The Ramsey Show - App - Should We Get a Mortgage When We Both Have Stage 4 Cancer? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 16, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Aaron is with us in Buffalo, New York, starting off this hour. Hi, Aaron. How are you? Doing well. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up?

So my wife and I got married just over a year ago, and we have all of our debts paid off except for the mortgage and some student loans. Good for you. So I have a few of those. One of the things that we were talking about is refinancing the mortgage to take advantage of the lower interest rates. And we're on a budget and everything else. And we were just wondering, would it be wise to roll over the student loans into that refinancing so that we could basically half the interest rate on the student loans that we're paying while still continuing the plan that we have right now for getting rid of the student loans?

How much do you have in student loan debt? Just over $150,000. And what's your household income uh just over 100 okay both of you working um so not right now because um our son is uh doing uh remote schooling because of the pandemic so you're starting your law career and you're just over 100 and when she's working what does she make um when she's working she she's a nurse practitioner so she does she does pretty well so like doubles your income correct okay all right let's it wouldn't be an issue it wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't, you know,

for the fact that our son had to be at home all the time. Yeah. Let's pretend that COVID is over and your son is back in school and you're making $200,000 for a second. Okay? Okay. In that scenario, how fast do you pay off $150,000? Oh, we could pay it off in just a couple of years,

probably no more than 24, 36 months. Yeah, 18 to 24 months. $75,000 a year out of $200,000 is pretty wimpy. That's two years. Follow me? Yeah. Okay. And so today we don't have that to work with, but we don't make the decision based on today.

We make the decision based on what is a reasonable probability in the next two years or three years that you're going to be facing, because Junior is going to be back in school. Mama's going to be back making $100, and that makes a big, big difference in this scenario. So do I put all this onto a house with that in mind? Not a chance. You're going to be done with this in 18 months from the time mom is able to go again okay and uh so no i definitely wouldn't the the underlying reason is this not only you're gonna be out fast number one number two if uh you are these all your student loans yes okay if you became permanently disabled they would be forgiven under current law if you die

they would be forgiven under current law neither of those are true if the loans are moved to your mortgage and you can add the extra tickler down at the bottom i have no idea what the current political situation is going to do for forgiving some student loans that would not apply to you if you've moved them over to your mortgage. Now, I'm not going to put my life together based on that last one, but the other ones are real. And the main one being you can be done in 18 to 24 months. And that's what you should be, is done in 18 to 24 months and so and that's what you should be is done in 18 to 24 months from now really because when mom goes back to work is you know at the most going to be september right so that's nine months of that so that's this is very doable for you guys and so let's just call it 24

months from today you're debt free and set that as your goal and you guys get about the business of making that happen and what can she do to earn income even while juniors at home and uh uh so you know and you know get this understand we got to take care of the baby babies first i got that but let's let's lay out a game plan here to be done with this as soon as possible at your young age you guys will be making a couple of hundred year, $250 a year going forward. You're going to be really standing up tall and make, you know, you're going to be building wealth very quickly. You're going to move from deeply in debt into abundance very, very quickly. Bradley is in Salt Lake City.

Hi, Bradley. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So it's a question about some employer-provided stock options. So I just changed jobs to a startup here in Salt Lake, and they provide stock options.

I'm just wondering how I plan for that going into the future. Do I just treat it as a normal investment or how I go about that? I assume it's a 15% discount. So it's closer to a 90% discount. It's a very, very small startup. Oh, okay. All right. So that's, well, obviously you want to take advantage of those, even if you turn around

and sell them. Are they restricted shares, or can you flip them? They're restricted. How long are they restricted for? Four or five years. Woo! Okay, you have a highly volatile startup company that is either going to be worth one of two things, a lot or nothing.

Yes. The chances of it being in the middle and boring are very low. And so I'm putting a very minimal number of dollars into this, even though it's a great deal. If it goes up, you've been in it, right? But no more than 10% of your net worth should be tied up in this because if it becomes worth zero, I don't want you to blink. Okay.

But I would want to try to take advantage of some of it, especially if you're working there enough. You believe in this company enough that you work there. Yeah. The CEO and CTO have done other companies together and have done very well in the past. Yeah. I hope they do, and I hope you get to ride some of it.

But I certainly wouldn't put all my money on this one hand of poker. I mean, because it is a hand of poker. It's a very, very volatile situation. But it's a super deep discount. And so if the actual dollars, not the value, but the actual dollars that you have invested are no more than 10% of your net worth. Then if it goes bottom up, you get nothing. Then you don't even blink. You keep rolling.

But that'll be enough dollars that it could turn at 90% discount that if the stock is just worth what you paid for it or what it was worth at the time you bought it, not what you paid for it, I mean, you make a 90% rate of return before you start, and that ain't bad. But if it shoots through the moon, then you really would have cleaned up without taking a ton of risk. But the temptation in something like this is to believe in it so much that we go all in, go whole hog on it, and that will be a mistake. You'll regret that later. Good question.

So my rule of thumb for my life and what I've recommended since I turned on this microphone is when buying single stocks in any situation, you have no more than 10% of your net worth tied up in it. I have 0% of my net worth tied up in single stocks. I don't like the volatility and I don't like the risk. So you can do what you want to do, but if you're going to play that for some reason or another, you're a big believer, then no more than 10%. The rest of it would be in mutual funds and in your real estate that you get paid for and in cash.

This time last year, we didn't know how our lives were going to change. We didn't have a clue that COVID, job loss, and homeschooling were about to take over our daily existence. And you may be feeling like last year got away from you. Maybe you lost complete control of your money. Or maybe you had to find a new job quickly to make ends meet. The bad news is a lot can happen in a year. But the good news is a lot can happen in a year. Which is why now is the time to think about where you want to be this time next year.

And if you're looking for a proven plan to get back on track, our number one best-selling book, The Total Money Makeover, will walk you through the seven baby steps for getting out of debt faster, creating a budget you can stick to, building real wealth, and becoming outrageously generous. Get your copy of The Total Money Makeover today at the online store at DaveRamsey.com or call our Ramsey concierge team at 888-22-PEACE. That's 888-227-3223. Well, every so often I get to do something to brighten up my day,

and this is one of those moments my good friend Pastor Craig Groeschel is on the line, and we get the opportunity to talk about anything we want to talk about, but I'm going to choose to talk about his brand new book, Winning the War in Your Mind. Hey, Pastor, how are you, my friend? Hey, Dave, I'm cold. How are you? About the same. You guys got snow in OKC?

Man, I woke up, Dave, to negative 11 degrees and uh frozen pipes and snow and ice everywhere but we are we're bundled up we're making it how about you well we we were only 10 degrees and we got snow and ice everywhere but we're out here we're out here scratching around got the truck out so having redneck heaven in the in the ice but i'm glad to hear from glad you guys are doing good this is you've written how many books now? About 10? This would be number 16, I think. Number 16.

I'm sorry, I lost count. Well, this is one of my favorites. Winning the War in Your Mind. Man, we all fight a war in our mind in order to have our best possible life, and it is a constant battle the stupid stuff my brain tells me every day right yeah you and all of us we uh we i think we all have a battle most everybody i talk to would say there's a there's some inner voices that are that are talking them out of uh what's right and what's good and into some of the wrong places.

And that's what I'm writing about, Dave, is trying to help people identify what those thoughts are and find the truth to renew the thoughts. And like the subtitle says, change your thinking and change your life. Yeah, it does. You change your thinking, You change your life. Because what you believe causes your behaviors, and your behaviors, I was talking about this in another hour, are the shortest path to abundance in any area of your life. Your marriage, your kids, your physical condition, your money, whatever it is. Pastor Craig Groeschels, who we're talking to, he is the pastor of LifeChurch.tv, and one of the largest churches arguably in America today,

maybe the largest evangelical church, and a world-class leader, a world-class friend, and a world-class teacher and speaker and preacher, and the book is Winning the War in Your Mind. Now, you and I have talked about this kind of thing so many times over the years, just in friend conversations, and I've heard you say that your thoughts often start out negative in the morning. Talk about what kind of battle that is. Yeah, unfortunately, I think just because, you know,

if I can take it from a pastor's perspective, because of our sin nature, we're often bent in the wrong direction. And so some of the battles I've had in my mind just for years, Dave, I've felt inadequate, not good enough, like I'll never measure up. And so when I start a day in that direction, it just can compound in negative form and fashion. I can find myself saying, you know, instead of this is going to be a good day, this is going to be a hard day. Instead of I'm looking forward to the people that I'm going to see, I might say I'm dreading the people, I'm dreading the work, I'm dreading my life. And when I take a step back from it, there's so many reasons to be thankful,

so many reasons to be positive. And yet, if I'm not careful, my mind will drift toward the negative, toward the critical. And we know our life is generally moving in the direction of our strongest thoughts. And so, you know, years ago when I recognized if my life is moving in the direction of my strongest thoughts, I asked myself, do I like the direction my thoughts are taking me? And the answer was no, I wasn't. And so I've been on what I would say is about a five-year journey of just actively, daily, faithfully working to renew my mind with truth. And the people closest to me would say, you know, it really has made a difference. They can see the attitude adjustment, they can see the faith, and then it plays out in

a much more productive, God-honoring day when we work to renew our minds with the things that are healthy, whole, and righteous instead of negative and destructive. Well, whether you're leading a company with 1,000 team members or you're leading one of North America's largest churches or whether you're just leading yourself every day, whatever you have in front of you, there's always enough to wait to give you something in the early dawn hours to be negative about um and it doesn't matter if you're an abundance person or not i'm an abundance person but i don't get up cheery every morning it

takes me a little it takes me a little discipline to get there and um you know you you said you're fighting through the i'm not good enough and i think all of us have some of that for sure like we're going to be discovered um or god help us we put bad inputs in the morning like social media or the news uh and that'll just add this adds that's like throwing gas on the negative fire isn't it it is and even you know with so much of what you do and at the heart of your message and ministry you know am Amy and I discovered you 20, gosh, five years ago on the radio here in Oklahoma City, one of your first stations, and you just helped us change our thinking about finances. You know, we'd been raised with kind of a normal mindset that, you know, you get ahead by

getting your credit score up and get some good debt to help you out, and you helped change our philosophy, how we thought about money. And now, years later, that doesn't just change how we handle money, but it changes how we can make a difference with money. And that moves into, like you said, an abundant life, abundant mindset rather than a poverty or scarcity mindset. And that can be a game changer for people. And, you know, your teaching and ministry has been a game changer for my family and our whole church.

We're getting ready to go through your teaching again. I can't wait. Well, thank you. It's interesting to me that neuroscience is catching up with Scripture, and it's catching up with the Christian faith. What we've known uh and we've taken it by faith not by science over the years that that we can pray our way through something we can break a stronghold those are christian lingo terms but in a sense what you're doing

there is you're rewiring your brain and neuroscience is telling us now that we can do that right exactly yeah and that's what i love is that God created science, and so science confirms the existence and presence and work and power of God. And what I love, science would say you're rewiring your brain. God would say you're renewing your mind. And it's essentially the same thing that the way God created our brain with neural pathways is, you know, there's billions and billions of pathways in our brain. And essentially, the more we think a thought, the easier it is to think that thought.

And so if we've been thinking the wrong, destructive, negative thoughts for years and years, then it just becomes easier for our brain to engage in those same destructive thoughts. And so we're going to learn to do is stay off those pathways and instead engage our mind in what is true and excellent and, as Scripture says, praiseworthy and good. And as we focus on those things, we're literally creating new neural pathways. And so as we work on it, it becomes easier and easier to focus on what is helpful, what is right, and what is true. And that's exciting. That's when it can be a complete game changer.

People can find themselves growing out of depression or out of low confidence, low self-esteem, and start to see themselves as God sees them. And they're not just a little bit better, but they're new. They're different, changed. Yeah. And the interesting thing about a pathway like that is the more you take it, the deeper it gets, the deeper that rut gets, whether it's negative or positive. And so this is the power of habit that we're all reading so much about now. And all of these things go with this.

The book is Winning the War in Your Mind. Change your thinking and change your life. When you think about your readers on this book, what is it you hope they come away with? Well, first of all, I hope they come away completely encouraged that changing your thinking is not only possible, but it's God-ordained. And so I think for a lot of people, this is not going to be accidental that they're listening right now, but this is something they need or someone they know needs. And we're going to work really, really hard to identify what would be the top destructive thought patterns that we have.

And then we're going to name really, really clear truth in a way that engages our emotions. We're going to declare it again and again. We're going to write it, think it, confess it until we believe it. And I believe with all my heart that we can change our thinking and God will change our lives. Pastor Craig Groeschel, Winning the War in Your Mind, a Change Your Thinking, Change Your Life brand new book by a New York Times bestselling author and a good friend of me and a good friend of this show.

Thanks for hanging out, brother. Hey, Dave. See you at Entree Leadership. See you soon. Listen, this is important. Are debt collectors calling you at work? Are they reporting errors on your credit report? Folks, that's not just wrong. It's illegal. If you think you're being harassed, take a quick survey at CollectionBully.com to determine whether you're a victim of illegal debt collection harassment.

If you are, Collection Bully will help connect you to a consumer law attorney in your state to make the harassment stop. Learn more and get the help you need at CollectionBully.com. welcome to the ramsey show where we teach you to live on less than you make a concept congress can't grasp america at what point are you going to wake up and fire your elected officials who cannot balance a budget how long do you think we can continue to go trillions and trillions and trillions of dollars into debt and it not eventually as we say in in Tennessee, come home to roost. We're just going to ignore this like it doesn't matter? We desperately need term limits. We desperately need so many people to come home that have been up there too long because they don't have the political will to say no to you,

and that's how the budget will finally be balanced. They've got to say no to you, and that's how the budget will finally be balanced. They've got to say no to you. And when somebody tells people in America no today, they have an absolute duck fit. The snowflakes melt like they had salt put on them. It's a complete meltdown. And so you need someone who's not coming back anyway because of term limits to do the right thing.

And you can turn some politicians into statesmen if you do that. Eventually, we're going to have to wake up and clean out the island to misfit toys up there. It's a disaster, you guys. It really is. It's so depressingly bad. Just bad. Nathan is with us.

Nathan is in Cincinnati, Ohio. Hi, Nathan. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, how are y'all doing? Better than I deserve. What's up? All right, so I have about $32,000 in debt, My wife and I make about $30,000 a year. She stays home and takes care of our two-year-old and one-month-old. And about 20, almost 27,000 of my 32 is a car that I stupidly bought. And I am trying to figure out how to get rid of it.

I have listened to you for a couple months now. And I can get about $20,000 out of it, private party sale. I owe $26.7 on it. And I guess I'm trying to, I'm having a hard time figuring out how to get the money borrowed. I've called a lot of my local banks and credit unions and I have nothing to leverage. So they're having a hard time

agreeing to lend me the difference um so i'm just kind of stuck who's the current loan with uh toyota financial yeah that's gonna be no help yeah young brother you got your hands full don't you little babies and debt hanging around your neck you can't breathe i'm sorry wow what a hard time and what a hard place well we have to get rid of that deficit in order to get the title to give it to the buyer when they pay you $20,000 for the car, right? Yes, sir. And so that means we have a $7,000 problem, plus or minus. Now, we either make that in income very quickly with 18 extra jobs and or we put some of it on a credit card.

I would rather you have $7,000 in credit card debt than $27,000 car loan. Okay. Because it's a lot easier to pay off. Yes, sir. And so if you go get a couple credit cards and six jobs, and between the two you scrape up $7,000 and then you get the car sold, that's how we're going to have to do it. Are you a member of a credit union

um i guess technically yeah i haven't been active with them um in quite a while but i'm technically a member of maybe federal credit union yeah do they have a local branch um not real close um i actually just got back into my account for the first time about two years the other day so i then i have not talked to about it um but it's anytime you're trying to do something like this if you can sit down in person versus over the phone you said you'd called them all and some of them aren't open and they're not meeting in person i understand that but if there's an opportunity you got a better when you're making a when you're making an application for a loan, you're selling someone on loaning you money.

Right. And a sale in person is always easier and more effective than a sale over the phone or by email or text or anything else. So if you can get in front of them, that'll be helpful. And I'd rather you have a personal loan than anything we've discussed. But what do you do for a living? I am easily put, I stack lumber. I have an opportunity upcoming to go to school to be fully funded by my employer. And once I get back from school, I'll get... I'll go from making $14.50 to close to $20 an hour. Right at $20 an hour. What kind of school would you go to?

It's Lumber Grading School in Memphis by the NHLA National Lumber Association. And how long does that take? Seven weeks, or close to eight. Oh, that sounds like a wonderful idea. Yes, sir. Yeah, I would do that as quickly as I could. And that's a trade that's going to have a lot of demand because lumber, as you already know, has skyrocketed. And so the value of someone who knows how to grade it

is going to go nothing but up. That's a wonderful, wonderful Vo-Tech position. It's hard work, but you're not afraid of hard work. So let's lean in on getting that school done. Before you go, you're working 40 hours, right? About 50, yeah. Before you go, I want to kick it on up to about 70 or 80 with side jobs, any side job you can get doing anything.

Building decks. Wherever you can make the most money is a side job. And start chunking that down on that car because we can get the thing just paid down $7,000. I mean, let's say you made $1,500 a month at your side job, which would be like delivering pizzas every night as an example. Yes, sir. Okay? That's no fun but 1500 times three is 4500

times four months is 6 000 we're almost there and so you know if you do this for three or four months and got the hat got the car paid down where you can get rid of it and or borrow some money to get rid of it uh then when you go off to school the car payment's not there oh that would be incredible yeah we would uh we'd be cutting our um monthly expenses close to in half because my wife uh will either come with me or go back to south carolina and stay with her family uh so we would be cutting our expenses you know well in half yeah just for that seven weeks yes sir and if you got rid well in half. Yeah, just for that seven weeks, though. Yes, sir.

And if you got rid of the card, it would be even more than that. Absolutely. Yeah, so I'm going to prescribe, you know, apply for some credit cards, try to get an in-person meeting with Navy Federal. Anything she can do as a side with the two babies at home, I don't know what that would be, but just something she can do from home, obviously, for any kind of income. eBay-ing used clothes home i don't know what that would be but she's something she can do from home obviously for any kind of income ebaying used clothes i don't care people do all kinds of stuff when they get up against the wall and dude you guys are up against the wall i'm so

sorry you're facing all this we're going to help you i'm also going to put you in our school it's called ramsey plus with financial peace university and you're not afraid of hard work you're not looking for the government to fix your life. So I'm going to help you for free. I'm going to pay for the whole thing for a year. I want you and your wife to go through every single class of Financial Peace University. I want you to get on that every dollar budget. Get dialed in.

Get in there and ask a coach. Some of them will walk you through the whole process of getting out from under this car the rest of the way. Let's get rid of that car. Let's get in school. And one year from today, you're going to be in an absolutely different position. And you're a tough young dude, man, and you've got a lot on your plate right now, and we're going to be here for you. You hold on, and Kelly will pick up. This is the Ramsey Show, where we talk about common

sense. There's a direct correlation between where Nathan is and abundance. What makes Nathan abundant 10 years from now? He's out of debt. His career has gone up. His income has gone up.

And he has managed the money very carefully, he and his wife, that they have come in the door. None of that was a government program. None of that was a guarantee from the government on his wages. None of that was a check from the government. 100% of Nathan's future is dependent on Nathan. Now some of us can come around and help him and encourage him and cheer for him,

and we all are right now. If you've been a young person with little kids like that and up against the wall like he is, you know how he feels. So we're cheering for you, Nathan. But you got the stuff, man. You got what it takes. This is The Ramsey Show. Kim is with us in Salt Lake City, Utah.

Hi, Kim. Welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks so much for taking my call. It's been a pleasure listening to you over the years. Thank you. How can I help? Well, our decision that we're facing right now is whether to do a 30-year mortgage, a 15,

or maybe not at all. I'll give you a quick background. I'm 54. My husband's almost 60. A year ago, I was trained for my third half marathon, but then we got hit with two cancer diagnoses, both stage four. So five-year survival for me is especially not good um my husband maybe five to ten he might do a little bit longer than i am we have no debt both of you got a stage four diagnosis yeah 2020 was a rough one. Wow. Wow. What kind of cancer? I have lung cancer, and my husband has prostate. Oh, my goodness.

So we're just trying to maneuver and be smart about our decisions coming up. We've relocated to Utah, where a lot of our kids are. And we have a 14-year-old that's living with my oldest daughter. And so we feel like she's in a good place. The rest of them are married and grown. And we've been trying to figure out if we should just stay renting or if it would be smarter if the stairs are an issue or will be an issue at some point, or we are. So we were thinking about a ground floor condo, which seemed like pretty logical

because we don't want to do the outside maintenance anymore. But looking at a five-year, maybe 10-year survival rate and trying to keep our expenses low, I know what you say about 15-year mortgages. Should we push forward? We're trying to keep our – here's the other thing, too. $200,000 in investments, $200,000 cash sitting in our account right now, and $5,000 will be our monthly income on a private long-term disability income.

So we're trying to kind of keep our expenses under that $5,000 limit. And we think we can do that. You said you're 54 and 61? Yep. Yeah, he's almost 60. And the 14-year-old is with your oldest daughter because you guys are both undergoing treatment and can't care for the 14 year old right and my oldest daughter has a daughter her age and they've been raised as sisters so she's in there and this condo that we're looking at um is like right between our

two oldest daughters it's really close and how much is it? And we think we're close to our treatment. It'll be about $300,000. And we were thinking about putting $150,000 down, so we'd be financing $150,000. Yeah, I know. Job one is fight cancer. No kidding, Dave. Right. Right? No kidding, Dave. Right. Right? No kidding. But I mean, what answer to this question puts you in the best position to fight cancer for

five to ten years and give you the most peace and the most control of outside variables so that you don't have to focus on money stuff and instead can focus on job one, fighting cancer. I was hoping you were going to tell me you could buy that little condo for $200 and pay cash for it. Oh, I wish. And that would only leave $100 off. You need some cash. The money's in retirement.

Who's the money in retirement's name in? In my husband's. Again, I think the paradigm I'm going to use is not what is best for you when you're 80. It's what's best for you right now. And that's not usually a paradigm I use. But you need to focus on fighting cancer. And once you beat that, then we can turn the corner and start thinking about resetting some things if you want to um but the uh um but um so i really want you to find a two hundred thousand dollar something that will work for you that's close

enough to your kids but not the one you found that you can pay cash for and that's that's a difficult haul but um and i know it's not where you were headed you kind of got your heart set on this one condo um but i i just if you had zero payments and a condo that was main floor and would work for you you'd have no maintenance issues no exterior maintenance issues you didn't have the stairs and you're zero, that starts to sound like I don't have to think about money right now and I can fight cancer. But when I got a stinking house payment in the middle of this, there's a different thing, and the peace of not having that house payment, I think, will matter. Yeah.

Would we be unwise to take part of his investments out, pay taxes? Well, you're going to have not much money left. Yeah. And you may need some money to fight cancer, too. I mean, you might need to jump a flight and go do some alternative treatment and name the country, right? Yeah. And so I... Gosh, the market here is so crazy. Yeah, it is.

It is. But if I was... I would rather be 20 miles out of inconvenience than I would have a mortgage. See, and then I'm almost opposite that because that 20 miles means that our kids stop by or drop off groceries or are able to take us to a treatment appointment versus being 20 miles off. Well, you could do this. Okay. You could take out the $150,000 mortgage on a 30 year and if you need to and you still have the money laying there you could reach over and pay it off later instead of making

the decision today we could reverse that and we could say let's just buy it for cash and if we need some money we'll go take out a mortgage i don't like that one yeah both my husband and i both have term life insurance policies so of what size either of us go uh 250 each not a lot i actually was able to get like 87 000 because i had a rider if i was diagnosed with something terminal but we pulled out 87 of of that and that our premiums are going to start seeing an increase after it matures and definitely in a couple of years. So I don't know if we'll be able to maintain that. If I go quickly, then my husband will have that 250. He could pay off the remainder of the condo.

And if my husband goes, then I can take his insurance and pay off the remainder of the condo. I if my husband goes, then I can take his insurance and pay off the remainder of the condo. Yeah. I mean, we're just looking at this logically. Yeah. Which is a seriously weird and awkward conversation, but yeah. Yeah, it kind of is.

Yeah. I'm just calling the shots, though. We aren't. Amen. Amen. Mm-hmm. And so you're spiritually both of you in order then? Yeah, we're fine like that.

We're going to be fine. Okay. I'm so sorry. Yeah, I think I'm going to go with you. I think I'm going to take the $150,000 on 30 years, and I do want you to put something in the back of your mind that wasn't there before, and that is that if that mortgage starts to be a bother, reach over there and take enough out of the investments

and out of the rest of the savings account and pay it off. Okay. That feels right. That feels like good counsel. I appreciate you. You've been a godsend over the years for us, and the reason we're sitting here with no debt and some money is because we've tried to follow your principles.

So we're very grateful. Yeah. Hey, I'll tell you what. Hold on. I'm going to have Kelly pick up, and we're going to have one of our Ramsey Preferred coaches that we've trained in your area walk with you guys at our expense. No expense to you, okay? Hey, thank you so much.

I appreciate that. Sure. I'm so sorry you're facing this, darling. And you let us know if we can help you anyway as you go through this, as you make this journey. Man, both of them are stage four. Wow. Just in case you thought you had a problem today. James Childs, our producer.

Kelly Daniel, our associate producer. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show, make sure you visit DaveRamsey.com slash show and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell your story.