The Ramsey Show - App - Sometimes It Takes a Village to Assassinate Sallie Mae (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 1, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Isabel is with us in Virginia. Hi, Isabel.

How are you? Great. Thank you. I'm so excited to talk to you. You too. Thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can I help?

So, I've been listening to you every day. My husband and I are currently on baby step two. We pretty much are, besides our car lease, which is up next spring around March, that's the only thing we have besides our house, my husband and I can't seem to agree to either sell our rental property or keep it. So here it goes. It's a few blocks from where we live. We are in a very expensive area.

So the value does go up because Amazon is around the corner. Currently, about $615. If we sell it, we have $10 in there. We do make money on top of our mortgage payment, roughly about $250 net. We have a balance of roughly $385, and we do have capital gain because we only lived in it for a year and a half. My question to you is, should we sell it and use the proceeds after taxes to accelerate baby steps going to the six-month reserve. And the caveat is that we need to have college funds. We have two daughters, but we don't have a 529.

How old are your daughters? Nine and ten. Okay. What's your household income? Two and a quarter. Good. Okay. Doing rather well.

And what's the house worth, the rental? Right now, $615. And the thing is, our tenant at one point, this is a few months ago, have expressed interest in buying it. So I don't know if, but either way, we can't sell it until the lease is up, which is next spring. Okay, so after expenses, you got around $200,000 equity, give or take, and you'll have some taxes, you said, because it's gone up probably a couple hundred grand while you owned it, roughly. So you probably got $30,000 in taxes.

How long have you been renting it? Actually, for around 13, ever since we live in this house, so about 13, 14 years. Okay. All right. And what's your personal mortgage on your personal residence? Mortgage. Oh, gosh. We just recently refinanced it.

The balance? Mm-hmm. $700,000. No, $680,000. Okay. All right. Well, the rental property is not a bad property. It's got enough equity in it.

It ought to actually be cash flowing more than it is. It's only making $5,000 a year on a $600,000 investment. That's not too good. Well, can I add one more thing? Mm-hmm. Just so you have it. There is a three uh by 23 more years there's an arm on this rental so it will expire in three years but that was my thing that i worry i don't know what the rate will be right he figured by that time we'll worry about it for me is that

i've met with my financial advisor a few days ago, and we looked into perhaps maybe we can take the proceed and put it in a 529 or different path of saving for their college. Well, here's the way to answer the question, and you and your husband can look at it this way. Sit down tonight, turn off the television, and just concentrate on this problem and talk together in a conversation, not an argument, tonight. And let's just take your kitchen table and clean the dishes off, and let's pile $200,000 cash in the middle of the table. Okay?

Okay. Would we fund kids' college and pay down our mortgage and work some of the other baby steps, get a car because your lease is going to run out, pay the taxes on it, or would we buy a rental property? And I think you are saying you would definitely not buy a rental property, even though there's a lot of reasons because this property has gone up in value. It's a strong market. It's around the corner from a good employer, and so everybody's excited about it.

It's got a little bit of a gold rush angle on it in the market and all that kind of thing. But I love rentals. I've got a bunch of them, and I like them paid for, and I like your house paid for. I think this rental is a leftover. You didn't set out to buy this property as a rental. You became a rental by default when you moved out of it and into this other property. Instead of selling it at the time for whatever reason, you kept it and rented it. But you weren't sitting in the current property you're in and saying, I want to go buy a rental property.

And if you did, you probably wouldn't have bought that one because it's not doing real well cash flow-wise. I mean, $400 or $500 on the rate of return on the $200,000 equity that you've got even is not that great. So it's okay, but there's nothing here exciting. So as much as I love real estate, in your situation, I think you have other priorities other than investment real estate right now. And I think someday that once you get past the 529s and past the car fleece and get your mortgage paid off, I think someday you'll probably save up with your fabulous income and buy you some paid for rentals because I think your husband likes rentals. And I do. I'm a fan of real estate when done right and done debt-free. But in your case, I would probably sell it. Hey, thanks for the call.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Maryland is Ben's calling from Maryland. Hi, Ben. How are you? Hi. Good afternoon, Dave. I have an insurance question for you. Okay.

My wife and I, we have renter's insurance. Good. And the insurance agent last year sold us water backup and sump pump overflow insurance with a $5,000 limit. And I want to know if it's worth keeping for this year. In addition to your rental? This is part of the renter's insurance. It's included in it, but was there an upcharge for sump pump backup? Yeah. It's like there's the property coverage and liability coverage.

This is an optional additional coverage. Okay, so what did you pay for it? It's $39. Does the property have a sump pump? So the basement for us is rented out to somebody else, and then we have the upstairs up. So the chances of the sump pump macking up and going up a story is zero. No, no, but the insurance agent told us it was like if the toilet overflows or if the sink overflows or you know a water heater breaks and causes that type of damage i'm probably going to

self-insure through these things unless you're living in an absolute freaking dump of some kind but i mean the 39 isn't gonna kill you one way or the other but it sounds like a gimmick insurance obviously um and so main thing i want you covered for with renter's insurance is uh fire and theft of your contents um or a little bit of liability if one of your friends falls down in there and decides to sue you instead of the landlord um or something like that some liability insurance and fire and theft on your contents that's really all it is a couple hundred bucks a year in most states will do that. About $20,000 worth of coverage.

Everyone that's renting needs a renter's policy, but I haven't run into sump pump backup insurance before. That's a new one. Nah, I'll pass. Thanks for the call. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. folks let's cut through the bull interest rates are exceptionally low so you're missing out if you have not called churchill mortgage to see if you can save money on your home loan. Lots of other companies are out there claiming great deals, but don't get lured by

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NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Talitha is with us in Pennsylvania. Hi, Talitha. How are you? Hey, Uncle Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve.

Cool. How can I help today? Okay, so I'm calling about baby step four. I'm on two, but I'm just thinking ahead. I already own my own home. I just paid off $19,000 worth of truck loan. So that's done. And so I'm trying to figure out, I have no children for college.

And what do I do after four? Your house is paid for? Yes. Okay. Well, when you get to four you're on seven oh okay i just jumped okay because really what you're doing you do you do just for everybody else listening you would do retirement savings college savings and pay off the mortgage or four five six all at the same time but that's the order of priority okay right and once your house is paid off then what you are is baby step

seven which is build wealth and give outrageously um and so what you're what you're going to do is you're not going to really do a traditional baby step four you're just going to look at retirement and go how much can i invest anywhere and hide it from the government legally so i'm going to max out i'm going to max out all of my retirement options. I'm going to max out my 401k. I'm going to max out my Roths. I'm going to max out anything I can to keep the government's hands off of it. I'm going to max out my generosity, and I'm going to enjoy some money. There's three things you could do with money. Invest it, give it, and live it. Okay. And you ought to be doing all three. Most people got the living it part down. They don't have to go into coaching on that.

But the investing and the giving need to be systematic for the rest of your life to where every month, every year, the normal rhythm of your life is increased generosity, increased investment, and increased enjoyment. Well, the giving part is not an issue. I just had to learn to stop giving to the detriment of myself. But I'm always a giver. I was a giver since I was born. So the giving part is never a problem.

So you're probably a spender, too, then? Actually, not really. Really? Okay. I try not to. No, that's okay. Most spenders, giving is easy for them. No, I'm not a spender on me.

Savers have to learn to give sometimes. Yeah, I'm not a spender on me. Savers have to learn to give sometimes. Yeah, I'm just a spender on other people. Like if I see a need, I try to do everything under the sun to fit the need. Okay. And I sometimes do it where I pull monies from stuff I shouldn't pull monies from. Right. So that's my only issue. And see, here's what you do.

I have to learn to do better. And what you do is you plan your impulses. Okay. Okay. So what I do in that situation is we have a family, you know, ours is pretty advanced these days. So we have a family foundation with an annual budget, and we vet out the ministries that we're going to give to.

My daughter's the director of that, and there's a board of family members that look over who we're going to give to that year. She vets them and looks at them. Are they running the place well? Are they running it consistent with what we're doing? give to that year. She vets them and looks at them. Are they running the place well? Are they running it consistent with what we're doing? And we make those gifts. And also, in the budget of that is room for random acts of kindness. And so if we run into a single mom needs a car,

Denise just gets them a car. Gotcha. And so we've planned our impulses. We left room for the Holy Spirit to direct us throughout the year, not just on budget night. Okay. Does that make sense? It does.

It does. And I just wanted to let you know I'm going to be doing an SPU class at my church in December. I think you're going to be great at it. Thank you very, very much. I appreciate you doing that. Donna is with us in Pennsylvania. Hey, Donna, how are you? Hi, I'm good. How about you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Okay, so I've listened to your show, and I've heard you talk about the student loans and parent responsibility, and forgive me if I get upset.

I was stupid, plain and simple, but I'm trying not to compound it. So I ended up with two sons, and I came out with a parent plus loan of $369,000. Oh, baby girl. And now granted, one is a biomedical engineer. One is a researcher with NASA. They landed well. They're making around $65,000 to $70,000. Okay, so it wasn't like they took anything, but still that was too much money for me to...

Those jobs both sounded like they should be making twice that. The first couple of years, they got to put in their time. Okay, so they're just fresh out now was there any was there any handshake agreement between you and these rocket scientists that they're going to repay any of this uh we talked about that i i'm a single mom their dad does not participate in any of this or help or any way like that and i said i will do this for you but we're the three musketeers here this is the three of us in this together. So they know that they need to pay it back.

Oh, good. But at the same time, I'm the parent. I'm the adult. What do you make? I allow this to happen. What do you make? I make around 85. Okay.

All right. Well, I agree. You're not an unwilling victim. You're a grown lady. You signed up for this mess. But it's a mess, and it's going to require a village. So the three musketeers are going to have to get together and kill Sally Mae. Exactly.

We're going to put them out on an assassination squad. Believe me, if they would just let us have a decent interest rate, it's the interest rate in the compound interest that's getting it. Well, not really, because let's pretend for a second, and I sure hope I'm not pretending, but let's pretend for a second we had three people making $100,000 a year, which is where we are 24 to 36 months from today. That's $300,000 income to deal with a, you said, $369,000 debt. Is that what you said?

Right. Yes. Okay. So if each of you chip in, live on, you know, make $100,000 and live on $50,000, I'm just using round numbers, that's $150,000 a year on this. That's two and a half years. Right, and that leads to my question. I sold my house recently not for the student loan debt.

It was a four-bedroom. My kids are in other states right now. So I paid off all of my debt. Well, this is your debt. And I have $40,000 left. Yeah, this is your debt, too. Right, but I paid off the other. There's no credit000 left. Yeah, this is your debt, too. Right. But I paid off the other. There's no credit cards.

You're debt-free except the Parent Plus. Right. Okay. So I have $40,000 left. Okay. It goes on this. I'm trying to figure. And that's what my question is.

Like, should I leave this in a nest egg for myself? No. For, okay. We have to attack the student loan debt. All three of you have to pretend like you are one household and you are going to live like three college students, broke people, nothing, no life, and you're going to destroy this mess. Because your other option is to try to do this somewhat gradually or quote-unquote more reasonably, and you will never get out. Okay. This is too big. It's too breathtaking.

My stomach's in my throat, and it's not even my debt. Believe me, every night it's like I just don't know what to do other than the plan I have. I know what to do. You get on the phone with the other two musketeers, and let's form a strategy for assassinating sally may i mean we are going to say you're putting in 50 everybody's putting in four thousand dollars a month that's forty eight thousand dollars a year all three of us are going to do that or more

because i you know i didn't sign up to commit financial suicide for two rocket scientists. And that's where I didn't understand whether or not I should split my money between the student loan debt and keeping something for myself. No, the problem is it's in your name, and if these two guys decide they're going to be goobs instead of three musketeers, you're really up a creek. Okay. So I'm sure hoping they're not goobs.

I'm sure hoping they're men that will follow through and keep their word and take care of their mama. Yes, they are the best. Okay. Then while we still have that camaraderie, let's get agreement that let's start putting some actual numbers, and all three of us are saying, hey, you know, it's permission to play. I've got to ante up and ante up. Everybody's going to ante up $4,000 a month. Okay.

And you're going to work extra jobs until your income makes it easier to do $4,000 a month because $4,000 a month is $48,000 times 3 is $150,000 into $369,000. Gets us out of debt in two and a half to three years. Oh, God, that would be amazing. Well, it's simple math. Did you do it with me? Divide $369,000 by $50,000. It's like when I was doing the math here, I'm like, I'm looking at seven to ten years.

Yeah, well, you're looking at you doing it by yourself, too. And I am assigning the other two members of the Three Musketeers to assist in Sally Mae's assassination. This has to occur. We have one for all, all for one, baby. You're going to have to start sending all kinds of Three Musketeer memes back and forth and cartoons and have some fun with this. Sally Mae's going down. Moms and dads, do not repeat Donna's life.

You don't want Donna's life. Don't do what Donna did. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, James and Katrina are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Doing great. Doing great. Where do you guys live?

Fort Worth, Texas. Ah, fun. Well, welcome to Nashville. Appreciate you coming up. So you're here to do a debt-free scream. How much have you paid off? $154,000. Woo-hoo-hoo! How long did this take? About three years. Okay, good for you. And your range of income during that time? It was about $90,000 to $120,000.

Okay, very good, you guys. Wait, sorry, Dave. I have to correct you. My name is Katina. Oh, I'm so sorry. No, you are. Oh, that's fine. I had to do it for everybody out there correcting you.

It's right here on the screen, and I just read it wrong. Actually, Kelly got it right, so there you go. Okay. Doesn't always happen, but this time it was my fault. Thank you. All right. So what kind of debt was this $154,000? It was everything.

Yeah. James had a second mortgage. I had a lot of student loans. We both had car loans. We financed our phones. Yeah. I think that was about it. We financed our phones. Yeah. I think that was about it. So you must have just gotten married.

If James had a second mortgage, how did James have a second mortgage and you didn't have one? I bought the house before we met. Oh, okay. Yeah. Okay. And then, and she inherited that mess then when she married into it. So how long have you guys been married?

Since 2013. So come in. About six years. Okay. Oh, IRS too. KGB. Oh, so come in. About six years. Okay. Oh, IRS too, KGB. Oh, lovely. That was another big one. You didn't leave anybody out.

No. Everybody's at this party. We didn't really have any credit cards. Oh, missed out on that one. Okay, wow. No, wait, we had credit cards, but we paid them off every month. Yes. Okay, all right.

Yeah. So. Still bad. What happened three years ago? Well, actually, I think God's been leading me for a while now. And in 2004, I started kind of a journey, and I helped my parents get some term life insurance. And from there, my dad passed in 2008. Oh, my gosh.

Yeah. But luckily, we had gotten him the term life. And that was really good because my mom's been able to survive since then. Sure. 2009 was when I heard about you. And at that point, I only had been four years into that house payment that we were talking about, four years into a five-year truck loan. And anyways, I didn't really think your plan was for me.

And so I just kept going along. But I met Katina in 2010. We got married in 2013. What happened in 16? Got you started on this. Yes. That's the big thing. We actually went on a diet. I brought my belt that started kind of the journey. Oh, wow.

Actually, at one point, we were needing an emergency budget meeting because my belt broke, but I fixed it with a couple of zip ties. Instead of going and buying a new one, I kept this one. You might be fixed it with a couple of zip ties. Instead of going and buying a new one, I kept this one. You might be gazelle intense if you hold your belt together with a zip tie. Yes.

Or embarrassed, one of the two. Yeah. Well, it was under the shirt. All was good. I just kept my pants up. Just drill a new hole, use zip ties. It works. Yes.

He still wears it sometimes. But yeah, 2016, we actually went on a diet. And part of the journey that we talk about a lot with some other people is that we actually led Sunday school and taught the screw tape letters. And in there, he's teaching his young Dementor about how they try and get us with foods that slow our mind and our body. And so about three months after the diet, I was out working and I was thinking I need to make some more money. I was looking for... His own pool business. Yes.

I was looking for ways to build the business and I was looking for a business kind of growing podcast and I came across yours. And I was like, I've heard of this guy. Let's keep listening to him again and brought it home to Katina. Yeah. And I was completely on board. So we started listening to the radio show every morning. We'd listen to the podcast. Like I really couldn't wake up without it. It helped me wake up in the morning. And eventually I started hearing what, and to this point, I didn't really know how to hear the Holy Spirit, but what I've learned now, I started hearing him speak to me and saying, y'all need to teach a class.

Y'all need to teach a class. I was like, well, James, we need to teach a class, but our church is really far away. So we didn't know how we're going to do it. So we started looking for a new church. So little did we know that this financial journey that I immediately jumped on was really a spiritual journey. And God was helping us become more involved in the church and really develop a relationship with him.

So for a very long time, we felt like you're our spiritual mentor. All things work together. Yes. And so we've come so long in the three years, like our relationship with God is like way more than it ever used to be. And we're just so happy. And this has just been spiritual. I mean, financial is great.

But we've become parents since then. And now we're debt-free. We've got a fully funded emergency fund. I'm staying at home with the baby. And life is good. That's amazing. Wow. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is now that you've

done all of this well for me um it was really about contentment um because the journey was so long and if i hadn't been content and didn't need new shirts or new things i think it would have been harder but it was hard during the pregnancy to pause that snowball and not to make any progress as well because I like seeing that number go down. Well, it went down instantly when you came home, right? Well, actually, we were, little Emmett, he was in the NICU for three weeks. Oh, so it turned out a good idea, huh? Yeah. So, yeah. So, no, actually, all of that went towards the NICU bill. So, at least we didn't incur any debt, but we didn't get to throw it at the snowball. Okay. Well,

good thing you did it that way. Yes. Turns out to be a good plan. Well, there you go. So the key for me, though, I think it's just your whole plan. You know Henry Cloud, right? Sure. He's a buddy of mine. Have you heard his How to Heal?

He's talking about the parable of the barren fig tree and how the guy who owns the garden comes to his fig tree three years in a row and there's no fruit and he's like cut it down um and then the gardener that's there says wait let's dig out the soil and we'll put good soil in and we will give it a year and so that's what we did with your plan. You were our advocate saying, wait, you can do this. And then your radio show was the good soil. We stopped going out to eat and being in those scenes where you're tempted to purchase a lot of stuff. We surrounded ourselves in church.

We did the FPU program. We talked about it. And while I'm at work, I can listen to your books. And so we were talking in church we did the FPU program we talked about it and while I'm at work I can listen to your books and so we were talking about that the whole time so it's it's that good soil wow it's being in it well done well said well said that's beautiful you guys are incredible how's it

feel great amazing great I mean I don't know where we'd be I have eye condition where I've lost my I be. I have an eye condition where I've lost my, I still have some vision, but I've lost a lot of it. And it's made it hard for me to work. And so being able to be debt free. And then also one of the pictures is of James's grandparents because he received an inheritance, which helped us finish off the debt and fully fund the emergency fund. And now I'm able to stay at home with Emmett,

which we would have been able to do making $1,000 a month payments for my student loans alone. So they're in heaven saying, touchdown. She's home with a great grandbaby. Yep. And I'm enjoying it. I love being a mama. I love it. You guys are fun.

You know, I think getting out of debt is the smaller part of this whole story. Yeah, definitely. It's a part of it, but it's the smaller part. So it's not like you have this huge reaction to $154,000 lighter, but the journey, what it has done in your life, what you picked up along the way, and what you shed along the way is an important part on this. Well done, y'all. Thank you. Very, very well done. Proud of you.

I'm proud to know you. Good stuff. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. You will be one before we know it, and outrageously generous along the way. Absolutely incredible. All right.

Is Lil' Emmett with you? Yes. He is screaming in another room. Oh, okay. But he's really resilient if they want to bring him back. Well, I think we're down on time. All right. James and Katina, Fort Worth, Texas.

$154,000 paid off in three years, making $90,000 to $120,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Wow. You're debt free! You're debt free! Wow! That is transformation. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Indica is with us in Kansas. Hi, Indica, how are you?

I'm all right. Thank you for having me. Sure. What's up? So I am 43 years old. My husband is 39, and we've been married for 16 years now. And the entire time it's been a bit of a struggle, and this last few years a little bit more, because we've done stupid things and managed to get into debt. And we make about $85,000 a year after taxes. And I know it's doable. I just need to sit him down and get him on board, which I was getting ready to do, except his mom passed. But rather quickly, it was a cancer diagnosis. And within about three weeks, it was all kind of rushed and she was gone.

So part of this is also now his dad, who is 74, is in a huge financial hole. They've been behind on bills, payments, and we're trying to figure out what to do with him because he does have some medical issues. They live about three hours from us, and there is some conversation. My brother has an older brother whose 10 years is senior that because of his dad's doctors being somewhat closer if they move up to Kansas City area,

that there's some talk of having him move here. I love him to death, but I am also extremely scared that if he moves up here and lives with us, I see us in the hole they were in because we'll just take on a lot more financial responsibility and the mental stress of it. I know I work from home quite a bit. We'll probably end up getting me. To be completely honest, I'm not really sure our'll manage to survive all of those stresses at the same time. I'm trying to figure out the right time because I know he's grieving and he has depression.

So I'm trying to figure out the right time to bring up, you know, hey, let's do Dave's plan. Let's put ourselves on a budget. How long ago did does mom pass? It's been about Not even a month It's only been three weeks So it's very recent So it's a lot of emotion Well let's just kind of

Back up a second I mean there's no You've been doing this wrong For 16 years 16 more days is not going to make a difference Right So you've been doing this wrong for 16 years. 16 more days is not going to make a difference. Right. As long as you don't allow it to get worse,

and that's you acquiescing to dad moving in in the middle of all this emotion. Okay. So how old is dad? He is 74. What kind of health is he in he is oh well he's had stroke multiple heart attacks bypasses he has very bad short-term memory issues so one of the big concerns is like he'll forget to take his medication so you know just forget i think i think it's, you know, I think you can just let this sit for a minute. Okay. Just give yourself a minute.

Give your husband a minute. He's grieving. He's got a lot of stuff on plate, a lot of concerns for his dad. The only reason you would need to raise the subject today would be to prevent your father-in-law from moving in with you, and he does not need to move in with you. Okay. Okay. Yeah, that's been my feeling on it. No, you don't need to bring it up, though.

Okay. If it gets brought up, deal with it. But it's not going to, you know, just let them work through their emotions and their options, him and his brother and his dad, and let the thing land without you having to take a stand that is unnecessary very possibly, which would be further alienating to your husband. Just let it sit. Pray for your husband. Pray for his dad. Let them have some time to heal and let them work through this.

If they ask you what your opinion is, you can give it, but I really wouldn't inject yourself into this. Okay. And just let this thing work itself out over the next month or two. It's going to work itself out over the next month or two. That's my prediction. I think the chances of them recommending him moving in with you is very, very low. If they do, then you're going to have to say, no, our marriage is not strong enough.

I'm not emotionally strong enough. And we're not financially strong enough to endure him being here. And so I'm not going to go along with that we're not doing that because i care too much about my marriage and my future and the best way we can help him is for us to get strong over here and him coming in is not going to do that it's going to further weaken us we're not in a position to the only way you can help someone that's hurting is you have to be stronger than they are. And you guys aren't. That make sense? Absolutely.

Okay. And then you start to work on your marriage and your money and you say, you know, we're going to start seeing a marriage counselor. When you said 16 years we've been struggling, were you saying financially struggling or maritally struggling? Mostly financial. We're very happy, yeah. And it's really not been that bad financially until maybe the last four or five years. And then there's a marriage issue because you said,

I don't think my marriage will survive him moving in. That doesn't say you've got a good marriage. That says you have a bad marriage. Right? Right. My marriage can survive people moving into my house. I'm not going to let them anyway, but it could survive it, you know? Right.

So that's the thing. So, you know, when you make a statement like that, you're saying things about your situation out loud. It's okay. We've all been there. And so let him have a little time to heal and grieve his mom and work through some options for his dad. When the smoke clears on that, then it'll be time to address your marriage and your money issues. And I'd start seeing a marriage counselor and get in Financial Peace University. We all need to have new information to have a new

future what got us here what got us here won't get us there and if you keep doing the same thing over and over again expecting a different result we call that the definition of insanity don't we so yep you know and the same thing's true i mean sharon and i you know after we've been married about 10 years we you know it's about four years after our bankruptcy, we had a delayed PTSD effect on our marriage. We about killed each other during the bankruptcy, and then suddenly about four years later, we about killed each other again. It's like it popped back up, you know? And that's when we landed in the marriage counselor's office, and she saved our lives

because we were going to kill each other. I mean, it was ridiculous. I mean, because hillbillies don't just fight. We fight at a different level, you know. And so, you know, it's okay to need coaching on something. We needed tools we didn't have. You need some tools you don't have. Relational tools and money tools.

Agreed? Agreed. No shame in that. That's not condemnation. That's just you and me. We're on the same journey. I'm just a little further down the path is all and so yeah get but but give him some room and because if you pick a fight that doesn't need to be fought you're going to do more damage than you need to just just let

this heal it's probably going to work itself out i'm going to give you a 90 probability they do not recommend he move in with you guys because i think deep down your husband doesn't really want him to either that's my guess so hey if we can help you further you call us anytime that's what we're here for kiddo you're going to get through this and the point is through it this is the dave ramsey show this is what we. It's funny to me when I read an article about somebody, some little journalism student that just got out of school writes an article about this show, and it's the America's Financial Show, and I'm thinking to myself, you know, we do talk about money here,

but not that much. We talk a lot more about just how to live your life really well and, you know, applying experience and wisdom to difficult and hurting situations. And that's really all we're doing all day long here. So we're here to help you. It's that simple. If you want to get out of debt, oh, I can show you how to do that. Twenty million people have done this stuff now.

I can probably show you how. If you've got some other stuff going on, you call. We'll talk to you. We'll help you out. And we'll tell you the truth. We're going to love you enough to tell you the truth, even if you don't like it. Especially if you don't like it, because there's entertainment value in that. That puts this hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books.

Our thanks to James Childs, our producer. Kelly Daniels, our associate producer and phone screener. I am Dave Ramsey, your host, and we'll be back. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show one of the top five most downloaded podcasts last year. To get your daily dose of motivation and inspiration, subscribe today.