The Ramsey Show - App - Sometimes, Before Financial Peace Comes War (Hour 2)

Episode Date: February 11, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions Broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is done, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. In case you missed it last week, we made a really cool announcement about the Dollar Car Rental Studios. They've made it very easy now for you to use your debit card. You are not treated like a second-class citizen at Dollar Car Rental when you are a debit card user. You walk up to the counter, you have a driver's license, you're 20 years old, you have a debit card with $200 in your bank account, you rent a car.

Just like a regular person and everything. They don't keep one of your children in the vault or anything. It's pretty cool. Yeah, I've been griping about this for years, and actually one of their senior vice president's husband heard me on the radio talking about it, texted his wife in a meeting and said, you need to get in touch with Ramsey. They did. They're the nicest people, and we have gotten to know them.

And it takes a little while to take something the size of a dollar car rental and change its entire operation to where they take debit cards without a credit check, without anything. And they've done that. We've been working with them since last summer. We launched it last week, and they sponsored our studio as a part of that deal, and we're going to tell all of you over and over again. And if you want to walk past the counter and straight to the car, you can do that.

Just go to dollar.com slash Ramsey and join the Dollar Express rewards. It doesn't cost anything, and you walk past the counter straight out to your car with your debit card, and you're treated like a regular person. So nice. So important. This announcement shook the rental car industry to the point the New York Times ran an article on dollar car rental doing this as a result of our interaction with them. Interesting.

Of course, it's the New York Times, so they failed to mention I was involved because I think they suck and they think I suck. So it's a mutual hate society. But anyway, well, you just got to have somebody out there knowing that you're around, right? So dollar.com slash Ramsey, dollar.com slash Ramsey, and you can join the Dollar Express Rewards Program for free. Just mention Ramsey when you go to the counter. Mention Ramsey when you're on the website, whatever you're doing, and you're going to see a company that is glad that Ramsey folk are around, that our tribe is embracing their recognition of the debit card user as an actual human being,

not a second-class citizen. Very cool stuff. Marcus is in Los Angeles. Hey, Marcus, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you, sir. It's a pleasure to talk to you. You too, sir. How can I help?

Well, we just started the program, and we were in Baby Step 2. Now we're back to Baby Step 1, gaining $1,000, because we started out with $56,000 in debt. And when we had our financial meeting, it turns out there's actually $205,000 more added to that. I'm so confused. You had $200,000 worth of debt you didn't know you had? Yes, sir. How is this possible?

Explain to me. It's possible because the honesty in our marriage, it wasn't where it was supposed to be. And, I mean, I'm in a tough spot right now because I'm not going to leave my family, one. And, two, the truth had to come out when it came out. I'm just in a bad place now. It's tough for me right now. Okay, so you're saying your wife had hid $200,000 worth of debt from you? Yes.

Holy crap. That's exactly what I said. I don't think I want to be at that kitchen table when that unfolds. One of the things I said to one of my friends, I said, yeah, well, I started this financial peace, but I guess before peace comes, war. Well, there's that. How long have you been married? We've been married for 17 years. What's your household income?

Our household income, mine is about a hundred well actually to be exact it's 142 000 okay and does she work outside the home what does she make is that part of that money that's part of that money okay 142 000 so how are you married for 17 years and she possibly has a life the size of $200,000 off to the side that you don't know about? That's the same question I ask. Well, I'm asking you because that says you're not plugged into your wife very well. You're right, 100%. She was in school to get her Ph.D.

How much of this is student loan debt? 205. Well, actually, 205 plus 25 more thousand. Okay, so it's all student loan debt. Mostly, yes. Okay, so you knew she was going to school, and you knew you weren't paying for it. How did you think it was being paid for?

Here goes the bad part. This is the bad part. After it came out that I was $200,000, I asked, well, where did this come from? How did it happen? She said, well, I went and looked back, and really there's only about $50,000 that I should have used to get my education. And I asked her, I said, well, is there a bank account with $150,000 that I don't know about because I don't know about this debt either? And, of course, the answer is no.

So I don't know. We don't have a lifestyle to where you have to have $150,000 extra. And I don't know where it went. I don't know. We don't have a lifestyle to where you have to have $150,000 extra. And I don't know where it went. I don't know. All right. There's several things going on here, okay? There's the future, which the two of you attack a $200,000 debt pile with $142,000 income. That's thing one. There's the past where the two of you have to get a real clear understanding on what actually occurred in the past in order to start to rebuild not only your financials but also your trust.

In our world, we call this financial infidelity because this level of of breach of trust this level of you being asleep at the wheel and her lying her butt off while you're asleep at the wheel uh it approximates having an affair in this in the emotional space yeah and so you guys are going to have to get out sit down with a marriage counselor and unpack some of this as to how you're this asleep at the wheel and how she's willing to lie at this level um and and throw up her hands and go i have no idea where 150 grand went so you've got to rebuild that trust to be able to go forward in your relationship and the only possible way that you repay this together is to go forward in your relationship i assume your name is not on the loans unless she committed criminal fraud.

So maybe she has the loans if there were a divorce. And I'm not recommending a divorce, but I'm saying that you guys have got to walk through the rebuilding of your relationship very similar to a couple that has experienced an adulterous affair. It's not the same, but it's pretty close with a lot of people. And the way you're talking this through, that's the way it sounds. And this is very extreme because of the numbers. So I'm going to highly recommend a good marriage counselor

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chministries.org. Nicole is in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Lancaster, if I said that right. Hey, Nicole, what's up? Hi, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Okay, so my husband and I are going to be getting a pretty significant tax return.

We're thinking maybe 10 grand or so. And we have a couple of different decisions to make. And we wanted to get your opinion on this. So we just paid off all of our debts except for our mortgage, which is about $88,000. Way to go. Thank you. But now my husband also has a business partner, and they have some rental properties in an LLC, which have a significant amount of debt as well.

And we have the opportunity to possibly, the one is an 11 unit, which there's like $544,000 on that one. And there is a personal townhome, which has about $75,000 on that one. And we have the opportunity to possibly sell, get out of the business, and get out of the 11 unit and just take on the townhome as our personal rental property then. So that's one situation. Why do you need money to do that? Well, we wouldn't have money to cash flow that, no. So that would become our debt.

No, I'm saying you need to use the $10,000 in question for that. The question with the $10,000 then is, if we would do that, would we put $10,000 then is, if we would do that, would we put $10,000 towards starting to pay off that? Or I also need a vehicle. I have a 2001 Chevy Suburban right now. It's probably worth about $3,000. It's rusting really bad, and there's some unknown engine issues. What is your household income? My husband makes about $86,000 before taxes. Okay. And you're a stay-at-home mom? I'm a stay-at-home mom. We have three kids. Do you have an emergency fund yet? We have our $1,000 emergency fund. We do not have

the four to six month one. Gotcha. Okay. All right. Well, it's pretty simple we're going to walk up the baby steps and before i buy cars couches or vacations i have i'm debt free except the home and i have an emergency fund so you need an emergency fund before you buy a car and um that 10 grand yeah so that 10 grand is going to be you're raising your $1,000 up towards your three to six months of expenses. It's going to take that whole $10,000 easy. Right, it would. And so that money has just gone there. And then you start saving aggressively for your car.

You might even not start your baby step four, 15% of your income going into retirement for a short period of time until you save up $5,000 and buy a car okay if you want to do that i might do that as far as the other rental property goes you pay it off with your house and baby step six okay so just lump that into that yeah dump that dump that over to baby step six and clean it up as you're cleaning up your other real estate real estate goes in baby step six. Okay, all real estate. Yeah, unless it's a tiny, tiny little loan or something. Maybe you owe $15,000 or something. No, it's probably going to end up being $60,000.

Okay, the last question is, why in the world are you getting a tax return of $10,000? You realize that that means you're withholding $800 a month too much, right? Yes. Well, my husband was self-employed, and he just at the end of last year in September started a new job. So that's why it's going to be a lot this year. That means that either the new job is overwithholding by a bazillion, or he paid out too much into his quarterly returns, one of the two. I think both is happening and he already is

looking into adjusting what he's getting back because yes we are getting a lot he's getting way too much taken out yeah yeah you need to probably in this case you probably just need to have your tax advisor calculate your actual tax bill for 2019 and set your withholding up to be that tax bill. Okay. And, you know, in other words, take the proper, because the number of deductions that you take has nothing to do with reality. The IRS can't do math. So their deductions chart is completely screwed.

So you need to figure out when you're going to pay $12,000 in taxes. So we need to withhold $1,000 a month. We get paid twice a month. That's $500 a paycheck or whatever, right? Just do some simple math. Look at the total tax bill divided into the number of paychecks and make sure that you claim enough deductions to get that amount withheld and not much more. Okay. Our goal is to get a $50 refund or less.

Wow. Okay. Because otherwise you're loaning money to the government all year with no interest. They don't pay you interest. Santa Claus does not live in Washington, D.C. That was your money. You gave them too much, and they gave it back to you with a wink and a nod. And you feel like Christmas came in April, but it doesn't.

Okay. So that's where you want to be with tax refunds. But anyway, you're doing great. That becomes your emergency fund, and then we save up and buy you a car, and then we start maybe step four, 15% of your income going into retirement. Five is kids' college, and six is other extra monies we get later on. Then we start going towards the houses and begin to get them paid off in that order. So good question.

Bill is with us in Boston. Hey, Bill, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Good to talk with you. You too, man. What's up? Well, you know, the first time I took Financial Peace University was back in 2006. I had just lost my job, and next to getting saved, it was

the best thing that ever happened to my wife and I. Wow. So that's a real testament to your program. Thank you. And to Financial Peace University. Fast forward to now, I'm now coordinating an FPU class at our church. Thank you. We have 38 people that are taking it. And yesterday we finished step three. So we did the $1,000 emergency fund, the debt snowball. Now we're on the three- to six-month emergency fund. And for my wife and I, we're approaching retirement.

I work for myself, and she is planning on retiring the end of this year. We've been doing the budget. We've put all that together. It looks like we'll be okay. We just paid off. I received the title to my truck last week. She'll be getting. We paid off her car.

Cool. Saturday. How can I best help today? And I guess the question I have is with regard to doing the taxes. I know Step 3 is doing that at three to six month fund but where i'm self-employed i generally contribute to an sep and it saves me about seven thousand dollars a year in taxes no that's not what's your house what do you make a year in taxes no that's not what's your house what do you make a year you know so i guess what do you make a year do we do the three to six month emergency fund which where what do you make

a year halfway there right now hey bill uh hey bill or hey bill you know do i contribute to the the sep and get that that tax savings because you know that's a significant amount uh that would take me a long time to bill can you hear me turn in a money market fund bill can you hear me yes okay what do you make a year about 120 000 okay you are not saving seven thousand dollars on your taxes that's just simply mathematically impossible, making $120,000 with a SEP. You might be putting $7,000 in there, but that's probably saving you $2,000 on your taxes because a SEP is a Simplified Employee Pension Plan. It's tax deductible like a traditional IRA is, and a $7,000 tax deduction is not a $7,000

tax savings. It's at your tax rate, which would probably be 22% or so right there, give or take. And so that's going to save you $1,400 in taxes. That's your tax savings. So now we tell folks in our baby steps to temporarily stop all investing until they get through the first three baby steps and have their emergency fund in place and their debt-free everything but their house. And that's what we teach. Thank you for leading the class, and I appreciate the opportunity to clarify that for you.

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Hey, how's it going, Dave? Welcome, where do y'all live? Bloomington, Illinois. Cool, good to have you. And all the way down to Nashville to do a debt-free screen. Yes, sir. All right, how much have you paid off? $113,000.

Woo-hoo! How long did this take? Just about six years. Yeah. Five and a half, six years. Gotcha. And your range of income during that time? We started at about $40,000, and now we're around $90,000.

Yep. Cool. Now tell me about the $113,000. What kind of debt was this? Well, we started with her credit card and a car and student loans and the house yeah wow oh you paid off your house that's the six years all right how old are you guys 30 yep and you have a paid for house you're so weird i'm looking at weird people well done what's the house worth about 130 $130,000. Oh, wow. Very nice.

How does it feel to not even have a mortgage? Weird. Very weird. But awesome. It's awesome. It's peaceful for sure. Very cool. How long have you all been married?

Six years. Oh, so get married. Start the process. You got it. Get your debt paid off. Work your emergency fund. You've worked right up the baby steps, it sounds like. Yes, sir.

And then started beating on the house. How much of the $113,000 was your mortgage? $72,000. Okay. All right. Very good. So tell me the process. How did you end up doing this stuff, this whole financial peace thing, immediately after getting married?

Actually, this started just before we got married. So Sam came home one day from work, and he was like, Hey, I've been listening to the radio. I got kind of tired of listening to the same songs on repeat. And I heard about this guy named Dave Ramsey. You should check this out with me. And so we started listening to podcasts. And then when we got engaged, I thought, you know, I don't want to go into this marriage and have him be better at handling finances because he didn't come into the relationship with any debt.

I mean, he had the house mortgage. And for me, you know, I'm like, I got the credit card, I got the student loans and everything else. And I thought, you know, I want to make sure that I'm just as equipped and to be this, be a partner for Sam. And so I surprised him. So he proposed to me and then I proposed we go to Financial Peace University. And so we brought a friend of ours along with who was looking for houses at the time, and the three of us went through the course together. We were accountability buddies. I love it. Yeah, and then after that, it was really for our first year wedding anniversary.

That was a present to each other. Yeah, so we got rid of the credit card, paid off the last of of the student loans and we were at that point non-mortgage debt free love it in one year yeah yeah wow she had paid off the card before we got married okay i cut it up in the middle of class yeah good pre-marriage counseling yeah very wise on your part samantha very well done very cool all right so you're 30 years old. Everything's paid for. You've had six years of marriage doing it the right way. Instead of trying to kill each other, you're working together.

So tell folks what is the secret to handling money, to getting out of debt, and paying off your mortgage by the time you're 30? I'd say the biggest secret for me was the discipline of actually taking the time to sit down and talk with you, to actually push through and do the extra hours of work that are necessary.

We started a gym. I teach martial arts on top of my day job. And I come home. I go to work at 7. I come home at 9. And we have a budget meeting. Yeah. Yeah.

It was a lot. Sometimes that's a bit rough. Right. Sometimes it was the last thing you wanted to do, and it's already been a pretty busy week for both of us. And sometimes I tend to be a little bit of this free spirit and didn't want to be nailed down to get that budget going. But I'm really glad that he stuck with it and really kind of helped me along, too.

And there were days that it's like, okay, I'm ready. Let's go for this. And I will say the other part is just once you build that momentum, once I started seeing too and uh and there were days that it's like okay i'm ready let's go for this and um i will say the other part is just once you build that momentum once i started seeing the the debt just you know that snowball it was like wow what an amazing feeling and then the last payment i had on my student loan i'm like oh my gosh that's it that's that's a non-mortgage debt free and just like it's such a crazy feeling that's neat so when you got the house down to what number was the house at when you started to go wait a minute we're about to do this you're like this is like it's we're

about to smack i mean was it 10 000 20 000 15 i don't know what yeah well 24 was when we were looking at it and we're like i think we can handle. And then we sold my motorcycle last year to pay it off totally. And that was the last six. Okay. So you got within six and you're like, motorcycle, mortgage, motorcycle, mortgage. No motorcycle, no mortgage. Yeah! We wanted it done by the time we were 30 and that was the easiest way to do it.

And without any payments in the world, making $90,000, you can have a motorcycle if you want to go buy one, right? Yep. Very, very cool. Good for you guys. Very good. Good for you guys. Well done. Who were your biggest cheerleaders outside of the two of you? Oh, man.

Our parents. Definitely your parents. You guys, your parents started you off, you and your sister off on that foot. My brothers and my sisters-in-laws. Drew and Krista were really big friends. Our accountability buddy, Justin. Yeah. And then just as we started continuing the course, I think we really started to get more

momentum with the friends that were like, so where are you guys at now? It was kind of cool to have them check in and just listen to the story. And we know several of them are watching us now. And so it's just great to be able to serve as just listen to the story. And, um, we know several of them are watching us now. And so, you know, it's just great to be able to serve as that additional inspiration, you know, in our friend network and also with our family members.

What do you guys do for a living? So I work for the water department in Bloomington. And then like we said, uh, run a martial arts gym. Right. Yep. And then I,

I work for a division, uh, as an administrative assistant at an agricultural company in our town. Oh, very cool. Cool, cool, cool. Well, congratulations, you two. Thank you. We're proud of you.

Well done. Ding, ding. We've got a copy of Chris Hogan's Everyday Millionaire's book for you because you're going to be one. Thank you. You are well on your way now. And 30 years old, 100%, house and everything. Debt-free, baby! I love it.

Excellent job. Sam and Samantha, Bloomington, Illinois, $113,000 paid off in six years, making $40,000 to $90,000 through that time. House and everything by 30. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Here we go. Three, two, one. hear a debt-free scream here we go three two one well done very well done you guys that's as good as it gets right there. Man, oh, man, oh, man. Beautiful, beautiful.

You know, getting the right house is a good idea because that way the right house doesn't get you, right? It doesn't own you. You want your home to be a blessing and not a curse. And if you buy more than you can afford, yeah, it'll bite you on it. Moving into a smaller home could help you save afford, yeah, it'll bite you on it. Moving into a smaller home could help you save big, not only on your mortgage, but on upkeep and all kinds of things. Our endorsed local providers are real estate agents that are committed to

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So when you're doing a real estate transaction, you need a quality, high-protein, high-octane producer in your corner. And all you do is just go to DaveRamsey.com, and you click on ELP for real estate. When the real estate market's hot, a monkey can sell a house. But that doesn't mean you ought to hire one. Think about it. That'll come to you a little bit later. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Erica is in Chicago.

Hi, Erica. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Can you hear me okay? I sure can. How can I help? Awesome. Well, I want to start off by just saying thank you because because of you about, I want to say five years ago, I started listening to you four years ago.

I became debt free. So I got married two years ago, came into the marriage, obviously, debt free, like I said. Initially, we were on the same page. To make the long story short, I ended up selling a Civic that I had to purchase two cars because my husband moved here from South America. So we bought two used cars. One of them works awesome. The second one, we basically were told it had like 80,000 miles.

It ended up having like 200,000 miles. We ended up paying like five times more than what it was. And it died a couple of months ago. So now my husband wants to finance a new car, and as you can imagine, I am freaking out. I don't know what to do. I don't want it to become an argument, but I don't know how to convince him that that's just not a good idea. Okay. Why are you convinced it's not a good idea?

Well, because I followed your principles. I don't want to go in debt. Why? Why? Because of the goals we have long-term. I mean, we were pretty much done with our emergency fund. We wanted the next of us to buy a house. The car itself is going to lose so much value when we take it out of the place and we're going to get it from. I feel like we could get another car that's used. I feel we just had bad luck with the one that, you know, we got ripped off on.

And when you say all of that to him, what does he say? He says that it's just a huge risk, that we're probably going to get ripped off again, and that he doesn't want to do that, then we need a car. And why would you not get ripped off if you bought a new car? Trust me, I've tried to say everything I can. I just don't know. It even got so bad to a point where he's saying that I'm just so close-minded with the way that I think about money, that maybe we should go separate ways type

of thing. So we've gone to that point, and then I'm like thinking of the wife side of me, trying to be a good Christian wife is like, okay, should I... So is your definition of a good Christian wife going along with misbehavior? Not at all, and that's where I'm getting stuck at. So you just use the phrase good Christian wife in order to give yourself permission to cave to a wrong decision. So that was going to be my question. Do I let him make a mistake and him realize that it's a mistake in the long run,

or do I just put my foot down and say, no, we're not doing this? Yeah. Well, here's the thing. Hardhead, that's your husband's name, he is unwilling to take his wife's input. That's a problem in a relationship. You shouldn't be running over him, and he shouldn't be running over you the bible says submit yourselves one to another and um if your husband is wanting to do cocaine and he thinks that's a

wonderful thing are you a good christian wife if you go along with it no of course and buying a car on a car payment is financial cocaine it's stupid as a matter of fact we know It's stupid. As a matter of fact, we know it's stupid. And it's not that you're not willing to bend. It's like, I understand the law of gravity. I'm unwilling to jump off the building. I get it. There's a law in force here. And I'm not a lawbreaker.

I'm not jumping off the building. I don't care if you think you can fly. I'm not jumping off the building. You know? And that's all you're saying is this is an illogical, bad decision. It's an unwise decision. Here's how we know it's unwise. All the things that you just said earlier when I asked you why you didn't want to do it. A car payment keeps you from your goals.

A car payment is financing a large asset that goes down in value. A car payment is the signal you want to be middle class the rest of your life because all the data points of millionaires tell us they don't borrow money to buy cars and haven't in several decades. When I asked millionaires what the biggest financial mistake they ever made was, they said, well, we bought a new car on payments one time when we were stupid. And we quit doing that kind of stuff, and that's when we became millionaires. When we studied 10,000 of them, that's what they said, as opposed to hardhead, in his opinion.

So what do you do? I don't know. I don't know how you deal with a hardhead exactly, except possibly if he's threatening that you need to go your separate ways because you won't go along with financing a car, then that says that your relationship comes down to him controlling your decisions. That ain't much of a relationship, and that says that you need to be in marriage counseling to me. Okay.

I think that's what I needed to hear. Yeah, because hardhead is, you know, he's pretty much going to be his way or the highway, it says what he's saying. You're going to go along with my stupidity, and if you don't go along with that, I'm the man of the house, then you're not a good Christian wife, and we need to go our separate ways. That's what's floating in the air in this conversation. Am I missing something?

Okay. No, and I think I needed to hear it. That's what I was thinking as well. I was just not sure at what point do I just, you know, Well, I'm not suggesting you end your marriage over a car payment, but this is really not about a car payment. This is about control. Okay.

This is about who's going to control things and he's going to. It's my way or the highway. So what's next? If you go along with this one, what's the next thing you have to go along with? And the next thing you have to go along with against wisdom. See, this is not how a proper relationship functions. And so I can guarantee you that if Sharon Ramsey pulls that same kind of crap, she and I are going toe-to-toe. And she can fight.

She's a hillbilly woman. She knows how to fight. And vice versa, if I'm doing something that she doesn't go along with, we go toe-to-toe. Now, we don't do it very often. We've been married a long time. We figured out how to not act that way but we do not make major decisions in our lives unless both of us are in agreement now there's some things that she wants to do she goes and does them and i'm

okay with that and we talk about that i have no desire to do that you want to do that head off go do it that's fine but it's not borrowing money on a car. It's, you know, who you're going to lunch with or who you want to go to dinner with or whatever. I'm happy to not do that. You head on. And that works out fine. But major decisions like buying a piece of real estate, making a major charitable contribution, a decision like that, if both of us are not in agreement, we just don't do it. Until we have agreement about it, we do not move forward proactively on financial and life decisions of size. And I've learned I make a lot more money that way.

Proverbs 31 says, who can find a virtuous wife for her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts her. And wait for the financial part. Here's what it says. And he will have no lack of gain. So men, if you're married to a virtuous woman,

and if you're married to a virtuous woman, usually she doesn't have to tell you she's virtuous. That's part of being virtuous. She doesn't think she's the Holy Spirit. That's part of being virtuous. But if you're married to a virtuous woman that has an opinion, you will have no lack of gain when you go along with that. And that's not caving, and that's not being a wuss, and that's not not being a man. That's not, you know, being henpecked or whatever. That's just getting along in relationships properly and listening to each other. The preacher said, and now you are one.

And so if you make decisions by yourself, you're using half your brain. Because together you're one. But one of you is the half. And so that's how this works. And I made a lot of decisions with half my brain. I ran the car off the road in the ditch. Meanwhile, my wife was going, I think I saw a bridge outside. I think I saw flashing lights here.

Yeah, well, well, I'm driving the car. Okay. Right? Not a good idea. So we learned to work together, and we have had no lack of gain ever since. It slows us down. It gets unity in the household. It creates relationships.

By the way, another issue is when we study these millionaires, none of them said, I did this in spite of my spouse. Out of 10,000 millionaires, some were single, some were divorced, but none of them said, I built wealth in spite of my spouse's bad decisions. Never happened once. It's always, we work together to hit our household goals. We sacrifice together to hit our household goals. 100% of the time, that's what they said.

Never said, I drugged the princess along, kicking and screaming. Never came up in the research, not once. So low probability of prince or hardhead or princesses that won't work together, leading to wealth. Very low probability. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about a product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything that is mentioned during this episode in the podcast show notes section. Thanks for listening.