The Ramsey Show - App - Should We Involve Our Teens in a Big Family Decision? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: January 29, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today here on the air. Open phones as we talk about your life and your money. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Catherine is in Indianapolis. Hi, Catherine. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up in your world? Isey Show. Hi, guys. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up in your world? Thanks. I had a question for you guys. So my husband and I, we just welcomed our first child two weeks ago.

Woo-hoo! Congratulations. Thank you. We're really excited about it. So we're starting to plan ahead for his future. We're currently working through the baby steps on 4, 5, and 6. Good. So we've considered

setting up a 529 plan, but we've also talked through, do we consider a money market, mutual funds, savings account? We don't want it to just sit somewhere for 18 years and earn no interest, but we also don't know that we want to lock it into just being able to be used for college. So our question is, how do we decide between a 529 plan and all the other options or a little bit of both a couple of them and then also how do we determine how much to contribute yeah to start with you're limited on most 529s to ten thousand dollars and that's not making a decision you're not saying oh we're stuck if they don't go to college i mean ten thousand dollars not gonna kill you okay if you put $100,000 in there and you don't do anything else,

then maybe you're making a decision higher education is an absolute. Now, the 529 is not actually an investment. It is actually how the real investment is treated for tax purposes. So just like an IRA is not an investment, you can put a bank account, you know, inside of a savings account inside of an IRA, a money market inside of an IRA, or a mutual fund inside of an IRA. So you choose the type of investment that goes in there. So what you want is a 529 in good growth stock mutual funds.

But the only difference is you can buy the mutual funds in the kid's name or you can buy the mutual funds in the kid's name in a 529. The only difference is they grow in the 529 100% tax-free. So when that $10,000 turns into $40,000, that extra $30,000 that it made by the time the kid gets to college, which is about what it'll do, is not taxable. So you're saving on that scenario, on that one investment, you're saving $10,000 worth of taxes by putting it in a 529.

So I would do the 529. You don't have to fully fund it, but whatever you want to put in there, I'd get one started. Sit down with one of our SmartVestor pros. Click SmartVestor at DaveRamsey.com. They'll show you how to do it. But what you're doing is you are selecting a 529 plan with one of the states, their state plans, that allows you to invest in mutual funds, and you pick the mutual funds, and they don't move unless you move them.

That's the kind of 529 you're looking for. Some of them automatically move the funds around as the kid gets older. Some of them lock it in and it never can be moved. You don't want any of those. You want basically a mutual fund investment wrapped in the coat of a 529 for tax-free growth. Does that make sense to you? I think so.

So you're saying really stick with the 529 and get the mutual funds within it, but focus on that. Don't focus on any other. Yeah, I would not do anything else. Just star out. Not this stage. Now, if you look up and you got $150,000 in there someday, and you go, okay, I don't really want to put more than that in there

until I get a track on the direction this kid's going to go. I'm just going to save some money in the kid's name for them to do other stuff with. That's called an UTMA, Uniform Transfer to Minors Act, UTMA, which all that means is that people who are not 18 years old are not allowed to do contracts in America. So you can't open a mutual fund. You can't open a bank account. You can't open a checking account. Your mom and dad or somebody else that's an adult has to open it in your name

and they are the custodian and so you're in charge of it until they're 18 or 21 depending on your state and um so that's how for instance back when my kids were say we were saving for our kids to go to college there was no 529s there was no esas so we just opened up mutual funds in our kids names and i was the custodian and if they were doing cocaine uh they would have had a hard time finding the money even though it was technically theirs i would steal it okay because i'm that kind of dad i'm that kind of dad yeah so i'm the dinosaur dad so um yeah that that's the thing and so then you get to do that so john with your uh our audience maybe just joining us for the first time or first time when you've been on the air with me with a phd in higher ed and you spent many many years in higher ed and this year

has been the perfect storm for higher ed you know it was to start with we had the wake-up call of the epic student loan crisis which was kind of pointing out that some portions of higher ed are overcharging a wee bit. Right. And no kidding. And then now with this, they send kids home and are still trying to charge them the same amount, and they're just doing it on their computer, and everybody's going, I can take computer classes a lot cheaper than you're charging me. Higher ed's got a bit of a crisis going on.

And basically what it's done, though, is it's kind of shaken up and made people go, well, maybe I'm not saving for college like I would have. I don't want to trap this money because a kid might not go to college. As colleges, we know it might not be the same. That's right. And so we're going to see a difference in the savings patterns, I think, because of this. That's the most common question I get is fear of locking up money for 18 years and the assumption that the government is not going to change their mind over 18 years, that that money will even still be there in 18 years. And more importantly, will college as we know it, will it still exist in the way that we've come to know it in 18 years, right? And especially at its current inflation rate, it's going to cost eight hundred and fifty thousand dollars right so will we even have enough and so we all know that in 18 years

colleges are going to look different and so yeah that's the most common question i guess should i lock this money up or not yeah um and i think most people don't it's hard to have that money sitting in just your checking account right and not spend it yeah well you do need to lock it up uh and you do need to put it in tax-free growth the worst case scenario is higher ed completely turns on its head or your kid just says and you say i'm this kid's not going to college and you pull the money out you're just going to be taxed just as though it was in a regular mutual fund right yeah and you're gonna you have a penalty on it, but you're not going to lose all your money. Right. It's not like if you don't go, you know, the account evaporates.

And isn't it correct that that money can be used for any sort of educational endeavor, right? Yeah, technically, yeah. So if they want to go to tech school, want to be a diesel mechanic, yeah, that works. And it actually can be used for private school for your kid in high school. Ah, okay. That kind of thing, too.

And your siblings can use it. Matter of fact, any family member can use it. Mom could go back and get a PhD using your 529. Right. So it's not going to get stuck. Okay. You're going to be okay. And you do need to let it grow tax-free.

And you do need to park it in such a way that you keep your own grimy hands off of it because we all have these temptations. Right. Good question. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. Dave, I've heard you say kids don't get a vote. Is this true at any age? We're looking into moving our family into a different continent in Africa for a volunteer, and our teenagers are not on board.

How do we approach this? Ooh, I'm going to come back to that one after the break because we're about 10 seconds out. That's a big one. Yeah. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. If current times have shown us anything, it's that the least expected events can and will happen, and we have to deal with it. That's why everyone who has a family counting on them needs term life insurance. For over 20 years, the only company I've recommended is Zander Insurance. Not only because they search all of the top term life plans to find you the best rates,

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Kevin is on Instagram and says, I've heard you say before kids don't get a vote, is this true at any age? We're looking into moving our family to a different continent, a small village in Africa, for a year of volunteer and mission work, and our teenagers are not on board. How do we approach this? Well, first I need to answer the question a little more carefully. Our portion of this set it up.

Kids don't get a vote. What that means is the parents are in charge. Right. It doesn't mean that I don't admit that my children have desires and feelings about things, in some cases that are valid. And I take those into consideration. But I make a decision that is best for the overall family and for that child. I meet too many people where their children are in charge of their house, and the inmates are running the freaking asylum. And so that's what that the kids don't

get a vote comes from it doesn't mean we don't take their feelings or their desires or their best interest into consideration in any major decision we we got to talk to them right and they're worth a conversation i before we get to the answer to extrapolate on what you said to continue that understand that when you put your kids in charge when they get to make decisions that taxes them that destroys a child they don't have the wisdom or the strength to carry your family right that's harmful to a kid and not only is it not helpful it's harmful to a kid to expect them to be the kid that decides are we going to church what building we're going to where are we eating where are we going to live what neighborhood that a kid can't it doesn't have doesn't we used to come out of

church and when we would back after we finally got a little bit of money and could go out to eat we would say where do y'all want to go out to eat and it would proceed you know that four of them my wife and my three kids would argue for the next few minutes until i would just decide because you know you're right it just it didn't work right dadgum inmates running the asylum and so i'd look at sharon and go okay me and you're about to decide this because i'm tired of them in the back seat those people in the back seat didn't gain brains right so we're going to just decide and that's the joke but the the you know the truth is that i think you and i would take these teenagers feelings into consideration it doesn't mean i won't do it

right uh but and they don't get a vote per se and they're never you can't expect a teenager to understand what living in africa for years is going to be is going to do to their hearts and minds i can't understand it because i've never done it that's right and so no no teenager is going to be on board with hey we're going to leave everything you know go to another country away from your friends your family your community your church all that we're going to start over completely for a year your instagram're going to leave everything you know, go to another country away from your friends, your family, your community, your church, all of that, and we're going to start over completely for a year. Your Instagram's going to get totally screwed up. Everything's going to be messed up, right?

So go into it with a different mindset, but no, they don't. If you and your wife think that's the best interest for your family, for long-term... So you take them dragging, kicking, and screaming? I would think there is something wrong with my teenager if they're not kicking and screaming. Okay.

Because they don't know any different. Yeah. Right? They don't know it unless they just, you've trained them to have a robust sense of adventure. Right? Now, if you're living out some fantasy and this is against the best interest of your kids, we're all going to, I'm going to sell the house and we're gonna move to tennessee to pursue my songwriting career we're all gonna live in a one-bedroom apartment because i'm not gonna have

any money and the kids say that's a bad idea right they're being more adult than you are right right right but yeah so but i i wouldn't expect the teenager to be fully invested because they wouldn't understand they don't have the wisdom to look down the road they don't have the wisdom to look down the road. They don't have the wisdom to understand that my innate discomfort is not going to pay off in massive ways down the road. Yeah, I agree. I'm trying to think about when our kids were there, if we had wanted to do something like that, what would have happened?

They would have objected. Absolutely. No question about it. But I also would have objected absolutely no question about it but i also would like to think we never did it so i really don't have a test case but i would like to think that some other times that i had challenged them on something and said you know you didn't want to do this but we did it because i thought it was a good idea it worked out then um you know maybe i'd made some deposits there you go in earlier before i get to this decision so if only deposits you've made if all you've done is make withdrawals up to

this point and dad's constantly going on an adventure and it's constantly putting everybody in peril and the kids are tired of the emotional upheaval for dad chasing this weird adventure thing he's got uh then yeah you know i would give them that you know i'd give their voice much more credence but if all you've ever done is make sure that they're okay and other times you've stretched them and it turned out good to their benefit and they smiled but they didn't think when you went on that vacation it was going to work out and now this is another one then you've earned the right to force their hand. Those relational deposits, right?

And my hope would be that this isn't one of those things that someone was driving home from work, and they thought, I hate my job. It's time for me to do something drastic. My hope is when you're going to make a transition like this. It's been incremental and well thought out. You've taken your family there before for a week or two. You have shown them videos and pictures, and you've met families from there. And it's a part of the fabric of your life.

Right. Exactly. One of the best things we did with our teens was send them on missions trips, but they were a week long. Right. Or whatever. Or Sharon went on several of the trips with them because they get out of the prosperity bubble and see real-world poverty and see people that are happy in spite of living in a cardboard box. And so it redefines happiness.

It's not based on stuff or electronics or screen time. It's reset and bust the bubble. And so it was very valuable in that regard. This would be a bigger version of that. These kids could come home changed. Transformed forever. Right. And that's where I say, again, a teenager can only feel in right now.

They're not fully developed. That's why we don't give them car keys. That's why we don't give them the ability to vote or to fill in the blank, right? Because we have all decided they don't have the maturity to handle some of that because they live in the right now, in the what is going to keep me comfortable and keep me engaged in my community right now. And they wouldn't have the wisdom to see beyond that. But I love what you said, man.

There's got to be some relational deposits along the way. So if you're going to make life transitions. I don't feel guilty about forcing it if I'm not being irresponsible. Absolutely not. And if I have made deposits. That's right. If after that they're throwing a little hissy fit, then they'll just have to do it. And I would expect them to.

They're kids. Yeah, I know. But I mean, I'm just saying that's part of the equation. But I'm okay. I'm not going to be going, oh, I've ruined my child's life. Because they actually are going to say, you've ruined my life. That's actually a phrase they will use. I hate you.

You're killing me. You're ruining everything. I loved that boy. Right? All the stuff. My Instagram's going to go dormant. That's right. I'm going to lose all my followers. Yes. All the stuff. My Instagram's going to go dormant. That's right. I'm going to lose all my followers.

Yes. All the super tragic stuff, right? Yeah. It's all over for when that happens. Your ability to do a reality show later is going down the tubes. And so. Darn. That's awful.

I hate it that that happened. Rebecca is in Salt Lake City. Hi, Rebecca. Welcome to Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, John. Thanks for taking my call this afternoon. happened rebecca is in salt lake city hi rebecca welcome to dave ramsey show hi dave hi john thanks for taking my call this afternoon sure what's up so um my husband and i just got started on your whole process we're on baby step two and before we were introduced to you we bought a car on a lease and so we're trying to um we want to pay it off but i'm not sure if there's any penalties or fees associated with paying it off early i've talked to nissan and they said that there aren't any fees or penalties um there aren't as

a matter of fact you will save money for doing a Nissan lease can be paid off early. It's like paying a regular car loan off early. You save the interest for the years that you don't have it. And in a lease, there's not technically interest, although they obviously charge a cost of funds is what's built into it. That equates in most cases to about 14%. So it's not a really good deal, as you found out. So you call and get the early buyout figure from Nissan. Did they give that to you? Yes, they did.

Okay. What is that? It's $23,818.23. Okay. And what is your lease payment? Our lease payment is $339.69 a month. And how many months are left on the fleece? 24.

Okay. So if you multiply 339 times 24 plus what you were under contract, you can pull your contract out and look at it. What you can buy the car for at the end of the fleece, you will find that is $5,000 more than $23,000. It's going to be about $26,000 to $28,000. So I'm going to guess and say when you do the math that by paying it off early, and you can only do it in one lump sum. They won't take extra payments. But by paying it off early, you're going to save $3,000 to $5,000.

That's my guess. This is The Dave Ramsey Solutions, Jake and Carrie are with us on the debt-free stage. Hey, guys, how are you? Good. How are you? Welcome, welcome. Where do you guys live? Mascoutah, Illinois, so right outside of St. Louis. St. Louis folk, welcome to Nashville. Good to have you. And all the way down here to do a debt-free screen. How much have you paid off? $90,838. Very good. And how long did that take? Two years and

seven months. All right, very good. And your range of income take? Two years and seven months. All right. Very good. And your range of income during that time? We started out at $75,000 and up to $120,000 now. Very good. What do you guys do for a living? I'm a dental hygienist. And I'm an estimator for a construction company.

Very good. Very good. So your income shot way up, really, over the last two years. Very good. Excellent. What do you attribute that to? We both just kind of found out we were underpaid and took new jobs, same field, and jumped our income up. Yeah.

Once you start trying to get out of debt, you're looking for money, and you're going, I think I need more money. Yeah, that's a good thing. Wow. Very cool. You were almost underpaid by half. Yeah. I took a big pay bump when I moved companies. Wow.

That's pretty impressive. Good for you guys. Yeah, well done. All right, what kind of debt was the $91,000? Just like $1,800 on a credit card, like $2,300 on a car. And we found out like $500 on some medical that was in collections we had no idea about halfway through. And then all the rest was student loans. Bunch of student loan debt.

Okay, $23,000 on a car? No, $2,300. $2,300. You had a bunch of student loans. A bunch of student loan debt. Okay. $23,000 on a car? No, $2,300. $2,300. You had a bunch of student loans? Yeah. Yes. Wow. So we're talking like $80,000 worth.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Oh, my goodness. Very cool. All right. So what happened two years and seven months ago that got this started? So it started a little before that.

My brother-in-law, who's here, unexpectedly lost his job, and they started going through Fpu and telling us about it and so we kind of us and my mom my parents jumped on the on the bandwagon and uh today we're all debt free wow it was had happened to be a job loss that got everyone going it's a family affair i love it i love it wow very cool so uh he gets it started because he's freaking out losing his job and you guys jump into the class just kind of okay well let's check this out yep and went through financial peace university all right very neat so okay so you kind of wander in i mean you didn't have it was like yeah i'll check it out sounds like right is that i mean we had accounts, and I was stressed because I paid all the bills, and

she did all the fun stuff for her. I mean, you were normal. You were normal. We just got married. You pretty much just kind of stumbled into this thing because of the brother-in-law, and then you go to that first class or second class or third class. When did it click, and you went, oh, my God, we've got to do this? Honestly, before, I started watching your show as soon as I heard about it, and I'm

telling her everything, and I did the wrong approach where I'm like, you know, we got to do this. Honestly, before I started watching your show, as soon as I heard about it, I'm telling her everything and I did it, did the wrong approach where I'm like, you know, we're selling everything and doing it. And she's like, whoa, no, we're not. So we went to the class and kind of got on the same page, started budgeting. We were paying over $1,500 a month in student loan payments. Oh my gosh. So.

Yeah. She's a dental hygienist. Her bull crap-o-meter is pretty high, right? Yeah. How many people a week tell you that they-o-meter's pretty high, right? Yeah. How many people a week tell you that they floss and they're lying to you, right? Oh, yeah. All the time. So she's got you, man. She knows.

Yes. So he comes to you and says, we're selling everything. The most lied-to profession in the world. In the world is the dental hygienist. That's right. Followed by the person at the airline counter as to why we're changing our tickets, right? So he comes to you and says, I'm going to sell everything. What's your response?

I definitely was nervous about it at first. I wasn't. Yeah. And I didn't, I wasn't for it at first, I'll be honest. So, and I don't think I really was into it and believing it until we were really starting to see things paid off. Yeah. I think when I said I'm going to sell my motorcycle to to get it going i think that's when she was probably okay he's pretty serious yeah as opposed to selling her car which we didn't have much cars to sell

anyways yeah okay all right wow guys very cool so uh when people ask and you know your whole family's gotten out of debt your parents or brother-in-law the whole bit um and they ask what's the key because you've observed it with your family you've also lived it you're experts now on getting out of debt so people want to know in america how do you get out of debt what are the keys uh i would just i would say one of the things is dedication and you got to stay motivated it It's really hard. When you first start, you're fired up. You're paying off all these little ones. But when you get three-quarters of the way through and you're trying to pay off a $12,000 debt,

and it's just taking months and months, it's dragging on. I led FPU a couple times, so that was helpful. Our whole family going through it. Leading it makes you do it even more than going through it. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like people hearing people doubt you helps you too. Ooh.

Huh. You're a little competitive. A lot of those. Yeah. A lot of our friends doubted us. Yeah. I'll show you. So now you get to say how you like me now, right? Yeah.

Yeah. Have a little Toby Keith moment. We want you to call out every one of your haters right now. Give us their names right now. Their cell numbers. That's right. It's like going back to the mean girl in high school. Oh, my gosh.

Wow. It is motivating. People tell you you can't do something, especially once you've decided you're going to. You're like, I'll show you. Yeah, that's good. That is very good yeah there's a guy in the radio business that wrote a real nasty letter one time about how the

dave ramsey show wasn't going to be worth anything it would never amount to anything and we framed it and put it on the wall in the radio area just to fuel us just pissed me off like a decade worth of pissed off yeah i mean yeah he's not in the business anymore either by the way so uh and we are but yeah i mean that's just yeah come on bring it yeah that i agree with not that dave hangs on to things or anything like that right i don't have any issues with grudges oh no dave if you don't know is actually uh latin for the word grudge so it's good guys way to go we're so so very proud of you so you guys were cheering each other on you had people on fpu cheering you on you were cheering them on there's a lot of a lot of positive around you too right yeah we uh just to say that within the last three

years our whole family my parents paid off their house they're people we paid off in the last less than three years 300 over almost30,000 between three families. Yeah, there we go. I like a family total. That's good. Very good. Has this brought your family together? Yeah.

You brought them with you, right? Yeah, they're all here. They're all over here holding on to the grandbaby, which is really hard work. Yeah. How old is your baby? He's eight weeks. Eight weeks old. Eight weeks.

Man. So y'all are in the thick of it. We had a goal. We had two things we wanted to do. We needed to get a newer car because we had a two-door car and one without air conditioning. So we saved up during COVID, actually. And I know you tell people to pause, but we just wanted to get it done. And so we bought a $14,000 SUV, cash, we saved up for.

Wow. And then we wanted to have that and be debt free before he was born so he didn't have to ever live with debt there you go wow he won't his your family tree is changed and your dad's family tree's changed i mean that's that's this is very cool the generational we're looking at right here three generations very very cool way to go guys i love it well we got a copy of chris hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. Of course, that's the next chapter in your story for sure. You are on the way.

$120,000 income now and having paid off $91,000 over two years and seven months. They're going to bring this little baby over. Oh, you're going to scream with the baby? With the special headphones. Oh, he's got the headphones on. That's good. That way we don't scare him and wake him up. Yeah.

We've had some parents that just blew their kids here. A little too excited. Oh, he's cute. Very fun. Very fun. If they stayed a little out, I had 10. They kept growing up wanting cars and tuition. But, yeah, way to go, you guys.

Very well done. All right. Here it is. Jake and Carrie and Brayden from St. Louis area. $91,000 paid off in two years and seven months, making $75,000 to $120,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free! Brayden never flinched. Not even a little bit. He's just still sleeping. I love it. That's so cool, man. That is awesome. Look at it.

There's three generations out there. Man, that's so neat. So neat. And a few tears, too. That's so cool, man. Every time it's cool. I mean, wow. When you can change something like that, that's breathtaking.

It is. So next time you lose your job, just go ahead and get your brother and sister-in-law out of debt, your mom and dad out of debt, and yourself out of debt. That's turning the negative into a positive. How's that for all things that work together? I love it, man. That's fun stuff. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. for which of you desiring to build a tower does not sit down first and count the cost whether he

has enough to complete it jesus's words in luke 14 28 our scripture of the day tony robbins said setting goals is the first step to turning the invisible into the visible. Very true. Abby is with us in Flint, Michigan. Hi, Abby. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi. Thank you for taking my call.

My honor. How can we help? So I am wondering which baby step I'm on, and I'm wondering whether I'm baby step two or four. So a little bit of background. I am in college right now and I'm in my first year of community college and I have enough saved for my second year plus a couple extra thousand. Good for you. Well done. Thank you. So I don't think that I want to get the entire four-year degree. I think that I'm just wanting to get my associate's degree and then go into the military.

But I'm just not sure whether I should start investing or if I should keep piling up the cash in case I do decide to go to university. You should keep piling up the cash in case you decide to go to university. Once you've made the decision, you can decide. If you decide not to go, you have a pile of cash. Okay. There's no downside to that strategy. The baby steps really are for you're in the middle of your education process, and the baby steps are really for after you get out of education. When you graduate and you're in the middle of your education process and the baby steps are really for after

you get out of education when you graduate and you're working a job then you work through the process of building your emergency fund getting out of debt and starting to build wealth in your retirement and paying off your house but you're right now you have you have really one goal finish your education if that's a two-year or a four-year okay that's your only goal even like with all my extra money just just let it sit i won't hurt anything count there's nothing wrong with having a pile of cash when you are ready to make a decision it helps you to make the decision if you're broke you make a different decision than if you're not broke yep you might go into the military kind of sort of not wanting to because you need the money to eat

or you might go into the military to serve your country on a very noble thing because you have a complete choice because there's thirty thousand dollars laying in your account john what would you coach her on a hundred percent yeah there's no downside your goal is to get out of whatever education endeavor debt-free, and then you can make other decisions later. The challenge you're going to have is you're bored and you're smart, and so community college, your first semester is boring you, and so you're trying to figure out other things to be doing and just be at peace with where you are right now.

Knock your classes out. Learn a lot. If you can get an internship, if you can get a job in the field where you want to be learning, go for it. But just follow the plan. Be slow and enjoy your time. If you're going to go

to the military, life's about to change in a drastic way. Or if you go to a four-year degree and graduate, then life changes. So enjoy where you're at.

Okay. Have some peace. You're doing it right. You're kicking butt. You are way, way, way ahead of the game, Abby. Way ahead. Here's the main reason you're way ahead.

Not only are you accomplishing these goals with cash and you're building up some cash, that's impressive. But what's most impressive is most people just do not do life with any sense of intentionality. And you're just being very intentional. And that's really weird for people. Most people don't do it. Most people just kind of wander along and then wonder why they're broke. They wander along and then wonder why they got a degree in left-handed puppetry that's useless. And they wander along and they go, well, I got this degree in, you know, Gothic poetry.

And, you know, then I can't figure out why I can't get a job because there are no little woods fairies hiring. That's the problem. And so, oh, my God, god you know it's just the kind of stuff right so that actually did happen the other day but there's a degree gothic guy who got a minor in gothic poetry so um it did happen uh higher ed is an industry listen to me you're doing it to yourself. Stop. That's all. That's all. Just stop. If you don't offer that degree, we won't make fun of you anymore. Stop.

I'm trying to help you from the inside here, man. Stop. You're doing it to yourself as an industry. Yeah. So you, Abby, you are not doing any of that stupid stuff. You are being very smart, very intentional. I meet people who kind of life happens to them until they're 35 or 40, and then they decide they have to be intentional and happen to life.

And so you are way ahead of the game. And by the way, you have more options on the table than are more options that you could choose than the ones you put on the table. So the options will continue to unfold for you, and you'll continue to make great calls. You are a sharp young lady. Heidi is in Wichita, Kansas. Hey, Heidi, how are you? I'm good. Thank you for taking my call.

Sure. What's up? Well, I'm a little nervous, so hopefully I can get this out. Okay. But we are in a situation, my husband and I, we're 52 and 47, and both of us have basically been self-employed most of our lives. Um, he is a freelance artist. Um, I am a groomer and he has actually, and is there now taking a job in Philadelphia

that is an art, art based government job. Um, we are trying to make sure that we are making the right decision in making this move if that's what we end up committing to. Is he over there testing it or he took the job? Didn't you already make the decision? Well, we decided he could take the job. We haven't sold the house i'm still in in kansas um just to make sure that it was a good thing before we sold our house and all of those things um so he took the job and wasn't sure of it right well you know being self-employed he has he has done um you know, production-type jobs.

Okay, so how can we best help you? Just, you know, we're in Baby Steps. We're six and seven. We have no children. But had just actually finished Baby Step 3 just as a pandemic hit, basically. So your program has been ultra important to us. Thank you.

Just struggling with moving from our house. We all nail about $90,000 on it. So what did he used to make as a freelancer? Sculpture. No, I'm sorry. Money money how much money oh okay money um last year um before expenses was 118 461 okay and that was for both of us and that was for both of

us what did he then uh you know i think that was for both that may have just been the business total after expenses was 77 749 he made he made $70,000 doing sculptures net profit I think that was both of us okay I make 45 so he made $35,000 doing sculpture okay and how much has it been more than how much is the well you're going to get your number I make $45,000. Okay, so he made $35,000 doing sculpture. Okay, and how much is the... It had to have been more than that. How much is the... Well, you're going to have to get your number straight because it's going to matter. Sorry, I thought I had...

That's okay. What's the government paying him? $108,461 this year, and then it'll go up to $115 next year. So suffice it to say he more than doubled his income. Yeah, except that you're also dealing with higher um yeah cost of living different world and so forth and then the next question is do you not want to live there because you really don't sound like you want to leave kansas to me um i have a sister and a one year old niece um that lived four blocks from my house is Was that a yes or a no?

It's an unsure. I would rather stay here with them, but I am open to the move. The benefit the move gives me is getting to potentially change careers. Grooming is what I've done for 25 years, and it is very hard on the body. Okay, so what I'm going to tell you is nothing is forever, and it doesn't have to be forever. If you go to Philadelphia, and two years from now, it's not an adventure, it's a nightmare, go home. You're both self-employed and smart and good.

You'll figure it out. Go home. Go start again, and you'll be fine. I think you're making this too permanent. You're acting like this is a death sentence, or you're going to jail and you can't get out. And you're going to miss that niece. You can fly back over there. You're acting like this is a death sentence or you're going to jail and you can't get out. And you're going to miss that niece.

Once you take, well, you can fly back over there. You have four times more money. Yeah. So buy an airline ticket. But he's already

taking the job. So at this point, the ship has sailed and gone. Yeah, I think you're second guessing after you've already done your decision.

Right. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. Thanks to James Childs, our producer, Kelly Daniel, our associate producer

and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey guys, this is Kelly, associate producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know over 16 million people listen to The Dave Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country.

To find the station near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.