The Ramsey Show - App - Shouldn’t I Invest Instead of Paying Off My House? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: September 14, 2022

Take our Audience Survey & Enter to Win a $500 Visa Gift Card: Click here to take the survey Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: Paying off the mortgage vs. investing, Hesitancy to cut up credit cards and use only debit, When it makes sense to buy a house, Paying off credit card debt. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Pods Moving and Storage Studio, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author,

host of The Ken Coleman Show, where he talks about getting the job that you love, making the money that you should make, and all things jobs and career. And if you've got questions about that, jump in. He's here to help. And we're going to talk about your life and your money. It's what we always do. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Dan is in Scranton, Pennsylvania.

Hi, Dan. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hello, Dave and crew. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So here's my situation. I'm 61 years old.

I'm going to be 62 in January. I'll be retiring from corporate America. I'm married 42 years. I purchased a home in Pennsylvania this past April while my New York home was up for sale. And for that Pennsylvania home, I got a 30-year variable rate mortgage for $495,000. And it's currently fixed at 2.8 percent for the next 10 years with a payment of $2,700 a month. I sold my New York home shortly after I closed on the PA home. So my question is, should I take the $500,000 from the sale of my New York home and pay off the Pennsylvania mortgage or should I invest that $500,000 in a managed Fidelity Vanguard or some other index fund and use that interest on the $500,000 to pay off the PA home at least for the next 10 years and then reassess the situation?

Because I have no debt other than that PA mortgage. My wife and I should be bringing home about $11,000 a month when we retire as I have a pension and I got $1.1 million in my 401k, which is mostly sitting in cash money market now. Why? What should I do? Why is it in cash and money markets? Well, you know, I've had invested in index funds for 25 years,

and I've done well that way. And they're on sale right now. I'm nervous. I mean, had I had that in there where my market's losing 20 this year so that's what scared me uh i i dabbled back in about a month ago i put the 300 000 into the market again split it in index funds small medium large uh cap index funds 33 and a third so i i don't know i think the market's on hey i'm your age. I think the market's on. Hey, I'm your age, and I think the market's on sale. I haven't taken any out, and I'm putting money in.

I think it's a good buy right now. So you can do what you want to do, but I wouldn't have a million ones sitting on the sidelines making no money. That'd drive me nuts. Now, what about the mortgage? I'd pay it off tomorrow. And not use the interest on that. You've asked this question suggesting the answer six times,

and so you really don't want to pay off the mortgage. You really want to invest it. But let me tell you why I'm telling you to pay it off. In our study of 10,000 millionaires that are sitting about where you're sitting, the vast majority of them were between $1 and $3 million net worth, which is exactly where you're sitting. We did not find any of them that said, not one, not a single one, that said the way I became a millionaire was borrowing on my home

to invest in the stock market. None of them said that. And effectively, that is your question, isn't it? Yes, exactly. Should I borrow on my home at 2.8% and invest in index funds? Oh, wait, I've got a million-one on the sidelines because I'm scared of the market, and I don't think it's going to do that well. You're talking out of both sides of your mouth.

You answered my question. Hey, Dan, listen listen here's the thing uh if i were in your shoes and i and i am in the sense that we're about the same age i would be 100 debt free and i'd get back in the market uh with the other money and you're going to have a great life the sense of peace that you have when you have zero debt is not definable with mathematics and you've worked your butt off and you have done a great job of building a high quality retirement dude you're a stud you have killed this and i'm well i've used your principles. I've been putting 13% of my salary away for 28 years. And you're a baby steps millionaire, an everyday millionaire.

Nobody gave you any money. You're the guy that got up, left the cave, killed something, and dragged it home. You showed up at work when you didn't feel like it and got stuff done. You got grit. You're that guy. That's how you got where you are i know that about you because i can tell i can see it in the numbers you don't get where you are being a melting snowflake okay you get where you are grinding and and and showing up and being a man

of honor and a man of duty and that that's who you are am i wrong wrong? That's what I did. Yeah. And so it wasn't fancy and it wasn't sexy and all your get-rich-quick friends thought you were slow. But you weren't slow. You kicked all of them's butt. Because here you sit with probably about a $2 million net worth, give or take. And you did it, man. So I want you to enjoy this season where you've lived like no one else you've paid a price now you get to live and give like no one else and not having a mortgage while you're on vacation somewhere around the world with your wife enjoying your 42 years of marriage um it's

it's a different thing man and i want that for you i want that sense of peace that sense of power um we don't need to arbitrage your home we don't need to leverage your home for you to win you won you already won yeah and i love the advice that you give because i just walked through that scenario and he's got a house that's right at uh he didn't tell us he told us what the mortgage is it's probably worth more than the 495 way more that. And so now all of a sudden, with having no debt, you have this asset that's extremely valuable. If you need to liquidate, it's there. Not to mention he's invested, you know, and he's done so much. No, he's not going to need it. But that's the whole idea is not carry the debt at all. This idea of, well, I'm going to pay my mortgage off with the interest. What's the temptation to follow that?

You're going to have $20,000. He what's the temptation to follow that you're going to have 20 he's got 11 000 already coming in when he puts that million one to work and creates another 10 15 000 bucks a month yeah he's gonna have 20 25 000 a month to live on and have no payments this sounds like a good life to me i like your life it sounds like the american dream and i'm proud of you i'm proud of you man he's he's who we're trying to get people to be 100 he's the poster child yeah yeah well neither one of us are children anymore but yeah it's a poster something it's a metaphor we're poster somethings ken but we're not sure which you guys are young still i think you got to get to 80 85 before you

can call yourself old in today's world just the older i get the older my grandpa when he was 80 he kept talking about this guy down the street he said that old man and i'm like grandpa you're 80 he goes yeah but he's older than me he's an old man so it's true no matter how old you get somebody older hopefully well at some point you run out of candidates though listen that guy dan dan you're a stud man i'm so proud of you and i would just enjoy this and uh don't overthink it you didn't get here by overthinking it you got here by executing steady rhythm you stuck with it the grit that's how you got here just keep doing that not by trying to get fancy this is the ramsey show Rhythm. You stuck with it. The grit. That's how you got here. Just keep doing that.

Not by trying to get fancy. This is The Ramsey Show. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225 guys we really value the input from people who watch and listen to the Ramsey Show. It helps us know what's important to you, what you like, and the things that we want to change and can change based on your input. We will. And we love hearing from you. We're doing a survey right now. It only takes a few minutes.

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RamseySolutions.com slash survey. Kyle is with us in Montgomery, Alabama. Hey, Kyle, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, Ken. Thanks for taking my call today. Sure. What's up? Well, my wife and I found the Baby Steps about four years ago, and we were fortunate enough to start on Baby Step 3. Since then, we've taught FPU two times, but we are still hesitant to cut up the credit cards and close the accounts. We have that fear of fraudulent debit card purchases. And I've heard you talk about it before in the past, about the protections between debit and credit cards. In my own research, following hearing those episodes,

I have looked into it and found anecdotal evidence that people suffer when their debit cards get misused and then the banks take a while or they may try to refuse the refunds by those fraudulent charges. Do you have any input or any other protections out there that you would suggest that help prevent those to help us get over that fear and stop using credit cards? Yeah. First, I would tell you that if you don't get over the fear, you should not lead Financial Peace University because we're telling people to quit using credit cards and you leading the class are still using them as hypocritical. So that's not good for you.

It's not good for the people in the class. So if you can't deal with this issue, I understand. I'm not going to be mad at you, but it's inconsistent for when the cornerstone of the class is to get rid of all debt so that you can become wealthy so let's set that on the table first secondly absolutely i understand yeah secondly i carry debit cards um and i have used them literally all over the world i don't own a single credit card um and i have had fraudulent transactions. I've had lots of scares, lots of shutdowns, lots of reverse charges.

I have never had a bank hold money on me. And my point is I'm probably more exposed to fraud than the average person because I travel so much and I do so many different kinds of transactions. And we run all of Ramsey Solutions, a $300 million company, with debit cards. The company doesn't have any credit cards. And so, you know, I've got like several hundred people that work on the team that carry a Ramsey debit card. So we've got massive exposure to what you're talking about. And our practical experience is it is so rare that something takes more than 24, 48 hours to get refunded

that it's, you know, it's there. Now, if you're buying something for an amount of money, that if that amount of money doesn't get returned to you in 48 hours destroys your life that says you shouldn't be buying something like that mathematically and so there's another level of lack of wisdom that's involved in some of those stories that you find in the deep, dark recesses of the Internet in your research that you've done. But the practical fact is we see so little misbehavior by banks or stress put on people by this that the offset of –

now, I will tell you this. The people that use credit cards and pay them off every month, 78% don't pay them off every month. So someone's lying about paying them off every month. Because when you talk to people, they all say they pay them off every month, and nobody does. And so, you know, the number of people that fall into the trap of getting screwed over by the use of credit cards versus fall into the trap of having their life considerably offset by a delayed refund in the rare event of a fraudulent transaction that actually does cost you money and how long does it take to get back in your account is uh you know

the the numbers don't even stay i mean it's a bazillion times more on credit cards that lives are destroyed and messed up than they are by somebody not getting a fraud refund on a debit card. And so the trade-off is not even close. Yeah, there is a reality that that can happen, and it does happen on occasion, but it is not a frequent thing. I'm giving you a set example that I literally have hundreds of debit cards. Yeah, I think the data will show you, Kyle, and I think you've done enough research to know

that the numbers would tell you that it's an irritation, this fear that you have, not a devastation. And there's two things you could do. You ask, what could you do? If you don't have identity theft of Xander Insurance, Stacey and I have that. Everybody at Ramsey Solutions does. Identity theft protection is going to help you there and could you do if you don't have identity theft of xander insurance stacy and i have that everybody at ramsey solutions does identity theft protection is going to help you there and protect you and then i will tell you i'm not going to endorse any bank but our personal bank they're so good with their security that sometimes if stacy and i are out of state and we forget to tell them we're going somewhere we just go to dinner and it'll hit send me a text your card was just charged your debit card was charged at this restaurant are you there you know are you in cabo is it you yes yes i am as a matter of fact it happened and so um i think

you've created a boogeyman that really doesn't exist lurking around every corner does it happen yes is it is it devastating the number of times that the number of times that it is an actual serious financial problem to a family versus the number of times a it is an actual serious financial problem to a family versus the number of times a credit card is an actual serious financial problem to a credit card is one-tenth of one percent these notes they don't even they don't even line up they're not even close they're not in the same stratosphere of the damage one does versus the damage another does yeah not even close and so the trade-off is just not worth it on this one issue because debit cards have a 100% fraud protection. That's correct.

If it is fraud, the bank has to refund it. That is Visa's policy. It is MasterCard's policy. It is in there. It's a zero liability policy. You can read it in their own stuff. And so the people that say, and he's not saying this, but the people that say, well, credit cards have fraud protection. Debit cards don't.

That's not true. It's just not true. He's not saying that, by people that say well credit cards have fraud protection debit cards don't that's not true it's just not true he's not saying that by the way but um to his credit but the uh but but so for those of you out there your debit card has the exact same fraud protection your credit card has what he's referring to is if you uh went online and bought something with your debit card and it was no if someone someone stole your identity and used your account or they picked up your card number off a false reader or something on an eight one of these rip off atm machine things and they take your card and they go buy something with it and it shows up in your account and it's 200 bucks the it does 200 does come out of your account out of your checking account. And then you report the fraud and the bank has to put it back.

And the number of times that that causes disaster on a family is almost zero because a banks put it back really, really fast. And B, you shouldn't be using any financial transaction that if it goes sideways, destroys your life. That's correct period now i'll tell you what does happen and then people use this to whine about this as a justification rationalization for using their credit cards and this is not kyle but i hear it all the time for people that are me and keep my credit card and we keep one open said because when i travel they put a hold so when you check into a hotel all right the one we were staying in the other night i didn't use my card because we were doing a corporate thing.

We're out there, and an account was set up with Omni. But if I go check into an Omni or whatever by myself with Sharon and me, they'll put a hold on your account for the amount. So $400 a night, $300 a night, whatever it is, right? They're going to put a hold on that, and it might be a day or two before it comes off. But listen, if you can't afford a $200 three or four hundred dollar hold on your account then you can't afford to stay in that hotel you should be at home working that's you know these are the things you need to think about and but they're like yeah well they took that two hundred dollars down i can't it took three days two days. Harmony took the hold off of it. But that sometimes does happen.

Yeah. But you don't need to be doing stuff that you can't afford. That's the other thing. So it's up to you, Kyle. You get to decide, man. But the trade-off for me is obvious. It's a minor irritation versus the damage that credit cards have done to American families for decades. This is The Ramsey Personality, bestselling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose,

is my co-host today as we talk to you about your careers, your jobs, your life, and your money. Jump in if you want to talk. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Christopher is with us. He is in St. Cloud, Minnesota. Hi, Christopher. How are you? I'm doing pretty good.

Hey, I'll just start with my question first. Considering my situation, should I buy a house? Now, with that being said, my current situation, I'm currently a nurse, a new nurse that I graduated with my associate's degree this past spring. And I'm also a student finishing my RN to BSN and I'm also a landlord. Um, and so I'm kind of like, you know, with all these things at play, you know, we're working part time and in my situation, should I buy a a house and i know that's on a whole ton of information that's okay i got you so so you're you're how old i'm 22 and you make how much money uh gross right now being part-time it's about 3600 okay so you're finishing up school right now correct yep i'm doing the rn the bsn I'm currently a registered nurse but it's a wonderful

career path um now I would concentrate on that I don't want you to get distracted I want you to finish school sure so do that how are you a landlord well I bought a house with my brother in 2018 and we've rented it out ever since and it's all paid for so you were 18 years old correct we bought it for well a little background i used to do construction before nursing and so we bought a house for like 31 000 fixed it up and then rented it out what would it sell for probably right right now $110,000 and being in that location. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Hmm. If you didn't own it, would you buy it right now? No, probably not. Why don't you all sell it? Because we're renting it right now, I guess. It's a single family? Yeah, a single family home home so when's the lease up uh it would be i think in december if i remember correctly okay i would consider putting that house

on the market after the first year and getting rid of it here's the thing i don't think that house although it was a neat experiment for you and experience to do that at 18 years old i don't think that house is the secret sauce to your future nor is home ownership at 22 the secret sauce to your future i think the secret sauce to your future is you finishing this nursing path that you are on you are going to have tremendous opportunity to make a lot of money and stay steadily employed the rest of your life as long as you want to be a nurse. I mean, this is an incredible field. There's such a shortage, and, Ken, the upside's really strong. There's a lot of upside for you as a nurse, even if you want to go beyond that after a while.

And I would agree with Dave here. The houses are still going to be there. You're 22. You've got this investment property that you could absolutely sell, take your portion of the profit, and that becomes a part of your down payment. But I wouldn't be in any kind of rush. I'd get through school. Let's get in nursing. Let's get settled. Let's get our sights on where we want to go within nursing, what that mountaintop looks like. The houses will be there. Sometimes, Christopher, people miss achieving a major goal in their life not because the goal

was hard but because they got distracted and added too many other things on their plate and that and home ownership and landlording and all that other crap while you're just trying to get through school i'm trying to clean up your plate and just say focus on what really matters what the real goal is and these other things could just be devilish distractions evan is with us in albany new york hi evan how are you hey guys how you doing better than we deserve sir how can we help yeah so um me and my dad well he owns a business i've been i've been only working here for two years now but he's he's been relapsing over the past year. Relapsing?

Relapsing, sorry. In what way? In a drinking problem way. Okay, so he's an alcoholic, and he's back in the bottle. We're trying to run the business. Yep. Wow. I'm sorry.

What's the business? Say again, sir? What's the business? Say again, sir? What is the business? Yeah, it's a pest control business. Pest control? And how old are you? I'm 20. And how many employees does he have?

Almost 40. And you're 20. How long has your dad been drinking? On and off for the past 15, 20 years. Your whole life? Yeah. And you've been running around trying to clean up his messes your whole life? I'm sorry.

I'm sorry. That's hard. So what's your question, Evan? I'm sorry. That's hard. So what's your question, Evan? I'm just, well, the bottom line is pretty much like, how do I get him back to work? He's kind of bedridden right now. Yeah. Your mom gone?

Divorced. Divorced. Yeah. No kidding. Not shocking. Okay. on um divorce divorce yeah no kidding not shocking okay um has he put you in a leadership position or are you just one of the employees who happens to be his son what kind of responsibility do you have for the business um i i do have some responsibility there i'm one of the managers of my with budget and advertising and billing.

We have five other managers who thank God know what they're doing and are very good. Okay, so the business is doing well despite his absence. Evan, let me tell you. Let's just stop. The advice I'm going to give you is going to be very hard to hear. Are you ready

to hear it? Yep. Okay. There's a whole syndrome around adult children of alcoholics you can look it up and start reading about the symptoms of an adult child that grew up in an alcoholic home and one of the things that we see, folks that grow up like you've grown up, is you've seen so much pain and there's so much disaster in the wake of all the alcoholism that you feel like your job is always to clean up the messes. And that's a standard reaction to this situation um if you were uh my little brother if you were my nephew if if if you and i could sit down together and a cup of coffee i could put my arm around you give you a hug i would right now and i would tell you that it's time for you to stop saving your father he's going to have to do that himself you can do that as a loving son from a distance

but if i were you i would go get a job somewhere else and build a life somewhere else and from a position of strength emotionally and spiritually begin to do some healing from what all you've been through and from that position of strength maybe you can give your dad a little bit of aid with his alcoholism but it is not your job evan at 20 years old to save your dad from the mess that he has made for the last 15 years and that includes his screwed up business life you don't have that it's not your job i want to set you free from that assignment it is not your assignment run please run for your sake you know i i don't know if you'll do that or not. I don't know if

you can hear me say this or not, but you need to be free of this. And it doesn't mean you never speak to your dad again. It doesn't mean you're mean to your dad. It doesn't mean you're unkind to him or that you yell at him because he's destroyed everything with his drinking. I'm not telling you to do any of that. I'm just saying you have to have some separation and go get some healing on your own. Because, dude, what you have lived through as a child is wounding. And, you know, one of the biggest symptoms is that adult children of alcoholics have to have everything perfect. They have to have everything perfect because their job was to keep up appearances because dad's laying in bed drunk and so my job is to go down and run the business as if he's not and it's it's a form of denial

and it comes out specifically in this and i'm not a psychologist dr john deloney you might want to talk to him uh i'll put you on hold kelly i'll set up time talk to him on the air if you want he'll tell you the same thing i'm telling you though you've got to have some separation from this situation in order to be of assistance to your dad and it's not your job young man to fix all this be free it's not your job to fix this you didn't break it it is not your duty to fix it and you're not a bad son by walking away from this. The best thing you can do for you and for your dad is to walk away from this. And then you can give him aid as a loving son from a little more distance in a position of healing.

Please go work somewhere else. This is the Ramsey show. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, 1 Peter 1.13, Therefore, prepare your minds for action. Keep sober in spirit. Fix your hope completely on the grace to be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Mark Spitz said, if you fail to prepare, you're prepared to fail. That's a name I haven't heard in a while. Yeah. Mark Spitz.

Olympic swimmer? Yes. Is that right? Okay. Wow. That was challenging. Multiple, multiple, multiple gold medals. Before there was Michael Phelps. Yeah.

He was the guy. All right, all right. He was the guy. Wow, that's a long time ago, though. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Kay is in Raleigh, North Carolina. Hi, Kay. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Hi. Thanks, Dave. Going along with the theme here today, I think of car questions. We have gotten ourselves into have a lot of stuff that we're selling. My husband's income is getting ready to go up in December and he's also getting ready to get quite a few bonuses in the next couple of months. And I'm wondering if we could wait for some of that stuff to happen and continue to be gazelle intense before we think about selling one of our cars or if we should just do it now and then, you know, whenever that extra money comes in, I guess it's just extra money. Okay.

Why are you selling the car? To pay off the credit card debt. Oh, I see. Okay. to pay off the credit card debt oh i see okay so what what is the car the cars worth what are they worth we have a um like a classic sports car that's paid off that probably right now is worth about thirty thousand dollars um my. And he drives that? He actually, yes, quite a bit. I mean, it's not a daily driver. Oh, so it's a third car. It's a third car.

It's a third car, yes. Okay, so you have a $30,000 third car, and the second car is what? What is it worth? It's worth probably right now about $35,000 to $40,000, and it's paid off. Okay. And what's the next car? The next car is we do have a loan on that for $30,000, and it's probably worth right now about $40,000. Okay.

And so it sounds like you have $110,000 worth of vehicles. Yes. And what is your household income? It's about $160,000, and by the end of the year, it should be about $200,000. Okay. Well, I mean, the rule of thumb that we use is to not have too much tied up in things that are going down in value and our definition of that is when you have more than 50 percent of your household income tied up in things with wheels and motors then you've got too much tied up in things that are going down in values makes it mathematically hard to get ahead you are you guys are car poor for sure now if you got

110 000 worth of cars or 100 000 worth of cars,000, you're right on the bubble on that. Okay? So, no, I would not sell those cars based on that formula. The other formula we look at is can you be debt-free except the house if you keep all of these things in 24 months? So you have $50,000 in credit card debt and you have $30,000 in car debt. That's $80,000. What other debt do you have not counting your house? Nothing.

Okay. So can you pay off $80,000 in 24 months? Yeah, you probably can. So if you love these cars, I would keep them. But I also want you guys to look at each other and go, we were right on the bubble on stupid and we don't need to get up on this bubble again okay because you don't get rich buying cars no and you guys have invested a large chunk of your lives in cars and so they're right on the

bubble and if you love all three of the cars you want to hold them you're going to be in a position shortly to have kept them and that makes sense mathematically but you really have to address um your addiction to automobiles because you're going to struggle if you don't that that's the whole process so um hey but you're you're right there i i'm with you i would probably keep them and i'd probably pay them all off but the only caveat is just go you know if we hadn't had these big raises we'd be selling some stuff oh yeah and they're still gonna have to hustle they're gonna have to get after this you know i i like classic cars in this situation i was very i was i was surprised a little bit not at philosophy, but I'd move one of those cars. If the classic car means a lot to the guy, I would downgrade in my everyday driver to be able to pay off the classic car.

That's me. But I want to fast forward everything. I don't want to struggle when I make one transaction. You've got $80,000 and you've got 24 months. So you're going to do beans and rice in order to keep these cars. Is it really worth it? To me, it's not. What happens a lot of times is when people get into that, they get about six months into it and they go, screw it, sell the car.

That's right. You're right. They end up at that conclusion. Because right now in this conversation, we love these cars. Oh, yeah. But once you start figuring out, this is killing me. I'm having to live on nothing. I make $200,000 a year and I'm living on nothing.

These cars own me. Yeah. And you'll dump one of them then. I agree. That's what will happen. It doesn't always happen, but it can. It can. Up next is James in Knoxville.

Hi, James. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I have a camper that I have been going back and forth with my wife on. I feel like we should sell the camper. I don't feel like it is a bill that we need to keep paying on every month. How much do you owe on it? It's about $25,000. What will it sell for?

Man, prices have gone up on everything. I think I could probably get $35,000. What will it sell for? Man, prices have gone up on everything. I think I could probably get $35,000 for it. Okay. And what's your household income? $65,000. Sell the camper. That's what I feel like, but trying to convince my wife is a bit tough. Yeah.

With what you're spending on this camper, you can stay in the freaking Ritz. Yeah. Yeah, and they'll let you sleep in a sleeping bag out on the balcony if you want it'll make you feel better i don't think that's true and the other thing too is you know you got to pay for uh you know diesel fuel to get where you're going you gotta pay to stay that i feel like it's stupid you are you are paying ritz money for camping. But why does she love it? Why do you think? If she hasn't articulated it, what do you think is the reason she doesn't want to sell it? Well, we talked about it last night, actually. She feels like, you know, our kids are young.

And if we sell this camper, and we don't have any other debt besides this camper and our mortgage. So, you know, if we get rid of this, I think she feels like she's missing out on, I don't know. Totally get it. All right. So what's your monthly payment to the camper right now? About $425. Yeah.

Cast another vision at $425 a month. That's going to be memory after memory after memory, but zero stress. I just think you've got to replace her feelings i understand what she's feeling i think she's right doing stuff with the kids would be really cool and for 400 bucks a month you can do a lot and just replace the camper with another vision yeah where are we going to go i mean go stay in some rustic cabins go do some stuff that other people own and you don't have to screw with it and then sit in the backyard going down in value and um and it's not it's the only big payment you have and so um yeah you guys you guys didn't buy a camper you bought a dream of family time while

the kids are little and doing stuff so go live that dream kens right a different way and uh that doesn't involve owning the stupid thing um and i'm not against campers but honestly a $25,000 camper when your household income is 60 000 is out of control that's just that's a lot of money uh and so i wouldn't do that i just i wouldn't do it i mean i i you're you're better off to just spend the money on hotels spend the money on rustic cabins whatever you want to call it whatever the adventure is but go on different adventures that are with a similar amount of money being spent and um that that are accomplishing the goal that she wants to accomplish i'm not arguing with her goal i think her goal is valid yes well

she's a mama and they they want to have some great memories and you can do that and i think you should yeah we've done a lot of stuff with our kids as they were growing up and it's that you know some of those stories they still talk about them as adults, the stuff we did when they were little. And, yeah, you've got to drag them around and make them uncomfortable. That's part of the program. I think you should get the whole family really nice sleeping bags and try that Ritz plan that Dave's talking about.

I want to see how that works out. Come on, kids, we're going to the Ritz balcony. All right. All right, smart aleck. Ken Coleman, James, Ben, Zach, and Austin and Kelly in the booth. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Dave here. We just launched

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