The Ramsey Show - App - Should We Pause Investments To Pay Off Debt? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: August 9, 2023

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving and storage studios. It's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones this hour. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. He is the host of The Ken Coleman Show, number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose,

helps with your career, your work goals. And we'll talk about that as a part of the program always. Open phones here, 888-825-5225. Evan in Houston starts this hour. Hi, Evan, how are you? I am wonderful. How are you gentlemen doing today? Better than we deserve, sir.

How can we help? Awesome. Yeah, I have a quick question. So I essentially have $26,000 between credit card and student loan debt. So my question is, should I temporarily pause on my 401k contributions to pay down that debt, punch it in the face? I've gotten about $100,000 in my 401k right now after only about five years of contributing to it. A lot of that comes from, I was contributing 13% of my salary and 11% of my bonus payouts. I get some pretty big bonus payouts every now and then.

What do you make? But my wife and I make between like i said depending on my bonuses between 130 to 170 good for you okay yes sir well if you're uh wanting to we believe around here and we've proven that belief to be true that your number one wealth building tool is your income what follows that means that getting out of debt is a key to building wealth because you're not giving all your money to somebody else in the form of payments, right? And that's kind of what you woke up and realized the other day and you said, I need to get rid of this debt.

Now, how do I best do that? Now, what we have figured out is personal finance is about 80% behavior and only about 20% head knowledge. So the biggest and most important thing you can do to get out of debt is get so pissed off that nothing else matters until you get the debt cleared you got to get really mad at debt and be done with it you get the cards out have a plastic surgery party we're only using debit cards we're not going out to eat we're not going on vacation we're going to stop everything we're going to clean up this freaking mess we make too much money to have all this debt this is dumb i'm stopping this and

that's the talk in your head you follow me that's the talk that's been in my head for a little while now so in the name of that temporarily stopping your 401k contributions regardless of how much money you have in there regardless of your age temporarily stopping in the name of total focus because total focus matters when you're trying to hit a big goal in the name of total focus we're going to temporarily stop your 401k it's mathematically incorrect on the short term on the long term once you clear the debt and you stay out of debt for the rest of your life because you understand the power of focus. Now, mathematics start to work for you then. And what little you lose in match or what little you lose in compound interest or opportunity

cost on the money will come back roaring back in your future decades. And so you're going to be, you know, you're going to be retiring what we call a baby steps millionaire following the baby steps. And baby step two is we attack the debts smallest to largest, pay minimum payments on everything but the little one. Yeah, it works every time, every time, Evan. And it seems like he's got the voice in his head that he needs to have. And I would be beyond pausing the 401k. I'd be making extra money. If you have some skills that you can get in the gig economy or the freelance economy, you can make a lot of extra money in a lot of different ways in this economy right now. We still have a white hot job market. And don't ever forget, beyond the sacrifices and pausing the 401k,

bringing more income in is also a way to fast forward this process. Yeah. And it's just's but you sit down with your spouse and agree that we're going to sacrifice we're going to live like no one else so that later we can live and give like no one else because with no payments man you can build wealth for sure melanie is with us in phoenix hi melanie welcome to the ramsey show hi dave and ken it's an honor to talk to you both today. You too. What's up? So my husband and I are in baby steps four and six. I'm a nurse and he's a teacher.

And we're wondering if we should sell our house and use the money for me to go back to school to become a certified registered nurse anesthetist. And we want to move to New Mexico because it's one of the cheaper programs, and it has a really cheap cost of living there. So, yeah, we want your advice on how to go about this. How much would you make on your house? We'd probably net about $100. What's your husband do?

You said he's what? A teacher. He's a teacher. So he would go to New Mexico and teach there? Yes. To live this goal. Okay. And you can go to school there for nurse anesthetist for what kind of money?

The tuition would be about 90K plus, you know, books and fees. How old are you guys? I'm 35. He's 34. Okay. Absolutely. I would do this. i would too no brainer i absolutely would do this it's a great move because you have thought through all the all the pitfalls and traps of a decision like this and you closed every one of the doors in in just how you presented it to us.

I mean, here's the thing. I'm going to go to the most inexpensive school. I'm going to get a degree that pays where you'll just be stacking cash. I mean, we're talking about $300, $350 a year you're making, and you're going to spend $90 grand to go do that, and we've got to move to the place where the cheap school is anyway, so while we're at it, let's sell the house, use the money to pay cash for that thing, and then we can buy anything we want to buy later. Yeah, ding, ding, I'm doing this. Awesome. I think that was very good critical thinking skills on your own part.

What's your husband's? Is he excited about this too? Oh, yeah. He's, yeah, over the moon. We have family there. Actually, his family is there. Oh, yeah. He's over the moon. We have family there. Actually, his family is there. Oh, wow. It's even better.

Yeah. Are you over the moon or are you just pretty chill in the way you show it? No, I'm excited. Okay, good. All right. Yeah, I'm ready for this. Because I heard that pause when we said that. But let me tell you something.

This is a brilliant move, and you have a lot of freedom after the fact even if and again you got family there but making this move also allows you to decide to move anywhere you want to down the line and so this is i'll be honest it says on my screen should we sell our house so i can go back to school when i read that the first thing that went through my head is she's going to go get a degree in left-handed puppetry and i'm going to have to tell her not to do this and i'm so happy the call went another direction yeah i yeah yeah i'm so happy that what austin typed on the screen was just a glimmer a glimpse into how brilliant you guys are yeah yeah we just needed your seal of approval that was really you don't need my seal of approval but i'll give it i mean i if i were in your shoes i would do this i love the degree field you're going into i love the way

you're going about getting the education the least expensive way to go get the thing because i got to tell you we've been in situations many times where there's a nurse anesthetist in the room generally when babies were being delivered and things like that not one time did i ask any of them where they went to school. Not once did we go, wait a minute, wait a minute. Where's your degree from? How much did you pay for that degree? Not once did we ask this question.

All we asked was, do you know how to do an epidural? I mean, that's it. That's the whole thing, baby. Oh my gosh. Wow. Wow. Very cool. That's the whole thing, baby. Oh, my gosh. Wow. Wow. Very cool. That's neat.

Yeah. Brilliant move. Good, good, good. I like somebody who's got the education thing figured out. Education is not what matters. Knowledge is what matters. Knowledge is the currency of the marketplace. Go get knowledge.

That's what you need. This is the Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy.

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handyman and precision garage door service great company Visit neighborly.com. Good folks to find home experts available to serve you. Today's question comes from Nathan in Virginia. I have a potential job opportunity but feel guilty going for something else. I used to be a teacher but tried my hand at carpentry a few years back. I love the job and my company but every employee is vastly underpaid. Even with raises, the prospects are not great. I've been approached about another opportunity but feel guilty leaving. This small company has a family feel and taught me everything I know. Plus, I have become their only skilled painter, so I would be leaving them kind of high and dry. What should I do? Well, the first thing is to reframe the feelings that you're

feeling. You're a good guy, Nathan, because only good people ask a question like this this way. First and foremost, reframing it means, are you doing something illegal by leaving this small family company? The answer is no. Are you doing something unethical? Not if you leave the right way. So we're not having anything to feel guilty about. What you're feeling is a sense of, will they speak poorly about me when I leave because it is a small company and they do count on me and they have taught me a lot. I think you feel some loyalty with a sense of sadness. And then I think ultimately you're afraid of what they're going to say about you. And that's what's concocting these feelings. So

there's nothing to feel guilty about because you're not doing anything wrong for considering. And if you were to leave, you're not doing anything wrong. So in this situation, if there's a lid on you and you have another opportunity to grow your finances because it's a bigger company and they're offering better pay, go do it. Leave with class. Leave the way you would want someone to leave you. That would be my advice. And if you do that, there should be no guilt. Nathan, the quality of the people you work for will be revealed on how they act when you leave. So I had a young man when the Internet, there was this new thing called the Internet that started up several years ago. And I had a young man that learned um uh the coding skills and he self-taught himself one of the codes that's not used anymore but one of the

languages but it was big back then when the internet was brand new called cold fusion and um he built our first little website and i said you know dave we could sell stuff on this thing called the internet and i just laughed i thought that'll be the day and um it shows what i know but um so he did and he was actually had another job working for us but he did that and and so he was our he was our internet guy he was the only guy that nobody could spell cold fusion but him and and then he goes you know we could get a little bit better at this he said if i went to uh went to a class over in oklahoma you know it's forty five hundred dollars if i go over there i could really

make this thing make some money i can show you how to do this and i'm like well all right let's do it because it's starting to work we're starting to make a little money on it i mean this was dial up you know you remember and you know that was the internet right we need that sound effect james yeah so um anyway i sent him to sure oklahoma city spent 4500 and back then 4500 was a lot of money for us it was a we were a little b company and he had a daughter that had a four-year-old daughter had a medical condition, and it was expensive to take care of her. And he came back, and he's working on it. And two weeks later, he came in, and he goes, I got a real problem, Dave. And I'm like, what's the problem? He goes, well, you know, I was paying him, I think, $40,000 a year or something.

And he goes, this company offered me $140 140 000 to come to work for him since i know cold fusion and i went wow that's cool and he goes yeah but you just paid four thousand five hundred dollars for me to go do this and that's why i got the opportunity he goes it's not right for me to leave i said son you have a daughter as a medical condition somebody just offered you way more money than i can pay you or will pay you even if i could so here's what we're going to do i'm going to help you pack your desk i'm so excited for you and he went i mean this was a upturn in the old days when the internet was taking off and everybody suddenly a code guy a person that could do code was very valuable and and uh so it's like i i mean i love that guy i want his little kid to be taken care of and he

could make a hundred thousand dollars more than i could pay him or was paying him yes he should take that job and so that's how those people should act when you come in and quit yeah it's exactly right not oh you're my only guy and and I just spent $4,000 on you, and oh, no, no. You can't do that. That's just called low class, I mean. And by the way, while they will be probably disappointed, and it will be inconvenient, you are replaceable.

I have found that to be true about everybody. And so they'll find another. It's really sad how quickly we're all replaceable it's so true isn't it yeah i mean they're gone 10 minutes you're going i forgot they were here right yeah all of us they'll survive and they took they take me off a radio station some city and 10 10 minutes later nobody remembers it you know i was like i guess i wasn't memorable no it's just the way people go on they go on with their own lives hello it's the way it works jacklyn's with us in orlando hi jacklyn welcome to the ramsey show hi thank you for taking my call sure what's up um so i'm currently working full-time with my husband and i'm looking to go part-time for personal reasons. I have two little ones, and they are in different therapies, medical reasoning. So I want to be able to be a more active mom and take them to their therapy sessions.

But we've been in a lot of debt, and we've been working the baby steps getting out, and we still have $90,000 to go and my entire paycheck goes to those steps and I'm just kind of confused and scared that I will go back to where we were before if I do go part-time. Have the kiddos been going to therapy prior to this phone call? Like they're going now or is this going to be a new rhythm? My daughter's been going, but my son is going to be starting up. Who's been taking your daughter? I have been. So your employer allows you that flexibility?

They did, but now that's going to change. Why is it changing? New management. My old boss is no longer my boss. Okay. What kind of therapy are they doing, hon? Multiple, physical for my son, physical for my daughter, speech and occupational for her as well.

Okay. All right. What does your husband make? His take-home right now is 60. And what's yours? His take-home right now is $60. And what's yours? My take-home is $40. And what will you be making when you go part-time? $20.

And what do you do? Customer service. What else could you do that would make more part-time working from home? I've looked at working from home part-time there isn't much out there but i have oh there's a lot out there yeah um the world is full of it right since the holidays are coming just to get a job at like a store no no no listen i i you got to take care of your babies and you're doing the right thing but you don't have to accept half the pay because you're not doing something that is like something i trained for my whole life and now i'm going to walk away from it or something like that um you you're you're doing a job that is you can definitely pick up some all kinds of hours and do

things from home and work around the therapy schedules and work around the time with the kids that's right yeah so i i don't think you have to i think you guys can make it on 80 okay and you and you'll eventually wander your way out of debt and if it slows down you're getting out of debt because you got to take care of babies, then you got to take care of babies. That's just the way life is. But you don't have to go all the way to the, you don't have to just keep the same job at half. I would look for something where I can make 30 just for the fun of it.

Just let's upgrade this. You might make 40 part-time by messing around with it. Well, this is a season, so Jacqueline, I'd be looking at changing your hours. Customer service reps are very valuable. If you can work evenings, even from home, and you're still there. When the kids are in bed. Yeah, and you and your husband need to sit down and figure out schedules so that you have the daytime to take the kiddos to the appointments, but you can work at nighttime. This is for a season. This is gazelle to get out of that 90,000.

Then we can reset. It's not forever. It's just what are we going to do right now while the kids are in therapy and we're trying to clear this debt? Because working at this other job is not going to work out. The current thing is not going to work. I agree with you that you've got to change it. This is the Ramsey Show.

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what's going on over here at ramsey because there's a lot of positive things happen a lot of people getting out of debt changing their lives getting their career straightened out getting their mental health lined up it's pretty amazing and we are uh seeing a pretty sizable increase in the number of you that are there in the particular different on the different on the different platforms and thank you for that thanks for sharing and thanks for telling people about it uh for instance this last week we became number 12 out of all apple podcasts there's like four and a half million of them ramsey shows number 12 and that matters here's why it matters the little the little 12 out of all Apple podcasts. There's like four and a half million of them. Ramsey shows number 12.

And that matters. Here's why it matters. The little, the little tiles, they're in rows of six. So that means we're on that second row right there. I mean, number 13, you don't get anywhere near the visibility 14,

but we're way up there at the top. And that's because you guys keep telling people about us. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for that. We appreciate that. Samantha is with us in Long Beach. Hi, Samantha.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi there. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I recently closed on condo my first home purchase in January. And just this last month, the HOA board voted to approve a special assessment. They're saying it's an emergency special assessment to the tune of $33,000 per unit.

Good Lord. I know. I know. And they want it paid over six months, payments of $5,500 starting on September 1st. So I have my emergency fund of about $10,000. I've been working to get it up to $15,000 for my three to six months. So I'm going to have to use that. My parents are going to be able to help me. What is the assessment for? So they're saying it's for to remove and replace decayed wood surfaces, perform stucco repair. So the exterior of the condos looks like crap.

Correct, yeah, and they're saying there's water damage. You saw that when you drove up to buy the condo. Correct, yes, and I reviewed the reserve study and certainly saw that it has zero years' life left, so I was expecting some kind of assessment, but nowhere in the reserve assessment does it say anything near this amount. So they're basically saying the reserve study is wrong. Construction costs are way up.

Labor costs are way up. But this amount really, there's 46 units units they're saying it's 1.5 million to do all the work um so the amount itself i was expecting maybe 20 like i could so you anticipated something but you're just not this much okay yeah all right so now what's your question my question is should i i should i guess should I plan when I build back up my emergency fund, should I plan to have a little extra because there's also the roof that's going to need to get done and they just don't collect enough. They don't accrue enough fees, really, HOA fees to adequately fund the deterioration cost each year.

So I'm wondering if I should pad my emergency fund more because of this. No, what do you make? I make about $155 after my bonus each year. No. I'll tell you what I would do, though. I'd get involved in the HOA board enough that you get some people fired and some different people serving that actually, and change the fee structure. Because like you you said they're not collecting enough to do their sinking funds for their deteriorating asset and that should be part of a standard HOA fee right and they're saying that they want to keep the HOA fees low because that's just artificial value it's artificial yeah if you're not collecting enough to replace the

parking lot you're not collecting enough to replace the roof based on the life it has left that's called a sinking fund then the HOA fee being low is artificial because you're going to make it up with lump sum special assessments there's all you're going to live from emergency to emergency this horrible management yeah i agree yeah so yeah they need to be fired you probably ought to get a professional condo association management company to oversee the board they they do have one oh they suck the one yeah yeah they do okay all right so yeah they need to get fired and you need to get some new people on the board because you got it you need to establish the fee structure that takes care of the property individual homeowners have to do the same thing i own a

house if the if i know i've got a roof coming up in five years, I need to be setting money aside for a roof in five years. It doesn't need to, like, surprise! The roof suddenly deteriorates. No, it doesn't. It doesn't suddenly deteriorate. It deteriorates over a decade. That's why they need to be fired.

They didn't plan well for this. Well, they didn't plan at all. This is ridiculous. Horrible, horrible. I do have a question, because you're in real estate. plan well for this well they didn't plan at all this is ridiculous yeah horrible horrible and i do have a question i don't because you're in real estate can they are they the supreme authority the association says this is what you have to do is there any no fight back on that yeah most condo associations and for that matter regular hoas have the ability to do special assessments to cover okay to cover uh you know dilapidated mess that they hadn't kept up the maintenance on.

Yikes. But that's the problem with living in a situation like that. Yet one more reason why I freaking hate HOAs. Have I ever mentioned that before? I hate them. Complete pain in the butt. All right. Raymond is with us in Chicago.

Hi, Raymond. How are you? I'm great, Dave. I'm really happy to be here with you guys. Thank you, Raymond. How are you? I'm great, Dave. I'm really happy to be here with you guys. Thank you so much. How can we help? Well, I'm helping someone. I'm trying to find out something about a 401k loan.

I know they are like should not ever be done. And unfortunately, when I went looking for information with you all, I found all sorts of reasons why you shouldn't do it. But what about us dummies who make the mistake and do that? And when you do the debt snowball, I know you're supposed to list things from smallest to largest. I've been trying to help as many people as I can because it's worked for us. But what I'm trying to find out is the 401K that seems to have tax ramifications and more risk, even if it's not an IRS problem. There's no tax ramifications whatsoever paying off a 401K loan. Oh, but isn't there a risk if they lose their job that they have to...

There's tax ramifications and there's IRS problems and fees if you have a loan outstanding, but paying it off doesn't cause tax ramifications. No, no, no, that's what I meant. I'm sorry. Oh, yeah, yeah. There's a lot of reasons to pay it off. When you leave your company because you died, because you got a better job, or because you got fired, you will leave your company.

When you leave your company, your loan is called due in full, and you have to repay it all in 60 days, or it's considered an early withdrawal with 10% penalty in your tax rate on it. So, yeah, that's one of the reasons it sucks. My question is, should it be paid off earlier, or at least be partially paid off earlier? No, you can't partially pay them off. You can only pay them monthly or all at once.

So even when you get to it and the debt snowball, you can't incrementally add. You have to pile up cash and savings and then knock it out in one hit. Huh, because that's interesting because the workplace says that they can keep paying it off and they they actually have been uh paid off you can pay it off you have your regular monthly payment but you can't double your monthly payments huh i'm not i've not ever seen one that allows you to pay extra on it. You can pay it all at once, but I've never seen one that allows you to pay extra on it. So, folks, what Raymond's pointing out is never borrow on your 401k loan.

If you do have one, put it in the debt snowball where it goes, and when you get to it, you're probably, unless Raymond found an unusual thing he might have. I don't know. But most of the time, you can say, and I think almost all the time, you're going to find a 401k once you pay it off in a lump sum. So you got $10,000. You're not going to pay $1,000 a month. You're going to pile up $1,000 a month for 10 months. And you're going to write one check, do away with the 401k loan. But, yeah, you need to get rid of it.

Wherever it falls in the debt snowball. And dumb loans, really dumb loans. They're all dumb loans, but that one's a dumb loan. Yeah, you need to get rid of it wherever it falls in the debt snowball. And dumb, dumb loans, really dumb loans. They're all dumb loans, but that one's a dumb loan. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Susan's in Mountain Home, Arkansas. Hi, Susan. How are you? I'm well, yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm calling to find, well, thank you for what you're doing, for sharing some time with me, first off. Our pleasure. But I wanted to know, thank you, should i pay off my truck yes um i guess without anything

else well i'd say it's um my husband passed um last june i'm sorry what happened thank you um well i'll tell you he was sick for a while and then they put him uh in a nursing home for rehab, and he got COVID. Oh, no. And I got it from him. I made it, but he didn't. So that's pretty much that. How long were you all married, hon? 32 years.

We've been best friends since 1977. Wow. Man. How old are you? One time. I'll be 65 next month, the first day of next month. I'm so sorry. Sorry you're going through this.

What do you owe on your truck? $28,000. We were lucky to get a truck. It was very strange auto shopping last year. Yeah. You know, used cars cost what a new car maybe does now. I don't know. Well, ours didn't.

They were biting the dust. So you have any money? Well, yeah. I was a caregiver for my mother also, and she left me her home, and I left that was in Phoenix, and I didn't want to be there anymore, and I didn't have any family there, so I moved to Arkansas, sold that home, moved here and paid cash for my home. I have $29,000 in checking, $11,000 in savings, and $40,000, it's through Edward Jones and Money Market and CDs.

And my income is my husband's Social Security because I had quit working you know to care give for them and it's about 28 7 a year if you don't have the car payment can you live on the Social Security probably better than if I didn't have the car that's why I say if you didn't have the car payment. That's what I say. If you didn't have the car payment, can you make the budget work on the Social Security? Yeah, I'm going to have to for at least for a while. I want to go to work, but I had to put things off for myself, you know, to take care of them. And I've gotten to have hand surgery on each hand. But after that, I'm hoping to get back out in the workplace.

If somebody had me, I've been out of it for a while. I guarantee you somebody will have you. Yes, they will. Yes, they will. Guarantee you they will. You're a jewel. Okay, so what I want to do is I want to take the money that you have between Edward Jones checking and savings, and I want to set it aside.

Your checking doesn't need that much money in it okay we want to set the money over let's have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses so you need an emergency fund equal to about what your savings is about eleven about eleven or twelve thousand dollars that will cover you for three to six months right yes okay i wouldn't mind if it's 15 000 okay but somewhere around there and uh that leaves you the edward jones and the checking and you got a 28 000 loan and a 29 000 in checking so i just ride check pay off the truck today really i would that panics me but i trust you well you either need to do that or you need to sell the truck because this $28,000 loan is destabilizing your finances. Right, right.

Yeah, I was looking at that last night, and I just thought, oh, my goodness. And the truck, you know, well, you overpay for anything you buy anymore. But this is a 10-42-year loan. If you don't want it and you want to sell it and move down that's okay too well i don't think i could i couldn't get out of it what i owe for sure i mean you might have to write a little bit of a check but i mean you could end up with a ten thousand dollar less vehicle down in the fifteen thousand range and uh you know it's possible you could move down if you want a little less. It's a lot of truck.

It's a pretty expensive vehicle for your situation. But if you're going to keep it, you need to pay it off today. Okay, yeah, you're right. Bad gas mileage and everything. Well, you keep talking about how it's, know if i were in your shoes i'd probably look start looking and do a little planning and sell it and get something that you actually want that has good gas mileage and is reliable in the 15 10 15 000 range in your situation i think that's going to be a lot better vehicle i think you all overbought on vehicle there's a

lot of emotion at the time you bought for everybody and i think you paid too much so i probably would move down but if you're going to keep it you need to pay it off today and um so it won't hurt to pay it off today and then sell it too that's okay too and trade trade down and you know get you in a 10 12 000 vehicle something reliable the gas mileage is good that you're comfortable with in your situation as a 66-year-old lady that's by yourself right now. So you've been through a tough time. I'm sorry, kiddo.

We're here to help you, though. If you need anything, you call us anytime. We'll help you any way we can. It's what we do here. So, wow, that's tough. Yeah, and I agree with you on just downs downsizing she doesn't need a truck for any reason if it were my mom i'm sitting here thinking let's get her a nice sedan get her a nice toyota honda some kind of reliable sedan that's got low miles very good gas mileage and as she begins to re-enter

life that's all she needs a dependable nice little sedan that gets her from point a to point b yeah and you can get a lot of car for 12 14 000 bucks yeah for half of what she's got this that's right yeah exactly something to think about there something to think about but either way uh that truck payment's gonna be gone either way open phones at 888-825-5225. Leah's in Charlottesville, Virginia. Hi, Leah. How are you? Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? So I have been wanting to ask you this question for, like, weeks. I got an ERC payment. I'm a business owner, and I got PPP, and, like, I did my business the way I was supposed to. And then, well, not really the way I was supposed to, but I did it. And then COVID happened. And then I got all this money and I survived. And now I have this, I had this big lump sum of money that I don't have employees anymore.

So I paid off like $20,000 worth of debt. And I have like probably $40 thousand dollars worth of debt and i have like probably forty thousand dollars worth of debt left but i have twenty five thousand dollars in cash and i'm worried that you meet the guidelines of the ppp and the erc to not have to give it back i did i did okay then it's your money i did it. It's clear. So if I use this $25,000 to pay the rest of my debt, then I'm not necessarily debt-free, but the only thing that would happen is my car. I have a house, and I do a lot of things.

I moved back home to my mom's house, and my house is now a rental. If you met the guidelines that they put on that program then the money's clear if you didn't meet the guidelines they're going to ask for it back right i have an accountant who's great and i i'm just worried that i'm going to they're going to be like hey and i pay my student loans so i have nothing i have no no that i just have like um a couple credit cards and like you're afraid they're going to say hey what you owe this money if you met the guidelines they're not going to say that if you trust if your accountant has walked you through the points that you have to meet on there there's about six different offerings and i don't know which one you got

but um it was all screwed up and we were yelling at people not to take that money, but you took it, and if you met the guidelines, I'm not mad at you for it. Just make sure you met the guidelines, and that way this thing that's spooking you in the back of your mind, it sounds like you think you haven't met them, and so you need to be very sure that you have and very sure they're not going to ask for the money back, and if not, they're not. They're not going to just change it now um you know there was a lot of electricity in the air back in those days uh to say the least but um yeah it's we've not we've

not seen any of our customers any of the people we're dealing with where they've gotten into trouble and um the government has gone in and changed the rules after the fact on that particular program so again go over it again with your accountant and make sure and then you're clear this is the ramsey show Hey, it's Ken. If you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money journey, we have a weekly newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey way. Go to ramsaysolutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter. Again, that's ramsaysolutions.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter.