The Ramsey Show - App - Some Say Millennials Can't Handle Money (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 10, 2018

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. You know, if you had asked me just a few years back if I would end up becoming one of the strongest voices in America defending skinny jeans wearing millennials, I would have been shocked.

But I got to tell you, I'm about sick of the press picking on these millennials. I have got, and I know some of you people, you know, it's like people picking on teenagers all the time, you know. And I know millennials aren't teenagers. I'm not saying that. But they just pick out a group of people and they say, okay, these millennials are all entitled. None of them work um you know they all live in their mother's basement and there's a percentage that do stuff like that

but i gotta tell you i work with a lot of millennials i've got an office full of them we got 600 and something people working here and probably the average age in the place is at 30 or below i got a ton of these tech developers and creatives and marketers and um i as an employer i find the millennial generation to be one of the best and easiest to hire out of because when you're interviewing there's only two kinds they're awesome or they suck. And they come in and they go, I'm worthless. I don't want to work. I want you to give me everything.

And you can tell them, they'll tell you that in the interview. And of course, we don't hire them. Or they come in and they go, just give me a cause. I'll do anything to win. If you're helping people, we will. But they are such a cause-driven generation. And they're not all irresponsible and not all ridiculous and not all – and really, I don't know what the percentages are. And maybe I'm just exposed to so many good ones.

But I don't think that half of this generation – I've got to tell you, I'm a baby boomer, and I think the baby boomers were a much worse generation in a lot of ways. And they were worse with money. Millennials, or even the irresponsible ones, at least know what they want to do with their money, and they do it on purpose. Sometimes it's stupid, but they're at least doing it on purpose. And so I've gotten where I resent these articles.

Two or three people sent me this this week.. Two or three people sent me this this week. Maybe four or five people sent me this this week. Some of them friends just emailed me, Dave, you've got to see this marketwatch.com. Millennials want luxury sheets, exercise bikes, and music festival tickets, but they don't always have enough cash or a desire to put them on a credit card, so they're turning to an even more expensive method of payment financing. In recent years, like credit cards aren't financing.

How stupid are you, MarketWatch? In recent years, payment companies, including PayPal, Affirm, and Bread, have created installment plans for retailers that give consumers the option to finance the weirdest purchases over time. Now, let me just tell you, I've been doing this show 25 years. When I started this show, there were no credit cards accepted in grocery stores, and no fast food places accepted credit cards. To me, when you started being able to buy a Whopper on a piece of plastic or finance your beer on a credit card at the

Publix, to me, that was a weird purchase. I don't know why I don't think music festival tickets are any different or exercise bike tickets or buying an exercise bike is any different. Just put that on the credit card. What's different? It's stupid. It's crud. But, I mean, why is that a uniquely millennial disease?

These payment methods have taken hold at a time when millennials have been more reluctant than their parents to use credit cards. Millennials had about two credit cards each on average last year, according to credit reporting company Experian, which is God in a box, apparently. That's compared with about three for boomers and an average of two and a half for Generation X. And now they don't have to wait to be able to afford that Vitamix blender. I have a Vitamix blender. I resent that. What could go wrong? Quite a lot, consumer advocates say. The company Brooklinen sells pricey sheets. Its classic sheet set sells for queen-size beds, costs $129. But that can be steep for millennials. Well, duh.

It can be steep for a lot of people. This is just a crappy article. MarketWatch, you just dropped the ball. You're trying to say that millennials are using bad methods of financing to buy sheets and Vitamix and exercise bikes and music festival tickets like this is a new human disease that's unique to millennials. Every generation has bought stupid stuff they couldn't afford and borrowed money to do it in stupid ways. It's not a millennial disease. It's a stupid people disease. And there's stupid people in every generation.

There's nothing evil about a Vitamix. There's nothing evil about music festival tickets. And there's nothing evil about $129 sheets. That's just ridiculous. What's stupid is when people that are broke buy that kind of stuff. Vitamix blender. I bought one the other day. It's like $400 and something. My wife, she puts everything in that thing.

It's gross, the stuff she puts in there. But it looks like toxic waste when she gets it blended up. It's like a whole meal in there and it shouldn't be blended together that should only happen in your stomach you know but she does this toxic waste but it's it requires an expensive blender to do this but i've got the money to buy a $400 blender but if you're broke and you're 54 or you're 24 you shouldn't buy a vitamix it's a four it's the freaking bentley of blenders really you shouldn't buy that so what what's new why is this a millennial it's not a millennial thing market watch you screwed up

and you're dissing these people and you don't know you you snotty with your glasses down on the end of your financial nose wagging your finger at a younger generation like you've got your crap together and you don't you're still paying on your student loan while you're writing this article from journalism school and and thumb in your nose at other people this is just wrong it's just wrong listen if you're a millennial or if you're not and you don't't have $129 in cash, you should not buy $129 sheets. Hello. Why was that hard? That's not hard.

But this is not a millennial disease. I mean, you don't have to have a long beard and skinny jeans to do stupid stuff. It's not required. Lots of people do stupid stuff that don't look near that cool, you know? You don't have to have random tattoos to do stupid stuff. Lots of people don't have random tattoos that do lots of stupid stuff. You don't have to have, name it, whatever. You don't have to be bald and old and fat to do it.

It's a human disease to buy stuff in America that you can't afford with money you don't have to impress people you don't really like. And so, I'm sorry, I'm not jumping on the we hate millennials bandwagon. And I don't know how I ended up being the one speaking out on behalf of millennials, but I guess I am. That's the strangest mix of things you could ever think of right there. But I guess because I got a lot of them around me that are awesome. I guess that's it. Including my own kids.

So shut up. Seriously. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs. Christian Health Care Ministries is the original health cost-sharing ministry.

A Better Business Bureau-accredited organization, CHM members share to pay each other's medical bills. It's not insurance. It's Christians financially and spiritually supporting each other. It's what Christian Healthcare Ministries has done for over 35 years, and our members have shared over $2.5 billion in medical bills. To learn more, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you are here. Samantha is with us in St. Petersburg, Florida.

Hi, Samantha. How are you? Good. How are you, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? I was just wondering, I'm looking to get some term life insurance, and I was looking on Zander Insurance like you recommend, but there are so many companies to choose from, and I'm not really sure what I'm supposed to look for besides 10 to 12 times our income. Okay. Well, once you've got the amount selected and the length of time that you want the term for, 15 or 20 years selected, then you're comparing apples to apples across companies.

The primary thing I look at is price on Zander's site. Zander won't put a substandard company in their database. And so you're not going to get a weak, a financially weak company showing up on Zander's database. Now, in the life insurance world, there are ratings having to do with the financial strength of the company. Okay? And for instance, one of the rating services is called AM Best. that's the name of the company am best and you'll have an am best rating of a plus a a minus b plus b minus so on down the list

like like your grade school card grade card okay and um if you were doing cash value policies which of course we don't recommend where you actually have money inside of the policy as an investment, and you've got $30,000 or $40,000 laying inside of there, you're a lot more concerned with that company failing. No, I'm definitely not looking into that. I'm looking for term life insurance. So my point is that there's two things to look at, price and if the company's going to fold up on you. Okay?

Okay. And if it's a B minus or above, the likelihood of it folding up on you on a term policy is almost zero. And if it did fold up on you, almost every state has insurance reserves that the companies pay into to cover claims. Let's say you died just as the company went bankrupt. A lot of states have reserve funds that pay those claims or portions of those claims. So you're pretty safe even if they fold up. But just to avoid having one that folds up, stay above a B-minus, and you'll be all right. I wouldn't buy anything in the c range but almost everything you see on xander if you look at the ratings will be a a minus

a plus somewhere in there and then it's down to just price okay they're all the same after that and so if you think about this way it's kind of like your car insurance when you buy car insurance you don't worry about the financial strength of the company you if it's a reasonably named company you kind of assume they can pay the claim you know i never looked up the am best rating on my car insurance company i wasn't worried about it because i don't have any money invested with them the only downside is if they don't pay the claim because they're broke and that's that's a fairly small risk and that would be a very unusual you'd have to have a wreck just as they file bankruptcy i

mean the timing would have to be horrendous uh you know and that kind of see just don't worry about that that much but it's the only other thing you can gauge it by other than price assuming you've got the length of time and the dollar amount apples to apples once you've got all of that i just pick price and so again jeff zander's a friend of time and the dollar amount, apples to apples. Once you've got all of that, I just pick price. And so, again, Jeff Zander is a friend of mine, and I've known him for 20 years. So when I get ready to buy some term life insurance, which I'm buying something to cover a project right now that we're working on, he and I are working on the deal right this second. And when we're shopping that, we're looking and going, you know, I'm assuming it's a reasonably strong company,

and then who's going to give me the best deal? It's down to price. It's a price competition then. And that's the beauty of the term insurance world today because that sense of commoditized, the pricing has just been commoditized, meaning people are buying it all on price, and that competition is driving these prices down. Term insurance is cheaper now than it's ever been in the history of the world.

It's the best buy ever today. Good question. Thanks for calling in. Something different to talk about. Derek's with us in Philadelphia. Hi, Derek. How are you? Hey, Dave.

I'm doing great. I'm a millennial, and thank you for standing up for us. I think I turned out okay, and so I really appreciate it. You're going to make it, huh? I'm glad. How can I help today? Yeah, so my question, we spoke a couple months ago, and I had sold a condo you told me to get rid of, which was great, and got rid of all of our debt,

and we're going to be finished here with Baby Step 3 in a couple months. Good for you. Well done. Thanks to you. So my question is around 4, 5, and 6. I feel like we're in pretty good shape as far as step four. I've been investing early ever since I started working. And so baby step five and six around the child education and paying off the mortgage.

I was leaning towards paying off the mortgage or trying to get that done before the kids go to college. Or if we stick to the plan, how much should I be contributing to baby step number five? I know it's not really clear in the book. Yeah, we try not to make it clear because there's so many different ways to get at it. I just want people paying attention to their kid's college. And so if you're paying attention to it, usually you're going to do something relatively smart. So there's two ends of the spectrum, and you can land anywhere between those two in number one of the spectrum is pay nothing extra on the house until you get the college funds completely loaded up to enough that they're going to grow to enough to cover the kid so you got a

three-year-old it's not going to take maybe 20 grand 25 grand or something over the next two or three years is going to you'll be done with college it'll grow over the next two or three years is going to, you'll be done with college. It'll grow over the next 16 years to enough to pay for their college. Okay? So you can kind of lump sum the college on the front end, front load it, so to speak, and not do much on the house. The other end of the spectrum is, you know, just start something like an ESA, an educational savings account, which is $2,000 a year, $166.60 a month per child going into a mutual fund, and that gets college started.

And if that's all you ever do, you're probably okay for college, but you're going to do that every year for the next 18 years or so. Meanwhile, you freed up a ton of cash, and you throw that at the house. So the point being, one end of the spectrum, you lean real heavy on the house. The other end of the spectrum, you lean real heavy on the college until it's done, then lean back on the house. You know, what Sharon and I did was we did the second one. We got the house done, and that enabled us to cash flow college,

plus we had already saved for college in addition to that. That's kind of what I was thinking. Yeah, but there's not a wrong answer. you'd already save for college in addition to that. That's kind of what I was thinking. There's not a wrong answer. There's not a wrong answer unless you over-save for college or you save nothing for college. Yeah, okay. And I just had a tough time coming up with a number because we do have the funds available now to do it.

And I'm like, you know, you run these tools. One says $100 a month. The other one says $500 a month. Yeah. And you're thinking, what's going on? Well, I mean, listen, if you do $160, how old is the kid? We have two. We have, she's almost going to be four.

I have a four-year-old in January and a 16-month-old at home. Okay. If you do $2,000 a year in a mutual fund for 18 years, that's $36,000 has gone in. And that will grow to approximately $126,000. That'll probably send that kid to a state school. Great. That's your numbers on the baby. So that's about where you are.

The four-year-old's going to be a little bit more than that, but that's $166.66 a month. That's the minimum I would do at Baby Step 5. And then throw the rest at the house, knock the house out. Then come back and load college up a little more or just pile up some wealth and pay for college. However you want to do it doesn't matter because you'll be able to do it when you knock the house out. So that that's but I want you at least doing a minimum amount and a minimum amount as an ESA on college educational savings account in a good mutual fund. And so good question. Man, you're doing great. Congratulations.

You got this thing on the run. Very, very well done. Love it, love it, love it. Kathy is on Facebook at facebook.com slash Dave Ramsey. By the way, if y'all don't know, there's about four and a half, five million of you on our Facebook page. Thank you for that. Facebook does not allow all the messages we send to get to all of you.

They throttle it on these big fan pages like this, these big celebrity pages, because they want us to buy ads from them. And so just because you're following us on Facebook does not mean you get all of our offers and all of the things that we can do for you for free and that kind of stuff. So you need to know that. And so make real sure that you're like on our email newsletter list and that way you get the offers and stuff no matter whether it gets through Facebook or not.

So I'm going to do Kathy's question on Facebook in the next segment. So I didn't forget that. I'm going to circle it right here because I got off on a side R there, but we're going to take care of it. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Okay, I need you to listen to this, because one normal routine that everyone does can cause total chaos in your life. Folks, I'm talking about the simple act of using Wi-Fi. When you're on Wi-Fi anywhere in public or at home, you're at risk of hackers easily seeing every site you visit and search

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Download it now. My listeners can save even more by going to hotspotshield.com slash Dave. That's hotspotshield.com slash Dave. You can be secure in seconds. Download Hotspot Shield today. Thank you for joining us, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Jordan and Anna are with us in Minneapolis. Hey, guys, how are you?

Hey. Good. We're doing great. We're doing great. We're doing good, Dave. We're calling in to talk about being debt-free and just wanted to thank you for all your guidance with Financial Peace University and getting to this point. Cool. Congratulations.

How much have you paid off? We've paid off $36,000 in about the last two years. Good for you. And your range of income during that time? It averaged about $50,000 to $70,000 in the last two years. Cool. What do y'all do for a living? Go ahead, Jordan. Well, I'm a painter. And then I am a realtor. The last two years, I got licensed two years ago, so this is my second year of being licensed in real estate. That's a pretty good combination. You can give

each other leads. Exactly. That's what we do all the time. I'll bet. Very cool. So $36,000, what kind of debt was this? One was Jordan's car loan. I got a Toyota Camry two years ago, and then the rest of my student loans. I actually went to school to be a teacher, and we had about $19,000 left in student loans, you know, starting when I started my commission-based jobs. That's when we really started attacking this debt together to figure out how we're going to make it work on a regular income with Jordan's income and my commission-based jobs. That's when we really started attacking this debt together to figure out how we're going to make it work on a regular income with Jordan's income and my commission-based. So, you know, your steps are really helpful in just getting, you know, a good routine

in place to get that paid off and a good plan. Very cool. How old are you two? I am 26. I am also 26. Wow. Your guys are on fire. How long have you guys been married?

Just about three years this year, yeah. Okay, so you've been married three years. Two years ago, you start getting out of debt about a year into your marriage. Tell me the story of what happened. Well, our first year of being married, I was given one of your books from my dad. Our church, they regularly do Dave Ramsey classes, and so I actually purchased a gazelle budget online, and I thought that would be a really good way for Jordan and I to put our incomes together

our first year of marriage and figure out where we were every month to see what he was making and what I was making and, you know, where our money was going, which is a really good visual for us to see, you know, how much should be going to groceries, you know, tithing and all of that. And it was really good for Jordan to see as well. I'm kind of more the nerd, I guess. And Jordan's more of the free spirit in our relationship. So it was good for us to start our marriage on the same page

and knowing our finances and where they're going to go. And just kind of from there, we did take Financial Peace University a year ago, and that's what really just got everything rolling into our debt-free life now. That just poured some gas on the fire. It was already burning, though. Exactly, exactly, yeah. Well done, you guys. Very well done.

So I'm guessing since Dad gave you the book that he was cheering you along. Oh, absolutely. All the way. My parents, they strive to be debt-free, and it's just always kind of been in my blood to not have any debt holding us back. So, you know, one of the big pieces of us getting debt-free is that I took on a full-time overnight position at a group home, and that gave us a pretty steady income, you know, the last probably year or so, and that really helped us catapult getting his car paid

off, and then I was able to leave the position, and we just used the rest of my commission to pay off the rest of it, and it was just really such a good feeling and freeing. Wow, very cool. Well, good. You paid a price here. I mean feeling and freeing. Wow. Very cool. Well, good. You paid a price here. I mean, and now you're free so you can you can get started on this real estate thing and make it work. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. We love it. I love I love what I do. And it's just nice, you know, especially, you know, Jordan had kind of mentioned about, you know, the giving portion of it. I don't know if Jordan wanted it. Well, yeah, I was just saying to Anna earlier, it's just it's it's such a big deal that we're able to now, when our friends approach us with charitable things that they want us to get into,

it's not, like, can we get into it? It's how much can we give? And I just think that's super cool. That's big for me. Yeah, that's a different way of looking at things, a different way of living. It's amazing when you don't have to worry about eating and light bills and stuff, how it's easy to be generous. Yeah, absolutely. We love it.

We can just give without worrying about, you know, that month's bills. It's just we're debt-free. There's no debt. And we can just give as much as we want and not really hold back. And it's such a great feeling just to give more. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is? Work together. Persevere and work together.

Work together, definitely. You both have to be on board to do this. Set your budget. And it's not about taking on a bunch of jobs. A bunch of jobs help. But also just sticking to that budget and saying we're not going out to eat more than once this month. Pack lunches. Yeah, pack lunches for work. Don't eat out every day. I mean, it's just the little things that add up and really that money can be put towards the debt and such a more easy lifestyle. Yeah, I sense that you two both came from pretty strong families and that you had a pretty good, a pretty strong communication and relationship before you started this.

Did this add an element to it or was it just kind of a continuation of what was already there? I would say definitely it's helped us in a lot of ways just because she definitely knew all the finances and I was kind of like, well, I'm just going to stay out of it. But then when we started this whole thing, she was explaining things to me and I'm like, well, okay, I really got to be in it, you know. And so through that, I think it even just brought us that much closer. Yeah. You helping her carry the emotional weight of this, even though you're not going to be the math nerd. That's a big, big deal.

That's very well done. Yeah, that did add an element to your marriage then. Cool. Neat. That's good to hear. Well, I'm so proud of you guys. I know your parents are and your friends are. Way to go.

Yeah, thanks, Dave. It was all with your help, and we really appreciate all the guidance and your tools that you've provided for people like us. Well, we just show you how. You're the hero that went and did it. You killed it. So we got a copy of Chris Hogan's Retire Inspired book for you, and that's, of course, the next chapter in your story to become millionaires and outrageously generous

along the way, okay? Awesome. Thanks, Dave. Jordan and Anna, Minneapolis, $36,000 paid off in two years, 26 years old, making $50,000 to $70,000 a year. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. One, we're debt-free!

Yeah! There's a couple of those millennials. She's working an overnight job in a group home to get out of debt. And 26 years old. Shut up. Seriously, that's awesome. That is absolutely fabulous. All right, as promised, a Facebook question from Kathy.

Facebook.com slash Dave Ramsey. If I cash in a cash value life insurance, is it taxable income? Kathy, 99% of the time it will not be. And here is why. When you sell an investment, quote unquote, you have a basis in the investment, meaning what you paid for it. And you only pay taxes on how much more you make over what you paid for it. Your gain above your basis is how taxes are calculated on an investment. Cash value life insurance policies fall under the same guidance in tax regulation. And so your basis in a cash value policy is the total of all the premiums you've ever paid in.

They suck so bad in rates of return, and they take so much out in commissions that you almost never get out even what you put in. You take a loss, so there's no taxes. 99% of the time. I have seen just a handful of policies in 30 years of doing this that actually someone got more out than they put in, and it was a very small amount. And if it does do that, it's taxed not at capital gains but at ordinary income which

is yet another reason that cash value policies suck if they actually did work you'd have your they tax your butt off on it instead of taxing it as a long-term capital gain so um yet another reason that they suck but no it's the it's a fear-based thing that the whole life insurance industry uses the cash value insurance industry uses when you get ready to cash it out, they go, oh, no, don't do that. You have to fill out this form. You might have taxes. And everybody's like, oh, I don't want to have taxes. No, I don't want to have taxes.

You're not going to have any taxes because you're going to lose money. I mean, almost every time. And all you got to do is just figure out what's your policy. It's $50 a month. That's $600 a year. You've been doing that for 10 years. That's $6,000. You're getting doing that for 10 years? That's $6,000. You're getting $5,000 back?

You got no taxes. That's how you do it right there. Your total of your premiums is your basis. And you almost never break through that because these things suck so bad. That's it. Good question, Kathy. Thanks for hanging out with us on Facebook.com slash Dave Ramsey. Make sure you sign up, folks, for our company newsletter if you actually want to know everything that's going on because Facebook throttles the messages we're not able to get

everything to you um that we send to you it's kind of sad really but such is life this is the dave ramsey show guys let's talk about that timeshare pitch that you fell for they promised you exclusive access to travel anywhere you want, tropical beaches, mountain getaways, or whatever. Oh my gosh. They claimed it was the affordable way to travel, and then they convinced you it was a good investment. But here's the deal. Search any auction site for your exact timeshare and see what it's selling for. It's listed for a dollar with no bids. That's not a good investment. Now, I know I'm just adding salt to a very old wound, but look, if you tried calling the resort and they won't take it back, if you tried selling it and no one will buy it,

call Timeshare Exit Team. Timeshare Exit Team will get you out. You'll have to be patient. It can be a long process, and it costs money, but it works. They're so confident in their exit service that if they don't get you out, you get a 100% refund. Call 844-999-EXIT. It's free to talk. 844-999-EXIT.

TimeshareExitTeam.com. Our scripture today, Colossians 3.23, Whatever you do, work heartily as for the Lord and not for men. Mark Cuban said, Sweat equity is the most valuable equity there is. Know your business and industry better than anyone else in the world. Love what you do or don't do it. Agreed, Mark. Colossians 3.23 is one of our core values here.

Do your work as unto the Lord. Meaning that pretend like you were working for God. How hard would you work? How excellent would you be? How much would you care? How much would you pour it out, baby? How much would you bring it? Strap it on.

Get after it. And if you're working for God, that's what you do. Whatever you do, work heartily as for the Lord and not for men. Adam is in Jackson, Tennessee. Hi, Adam. How are you? Doing very well. How are you?

Better than I deserve, sir. What's up in your world? Nothing much, the same old stuff. But I'm 25 years old. I am married. I have two children. I've got about $11,000 worth of debt. Definitely could be a lot more, but I wish it was a lot less.

And the career I'm in, I don't really have a career. I could be a lot more, but I wish it was a lot less. And the career I'm in, I don't really have a career. I'm just a, I mean, I'm a driver. So, you know, my income is limited if I want to be at home every night. And with that being said, I'd like to go back to school or just go to school. I've never went to college at all. And I get a degree, probably a two-year degree that would, you know, double my income around the area that I live. And, of course, the degree program I would like to go into is out of state. It's up in Kentucky. So I could do the prereqs here in Tennessee, of course, and save the money there. But when I actually go to do the course, I'm going to have to pay a little bit more,

or not a little bit, three times as much more to do out-of-state tuition. And I was just kind of getting your thoughts on that. Do you think I should do a loan? I know you hate loans and hate debts, the demon. But, you know, in that circumstance, should I just, you know, bite the bullet, take out one year's worth of student loans just to pay the school? You know, of course, I'd still be working part-time and things of that nature to take care of my household duties. Well, I love that you are ambitious and you're saying, hey, I'm not doing what I want to do.

What are the steps I've got to take to do what I want to do? That's very good, Adam. I mean, you've got two babies. You're 25. You're going, what have I got to do to bust through this thing and to change it? And I completely agree with that. I'm just going to figure out a way to do it that might be a little bit different. And there's always more than one way to skin a cat, if you know what I mean.

And so how can we do this, A, that doesn't add debt, and B, think through it a little further, and is this the only thing to do? So what are you talking about studying? Pretty much the non-technical term would be ultrasound technician is what it is. Okay. All right. And that's only taught in Kentucky? Well, it's taught here in Tennessee, but, of course, where I live, of course, I'm about two and a half hours from you, and I think over there by you is the closest community college or just college period that teaches that course from me.

So, of course, it takes about an hour. Does your wife work outside the home? Yeah, yes, she does. She's an LPN. Oh, great. Okay, cool. And what does she make? I think last year together we made $65,000 before tax.

But that's your driving, and if you're in school, you might not be making quite that. What does she make? I think she's making about $1,250 an hour right now, so I'm not exactly sure what that is. About $30,000.12.50 an hour right now, so I'm not exactly sure what that is. About $30. Okay. Yeah.

All right. Hmm. Okay. So you're making pretty good driving then. You're making more than she is. I am. I'm at a straight time making $15 an hour, and then, of course, I get quite a bit of overtime, which puts me up there.

But because of the overtime is why I make the money. Yeah. I don't want to have to work so much overtime to make that kind of money. But you're driving freight like CDL. Yes, I'm driving a dump truck, actually, yes. I haul gravel and clay and things of that nature. All right, all right. And how expensive is the, okay, let me ask you this.

Why are you going into ultrasound? It's just something I've always. Why not something else? The technology background is really what has driven me to do it more than anything. I love, you know, I've always... Why not something else? The technology background of it is really what has driven me to do it more than anything. I love, you know, I've always looked at the medical field, but I really didn't want to do such things like my wife has been like LPN

and things like that. I was more with the technologists that I do, MRIs and CAT scans, you know, EKGs and things like that. I really like that. You know, it's interesting to me, and I believe I would be good at doing it. You know, I am a people person. And so you're 25, and you finished the school at 27, at 57, is this what you're doing? Yes. You're still doing it at 57? Right, yes. Okay,

alright, okay. Another job, definitely a career. How much is the ultrasound school at Nashville? I haven't even, like I said, I didn't really look at that much i knew what the drive i just couldn't you know couldn't it wouldn't be possible to do that yeah oh here's a great idea okay uh move to nashville your wife is an lpn she can get a job in about 20 seconds and guess what there's a ton of construction in n. Oh, I know it. You can get a job in 20 seconds driving a dump truck while you're in school. You don't pay three times as much for the tuition, and you can make a ton of money while you're doing this.

And then move back two years later. Huh? Yeah. Yeah, even for two years, if I thought I could get her away from her mother that long, I would do it. I don't even know if I can get her to move even that far away. I mean, even for two years, if I thought I could get her away from her mother that long, I would do it. I don't even know if I can get her to move even that far away, I mean, even that close. Well, it's – We don't keep pushing, you know, with our goals in mind.

Look, here's the thing. It's not worth paying three times more to go across the state line when you've got the ability to land jobs over here and you can finish over here. Can you do the prereqs for one year over here like you could in Kentucky? Oh, yes, absolutely. So you'd only be over here one year then? Right. That's so doable.

Yeah. You know, and listen, this is about you and your wife and your goals. It's not about her mother. Right. I didn't think about that. You know, and so it's a short period of time. It's a price her mother. Right. I didn't think about that. And so it's a short period of time. It's a price to be paid. Think about, for instance, what the military families go through when someone is deployed

or when they're moved around the country or moved around the world, for that matter. I mean, mamas put up with that all the time. They don't have a choice because someone chooses for their career the military, and that's what they're going to do all we're talking about you doing is one year and if you want to move back to jackson after that you'll move back there in really good shape financially because you can earn a ton of money while you're going to school because there's so much construction here there's such a shortage for labor in nashville on the construction sites i'll guarantee you can drive

a dump truck whatever days you want to drive it, and you can go to school the other days. That's definitely something I'll be looking into. I appreciate that. Because there's such a demand, and you've got such a marketable skill with that CDL and with your history, and the LPN is exactly the same way. You can land those positions anytime and just rent a little cheap apartment and call it an adventure for a year. And you all move over here in a little two-bedroom, pile the kids in there, and, you know, let's get this degree.

And then you can move back, and you'll move back in a lot better shape because you would have made more money. You would have been with your family while you were studying, not traveling back and forth away from your family, which is harder on you, by the way, and on your family more than your mother-in-law. And guess what? You're paying less for the school. See? And more than one way to skin a cat.

There you go. That's just what we were talking about. A lot of cats getting skinned in this discussion, but just the same. Cats are all hiding. Probably not a bad thing. But there's a lot of ways to attack a problem if you don't just go, oh, well, I'll just do a little bit of that. I'll just do a little bit of that. But that makes then a path that probably you shouldn't go down look okay, and it's not okay.

The better path is the one I just gave you. It really is. Something to think about. Maybe that's not the plan. Maybe you move to Memphis. Maybe you move to Atlanta. I don't know. Maybe you figure out a way to do it with a different school that you hadn't found yet,

and you can do almost all of it correspondence or online or away, distance learning, whatever we want to call it, right? And so I don't care, but you take borrowing money off the table, all of a sudden it forces you to look at more creative options, and that's what always happens here. It always happens with me, too. When I take borrowing off the table, I change the speed at which I do things. I change if I do some things, and I change the things I do and how I get them done.

And I'm almost always wiser by being at a different speed, by doing it more thoughtfully and more creatively. It just changes everything. We do everything around here at the speed of cash, period. And sometimes that means we have to tap the brakes a little bit, or we have to do something in an uncomfortable way. But let me tell you what's uncomfortable. Student loan debt.

That's uncomfortable. Well, that puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer. Blake Thompson is our senior executive producer. Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace.

And that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Kelly, Dave's phone screener. We finished 2017 with a bang as the fourth most downloaded podcast of the year. Thanks to all of you for listening and helping us spread the word. One question I get asked all the time is, do I need life insurance? Listen, the whole point of life insurance is to replace your income for someone who counts on you. So if you have a spouse or you have kids, yes, you need term life insurance. It's the only way to protect them until you're out of debt and have built up your wealth. You're only digging a deeper hole if you waste money on cash value plans, since it robs you of the ability to make real progress. And that's why I send you to Zander Insurance, and I have for 20 years. That's where I

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