The Ramsey Show - App - Should We Pay Off Our House Right Now? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

Dr. John Delony & Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss:  "I feel like I'm not actually living financially well" "Should I use mutual funds to pay off my house?" "How can we take a nice vacation on a budget?" "Should I move into a van to save money?" "Sell my car to pay off debt?" "Paying off debt with medical issues" Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Join a Personality-led FPU class. Click here! Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3cEP4n6 Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Interested in advertising on The Ramsey Show? https://ter.li/s64ye3 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Девочка-пай Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where we have a conversation about your money, your life, and actual amazing relationships. I'm John Deloney, joined by my good friend Rachel Cruz, and we're taking your calls on everything. Whatever you got going on in your life, I'm confident we have an opinion on it.

If you have an actual amazing relationship, John is the one to... If your relationship is not amazing, call in. Give us a call. 888-825-5225. Let's go out to Nick in Portland. What's up, Nick? Hi. Thank you for having me on today. My question to get to the point is, back in 2011, I was being paralyzed by debt. So in desperation, found Dave Ramsey's method and systematically over the past 12 years have turned it completely around. So my question is now that my wife and I have done that, we have two small children. We're kind of very, very frugal with our money. We save about 90%, give or take,

a month of what we earn. And now we have a different problem is learning to live a little bit. So that was my main question. You're still living out of a trauma response, brother. Yeah, I think it's, you know, just fear. Obviously, there's a lot of guilt, success guilt, and I know this is, I was a success story with this, and so now we're in this different stage of the recovery, and it's great, and it's a good problem to have. But other people experience this and it's kind of this unknown for me is how to give a little. Yeah. We could probably get sidetracked here,

so I'll keep my question pretty direct. Did you have a pretty chaotic childhood? Um, no, I think, um, we had, uh, you know, my, my parents were in debt, uh, a lot. We had a, you know, motorcycles. We did, my dad kept us active all the time. And so, you know, we, it was just kind of, we certainly didn't live within our means. And so that obviously was learned by me. And then, you know, then I got into medical school and I got tremendous amount of debt. And it was really every day I was waking up with mounting debt and the interest climbing. And so it was in 2011, I just had that massive realization that, you know,

I need to change something. I need to have goals. Are you a physician, Nick? Yeah. All right. So my academic research, my nerd work was, simply put, I studied people who other people in the community go to for help and care. I studied the mental health of attorneys and medical personnel and pastors,

folks that other people go to. And what I would tell you is, yeah, you had a big debt issue, but my guess is you have a broader issue because what, and you know this pathologically speaking, and I want to not get too nerdy for our audience here, but if you've got a body responding to trauma, if you've got a body that is living in an anxious ecosystem, the moment you knock off anxiety one, your brain just moves on to anxiety two, into three. So your body was telling you, probably we owe a lot of money. We haven't slept in a long time. I'm suddenly being in charge of keeping people alive or well, I'm trying to navigate a family. I'm trying to navigate a crazy political ecosystem, all those things happening all at the same time. And so the alarm system that spins up your body,

it's almost like throwing darts and it says, it's the money. And so the alarm system that spins up your body, it's almost like throwing darts and it says, it's the money. And then you live like a maniac because you're Nick and you can, and you'll pay this thing off. And without addressing that core anxiety, almost, almost OCPD, you get underneath all that. And then your body just moves on to the next one so now the problem is you've left your community behind you've become one of them nick and then you don't know how to have joy in your life and then once you start having fun it's just going to move on to the next until you deal with that uh that lower level identity shift which is we weren't safe we are now and that is a different conversation than can you give us a three-step plan to go have more fun do you see what i'm saying this is about creating a non-anxious home for nick and his wife and his kids and that will make you better you're you're on point there

uh everything you said just it's it's very true so what i've seen professionally and um just walking alongside people is the further up river you can get to create here's the fun exercise you and your wife go out for a half day retreat and y'all get to do something that probably never happened in either of your homes which is y'all get to plan and dream about the future y'all get to do something that probably never happened in either of your homes, which is y'all get to plan and dream about the future. Y'all crossed this finish line. You survived. You paid off all your debt. You got everything right-sized in your home.

And now y'all are playing pickleball for the first time. You've never played this game. You don't know the rules. And so y'all have to practice. Y'all got to figure this thing out. And so what kind of home, what do we want it to feel like when you walk home, honey? Here's what I want to feel like when I walk in the front door. How can we create this home that is warm or that is funny or that is joyful? And we're going to reverse engineer that and begin

to come up with this home, this non-anxious life. She might look at you like my wife did me and say, I want you to stop working so much. Or I want you to love us as least as much as your clients or patients or the folks that you are coaching. And that was hard for me. And I asked her, like, here's what I need and here's what I want. And we address that stuff. And dude, I'm telling you, the anxiety alarms, they melted along the way. And having joy and having fun and creating a date night and

making, okay, we're going to have to spend X amount of dollars because 90% is mathematically insane. So let's back it down to 70. And we are going to practice spending this 20%. We're going to go on a date and we're going to buy a real nice meal and we're going to feel uncomfortable about it. And we're both going to call it out with a smile on our face. I feel uncomfortable. I feel uncomfortable. I feel guilty. I feel guilty. And maybe we tip the waitress a hundred bucks on a hundred dollar meal just because we can, but we're going to begin to feel that and own it and metabolize it so that we can transition to this new identity, which is a couple that's not running for our

lives and a couple that's not anxious all the time, but we are a couple who is living peacefully into the future. How does that sound? Man, that is awesome. It's my dream. So, well, I really appreciate your time. Thanks for calling, Nick. Yeah, I mean, here's the magic words.

Go out on a retreat and create a new identity for Nick's home. Who are we, honey? Who do we want to be? Who do we get to be now? The second thing is I want you to be highly intentional about setting a certain amount of money a month to give away. And I want you to see that gift. I want you to see the eyes light up when you give that money away.

Don't just write checks and send them via email. And the third thing is I want you to set aside some money that y'all are going to practice spending on yourselves and hang on the line. I want to get your address. I've got a new book coming out in October called Building a Non-Anxious Life. And I'm going to send you the first copy that I get. I'm going to mail it to you as my gift when it comes in. Dude, you got exciting things ahead of you, man. I'm proud of mail it to you as my gift when it comes in. Dude, you got exciting things ahead of you, man. I'm proud of the work you're doing to change your family tree, my brother. We'll be right back. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor

are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they

experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org. How'd it go? And it was great. We had a great class. It was really fun walking through the nine lessons with a few hundred people. And it was exciting to see people's progress already. It's amazing. Within just even a few short weeks, people on the plan and doing it. It's great. We just finished week seven of the class I'm leading.

And somebody just did a debt-free scream. And it was super fun. That's great. So listen, all of you who listen to this show all the time um you can you can get the the bits and pieces and nuts and bolts on this show for free and you can work it out on your own you can absolutely do that but what we've learned over time is that doing this together with a group, having some accountability, people to walk alongside you, people to call or text and ask questions, having a guide that leads you through this thing,

Yoda style, it adds so much value. And more importantly, you're more likely to stick with it. And there's something about being around a group of people that you know are going to ask you, how's your budget? How's things going? How's this? How's that? So listen, a proven way to change your behavior with money is taking a financial peace university class. It's the difference of like, you've tried to get in shape your whole life. And for many of you, that's hard. Me too. It's much easier when I pay somebody to that is going to hold me accountable. And I go get a trainer and we figure this thing out together. Listen, this class has worked for millions. It's nine weeks, and you're never going to handle money the same way again.

So listen, don't just listen to this show. Join an FPU class at ramsaysolutions.com slash FPU. It's ramsaysolutions.com slash FPU. All right, let's go out to Joseph in Orlando. What's up, Joseph? Not a whole lot. How are you guys doing today? Good, good, good. What's up? Well, just

I'll try to keep the question as brief as I can. I was instructed to do so. So if I if, let's say hypothetically I saved the amount in mutual funds to pay off my home. Could I, I mean, would you recommend that I draw out everything I have in my mutual

funds to pay off my home if I save up that amount? Yes. Non-retirement mutual funds. Correct. Not like, yeah, no 401ks, Roth IRAs, nothing like that. But if it's just in standard growth type mutual funds then yes i would i would concentrate putting as much cash as i could to get that home paid off because um because what we find joseph is not only mathematically does that just free up

a mortgage and you can throw that much more back into the market and you'll build it back up really quickly but you have paid for real estates there's's no risk in your life. And John, you talk about this a lot, but when you don't have debt, even a mortgage, it's like there's no risk. There's nobody that I owe. It's like this true autonomy that you're living this life that is all yours, that you have no payments. So there's something powerful in that. So if I had the amount of money to pay off my house in non-retirement, I would. I would do it today. What's your hang up, man? Well, I don't have it saved up. I was just kind of planning for the future. I can give a little bit of my background if you'd like. Sure. So my wife and I, we make a combined $200,000 a year. We don't have any debts except the mortgage. We have right now about $330,000 left in the mortgage.

We put 15% towards retirement. And that actually leads to another question. So the 15%, we divide that up between Roth IRAs, 401k. We have the match for that. And then the mutual funds. Now, does the 15% need to go just towards the Roth IRAs and the 401k, or is the mutual funds included in that? No, just retirements, yeah. Because all of those Roth IRAs and even your 401k, all those retirement vehicles, you get so many tax benefits from that. So focusing your money on that, that 15%,

and anything above that once the house is paid off can just go, yeah, once the house is paid off, can just go, yeah, into the market in mutual funds. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. Did you all have any follow-up questions for me? Anything I need to clarify at all? No, that's it. The thing I think is important to reiterate is I know folks who bought a house in 2021 and they have a 2.25% APR. I know people who have a 5 or a 4 or whatever, and they're trying to hedge this and move this around. I can't describe to you the feeling you get when your boss tells you to do something and you think to yourself, I don't have to do that.

Or when an air conditioner breaks and the biggest fight in your house is who has to make that phone call, not what bill you're not going to pay. And it's hard to express it until you've experienced it, but not having a house payment and having a home, suddenly it turns the news into a cartoon, not a death sentence. It becomes so silly. You quit watching it. It just changes everything in your life. So yeah, dude, pay that house off regardless of your interest rate. Get that sucker paid off, man. All right. Our question of the day is brought to you by Neighborly, your hub for home services. Don't wait till the AC or something else goes out. Neighborly helps you find local providers like AirServe or Mr. Appliance or DryerVent Wizard and Mr. Handyman. Go to Neighborly.com today.

Today's question comes from Jennifer in North Carolina. We'd love to hear your tips on a budget Disney trip. Is it even possible? We went last year for my daughter's fifth birthday and went all out. We stayed on Disney property, went to several character restaurants and did all the things and roughly it cost us roughly twelve thousand dollars i want to take our other daughter for her fifth birthday in october and need to figure out what how to do it cheaper i think you and i are gonna have very different answers on this to disney i'm like let me just say this and then rachel you answer answer. When Hank was four, my wife was teaching at a school in Sao Paulo, Brazil,

right outside of Sao Paulo. So we went, we tagged along. Hank and I had this magic trip. We picked avocados and mangoes off of trees. Toucans were flying around. We rode a donkey into the jungle. It was amazing. It's like Disney.

He remembers none of it. Yes. It is not a core He remembers none of it. Yes. It is not a core memory. I'm sure like romance, I mean, not romance, but like I'm sure like good time with dad. I'm sure that's in there somewhere.

Not the trip. None of it. Totally. None of it. Totally. So my fifth grade birthday would be like water balloons. Fifth, no, five-year-old.

I mean, five-year-old. They'll tell that story at your funeral. Not the one where mom spent $12,000 was a hyper maniac that's just me i know that rachel you're a disney person and i'm not i do like disney and if you have the money to do it that's what you're choosing to go on vacation knowing that they're not going to remember it but you still go because it's fun and there's still magic at that age then do it right like that sure why not if you have the money pay me i'll come to your house for 300 dressed like goofy

and like i don't know so anyways is there a cheaper way to do it yes you guys went all out don't stay on disney property get an airbnb off property uh don't eat the food bring your own snacks well i mean there's a way to like cut it but disney is expensive even just the passes like you can't get around some of the costs like it is what it is so i love how you just said this rachel just don't stay there don't eat there don't smile there don't go to the bathroom there and you'll have a great time the disney prop well there's tears of the disney property so you can do definitely there's the haves and have nots. Well, there's different ways to do it. So again, Jennifer, I don't know your situation. If you guys, I don't know, you got $2 million in a Vanguard account.

You're like, what do we do? Go spend 12 grand and you're fine. The greatest parenting advice I ever heard in my life was from Jack Black, the musician comedian. Here's what he said. And it has changed my parenting. All the graduate classes I ever took, it's Jack Black. And musician comedian. Here's what he said. And it has changed my parenting. All the graduate classes I ever took, it's Jack Black.

And here's the advice. Don't ever try to make a happy kid happier. Because you're going to see your kid sitting outside in some mud with a stick and you're going to think, not my kid. And then three hours later, you're going to have a kid that's over-screened,

full of sugar, full of sugar, full of plastic, broken toys and Legos in their hair and in their ears and all over whatever. And the kid was loving life in a puddle of mud with a stick. Yeah. I mean, this is not about buying their happiness.

That's exactly what this is. You can go on a Disney vacation and have a level of sanity about yourself. Agree to disagree. Agree to disagree. Pay cash. Just pay cash. That's my only thing. And don't expect things or trips or all of that to change who your kid is or try to buy their love.

That's a whole different conversation. Get her a trampoline. It'll be the greatest birthday ever. I don't want to put that on Jennifer. I am. Judger. Judging. Hey, this is The Ramsey Show. It'll be the greatest birthday ever. I don't want to put that on Jennifer. I am. Judger. Judging. Hey, this is The Ramsey Show.

We'll be right back. Hey, welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Hey, listen, let's clear something up real quick. If you listen to this show for like 10 seconds, you know that we hate debt, and some people just don't get that. They think you need debt and credit cards. Rachel, this gives me the hemorrhoids.

They think that they have to have credit cards so that they can do everything else in life, right? Like buy a car, buy a house. None of that is true. You think you need a good credit score to buy a house? That is false. Listen, if I gave you a million dollars in cash right now, that would not a good credit score to buy a house? That is false. Listen, if I gave you a million dollars in cash right now, that would not change your credit score because credit score is nothing to do with how wealthy you are. It has to do with your love relationship, your ooey gooey

relationship with debt. That's what a credit score is. The truth is, if you're living a debt-free lifestyle, eventually you're not going to have a credit score because you don't deal with debt. That's what a credit score is. The truth is, if you're living a debt-free lifestyle, eventually you're not going to have a credit score because you don't deal with debt. So when you're ready to buy a house, you got to find a good lender like Churchill Mortgage who can do what's called a manual underwriting. George Campbell talks about all, he got one, no credit score, got a house. So when someone says you got to have a credit card, you don't, it's not true. And this sounds nuts, but the best plan for your future is to avoid debt, save a big down payment, and get a real estate agent who will help you find a house you can actually afford. We recommend agents who are Ramsey trusted, meaning

they're top performers. They're gangsters with years of experience helping people do home buying the right way. This is not impossible. And I know if you're sitting there, you're a teacher, you're a policeman, you're looking at how much money you're not making. This feels impossible. It's not, but we want your house to be a blessing, not a nightmare. You can find a real estate agent who will help you do all of these things, help you walk through the process with no credit score, buy the right house for you with Ramsey Solutions, like a trusted stamp on their soul. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash agent. That's ramseysolutions.com slash agent. All right, let's go out to Sonia in Indianapolis. What's up, Sonia? How are we doing?

I'm doing great. How are y'all? I mean, I can't think of a situation where we would be doing better. That's awesome. How are you? Doing great. And I have a question. I want to say thank you to the Ramsey team. You are changing lives of both myself and my son. Um, currently we are in the early stages of baby step two. My question revolves around purchasing a van to go live down by the river. Wait a minute, for real? Sounds like we got Bill Shakespeare on the line.

I know. Where does this idea come from? Right after the pandemic started, I did purchase a van and I did a build out on it, did a lot of traveling while working a desk job. And it was wonderful. And I would like to do that again and purchase another vehicle. But I felt the virtual slap from Dave when I decided that that would be step three versus making a down payment on a house. So I need to have some advice from you on where in 456 you would place this purchase

and what type of margin I should be putting against it versus investing. Okay, so I just want to clarify, though, that you will have a primary residence. This is just... No, this is the residence. This is the residence? Yeah, that was the virtual slap that I got from Dave. I did want to purchase a van before purchasing sticks and bricks. But after doing some research,

I do see the value of making a home purchase. So that is now in the financial plan and goal set. So you'll do that first, and then you're asking about the van? And then I'm asking about the van. Oh, okay. What does the van get you? Like, does it get you freedom? Does it get you flexibility?

What does that, or do you just like camping a lot? Well, the van, I work remote. So the van will bring me the opportunity to travel and see the country. I do have friends and family scattered all over the united states that i did frequent it also is an opportunity for me to explore other cities eventually i would like to relocate out of my geographical area okay and i'd like the research behind that so So it's a recreation toy, basically. Yeah. Okay, yeah, that's great.

Do you have family, Sonia? Are you married, kids? No, I'm single. I have four children. They're all adults. Okay, okay, that's great. So Rachel, stop me if I'm wrong here. Sonia, if you said for 36 months, for three years,

I'm going to go see the country and I'm going to live this way and I'm going to do all this with cash. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem with it. Awesome. And you said, I want to move to a new town. I want to explore some cities that I might want to relocate in and live permanently like that. I mean, Rachel, tell me I'm wrong. That doesn't, I don't think you have to have a house and then go do that. What we don't want you to do is to look up and be 55 years old or 60 years old, and you've got no equity. You've got no place, like no pun intended, to park and say, this is my home. All you have is a completely depreciated out van with 500,000 miles on it. That's what we want to avoid.

Yeah. So how old are you, Sonia? I'm 50 and I had that wake up call. I turned 50 last September, woke up and decided I don't want to have to work into retirement and I don't have the financial footing to avoid that right now. And where are you at in the baby steps, did you say? What was that? Where are you at in the baby steps? Are you baby step two still paying off debt? I'm paying off debt. My debt-free date will be essentially Christmas this year.

Oh, good. Congratulations. All right. That's awesome. Okay. So, yeah. So, I think my goals would be, and where are you living now? I'm currently in the upper Midwest.

I mean, like, are you in a home? I'm renting. You're renting. Okay, perfect. No, you're great. You're great. Okay, perfect. No, you're great. You're great. Okay, yeah, so, Sonia, I think mine would be, yeah, get to Christmas, pay off that debt, look to get that emergency fund and baby step three, and then I would look to purchase,

yes, some type of real estate. I think that will be really wise and to have that to your name, to John's point. And again, it can be a townhome. It could be a condo. It doesn't have to be anything big and fancy, but that there's something, a place to go to that you have. And then I would be focused on retirement then after that, because I want you to be able to retire, right?

And actually have money to live off of. So starting that process. And then once that's going um and again you're you're 50 years old so you know there can be some catch-up retirement that you can do when it gets to that point but again run those numbers i want that to be a priority for you um and then at the same time you can be saving simultaneously then for a purchase of a van you know and in the meantime Sonia I mean you know while you're not while you're getting out of debt not emergency fund but beyond that I would be okay

while you're saving up for a down payment to rent something for two weeks if you want you know what I mean like you can still enjoy your life after baby step three but I would focus on though saving up a down payment because by that time frame you're going to be two years probably from now and I want you to be able to know kind of like you're saying where you want to be where you want to settle and and start looking for a home total sense does that give you peace or does that give you angst? A little of both, to be honest. After realizing where I was, and I'm just going to quote it as drinking the Kool-Aid of Dave Ramsey, I got really scared and got very serious.

I took on a second job. Good for you. I'm working about 80 hours a week. How much do you make a year, Sonia? My core job is $75,000 and my side hustle hustle is about 35,000. Wow. Good for you. Yeah. Good for you. So can I tell you something hard to hear? Yeah. And this is like the worst part of my job is like the bearer of reality. Okay. My guess is looking back, you've been through the mill, huh? You've been through it. Um, I've been married and divorced three times. Every type of life

situation has hit. So you've been through it and you've reached a point where you have some sort of equilibrium. And for the first time, possibly ever, you've got peace. And I'm going to tell you, I would wait 24 months, maybe even 36 months before I started doing a ton of traveling. I would love to see you just buckle down until you're 53 years old and make a hundred thousand dollars on top of a hundred thousand dollars on top of a hundred and fifteen thousand dollars and get some financial margin in your life before you hit the road and visit friends and travel you've been through hell and back and you've got to give yourself a cushion a cushion foundation under you never had yeah so i would hold off on traveling i would start sucking away money and then you're going to be able to have a freer 55 and 60. Today's scripture of the day is Philippians 1 6. For I am confident of this very thing,

that he who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus. Tupac Shakur says, happy are those who dream dreams and are ready to pay the price to make them come true. Yes. I love it. Rachel is a huge Tupac fan. I love Tupac. I do too, actually. Isn't there like a big conspiracy that he's still around?

If you want to call Stone Cold Truth a conspiracy, then yes. For sure. I knew it. He shares a duplex with elvis it's they're awesome yeah there's like a group of them somewhere no if for sure if if they if like tupac resurfaced i wouldn't think that's weird at all yeah yeah he he just needed out yeah i get it we're gonna get in trouble we Give up, we understand you. I don't.

I don't. Let's go out to Amy in Dallas in the 817. What's up, Amy? Hi, how are you guys? Trying to not get canceled. What are you up to? How do you know area codes, John? How do I?

Yes. I just love area codes. Is that yours, really? Are you 214-817? Dallas is huge. Stop it. Which one are you,y area what area code are you 817 214 yes there you go wow okay sorry just had to just had to confirm that all right amy how come what's

up um okay so my husband and i have $41,500 in debt. $13,000 is in car debt, $13,000 in school loan, and then $15,000 would be in credit cards. So my question is, should we trade in our vehicle? We only have one. It's worth $21,000, so we have like $8,000 left if we pay off the rest that we owe. So should we do that or should we just keep on paying it off? How much do you guys make a year? $95,000.

Our rule of thumb really is if you can pay off the car in 18 months, then it's not like the major problem of the equation. Yeah, I wouldn't. So I'd probably just pay it off. Okay. How'd y'all run up $13,000 in credit card bills? It's actually 15. 15.

We went to Mexico in August and we got engaged, and right after that, we got married. And so then we moved into an apartment, and we bought stuff for the apartment that we shouldn't have. So it was a mix of all of that together. Yes. Yes. So you guys had like a whirlwind where you basically upped your debt by 33%. Well done, Kayla. Okay, but we learned a lesson, right?

Yes, definitely. Yeah, so to answer your question, Amy, yeah, I would, I mean, I think you guys can buckle down and get some extra side hustles and pay this debt off. I mean, I would work at, yeah, paying off the car, student loans, and then the credit cards. And for you guys, y'all just got married? Yes. That's awesome. So how did you guys find Ramsey?

Well, I've actually been listening to you guys for a while, but never really, like, got into it until we got married. But I didn't talk to my husband about it until like February okay um so he was kind of like iffy but then we started watching more videos together so March was our first month of financial peace so we've been doing it since March okay have you guys gone through financial peace university yes oh good that's amazing i was gonna wedding gift that to you okay i'll wedding gift my book know yourself know your money josh or josh john man you were co-host of the year

nothing says i love you like here have my book kayla jeez rachel her name is not kayla it's amy geez Rachel I'm sorry Amy geez this whole segment's falling apart here Amy listen Josh get it together sorry sorry Rhonda Amy so listen are y'all

working side hustles and grinding on the side here to get this thing done we're not at the moment but that's what I want to see you do. Because when I look at... I work part-time, so I'm going to definitely try to look for another job to have it be full-time.

Do you guys have kids? No, not yet. Okay. So when I see 13, 13, and 15, that's pretty spread out like that. That says to me, y'all are the problem globally. Like, there's not one big cancer there. This is just a life that y'all that says to me, y'all are the problem globally. Like there's not one big cancer there. This is just a life that y'all have chosen to live. And now you have chosen a different

path. I would love to see y'all get one, two, and three extra jobs and really, really get after it for the next 12 months. Because you're going to open your eyes and you're going to be stunned at how far y'all move this needle. Because honestly, Amy, I'm like, your numbers. I mean, if you guys lived, again, you guys are renting an apartment. If you didn't live the Dallas life, like you guys lived on nothing, and you guys could get this knocked out in 12 months. Yeah. Dallas is expensive, but if y'all don't get a knuckleheaded apartment there,

you could make this thing happen. Are you in? That's just a question. Are you in? Yes, definitely. Alright. We're excited for y'all. I'm going to give you Josh Deloney's new book Own Your Past, Change Your Feet.

I'm going to give you my book too. We'll give you both mine and Rachel's. And we're going to send you a year of every dollar. The Uber app. You can connect with your bank so you and your husband can learn this new money path together in real time. Hey, and if you want to get some side gigs so you and your husband can, y'all can learn this new money path together in real time. Hey, and if you want to get some side gigs,

you need some extra cash, but you don't have time for one, passive income might be for you. Get the ins and outs of what passive income is and how to get started. Go to RamseySolutions.com slash newsletter, and you can get some other ideas for making some money on the side. Let's run out to Kayla real quick in Billings before the show's over. We're right up against the clock. Kayla, get right to your question.

Hey. So mainly my question is how to go about when you have health issues and health debt. The health debt that kind of keeps coming keeps us in essentially no money. And we are both working quite a bit of hours. And I have two jobs. And I make a good income, but it's just not enough to keep up with the medical bills that are going to keep coming. What are the challenges, hon?

We don't even know. It's been five years. I've been going to every doctor under the sun. I've had digestive issues severely that I didn't work for a while, issues that they just aren't sure. They just label it inflammation, but they don't know. Now I have debt from, you know, insurance not always covering it, but I have ongoing appointments that help keep it at bay, I guess,

but not really solve the problem. But we're kind of on E every month, and it's stressful because it doesn't seem to be ending. So you don't know. Here's the, my career has been spent walking into gnarly situations and having the honor, but also the hard task of just telling somebody the stone cold truth. Is that okay? Yeah, please. So you have a chronic ongoing medical condition, whether that's cancer, whether that's infertility

treatments that people are going through, whether that's chronic inflammation that you just can't get to the bottom of, try to figure it out, figure it out, whatever it may be, maybe special needs, whatever's going on, mental health challenges. There's a moment when you have to make peace with reality. This is going to be recurring and part of our life. And it's from sitting in that reality. And sometimes you have to grieve what we hoped and wished was going to happen in our life because it's not going to happen. We're going to have a different picture and that's okay. Which is making peace with, this is going to be different. And making peace doesn't mean it's all going to be roses and joy and fun and making peace sometimes is just throwing your hands up and saying this is and from that moment you and your husband can begin

to have some hard conversations about well where do we live because maybe billings montana is really expensive um maybe we always had dreams of living on 20 acres out here in billings that's not going well, where do we live? Because maybe Billings, Montana is really expensive. Maybe we always had dreams of living on 20 acres out here in Billings. That's not going to happen. We got to move somewhere where we can get great medical care, but we can also live at a reduced rate. What job do you have versus what I have?

Those are the only reality toggles. Those are the only switches you can toggle, right? Because the other constant is you can have some medical challenges, at least for the foreseeable future. None of this is fun. None of this is exciting or what we wanted to happen, but it is. And I think that's the place where you start. And maybe you and your husband land right back where you are, and we're just going to live on E for the foreseeable future. That's great. That's great. At least y'all both

make peace with that. It's the constant frustration that you keep showing up in empty, showing up on empty, showing up on empty. That's going to drive y'all mad. So let's own where we are. Let's own this reality. And then let's begin to make a plan that's going to look different than we dreamt, but it's going to be the one that's going to give us a non-anxious life moving forward.

Hey, thanks everybody for listening. Thanks to the good folks in the booth. Thank you to Rhonda Cruz, my co-host. Josh Deloney, you're wonderful. Thank you, America. We'll see you soon right here on The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Dr. John Deloney. If you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey baby steps, go to ramsesolutions.com and click on the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's ramsaysolutions.com and click

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