The Ramsey Show - App - Stay at a Job I Hate Until I’m Debt Free? (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 10, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225.

You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. So college has gotten crazy. It's crazy expensive. We've all known that. We've got this epic student loan debacle pandemic, financial pandemic, that is eating away at the very fabric of our culture. And as of 2019, if your kid went to a four-year school,

tuition ran somewhere between $20,000 and $40,000, somewhere around there. And depending on the, you know, that's the average. That would include you can go for about $10,000, $12,000 a year to an in-state school tuition. Certainly private is going to be a lot more than that and all kinds of ranges on the private side. But if you're going to save for college, we have always taught to use the 529, one particular type. And the particular type of 529, there's several types. The only one you want is the type that allows you to select the mutual funds and allows you to move the mutual funds if you don't like them. You don't want to get into a fixed plan. You don't want to

get into a plan that automatically does your investment mix danger. You don't want to get into a plan that's prepaid tuition. You want to get into a plan that's prepaid tuition you want to get into a plan where you pick the mutual funds and you have the right and the ability to move them you always have that right and ability with the esa the educational savings account both the 529 and the esa will grow completely tax-free and that tax-free growth makes a big difference if you when you start with a baby and you're saving for 18 years because you could have 100 150 000 in there and really over half of it be growth and no taxes that matters oh big time so we want to get the tax-free bonus, the tax-free growth.

And so we always have taught you to go in baby step five. The first $2,000 a year you can do is an ESA. It's real easy to set up. And it grows tax-free. It's basically a Roth IRA for college. The 529, if you want to do more than $2,000 a year, is available if you select that particular type of 529, if you want to do more than $2,000 a year, is available if you select that particular type of 529. And you've got to be careful.

You've got to watch what you're doing, and you need some help in this to walk you through it. And the trick is to get with one of our SmartVestor pros and let them lead you through the process. I mean, we've got the book by Anthony O'Neill, Debt-Free Degree. There's a lot of ways that in today's job market, we were talking in another hour, Walmart, Target, McDonald's, some of these $15 an hour jobs now. And in this current environment, they're paying for tuition. Yes. But if you're not in that kind of a thing and you don't want to depend on that kind of thing always being there,

so you want to save for your kid's college in Baby Step 5 so your kid doesn't become a statistic of student loan debt. So text INVEST to 33-789, and we'll hook you up with a Ramsey-etted, Ramsey trusted SmartVestor Pro. Now, what the SmartVestor Pros are is these are investment brokers that we have vetted. They have, A, the heart of a teacher. They're going to teach you the 529, teach you the ESA, teach you the mutual funds to put in it,

and show you how you can get the tax-free growth going in your favor. And two really good solid savings options there and how the mutual funds work so that you know what you're getting into in the whole process here. So if you're ready to get your baby step five going, you're ready to start saving for your kid's college, new baby on the scene, that kind of thing, you're ready to go, text invest to 33-789. And between doing that and using some common sense, you should not have student loan debt under any circumstances. That's correct.

And how about this? Let's just throw something else in there. Parents, we've got to ask the question, if our kiddo has an idea of what they want to do, and they've got to get clear on this, is it the only way? Is it the best way? It's a two-part question.

Is traditional college education the only way? Is it the best way? It's a two-part question. Is traditional college education the only way, is it the best way? It's still a great experience. The liberal arts are a wonderful experience for people to learn, but we've got to make sure that we're choosing or helping our kids choose the right path to go do what they want to do. And between community college, maybe a two-year associate's, maybe all they need, and then some specific certification and training to go a path to. So we've got to look at the big picture and not just assume that higher ed is the only way, my kiddo, or that we, if we're transitioning from one career to the next, is the only way we get there.

Sometimes it is. There's absolutely no way around it. Here's what's interesting. When you spend money that you have saved diligently over a number of years you are much more careful that's exactly right with the purchase sure than you are if you just go yeah i'm just gonna sign on the dotted line and borrow the money and walk out of here and impulse my butt into something and that's what people that's how people pick the wrong college yep the wrong university that's too expensive that they can't afford that's how they pick bad degrees

because they just go i just signed up i just went there was very little thought that went into it but when you have saved for 18 freaking years in your esa for your kid and your kid comes in and wants to do something stupid you say no yeah you slam the brakes no you're not doing something stupid yeah you're not going to study some, ridiculous degree in left-handed puppetry and spend the money that I've saved for 18 freaking years to do that. Here's another one. I cited the Wall Street Journal article on Columbia, various big-time name brand in New York, and they followed a story of a guy, Dave, who got his film degree, a graduate level degree in film from Columbia. And he's $333,000 in debt. He's working in L.A. making $60,000 a year.

Well, I got news for you. You don't need a Columbia grad degree in film studies to get a $60,000 job in Los Angeles. You just don't. You can use my proximity principle book, which will sell you for a great discount at ramsaysolutions.com. Less than $333,000, we will. Less than $333,000. Considerably.

Considerably. But this guy's talking about, he says, I'm in debt for life. Yeah. And you could hear it. Even though it was a written article, you could hear the pain coming off this poor young guy. And here's what's happening. I bring this point up to say that

the name brand school there's no statistical data that i'm aware of there's no piece of research that i'm aware of in 30 years that says that the the the sexier the name of the school the bigger the paycheck nobody cares if you don't believe in the borrowed future podcast uh seth godin calls them famous schools famous he's right famous Famous schools. They're famous schools. That's all they are. You went to a famous school. Yeah. You know what that gets you?

Nothing. Bragging rights at the cocktail party. Nothing else. Nothing. Does it get you more respect or more pay? For fun, I got a sweatshirt when we were in Boston that says Harvard on it. Yeah. I remember. Do you cut the grass in it? You don't even Harvard on it. Yeah. I remember.

Do you cut the grass in it? You don't even cut the grass. What am I talking about? I don't even have a sweatshirt. Oh, you just bought it? I bought it, but it didn't last. I mean... Did you burn it?

It just wasn't funny. Did you burn it in effigy? Me wearing a Harvard shirt was just not... It was not believable. Oh, no. No chance. No one would... Everybody would look and go,

No. It didn't happen. This is The Ramsey Show. People all over the country are discovering a faith-based and budget-friendly way of meeting health care costs through Christian Health Care Ministries. Thank you. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Author of the number one bestselling book, The Proximity Principle. And a brand new book that is on presale right now called From Paycheck to Purpose, The Clear Path to Doing Work You Love.

Boise, Idaho, Andrew's on the line. Hey, Andrew, how can we help? I'm doing well. Thanks for taking my call today. Sure. What's up? So my question is, is it worth leaving a job that i don't hate but also is not fulfilling if i have to take a pay cut to do so well i i just have a question on that is that the only option you have to leave this unfulfilling job is a job that pays less well it would be um

it would take me two or three years to get back up to where I am now in a new field. Why? Because I do not have the technical skills in that field. So I'd be switching from sales to accounting. Do you want to do accounting long-term or take accounting and take it higher? I want to do accounting long-term as a CPA working with small businesses. Okay, great. And so what's the qualification process look like? How much financially is that going to cost you? So depending on the year, but 30 to 60 percent pay cut. So I get it.

This year it would be about a 50% pay cut. What do you make? So I make, my base salary is about $65,000 a year. Yeah. And then I bonus, this year I'll probably bonus a little over $100,000. So you make $165,000 a year? No, sorry. With the bonus. $100,000. So you make $165,000 a year? No, sorry. With the bonus.

$100,000 total with the bonus. Okay, so you make $100,000 a year? Yes. Okay. And you're how old? 30. Okay. Okay, so the question I have, though, is there's some training, not just experience.

How much is the training going to cost you, the certification, to become a CPA? What's that actual cost? So I have some school towards it already. Right. So I have about two and a half years of school left. The programs I've been looking at, it would cost me probably about $15,000 to $20,000 to finish up. Okay. So the reason that I don't think you need to take a pay cut is we can stay in an unfulfilling job if it allows us to make the kind of money we need to cash flow and not go into debt

or pay off any other debt that you have to be able to move into the accounting field. But if you take a significant pay cut, it takes everything much longer. Do you understand what I'm saying? I do. So with the pay cut, I would be able to still do it within the three years. Why not do it in one year and not take a pay cut? Fair enough. I think you've created a false narrative.

Okay. You don't have to take a pay cut. Correct. The struggle I have now is I work about 50 to 60 hours a week, and so finding time for school, I have young kids at home, finding the time for school. I have young kids at home. Finding the time for school is difficult, if that makes sense. It makes sense, but it's a separate conversation. First, it's like, so I take a pay cut. I don't think you need to take a pay cut. You shouldn't take a pay cut,

but you still have got to figure out what what do i have to do to get where i want to go and i get that you got small kids but they're small kids they're young kids they don't know how much time you're spending with them if this comes down to how much you really want to get where you want to go and what sacrifices you're going to have to make you know in this particular situation you're gonna have to sacrifice financially uh in that you're saving up money to pay for the qualifications you need you're gonna have to sacrifice financially in that you're saving up money to pay for the qualifications you need. You're going to have to sacrifice some time with the kids. That's just your reality, but that's a short season.

This is not for five years. This is for 12 months. Right. The kids will be fine. The opportunity with this particular accounting firm is now. I guess that's kind of the... So what? That's not the only accounting firm that will hire you and give you the opportunity to climb a ladder.

It's not an opportunity. It's a curse. It takes you backwards. Fair enough. Are they going to, you know, the opportunity would be great if they offered you $80,000 and paid for your tuition and you worked 40 hours a week so that you could go ahead and instead of 60 hours a week at your sales job, take a small pay cut. But when you're talking about taking a 40% or a 50% or 65% pay cut, that's just as silly, man.

This doesn't work. That's so far backward that you're short-circuiting the whole process by doing that. But if these guys really want you then hey they're going to pay you you know they're asking listen listen let me just tell i'm an employer okay we are we're having 300 people this year the number of people that i hire at 65 000 a year that took a pay cut from 165 000 this year will be precisely zero i wouldn't hire you fair enough because it's silly even if you're going well working for ramsey i've always wanted to work for day ramsey he's the best guy on the planet i think he's the most wonderful bull crap

you're taking a 165 to 65 cut or from 100,000 cut, and, you know, I'm a great guy. I'm not that great. Don't do it. Andrew, final word on this. You've got to change your mindset about this current day job that's unfulfilling. It doesn't matter. You do what you have to do so you can do what you want to do. And you've got to change your mindset, change your entire attitude.

I'm grateful for this job because it is setting me up for a future that has to change and then lay in place a game plan that you strategically get after making this accounting process happen for you go get your cpa go get it yeah go get it pay the price pay the price to win and you know but i think you go back to this accounting firm and you say look guys i'm not moving from a hundred thousand to fifty thousand it doesn't make sense what kind of an accountant would i be if i thought that was a good idea yeah it's absolutely right you you should be able to do math to do accounting and so yeah i mean so i can't do that and so if you guys can

give me a much less hit down to about 80 and you'll pick up my tuition and help me get the cpa then this then it's worth taking a little step back to move forward but this is just too deep a cut i wouldn't do it no you do what you want to do you call us and ask we're both telling you no dave here's something here there's some psychology around opportunities and this is a great situation here to to unpack this just because it is an opportunity doesn't mean it is a good opportunity we just walk through this this is a bad opportunity it yes it's an opportunity to do accounting work and to get there but it revolves around too many other harmful decisions slow decisions poor, however you want to classify it. And so there's this psychology of us humans.

We want something really bad. We're not in fulfilling work, and we see an opportunity, and we make it shinier than it is. You've got to look at the entire picture around it, you know, because it's not the only accounting firm. It's not the only entrance. It's not the only ladder. Whatever metaphor you want to use.

And if it's a bad move, it's a bad move, even though it's an opportunity. It's not the only entrance. It's not the only ladder. Whatever metaphor you want to use. And if it's a bad move, it's a bad move, even though it's an opportunity. It's not the only one. You know, this involves purchasing things. It involves any kind of situation where you're having to make a decision. One rule, and I teach this in Entree Leadership when I'm teaching leadership lessons to business people. One rule of decision making. If you want to make a high-quality decision, there's almost no times that you make a high-quality decision when there's only two options. You need more options.

Yes. Lots and lots and lots of options. And as you look at the different options, you go, well, that's a really bad option. And that one has got some good points to it, but it's still a bad option. And that option and that option. And you lay them all out there, and if you've got ten different ways you can do something, ten different job offers on the table, ten different places you can purchase a car, ten different cars you can purchase, and you're starting to compare across them

instead of going, oh, they only have the black one over there. And the black one, and if I don't get the black one, and it's that one thing, and it's a very special, oh, it's a freaking car. And we get all fatalistic about it. And that's right about that time is when you get stupid. So you need more options so that you find a good one. And that's the process.

This is the Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. This is the Ramsey Show in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage. Tim is with us. Hey, Tim, how are you? I'm well, gentlemen. Thanks for having me. Honored to have you, sir. Where do you live? I'm in Rockford, Minnesota. Okay, Minneapolis area. Yeah, a small town a little to the west. Yeah, cool. Welcome. Welcome to Nashville. How much have you, sir. Where do you live? Out in Rockford, Minnesota. Okay. Small. Minneapolis area. Yeah, a small town a little to the west.

Yeah, cool. Welcome. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. How much have you paid off? $77,479. Excellent. And how long did this take you?

13 crazy months. And your range of income during that 13 crazy months? I went from $49,000 up to $75,000. Wow. What do you do for a living? I'm an elementary school physical education teacher. And then for the 13 months, I was delivering pizzas for Domino's, and I worked a golf course for a while. Wow.

Anything it took, huh? Yeah, pretty much. Scratch and claw and get it done. Yes, sir. I love it. What kind of debt was the $77,000? I had a little over $8,000 in a car loan, and then the remainder was student loans. Student loans, student loans, student loans. Here here we go i love it very cool so what happened to you 13 months ago that made you

go crazy like this so uh before i can kind of share the the debt payoff story i want to tell a story that kind of informs how i had the energy and the motivation to do it um coming out of high school i was close to 400 pounds very, just not really taking care of myself. Back then is when I kind of first discovered what gazelle intensity was before I even had any idea of your teachings. Ended up getting into the gym and just working hard seven days a week. And I was able to get myself down to a healthy range and take care of things there. That's amazing. Oh, yeah.

Thank you so much. So you lost over 200 pounds? Yeah. Wow. Unfortunately, after that, some life happened, and I did go back up a little bit. I was up to 336 pounds again. But then it was three years ago or so. I got back on it and got back on the right path, and now I'm back down to where I was pre-putting it back. So fast forward to the debt. I had a conversation with my cousin's

husband, Alan. He had read your book and did debt payoff of his own. And he asked me if I had any sort of plan in place for my student loans or if they were just going to hang out forever, which at the time, my plan really wasn't a plan. I was signed up for the public service loan forgiveness, and I just assumed I'd make minimum payments and eventually it would be forgiven. Alan pointed out that something like 1% of people who had applied were receiving forgiveness, and it wasn't much of a plan at all. And that's where we put together a budget and came up with a plan.

At the time, we said it was going to be 24 months to get rid of it. I already had close to $10,000 in the bank, so that was just pay off the car, got the emergency fund figured out, and we were off to the races from there. Yeah. Okay, cool. So he lined you up on how to do this then? Yes, sir. All right, very cool.

And then how did you connect up with us? Just through him? Yeah. So he gave me a copy of your book. I read the Total Money Makeover and went through Financial Peace University and was instantly hooked just as fast as I took to the gym years ago. I just dove in and got to work. Okay. So yeah, you had already figured out through your weight loss and everything and your career choice and everything else that you can control the guy in your mirror. Yeah. And that wasn't a revelation to you. You just had to apply it to the money piece.

Yeah. Yeah, I just hadn't done it in the financial side of things before, so it was a somewhat easy transition in that sense. Yeah, I've got to ask you because you shared a really compelling how you went back a little bit on the weight. Yeah. Did you have that happen on this debt-free journey, or were you just laser-focused and you never stopped? Were you kind of like a wood chipper just throwing logs in there? Yeah, it was wood chipper this time for the debt.

There was really nothing stopping it. There was only a couple of times along the way where I just felt tired, but never really wavered or went back. How many hours? You just described for us pizza, working at a golf course. How many hours did you log? What was the longest week? At the peak of it, I think I put in 85, 86 hours.

And I was doing consistently 80. Very fortunate to have understanding and patient friends and family and my wonderful fiancee who I met actually during that time. How? It doesn't seem like you had any time to meet a woman. I know. Online dating, it worked out. Oh, okay.

All right. Good for you, man. That's incredible. Just drove by and waved and went on to your next job. We had to get creative in finding ways to find time for each other, but we made it, and now we're here. And now you're free. That's awesome.

How does it feel to be free? Oh, it's incredible. It's hard to describe, honestly. Will you go back? Will you add this back? Will I go back into debt? No, sir. Never.

All right. Good. Good. I'm glad to hear that. You're a hero, man. Proud of you. Absolutely. Very well done.

Thank you very much. Very, very proud of you. I appreciate it. Excellent. Excellent job. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? You know, for me, it was honestly just letting go of the idea that there was a magic pill, silver bullet, or white knight coming to save me. There isn't. There's nothing but you and good old-fashioned hard work, and you just got to put in the time. Also, finding what's

important and making sure that they remain a priority. During that time, I was working 80 hours a week, but I did see my girlfriend at the time, fiance now, and made time to see family and things like that. Very cool. It's all about the balance, right? Very cool. Well done, man. Well done. Very well done.

Excellent, excellent job. What was the hardest part? The hours? Yeah, it was tough oh and um so as as the relationship with with brie grew um it was i started to get her to get to know her kids more and things like that and then they are starting to want more time with me and that's when i knew it was time to quit the dominoes um you know when we got little girls at home wondering when tim was going to be around i was like okay we're done with that but um so the last couple of months i it was just my teaching salary

that that we did it with okay so you kind of that that's cool very cool well when you can see the end it's easy to make some adjustments yeah you got to bust into it till you can see the end yeah very well very well done good job man hey thank you well we got a copy of the legacy journey for you and uh that's the next chapter in your story for sure to build and create a whole new legacy with this new marriage coming up and everything. Do you have a date set? Not yet. This is actually very, very recent. I proposed on my trip here.

Oh! This just happened. We actually went to Ruby Falls in Chattanooga. Yeah, beautiful. Proposed down in the cave. I didn't have a ring at the time because it wasn't planned. But I'm like, I'm never going to be able to beat this moment down in the cave by a 100-foot waterfall.

So I just decided to do that, and then we went ring shopping the next day. Oh, that's great. Congratulations. Oh, that's fun. Thank you very much. Congrats. That's excellent. Best part of the ring shopping thing was I told the gentleman that I was going to be on your show,

and he started to talk about it, and he caught himself as he was explaining, like, financing options. And I'm like, we don't need to do that no thank you yeah i don't think that's gonna work out no that's fun very cool dude well that is fun and we got a copy of total money makeover for you to give away to somebody as well so legacy journey total money makeover thank you man we appreciate you very well done very proud of you. And congrats. And thanks for making us part of your whole story here. That's a beautiful story. I appreciate you guys.

Thank you. Very cool. All right. Tim from the Minneapolis area. $77,000 paid off in 13 months. How? 80-hour weeks. $49,000 to $75,000 during that time.

And now he's free and can work however he wants to work nowadays. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. All right, here we go. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah! That is how it's done right there.

You know, it's almost as if today our theme has been hard work all through all three hours today. So true. And we've seen examples of people who have done it and examples of people who couldn't figure it out. Don't want to try it. Don't even want to work hard. And this guy, man, he's a machine. And turn around and look. See these two little girls that are starting to count on him. This relationship is growing, and he says, I'm going to dial it back now because I can see the finish line and get on across the finish line. That's huge.

It's really huge. What you see there is the commitment to a future, a desired future. And then all of a sudden, the relationship piece comes in. He goes, okay, I'm going to dial it back, and I'm still going to finish. I might finish a little bit slower time, if you will, but it matters so much because of this beautiful relationship and those little girls. I mean, this is what it's all about. It's so much bigger than us. You know, money holds us back from really the desired future that we all long for.

What an incredible story. What a hero. 85 hours at his top week. That is gazelle. If there is a gazelle, that's it. That's getting it. That's getting it. I love it.

This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 9 and 10, The fear of the Lord is the foundation of wisdom and knowledge. Of the Holy One results in good judgment. One half of knowing what you want is knowing what you must give up before you get it, Mitch Albom said. Our question today comes from Blinds.com, great American company. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online window retailer, custom window coverings. This is an incredible company.

You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSEY to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Rihanna in Toronto. She says, I'm 28 years old, and I've been at my retail job for 10 years. I've gone from a temporary associate to supervisor, but now that I've made it there, I'm miserable to pay down debt. I recently started a second job as a hotel night shift auditor, and I love everything about it. I think it's my calling.

My day job pays more than my night job would pay in a full-time position. Should I stay at my day job until I'm debt-free, even though I hate it? Well, Dave, a lot of layers to this onion. But yeah, you should stay at your day job until you can replace that day job with something that you enjoy a whole lot more. But to move into this newfound, I think it's my calling job that pays a whole lot less is not a good move while you're paying off debt. This gets to what we were talking about earlier that, you know, when we find something that we enjoy and we want to do it, the reality is there's always a financial cost, whether it's to get qualified or in taking a pay cut. It's just not a good move in her situation. You've got to

get debt-free. When you get debt-free, keep walking the baby steps out, and then we can begin the process of moving into similar work to that night auditor that pays a lot better they got to look into what is the work the part of the night auditor job that i love so much let's find similar work like that it has a ladder of opportunity that's what i would tell her yeah and then let's get up that ladder because i think auditor would pay more than retail supervisor yeah it should, it should. I mean, I don't know what type of auditing you're looking at, but there's a lot of different categories that that could fall in.

That's right. And that would probably scratch the itch that you've got, the thing that you like about the job. John is with us in Reno, Nevada. Hi, John. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Ken and Dave. Thanks so much.

I'm pretty nervous. It's okay. I'm going to try to summarize my question real quick. So I work for a company. I'm a manager. I report to all of the corporate leadership equally. And right now I'm kind of struggling in my job because there's a lot of factors, but basically I'm finding that my values are at odds with theirs and how I want to do my work. The way that they have me do my work, I'm not proud of it, and it's really, really highly stressing me out. My wife and I are on baby step number two, and we make about $150,000 a year total together. What do you make?

I make $100,000 myself. Okay, and what is it that they're asking you to do that you don't want to do so it's just the there's nothing immoral or unethical it's it's kind of the way that they want me to do my work for example look at me a project i'll be almost 90 done with it then they trash it and it happens over and over again they're very disorganized the corporate team is is disified. They have cliques that disagree with each other, and I'm caught in the middle. And I'll follow orders from this person, then the other person will tell me stop, so I have to stop. I've asked them to get unified, but it's just their modus operandi. It's the way they've always run this company,

and I don't see it changing. What do you do? I'm a medical clinic manager. So give me an example of they've asked you to do a project, you do it, or you're 90% done and then they trash it. I want to know the why they would trash it in that example. Yeah, a good example would be they wanted to start a pharmacy department, so I was laying the groundwork for that compliance-wise, hiring-wise. We were in our final interview with the pharmacist we were going to hire, and the next day they canceled the project. The reason was finances, and that's understandable to me. It's just a complete lack of planning and total disorganization.

They don't really budget carefully, and they don't really follow their plans. Okay, so when they communicated that the finances weren't there, you understood that, but the issue is they just kind of set you off on this path, and they didn't do the planning. That irritates you, and you're getting to a point where you're getting really frustrated. So you're working for a group of medical people, and your job is to run the business. Yeah, my job is to run the clinic here, and it's separate from where the corporate office is, yeah. Huh. So what was your question? You were about ready to get to the question, and we asked you some questions. What was your big question? Yeah, my big question is,

how quickly should I leave? Because I'm pretty sure I'm going to need to leave. I just don't know how hard to push it. I would like to leave right away. My heart's kind of left, but we're in step number two and we're making really good money. And if I were to leave, I want to get out of the state we're in. And if I were to leave, there'd be a move and a pay cut, at least at this point, because I'm very inexperienced and I don't have a degree. So entry level, I'd basically be an entry level manager at whatever position I take up. Well, this is a math thing. So we don't leave a degree. So entry level, I'd basically be an entry level manager at whatever position I take up. Well, this is a math thing. So we don't leave until we've got something good to leave to.

I understand that you're in a really tough situation where your heart's left you. And in a normal situation, if you had no debt and you could just move quickly, then I'd say leave quickly. But I think that you've got to keep this path going to where you're paying off the debt. You guys are making really good money. I would challenge your assumption that you moving into another opportunity where you're running a clinic that you'd have to start all over. I mean, you've got some good experience. How long have you been running this clinic?

Yeah. A year and a half. Then why couldn't you go run another clinic? Who says you have to take a pay cut? That's absolute BS. Yeah. I guess also the root of my question is just how, you know, the company really loves me. They're always telling me they love me.

They're putting a lot of trust in me. They've depended on me a lot. I don't think that matters. I think you left. Yeah. You're sick and tired of their disorganization and the chaos yeah and the disrespect of your work yeah it's only going to get worse for you unless they somehow they're not gonna they're not gonna fix this you're gone so where are you getting this idea that you have

to take a pay cut just uh jobs we're looking at in other areas we'd want to move they usually start around 60,000 up to 80 or 90 000 and um so i think you need to get an 80 or a 90 000 job lined up and so you quit your 100 000 job and then 90 000 has an upside of 120 yep and you don't you don't think it's like i guess i'm really emotional you're like you're shot right up in it because the company's been so good to me other than okay that have not been good to you yeah there's some guilt you're dealing with because you think that they've done all this for you and you leaving them is going to make you a bad guy that's simply not the case you don't owe

them a life of mediocrity they're disaster you're going to end up resenting these people that you're worried about disappointing already resent them well yeah yeah so i mean yeah there's no reason for guilt none none this is not your mama it's your boss yeah i mean you know go just it's a job go you know go get a position with somebody that's organized and that has a game plan and has a mission and you can lead the charge in the mission and go land a job and then turn in your two-week notice and move out of nevada to the place that you're going to go work yeah i have one other thing on this my family is telling me i need to stay because i'm the kind of person that will help them get organized your family is not in charge of your life you are in charge of your life. You are in charge of your life.

I know. And you spent the last five minutes telling us how crummy a place this is and how stressed out you are. And then you spent the next three minutes trying to talk us into how wonderful it is and how you're Superman and you're there to save them. You're the savior. This is a bunch of crap, man. You need to quit. Yeah. After you get the new job.

Breaking news, Dave. His family is not telling him to stay because they think he can turn it around his family's telling him to stay because they don't want him to leave breaking news right there i know i know oh they're in nevada yeah his family is saying i think you should stay because you're the one guy who can turn these wildcats into properly trained felines no they don't want you to leave we're gonna get these butterflies to fly in formation right family doesn't want him to leave yeah that's so sorry or they're just afraid also and that's okay yeah so john you need to go get another job make a 90 with an upside of 120 in a

state that you want to live in and you need need to accept the position and then turn in your two-week notice, sir. That's the answer to you. You're not going to be happy five years from now if you stay in this job. It's not going there. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.

Have a friend or family member that needs a daily dose of Ramsey advice in their life? Let them know about the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast. It's a quick hit of advice about life and money in under 10 minutes. Check out the Ramsey Call of the Day podcast wherever you listen to podcasts.