The Ramsey Show - App - Should We Sell the House To Pay Off Debt? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: November 9, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: Moving on after a job loss, Selling the house to pay off debt, Dealing with a debt in collections. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they actually love, and create real, amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, host of The Ken Coleman Show,

number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. CJ is with us in Denver. Hey, CJ, what's up? Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken. I am in a pickle and a bit of a mess, and I was hoping you could offer some insight and guidance to help me get out.

Here's a little bit of the facts. I lost my job two years ago during COVID and promptly went into hustling 70 hours a week delivering groceries just to keep my head above water. I was in baby step four at the time, so I just paused everything. Nine months after that, I just burnt out. I couldn't do it anymore. I was in an abusive relationship, and after a few months, I ended up in the hospital. You were in an abusive relationship. It's a long story.

How were you in an abusive relationship when you were working 90 hours a week you didn't have time has to do with family that is related to me by blood not by i got you okay other anyway um i wound up in the hospital weighing 52 pounds. I couldn't do anything. I spent the last six months rebuilding myself, and now I'm in therapy for PTSD, but I find that I'm just quite frozen when it comes to deciding what I want to do as far as my career goes next. Okay. Wow, what a ride. So I'm just trying to figure out what to do.

Okay. So before we get into that, real quick, so you're no longer doing the 70 hours a week. Are you doing anything for income at all right now? I wasn't for a while, and then I started delivering groceries again in a different city just to get a little bit of cash flow. But I noticed that when I do that, it pushes a lot of my stress. Yeah. Okay. All right. Addictive things that I don't want to do. Okay. So again, before we start thinking about the future, I want to get you stable in the now. So what do you need to be making per hour? If we look back on their history of, you know what you made delivering groceries, what you need to make now. What do you need to make?

Gosh. Per hour. I'm trying to think. I would say ideally 18. 18 an hour. Okay, so 18 and 20 bucks an hour is going to keep you stable. Is that correct? Before you go for it, I'm a little bit lost.

I've got to catch up with you, Jessica. Okay, so you went in the hospital and you weighed what? 52. 52 pounds. 5'2". 5'2". I don't have anything left, Dave. Yeah. How old are you?

I'll be 26 next month. Okay. So what do you weigh now? I don't know. Well over 100. Good. Good. Okay.

So we're going in the right direction. That's good. And how are you doing with your mental wellness today? Much better than I was six months ago. I'm still doing therapy three times a week. Good. I think it really depends on... And the PTSD that you mentioned was from the former toxic family member.

Yes. Okay, all right. And you've obviously separated from that situation so where are you living and how are you living so right now i moved states um and you're what right now you're what i i moved states and i have no contact with the family. Oh, you moved states, okay. I am living with a roommate off of my emergency fund. So you had a little savings. I did. Okay, how much is in your savings?

Right now I have $15,000 left. Okay, so you're living with roommates. You're still recovering from the whole meltdown process, for lack of a better term. Good for you. You're getting victory. I'm proud of you. And you're not creating any income today, so you're just literally living on whatever you pull out of savings. Am I understanding you right?

Pretty much. I make about $100 dollars a week um by delivering groceries here and there okay but but too much of that was activating stress okay because i needed to know that before i could understand what kitwork in was going to take you from where you are now how do we move from this place back up into a life of abundance for you and joy right okay yeah yeah so first thing we have to do is we don't need to be delivering groceries anymore because it's bringing up too many bad memories so now we look for what can pay me 18 to 20 an hour and i can get enough hours as i continue with my

therapist he's going to give me some guidance here i'm on this and and so we want to start there so because we don't want to keep burning through this emergency fund. As soon as possible, if you can work 30 to 40 hours a week, if you're healthy enough, then I'm looking at things like Target, Walmart, non-delivery type situations where you've got some stability, community around you, safe environment, and you can make that kind of money. They're paying 20 an hour. Absolutely. So we start there.

I want you to get a short-term, what we call a day job. And this is just getting you back to safe, self-sustaining with your income. Now we look long-term. So we go, okay, where do we ultimately want to go? And there's a process where you've got to start to see things that maybe you've not seen before and you do that by asking questions like if if everything was uh risk-free if there were no risk and i didn't have to train for anything i didn't have to to know if i was going to be good at it just starting with what would i want to do what kind of work would bring me fulfillment and we look at who are the people i want to help problem maybe that I want to solve or a desire that I want to fulfill for someone, and then what are the solutions to that. So that's

the starting process for you. So I'm just curious with all the stuff you've been through, I know you've been through a tremendous amount, I'm just curious, what have you wondered about in some of your deep dark hours, you wish life were better, what have you wondered about doing? If I could do this, if I knew I could be successful in this, I wonder what this would be. I'm just curious, what pops at the top of your mind as I was asking you that? Two things. One, I would love to work overseas. And two, I want to help people kind of find their own way out of abuse. Okay, great. Now, let's look at the overseas thing very quickly. Is there a type of work overseas,

or you just love the idea of being in a different country? Is there some type of people group or type of work overseas that pops in your mind? Definitely more third-world work. Okay. For the least of people that maybe don't have much of a shot you can help them with a better life so we've got something to work with here okay so let me repeat your homework okay and i'm going to give you a couple of resources here's what i want you

to do overseas people who maybe unfortunate circumstances in their life or maybe poverty that's one group then here in the States, people that have gone through abuse. Who's helping those people? What's the best way to help them? What appeals to me? And who's doing it? How do you get there? What does it cost?

How long will it take? This is looking out into the future. Now all of a sudden you go, oh, there is a way. There are a couple of mountaintops. And as you continue to learn more with your head, your heart will eventually select in those areas. Hang on the line.

We're going to give you the Get Clear Career Assessment, which is a 20-minute tool. We'll really answer a lot of those questions, and we'll give you my best-selling book, From Paycheck to Purpose, which is the path to get you up that mountain that you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion

in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of healthcare costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget at chministries.org slash budget.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host open phones at 888-825-5225 javier is with us in cleveland ohio hey javier how are you i'm doing well thanks for taking my call guys sure man what's up so my question is uh i'm in Baby Step 2, and I have about $15,000 in consumer debt. Now, I know Baby Step 2 is pay off all your debt except for the house. So my question is, should I sell the house to pay off the debt, or should I keep the house and continue paying it off as I have done? I would keep it unless there's some reason to sell it. Do you like it?

Yeah, I love the house. The only problem is the house is about 20 miles from my current job, so I will need to buy a car. I think there's about $20,000 in equity in the house. Where'd your car go? Well, I was living in Colorado the last two years, so I didn't really need a car, but now I'm back in Ohio, so I definitely need a car. Well, I mean, how long have you been in a house that you own 20 miles from work without a car?

So I just came home. I've owned the house for three years. I had tenants in there previously, so now that I'm living back in the house, I'm going to need a way to work. So I can save for a car. I'm staying with a relative at the moment. I see. Closer to my job. Gotcha.

Okay. What do you make? I net about $3,000 a month. Okay. And how much debt do you have, not counting the house? I have about $15,000. Okay. And do you have any money at all?

I have my emergency fund, and I have about another $700 saved up for a vehicle. The emergency fund, you mean Baby Step 1, $1,000, or three to six months? Just Baby Step 1. Okay. So you have $1,700 to your name. You make $3,000 a month. And the house is worth what? I believe it's worth about $120,000, and I owe $83,000 on it. Okay. Okay.

Hmm. What did she say you owe? Oh, wait a minute. You haven't got a car yet. Correct. What's the other debt already? So the $13,000 is a credit card consolidation and I owe another $2,000 on an old title loan. Okay, so if you had, if you sold the house, you'd probably net, it sounds

like $20,000 or so, right? Let's just call it that for the discussion purposes. If you had $20,000 cash in the middle of your kitchen table right now and you did not own a house, would you go buy that house with it? I would probably buy that house with it, but I don't think it would be a bad idea to take 13 of it, pay down that credit card consolidation, and take the rest to buy a vehicle. I just think it's better that I got into the house at 4% versus buying a house today at 6%. Yeah, but 6% when you're broke doesn't matter. Right.

And right now, I mean, we're sitting here discussing you buying a $700 car. Right. How old are you? 26. Okay. So if you sell the house and you use that to jumpstart your life and solidify your life and you launch into a career and you launch into a reasonable car and you're 100% debt free and you get on a tight budget and you use all of that to build your emergency fund of three to six months of expenses,

and then you save a down payment to buy a house two years from now, that will be a successful ending. If you sell the house and you screw around for the next two years and sort of do this stuff, you're going to end up wishing you'd kept the house. Right. But if you want to lean in and do the financial peace university stuff hardcore selling the house will catapult you into wealth more than keeping it well you see how i'm doing that yes sir but i mean you got to use every ounce of the money coming

out of this thing to cause your life to be excellent and a solid foundation and we're living on a tight budget we're not spending everything we make we're going to accelerate this career get the income up ken uh beyond where it is yeah and uh you know let's double your income in the next four years yeah this is not about making things better in the temporary this is about changing the course of your life and if it becomes the catalyst for that absolutely agree i think it's the right move you have to commit to the whole plan 100 the whole process and go okay i'm gonna take classes get certifications i'm gonna change jobs again i'm gonna get the parts of my life that aren't stable

stabilized i'm gonna get plugged into a good church i'm gonna get my life straightened up i'm gonna do everything right i'm gonna be clean as a whistle i'm gonna be uh working this budget tight i'm watching what i'm doing i'm gonna be losing weight i'm gonna do everything right i'm going to be clean as a whistle i'm going to be uh working this budget tight i'm watching what i'm doing i'm going to be losing weight i'm going to do everything man i'm going to get this whole thing going and if you use this house money to do all of those things you will end up a millionaire because of selling the house yeah because you're not driving a freaking 700 car for the next nine months making three thousand dollars driving 20 miles for the opportunity to make no money yeah and be careful with who you surround yourself if you sell this house uh be careful who you surround yourself with a lot of broke people giving bad advice and telling you

live it up a little bit uh this is about discipline and diligence walk our baby step plan out and then diligently stay with it don't get too tempted to buy a house after you sell this house if you got to rent for a while just walk this thing out and then you're going to be in really great shape you'll be ahead of most people your age yeah yeah hang on we're going to put you through financial peace university as our guest to help you do all of that javier hold on all right mike's in daytona Beach Mike what's up hey thank you for taking my call sure how can we help situation my situation is as follows I had lost my job back in COVID a year later everything started to go very well and now I have a salary making more than I've

ever made however things went to collections during that time period. So now I'm curious, do I pay off what's in collections? I'm not being bothered by any of the collectors. The only debt I have currently is a van, and I owe about $13,000 on the van. And then I have my rent and Internet and what have you. Yeah, so how much is in collections? Probably $25,000. Okay, from what uh consolidation loan and credit cards okay and you you legitimately owe the money you just weren't able to pay it at the time

correct yeah i can look at my credit report in the past i saw they were there but i'm not being hounded yeah i've seen they've been charted off and sold to third parties already. Being hounded isn't the issue. You morally owe the money, sir. You took money from someone. You need to give it back to them. Correct. Yeah.

But do I focus on those first and just do snowball effect on the smallest to largest? No, I'd knock out the car. If they're not hounding you, I'd run two debt snowballs. Let's run the first one on active debts, clear the car. Any other debts you have that are active, you're paying payments on, clear all of them. And then I would work a debt snowball on the old dead debts, smallest to largest. Now, how long has it been since you paid on these? On the debt collections? Yes, sir.

Oh, probably three months. I went online and i saw okay i had money and i got you you settled but i just yeah i mean i negotiated and said hey i can pay you this much now and we said we settled on the payment um for the collectors but there's still more that i owe and you know i was doing a snowball effect but Okay, so you've settled some of them, but there's still some outstanding. Correct. Okay, when you settle them, make sure you get it in writing that they're accepting X amount, whatever the amount agreed on, as settlement in full.

Get that in writing, email or otherwise. Yes, sir. I already have that printed out. Good, good. And a hard copy printed out so you don't lose the email later because it will come back to get you. But yeah, you need to go through and settle the rest of them after you get the car paid off. That's what we're going to do. What are you making

now? Household income monthly after taxes is 13K. Oh, good lord. You're going to blow through this in no time. Of course you're going to. We had 3K but I had lost my job yeah okay the great news is you

got a great new job and you're going to clean up your mess fast good yeah yes sir yeah go do it dude absolutely there's no no upside to not paying what you owe a it's an integrity issue b it's a legal issue c it's a credit issue uh d did i mention it's an integrity issue and the right thing to do i think i mentioned that yeah go do that one yeah and you know it's an integrity issue and the right thing to do? I think I mentioned that, yeah. Go do that one, yeah. And, you know, it's just going to come back. I mean, these things, it's like a splinter. It eventually will fester and cause you a problem.

It's just a matter of whether it's five months or five years. And so you want this stuff out of your life. When you look in the rearview mirror, you don't want to see headlights. You don't want to see blue lights. They're coming around and around and around. This is The Ramsey Show. Are you sick of planned obsolescence? You know, when companies make products crappy so you have to buy more of their crappy products? Well, me too.

And it's why I love companies like Grip6. Grip6 is all about quality products meant to last forever. That's why their comfortable, bulk-free belts, slimline wallets, and lightweight wool socks all come with a lifetime warranty and simple returns and exchanges. So check them out at Grip6.com today and get up to 20% off with the promo code RAMSEY. Ramsey. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you are here.

Open phones at 888-825-5225.ileen is with us in connecticut hey eileen how are you hi dave how are you better than i deserve i am i'm a first-time caller but i listened to you for a long time well thank you how can we help i am going to turn 59 and a half and I was thinking of paying off my mortgage with my TSP. Something. Cool. How much is your mortgage? Um, um, 82,000 left. How much in the TSP?

730,000. Great. Do it. Do it. Okay. Yep. So you got to make it on 600 000 with no debt life's rough right and i have another roth outside the psp too you killed you killed a girl you're a millionaire

what's the house worth 320 i told you you're a millionaire wow i'm so proud of you you ever thought about it i mean you add up what you what you own minus what you owe and if it's one million or greater you're a millionaire yeah you know i thought about it yeah hard to believe it took a while but yeah well i mean this is what you've been doing what'd you do for a living right post office what'd you do at the post office just a clerk inside you know just a clerk millionaire right i started at what 30 000 and this is a high point 69 000 but i've been there 35 years you're single yeah well i'm divorced yes there was a divorce in the middle there how long you've been divorced in one oh 15 years okay all right and one son he's 22 yeah yeah so you can do it hey uh

i want you to go look in the mirror because you're pretty impressive woman oh okay your dad's a millionaire as a post office clerk shut up this is this amazing it's freaking amazing Oh, okay. Thank you. Your dad's a millionaire. He's a post office clerk. Shut up. This is amazing. It's freaking amazing. Yeah. You did good. You did good.

I'm kind of a nerd, yeah. Well, you've been the tortoise so long, you forgot it was impressive. Mm-hmm. Yep. You're steady. You're predictable. Yes. Right. And all those nights you wondered if you were going to make it when you're going through this divorce right now they all paid off yeah you made it a little nerve-wracking you made it you made it you did it

that's great to hear that i mean you're 69 years old you get six hundred seven hundred thousand dollars with a paid for house after this conversation nine well when i say 69 years old you get 600 700 000 with a paid for house after this conversation 59 well i say 60 years old 59 60 yeah i mean yeah yeah close enough i mean you're 59 and a half to do this but yeah ding ding thank you yeah what do you tell people that their secret to being a millionaire is uh you just gotta to be disciplined and just, you know, every week it just automatically goes in. What kind of, which funds did you use in the TSP? The CS and I, mostly C, though. Yeah.

So you've been following our stuff for a long time? A long time, yeah. How long? In my, oh, 15 years or more yeah you're a baby steps millionaire yeah my son listen we used to go on rides to vermont and i'd have you on in the car so now he's he's very money savvy good good to have a 22 year old that's money savvy they don't live in your basement that way. Oh, no. He left.

Yeah. He's out west. Yeah. Well, very well done. What are you going to do to kick up your heels and enjoy your life now? I don't know. I haven't decided yet. Three to five years. I plan to retire, so we'll see.

You like to travel? Yeah. Yeah. What kind of car do you drive a subaru five-year-old used subaru okay all right when you retire i want you to get a good car a better car okay a nice car you're driving a you're driving a car like a post office clerk, not like a millionaire. You hear me? Okay. I want you to enjoy a little bit of this money, and I want you to be generous with some of this money.

So I want to hear about some kind of, like, cool trip you did. Like you went to Switzerland, or you rode a cruise ship down the Danube, or I don't know what you want to do. What is it you want to do? You need to go do that, and you need to get you a little better car and just drive around the big old millionaire smile on your face okay I'm so proud of you hang on I'm going to send you a copy of baby steps millionaire since you are one now that's fun Ken Coleman it's really fun because you could literally hear the light bulbs going off multiple times. You turned the light bulbs on in multiple rooms of her head there.

It was like, oh, okay, I am awesome, and I was disciplined. That was really sweet, really sweet to see that, and she's been through it, you know, and yet she stayed the course. Really exciting. I want to know what car she's going to buy. That's kind of fun. You'd have to literally convince her to do it. Oh, I'd have to take her to the dadgum lot, I'm afraid. that gum lot i'm sorry but you have to drive her up there just drive her up and go

you're getting this one right but yeah because you know it's one of the things that those of us that uh you grind and you grind and you hustle and you grind and you grind and you don't even look up yeah that's right and then when you look up you go oh look at there right and then you you have to build a new muscle yeah and that's the muscle of enjoying the money it's true and being generous with the money at a different level than never before she you told her your emotions are still functioning down at one level but your money's up at another level right well you told her you said she said i'm a nerd you said well you've been a tortoise so long you haven't noticed. And she's already crossed the finish line.

She didn't realize she won the race. She just kept her head down. She crossed the finish line, right? And she just keeps on going. And for the next three to five years, she's going to stack more money. Yeah. You know, because now she has a paid for house. Yeah.

Or is about to. I was telling a group of business leaders the other day, I'm a turtle on a fence post. If you ever see a turtle on a fence post when you're walking down a country lane you'll know two things one is he didn't get there by himself that's right it's the truth and two he's a bit surprised what am i doing here and uh yeah that that's that's the feeling you have when you when you cross over that apex out on your wealth building you You've been pushing the rock up the hill for so long. When it finally goes over the hill, you're like, oh, God, what do I do now? I didn't even – this actually worked.

Oh, my gosh. It's true. And that's a standard emotion of how do I stop and be generous? How do I stop and enjoy? And you don't have to become irrational. I don't want to go buy a two hundred thousand dollar car but she sure doesn't need a twenty thousand dollar one um out of eight hundred thousand or a million dollar net worth now and that kind of thing so what a wonderful wonderful thing so here's what i want um

we need to somehow bottle that call and for the the group in america that's out there saying you can't make it in america today we need to remind you that a postal clerk just called here yeah making 35 to 69 000 through her working lifetime and became a millionaire by 59 we need to remind you people the little man can't get ahead. The rich just keep getting richer, and the poor keep getting poorer. Wealth inequality is not fair. Let me tell you what the fair is. The fair is where the tilt-a-whirl is and the cotton candy is.

That's what fair is. What's fair is that woman put money into her TSP and didn't go out to eat while your butt was down there stuffing tacos. And then you want to go, well, it's not fair. Let me tell you what's not fair. It's not fair that you want some of her money and you just let this president raise taxes on her. Tax bill just went through that raised taxes on her. That's not fair.

Joe, now you're getting me excited i mean really and so this is this crap man and this idea that you know this country is so broken that people can't get ahead that sweet little lady there it's true just worked steady worked hard worked disciplined worked consistently she had a life she didn't live in a cave and collect lint and only come out on triple coupon thursday but she was diligent she was intentional and she became a millionaire by 59 and then you call me up and tell me it can't happen in america today kiss my butt it can too it absolutely can i talk to these people every day every day everywhere i go and i can't stand it when you hope stealers out there in the name of your leftist agenda keep telling people that this place is so broken that you can't win hey we got our problems but we're the still the

best shot you got if you're the little man in the entire world america still the best shot for the little man in the entire world. That's a statistical fact, you morons. This is the Ramsey Show. our scripture of the day first peter 4 10 each of you should use whatever gift you have received to serve others as faithful stewards of God's grace in its various forms. Tony Dungy says, it's all about the journey, mine and yours, and the lives we can touch, the legacy we can leave, and the world we can change for the better. Truly one of the nicest people on the dadgum planet. That guy is incredible.

All class. No question about it. Greg is with us greg's in rhode island hi greg how are you good dave how are you better than we deserve what's up thank you guys for taking my call long time listener first time caller so appreciate it um i'm calling with a question regarding whether or not uh it would be a good idea for my wife and i to sell one of our cars okay why would you do that so we not, it would be a good idea for my wife and I to sell one of our cars.

Okay. Why would you do that? Well, we are moving in this fall to Tennessee and we currently have two cars and due to the fact that we sometimes commute to work, but we have jobs that have allowed us to go fully remote once we move, so we're no longer going to need the two cars. So to avoid the expense of shipping one of them, we didn't know if it was worth it given the market and knowing that we're planning on having kids within the next three-ish years, we'd be wanting to get another one at that point. What are the cars worth? So I've gotten a few estimates on the one we're looking to sell. And if we went through a dealer and sold it to

them, it would be anywhere from nine to 11,000. But if we tried to do a private party, I think it would be a little bit more than 11. Okay. Do you owe anything on these cars? No, they're both paid for. What do you guys make? We make around $185,000 household income. Okay. I would keep the car until you make the move and get settled in the new life and make sure you don't need it. It's only $11,000.

If you get to tennessee and you're doing the home work from home thing and you settle in the rhythm of that for a few months and you go really one of these cars is kind of stupid sitting here then you can dump it then but uh let's let's test your theory against real life first uh it's because it's not enough money to matter in your situation. Okay, yeah. The other side to it, I don't know if I mentioned, but we are in Baby Step 2, and we have about $58,000 left in debt to pay off. But we started at $120,000.

What's the other car worth? Probably just a few thousand more than that, maybe like $15,000. Your cars aren't your problem. You just had to get organized with your $180, and start knocking the 58 out right yeah yeah we started actually paying down the 120 in november of last year and now it's down to 58 way to go wow so yeah you know so by what six more months you're done at that rate yeah i think our estimated payoff is something like uh end of february or beginning of march yeah that's what i was thinking yeah very good very good and if the

shipping in eleven thousand dollar car is a problem just drive it true yeah just drive it down here and you know then you're in tennessee and i i if it was you know a bigger percentage of your income or a bigger percentage of your debt if it was a bunch of money as a ratio somehow yeah i'd probably dump it at that point i mean tell me the car is worth 50 grand yeah i might dump it you know but it's eleven thousand dollars in your situation with as much money as you make i wouldn't it just doesn't move the needle mathematically and so i personally keep it drive it down to tennessee part you know get your life settled get yourself out of debt and then you go i don't need this car sitting around then you get

rid of it but it's not really a math it's not really a a financial necessity that you do that or a math-based need tom is in grand rapids michigan hey tom welcome to the ramsey show thanks dave how are you doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? So this is a question of integrity. I've paid off about $60,000 in debt, and I have just a few thousand left, $3,000 on a credit card that I'm 99% sure that I did not take out this credit card that it's like an identity theft type of thing have you paid on it before no i have not you're not paid a dime on it

no it was on the very it was on the very end of my debt snowball when did you find out about it um about like nine i don't know nine months 12 months ago why did you not report it as identity theft then because i'm not 100 sure about it and when i contacted the the bank huntington bank to get the transaction history i spent about a year trying to get the transaction history and they they won't give it to me so because they won't give it to me i have no idea if i actually took it out or not so i'm not comfortable yet going to the police and filling out a criminal report for a crime that might not have okay i'm a little bit confused about how your life operates where you don't know if you spent three thousand dollars or not yeah yeah it was it's from like five years ago is when it was taken out, and it was taken out alongside of another. There were two credit cards taken out in my name. One was certainly me. The second one, I'm 99 that it, well, I guess it doesn't matter if it was me or not. The integrity thing is I should just pay it off.

It's my name. I should be responsible for my name. You're not responsible for identity theft, not morally, not under any definition of integrity. Those people are bank robbers. You're not responsible for them robbing the bank so then it sounds to me like you're leaning towards the option that i'm my integrity is trying to tell me to lean away from and that's let the banks you're in you have a wrong definition of integrity sir if someone else robs a bank it is not your job to make the bank whole that is not integrity they robbed a bank someone robbed a bank of

three thousand dollars just because they used your name to do it doesn't make you liable I think you're feeling guilty for being so disorganized five years ago that you're not even sure if this is yours no no it's not a feeling of guilt at all it's like a thing of uh i think that our country lacks integrity and i think i don't disagree with that if you told me you if you told me you had uh if you told me you had taken this loan out i would tell you to pay it as a matter of integrity but you didn't take the loan out is what you're telling me. I mean, 99.9% is kind of like 100. Okay, well, let me give you just a real brief back story.

At the time that this happened, I was living in a really bad area of town that was overrun by gangs because I was house-sitting a house for somebody for my church. I didn't realize that that's what I was getting into at the time, but that's what I ended up getting myself into. But I'm the one who made the decision to go and live in that bad area, and while I was in that bad area, I'm pretty sure this identity theft thing happened. I think that's where my guilt is.

I made a bad decision because of the bad decision that I made. You lived in an area where people robbed banks. One of them robbed a bank that does not make you responsible for robbing a bank because you lived in an area where people rob banks if you'll think of this as a bank robber it'll help you work through the ethics of it yeah i hear what you're saying but it's not okay, go pay the bill if you want. I'm not paying the bill if I don't owe it. I'm done arguing with you, okay? Is it not a little fishy, Dave, that he calls the holder, the bank of the credit card,

and says, this is me, and I'm getting bills for this. I want to see the transaction history, and they won't share it with him? That seems a little squishy weird to me. Well, yeah, it is weird. Something's not adding up, and then he feels like he's got to die on this hill here so i and how do you 99.9 the point one i i think he's 100 sure that he didn't take it out i think he is i think he's 100 sure that he didn't do this but he still feels like he has to do it for some reason i don't know where that's coming from it's it's it is not an integrity issue listen if you call the show and tell me you don't want to pay a bill that you owe i'm gonna i'm gonna be all over your

butt for integrity okay i do it all the time and i have for 30 years but when someone steals your identity you are not responsible under any scenario for that just because you lived in an area where identity thieves live i mean if you live in canada and there's an attorney there in canada that's trying to rip somebody off on a 13 million dollar scam are you liable because you live in canada no you're not this is just that's just absurd this this this was that hour for sure that puts this hour of the ramsay show in the books we'll be back with you. Before you know it, in the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey folks, Ken Coleman here. Did you know The ramsey show is one of the most popular podcasts

in the world get your daily dose of advice on life and money check out all of our shows from the ramsey network wherever you listen to podcasts