The Ramsey Show - App - Stop Asking Your Kids To Speak Like Adults! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: March 4, 2021

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Coming to you live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions and broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where America hangs out to have a conversation about life. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. We are taking you through this hour as we answer one caller at a time, giving hope and practical steps to get where you want to be, whether it is in your money, it is in your work, your pursuit of purpose, in your relationships, in your emotional mental health. We are here for you, and we have a blast doing it. 888-825-5225

is the phone number. It's toll-free. Jump in. 888-825-5225. John, as I was saying right before we came on, the only thing missing right now on this giant desk is a plate of barbecue. All manner of meats

and sides. I think that's what this was missing. But other than that, we're ready to go. We have all the ingredients. Just barbecue. Donuts would be good, too. You like donuts? They're not good for you, but I love them.

Yeah. I love them. All right. All right. We'll see what we can get. But yeah, barbecue would be excellent. Yeah. We'll talk to the production team.

We're looking at you. We can get a platter of barbecue and then a side of donuts for Dr. Deloney. I'm not eating donuts, man. I'd fall asleep. Right in the middle of the show. Boom. Forehead down. That's how you know you're getting old when food just... You just talk.

Yeah. I'm out. Yeah. You know you're old when carbs threaten your consciousness. It's like, oh boy. And it's a multi-day event. Yes. I finished a no sugar challenge, Ken, a couple days ago.

Really? I partnered with a Navy SEAL. I was having to text them every day. Not a good idea. Not a good idea. Real people shouldn't partner with Navy SEALs. If I missed a day, the punishment was going to be brutal. So I made it.

My life philosophy is don't ever fall off a wagon, but occasionally you've got to park the wagon and step off of it. How soon after the challenge was over did you get sugar? I made myself go two days. So two extra days. And I went for it. And here after the challenge was over did you get sugar? I made myself go two days. So two extra days. And I went for it. And here's the thing. What was the moment?

What was the thing you cheated with? I did a speech for a group here, and they gave me a fish bowl-sized bowl of gummy candy and marshmallow products of all sorts. It's my sweet spot, as you would say. Yeah, not where I would have gone with it, but you went in Rome. They gave you a bowl. They gave you a bowl of sort of sugar.

And as I was eating it, I thought, this isn't just going to cost me today and tonight. It's going to be a multi-day affair because I'm old. It is true. I'm old. It is true. Well, you're not old. You've got to take care of your body. No donuts, just barbecue would be awesome.

Yes. All right. Well, I'm sufficiently hungry. Let's go help some people. Let's go to Ben, who joins us in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. Ben, how can we help? Hi, gentlemen. Thank you so much for taking my call.

You bet. Well, my question is this. I'm 27 years old. I live at home still. I'm on baby step two. The only debt that I have is my college loans. How much is that? It's about $35,000. It's kind of a sticky situation. I was at another university before I transferred to the university that I graduated with. And after graduating from

there, I received a letter from the Federal Trade Commission that there was a lawsuit for fraud. So it's kind of being investigated right now. But strangely enough, that's not actually my main reason for calling. My main reason for calling is I've always been close with my family. I have six siblings, and my parents are very much about helping their kids and getting them started on their feet, right? And I thank them so much for that. However, lately, I've been butting heads with my father in the sense of moving out and getting on my own. I've brought up the idea of renting multiple times to him, and him being a renter himself and has also had tenants in houses that he does own, he strongly persists that I don't do that and insists that I

stay home and save for a house. I'm kind of looking on some guidance to see if that's good advice, because I'm not getting any younger. You know, my sister's getting married. She's moving out this year. My other brother just bought a house. He's going to be moving out within the end of the year. And I'm kind of stuck if I should move out and rent and start my life or if I should do what my father does. Ben, what do you do for a living, brother? I work in IT for a university here close to Pittsburgh. What do you make a year?

Right now, I'm making $51,000 a year. Yeah, move out tomorrow. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to say this as nice as I can because I trust you that your dad's a good man, and I love that you are connected as you are to your family. You're a 27-year-old man making $51,000 a year. Your dad doesn't get a vote. And if you still owe $35,000 of student loans, you're not in a position to buy a house,

and you need to get your debt paid off and then get a down payment saved up and get an emergency fund saved up, which you can go buy a cheap one-bedroom apartment, start having a life, start differentiating yourself from your family. It doesn't mean you don't love them. It doesn't mean you're not connected to them, but that means that they're not making decisions for you because you're a 27-year-old man. And then you're going to be in a position to buy a house down the road. You're not financially ready for that.

Right. And that's the point that I brought up to him. I'm like, I could get married next year. I could have another job and move. That's not an easy thing to do when you have a house. Let me ask Ben a question. Ben, I'm going to ask you a question so that you can answer and my colleague can actually dive into this. I love this. He's teeing us both up, Ben. Teeing you both up. What's your stomach for telling Dad what John already told you? You already started to come up with more things.

It feels like you're just keeping this thing alive. And I want to know, stomach, meaning you've got the guts to look at Dad and say it exactly the way that John said it. Is it a 1? Is it a 5? Is it a 10? Where is it on a scale of 1 to 10? 1 being I'm terrified to do it.

It makes me sick to think about it. 10, I'm ready to go i just needed permission um i would probably say it's about a 5 or 6 i could tell them but you know i mean we've been so close as a family so you look for that approval wait a second wait wait wait wait wait wait i got one more question john it's all you do you really think that he's going to disown you no of course he's not but you're acting like it i acknowledge john he might be a little upset and think that think his son is not being wise are you are you the oldest man i'm the oldest boy yes i was his first son so it is always a shock to the system the first time a grown child tells their parents i'm grateful for your advice i'm

going east yeah or I'm going west. And that always sends a shockwave through the family system. It will take some getting used to because they're not used to this. They've got six kids, the oldest of which is almost 30, and you're still living at home as though you were 16. Here's the thing. Asking your dad the same advice over and over,

you don't know what he's going to say. So going back to that and going back to that is great. There needs to be a transition from where your parents give you their thoughts on things, but not the answers on things. And this is your moment. Let me tell you something. Let me say this. Hey, Ben, I'm going to give enough time for my colleague to clean this up if I mess this up,

but I'm going to tell you what I think. You're going to give enough time for my colleague to clean this up if I mess this up, but I'm going to tell you what I think. You're going to be right. Listen, Ben, the very man that you are so worried about his approval, if you don't do this, your desire for approval and love and connection is going to turn into deep resentment. I'm telling you. Am I right, John? And resentment is the...

It's a killer. It's the death of any relationship. That's right. So if you don't do what John said, you're going to end up resenting your dad. Because here's the deal. You're head and heart are clear on what you need to do. You're just worried that dad's going to be upset with me. So take him out to a big boy lunch.

You pay. Oh, yeah. Let him know, hey, dad, I'm really grateful, but I've decided to move out. I'm going to start my adventure on my own. I'm almost 30, and it's time. I'm going to start my adventure on my own. I'm almost 30 and it's time. I'm so grateful for your help up until now but it's time for me to move on. This is The Ramsey Show.

We'll be right back. have you ever wondered how to save more money or pay off debt faster what about the right way to invest listen i've been there asking the same questions with no idea where to turn for answers. But here's the good news. You don't have to keep searching for answers. Ramsey Plus will guide you every step of the way so you always know what to do with money next. Ramsey Plus is our step-by-step plan that shows you how to get consistent small wins with money and even some big ones so you can see exactly how you're making progress. Then we can help you turn all those wins into better habits that last. You can be confident you're doing the right thing with money.

And that means no more payments, cash in the the bank for emergencies and a plan for your future get started today with a free trial of ramsey plus at daveramsey.com daveramsey.com that's daveramsey.com The Ramsey Show continues. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. And we are thrilled to have you with us, taking your calls about life, whether it's money, whether it is, hey, I'm not happy in my work. I want to get a bigger shovel. I want to do more.

I want to work on purpose. Or, hey, I've got some mental, emotional stuff. I've got some relationship stuff. I've got some kid stuff. I've got some spouse stuff. Whatever it is, John and I are here to help. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

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Atlanta, Georgia is where Adam joins us. Adam, how can we help? Hey, guys. What's going on? I've got a question for John. Fellow Texan here, but obviously we're down in Atlanta. Hey, we've got to spread the love everywhere, right? I'm in Nashville.

What's up? Hey, man. So, second marriage. Been married 10 years. Got two kids with my first wife, 16 and 14. And 16-year-old has been living with us for two years now. My wife and I are expecting any day now.

And so my 16-year-old is, you know, we're in family therapy and he is extremely jealous and depressed and wants to move out and move home with mom, you know, with the introduction of the baby coming home. So we need some tools that, you know, can help us cope with this and, you know, some things that obviously we can, you know, give some tools to him as well. But as of right now, I now, he's really tuning everybody out here.

We desperately need some help. Adam, the baby's a proxy. What's beneath that? How long has he been struggling? He's been struggling since he moved with us two years ago. What precipitated that move? Why did he have to move in with y'all?

Expelled from school. Alcohol and drugs at 11, 12, 13 years old that nobody knew about. And when it happened, he was expelled. So he's 16 and

does that mean y'all got your was when he was about six, five? Yeah, about three. About three? Yeah, divorced in 2007. He was about three. His brother was just over one years old. Okay. So when he was three, he lived with mom and went back and forth and back and forth?

Back and forth multiple times a year from Texas to Michigan. Okay. So baby is just the latest, man. He's been living with Who Am I and chaotic systems since he has any recollection. In fact, before he's got recollection, his body has stored this stuff all over the place, this level of trauma and this level of dysfunction. And so what does your therapist say? When you all go to family counseling, what are they recommending?

Well, you know, we're kind of pressing the therapist now. We'll meet without him, and then we meet with him, or he'll meet by himself. But, you know, we're just having a lot of progress because he just repeatedly says that he's depressed, but he never has any clarity for that. Yeah, 16-year-olds, man, it's asking a lot of a 16-year-old to be clear, to be able to unpack emotions, be able to unpack feelings, to be able to unpack hormones, be able to unpack hormones, to be able to unpack this, what did I do to cause this chaos that's been present in my life the last 5, 10, 15 years. That's a tall order.

And so the impetus falls on the parents in these moments to do the connecting towards the kid. Do they have to be accountable for their actions? Absolutely. Do they have to have good behavior? Absolutely. They need those boundaries. Those are are important but to sit there and say hey you're telling me you're depressed unpack that for me that's a that's hard for somebody that hasn't been given those tools over the years um what is your relationship with him like one-on-one y'all are out walking somewhere y'all going shopping together you're out fishing together whatever that looks like what's your relationship with him like? Typically one-on-one

it's good. We joke around a lot. We go to the gym and we train together. We do stuff here at the house. We do our yard work together, stuff like that. Our relationship is good, but it seems like his bond is shifting more towards mom here in the past six, seven, eight, nine months.

It's just increasing. And so it's almost like he puts on a persona where everything is fine. He's always smiling and in good spirits and excited when he gets home from school. But when he talks to anybody else, I'm depressed and things of that nature. And sometimes every teenager is different. So I'm not going to be able to give you, hey, you need to go do this, this, and this. But I will tell you that there are some situations where teenagers are looking for ways to connect. And if him saying, hey, I'm depressed, hey, I'm not doing well, is that's what it takes to get the people who love him in his life to stop and look him in the eye and say, hey, how are we doing?

Then they'll do that. Or he's actually struggling and does not have the words to put into context how much he's hurting. My guess is this has been going on a long, long time, and he's continuing to look for different behaviors. And so you're right to press your family therapist. You're in the right place. I would be telling you to go do this, to go find a professional. And if you're not getting some concrete things that can help heal that relationship now, or to help you connect with him now, then get another therapist. Find somebody who's going to give you some practical tips to help heal this relationship. And man, if mom's a safe place for

him to go, I don't have a problem with him going back to mom's if that's where he needs to be to be successful right now. Ken, you've got two teenage boys. Yeah. What's it like trying to get them to connect their words with what's going on in their heart and heads? It would be like trying to sandpaper a bobcat's butt in a telephone booth. I don't even know what that is. Exactly, right? It's hard it's

tough it's it's to the point where you they're only going to tell you what they want to tell you um and you know more about this you know we're learning too that you know at that age they can't even articulate that's is if we think they can because they're 15 or they're 16 and they've got all kinds of words right but then when they have to actually confront their emotions and then there's this, you know, what are they going to tell mom and dad versus what they'll tell friends. And I can tell you from our journey that we can never truly predict, although we have learned that there are circumstances and moods

and ways that we can get them to a point where they will open up to us. They're still deciding. It's not like we sit down and go, tell us. And there's no great technique. You know that. But it's hard. And I think what I was going to ask you in this situation is I feel for this man here. Yeah, it's heartbreaking.

How do the parents stay healthy? And we're going to break. But maybe something to talk about at some point. How do the parents stay healthy when their kid's not healthy? That's tough. You've got to make that priority numerally, though. You have to. You've got to be okay with them not being okay.

That's right. And that doesn't feel very parental. Right. When we come back, let's talk about some of these words that kids throw around that hit us differently than they may be experiencing in real life. Yeah, let's do that. All right, don't move. Parents, pay attention.

Maybe get that teenager to listen in with you right now. I don't know. We'll see what's going to happen. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined this hour by my colleague, Dr. John Deloney. And as we went into our last break, we were talking to a dad, mixed family situation going on, different biological parents, and divorce, second marriage, all this kind of stuff. And he's just really hurting for his 16-year-old who's telling others that he's got some depression going on. But it seems like their relationship is he recounted to you pretty good.

He feels like things are good, but he's hearing this over here. It's confusing. And then I can just tell you as a non-clinical guy here, as a dad of three teens, boy, I tell you what, you just hurt when you feel like your kids are hurting. And so as we went to break, John, I said to you, I said, you know, I think it's so hard for parents to learn how to be healthy when their kids aren't healthy. Or another way of saying it is, how does a parent be okay when your kids aren't okay? And I'm not saying you're okay that things are rough in their life.

Of course you're not. But it's like, how do you keep things in perspective? And John, I'm asking that. Yeah. I'm asking that, too. Because, you know, it just happens. Being a teenager in 2021 has got to be brutal. I've got to believe it's way worse than what we had.

Yeah. So one of the things that I would tell all parents is what you just said. Your kids can't be okay if your marriage isn't okay. Right? And we often get that mixed around. And so couples will break up into into like workforce mode right to make sure the kids are doing these things and what what gets sacrificed on that altar of our kids are busy and they're doing things and everything's exciting and they're happy is our marriage and you gotta

invert that you and the person you're married to you've gotta be okay right and then and only then can your kids anchor into that solid foundation. But I think as the last caller was speaking, I was thinking, man, we've got this passing in the night of we're all using the word depression. It means something different to a clinical person. It means something different to a dad who's got some guilt about a divorce, who's got some guilt about a frustrated kid, 14- and 16-year-old, and now we've got a newborn baby from a new marriage is coming all this stuff has happened

at the same time and then you got a kid that man it seems like things are great when we're around each other but then you go tell other people i'm depressed right so the first the most important thing that that um that family's doing that is right is they're sitting with a with a family counselor how can we work through this with a professional? We got, now we're going to have a blended family. And one of the things I remember, one of my counseling professors, Dr. Aretha Marbley, one of the most brilliant women I've ever had the opportunity to know, said when you have a new kid coming into a situation,

always rally the older kids with the words, your brother, your kid, right? Give them some ownership and some participation in this. Not so much that there's jealousy, not so much that there's a burden here. What that last dad was immediately saying, hey, my kid's frustrated because he's jealous. Man, it's so much deeper than that, right?

These kids, these teenagers are desperate to heal that chaos and that frustration and that burning. Why did my parents get divorced the first time? Why do I have to choose between these two parents? Now you're bringing another kid in. What are you doing? It's 2020, right? Oh, I'm just going to stare at a screen all day, right?

It's all of that. So parents, you got to stop asking your kids to speak like adults sometimes. They don't have the language to articulate their emotions and all of their feelings and all of the this's and that's. They can communicate with connection. They can communicate with, can we just go play ball? Can we just throw?

I'm not going to ask you more questions. I'm not going to give you more advice. Can we just go, can we have breakfast together? I'm going to make you have breakfast with me. You can sit in silence, Goodwill hunting style. We can ride this out in silence, but we're going to do this and I'm just going to tell you have breakfast with me. You can sit in silence, Good Will Hunting style. We can ride this out in silence, but we're going to do this, and I'm just going to tell you I love you, right?

If your kid is experiencing hopelessness, if your kid is experiencing helplessness, if they used to be really good and find things really exciting, and suddenly they just fall off the map, that's when you know, hey, we're struggling here. Dig into those relationships with those kids, kids right and if you do all of a sudden if you have a 16 and 14 year old and all of a sudden you find out hey we're having another one yeah man get way ahead of that right get way ahead of that if your kid tells you i want to go

live with mom and mom's safe sit down all right with mom and therapy yeah it's it's not your battle to lose man you want your kid to be safe and be okay so there's a lot of mess there man but at the end of the day make sure sure your marriage is whole. Make sure you're good. Don't give up on these kids. Yeah. Good stuff there. All right. Let's go to New York City, New York, where Alexandra joins us. Alexandra, how can we help? Hi. I wanted to first thank you both for taking my call and speaking to me today. Really, really love the show and love all you guys. Thank you. And Dr. John, congrats on your recent show. I've been enjoying that as well. Thank you so much. I only got about three listeners and so you're one of them. So I appreciate you. Sure. You have way

more than that. So what's up? My question. Yeah. My question for you both is, how can I feel more secure about money? I'm 32 years old. I was always a spender. Coming out of college, I was luckily able to not have any debt thanks to father paying for my tuition and really started above where a lot of my peers were, but lived always paycheck to paycheck, moved out on my own with no cushion or savings and basically spent most of my twenties doing that and, um, was able to actually reverse that and learn to budget and save up a good chunk of money in my mid to late twenties about three years ago. But, um, ended up due to some unforeseen circumstances with a bad apartment where the landlord wasn't able to provide a healthy living environment.

Made me use a chunk of that to move and living on my own. I just spent all my feelings away just because I ended up going through like a depression of some sort. I really used the money I had saved up and it ran out before I knew it and fell back into that paycheck to paycheck cycle. Since then, I've worked with therapists and I feel like my mental health has improved. But it wasn't until a year ago when the pandemic hit that I feel it was the worst and best thing that could have happened to me. Yes, worst case scenario happened with work-life balance lines have blurred. But, you know, it really got me to focus on my finances. I got furloughed temporarily for three months starting in April.

So I was able to save a lot of my unemployment up until then. And coming back from work in July, I was really able to make a decision to move out of New York City. Alexandra, we only got about two minutes before we got a commercial break. And your question is, how can I feel more secure about money? So do you have any debt? I know you were debt-free coming out of college. Have you acquired debt or are you still debt-free? I have 3K in debt just from a 0% credit card that I bought a MacBook computer in,

which I could pay off tomorrow. I have $24,000 in savings. Okay, so here's the deal. Alexandra, Alexandra, here's what you do. You got $24,000 in savings. You're back working, correct? Yes, and I've increased my job since my income increased 50%. Great, so here's the deal.

Since November. The way you feel more secure about money is to understand who is in control of your money and you are in control of your money. Once before, you have saved up a lot of money. You went through a tough season of life and you spent all of that savings. But now you're on your way back. You got $24,000 in savings. You have figured out how to do this a couple of times. So you've got to work our Ramsey Solutions baby steps. And so take $24,000. You need to cut a check tonight.

You need to pay it as soon as this phone call is over. And so now you're going to be down to $21,000. You need to pay off that credit card and cancel the credit card. You don't need it. So now all of a sudden you have no debt. And then you are working on that's Baby Step 1. Excuse me, debt snowball. Pay off the one debt.

Now we're going to work on Baby Step 1. Excuse me, Debt Snowball. Pay off the one debt. Now we're going to work on Baby Step 2. Excuse me, Baby Step 3, which is your three to six months expenses. So what is that amount of your salary right now? What is three to six months? $25K. All right, so you're almost there. You're right there, yeah. So now you're almost done with Baby Step 3.

If you want to go to six months, I would. Why not? Go ahead and really save. Get really secure. You want more security? six months, I would. Why not? Go ahead and really save. Get really secure. You want more security? Have a bigger emergency fund. We recommend three to six months. So you're ready.

So that's how you feel more secure. You follow the plan. And goodness gracious, I'm so excited. I got the baby steps all mixed up. I know what they are, John, but she's there. She's right there. She's at baby step three, and now she's going to say 15%. That's baby step four. And for income, now she's there. She's right there. She's at Baby Step 3, and now she's going to save 15%. That's Baby Step 4 of her income.

And now she's a young lady. She's going to be a network millionaire if she just keeps on saving. Folks, security comes with a plan. Security comes with discipline. Keep doing the right small things. Don't overthink it. Just do the right thing, and security comes your way. All right, don't move.

More of your calls coming up. This is The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Dr. John Deloney, as we take your calls about your life. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Let's go to David in Cincinnati, Ohio. David, how can we help?

Hey, gentlemen. How are you doing today? We are loving life. What's going on? That's awesome. I have a question for you. I'm in the process of needing your guidance on going about how do I search for a new career? Is there suggestions that you would have that maybe like a,

I don't know if there's like an aptitude test or things of that nature that would just give me some ideas of different career options that I might be able to get into? Sure. Let's start with what you've always wondered about, because a guy who calls up and says, hey, I'm thinking about switching, at some point in your life, you had some other ideas and wondered about some things that you might do when you grow up. Maybe it was when you're nine, maybe it was when you're 19, maybe it was nine months ago

or nine minutes ago. Let's start there, because I'll walk you through this, but I want to know what you've wondered about. The only thing that I've ever, my only passion I've ever had has been law enforcement, and I'm probably a little bit too old to get into that right now. How old are you? I'm 45. Nope, you're not too old.

Yeah. Excuse one, gone. Yeah, so why law enforcement? Tell me why. I'll tell you what, guys. I'll blow your theory out of the water. I've applied for FHP twice. I've been denied both times.

I've applied for the city of Orlando. I've been denied. I've applied for the city of Cincinnati and been denied. So, guys, come on. I can only take so much of that before you really feel like it's never going to happen. You know what I'm saying? Okay, hold on. Hold on.

I get that. It's one of those things where it's a little tough. I get it. And I understand you're a human being. I know you are. I was about ready to say you're discouraged, but you're also wrong. And I don't want to beat up on you too much because you're already discouraged. But let me tell you something. 45 is not too old. There's no manual. There's no unwritten rule throughout the United States where these local law enforcement officers

or even federal law enforcement officers are saying, well, 45 is too old. But I'm going to tell you this, if you feel like you're too old, you'll act like it's not an option and you won't stay with this. This is a tough field to get into. You're talking to a guy who got into broadcasting starting at the age of 33. So I'm not going to allow you to keep telling yourself this, but I want you to answer the question that I asked you. I'm going somewhere with this. Why do you want to be a law enforcement officer? The biggest reason is I like the diversity. I like the different opportunities.

I like to, I like the, it's not, you can, yeah, you can stop on the side of the road and help somebody, but there's also a risk there. So I like the fact that you have the authority to stop and say, hey, how can I help you? Is everything okay? Along with, of course, enforcing law, and when there's things that happen, you're the one that responds to it. And it's not a question of, oh, you know.

So it's not just, well, yeah, you know, so it's not just, well, yeah, you can be a good Samaritan, but it's just having the ability because it's expected because it's your job. And so it's not like, oh, well, I grew up here and the streets were like this and now the crime's bad and I'm going to go out here and be the Superman and save it. I'm not trying to do that. There's always been something that appealed to me.

I like investigation. There's things about that that really appeals to me. So it was always something that's been my passion. Yeah. And of course, you know, yes, why didn't I pursue it years ago? Well, I tried. And then, quite frankly, some of the people that I talked to that were in it said that it probably wasn't a good idea to do when I had my children.

And it made sense. Okay, so. And now that my children are gone, I tried it again. Good. And I, you know. And here's what I want you to hear. I wanted you to list out all the reasons why this kind of work fires your soul up.

You did a great job of listing it out. What you've got to then say is, is law enforcement the only way to do that kind of work? I'm going to challenge you here to realize that it's not just law enforcement to do that kind of work. What are other ways to protect people?

What are other ways to serve people? There are functions and roles that a law enforcement officer does during the day that exist in other places. So I want you to expand your mind. But I also want you to understand that you getting into a law enforcement job is all about why I wrote the book, The Proximity Principle, which says in order to do what you want to do, David, you've got to be around people that are doing it in places where it is happening. What does that mean practically? That means you have got to spend time with police officers or federal officers. You've got to get to know them, and they get to know you, and then all of a sudden,

you're not just a nameless, faceless person who is applying for a job. You are somebody who has come highly recommended. Hey, let me tell you about my friend David. This guy's got the chops. He's got the passion for it. And they start making connections for you. They're ultimately not going to get you hired, but they are going to put you in a position where you're not just somebody competing against somebody else. So all of a sudden, the 45-year-old has a chance to beat out the 35-year-old because

of the relationships, John. And I'm telling you, that's how you get in hard-to-get-in fields that are so very competitive. You've got to have that edge, that relationship. Now, I've talked to callers on the show, and I want to call this out, who have said, it's hard to get that recommendation kind of officially. And I understand that. So don't go official. You still have relationships, it's hard to get that recommendation kind of officially. And I understand that. So don't go official. You still have relationships and you can meet people.

So this is a situation where you can't get discouraged. You've got to get determined. And it sounds cliche, but that's really the case. He's not too old. No, and man, when you call somebody, and this is something, man, it's just become a challenge for me to process personally with my family, with what's going on in the country. When you call two people, one of which has – I come from a law enforcement background. I've spent my entire career working with law enforcement, both on the payroll and in my communities. And a guy who has a nationally syndicated show

helping people get with their jobs, and your response to their feedback is instant anger, instant discouragement. You've got to be reflective enough to say, am I applying for these jobs and I'm not getting them for another reason, or am I going to create a reason why and it's because I'm too old. I'm going to come

up with the thing that I think the answer is. I want somebody who is inventing answers or getting discouraged or getting rejected. I know it's frustrating. I know it's hard. You've got to listen to the truth. When people tell you the truth, hey, it's not because you're too old.

What else is holding you back? What else is leaning on you? Ken, what do you tell folks who are struggling with rejection after rejection after rejection? They're searching for a job, searching for a job. What advice do you give to them? Well, so what we do is we retreat to clarity. Okay. So let's get back to clarity on who I am.

So do I have the talent to be a law enforcement officer that's a hard i know our thing right well but hold on but but you do a self-assessment then you get other people in your life who are truth tellers who know you well but will tell you the truth right not the american idol mom who tells their daughter that or son that they can sing and they can't sing yeah so we go back and wait wait a second do i have all of the required skills and talent that this job requires? That's number one. Can I pass?

If I get into the academy, can I pass? Can I do it? You've got to do that. So then we move to passion. Do I love this work? Right. How much do I want to do? That's why I asked him, what's your why?

Why do you want to do this work? Let's re-clarify why. Because then that gets the heart feeling good again, right? So we're discouraged. We're down because we got passed over. That's very personal. Yeah, it is. So we got to snap back.

One way to do that, do I have the chops to do this? If the answer is yes, check that box. Do I love this work? Am I passionate about it? If the answer is it makes your heart beat thinking about doing that work, oh, check that box already. And now does that work produce results that really, really fire your soul? Like you want to do this for the community. I want to protect them.

I want to serve them. Right. I want to put a different brand on law enforcement. I want to be this guy. Now we've got check, check, check. So now we're clear again. Yes, I really want this. You're going to weigh back in.

I know why. And that gives me the juice to step back in and face rejection again. Because here's the deal. None of us, John, like to be rejected. No. And especially about something like David. Man, I've wanted to do this for a long time. Yep.

And then my kids got in the way, and I stepped out, and I'm stepping back in. He's wanted to do this for a long time, and he's really down because it hasn't happened. Here's the deal. You've got to double down. By the way, Kelly, I meant to give David a copy of my book, The Proximity Principle. David, you've got to read this and do it. Because the reality is that, John, I'm telling you, when the normal resume process isn't turning something for you, will you at least try my process? I know, right?

Because it works. And, David, I want you to go find a law enforcement friend of yours and let them know. I've applied to all these places. I'm missing something, man. Send some feedback. What should I be looking to? I'm missing something. Because a lot of times people don't get feedback. Yeah.

All right. Hey, I want to thank our producer, James Childs. I want to thank our associate producer, Kelly Daniel. I want to thank my colleague, John DeLong. Dr. John DeLong. Just regular John is good. America. Thank you for listening.

This is your show. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey guys, this is Kelly, associate producer for The Ramsey Show. Did you know that over 16 million people listen to The Ramsey Show every week? And a lot of those people listen on one of our 600 plus radio stations across the country. To find a station near you head to Dave Ramsey.com slash show.