The Ramsey Show - App - Should We Take Out Debt for IVF Treatments? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 19, 2020

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🎵 🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Christy Wright, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today here on the air. We are taking your calls about your life and your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

Brant is with us in Nashville to start off this hour. Hey, Brant, how are you? I'm doing well, sir. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I was calling because I just recently moved to Tennessee for a girl. And she and I have been getting very close, and we started looking at rings. I've got about $1,500 in the savings account for my Step 1. I'm working on Step 2. About to finish paying off credit cards. The only payment

I have left is I owe on my pickup that I dropped. And I was starting to think about buying a ring and popping the question. So I was wondering if I should pause on the debt after I pay off the credit card, pause on overpaying the truck and try to save up money for the wedding and honeymoon and all that, or if you think that would be a bad idea. Well, I think you're going to get married. And I think you better figure out a way to pay for it. So, yeah, I mean, I don't think there's, you know, any questions. So you're probably pushing pause on your whole Baby Steps thing right now

and piling up cash first for a ring. And then, you know, once you set a date, then you lay out your goals and what you need to spend on a wedding. So what do you make? Currently I'm making around $35,000 to $4,000 a month. Okay. All right. And what would you – I mean, have you had any discussions with her at all that this is not a surprise to her?

Or you guys have talked about the type of wedding or how far out this might be? I hope she finds out by listening right now. I hope that's how she finds out. She's like, oh, a ring's coming. Well, we've gone out together and looked at rings, and she just picked one out. We haven't bought it or anything yet, but she definitely – I saw the way she looked at it,

so I'm kind of like that's the ring I've got to get at this point. Maybe. Yeah, I was like – Maybe. It's a little bit more than what I was thinking. How much? It's a little bit more than what I was thinking. How much? It's a really pretty ring. I believe it was $3,000.

Okay, that's all right. One month's income is your max on a ring. Yeah. So three will do, and you save up, obviously, and you pay cash for it. Then you start talking about, okay, what are we going to spend on the wedding and how far away is that? And, you know, can we save up that amount of money during that time? If you can't, then that's not your wedding budget.

Yeah. So any idea how long this might be? Um, I don't know, to be honest, it's kind of one of those things. Um, we actually just met back in, uh, January. Um, Crazy story. I didn't ever think we would be here, but here we are. And so we really agree on a lot. And she's actually the one that's kind of been pushing me to start studying your process and your systems.

And I actually just started listening to you yesterday. And it was kind of like almost like drugs for me. I started listening to every podcast that would come on. These are good drugs. Just to clarify. Drugs that will help you. It's an antibiotic. So, yes, I mean, it's kind of one of those things where she and her mom,

they've told me a little bit about your system and things like that, and so I kind of yesterday, everything's just kind of becoming a little more real. So I just decided, you know, I want to make sure that I can give her a good future and my family a good future. So I started listening to you, and it's kind of just one thing's led to another. Does she work? Currently, she does work. She is – she said she plans to work she wants to be a

homemaker and i love that about her um that's wonderful how much debt does she have uh she has none okay and what does she what does she currently make um she i don't know the specifics uh i know her parents gonna pay for the wedding i'm not sure on that either i i'm thinking so um they're very traditional and so i'm thinking that you know there's going to be quite a bit of an offset cost that they're going to take care of okay on that how old are you guys i'm 25 she is 20 okay yeah i suspect all right. That's fine. Well, I think the first thing is you say, yes, we're going to push pause, and yes, we buy a ring, and no, you do not pay more than one month's income. The jewelry stores sometimes will tell you up to three months' income for an engagement ring.

And here's the thing. I'm a real practical guy. I get it that you're in love, but I'm a real practical guy, and there is zero correlation between the size of the ring and the success of the marriage. As a matter of fact, at this point, the ring gets to a certain size. There's an inverse correlation, meaning that a huge ring can indicate failure. And she's the type that she would be fine with a $200 ring. I know, but she picked out a $3,000 ring and smiled at you. And said it was her favorite. Yeah, aw, there it is. There it is. ring i know but she picked out a three thousand dollar ring and smiled so yeah so she's obviously a great gal so you stop and you save up for the ring um then when you but

you have to then um assess what responsibility you guys have for the wedding and the honeymoon and you have to say and you have to say that has to be far enough out that you can save up and pay cash for that too. Yeah, and it's not going to be something where we're getting married next month or anything like that. I know, but let's just pick a number. Let's say next May. And so you know you have, what, 10 months or something. Okay. And, and you're going to need $10,000.

Well, you need to save $1,000 a month or you need to get $10,000 before you push play again on your baby steps. So we're going to get the ring and your, your portion of the wedding that you're going to pay cash for out of the way before you push play again and get it start getting out of debt does that make sense yeah yeah and i know she's she's kind of made she's a lot better with money than i am clearly just because she put she did put me on your trail um i used to be really good with money and then i got a job making a lot of money and I suddenly got very bad with money it's kind of one of those things

the more you make the more you spend I think you're going to be okay I think it's going to work out we will continue to be the antibodies antibiotics the good drugs to help you guys get this dialed in nothing you told me here

is out of line if you come in and go we're going to finance a thirty thousand dollar wedding because that's her dream wedding then i'm going to say whoa start telling me you're going to buy a ten thousand dollar ring on thirty thousand on three thousand dollar four thousand dollar month income i'm going to say whoa uh i'm you know i've always wanted to go to the caribbean and drop or go to hawaii and drop,000 on my honeymoon. Whoa! Not with the numbers you're giving me here. Not unless you're getting married five years from now, which is also whoa.

You've got to dial in, use some common sense and some planning, some goal setting, and then that will tell you what your points are that you have to hit and the level of wedding you're going to hit and what, you know, the level of wetting you're going to have. And that's all part of the program. Good question, Brant. Congratulations. Congratulations.

You can let us know after this is all happening and we'll congratulate you again. That's right. There we go. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. we're all going through challenges and our lives have been impacted in ways we've never anticipated if we learned anything it's that change is constant, and having a plan is crucial to our family's livelihood. This is why I talk about term life insurance every day. And for those of you that haven't taken care of this for your family, I'm not sure what you're waiting for. Hopefully, recent events have opened your eyes, and if you need some extra motivation,

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We will have a packed out crowd here in Nashville. We have a few seats available. We're going to sell it to 50% to leave a little room in there for folks. And looking forward to this. Business Boutique event has always a sellout. And it's going to be October 22nd through the 24th. This year, for the first time ever launched today, we're going to stream the entire event for only a $129 ticket. And this is a three-day, two-and-a-half-day event.

Three-day event. Yeah. And we cover all of the main things that these women struggle with. So marketing, sales, managing your money, social media. And, you know, we talk about this all the time, but pushing past your fear. We give them the information they need to win, but also the inspiration to believe they can do it and Dave you've seen it a million times when you've spoken at this event that's actually what changes the game when they walk out of there they believe they can do it they come in timid holding under

their bag is there a seat for me here and they walk out ready to charge hell with a water pistol like they are excited and they're going to go win. And it's amazing how that one decision changes the trajectory of their business and their life. So, man, I'm so excited because so many more people are going to get helped by the fact that they can watch it from home if they can't travel this year. So this is going to be really great. The Business Boutique event, equipping women to make money doing what they love. It's all about ladies starting, running, and operating businesses. And we typically have about 3,000 folks there. We should have around 1,500 this year. If your state is a state that you would like to temporarily

escape from, come on down. Tennessee's open. And we're hoping for business here. And we'd love to have you. This will be in October. And of course, things will be different by then, one way or the other. And so we would love to have you. There's still some tickets available if you'd like to come in person. And, of course, in addition to that, we're launching today the $129 live stream. You're going to hear a lot from Christy. Chris Hogan will be speaking. Elizabeth Hasselbeck will be speaking.

Annie F. Downs will be doing a keynote as well. And I'm excited about some of these other ladies that are speaking. This is the first time a few of them have been on this stage with you. Yeah, and we try to change it up for that reason. We try to keep the speakers fresh, have new perspectives, new styles. Every single talk I'm doing this year is new. So that's going to be fun because if you've come before, it's going to feel like a completely new and fresh event because it is. And we've worked really hard to create new relevant content, especially in the landscape of what people are dealing with this year.

Well, I had some Gigi's ice cream the other day. Yeah. And Gigi Butler's coming, huh? Yes, she is. So I may come get some samples. Okay, you come get some samples. I may just show up and act like I own the place or something. Yeah, just something like that.

You know what's so funny, though, is when you hear from women like Gigi Butler, like you, you tell your story at Entree Leadership Summit and Master Series or, you know, someone like Jamie Kern Lima. When you hear from women that have done it, men that have done it, you see something in their story that makes you believe if they can do it, I can do it, too. It's not just business principles. It's the story, the testimonial, the grit, the blood, sweat, and tears that these people endured to get to where they are. And it makes you have that strength and momentum and motivation to get through your tough season of building this thing. Well, in order to be on the business boutique stage, you won't let them on. We won't let them on. Someone to deliver that is inauthentic. Right. And if you're going to be authentic in business, you've got scars.

Yeah. You know, you've taken some blows. Yep. And if you can't talk about that in a way that is where everybody can relate to it, then you don't need to be on it. That's not part of what we do. Right. If you've got everything figured out and you have a buttoned up plan and just do my plan and it'll be perfect you don't need to come yeah because you yeah you're not even real that didn't happen and so and uh i've heard gg several times uh she's on our entree podcast for instance uh

earlier in the year and uh just really down to earth and you're just like wow the humility right it was pretty incredible that's a major national brand. Oh, absolutely. I mean, she's done. And Lisa Revere is a world-class communicator. Oh, my gosh. She will be great. Elizabeth's been a friend. Hasselbeck's been a friend for a long time for you and me and Rachel.

All of us are back to the Fox and Friends days and so forth. And she just lives here in our community and is just absolutely incredible. And Jamie Kern Lima is a story. So, uh, and, uh, Jamie Kern Lima is a story. Yeah, she's amazing. So I had not heard about her until I guess like the last year or so, but she founded it cosmetics. It recently sold to L'Oreal for a billion dollars, but it's not just her story of those early days of believing in herself and what she built this empire to, but she has this heart of gold. She's one of those people that you walk into a room and she's the big deal.

And she says, look at you. Look at what you're doing. She's a person that shines a light on whoever she's around. And she makes you believe in yourself. And it's just incredible when you have people on that stage that not only have this incredible success, but they have this incredible humility and heart. It just inspires you because you want to be like that. Well, this is two and heart that it's, it just inspires you because you want to be like that.

Well, this is two and a half days of heroes. It really is. And help you become a hero in your story for sure. Christy Wright, Chris Hogan, Elizabeth Hesselbeck, Annie Downs, Lisa Prevere, Gigi Butler, Jamie Kern Lima, and Kelsey Humphries is our MC again this year. And absolutely, this is an incredible lineup the business boutique conference the first time ever we're live streaming it only 129 you can get your tickets at daveramsey.com or christywright.com or businessboutique.com any place that there's a

ramsey thing happening you'll see this happening as a possibility and again we do have a few of the in-auditorium tickets for those of you that want to escape from your state for a day or two coming up in October. Hopefully by then most of you will be open and things will be somewhat normalized. But Tennessee is one of the states that's leading the pack on that and with good results, by the way. And so, you know, we'd love to have you come visit our beautiful state. So our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code Ramsey to get the best possible deal.

Christy, our question. Yes, this comes from Abby in Indiana. This is a long one, so here we go. My husband and I have worked extremely hard to get out of debt. The only debt we have left is a little bit of my student loan debt. We've started seeing a fertility specialist in January and we stopped paying down the debt to save for treatments. So far we've been able to pay everything out of pocket. Unfortunately, it's looking like we're going to need to go the route of IVF, which is going to cost us around $15,000, which we don't have in savings at this time. We also don't have the luxury of putting a baby on hold due to our ages. Ideally, we would like to have a baby within the next year. We're both struggling with the idea of taking out credit card taking out credit to undergo IVF but there's no other option what are your thoughts on this

situation Dave this one is yours all yours you don't like thin ice do you oh my gosh this is hard this is hard it is very hard Abby um and we've answered this question and worked with families a lot in this situation over the last 30 years, and I put myself in your shoes. What would happen if I was there? And that's how I answer the questions. There's nothing more important in my life than babies have been, my three babies and the babies that they're having now.

And so it's the best thing that's ever happened to me is babies, except grandbabies. Grandbabies are even better. If I'd have known how great grandbabies are going to be, I'd have been nicer to their parents. So, yeah, it's very, very important. And this is a very emotional subject where you're dealing with infertility, and so it causes you to have the potential to go to extremes, and you are. You should do IVF, but as you know, it's not always successful. And the last thing you want to be doing is paying payments on an unsuccessful fertility treatment. It reminds you every single month when you write that check

that you're still dealing with this. And that's an emotional disaster. It's also a financial disaster. It's an emotional disaster. And so if I were in your shoes, I'd work like crazy. You can put the student loans on hold if you want, but I'm going to pile up cash. And whatever IVF program you go on, and you can do it anywhere from $7,000 to $37,000. There's all kinds of different methodologies and programs and so forth they put you on. And, you know, pay cash for whatever it is you're going to do

because you do not want to be paying payments if there's not a baby on the way. It's heartbreaking and it's double devastating. So pay cash. It's very important. I don't mind putting things on hold. Work extra jobs. Whatever you got to do. Sell your car. It's more important than a baby.

I mean, a baby's more important than a car, I mean. So whatever it takes. I'm with it. But pay cash. And you're not too old 18 months from now if you're not too old now. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Christy Wright, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today here on the Dave Ramsey Show as we answer your questions about your life and your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225.

That's 888-825-5225. Adam is with us in Birmingham. Hey, Adam, your question for Christy and me. Hey, Dave and Christy, it's an honor to speak with you both. Thank you so much for your time. Sure, sir. What's going on? Absolutely.

So as of this morning, my wife and I had around $15,000 in debt, and as of this afternoon, we have around $10,000 in debt. Yay. Big day. Yeah. So it is an exciting day. So we wrote a check. My question is we have around $27,000 in savings,

and we have a retirement of about $14,000. So I've got the cash in the bank to write a check for the other 10, which is a remaining balance on a Toyota 4Runner. The reason I'm holding back on doing that is because my third child is on the way and due next February. So that car is not big enough to cart us all around. What's the car worth? The car's worth around $24,000.

So sell it and buy a $24,000 car that will carry all of you. I agree. So let me ask you this, though. We both are at home. I run my business out of the house, and my wife's a stay-at-home mother. We really don't need two cars 99% of the time. Would it be of any benefit to just sell the car and share a driving schedule for the next five months and just pocket the cash and get top value on that car today? Or should we just go ahead and sell it and get the other car even though

we don't really need it for six more months? Well, it doesn't hurt to pocket the cash. You're also saving insurance during that time. You're also saving tags during that time and obviously operating costs during that time on a second vehicle. What's the car that you're still going to be at home with? It's a Hyundai Elantra. We own it outright, and it only has 60,000 miles on it. It's got a long life ahead of it.

And it'll take the two kids you've got miles on it so it's got a long life ahead of it and so and it'll it'll take two it'll take the two kids you got now right that's exactly right okay and so so you just what you gotta do is you gotta say all right we're debt free then right that's right under your scenario and you just have to have a game plan to pay cash for the three-kid hauler to add back to the family after, you know, probably actually in January. That's the plan. That's exactly the plan. We just weren't quite sure if it was, you know, stupid to only live off one car or if it was actually the right level of aggression to go after this. Well, it's okay either way because you can write a check and pay it off today anyway.

Have you all played out the scenario of what it would be like to just have one car? Like do you and your wife with your schedules and what you're doing, not just work but just your day-to-day life, I mean are you frequently using both cars at the same time? You just need to play this out because it may, even though your jobs may be there, just with kids' doctor's appointments and errands and groceries, I just want to make sure you're ready for that sacrifice for the next five months to only have one vehicle before you decide to do that, when you don't have to do that.

That's all I'm saying. Absolutely. No question. Yeah, so I drive about once every two weeks and conduct all my meetings over Zoom, so it's no issue for me. Really the plan we're after, just to kind of chart a bigger picture here, is we want to have our third child with zero debt and then potentially pay off our first home in the next four or five years. So by the time our oldest child is seven, we're debt-free, including the house.

And so we're trying to set ourselves up today to hit the ground running 2021 to go after that kind of extended plan of this one. Yeah, well, you could do that and pay off the Toyota 4Runner and or sell it and pay off another car of the same value. So that doesn't hurt anything. So, you know, I think you do your plan because you'll have enough in the bank to go buy a car right that's right okay so do your plan and if it doesn't work just go buy a car okay perfect or go buy a car in january if your plan works but either way you're going to buy a car sometime between now and then right that's right yeah that's exactly right yeah and so

there's no downside to giving it a shot because if you get in, you know, like you get all stressed out, it's, you know, things change and you need two cars, well, just go get a car. Yeah. They're not that hard to find, and they're, you know, you can find your car. And if you don't like it, sell it, get another one. Funny thing about cars is people get, they spend as much emotional energy buying one or letting one go as they do a

house and they're really a fairly small transaction in the scope of your life but it's like once you got a car it's like i'm stuck with it forever and part of that is because you got into debt and you can't get out of them a lot of people are upside down they're stuck in them but it's like it's hard you know i catch myself doing that even like a boat'm like, I could just sell a boat, get another boat. Yeah, it's not that big a thing. Yeah. But something about this large item moving in and out of your life, the physical presence that it has makes it a big decision.

I think it's I think it's maybe I think it's partially because you spend a lot of time in it for a lot of people. But I think also the car buying and selling experience for most people is very stressful. It's stressful to do the research. Is this going to be a lemon? Is it going to have some secret thing that's wrong with it? I think people get nervous about buying or selling their car, taking advantage of it has such a bad rap in that industry.

And so I think, yeah, they try to avoid it. But I caught myself doing that. I bought a truck. I just upgraded a truck. I sold my Raptor and bought a truck uh you know i just upgraded a truck you know i just saw my raptor and bought a truck and i didn't like it you didn't like the new truck not not today i did it last year yeah and i'm driving the thing for about three months and i'm like i hate this truck why am i driving this truck and so i just went and bought another truck and got rid of it i mean but it's like i had this thing that feels like a massive deal it felt like i can't i'm stuck with it yeah why am i stuck with it just because

i'm too stupid to sell it you know and i was just like i hate the stupid thing i'm getting rid of it and um it was and got me another raptor which i like you know so i mean it's just it was bad but it's and it was i didn't want to admit that I'd made a mistake was part of it, I think. But because Sharon didn't like the truck to start with. That really means I've made a mistake. Right. Dang it. She was right.

Dad, come on. I got to admit two or three things here at once. So but I mean, all of that stuff kind of thing. All that kind of comes into play. So Adams, Adams, he's thinking it through using good critical thinking skills and what we find folks christy and i found this in business we found it in leadership we found it in uh just about any area of life but certainly in money when you start paying attention you start making better decisions it's the it's the decisions that you are half-baked and you half but think it through that you get you know that's when you get in the stupid zone yeah and it's just amazing too

because he's run through several different scenarios and i love how you even played it out like if it works great buy the car in january if it doesn't work then buy a car before but you have options and you've played it out that's one of the things that you're really good about and i've noticed dave when you're answering questions you're not just thinking about what's the decision in front of me it's how is that going to knock down a domino of other things and i want to forecast that out and say like how do i feel about that future or that one and so um and he's doing that adam's doing that he's looking at the different scenarios he's planning ahead for this baby congratulations on your third baby and so this is yeah he's in a good spot he's doing well

christy's a three babybaby mommy. So is Rachel. That's right. And Rachel definitely went into the minivan world. I know. She could sell you a minivan. Oh, she has. She's like a little minivan salesman. You know she made me take a tour of it in her garage.

Oh, yeah, she does. She takes people on tours of her van. She was very. It's ridiculous. So she has a Honda. Her van is a Honda. She's probably put it on Instagram and done the tour. I bet she has. I'm sure she has a honda her van is a honda she's probably put it in on instagram and done the tour i bet she has i'm sure she has she has a honda and i have a honda pilot we got these

around the same time with the third row for the babies i have a honda pilot so i gave her such a hard time about the minivan and she goes through all the features of her minivan i'm like rachel my pilot does all except for the sliding doors no i don not special, Rachel. No, I don't have a vacuum, but everything else, it does it. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, but that's the thing. Americans, we have a love affair with our cars. Yeah, we do. We really do.

It's like the credit card. We get emotionally attached to it. Mm-hmm. We were just talking about that. And you move without being intentional. And Proverbs says, he who is impulsive exalts folly. Folly is the verb of a fool in action. When I am impulsive, I am a fool in action. When I'm careful, thoughtful, critical thinking skills, intentional, I'm wise, the opposite of a fool. Impulsive is a fool in action.

I have been both, so I know what they look like. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. our scripture today first corinthians 110 i appeal to you brothers by the name of our lord jesus christ that all of you agree and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be unified in the same mind and the same judgment. John Maxwell says, to collaborative team members, completing one another is more important than competing with one another. Ooh, that's good. Christy Wright is my co-host today here on The Dave Ramsey Show,

and Christy is on the line in Philadelphia. Hi, Christy, how are you? I'm great, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my husband and I have been married for two years. He's been working at a job for 25 years. We're in baby step six. So my question is, I'm trying to wrap my head around how much he should be contributing to his 401k with his match and then how much he should be putting into a Roth IRA. So his company gives him a 10% match up to 5% of his yearly salary. So I'm having trouble with the math on how much should he do there and how much should he put into a Roth on the side. Gotcha. Good question. Okay. So you're at baby step four, putting 15% of your

household income into retirement. She said six said six yeah we're actually working on baby step six we're trying to pay the house off okay well you would be putting 15 percent into retirement then total of your household income into all retirement plans combined equals 15 percent of your household income that's the plan right now everything else going on the house now the uh the does your husband's 401k have a Roth option? It does not. Okay. The equation, it's kind of a rock, paper, scissors thing,

except it only one-way wins. Okay? So match beats Roth beats traditional. So that gives you your order of attack. Take all the match you can get, which won't get you to 15 percent of your household income take all the match you can get because a hundred percent rate of return on your money is better than tax-free mathematically okay then the next thing the next best thing is tax-free, Roth. So you do a Roth on you, a Roth on him.

After you did the match, if those three things, the two Roths and the match, don't add up to 15%, then you would, in a sense, go back to the 401K and do non-matching traditional to get you up to the 15%. Okay. Did that make sense? I'm trying to wrap my head around it. Okay, so what's your household income? About $140,000. Okay.

Okay, so we're talking about $22,000, okay, that you should be putting in. All right. And so you take out of that $22,000 that needs to be going in, you say how much goes in to the match. Now, not counting the match, not counting the match, but how much money can I put in and get a match? Do you know what that is? Okay.

I don't know. I'm going to make up a number, okay? I'm going to say $6,000. I just made that up. Okay. Okay, just use this example. We're trying to get to 22. We're going to get the match with the first 6,000, right?

Okay, and so, you know, that gets us down to $16,000 that we still need to do. Okay, then you would do a couple of Roths. How old are you two? I'm 34 and he's 45. Okay, so you can do $6,000 Roths each. That's $12,000 out of the $16,000 remaining. So I've still got $4, i need to put somewhere to in my example to get up to 15 and i would i would just put an extra four thousand dollars

beyond the match into the traditional 401k to get there okay but the roth is better than the traditional 401k non-matched portion because it's tax-free growth right so that's why i'm stepping down i'm sorry that's okay so i i have a raw 401k with the company i just started for so i switched to that because you know i've been watching you for a couple months and i knew go after that because they match the same either way okay that further complicates this equation then. Oh, right. Okay, so we're still back to our, your household income is $140,000. Yes.

Okay, so we're back to our $22,000 example, and we're going to get your match and his match. And whatever's left over of the $22, 000 after we both go get our matches then we're going to put it in a roth somewhere so you're probably going to complete your 401k and two individual roths and you're probably not going to do any more at his work other than his match that's probably how the math's going to work out okay because your roth 401k you can load that up and that's the same as a regular individual roth ira except that you don't have any choices for your mutual funds but i mean the math is going to work out the same

okay so take the matches and how much is left over do two two Roths individually? Do your 401K loaded up? How much of the 140 is your income? $52,000. Okay. And so, yeah, you're probably going to get to 15% between your 401K fully done, his match, and two Roths individually with a good smart vestor pro you're probably going to get there but that's how you do it it's match is first and best next best is roth next best is traditional you're probably not going to get to his traditional non-matching

portion so it's kind of it's kind of squirrely it's kind of a barrel of fish to explain but when something grows tax-free that's awesome but if it doubled before it didn't grow tax-free you could pay the taxes and still have more money when when do you tell people to invest more than do you ever tell people to invest more than 15 when you finish baby step six and you're in baby step seven so when okay you max out everything that you can keep the government's hands off. So then you do all the traditional, all the Roth, all the matches, anything you can do to keep the government's hands off the money. It's growing either tax-deferred or tax-free, all you can. I max out everything I can. I fill up my HSA to keep the government because it's tax-free.

I use it like it's a retirement account because I don't even use the money for the HSA to keep the government because it's taxed tax free. Yeah, I can use it like it's a retirement account because I don't even use the money for the HSA. If I have a small deductible hit, I just write a check for it. I let the HSA grow like it's a retirement account. Yeah. So I've got several hundred thousand dollars in my stinking HSA because I did. I did it the very first year they allowed us to do it because anything you can do when you're in baby step 70, just completely max out and again do that

that's that's the most efficient way to grow your investments and then after that the only thing you can do are low turnover mutual funds where you've got a capital gains growth or real estate where you got a capital gains growth now you're not paying the taxes on the growth till you cash it out but it's not tax it's not actually tax-treated other than that. So if something goes up in value, you don't pay taxes on it until you cash it out. And that's the capital gains direction. But, again, that's all Baby Step 7 stuff. When you're on Baby Steps 4, 5, 6, at the same time,

you're limiting your investing to 15% so that you can do your kid's college, so that you can pay extra on the house and get it done. And our average person walking these steps is paying off their home in about seven years and the average millionaire that we interviewed is paying paid off their home some of them knew us some of them didn't in 10.3 years if they knew us 11.2 if they didn't know us wow so as we did that study for hogan's book everyday millionaires uh so getting the home paid off in our decade or so it is a big part of your first layer of millions of wealth building your first one to five million and and so that comes into play there as well so again it's rock paper scissors except only one way wins um and uh, it's rock, paper, scissors, except only one way wins, meaning it's match beats Roth beats traditional.

So you go down that list until you get to 15%, depending on what is available to you. Hey, good show, Christy. This is great. Thanks for having me on. This is fun. Check out ChristyWright.com, BusinessBoutique.com, and DaveRamsey.com for a live stream. Went on sale today for the Business Boutique event in

October. We'd love to have you join us there. It's $129. It's the first time we've ever live streamed that. Tis the season, though. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

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