probably would have dropped it 15 years ago or 10 years ago and saved that money and quit then, and I hate it. I think it's a horrible product. But at this stage, what it's come down to is if you're going to get 666 upon his death, which is a weird number

by the way but um yeah it is but the uh uh if you're going to get that upon his death then um and they're going to keep 240 of yours that's uh 426 difference uh then he's got to live 42 years before you don't come out ahead if i I'm doing my math right, am I doing something wrong? 400 divided by 10 is 40, isn't it? Yes. Yeah. Yes. And so 420 divided by 10 is 42 years.

He's 62, so he's got to make it to 104. Probably not happening. I mean, I'm probably not making it to 104 and i got longevity in my family so you know right but um and she got she comes out better ahead doing that versus cashing it all out taking that 250 and putting it in an investment yeah i mean that's a very simplistic way of doing it okay if we want to get one more level of sophistication we could say the present value of that money right in other words were you to invest ten thousand dollars a year how long before in at an eleven percent rate of return in your stocks and bonds what the market has returned how long before you'd get to four hundred thousand i don't have that off the top of my head, but it's probably

still 20 years. Right. So if I'm tracking with you, right, because this has been a dilemma for me, you know, we're pretty financially savvy. We did Larry Burkett before we heard of Dave Ramsey and have done the envelopes before they were cool. And I think about if I pull out or we pull out the cash benefit of $240,000 approximately, and I invest that, plus I'm adding, I'm freed up $10,000 a year. You're right. You're right. Your equation is more complete than mine. You're right. You're exactly right. It kind of swings this pendulum the other way well you got to get if you do that you got to get to 666 but you'd get there in with the 250 you'd get

there in seven years six years exactly you know what you got me you got me you didn't need me i needed you okay oh yeah you're exactly right you're exactly right. You're exactly right. I left a variable out of that. Oh, well, that was dumb. Okay, you got it. You're exactly right. No, you're exactly right. Yeah, so what I would do is sit down with your investment advisor and run the calculation. If you invest at your current rates of return on your investments, $250,000 plus $10,000, and how quick do you get to $666,000?

That's the equation. And if it's at 11%, I think you're there in about five or six years is what I think it's going to come out. I'm doing that in my head, but I'm not far off. So, yeah, I am going to cash it out. Good, I feel better because I hate those dadgum things. I know. I was having trouble keeping it. So you can take his job.

Christian motivational speaker. Yeah, you can. We job. Christian motivational speaker. Yeah, you can. We have need for you. You also do math. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer,

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when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today, number one best-selling author. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Noah is with us. Hey, Noah, how are you? Very good, sir. Honored to be here. Honored to have you, sir.

How much debt have you paid off? $76,600. $76,600. All right. How long did this take you? 26 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? So started around $75,000 annually and finished up around $90,000. Good for you. What do you do for a living? So I actually have two jobs. My day job is in staffing and recruiting. And I teach violin lessons on the side. Wow, very cool.

How much do violin lessons pay? Right around $60 an hour. Oh, that's good. Yeah, it's pretty good in the Northeast. Yeah, very nice. Where do you live? I live in Somerville, Massachusetts. So just north of Boston. Yeah, very good. Welcome to Nashville. Congratulations. Thank you. What kind of

debt was the $77,000? All student loans. All of it. Knocked it out. Knocked it out. So what put you on this journey to get out of debt? So it actually started back in 2015 when I had finished school. I finished up my master's degree. What's your master's in? Music. Oh, of course. Okay. And at the time, I was working, trying to figure out my career, but I had a very casual approach to my finances.

So during this time, I paid off some smaller debts, credit cards and a car loan, but very casually, non-intensely. I think it took me about four years to pay off $15,000. So when I'd come across your information, Dave, and I read about baby step number two, I was absolutely overwhelmed thinking that given my current trajectory, it would take me 10 to 15 years to pay off my loans. But something clicked and the idea of applying the same intensity to my finances that I had done with other areas of my life started to make sense. So work was very steady. I had a full teaching schedule, which I

was very grateful for. And by early 2020, I had Baby Step 1 in place to just attack my loans. Wow. Amazing. Thank you. So it took a little over two years. Yes, yes. Okay. So what was the hardest part of, of those two years for you? You know, once I started and just decided to go all in it, it actually became kind of fun. I know it sounds a little crazy. Um, just seeing the numbers go down, um, each month, the, um,

there were some times I actually joke with some of my friends where I was, uh, very dead set on hitting my, uh, my monthly goal where I would play a little risk. I would have about $75 in my checking account a couple of days before payday just because I had to get that at that number to hit my loan. So that was probably the, I walked on that line a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But it was worth it. I mean, the sacrifice and doing all the weird stuff to be able to say, yeah, that you paid off $76,000, $77,000 in debt. You're obviously a very accomplished violinist. I would like to think so.

I hope my students think so. Nobody wants to listen to you if you don't. Nobody wants to learn from you if you're not. So I take it that's one of the things, the discipline to become good at that. Sometimes people think musicians, that it's all a natural gifting, and it many times starts with a natural gifting, and it ends with a lot of hard work. So I'm guessing that some of the discipline you'd applied in that

was what you were talking about. Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Same intentionality, same level of discipline. If I'm going to be great, I've i gotta pay a price absolutely absolutely if i'm gonna be great at finance i gotta pay a price all very related yeah yeah okay makes a lot of sense good for you now what would you so what would you say noah to someone who's you know because the 77 000 i mean that's a very normal amount of student loan debt right you know we hear the crazy six figure

numbers sometimes but you're kind of in that range of like yeah yeah a lot of people are doing that so if someone's listening right now and they have 70 80 000 student loan debt they're like yeah but that's just like it's normal it's what everyone has well and biden's gonna pay it off and it might get paid off right like i don't know i'm just not that i like i i just don't think i can do that i don't think i can really really pay that off what What would you say to that person that questions it? Yeah. I would say if someone were in my shoes, similar temperament and personality to me is be a hundred percent focused on one thing at a time, because that's, I think that intensity can be a gift at times. It can be, you know, kind of stubbornness to other people, but using that intensity and drive and be okay with being a little obsessed with your goals.

I think just giving myself permission to be a little crazy, be a little stubborn, and just go attack mode, I guess. Into it, yeah. I give you permission to do that in every area of your life. It's called being successful instead of being mediocre. This idea that i'm afraid i might be too intense oh brother get up off your butt light yourself on fire and go do something man this is awesome i'm proud of you thank you very well done very very well done good stuff who was your biggest cheerleaders uh i had a couple um so so my parents um my mother has been

uh just incredibly supportive she's the one who uh made me start, I say made me start violin lessons when I was a kid, but it's definitely paid off. And my father has always been the quiet achiever. I like to call him who's led by example. And my girlfriend, Amanda, as well, has been, I was kind of, I kept it on low key when I had met her that I was, you know, kind of on this journey. And when I had showed her my balance of zero, she actually cried. So it actually, it hit me, okay, she cares too.

So it was very appreciated. I think she felt your intensity. You just didn't know it. I think so. The fact that you wouldn't go out anywhere other than to the park. Exactly, exactly. Good stuff, man. Very, very cool cool well done what advice do you have to a young single person who's accomplished in every area but money what would you tell them

to do if they want to get out of debt well i would say if you're already good at other things um the same principles and discipline apply to finance so um i think the hard part with uh living in 2022 is hearing eight million things of information at the time but just you have to do the boring stuff and and uh the day-to-day is more important than the um i guess the flashy you know quick quick things it's good very good good stuff well done sir proud of you we got a copy of total money makeover for you in the live and give bundle along with the baby steps millionaires book and a one-year membership to Financial Peace University. You might use that to go through with your girlfriend.

That'd be fun. I never know what that'll do for your relationship. Excellent, man. Well done. Very proud of you. You're a rock star. Thank you, sir. Good stuff.

Good stuff. Noah from Boston, Mass. $77,000 paid off in 26 months, 75 to 90 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one let's go i'm dead that was definitely a violin move there. Definitely. That's awesome. That's awesome. So great. Very cool.

Very cool. Without a doubt. Good stuff. Good stuff. And the Live and Give bundle is also on sale if you guys want to share it with your friends at RamseySolutions.com in the store. And Rachel, your new wallet is in there. The new color is out, right?

I know. The perfect Christmas gift for women. That's right. Yes. in the store and rachel your new wallet is in there the new color is out right i know christmas gift for women that's right yes the the red color is here we've been christmassy people have been asking for red so we're like okay we're gonna do it it's a limited quality quantity uh but it and they sell out quick usually when we do some of these kind of special colors so make sure to uh you have to pick one up for you or for the woman in your life. Because what's great about this wallet is the envelopes are built in. It's actually real leather. It's beautiful. We partner with our friends at Join to create this wallet. So the quality of it is wonderful. And it's great because you can just use this wallet i mean i kind of even

just use it as a purse sometimes just to run in and out of the store to run errands and it's and it's amazing so all other colors have done great but people keep asking for red so we heard you america and have a limited quantity for that color so you can go to rachel or you can go to ramsay solutions.com today to get the Rachel Cruz wallet in red. Yeah, check it out. Joins a fair trade company, and this is Full Grain Leather. We partnered with them because they're giving people work that desperately need work to make a transition in their life off the street, usually.

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it sells really, really fast. I know, I know. So here we go. The red ones at RamseySolutions.com. Just in time for Christmas! This is the ramsey show are you sick of planned obsolescence you know when companies make products crappy so you have to buy more of their crappy products well me too and it's why i love companies like grip six grip six is all about quality products meant to last forever.

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Indianapolis, Indiana. Welcome to Nashville. And how much debt have you paid off? $37,193.59. Phenomenal. How long did this take? 22 months. Good for you. And your range of income during that two years uh so started out uh net 52 and ended at 67 cool what do you do for a living i got promoted and i'm currently a financial analyst manager now well congratulations very cool but these numbers you

were killing it yeah that's i mean you were living on nothing, nothing, nothing, nothing. What was the $37,000? All student loan. Oh, got rid of old Sally Mae. Yep, kicked her out of the house. Love it. Yep, she'd been a pet, unfortunately. I started about 12 years ago.

I had car debt and student loan debt. And I was day-vish for a while. I went out to eat and, sorry, my headphone. Sorry. And just didn't, I didn't have the hope. It just felt like a mountain of debt. Sorry, I'm like losing my. You're fine. You're doing good.

It's all good. Okay, I'm sorry. What got you started then 22 months ago? What jacked you up um so i finally just it kicked it in gear when um i got accountability for my daughter sorry i am like yeah it's falling off this back of her head just move it up yeah there you go all right good job good job okay sorry perfect no you're great you're great okay so and um my biggest thing was making my daughter like being accountable to my daughter.

And I went finally, because I had a debt thermometer I kept staring at for, like, months that, like, I really wanted to get started. But I finally made up debt chains because I'd seen a bunch of debt-free screens and they did the chains. And I was like, you know what? Let me get her involved. And as soon as, like, we made the chains together, the links together, and I was looking in those big blue eyes, I couldn't let her down. So she's pretty tiny for all that big accountability. How old is she? She's four.

Four. Okay, so a four-year-old whips you into shape. Yep. I didn't want her to ever know what college loans felt like, the weight of those student loans ever they just got really really old didn't it yeah I got tired amazing we did incredible so what did you do to get out of debt what was your process then uh so trying to think here what was my process just I mean just the normal things getting at like uh getting a budget staying on a budget prioritizing because there's so many that's why i want to talk to single moms about there's a million distractions

flexing your no muscle and then making that budget and knowing that there's hope like you really do have hope like it might be a mountain of debt it really can be but there's still hope and you don't i my personal story is I want to spend time with Meadow. And so I didn't do a lot of side hustles, but I worked really hard on my career. And I really tapped into Ken Coleman with making my purpose and really working on my career and just showing excellence in my workplace so that I could add value. And I actually called in to the show asking if I should ask for a raise. And you kind of kicked me in the butt, which is great. And so I was- I say yes, of course.

Yeah. And you were like, well, how are you adding value? Because like, yes, you're getting responsibility, but how are you really adding value? Put yourself in the position of your boss. and that really clicked for me I was like okay what's my what's my growth plan forward how can I add value and my boss is an amazing leader and um I didn't use exactly all that but I really kind of took some of those principles and added like okay how can how can I grow in this and how can I add value to where I'm currently at which I've been there for eight years so so how'd you get plugged into doing the Ramsey way of money um I think I had a friend back in college in grad school um that was into it and I just kind of got connected started listening on YouTube

that was what really like clicked for me when I started hearing the debt-free screams John and Maddie hearing their story John and maddie's story yeah oh wow okay yeah yeah yeah so back then it's been a little bit ago but yeah that i finally got like really serious uh 22 months ago and if i heard the rumor right you ended up in their financial peace class uh close to yes there i'm in indiana and uh so we've been friends like over like virtually oh okay just a virtual connection but it wasn't a class. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They've been super coordinators, obviously, all over the world, have led people, mentored people all over the world. So I didn't know exactly how it happened.

Good. Very good. Good for you guys. So Amber, for me, being the single mom that you are, that's a hard, that's a hard journey in general. Yeah. that you are, that's a hard, that's a hard journey in general. Um, and then on top of that, doing a sacrificial work with your money to get out of debt. So talk to all the single moms out there because I know it's there. You guys have so much responsibility and I know you're already

exhausted. I can't even imagine. And so, um, what encouragement do you have for single moms out there that, that you did this, you got, you got yourself out of debt. I mean, it's so impressive. Yeah. I just, thank you, Rachel. Um, it is, it's hard, but, um, I wanted to talk to those single moms because, um, I came out of a abusive marriage and it was really hard, but I had to work on myself. Um, and when I did that, um, one, one thing is I lost about 70 to 80 pounds.

Wow. We're at exercise and then getting financially fit too. Wow. And the biggest thing for me was hope. Just hope that you can, you believe in yourself, you work your butt off, but you believe in yourself that you really in god obviously he's gonna produce and give you favor but really believe that you can make that income to make it happen that you can make those sacrifices and those sacrifices are so worth it that's so worth it

so yeah yeah you are amazing i mean 70 80 $37,000 in 22 months making 52 to 67. That's living on nothing. I mean, when you set your mind to something, there ain't no stopping you, girl. This is pretty impressive. Yeah. Very impressive. I'm proud of you. Very, very good stuff.

Yep. I've really just all the vision casting that you and Rachel and Ken and everybody on the personality team has really, and John Deloney, have really helped me give that juice that I needed to keep making those decisions. I'd hear you guys in my head saying, you know, just pushing me on. I remember a pivotal moment. I was driving back. I was commuting in my car an hour away and I it was one of your leadership and you were talking about be the thoroughbred among the donkeys and just having that spirit

of excellence and that's actually what promoted me like going from like 27,000 to like 50 at the time and just hearing that it just really set a fire so every time i just use the youtube and books to really fire me up and and really just make progress wow she's incredible amber for years you're killing it you're killing it though good stuff hey we've got the live and give bundle for you the total money makeover book the baby steps millionaires book and a one-year membership to financial peace university to use or to give away. So let's bring Meadow up and introduce her to the world. She's four years old, you said, right?

Yes. Are you four years old? Yeah. And has she been practicing her debt-free screen? Have you been practicing? Ready to go. All right. Good stuff.

She's beautiful. Thank you. Well done. Very well done. All done all right it's amber and meadow from indianapolis 37 000 paid off in 22 months making 52 to 67 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one the amount of emotional and spiritual transformation to come out of an abusive situation to go through that much transformation. Amazing. Absolutely amazing.

She can, I mean, the confidence that she has. Woo! Love it. It's amazing. Man, this is the Ramsey Shot. We'll be right back. Dead Free screams everywhere this hour. Wow. Lots of good stuff happening out there in America. In spite of all the news.

Who knew? Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today if you like this show please help us by considering subscribing if you listen as a podcast or watch on youtube hit the subscribe button always leave a review especially if you're going to leave a good one a five star would be preferable and uh of course share this with a friend. This show has been on the air for 30 years. We started as a talk radio show. We still are.

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Oh, yeah. Which gives me hope of relationships in our world today where I'm like, oh, people do still. They still do connect. Talk to people, yes, people do still talk to people. Yes, I know. They sure do. Ann is with us. Ann is in Nashville.

Hi, Ann. How are you? Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So student loans are starting back up pretty soon, the interest rates on those. My husband and I have about $30,000, and our only other debt is the house.

We have four different accounts, one unsubsidized and three subsidized. And I know that student loans are simple interest. So I guess the interest accrued can't continue to accrue interest. So should we be paying a income driven repayment so that that gets our payment slower so we can attack the principal and then circle back doesn't change it at all no nope and change it all all that changes is the amount you pay in oh okay the interest is charged on your outstanding balance regardless of how the outstanding balance was achieved even if we pay the the principal down if you pay the principal down you've if you pay down anything on the account that is all it all becomes principal if you don't

pay it so when you're doing income based and you're not even covering the interest you're increasing the principal so it's taking you're taking out of one pocket and putting it in the other it's still it's a dollar swap so it in the other. It's a dollar swap. So, no, you're better off. What's your household income? I think I take home $50,000 and my husband takes home $30,000. Okay, so $80,000. How fast are you going to pay off $30,000?

We're thinking two years. I'm thinking one. You're thinking one? Yeah. I'm thinking you need to quit going out to eat and going on vacations because this Sally Mae has been in your life way too freaking long, lady. Yeah. It's time to punch it in the face.

$30,000 out of $80,000. One year. I mean, that's okay. $2,500 a month. It's not realistic in your mind, but it is in my mind because I've watched hundreds and hundreds, thousands of people do it over the last 30 years. But you're just still trying to figure this out with math,

and I want you to get pissed off at this situation and sick and tired of being sick and tired and sacrifice so deeply that your friends think you've joined a cult. That's when you'll get out of debt. Yeah. The greater you're in, you're not going to fix this with math. You're still trying to fix it with your brain. Your brain got you into this mess. Your brain told you it was okay to borrow to go to school.

You there? You there? Yep. Okay. Okay. Hey, I can hear the words you're using and the way you're forming your sentences um and uh the reason i can hear it is i am a fellow nerd yeah okay so i'm the nerd i can tell i'm also the spender though i know me too me too i'm gonna that we're an unusual lot we

spender nerds are unusual but the but i can hear the nerd you're still cranking the math you're trying to figure out the way the interest is calculated and use that as somehow a shortcut to get out of debt and what you need is 30 freaking thousand dollars now right that solves all your math problems boom just like that oh yeah throwing a grenade in the it's thrown a grenade in the middle of the swamp. The snakes go everywhere. And there's this intensity and logic leaves and it's sacrifice. And it's this, I'm, I like my freaking life depends on it.

Like my hair is on fire. And the people that get out of debt the fastest and actually the easiest are the ones that do that scorched earth right you're activating this emotion and that's what we're known for yep well and that's and that's the progress and because here's the deal i'm like you can sacrifice to a level for two years or you can sacrifice deeply for one year you just cut it in half the sacrifice is more intense but it's in a shorter amount of time and then once it's done oh it's done you work extra you have enough clothes in your closet to make it a year you don't need to buy anything else yep you work extra all you do is work you cut off all

your stupid cable everything else you don't need to be watching tiger king you need to be you need to be dadgum getting your work done. The Crown. The Crown. I haven't heard Tiger King in two years. Yellowstone. There you go. Guilty pleasure.

There you go, Dave. Way to be relevant. There we go. Good job. Yeah, and so I do want to see Beth Dutton on The View. I'm sorry, what? Beth Dutton on The View. On The View, the show The View? Wouldn't that be great? If you could get the character Beth Dutton to go on The View. I'm sorry, what? Beth Dutton on The View. On The View, the show The View?

Wouldn't that be great? If you could get the character Beth Dutton to go on The View. Oh, oh, oh, oh. I don't watch Yellowstone. I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, you don't know? No, I don't know what you're talking about. All the Yellowstone fans go, yeah. We can talk a lot of this blinds again this that season. We can talk that, but. Okay.

But no, but the point is, like, when you're looking at the math of her situation her and her husbands and you're used to living on 80 going down to 50 it's very hard it's hard but you do it for a year and to your point it's that it's that emotion there there's something happening and the point is not the point of the conversation is not, is 12 months magic? It could be 14. It could be 11. It's not the magic 12. But the point is to increase the intensity because that is the secret sauce.

This gazelle intensity, that's what we named this debit card after, the gazelle card. It's gazelle intensity from Proverbs, like the gazelle running from the cheetah. You're running for your life and when you get that that's when your life is transformed people there's something that the great motivator less uh less brown used to say the and does say still the your life changes when you say i've had it not when i figured out the math and i tried i'm a math nerd so i can hear math nerd a mile away i know i know nerd speak i can hear it and uh i'm the same way i always trying to figure out a way sharing my wife uh and my wife would always say quit scheming and scamming you're scheming scam

you're trying to figure out an easy way just do the work just roll up your sleeves and do the work stop trying to stop it stop it just yeah just get after it and there's this get it thing there's the thing there that's going on and um and then and you know then you pick up uh didn't she say she's a nurse she i think no i don't know i think she'd pick up extra all kinds of extra hours you know because there's all kinds of if you're in the medical field good lord you can work all you want and uh because there's a shortage of everything if you're in the teaching field there's a shortage of everything if you're in the first responders world you're there's a shortage of everything you can work all you want and uh and then some you work more than you can physically do and and just go crazy for a short

period of time then you got the whole rest of your life to be free but the stinking student loan will hang around like a disease man you can't it won You can wander in, but you cannot wander out. You've got to bust your way out. Fighting, clawing, machetes, axes, bazookas. I mean, you've got to violence, inflict violence on the situation emotionally, and that is the secret, folks. That's the big deal. Everybody's thinking, I'm going to refinance my credit card debt from 18 to 14, and that will get no, won't help you.

Same stupid thinking that got you in the first place. Good call, Ann. That's great. We think you can do it. We're proud of you. We can't wait to hear from you, whether it's 12, 14, or even 24 months. We'll cheer you on either way. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books.

Our thanks to Austin, Ben, Zach, Andrew, and James in the booth, the booth dudes that do the show. Rachel Cruz, good hour. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz, co-host on The Ramsey Show. If you want to do your debt-free scream live on the show, visit ramseysolutions.com slash debt-free scream. We'd love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.

That's ramseysolutions.com slash debt-free scream. Hey, it's James, producer of The Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but check the episode notes for links to products and services you heard about during this episode. Thanks for listening.