The Ramsey Show - App - Should We Save for Kids' College or Our Retirement First? (Hour 2)

Episode Date: October 29, 2018

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. We're glad you're with us, America. Thank you for joining us. Open phones this hour as we talk about your life and your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Scott's going to start off this hour in New York. Hi, Scott. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you for taking my call. Pleasure to be talking to you you too sir what's up well uh recently got married a couple years ago uh we are looking to i'm trying to figure out whether uh or not to pay down uh my house or my wife's house

uh and we also have uh some equity that was gifted to me when I purchased my home that I'm actually kind of paying my father back because I purchased a home from my father, the interest rate that I'm getting on the mortgage. So I've been on the program for about two years. Everything's paid off. And I work for the government. My wife's a teacher. So we're already putting about 10% to 15% of our income into our – for myself, I actually am – I went to the government version of Financial Peace University. So where you're talking about the TSP, that's what I have at my job. My wife has a 403B.

The funny thing is I'm actually one of the coordinators for that program. Okay, so you're working baby steps four, five, and six. You've got your retirement going. You're debt-free. You have your emergency fund in place. You have a house that you live in, and you have, I guess, a rental house as a second house that one of you used to live in. Is that correct? Correct. And is the other house rented? Her brother is living there. He's living there by himself. He's paying us.

Ultimately, after the mortgage and the association fees and the taxes are paid, we're actually losing about $136 a month on the house. And why are you subsidizing her brother? Well, it's not that we're subsidizing him. Ultimately, I would just rather, at least this was the mindset, was that I would rather have him there and we get some tax benefit from the house. So I assume that the $136 a month that we're losing, we're actually getting back at the end of the year to at least break even or maybe still make some money on the home.

I can stay home and break even. All right, so you got this. Is that her house or your house? I bet it's hers since it's her brother living there. Correct. Okay. If you didn't own that house, you wouldn't go buy that house and call tax

benefits and subsidizing brother a good plan yeah we're actually up and down in the house she bought it for 210 probably worth about 170 180 okay well we'll probably hold it and break even though we can get it come on up in value what's your household income uh between the two of us about one between 180 and 200 okay so your question is what to pay off first or what yeah uh well i also have so when i purchased the house from uh we we bought the house that we live in now in 2003 i i had the the monies to put down on the house but i didn't i wasn't able show income, so the house was actually purchased in my father's name. Oh, crap. Once I had developed the income to be able to get the mortgage in my name, and before I was getting married, I had purchased a home from my dad.

Now, for me to have that mortgage and not pay PMI, there had to be a certain amount of equity, which I didn't have in cash at the time. So my father essentially gifted me. So what's your question? The question is, do I pay back the money to my father because I'm paying him that? I'm paying him the... Sure. You have a second mortgage on your house to your dad. You're going to stay in the house.

Yeah, you pay it off as fast as you can. Absolutely. And then you pay off the first mortgage. And then hopefully by then that rental will have come up to it's worth at least what you owe on it, and you can get rid of it and get rid of brother out of the house. And then you're debt-free, right? Yeah. Yeah.

I would not own a rental property that I break even on, dude. It's not my goal. I'd sell that rental property as soon as Brother could move if you weren't $40,000 upside down. But you're $40,000 upside down, so we'll wait on that market to recover a little bit because most real estate in the U.S. has now recovered. You're in a weird situation there if it hasn't. But give it another year or two or whatever, and let's get it recovered. So I have to write a large check to get rid of it. I'd rather write $136 check than I would a $40,000 check.

So I'll do that for a little while. But this idea of buying property to subsidize relatives that were losing money on and calling that a tax write-off, this is not good with money. But you didn't set out to do that. It's just where you ended up by marrying into it. So when it comes up in value, dump it. And in the meantime, pay off your second and then pay off your first there we go ding kevin's with us in denver hi kevin how are you doing good dave how you doing better than i deserve what's up

thanks for taking my call uh two-part question i think i know the first part need help on the second part um my dad came to me a couple years ago and he was getting ready to retire and wanted to take or offered for me to take over a whole life insurance policy for him. I think he's just kind of looking to get rid of the premiums before he retired. I would like to get rid of it now knowing a little bit more about whole life insurance, but he keeps telling me I need to hang on to it and keep it so that when he retire, excuse me, when he passes, I have money to pay the taxes on the inheritance money that will be coming to me.

So how large is his estate? I would say it's close to a million. There's no taxes on his estate. So he doesn't know what he's talking about. There's no taxes on it. No, you don't have taxes on it. There's no federal estate tax on estates unless they're over $5.49 million this year. Okay, so I think he's converted most of his Roths and his 401Ks and all those things. If his estate is $1 million, there's no taxes on it, dude. So I won't pay any taxes on any of it.

No, you may pay a state probate tax, but there's no federal estate taxes on an estate of $1 million. None. Zero. Okay. Zero. I'd have over $5 million for the feds to get after you. So you know what he's doing? He's parroting back what the idiot whole life agent told him that sold him this.

You need to keep this because of estate tax planning and and he's been hearing that since you were born and so he's just spitting those same words back out like a parrot in a cage okay but he doesn't know what he's talking about okay and neither did the whole life agent for that matter but okay well obviously okay and so as far as like a conversation with him about that, because when he gave it to me, obviously it had some value. It's worth about $8,000. Now it's worth $16,000. Dad, I really appreciate you and I appreciate the intent behind this. The more I have investigated it, I think I'm positive that my financial coach is telling

me that I can do a better job with this $8,000 than leaving it in this policy. This policy is not congruent with my plans. So while I want to honor you and be grateful to you and tell you thank you, I also need to let you know I'm cashing it out. Awesome. That's loving. And if he comes back at you then, then he's not respecting the fact that you're now what's known as a grown man. And, Dad, love you.

I get to make my own decisions. Got my own zip code now. You know, that's my deal. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways. Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids. Each has debt and has struggled to make ends meet. But they're starting to make headway with their budgets and smarter decisions with money.

They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that one family has the right amount of term life insurance and the other doesn't. Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen, their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and that does happen, their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education

or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance. Just go to ZanderInsurance.com or call 800-356-4282 and see how inexpensive it really is. Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible. It really does make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Thank you for joining us, America. Larissa is with us in Lafayette, Louisiana. Hi, Larissa. How are you?

Hi. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So I have a question. I am 17. I graduated a year early, and I stayed here when my parents moved because of a scholarship opportunity. I do not know how to support myself while going through nursing school because nursing school is such a time-oriented program.

Okay. So I wanted to know. I'm sorry. So you're how old? I'm 17. You told me that. I'm sorry. And you stayed there because of a scholarship.

Yes, sir. To nursing school? Yes, sir. It's through the state. I graduated here, and my parents moved because of job opportunities. Okay. So the scholarship is partial? Yes, sir.

How much of a scholarship did you get? $20,000 over four years, so it wasn't a large one. Twenty over four years, and it's a four-year program, I take it? Yes, sir. Okay. And what does it cost? It costs $13,000 yearly. Okay.

Of which you have five. Yes, sir. So we need eight. Yes, sir. Plus you need000 yearly. Okay. Of which you have five. Yes, sir. So we need eight. Yes, sir. Plus you need to eat. Yes. There's that detail, right? Where are you living?

With friends, family? What? I'm living with friends. We split a house out in the country because it's cheaper. You and some friends or roommates? Yes, sir. Okay. And so you have rent and electricity your share and you have food and

you need eight thousand dollars a year yes sir okay so when we add all of that up what does your rent and other stuff cost you a month it cost me about nine hundred to a thousand depending on my gas and i work minimum wage and I do things like cleaning people's houses and things like that, trying to make a little bit of extra money. Okay. All right. So let's kind of add that up then. I get about $12,000 a year for that, and I need $8,000 a year for tuition

and probably some books and some stuff too, but we're pretty close there. So $20,000 a year is what you need to earn. Yes, sir. and probably some books and some stuff too, but we're pretty close there. So $20,000 a year is what you need to earn. Yes, sir. And minimum wage doesn't do that. No, sir. Sounds like you need a new job. And I have an opportunity to start wholesaling some name brand clothing,

but I don't have the money to put up right now. No, you don't need to get into that. You need a job. You need a job. So you can make $15, $20 an hour babysitting and nannying. You can make good money cleaning houses, $15 an hour, $10 an hour, cleaning houses, walking dogs, other stuff. So I think we need to get you doing something along those lines. And the other benefit of those is not only do you make a lot more than minimum wage,

and by the way, you'll make enough to work your way through with the numbers that you and I are discussing here. You are going to be working all the time, though. But if you can get a situation like that that's semi-self-employed, where you're cleaning some houses, you're doing some nannying, you're doing some whatever, and you can control your time and you can make more money. You can control when you work and even how much you work. Now, you are going to struggle because you're going to work and study and go to class. And that's all you're going to do.

But you can make it if you do that. The other thing I would do is I would apply for a bunch of scholarships. The third thing I would do is investigate some of the hospital companies that are out there, particularly in your immediate area. Talk to the nursing school and see if there are any of them that if you agree to work for them for a couple of years after school, how much of the nursing they would pick up for you? Okay. Kind of an indentured servant type program, if you've ever heard of those?

Yes, sir. I know there is a hospital that I'm actually planning on working at. They will forgive all my student loans if I work for them for five years. Well, let's see if we can get a job over there now and let them just pay for it now. Okay. Rather than have to pay you back for student loans. Because I'm trying to keep you out of student loans with the math you and I are doing here.

Okay. So I want you to apply for 100 more scholarships. You'll get turned down for most of them. But if you get another $5,000, it really helps the situation a lot. I want you to think about doing different things for work that make you a lot more money, and you can control the time. And I want you to investigate with this hospital what they will do and talk to the nursing school about anything they can do to help you as well,

that you're working your way through. But you sound like you are, me just talking to you you're you're very very mature for 17 years old it sounds to me like you're a rock star thank you and so i don't think your need to play beer pong is real high no sir i think you don't mind working and and grinding and hustling grind to get your way through this and not come out of this with, you know, 40, 50, 10,000, $20,000 of student loan debt. You don't need to, but you're going to have to make some very distinct and very careful choices to do this.

And the good news is your living expenses are very reasonable and your tuition is very reasonable. And the third piece of good news is you've chosen a fabulous career in terms of employment. You will be able to get employed instantaneously. I mean, nursing is just, there's always a shortage. So you're going to do very, very well. But I would go talk to that hospital administrator at that local hospital. Just set up an appointment with them and just walk in there like you own the place.

Because I kind of think you can do that. And just tell them that they need to pay for your school and then you'll promise to work there. How's that work? And how can you help me get through school? Because I don't want a bunch of student loan debt. I'm trying to not be a statistic. And, you know, get him impressed with you

and let him help be a hero in your story and him or her, that hospital administrator, who, by the way, needs nurses. So they're going to be very intentioned, very inclined towards helping someone in your position, especially someone who walks in and asks for help and walks in and says, what can I do to earn some help? And so on. And, you know, get some people on your side helping you accomplish this task that's in front of you. But you're on your way.

You're doing really good. Congratulations. Very proud to talk to you. Call me back if you need help as you're fighting through this. Greg is with us in Milwaukee. Hi, Greg. How are you? Dave, thank you for taking my call.

How are you today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I just have a question for you. I want to lay out our portfolio and get your opinion on a couple of things here. My wife and I don't have any debt with the exception of our house. We do lease our cars, and we do that. I have a customer and a good client of mine that I reciprocate the money that they spend with me back with them, so it's kind of a win-win

situation for both of us here. The main question that I have is we have some investments over $100,000 with some Roth IRAs and some mutual funds and that type of thing. She has a 401K. I have a 401K. She has a pension as well. And right now we are paying above and beyond our mortgage on our house by about 10% to 20% and putting that toward the house. With the amount of investments that we have diversified compared to what we're putting into our houses, is that the right formula? We tell folks to put 15% of your income into retirement once you're debt-free, accept the house, and have your emergency fund.

And above 15% of your income going into retirement and you're debt-free, accept your emergency fund, then I would put everything above that towards the house until the house is paid off. So I would take your income times.15. Make sure the total of all the Roth IRAs and 401K contributions you're doing is equal to that and not greater than that. If it's greater than that, back some of the contributions down a little bit

and throw the balance at the house. If it's not up to that, let's get it up to that and throw the balance at the house. And then we suggest you put the mutual funds in four categories, growth, growth and income, aggressive growth, and international. Thank you for joining us, America. Dale dropped by from Augusta, Georgia, here in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. Hi, Dale.

How are you? I'm doing great. Thanks, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Well, I had an unusual question, and I've been pondering it for a while. After my divorce, I moved to Augusta and started working, and I moved in with friends and rented their garage apartment.

So I have use of kitchen, restroom, and laundry, all normal things you would renting a room. But I came across a condo that one of the other realtors owned, and I had an opportunity to buy it for about $52,000, and its value is anywhere from $65,000 to $70,000. And it rents and was rented when I bought it a couple years ago. And it makes about $1,300 a month. My rent where I am is only $500. And this one's going to be available before the end of the year. And I've been pondering, do I want to move into it, make it my own home now that it's vacant. So you bought it and it's rented?

Right. Okay. And what's your income? Average about $35,000 a year commissions. Okay. Now, the way I answer questions, what always ends up happening with me on stuff like you're describing is what feels good in the short term might not be taking me to my long-term goal. And so what I'm always asking myself is where am I going to be in 10 years and which of these decisions takes me there? Okay. Now, obviously, you can live in a garage apartment.

How old are you? About 55. Okay. And you can live in a garage apartment until How old are you? About 55. Okay. And you can live in a garage apartment until you're 65. And you can make the transactional spread here. Make some extra money doing that is what we're saying. And then the question you ask yourself is, is that worth it to you?

Does that get you someplace that you couldn't get otherwise? My tendency personally would be to do everything I can to increase my income during the next 10 years and be living in that condo. I mean, you landed in the garage apartment as a place to heal and get reset after a divorce. Right. But that really wasn't, it's kind of camping. I mean, you're not a college student. I mean, this is camping. That's right. You know, and so this isn't like your destiny. It's not where you. I mean, you're not a college student. I mean, this is camping. That's right.

And so this isn't like your destiny. It's not where you want to be long term. And so my point is just because the numbers work on something doesn't mean it's right. So if you've healed and you've settled, you've got your footing under you again, which I'm guessing you do since you bought a condo, I'm probably moving into that condo. But the caveat is what am i going to be doing 10 years from now that makes me 70 000 instead of 35 and what trek am i on there what have i got to do to get mine so part of healing is believing in yourself again at a way or believing in yourself in a way maybe you never have to where you put yourself on a career track

to get those incomes up long term but uh if that's where you are if that's where your head is i think i'm going to move into the condo now if your head is saying you know i think i'm probably gonna this is all i'm ever going to do i'm just going to ride 35 000 into retirement you may want to rent another garage apartment put the other money in your pocket but i don't think that's you um no i'd really like to purchase a house and keep the condo as rental income. Yeah, well, let's get it paid off. It is paid off. Oh, good.

That'd be awesome then, yeah. Well, have you got extra money, too, to buy a house with? I'm saving, not at the moment, no. Okay. Then living in that condo with no payment at all, you know, you can do that. And, again, getting your income up gets you into that goal faster. So I'm going to be working on the income side of the equation, and I'm probably going to go ahead and enjoy that paid-for condo.

It's kind of like saying, I'm back. You know what I'm saying? Does that ring a bell with you? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, you're back. Yeah, the old you is back. And you got a future.

And it's bright. And it's going to be good. And yeah, I'm moving in the condo. But it's on my way to a house that I'm going to pay cash for. Because my income is going to go up because I'm back. And yeah. I'm not going to camp anymore at 55. It was okay to do that for a little while. No shame in that game.

But you got past that stage now. You're back. Is that okay? Yeah. Cool. Thanks for dropping by. Thanks. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Claire is with us in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Claire, how are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you? Nervous. Good. How can I help? I have a question for you.

So we've been following your baby steps for a little less than a year now, and I feel like we are a bit ahead on retirement, but we are behind on college savings for our two kids. How old are your kids? They are 12 and 10. Okay. And how old are you guys? They are 12 and 10. Okay. And how old are you guys? We are 46.

Okay. And how much is in retirement? A little over a million. Oh, you are ahead. Congratulations. You're millionaires. So what's your household income? It doesn't always feel that way.

Well, you are. I mean, when you have more than a million dollars, you're a millionaire. Yes. Okay. Yes, you're right. Thank you. Thank you. So what is your household income?

A little over $200,000. Okay. So why can you not save 15% of $200,000 and still catch up and have plenty of money for college when you got eight years before college? Well, we're paying for private school right now as well. What are you paying for private school? How much? Cash. How much? Cash.

How much? About $20,000 a year. Per kid or total? Total. Okay, you make $250,000. But we're looking. No, $200,000. Okay, you make $200,000.

That leaves me $180,000. Okay. And by the way, if you can cash flow $20,000 a year for private school, that cash flow can be turned towards cash flow in college, too, if they choose a college that's reasonably expensive. Yes, okay. Okay, that's a good point. Yes, all right.

So, you know, 15% of your household income going into retirement, you don't need it. You're in good shape. I agree with you. If you want to stop, it's not the end of the world, but I don't think you have to stop if you'll just sit down and actually do a written budget on a $200,000 a year income, $20,000 out for kids' school today, we're going to offset some of that with cash flow in some college, but some college we want to increase and set aside and put 15% aside. So we're only talking about $30,000, so that's $50,000 going into these two things, private school and retirement,

and then we've got to save something for college. You save $10,000 a year per kid, another $20,000. You can do that from now until they go to school. They'll have plenty of money. I mean, you just jack up a 529 and pick out good mutual funds that you control inside that 529, get with one of the SmartVestor pros, and they'll help you do that. Click that click smart investor at dave ramsey.com for a list of them in your area they're people we recommend they'll sit down with you help you put that 529 together and pop 10 grand a piece in those two i don't think you have to cut retirement back but if you're putting more than 15 percent

into retirement then you're not working our plan at this stage because you put 15 percent into retirement until college and it is done and house is paid off. Only when those two things are done and then you're at baby step seven do we increase retirement beyond 15%. And 15% of $200,000 is $30,000. So that's how I'm doing this math here. I think you can do it. I think you just got to sit down and not have this vague worry about it and instead have an actual game plan where we lay out and go, this is important about it and instead have an actual game plan we lay out and go this is important this is more important than other things that we're doing that we need to stop doing so that we can do this and that's 10 grand a year per kid for college two kids that's 20

grand if that's what i mean you got it's where you are so good questions thanks for joining us open phones at 888-825-5225. Donald's on Twitter at Dave Ramsey. At Dave Ramsey, I guess is how you say that. Where does buying a home fall in the baby steps? After baby step three, you're debt free. You have an emergency fund of three to six months of expenses. And you have your down payment above that.

Do not move into a home broken in debt. Sally Mae will need her own bedroom. You do not need to buy Sally Mae a bedroom. Do not buy a home when you're broken in debt. The home will be a curse. I want the home to be a blessing. And when you do things right, it's a blessing. When you do things out of order and you get in a hurry because everybody needs a house.

Everybody needs a house. You've got to buy a house. You've got to buy a house. You can't be a renter. You've got to buy a house. This is what broke people say. And then they buy a house when they're broke. And you know what a house is when you're broke?

It makes you broker and broker and broker. That's why they call them mortgage brokers. Because you're a broker. Don't do that. Be out of debt. Have your emergency fund. Have your down payment. After a baby steps, a reason.

That's when you buy a home. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Yeah. Thank you for joining us, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Mike is in Houston, Texas. Hey, Mike, how are you? I'm doing good. Thanks for taking my call, Dave. Sure, man.

What's up? My question is for my parents. If they should pay off their mortgage out of their retirement account, they're 67 to 64. They have $300,000 in retirement. They owe $88,000 on their mortgage, and the property and land is worth about $400,000. Okay. Do they have other income coming in for retirement other than their SNSDG? Social Security. Okay. Do they live pretty frugally? Somewhat. They wouldn't live well below their means. They would? No, they live pretty frugally uh somewhat they wouldn't live well well below their

means they would no they live well below their means okay all right and they would continue to yes sir okay um it's yes i would pay that off okay uh because here's the way i answer the question in my mind is if i had two hundred thousand000 in savings and I was 67 and retired, would I go borrow another $100,000 on my home if it was paid for in order to have $300,000 in savings? Okay. And the answer real quickly in my mind would be no, right? Right. And because all we're doing is doing that in reverse, aren't we?

Yes, sir. And so that's how I kind of get there. But the reason I was asking some of the questions, I'm trying to think, you know, $200,000 is not a huge nest egg. It's a good one, but it's not a huge one. I mean, it's going to produce $15,000, $20,000 a year in income. And then they've got the other $15,000 or $20,000 a year coming in from Social Security, give or take. And they've got to live on that.

Otherwise, they burn through this nest egg, and they end up having to sell the farm in their old age. Right. And I don't want them to do that. So as long as they'll keep spending less than the income that is produced by the 200 and their Social Security, stay on a household budget that's below that, then the game plan you and I just talked about will run in perpetuation no matter how long they live. Okay. Is that logical to you?

Yes, sir. As long as they do that, then yes, I would do it in a heartbeat. Because I love the idea of going into your latter years with everything paid for, especially your home. Folks, when your home is paid for and you're 67, you stabilize for the next 30 years until you're 97 your housing cost. And your housing cost is the largest cost in your budget. See, if you're renting, your rent goes up every year.

For the next 30 years, if you're 67. And that sounds like homelessness to me later. Unless you've got a huge nest egg. And so by owning and by owning with no debt you've completely stabilized your golden years tyler is with us in oklahoma city hi tyler how are you hey dave i appreciate you taking my call sure man what's up well my uh wife and i did our debt-free screen last year in july so we're on steps four five and six awesome when I got back to the Oklahoma City area after the scream, a couple months later, I decided to change my job and employer. And I took a,

what appeared to be a better job fit for us and our family at the time. And it produced nothing but a year worth of turmoil. And so now I just lost my job on Friday last week. Working through the debt snowball, paying off my student loans, I think I pretty much have burned myself out of my career path. And so I'm a pharmacist and my training is skilled in such that at this point, I don't see myself as marketable for other areas. And so that's what I'm trying to figure out. I've been reading books like crazy this last year because I'm passionate about small business. I have an entrepreneurial heart, and I still like working with people, but working in the healthcare sector has just eaten my lunch this past year.

And so I'm trying to figure out what to do now so it's not actually doing pharmacy or dealing with the customers that huf it's the bureaucracy and so how's there another way we apply your existing education and skills to the market rather than just working at cbs correct um i don't know but i i would think that there's got to be some kind of concierge apothecary idea out there kind of old school high-end delivery or something that is not all insurance-based and driving you crazy. Right. You know, like you've seen the doctors, some of the docs go to the concierge model, right? Mm-hmm, correct. Where they lower the number of patients that they see, and you pay a flat fee,

and you've got, like, they'll do house calls and everything, and they actually know their patients now? Right. That kind of thing, where they lower, different kind of practice management? I wonder if there's that kind of application to your world. I have no idea. I'm making this up right now, so I'm clueless. It seems like the pharmacist job market is saturated.

They've been dumping more and more pharmacists in ever since I graduated. Well, and the CVS and Walgreens, they're just stamping it out. That's the Walmart of that world. Right, and that's the world I came from to a smaller sector. And, you know, here I am. I lost $145,000 income, and I'm thinking, well, you know, what next? Obviously, I can't pull the boat to the dock because the dock's no longer there. Right.

Well, I mean, there's two things. One is I'm trying to think through, if I'm you, a business model, because you've got an entrepreneurial itch to scratch, that is some kind of high-service, low-insurance, no-insurance apothecary model where you use your licensing and your knowledge, because you have very specialized and very valuable knowledge. Right. And that's not what you're burnt out on. You're burnt out on the corporate crap.

Right. you're burned out on you're burned out on the corporate crap right and uh and so is there another way to be a pharmacist in today's world that you invent even if it's on a small scale i don't care um but i'm going to begin to investigate business model ideas like that around the country and see who's doing like an old school apothecary i'm almost thinking like a soda fountain in the thing like the old days you know kind of thing weird stuff but i don't know i'm just making this up in my head sitting here i know that here's the thing i do know about the marketplace the very very uh high end high service luxury markets are booming in every sector the uh low end, the bottom end, which is all price-based, is booming. Middle-grade product lines and services are not booming in any space.

Okay. So people, I mean, in other words, cheap hotels and Ritz's are doing good. The ones in the middle are struggling. Right. And so get off on one end of those spaces. You've figured out the bottom end of the commoditized space is killing you so we're probably going to some kind of high-end thing is there the apothecary to rich people model some way i don't know i'm making this up

i'm just asking questions out loud now while we're discovering that i might go back and endure another year or two of the grind to put away $200,000 to go live my dream with. Okay. But I'm not going to submit myself to 30 years of this grind. Right. Okay. But I can put up with all kinds of crap for a little while to get to where I want to go. This last year has been so brutal on my wife and family that they now see what I saw a year and a half ago. What's brutal on your wife and family that, you know, they now see what I saw, you know, a year and a half ago.

What's brutal on your wife and family? Just your time? Your schedule? My morale. Okay. But your morale has everything to do with what you're looking towards. You thought you were stuck there. I can walk.

I don't want, my morale's bad if I'm standing in poop to my knees, okay? But it's not bad if I'm standing in poop to my knees because I'm walking through that, shoveling it to use it as fertilizer to grow a crop. True. Okay? You see the difference? If I can look past it, I can walk through anything. But you couldn't look past it in the last year, and it destroyed your emotions.

Your gas tank's empty. Right. I'm kind of glad that I said that chapter, you know, and I'm ready to turn a new page. Yeah. My point is you could walk back into a similar situation if you knew you were only doing it for two years, because at the end of two years, we're going to do X, Y, and Z. Right. Okay. But you've got to have your X, Y, and Z defined, and I'm not capable of doing that in this setting in, you know, a minute and 45 seconds on the radio.

But I can at least get you started there. So you got the right stuff, dude. You just got to believe in you again and not completely give up on the idea that you can serve people through apothecary, through pharmacy. Because you can serve people that way. I just don't know how to do it business model because I don't know your world well enough. I mean, I'm a consumer. I see the CVS model. I see the Walgreens model out there.

And I see the Doc Concierge model on the high end on the medical care side that's working really well. I'm a customer of that for convenience sake on the high end side. So I don't know. I don't know who that is or how that works, but think it through. You're on the right track, though, dude. You've got this. You got this. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. I'm excited to announce

that we're now carried on 600 radio stations across the country. To find one near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.