The Ramsey Show - App - Should We Keep Making Aggressive Mortgage Payments? (Hour 1)

Episode Date: April 25, 2023

Dave Ramsey & Dr. John Delony answer your questions and discuss: Refinancing vs. making aggressive mortgage payments The importance of insurance, "How do I get my spouse on board?" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. We help people build wealth through do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. My co-host today, Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality number one, best-selling author. We will be answering your questions about your life and your money. Thank you for jumping in, America. The phone number is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Jeff is going to start us off this hour in Cincinnati.

Hi, Jeff. How are you? Hey, Jeff. I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm kind of a new follower.

I just found you earlier this year. We had some questions about potentially refinancing our house. We originally bought it back in January of 2021. This was obviously before we knew you, and we got a 30-year loan at 2.5%. And now, kind of considering, do we move to a 15-year, but my biggest concern with that is that we're giving up that 2.5% rate to go somewhere around 5% or so. You're right to be concerned. I would not do that.

You're right. Okay. No, you keep the existing mortgage you have. If you calculate a 30-year mortgage and you calculate a 15-year mortgage at the same interest rate, in your case, two and a half, and you pay the difference, like you took out a 30 and you pay the extra amount and the difference between a 15 payment and a 30 payment, it will pay off in exactly 15 years. Okay. You do not have to refinance to pay a loan in exactly 15 years. Okay. You do not have to refinance to pay a loan off in 15 years.

You just have to pay it like it's a 15-year payment, and it'll pay right out. Or more, of course, and then it would pay out even sooner. So never refinance just to move from a 30 to a 15 because you take on the closing costs at a minimum. And in this case, you'd go up an interest rate. So you never do that. Just pay extra on it, and you'll get there. Okay. That was easy, wasn't it?

As far as how much a house I can afford, We're well within the 25% calculating it off of the 2.5% rate that we have. But with rates now, I know we're not refinancing, but that would obviously put us probably closer to the 30% mark. Do we have... Well, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You're fine. The reality is your house payment is a fourth of your take-home pay at a 15-year on two and a half. And so you're fine. The reason we put that in place is not to keep people from buying homes. And, John, people are really mad right now about house prices. Apparently I hate homeownership and I'm an unrealistic old boomer or whatever other terms of derision you can throw at my bald head.

But I don't care if you get a house you can't afford. It doesn't affect me. It affects you if you buy a house you can't afford. Jeff's in good shape. He's not got any issues. But here's the thing. And I've been answering this question the same way for 30 years. Like, we have people call us from California.

Well, Dave, you can't buy a house in California for that're you know you can't buy a house in california for that uh that means you can't you can't buy a house in california for that that's what that means and you also may not be able to buy a bentley uh you also may not be you know when i grew up that this county that we live in is the 11th wealthiest county in the nation the wealthiest county in tennessee williamson county tennessee where you and i are sitting right now where both of us live now when i was growing, that's where the rich people lived. And we said stuff like, you can't afford to live there. And you know what? Not everybody can afford to live there.

Not everybody can afford to live on Rodeo Drive or in downtown Manhattan or downtown Tokyo or downtown London. It's freaking expensive. And so sometimes you just have to say, can't afford it number one but number two the reason for this is we know from the data of doing this for 30 years that your most likely way to become wealthy is to get your home paid off as soon as possible and all other debts too because it frees up your most powerful wealth building tool and so if you keep a mortgage around like it's a pet for your whole life because you're thinking well i'm always going to have a mortgage and the only way i can afford a mortgage the only way i'm ever going to get a house because i'll never get a house i'll never get a house i'm

so stuck and it's just not fair and life's not fair and i'm a four-year-old on the cereal aisle throwing a fit and i want captain crunch dead blame it you know and it's just like and you just everybody's acting like that right now. And so I'm sorry. I'm sorry that when I was a kid, I couldn't live in Williamson County. I couldn't afford it. My family didn't make that kind of money. I'm sorry. I had a traumatized childhood.

I'm sorry. But it's the way life is. And so, you know, the answer is no. The reason you tell yourself no is so you can tell yourself yes later. So if you go buy a house you can't afford and you go take car payments out that you can't afford and you go take, which nobody can, you go take out a student loan and you go take out MasterCard and Visa and American Distress, you're going to be normal. And normal is you work your whole life and give all of the money you earn to someone else

in the form of payments and retire broke and hope social insecurity will take care of you who the crap wants to be normal right and so you've got to break this cycle and not be angry at me or at the world or at instagram or twitter or whatever it is you're angry at this week um because house prices went up i I'm really sorry. I, I don't want you to be upset and I don't want you to not have a house, but also don't want you to do something stupid. That's going to keep you broke your whole life. I'll throw a third one on there, Dave. I have found in my life when I've had a 30 year mortgage and I've had a couple of those in the 15 year, I can have all the best intentions with a 30-year mortgage, but when it comes down to it,

every single month, somebody invites me out to a thing or, hey, we're all going out to this thing. And whether I've got the best intentions or I've got all the willpower in the world, it's really hard for me to make that, to double that payment or to make that gap payment between the 30-year note is

requiring me to pay and what I could be paying for that 15-year. With the 15-year, I'm locked into it. I got to do it. One of the things I figured out when I very first started doing this stuff with Financial Peace, when I started studying rich people, is they put smart things on autopilot. Yes. I don't want to think about it a hundred percent of the 15-year mortgages pay off in 15 years or less a hundred percent or they get foreclosed on i mean a hundred percent of them do okay people that take out a 30 promising to pay a 15 the studies say 92 percent do not stick with the schedule i was just if you if you put a system in place that you have to be in the top 8% is the only way you win. You lose.

That's dumb. I just was listening to some obesity researchers today, and they were talking about step one, create an environment where you can at least attempt to be successful. Get the junk out of your house. Yeah. Right? You can't have it all there and say, I'm going to make good choices because you're not going to make good choices. Well, James Clear talks about that in Atomic Habits.

Yeah. Talks about the exact same thing. What is it? You can't have it all there and say, I'm going to make good choices because you're not going to make good choices. James Clear talks about that in Atomic Habits. He talks about the exact same thing. What is it? You're trying to create a habit, then don't put stuff that's contrary to the habit right in front of you. The opposite of paying the mortgage off early, another autopilot, is the 401Ks. That's why they're so successful. You never see the money. It just comes out of your check automatically.

Or an auto draft on your checking account for your Roth IRAs or your kid's 529. You're an automatic investor. And David Bach had a bestselling book, The Automatic Millionaire or whatever it was called. And he said, just put everything on automatic. And you know what? There's something to that. And so quit thinking you have superpowers just to get to buy crap you can't afford. It's a bad idea.

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open phones at 888-825-5225 one of the things we are doing today and this week is we're talking about the importance of insurance uh the subject no one likes to talk about everybody say it with me insurance sucks until you need it, right? And then it doesn't. And then when you got it and you need it, it's like the right kind and you did the right thing. But it's confusing. Too many people buy the wrong stuff. They spend the wrong money on the wrong things.

But insurance is a huge blessing because people that build wealth not only play offense, they also play defense. And insurance is the defense side. And so in honor of uh this insurance week here we're talking about the confidence in your coverage program that george camel put out uh with our ramsey trusted people and all the stuff details on your insurance it's really good stuff donna is on the line donna's in Pensacola, Florida. So Donna, talk about insurance and the importance of it in your life. Donna? Donna? I'm here. Can you hear me? Yes, ma'am. Hey, how are you? I'm good. How are you today? Good. Talk about insurance and the importance of it in your situation.

So I wanted to speak specifically to insurance and life insurance with second marriages. There's a lot of people out there with second marriages, and it adds in some factors that maybe you hadn't thought about before. So what happened in my situation was my husband passed away two years ago. And when I contacted the, um, department at his work for life insurance, it turns out they never got his change of beneficiary form. So when we both got married, we both filled out the change of beneficiary forms and we sent them in and apparently they got mine and didn't get his so all of his life insurance went to his ex-wife who you know hated him and

didn't want to have anything to do with them and so we had no idea we were married for three years we had no idea that they never received that document and we could have known we could have known because they send you back a copy that they received it we never followed up to check on it um another thing that happened was you get when you retire or die you get paid for your unused vacation time and unused sick leave. They're considered separate leave, and one of them has a beneficiary form and the other one doesn't. Well, he'd worked there for 30 years. So, you know, back when he was 18,

he had signed a beneficiary form for whichever one has one and totally forgot that that even existed because it's not like a huge amount of money like life insurances so turns out he didn't change that beneficiary form so it went to somebody else and then i got the other one like his parents or something or no he he was married for a short time back when he was 18 so it probably went back to that wife oh my, my gosh. Okay. Yeah. This sucks. All the ex-wives got money. All the ex-wives got money.

Well, I got the TSP, but the life insurance, I think, was higher at that point in time. And another thing that I came across, and I don't know which this is from. I don't know if it's from his military time or from a life insurance policy or what it was from, but there was somebody who before they would distribute funds, I had to come up with the marriage dates and divorce dates of the previous spouses. So he'd been married a short time when he was very young, when he was in the military, and then he'd been married for a long time for a second marriage and i was the third so i looked through all his forms and i found all that and had it but i i called up you know people that i knew that were on a second marriage i'm like i guess because they were trying to prove that he wasn't married to more than one person

yes they wanted to make sure that he really was divorced from previous marriages. Wow. Yeah, so those are all things that I'm recommending that people look into. Don't just assume you've got all your details in order. So when you went through the confidence in your coverage series, is that the kind of thing that jumped out to you, or did you pick up something else? The thing that jumped out to me in that, because I had been, uh, I had been listening intently and for a few years. And so I had, you know, background on almost everything. But one thing that jumped out to me in the little questionnaire that you take yourself was about long-term care insurance. And I'm 57,

so I'm not 60 yet, but it caused me to check into it because I have a diagnosis that I thought might make me ineligible. And it did. So it just, um, it's, it's a kidney disease. It doesn't affect my life. I'm totally healthy. I just have to get my blood checked every year to make sure it isn't progressing. So I don't think about it a lot, but it's enough to make me ineligible for long-term care insurance. I wouldn't be able to get life insurance now, things like that, that if you get a diagnosis,

and I've had the diagnosis for 20 years. So if you get it when you're younger and you find out you're ineligible later for these things, you need to go ahead and build up your nest egg and be prepared for those kinds of expenses. For real, for real. So it sounds like what you're mentioning here goes back to one word that I just keep hearing over and over as you're talking, and that's this idea of being highly intentional about

the hard conversations. There is a chance, no matter how small, that something may happen to one of you. And we need to make sure all of our ducks in a row, and we need to make that extra phone call at work, sit down with our insurance agent, and make sure we're covered. Make sure these things are in order so that if the unthinkable happens, which in your case it did, we're covered. Everybody's on the same page.

He was 49 when he drowned in the Gulf of Mexico. So if you think, oh, I'll check into it when when i'm older don't check into it when you're older when it comes to second marriages there's so many other things to think about another thing to think about is the relationship your spouse has with your own kids because you need to think when you get married a second time you need to think okay yes we our life insurance policies are mirrored. They say the same thing. Everything will go to our kids, but that's only if you die at the same time. If one of you dies first and the person who survives doesn't have a relationship with your kids and everything is going to your spouse that you love and that you chose. And then, and then

later on they die, everything goes to their kids, and your kids get nothing. You might want some stuff to go to your kids when you die because your spouse may live longer, and your spouse may marry somebody else. And then their kids, some parts you don't even know gets everything, and then your kids and your spouse's kids don't get any of it. It gets super complicated to do a will and to do the beneficiaries and everything. Yeah. Right.

And thinking through not necessarily the first movement, the first rhythm, if something happens, but the second one is the one that's hard to anticipate. Yeah. Yeah. Because all the beneficiary forms I've seen say, if you fill this out, then boom, that person gets it. Whatever you want happens if you don't fill it out then the system has to go through the process of figuring out who really gets it and if it's your first marriage it's going to be the spouse if you're in second marriage holy cow you have no idea what's going to happen yeah yeah wow that's good insight don. Thank you for sharing all that. Wow. Pretty important. Crazy, crazy stuff. Well, you can go to RamseySolutions.com and check out the Confidence in Your Coverage series.

There is a five-part series there. They're all very short. They're all very fun and funny because it is George Campbell, after all. And RamseySolutions.com slash confidence. It is a free five-day video guide to walk you through the different kinds of insurance. And Donna's insights are really, really valuable there. And, you know, the thing is, John, these aren't things right. Doing a will, making sure your beneficiaries are right, making sure the name on your mutual fund account is changed.

All those kinds of things are, none of this is like sit down and have fun. No. This is not like I get to do the most fun thing this weekend. I'm working on this crap. Right. But, you know, when you've got all that in order, that is one way you are saying to your wife, your husband, your kids, I love you. I love you. Even when I'm not here i love you yeah it's it's that level of diligence and by the way it is the

difference in poor people and rich people often wealthy people do this kind of stuff uh people who won't have any money doesn't matter well it's kind of a correlation there you know do the do do the intentional, diligent thing. Take care of the little things, and the big things tend to take care of themselves. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Zach and Megan are with us. Hey, guys, how are you?

Good. How are you? Good. Better than we deserve. Good to have you. Where do y'all live? Dalton, Georgia. Ah, just down over the Tennessee line then, huh? Yes, sir. Welcome to Nashville. How much debt did you pay off?

Just about $51,000. Good for you. And how long did that take? Right at two years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time uh we started out around 35 000 and we're up to about 128 nice jump okay so what kind of debt was the one was the 51 000 uh we had some medical bills some student loans and some auto loans y'all were kind of normal. Absolutely. How long you been married? Seven years. Okay so I guess somebody got a job that didn't have one or how did you go from 35 to 128? I graduated

with my bachelor's and got a real estate license and an insurance license actually and she graduated with her master's degree. In what? Social work. Okay and Yep. And were you working before that? Yeah, just part-time jobs. But I mean, you took on like a big income then. Yes. And then your income went way up with real estate. Yes. Okay. What a time to stumble into that job, man.

Wow. Excellent. Excellent. Excellent. So what happened that made you decide get out of debt is good for our new young marriage? Well, we actually saw you live in 2015 um then we kind of did diet day for a little bit diet day okay we definitely didn't go all the way and then um and so we got your book and then later on actually went through the class and uh when she came along

our little one a couple years ago that's when we really decided we wanted to change the family tree okay oh wait a minute this is this just got real we got a baby we got to like be grown up yes yeah so then you get the book off the shelf and go no ish we're doing it absolutely okay wow good for you who had the conversation with who that was probably uh a little more me i would uh when i first heard about you if i was working for someone, it was about eight years ago, and I was cleaning pools. And I was riding around with a business owner. He was in this old broken down van lot of wealthy people that when I mentioned your name they they spoke highly of you and the plan and I was like okay there's definitely something behind this so Megan you just you just went like like you were not in at all huh no I was definitely on board um it's it's more just trying the discipline of buckling down. I think in, you know, we were newly married,

and I feel like our first couple months of marriage, you know, everything comes at you at once, financial issues, and you're trying to navigate those. And so he came to me with this plan, and I just thought he was crazy. But I've always trusted him, and here we are seven years later, and I'm glad that I did. What happened at the two-year mark? The real estate thing where you got the influence of wealthy people? When she was born.

She's two years old. Okay. Yes. And what's your two-year-old's name? Wren. Wren. Okay, sweet. Very good.

And Zach, are you a schemer? A schemer. And I say that not in a bad way, but like you're a pool cleaner, and then I'm going to do insurance, I'm going to do real estate. He hopped around a little bit, yes. But you seem like you guys always got a plan, and I can imagine sitting down and being like, all right, I got a new plan to get out of debt.

And you're like, all right. I'm about as nerdy as I get. I started in taxes and then went to real estate and then went from real estate to insurance. And I kept my real estate license. Megan, you must be the funnest human being ever to counterbalance. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

Of course. That's awesome. Yes. He's definitely the nerd on the free spirit. There we go. Definitely. Okay. Good.

Good. All right. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? You pay off $51,000 in debt in two years. The, uh, the communication for sure. And, um, really just getting together on a plan and giving that why, why we're doing this, what the goal is and having that shared goal. Like what, what's our plan? Um, I had someone tell me, um, in real estate, actually they were planning on retiring at 55 and I was like, Hey, doing that, you know, he planned on what what is that and he's like no I mean I'm saving for retirement I'm

planning for retirement and I just I I don't know it was just I couldn't fathom that and so as I we got on the plan and we started learning more I was like okay if we get on board we're um both of us are not 30 yet I was like I think we can get this done and we can actually retire early and so we started talking about retirement at our early age now and it's just I don't know having that why is very important it is so Megan what do you say what's the reason you all got out of debt I mean what is the thing you did that got you out of $51,000 in debt um definitely discipline um and and really working to be content um I think it's it's really hard you scroll through social media and you see everyone doing everything um and so I think really being content

where we were um you know when just in our living situation and um just everything our jobs at the time and being content in each season of life and and working together and um and convincing myself that i was content i eventually became content so yeah it is a it's a uh it's a spiritual state of being that you that you have to aspire to you have to want to do it it's not it doesn't just come on you like a weather pattern or something. I mean, you have to decide, I'm going to be content. And that's very cool. I like that.

Coming from a free spirit in particular, that's very important. Yes. And because that's, I'm the spender out of the two of us. Sharon's the tightwad, the saver. And so for me to stop spending required that same exercise even though i'm a nerd spender which is a little weird but uh but uh the spending part you know i distinctly remember going to costco and leaving with nothing and it was like this personal spiritual victory because i thought it was like a federal law you had to spend 200 every time you

went in there like that's why they check your little thing when you're checking out. You know, make sure you spent $200, right? And so it was a breakthrough. I mean, I was like your age when that happened. And I suddenly went, I don't have to have stuff. Wow, that's like I'm off drugs or something. It's pretty cool. And so that's very insightful.

Very well done. Good job, you guys. Very proud of you. Thank you. Who were your biggest cheerle you guys very proud of you thank you who were your biggest cheerleaders outside the two of you uh we definitely had family that supported us through this especially our grandparents our grandparents thought this was a lot of common sense and they're right i told him you made a lot of money off selling common sense they're right and it really

is the the family behind that really did help us for sure. Cool, cool. I think, I know y'all know this, but it's important for me to say it. I hope y'all don't miss what you've done for her. She is not going to understand the angst and that what do we do? We can't believe we owe this money and we can't make it this month. Or inflation's crazy. Inflation's going to be annoying. It's not going to be catastrophic for y'all, right? Right.

And the work y'all did those two years to lay a sidewalk for this young one to grow up on is family generational, transformational. And from a mental wellness standpoint, the peace that's in their house, because, you know, you sit here and talk about contentment. There's a different air in the home. The way your child feels in the air of that house is different because you're content that's right and you hear that old saying that you just have to turn the wheel one degree and eventually that car turns all the way around y'all turned it much more than one degree but just by altering the air a little bit to where y'all aren't bickering as much or y'all aren't complaining or you're not as frustrated or you don't have to go have the new

whatever or you don't have to have another scheme just to survive. Mommy's going retail therapy. That's right. And Dad's got another plan and then another plan. Unbelievable. But you don't have to do that, and it changes the electricity in your home. And, man, what a gift you've given her. Thank you all. On behalf of parents everywhere, thank you.

Thank you. Absolutely fabulous. We've got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That's the next chapter in your story for sure. How ordinary people build extraordinary wealth, how you can too, just like those wealthy people you talk to. And also a copy of Total Money Makeover for you. And we're going to give you a copy or give you a one-year subscription to Financial Peace University and every dollar as a Ramsey Plus subscription. And if you haven't been through, go ahead and go through it.

That'll help you move on towards the Baby Steps Millionaire. If you haven't been through it, give it to somebody. That's why we want to give it to you so you can pass it along. All right, Zach and Megan and Wren Dalton, Georgia, $51,000. Paid off in two years. Make it $35,000 to $128,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We're debt-free! We're debt-free! Yeah! Woo! One, we're debt free! Another family tree changed right there because they made different choices. I love them. They're heroes, man. You guys are heroes.

This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality personality is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. I'm Dave Ramsey. Wendy is in Sioux Falls, South Dakota. Hi, Wendy. How are you? I am fabulous today, Dave. Thank you so much for taking my call.

Sure. Just a straight shoot here. The point of the call is my spouse and I are not on the same page as far as getting on this plan together. I do know that the full reason is me. We've been together 20 years. I'm an alpha female. I've always led. I'm the firstborn.

I've been a single mom. All of that just puts me in the powerhouse. And my husband has been amazing to endure all of that that comes from me. But I've gotten to a point this year and something John Deloney had said the other day on the show is like, sometimes you're just in the corner, just getting pounded and pounded and pounded and just waiting for the bell to ring for the round so you can stand up and reset and i just shook with identifying with that this year you're getting pounded or you're pounding him no she's getting well we're in life i we're we're both kind of getting pounded in that way but in like the last year three kids got married we empty nesteded my mom. Oh, I get you. I get you. Okay. It's not between

you and your husband. It's just life coming at you. Okay. Oh no, we're not going to get into pounding, but we're going to have a tough conversation coming up. And I just, um, I'm actually two business days into, I'm all in on this ship. And in these two days, I have contacted an open credit card that I found that I had. I didn't think I had credit cards for over 25 years, but I had like a furniture store card that had nothing on it, but it's sitting there open. So I called and canceled that. I canceled a subscription. Today I'm having a conversation with my boss about getting more hours and changing my W-2. And I had a conversation with the bank on Friday about a car that I potentially should sell. My husband is looking at me like I am a crazy

woman. And when I get in change is happening mode, you can hear the Lego bricks build a wall right up in front of them. And I've learned over the course of time that if I just calm down and start doing the thing and prove that it's working without any demand on him or any request of him, that he eventually swings around and comes on board. I do want us to be together on this. And when I look at the numbers, I bring in 22, five, he brings in 55,000. Um, when I look at my debt, I keep looking at it, mine and his at the moment, just because the swing around of us getting together, I need to tell me how much debt your family has I don't know for sure from his perspective because I just found out that there's more credit cards in his wallet than I knew of okay how long y'all been married and uh 15 okay and what would you if you were going to guess how much debt is in his name, what would you guess?

If I think on his history, maximum probably $15,000 on carts. What is owed on your car? Medical debt. What's owed on your car? The car is $18,500. Okay. And what else? What other kind of debt is there? He has a car that's only got like 3K left on it.

So the big picture, we don't have tons, but a lot of it is secretive. And, you know, I'm all in. Here's the super thing. Losing my mom, losing a grandparent, he has some sort of retirement through work. I do not. I was self-employed for a lot of years. And then I worked in an atmosphere where I was like, oh, he has insurance. No big deal. And- Hey, Wendy. Yeah.

This is John. You know what I hear? I hear somebody who has been scratching and clawing and fighting for a long, long time. There's still a scared single mom talking to me right now. That's exactly right. I'm still talking to a single mom who does not know when the next shoe is going to drop, and this year a whole bunch of shoes have dropped at the same time. And the way we often respond to all the shoes dropping is we default to the scariest moments our bodies have had to endure. And most of us start grabbing for control. I'm just like you. I come up with a new plan and I'm going to go see this happen, come hell or high water, and I will swing and fight and scratch and claw and take everybody with me.

And some people are a little wiser and they stop and they actually take a step back and scan the landscape and say, what's coming next? Is this threat real? Is this one not? But the next move forward cannot be another control grab. It can't be another survival move. It has to be a move towards connection. So another way of saying that is the next move is a finesse move, not a blunt trauma move. It has to be a move towards connection. So another way of saying that is

the next move is a finesse move, not a blunt trauma move. Right. Okay. And a finesse move, a finesse move might be that, what if I told you 90% of you winning with this money thing five years from today is dependent upon you all being on the same page only 10 of you doing all this gyration you've been doing since friday right you got to get him on the same page it's paramount because that's where that's where the peace is going to come from that's where the quality relationship is going to come from and the data points tell us that your your probability of overall wealth building and success is so much higher when you're working together and and uh you might pull him into this almost shame him into it by you getting your act together and he doesn't but generally speaking that doesn't work um what does work is to stop and just start having conversations about the future and go hey um

the single mom that used to be so scared she couldn't eat friday that we had beans and rice rice and beans and we had ramen noodles and that was it is activated down inside of me right now because of all this crap that's happened and i'm there's part of me that's just scared and i'm just driving towards some financial peace because i've never really had any. And I need some help with this. And I know you think I'm a little crazy because I am, but I want to go through this class. And would you just go through the videos with me and watch them with me and tell me what you think?

And if you can get him to sit down and watch nine Financial Peace University videos with you. By the way, if you can get him to watch one and watch nine Financial Peace University videos with you, by the way, if you can get him to watch one, I'll probably get him to watch the rest because we're that good. Okay? But get him to watch one or two with you, and then it'll start to be his idea and your idea together. And what you're doing is you're setting a vision together for the future instead of well i got this figured out he his he's tired of me beating on him so he can just sit over there and watch while i go do it right until he wakes up that's just highly inefficient there's no finesse in that play and wendy i'm gonna one up ready

i would love for you to follow that conversation with the truth that y'all have been married for 15 years, but y'all haven't been married. Y'all have been co-managing a house for 15 years. And if you sat down and look across the table from him and say, I want the next 15 years to be different. I want us to be together. And that means I'm going to have to change. And I'm sorry for running over you for 15 years.

And I'm going to have to be. And I'm sorry for running over you for 15 years. And I'm going to have to be different. Will you practice that with me? And by the way, you're not perfect either, bub. And let him be open about some of the challenges he has. Because really this is about, man, Dave nailed it, man. This is about y'all coming together. I've found the greatest way to come together is to, I'm going to put my shield

and sword down first and that means he may kill you he's not going to but that means he can hurt you and you haven't been hurt in a long time because you haven't let nobody that close you let anybody that close right you're right okay yeah i i i really like you you're brave you're a warrior princess but um but yeah but this is this one's going to be won at the diplomacy table, not with a sword and a shield. All right. Will you do that for you? I will do that for us. There you go.

You hang on. I'm going to put you in Financial Peace University as my gift. It'll cost you a thing. Kelly's going to pick up. I'm going to sign you up for a year subscription. And the only sale you've got to make is to get his butt in front of a TV for an hour. That's always the only sale you've got to make. You can do that. My wife has gotten me to watch some things on TV that are just amazing. Like Downton Abbey. I mean, if she can do that, then you can get him to watch.PU. That was your idea, Dave.

I lost my man card right then. This is the Ramsey Shop. Hey, it's John Deloney, co-host of The Ramsey Show. Did you know over 18 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? A lot of those people listen on one of our 600-plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you, go to ramsaysolutions.com slash show.