The Ramsey Show - App - Stop Hoping Someone Else Will Fix Your Money

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

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Normal is broke and common sense is weird. So we're here to help you transform your life. From the Ramsey Network in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio, this is The Ramsey Show. I'm Ramsey personality, George Camel, joined by my good friend Dr. John And we're taking your calls at AAA 825-5-225. That's how you join the conversation. Jesse is kicking us off in Minneapolis. Jesse, how can we help today? Hi. See, I am calling because I have a freshman daughter new to college, and my husband and I recently found out that she opened a credit card. she knows we're against that my husband tossed around the idea of kind of giving her an ultimatum

that if she doesn't close it we will not provide her the funds from her 529 and I'm just curious your thoughts on that we haven't talked to her about that yet but we're just trying to figure out how to navigate it. How did you find out about the credit card? Well, when she was home on Thanksgiving break, she goes to a college fairly close to home. I saw it in her wallet. How do you see it in a wallet without opening said wallet?

She has like a little, it's like a thing attached to her lanyard. Oh, okay. She has her student ID in it, and then her debit card, and then she doesn't know that you know at this point. She does know, because I asked her about it. Okay. Did she get defensive? Was she like, well, here's why I did this? Not really. I mean, she didn't get defensive. She was kind of open at first, but then didn't really want to tell me what the balance was on it.

Oh. Was there an agreement? Hey, we're going to pay for school, but you have to go completely debt-free. You're not going to go into debt. You're not going to open a credit card. What was the conversation like? I don't feel like we ever had a specific conversation, but as she turned 18, I do recall, like, seeing, you know, credit card offers come in the mail and just told her kind of like, please don't ever open one. Please don't open one. I mean, I just, she knows we're against it. So I just want to call out, George, the joy of this show is sometimes people call them and the, and the, They're like, I found cocaine in my son's room. And then I found my daughter has three husbands. And then occasionally it's like, she has the Delta Sky Miles card.

I found a Discover card. It's so great. Okay, so in George, jump in here. Like, Jesse, my rule of thumb is always. A, I expect my kids to explore and press boundaries and see if they hold. okay so it's it's a it's a feature not a buck the second thing is is there's tons of things that i like and i regularly bad mouth to my son like country music he loved and by the way i love it i just like to harass him how short um young teenager shorts are i think shorts should go

past the knee to mid shin like they did in the late 90s he disagree right so he also knows that me and my wife um don't borrow money that's number one. So I expect him to roll his eyes to say, oh, dad's into that, but I'm not. And mom and dad have a reason for X, Y, or Z. And I'm becoming, he's, he's growing into a late teenager, right? But your daughter's 18. She's a young adult, right? She's turning into her own woman. And so I would say, as someone who's worked with college students, my whole career, hearing you say I don't like something is far different than you sitting down

and saying here is an expectation that we have if you want to accept this here's the bargain that you're going to make with us but you getting upset because you all have this firm belief about a thing so take debt off the table that's too easy this is the Ramsey show let's say you told her you can drive this car

but in order to drive this car you have to go to this church then she has a choice to make. Do I want this car or do I want this? But it feels to me awfully caustic to circle back and say, hey, we did not give you a firm boundary or a firm set of responsibilities if you're going to take our money.

You know how we feel about things. That's fine. That goes into a bucket of a whole bunch of stuff mom and dad like and don't like. But this is if you're going to take our money, here's what our expectations are you need to make these grades you got to go to class this much if you take out debt then this is then you are choosing to not accept our money and so i think if i'm going to sit on a jury here i'm going to side with an 18 year old and say

i know mom and dad hate this mom dad hate a bunch of stuff they weren't and then to pull out my college funding feels caustic without sitting down and saying hey we weren't clear this is that big of a deal to us and that's our fault we weren't super clear on our expectations for you but if you pull college fund you take the 529 and by the way even your language it's y'all's money it's y'all's account but you called it your her 529 her college fund and that's the language she's going to hear is mom and dad got mad and through a temper tantrum but a thing I did and they took away all of my college fund as a way to force me as a young adult to do something she's going to either a do it at a spite or she's going to not do it and you're going to cash out your

relationship with your kid yeah you get what i'm saying so it's your money you can do it ever you want to with this but man i think it's the right honorable thing is to sit down and say we mess this up on the front end we gave you this huge blessing called college paying for your college and we didn't set our expectations for you choosing to accept this money or not. And so we're going to reset that. Okay. If you think it's worth losing, I mean, if, I mean, that feels like, play it out. I'm a future thinking person. So I go, okay, she's going to probably go into crippling student loan debt now and we're going to lose the relationship. I'm like, this is going to harm you guys more than it's going to harm her. I mean, she'll be suffering

financially, but you guys are going to go, why did we, was it worth it to teach her the lesson? Instead, I would dig in and say, hey, why'd you open the card? Like, what's behind that? What you hoping to accomplish? Because if it's trying to save up, but we can help you do that. If you're trying to get a credit score, we can show you why you don't need that for this stage of your life. And I think getting to the root of it and owning it, like John said, hey, we didn't do a good job setting this up. There was no contract in place that said you lose your 529 if you open a credit card. So it does feel caustic and a little bit reactive. So I would try to just calm yourselves emotionally, have the conversation with her, and then go from there. But I personally wouldn't

pull it. And this is the Ramsey guy. If my daughter opened a credit card, I would be heartbroken. Absolutely. But when I pull two decades of savings away from her as punishment, I don't think I could do that. I would rather see her stay debt-free on the student loan side and figure out this whole credit card debacle separately. And here's just sitting with college student parents over the years. I would do everything I could to, A, be clear and B, continue to be a place my daughter will. call when, not if, but when something happens, whatever that something is. A bad grade, a bad event, a scary thing. Shame eats secrets for breakfast. And so the fact that when you said, what's the balance on that card? She said, I'm not going to tell you. That means that that 18-year-old

didn't feel safe enough to tell her mom. So this might be a great place for you to go out to take her breakfast one day and say, I haven't fully told you my experience with dad. Here's what happened. Here's what I did when I was 22. Here's how long it took us to pay it off. And this is why it's such a big deal. We love you. We love you. And then if y'all want to say, you want this money, you do this, you can do that.

John is in Boston up next. What's going on, John? Hey, good afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call. I'm a big fan of you guys. I just had a quick question in regards to, you know, how should I approach my student loans? I have $94,000 in student loans, and I make a salary of $75,000 a year. Um, the reason I ask how should I approach it is because I work for my local government and I'm eligible for the public service loan forgiveness program. And I'm also reading the, uh, baby steps millionaires book and step two obviously talks about attacking your loans and going gung ho. And so I'm just questioning, should I attack my loans and go gung ho and just go crazy on them or should I, you know, take advantage of the loan forgiveness program by working for my local government and, and, you know, making small and monthly payments and then saving.

and investing the rest. So just wanted your advice on how to approach that. Let me ask you this as a guy who's, how long have you been working in local government? I've been working in local government. It'll be six years in March. Very cool. So when you see what happens at the local level

and at the state level and at the federal level. Yeah. Is there anything about your experience, both like your lived experience and what you see going on? That makes you think in any shape, form or fashion, you can predict what any member of any government is going to do in four years? I don't think there's, yeah, no, I can predict that.

If you did, I would connect you with our friends at better help because you'd need a therapist. Like, yeah, it's all I know is my lived experiences was working as a dean of students at a law school. And I had some of the most amazing young men and women who had incredible minds. And they chose to not go into private law because they wanted to serve the least of these in their communities. And they chose public service. And they chose public service because of the, do this for 10 years and we'll pay off your loans. And the amount of them that got denied over and over and over again made me so sour on this deal. And it comes down to who do you trust?

And in this situation, like based on what you're saying, I trust you way more, way more than anybody. making some promise just to get themselves elected or reelected. Do you have any other debt, John? No, that's just about it. The student loans is... Have you actually signed up for the program yet? Like, how far into it are you? So that's the thing.

I'm currently in the master's program. So while I have been working for the state government, I'll be graduating, God willing, in May of 2026. So I wouldn't start until May of 2026. Okay. And then it's 10 years from that? It's 10 years from that, yes, so hopefully... Okay, so how old are you now?

I'm currently 28. All right, so let's say, like, by your 40th birthday, maybe this shakes out. Or another way to say that, three presidential elections from now. And here's the thing people don't think about, John, because they get starry-eyed that their hundred grand is going to disappear. Number one, your balance will likely grow until that number gets forgiven, and you're going to be making payments that entire time for 10 years. So you need to add up what that's actually costing you. and, by the way, the amount that's forgiven is taxable. So you're going to owe taxes on top of that while the balloon has grown,

while you've made payments for a decade, and let's hope that it all shakes out perfectly. And so that's my fear. I'm not like angry against the program. Like, I love to see someone working for their community, you know, have a benefit like that. I just don't think it's worth it. I love that idea. Yeah. But for your personal life, John, because I'm rooting for John versus like the system,

I think you could get out of this debt realistically. within two to three years max if your income doesn't go up. And so the question is, could I like put a little umphin to it and be done in two years and have the next eight be free? Or do I want this living in my head rent free

for a decade going, oh gosh, I hope it works out. I'm making that payment again. I hope it works out. And that's my heart for this. I'm rooting, I just believe in John more than PSLF. I hear that. Yeah, that's, I mean, again, I've been using the loan simulation calculator,

that my loan provider has, and, you know, it's not the most, it might not be the most accurate, but it's the closest thing I have using that calculator. And I'm, you know, thinking about maybe throwing, you know, two grand a month out my loans. And, you know, the calculator states that, you know, you'll be paid off in, you know, four and a half, five years if you just do that. And that's if you do nothing differently. That's if your income doesn't go up, you don't try to, you know, ratchet the expenses down. And I just think when you won't, when you have that goal to become debt-free,

all of a sudden you go, I'm willing to make more. I'm willing to spend less versus, kind of sitting on the sidelines hoping that an exterior force changes your life, that's the part that worries me. Because then you, that's how you operate through life, is you go, well, it's not up to me. I got to find out if there's a program that can fix this instead of John being able to fix this. And here's another thing that people don't take into that calculation. If you're really good at your job, you know what you're going to have, tons of opportunities.

You're going to meet somebody. They're going to want to move across the country to be by their parents when you're have twins accidentally and part of the calculation will not be freedom and not what do we want to do and what cool opportunities do we have in another local government in the state government in another state or in a new for-profit entity it will be but I got to stay here for four more years and so there's a never this never gets taken into the calculation is a decade of sleepless nights because you are owned by somebody else because now you need that job. I have to have that job. I'm already this far into it. So I'm going to not do something that

could be a good opportunity, not do something that's going to be best for me and my family, not go whatever, because I'm stuck in this thing because they have a hundred grand set of golden handcuffs around my wrist. And I just don't, I just saw my students deal with it. And I don't have, George, you may have it. I don't have any of the data. When I left, it was like, 98 or something some crazy percentage we're getting denied yeah and so i don't it might be 96 now like it slowly it might be better now and i let me reiterate as a taxpayer i love the idea that my tax dollars go to getting some of the best and brightest minds and hardest working people into serving people in local communities i love that idea right but i don't get to make

that choice and so that that's i mean or to put it this way I went and paid my student loans off as fast as I could and I was working at universities was a nonprofit. I qualified for the same program I worked as hard as I could and got those stupid things done. So it's not just me, I got some skin in the game too. I did that because I just didn't want to be beholden

to whatever person in office holding that over whatever thing they wanted to do 10 years from now. That's a fair point. I appreciate that perspective and that is something I don't think I ever took into consideration, and just the future landscape of it. Yeah.

And can I throw one more thing at you while you're on the phone? If you don't have the cash to pay for a master's program, I would tell you, postpone it. Hold off because that's yet another set of shackles. I hate to disappoint you that. I'll be finishing that master's program in May of next year. You're not disappointing me. I don't owe, I don't owe, I don't owe student loans anymore, but I do know I had six figures of student loans and I didn't sleep for years. It made me insane. I had to say no to opportunities. I had to do different things, live in a different house, drive a different car because of that choice I made. So even if you had to submit a letter of, I need to take a semester off, and so I can earn some more money and they may want you as a student and they're going to give you a scholarship, or they say, great, we'll pick you up next semester. Whatever you need to do, I just want you to know you're not stuck in a track where you have no options.

I want you to reclaim your freedom. What's the master's in? The master's in urban planning. Okay, and that's the exact field you're in. Does it come with a pay bump immediately? I'm not in the current field at the moment. However, the jobs that I'm looking at do come with a significant pay bump once, you know, obviously once I'm done with a program and get selected for the position that I apply to.

Yeah. So let's say by next fall, could you be more? making six figures? Definitely low six figures. There are, but most likely probably mid the high 90s. Because I'm just wondering, you've got two grand, you can throw out the debt now. What if you had another two grand because of the pay bump, and you kept living how you're living? And now we're debt-free in two years.

Yeah, I mean, again, that is something I'm taking into consideration. If I do, my intent is, you know, within the next few years or a few months to get a significant pay lives. Or what if you have six or seven years of working in local government and you have this graduate degree in urban planning and a construction firm hires you to help them navigate government contracts and they're going to pay you a quarter million dollars. Right? So not attaching yourself to this government program 10 years from now allows you to keep all of your options open. Christmas is almost here and our deals are still going strong.

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$13 career assessments, $12 for questions for humans decks, and $799 audiobooks and e-books. Get it all. Ramsey Solutions.com slash store, or if you're watching on YouTube or podcast, you can click the link in the description. Annie is in San Francisco up next. What's going on, Annie? Hi, guys. How are you doing? We're good. How are you? Okay. I was bad. I'm okay.

What's going on? So, we recently had our daughter, our 19-year-old daughter, she moved out of the house with her boyfriend. She dropped out of school. And in one of the many, well, not one, but a few of the many heated conversations. I would say arguments. we would have, um, we will be very clear about what would be removed if she

would to go out of the house. Um, and among those, it was, um, removing or not being responsible for her health insurance. Now, she was born with the, uh, heart condition she's been having, um, she's been having a few surgeries over the years. And now that open enrollment, it's going on, I told her that she needed to find a way to be responsible for her own health insurance. The last conversation I had with her and I told her, you know, you need to look into

this. It's almost, it's almost 15 and opening enrollment, it's going to come to an end. then we need to see what she's going to do with insurance. She gets mad at me. She said, why are you doing this? You know, you can't take me out of insurance. And I know I can. What are you trying to accomplish by taking her off, taking away her health insurance?

So she thinks that living with her boyfriend and her boyfriend's house is just being, she pretty much went out of the house to be free of responsibility. Is it to be free of responsibility or to be free of you? Well, I guess free of everything because being at home, she had to bring me good grace. She had to be at home at a third time. Okay. So I don't know that it's free of responsibility. It sounds like she wants to, because she's going to have rent and she's going to have to do stuff at this new place, right?

No, that's my thing. I don't think she's being responsible over anything. So do you think cutting her off health insurance will make her more responsible somehow? Especially with a heart condition that you know she's going to need surgery for? Because here's what it sounds like. It sounds like you're less, even more than punishing. It sounds like you are trying to control what an adult does. Right? Well, in mind, but on the other hand, I want her to know that being an adult has a lot with it.

I got that. If you were like funding her drug addiction, I'd say, yeah, no, this is enabling. Let's cut her off. But access to medical care, I don't think is directly connected to this relationship, decision she made. We can agree on that. Right? Because I read the prodigal son. I don't know that the dad kicked his son off health care when he left the house with the

inheritance. I assume he kept him on the plan. The family plan went, all right, hopefully he comes back one day. I can't control him. And lo and behold, he came back. And so I just think there's a piece of this that you might need to let go and then let her test these boundaries, let her figure this out for herself a little bit. but I don't think the health care should be a condition. It feels, tell me if I'm wrong, my guess is this conversation escalated. You're going to have to get your own cell phone.

You're going to have to pay for your own car insurance. You're going to have to pay for your own gas. And she's like, fine, fine, fine. And then you went with a nuclear option, which is, I know you've got a heart problem. I'm going to pull that funding off the table too. And now it's hard to walk that back. Is that fair or did you come out of the gate with that? Not really because we, since she was young, we were teaching her

and how to be responsible in many ways. I know, I know, but what you're telling me is you taught her all of these things and she still doesn't have that message. Do you get what I'm saying? My mom hard, it's telling me that I should keep covering her health insurance, but at the same time, I want her to know that Adelhorn has all of it within. I got you. So all I can tell you is in this situation what I would do in my house.

And I have a young daughter. If my daughter had a medical condition and she was making a, what I thought was a boneheaded, idiotic, 19-year-old decision, I'm not going to put her life on the line to prove a point. I will sit down with her and say, I love you. This door will always be open for you. You know what I think about the decision or decisions you're making is, and I can't contribute to that.

So you're going to be on your own with your car insurance. You're going to be on your own with yourself. Like, I would put those things out there. And I would always have it tethered with you can always come home. This door is always open for you, and I'll meet you in the driveway. with my arms wide open and I would look at my daughter and say you've got me as your dad

you got me pinned up on this one because you know I'm not going to let you die on an operating table because you don't have any money but I need you to hear me say my heart's broken not I'm going to keep control you and control you and send you off because she's 19 making a 19 year old decision and does she need to learn that adulthood has responsibilities of course she does

No question about it. But I spent my whole career working with 19-year-olds. And they do 19-year-old things. And I'm not going to put my kid in a position. This is me personally. You do what you want. And you are well entitled. Say, you're off.

You made a choice. You'd go do it. I'm telling you, in my house, I wouldn't put that on the block. But that's just me. I'd be very clear about my boundaries. The question I want you to ask yourself is, what is the ultimate goal I mean we

we had this conversation with Sarah already and she knows she can come back home whenever she feels like she can't be on herself like whenever she needs us she can come home anytime but she also knows that rules and restrictions may apply yes but she also knows the home she would be coming to

is so cruel that my mom would rather may not have health insurance and prove it point right and so what kind of home are we coming home to not a boundary free home not a rule free home they're just they're just again if you call and said i feel like cutting off the cutting off her college funding and cutting off her cell phone if you've sat down and been clear i'd be i'd support you go get it it's your money do what you want because of the precarious nature of this situation Let me put it this way.

It feels like y'all are playing blackjack and you know you have an ace. And I want to challenge you not to play blackjack with your kid. Okay. But that's just me. George, what do you think? I don't think her prefrontal cortex is fully baked yet. So it feels like a lot to put this on her. And I simply would, right now it's opposing magnets.

And you're just driving her further and further away. I would try to flip that magnet around and go, how can I draw her in and show with her that I'm truly a safe place for her? And then I truly want the best for her. And that might be a year or two before she has to figure that out. And the breakup happens. And she goes, Mom, I need a place to crash. I messed up.

I'm sorry. And maybe that's the thing you tell her is. I love you enough that when this thing goes south, when it goes sideways, we'll be here. And when you walk in the door, you're not going to be met with a lecture. You're going to be met with open arms. We know how this ends and we'll be here. But as for me in my house, I wouldn't put my kids life. on the line at 19 years old.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Open phones at AAA 825-5-2-25. Ezekiel's in D.C. up next. What's going on, man? Good afternoon. How are you guys doing today? I'm doing great. How can we help?

So I owe over $50,000 worth of debt. Most of it is loans, and loans have monthly payments. Some for 330, some for 500, some for 200. So mixing all the monthly bills for these loans, try to keep up with my credit and my everyday expenses, rent, food, and stuff like that, is kind of killing me. I'm really going in a circle. And my goal here is just to, you know, pay off my debt.

Because I make a decent amount of money, but I'm not enjoying it because all my money mostly goes towards paying this debt. Yeah, you work for your lenders right now because every paycheck disappears to them. Say that again? You're basically working for your lenders right now. You're working to provide them a paycheck. Pretty much. So how much do you make?

I made $38 an hour on one job. I bring home about $4,400 a month. And I just got a second job making about $34 an hour. And I'm bringing about $2,600 a month. So somewhere under $7,000 a month. Is one full-time, one part-time? How are you juggling those? They're all 12-hour shifts, so it's 3-12s at one job, the one-paying 38, and it's two-12s at the other job.

It's not really good for my health. It's not really good for my health. That's another problem, so I'm just doing five straight 12s. What kind of work are you in? Monday, 2nd. I'm an armed security guard. Can I just say this? George is going to, listen, you're at the right place, and George is going to walk you through

a step-by-step how to do this, all right? but can I just shout you out like just guy that got man to man here do you have kids you married no sir okay I just want to just shout you out because the

the word on the street is men don't know how to work and men are all lazy and they're just a bunch of bums and on and on and I hear a guy that probably did exactly what he was told to do on everything you got to get a new car you got to get this you got to get this and you're not afraid to go

work and get after it and I want to tell you man I applaud you and George is going to give you a path to freedom is that cool cool man I got to say I really appreciate that I worked my tail I know you do man I can hear it and that's what gives me hope that you're going to get out of this show is for guys just like you I'm proud of you man because you're not scared to put George's going to give you a hard path it's not going to be easy but he's going to give you a path out of this mess and I just want to say I'm proud of you dude it's awesome appreciate it man So number one, Ezekiel, you need to focus on your four walls first before you pay anything, and that's your rent, your food, utilities, transportation.

You can cover all of that, right, with no problem? I'm taking notes. Good. I love it. So rent, utilities, food, transportation. Just cover the basics first. Before you pay any lender, before you do anything else, you can throw insurance in there, too. Make sure you're on track for your insurance payments.

And you're bringing in $7,000 right now. That's what I heard. That's your take-home pay. Right. Are you doing any investing right now? Not at all. I have a lot of ideas and a lot of dreams, but I have this thought process that I have to clean my plate first. Amen. Yes. Yes. Good. Because I was going to tell you to stop investing. Because right now, my thought was he might be doing a lot at once. He's trying to save some. He's trying to invest some. He's trying to pay off some debt. He's trying to live. And so you want to focus on debt payoff. Anything above and beyond those expenses we mentioned is focus.

on debt payoff. And right now you've got a bunch of debts, don't you? How many separate debts would you say you have? I would have to say at least six. I have this silly thing where I think taking out more loans is going to help me take care of the loans that I have already. That just makes you normal, man. That makes you normal. You ain't crazy. When people get desperate, they'll go to desperate solutions. Yeah, you get sold that all day long, so you're not crazy. Yeah, and all the marketing is going to be like, oh, Zika, we can. can help you get out of debt. Take out this consolidation loan, right? So what are the debts? Like you said there's a bunch of loans. What type of loans are they? Car loans, credit cards, personal

loans? I have one credit card for $3,300. It's $86 a month. I have a personal loan for $13,000. That's $3.30. I have a car note that's almost paid off from where it starts. It's down to about $7,000 from $25,000. hundred and over five years, but it wants $4.65 a month, and that's killing me with car insurance, so I'm paying about $800 for my car. I have another personal loan for $8,000, and that's about $250 a month. What are all these personal loans for? All these personal loans literally just to keep me above ground and try to catch up with all the other loans and damages to my car. But what started this whole process?

Because you make good money. So what cost a guy making six figures to go, I can't pay the bills? Because it wasn't these debts as it stands. Man, just bad money management. I'm really bad at managing money. I've been trying to do this for so long. I had an idea to move somewhere and stay cheap,

but decided to help out some family members. So I moved into our house where we're running. house for $3,600 a month. And you're paying the rent? I'm not paying it all by myself, but I'm paying what's your portion? I'm paying $1,500. Okay. That's reasonable for a guy taking home $7,000. But do they expect you to pay all the light bill and all the water because you're the rich one now? No, I'm literally just paying the $1,500, but I came from a place where I was paying $5 and really doing well. Okay. And then I came here and now I'm paying $15. Well, you weren't doing well. You were just able to shuffle stuff around on the Titanic a little bit more. But $1,500 is not bad if you make the

kind of money. Here's the hard truth. You're not in a position to help anybody right now. The week can't help the week. And I hope, and I know that once you're out of this mess, you're going to be a real generous guy because you have a heart to serve and a heart to help. And you do security for a living, and yet your life is so insecure right now. Your finances are out of control. And the good news is, look, the napkin math says you put $2,000 a month towards your debts. You're done in two years. you see how that works and you're not just scared of hard work so put 2500 and you're done in three years and then you get exciting what if i did three grand a month well that's 36 grand a year i'm done in 18 months and you see how how this starts to roll and then what will cause you to feel the progress

and momentum is using the debt snowball method and i'm going to gift you every dollar it's our budgeting app it's really more than that now because it's going to coach you through this whole process so you're going to lay out all of your debts in the app and you're going to focus on the smallest balance. So what's your next smallest debt? What's the balance on it? I would say the smallest one would be a credit card of $1,100. That would be the absolute smallest. Done. That one's done. Guess what? Within the next 30 days, that $1,100 is going to pass through your hands and you can throw it and knock out the credit card debt, can't you? Yes. Done. Great. So that's one debt freed up. And remember, you freed up the payment on that. So now we can apply that to the next

smallest debt. What's the next smallest one? The next smallest one, I have it all written down here, it would have to be something I left out. I left out. I took $5,600 out from my 401k as a loan. So that would be the second smallest one. Okay, and that one will get knocked out within, what, three months? We'll be done by March on that one. Sweet. And so now you can start to see the progress. You go, okay, I'm actually making progress instead of trying to not, you know, play whack-a-mole here with my debts, and every dollar will lay all this out very clearly for you. But here's the fact of the matter. You're going to have to keep this income up for a little while longer. But I don't want you doing this. I don't want you working, you know, five, 12-hour shifts

for the next four years. We can agree on that, right? Right. But could you do this for a year? My lady does not like it at all. Oh, I bet. Well, she doesn't see you. You're a ghost to her. And even when you are around, you're probably not super fun to be around right now. And you're going to have to tell her, Hey, for 24 months, we can't go out to eat. Date night looks different. For 24 months, we're going to go on walks and hikes and free movies at the local whatever

because I'm going to get a, I'm going to be, listen to this word, I'm going to be free. We're going to be splitting a Costco hot dog, 75 cents a piece. That's the life you're going to live for a very short time, Ezekiel, so that the next 20, 30, 40 years of your life is truly free, is truly secure. So hang on the line. Christian's going to pick up. to gift you every dollar to help coach you through this exactly what we did on air it's going to do that 24-7 in your pocket giving you recommendations a personalized plan to help you out of this mess you call us back if we can help once more no matter what you want to do with your money

a budget start budgeting for free today with the every dollar app the easiest way to budget track your expenses and reach your goals faster go to every dollar dot com today welcome back to the Ramsey show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel, joined by bestselling author, Dr. John Deloney, and it's open phones at AAA 8255-225. Give us a call. We'll do our best to help you take the right next step for your money, your relationships, and your life. Kate is in Charlotte, North Carolina. What's going on, Kate? Hey, how are you all today? We're doing great. What's your question? Good, good. I have a question about paying for potential funeral expenses for an estranged father.

So we haven't really... Is he still with us? Yes, he is. He's 65 in not great health, so I would expect, obviously, sometime in the future. Well, even if he was in great health, you could expect sometime into the future, right? For all of us.

It's coming for all of us. Exactly, exactly. I'd just like to get ahead of the curve before anything catches me by surprise. He's really not of the means to pay for anything himself, won't have any kind of a state or anything like that. My siblings won't really have any means either. And so I feel like it's going to fall on me, but with not really having a relationship more than an occasional phone call, that kind of thing. I'm just kind of curious what my obligations are, and then also what I need to do, because I'm working through baby step two, I've got about 20,000 more in debt to go, but do I pause baby steps to throw a little bit in savings, or what do I need to do? Do you struggle, and this is the pot asking the kettle here, do you struggle with anxiety?

Of course. Yeah, so you've created a future potential problem, and you've dragged it back to today. and you're trying to solve it today. Mm-hmm. As one amazing young man at my church once said, this is a problem for future you right now. Okay. Like financially, okay?

Like, the financial, like, if he drops dead tomorrow, God forbid, I hope he doesn't. If he does, then we'll solve that problem tomorrow. But right now, you're in your own emergency, which is I've got to get the stuff paid off. The second thing I would ask you is, where does the word obligation come from? Because that can be a legal question.

Like who pays for the burial here for a guy that I don't want anything to do with? But I hear you asking more of a character slash spiritual slash moral question. Yeah, it's definitely more of a moral side. I don't wish me ill will toward him. Sure. So ask yourself this question, and this is a haunting question. Who do you want to be? And you get to answer that. you want.

And what I mean by that is I want to be a person who, even if somebody treats me like crap or whatever, I'm going to go do this. I'm going to call this the next right thing, which is I'm going to pay for as inexpensive of burial as I can, but I'm going to show dignity and respect and I'm going to go on about my life. Or I want to be a person who holds people accountable to how they treated me. And so you don't want anything to do with me. I'm not going to have anything to do with you.

or I want to be a kind of person that lets them have it I mean I can go on for days but you have to ask yourself that question and then reverse engineer the actions they're going to get you to the identity that you want to see when you look in the mirror okay okay and I wish it was more complicated than that and I know it's heavy it's simple but it's really hard right if this funeral happened who would show up there might be a handful of people okay so we can limit this this isn't going to be a big thing we can limit the cost of this keep it as simple as possible

and whoever signs the funeral agreement is going to be liable to pay and so I would try to get some agreement on that before that day comes so that it doesn't add stress to the grief are you can cremate him I mean there's any number of things paths you can take here okay i'm just i'm almost hesitant that if i bring it up now then everything would fall on me and there would be no cooperation from at all if you're asking that right now then you know that's what's going to happen now five years 10 years 15 years from now you know that yeah and so worrying

about trying to solve that in the present is not a good use of your time or energy because you can't solve it what's your timeline to get out of debt i should be out of debt and the next next 12, 18 months. It's amazing. Congratulations. Thank you. And then beyond that, you've got an emergency fund, and I would start saving up knowing that there might be three, four, five grand on the line that I might need to pay to cover

this expense if no one else chips in. Or I'm going to be a person that's not going to cover other people's stuff, and so I'm going to go on about my life. But you're going to have to look yourself in the mirror long after he's gone. Yeah. Right. And in the grand scheme of life, going, man, I hate that I spent three grand. Or you go, you know what, I don't regret it.

Yeah, it wasn't a fun thing to pay for. It didn't solve any family dysfunction. But I did the next right thing for me. Exactly. And so either way, I would make peace with the decision and not roleplay this in your head, letting it live rent free. That will just consume you. Because you have a bunch of imaginary conversations with people, don't you?

Of course. Yeah. And then she said, and then I said this. and then you always get like the mic drop moment right and you might be right it might play out exactly like that but 99% chance no way it feels like I remember

Bray Brown said this and I loved it she said we spend a lot of time dress rehearsing tragedy we spend a lot of time imagining what would happen if the worst case thing happens and how we're going to respond and how we're going to be the hero

and how nobody's going to cut and what that does is it serves as a Xanax to us dealing with the problems that we have in our life right this minute and it's just a way to distract yourself it's like TikTok except in your own mind scrolling scrolling scrolling scrolling and so just knowing that rumination

never solves a problem and as a ruminator I know that's easier said than done right I'm like just don't eat the cookies and I'm like but I have to right so I get that but yeah George is right if you're asking what we would do in our personal life

George I would just save up and pay I put three grand or five grand aside and I would say I want to be the kind of guy that buried his father and I want to be that guy but that's just that's for me right

and I don't know your abuse history I'm better than someone because I'm doing this it's just this is the simplest route to get through this is for me just to deal with it versus getting angry at everyone in my life

and saying why aren't they chipping in I knew they wouldn't chip in well then you just drank the poison yeah and hope they suffer for it and they're not going to so you might decide it's easier for me to just suck it up and pay three grand than it is for me to make seven phone calls that are going to ruin my month yeah and then ruin nine Christmases from now I'm guessing you don't have a great relationship with many people in your family

not my biological family no okay there tends to be a ripple effect there and I'm sorry you're dealing with that and yeah that's at the root of all of this is you're frustrated you're sad you're you're you need to grieve the fact that you should have a relationship with your family. Like, that's crazy to not be able to have a healthy relationship with your biological family, and yet that was taken away from you for things that were out of your control, right? Mm-hmm. Yeah, be heartbroken. And this is just a reminder of that.

Do the scary, impossible right next hard thing. So if you're at, George and I would probably get through that $20,000 as fast as we possibly could, and we would save up an emergency fund for three to six months. I am an anxious guy, so I like the six to seven month emergency fund, and inside of that would be the money I needed to bury somebody that I'm estranged with, but that I think is the next right thing to do. That's the path. And if it happens before you're debt free, just pause the debt snowball, save up as much as you can, as fast as you can, and get through this. So sorry, Kate. Megan is in Tulsa up next.

How can we help today, Megan? Hey, all right. So my husband and I are completely debt-free, except for our house. We still owe about 133,000 on this primary mortgage. but we have purchased land and are planning to build a new home. And in discussions with a lender, they have informed us that, after we provided all of our documentation and all of that, that in the cost breakdown for the build,

they said that they were going to require us to take out a second mortgage on our home to ensure that when we sold this primary residence to move into our new home that we would do a lump sum buy down or pay down on that new construction loan mortgage permanent mortgage. Okay. So it's risk management on their side. They're trying to protect themselves. Yes, which I understand that, but I would not do that. is that an end of, yeah, I don't, I have no interest in doing that. I'm trying to, you know. Is this the lender that you currently have a mortgage with? So, no, but they have looked at our finances and one of the things that they told us,

when we first started having this conversation about this new loan, they said they would love our business for our, so my husband and I own our own business. And when we provided our financials and how much we, our income and what our business is doing, um, They said that they wanted to court us to bring our business over to them. Like we use a different bank for our business money market. Yes. And so part of that I was like, well, that's flattering, but I don't really care what a bank thinks. But then in this new conversation yesterday, they said they want a second mortgage and they're going to require us to do banking with them.

Walk away. Walk away. Yeah. Walk away. Yeah. Yeah, they're not the only dog in the fight here. Why don't you just shop around? Or can you pause on this?

Because my guess is they're saying this is risky on our part for some reason. Well, here's my real guess. My real guess is that y'all talk to a loan officer at some stature in that bank, and they made you a bunch of promises because they get paid on how many accounts they open. And then when your loan went to loan committee, they said, we think this small business is a risk. We don't think these people have enough cash for this. We've had too many people sell their house.

on a new build and they get there all the equity but then they go to Paris for two months with that money like whatever the thing is and so I just want to let's pretend everybody's in good faith the salesman was trying and the loan committee was like there's no way I'm putting this through without a whole bunch of underwriting just got their you know spidey senses but at the end of the day I'm not going to do business with somebody that is going to force me to take out a loan and like I'm just not going to do that. They're trying to tell you. I mean, I understand mitigating their risk, but I feel like you're going to make money off

of my money that I deposit with my business. It's not about that. It's about they're trying to do business at the expense of you and your husband's value set, and I'm not going to do that. Right, right. Well, my other question with that is, is that an indication that we have over-budgeted what we should be? That was why I was trying to get at.

That's my thought. Is if they're spooked by this, it tells me there's something. something with these numbers that gives them pause. So that's what I want to ask you. Is the land fully paid off? Did you guys pay cash for that? Yeah. So, yes.

But, like, here's my, here's my, and here's what, why this was kind of like a frustrating thing. You know, we have a lot of friends who have done this, right, done the same thing. And they have had to sell their current home. And they, like, during the construction, you know, a lot of people, like, live in a rent house while the home is being built. because they need that money, the equity that it is in their current home, or they, like, you know, put a camper on the land

and live there or build a shop and live in the shop while the home is being built or, you know, all these different creative options. We were just under the impression that we had enough income and we have enough equity that we weren't going to have to do that. It sounds like your impression was incorrect.

You know what I mean? Well, now I'm wondering, like, I guess I need to shop around one. What's this new building? going to cost? So our, so that's the other part. My husband is in the construction industry. He's actually a construction owner's rep. He's done mostly commercial work, but he, so he does this for a living. So he has very kind of prides himself on coming in under budget, which is kind of unusual in the construction world. So he has conservatively estimated our bill to be 750 with a 7% contingency. And so I'm

wondering if we need to just like nail down a more accurate, less conservative and more just like real hard numbers for our budget? That doesn't matter. I mean, they're going to come through and say, well, that's cool that y'all think that's what that's going to be, but we're going to budget for a million. What matters to a bank is how much money are you asking them to loan you? How long are they out for it? Because this construction process, who knows how long it could take? Things fall through all the time with these new bills. And so they're just a lot more risk with construction loans. And that's why the terms are more stringent, higher rates, all of that, until you convert it to a traditional loan. And so that might mean, hey, we need to pause in this build. We need to stack up more

cash. We need more equity in our home. I'm not sure what that is for you that would make a, you know, construction lender feel more comfortable with this scenario. But I would shop around and you can always call our friends at Churchill. They'll give you an unbiased third party opinion and go, hey, here's what we'd think. Here's what we would do. Here's what our current, you know, rates are and that'll at least give you a better picture of what you're dealing with versus this one lender that you talk to and can i tell you something crazy that it's not going to be apples to apples but i think i might be close i have a phd in counseling people from all over the planet seek and ask my opinion on what they should do next in their marriages and their mental health

and whatever my wife does not she pays a therapist in nashville that she sees and why do i tell you that your husband may do this for a living for other people. It may be worth a handshake and a 5% deal to get another G.C. Yeah, we've talked about that, yeah. And it may not be the 10% that GCs normally do, and he may owe somebody a favor and they can high five or whatever, but there's something about being so close to him trying to make his wife's dream home come true on the land and the chickens and the goats and all the stuff you'll have planned,

that it's going to cloud the reality. And so the greatest gift I can give my wife in our house is not to counsel her ever, ever. Actually, that's funny you say that because that was one of our conversations about a month ago was we either need to hire an employee for our business or we need to hire a builder because we've just had these dreams and plans and we've had the blueprints and the, you know, the drawings ready and we just keep having so much business, which is fantastic, but he's concerned about having the time to build it. He's the one coming to me saying, I have a lot of peace about just hiring someone to do this.

That is a man that rarely exists in the 21st century. Hug him. Don't ever let him go and hire somebody. That's called self-awareness and humility. We need more of that. Oh, totally. He's all of that. I'm actually the cheap skate trying to save us a buck and trying to feel like, I think we

could do this. Listen, you have married well. You're the right subcontractor. It's worth the 10%. I have. What was like, what's going to be your taxable income for the year from this business for 2025. So last year it was around 395 and this year we're looking to do about 420.

Incredible. Is that top line or does that take home? That's, well, that's top line. But we have a very low overhead business. I mean, we basically use gas and computer software stuff. Yeah, but you're depreciating out all of your trucks and your computers and all your equipment, right? No, I mean, well, yeah, we have two laptops and, um, What would you pay taxes on last year? The amount?

$3.95. Nice. They'd give you a million dollars. What's your current house worth? $350. Okay. So you have a decent amount of equity here, but this money, I feel like, is newer to you guys. And so therefore the banks are still like, hey, there's not like, you don't have a half million dollars in equity.

And so to go $750 is a big number. We only owe 133 left on our primary, and our plan was to just pay this off while we were building. But if you're going to meet with a bank and your husband's a surgeon and you're a surgeon, they're going to say, cool, we see a projection here. If y'all are a small business that does construction, you may do 400 top line one year and 75 top line next year because that's more like a farming. It's like great years, tough years, great years, tough years. they're going to be possibly more conservative about what they loan you out. Yeah, but I would call our friends at Churchill Mortgage

and get a third party opinion from them. I think you'll have a lot more clarity after that. Are you staying on track with the baby steps? You can take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan just for you. Simply head to the show notes. Click on the link titled Are You On Track with the Baby Steps and complete the quiz. Isaac is in Houston, Texas up next, one of John Deloney's favorite places. What's going on, Isaac?

H-Town. How are you doing, guys? Yeah, I'm Isaac. I'm 20 years old. and I just got engaged about two weeks ago. Congratulations. Right on. Yeah, so this is more of a emotional, spiritual question, I guess, than the financial one.

But so my parents, they're divorced, and I think they're very smart people, but they're kind of against me getting married. and I like to talk to them take their advice on a lot of things but I just don't know about this one. They kind of don't want me to get married with the person I am with and it's

What's at the root of this? Is it your age or is it the person that you are engaged to they don't see them as a long-term quality person? Or they just both went through hell during their divorce and they just don't want anyone to ever do that ever again? So it's my age and what Dr. John O'Reilly just said, you know, it's, it's, um, partly they think I'm too young and partly because they've

been through their own experiences. They think it's a riskier bet to get married this young to this person. Yes. Okay. How old are you? I am 20 years old. I turned 20 this October. Okay.

And so tell me, man, tell me and George, why do you want to get married? Why is this person the person you're going to be right or die with for the rest of your life? Well, we, we've been living together already for about, uh, six months. and I know it goes against your guys' advice, but yeah, that's what we've been doing. Yeah, but that's like six months that you didn't answer my question. You just told me a thing you're doing. Why do you want this person to be your ride or die for the rest of your life until death do you part? Well, she's just a great person. She takes care of me well. She's, you know, very, you know, even though we're not married, she's been acting like a really great wife

and it's just a person I see in my future. How long guys has been together? About two years. It's been a little bit over two years. And how old is she? She's about to turn 21. Okay. And do you guys have any... You just got engaged. When do you plan on getting married?

How long is this engagement going to be? Not too long. We wanted to get married before the end of the year, actually. What's the rush? What's the rush? Not necessarily any rush. It's just we've already been together. Like, we've been living together and we kind of wanted to already, like, you know, be together.

And we kind of... It seems to me that we've already kind of been engaged, but not really. So here's several things I'll throw at you, okay? And I'm in the middle of working on a multi-year project on this question. Is marriage still worth it? Okay. And here's what I'll tell you. The data is pretty clear.

And I know there's some conversations about causal versus correlation and yada-y-da. Couples who are in good or great marriages, every facet of their life is better. Financially, health-wise, emotionally, they're kids, kids who grow up in the home of married parents who's, and they've actually broken the data down from married to cohabitate, all of it. Everything in your life, you'll have more sex.

Everything in your life will be better. And if you are married not well, poorly every part of your life is worse okay so it's one of those things that I feel myself screaming from the rooftops everyone needs to do this thing and do it well and we have a culture that has sold us that the worst thing we can do is limit our options and I would say the freedom that most people are chasing when it comes to getting money getting fame getting seen having quote unquote a bunch of options is found in commitment but only in commitment done well why am I telling you all that your parents lived experience is real their health was ripped apart their

psychology was ripped apart their money was ripped apart they watched their kids get splintered up their experience is real and so when they tell you you shouldn't do this thing because we tried it and it blew up our home that's a real experience and i want to honor that and i want to tell you that i hope for your sake for your kids sake for your wife's sake for the world my kids are growing in in a, I wish more people like you would have a mind towards being married, okay? And figuring out how to do this thing well, okay? I will tell you this. You have a very limited toolkit right now. And if you think being married is, well, it just kind of feels that way and we've been six months, you are going to get smacked right in the nose by reality. If you go into this thing saying,

we're going to need help from every loving adult in our life on how to do this thing well. And I'm going to have to learn new skills. I'm going to have to learn how to say I'm sorry. I'm going to understand that five years from now I'll be married to a totally different woman and she'll be married to a different man because we're going to grow. If you can go into it that way and seek intensive premarital counseling to have conversations about budgets, etc., then I would say if my 21, if my son was 21, he came home and said, that I met the person, five years ago, I would have said, bro, don't do this, wait until you're

25, live a little, I would change my tune now after looking at all the data. I would say, this is the greatest, most important decision you're going to make. I will support you every step of the way, but you have to go into it very humbly. Okay, so I think your parents are right, and I want you to do this thing. You get what I'm saying? Both are true. Yes. Okay, yeah. Tell me, I think it's, I would tell you, just as a guy who just met you, I think this is too fast to try to cram us in before the beginning of the year, only because you're telling me, well, it just feels like we've already been doing it, so we might as well.

That's a terrible reason to enter into a lifelong till death do is part right at eye commitment. Yeah. What I'd like to add to that is I was thinking about it already for a longer time, you know, even before we moved in together, but I was, you know, I had, I've lived with my parents and my whole life. They've been telling me, you know, that marriage is a scary thing. And so I was scared of it for a long time. And, you know, I just kept listening to your guys show. I know, but listen to me. Listen to me. Just because your dad was a boxer and he got

knocked out and told you to be scared of boxing, just because you suddenly think, I'm not scared of boxing anymore does not mean you should get in the ring without a bunch of skills. I would love to see you. I'm glad that you're interested in getting in the fight. I need more men getting in the fight, but I also need more men to get in the fight with skills.

I would much rather see you say, I want to formally propose to you, and we're going to get married in June, and we're going to start premarital counseling January 2. Okay. So that we're on the same page with our money, with our values with our whatever we begin having those hard conversations because here's what you're

going to have to do you're going to have to do marriage totally different than your parents did and that's going to be a challenge because when you open when you get the first fight when you get the first um lost job you get the first car that breaks down in the middle of you know of the beltway there in Houston you're going to open your toolkit and the tools in there are going to be the ones your parents put in there by their marriage okay you get what I'm saying? Yes, sir. So, Isaac, it's less about a specific age. It's about alignment on values. And the truth is, from 18 to 22, I didn't know my values. I didn't know myself. And so that's the part that we're encouraging you to dig into for yourself and for her to make sure that you're

aligned on family, kids, in-laws, you know, whatever it is, politics, how are we going to raise what are all the decisions and the filters we're going to use to do this? Because that's the part where it's going to bite you in the butt down the line to go, oops, I just like the P, B, and J she made me. I never thought to ask about X, Y, Z over here. And in the early stages of any relationship, man, it is just gum drops and rainbows. I remember I didn't fight with my wife for like the first year and a half. We were together. And I was like, this is a match man in heaven. Oh, my wife and I barely made it two and a half weeks before we're like, yeah, we screwed this up. Like, so every couple's different. But as, as George said, I think even

beneath, are we aligned on politics or whatever? My wife and I aren't. we're not aligned. We go to the same church, but we have different beliefs about stuff. And I think that's awesome. It took me 15 years to learn how to share a home with somebody that we had the same values, but we had different beliefs. And so I want you to get in and you start learning some of those skills and go into this thing humbly. So yeah, I hope you get married, dude. I really hope you do. And I hope you go change your whole family tree. And before you do that, I hope you get a bunch of skills along the way. Dan, a lot of premarital counseling. I'm going to gift you Financial Peace University to help

you with the money side. That's some of the best premarital counseling you can get when it comes to finances. So hang a line. That's our gift to you. Our question of the day is brought to you. Our question of the day is brought to you by Y-R-R-E-FI defaulted private student loans, don't just disappear, but you can take back control. Y-R-R-E-F-R-E-F-R-E-R-E-F-Y-R-E-F-Y that gives you hope and a clear path forward. Go to Y-R-R-E-F-Y. To learn more, that's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey, not available in all states.

Today's question comes from Marissa in Illinois. Marissa writes, I'm a stay-at-home mom and love having that role in our home. But in our marriage, the root of all of our arguments and problems is money. I'll admit it. I like nice clothes, make up shoes and purses. I love going out and getting coffee. We own our home but want to make some renovations and my spending has gotten in the way of making that a reality. I've always been a spender and before I got married, my dad would put money in my account when I didn't have any. My husband would like to keep my personal expenses under $2,500 a month and I know it's doable, but why is this so hard for me? Wow. I see two things here. One is an addiction and the second is enabling from dad and now she's putting that on the husband. This is your role now to put the money in my bank. I don't see it as much as her, she's saying like my husband's given me a reasonable allowance of $2,500. He seems like he's very level. He's going, well, can you do it under $2,500? And she's like, we'll see. I think so. That's some people's entire budget. All of their expenses they fit under that. Yeah. So, Marissa, my tone, my tune has changed on this the last few years. I, four years ago, if you'd ask me this question, I would have thought it very important to dig into the root of your spending addiction, the root of your, why you can't keep a budget, why you are struggling financially and you're having disagreements except you keep spending money on purses and shoes and things like that.

I'm changing my tune on that. I think if you want to make a behavior change like this, the best way right now for you is to act your way into changing your life. What do I mean by that? Before you get an answer to, quote unquote, why is this so hard for me? Stop spending money. And what do I mean by that? Get rid of your debit card. Hide it. Put it in a safe. Give it to your husband. Tell them take it to the office. but stop spending money. And when you feel that discomfort, feel it, and have one or two things that you promise yourself make a commitment that you're going to go do

when you feel that discomfort. When you begin to say, I need to go buy some shoes. You don't. You got all the shoes you need. I'm going to go for a walk. I'm going to go call a friend. I'm going to have a set of actions that I go do because I'm finding people, George,

who spend all of their time, why, why, why. I need to go see another therapist for five years. I need to go do another personality exam. I need to go to another silent retreat and all that. All this stuff's good. But it's one year, two year, five years, seven years, and the same behaviors are just hanging around. And I'm becoming more and more convinced both through the data

and just walking with people the last four or five years. The greatest gift you can give your body is the lived expense of A, I didn't spend any money last month and I didn't die. B, I didn't spend any money the last six months. And I say any money. You know what I mean. I didn't buy any new shoes. new purses, any new guns, any new whatever. And I've had to deal with the root of that issue.

And that's worth spending the money on for various things. So if you have a chemical addiction, obviously you've got to go to rehab or whatever. But Marissa, I want you to put up some insanely high hurdles that make it borderline impossible for you to spend money right now. Have that level of discipline. Which means deleting the apps off your phone or moving the card info from everywhere you can find it. Or take the phone and get rid of the phone. Get a flip phone. I'm talking about. being cost. Yeah, I'm guessing a lot of this is happening while scrolling. Yes. And so that's, that could solve a whole lot of problems. Create, um, some rhythms and routines where you go hang out with other stay at home moms throughout the week. So you're not just sitting at home in a box

by yourself scrolling and scrolling and scrolling. But yeah, if it means getting a flip phone, get a flip phone. And if you find yourself like, oh, if I don't have social media, I got no human or AI interaction at all, great. Then that's the tension's that doorway. Go into that tension and go find some friends but um you have to put some serious hurdles in front of you so that it purifies what the real problem is it distills it down and now i got to go solve that yeah my guess here is she's like you mentioned dad always solved it and she's probably incredibly lonely would be my experience would be my guess and i think there's a root cause of all this another thing out there is going to make me okay of like why another outfit yeah because on my wife stays at home she wishes that she could

even have the time or energy to put on clothes and go somewhere. Like nice clothes, full makeup, the purse, the shoes. So this is impressive enough that she can accomplish this. But the budget is going to be the key here because you guys clearly don't have one. Because you're saying, hey, my spending is stopping us from saving up for renovations. Well, the makeup money should not be renovation money. We need to separate all of this out in a budget. You can download every dollar and make a line item for Marissa that says $2,000 Marissa fund money. whatever. If you guys make 20 grand and that's how you want to spend your money, go for it. But then we need another line item for renovation sinking fund and we put $2,000 a month into that

account. So that there's $24,000. I would say the first three months, make that $200. Really scale down. Like it's for a cup of coffee. Right. And really challenge yourself on what is this drive that I have to fix this momentary feeling of I'm not enough or I'm bored or I'm scared and I'm going to go buy something, click, buy, click, buy click, by click. Because she's already moved on before the shoes even arrive. Oh, yeah. Right? Because it's not about, she didn't actually want that pair of shoes.

It was a dopamine hit. It's that build up the build, the build, the build, and then boom. If a box doesn't show up at the door, I can't feel anything that day. Well, I don't even think this is about the box showing up. I think it's about hitting the button. All of it. The whole experience. Yeah.

Oh, my goodness. Put some really high hurdles in front of yourself. Yeah. And for anyone working the baby steps who wants to hit their money goals, Every dollar is the best tool to do it. You can track your progress, get personalized recommendations, and coaching for your situation that will help you free up more money to work the plan even faster. You can start every dollar for free by downloading it in the app store or Google Play.

Danielle is in Vancouver up next. What's going on, Danielle? How can we help today? Hi, I'm super nervous. But my question is, are we foolish to consider moving provinces for what we would consider a good financial gain and freedom to do the things as a thing. family now. That's a pretty good pitch.

Why does it involve? Sounds awesome. What are we missing? Okay, so my family is here, most of them. And so we would be leaving my family and actually my husband's family here for a province where we have friends, but no family. For some people, that would be the greatest, healthiest thing to do. And for some people, that would be a nightmare.

So you have to ask yourself that. Yes, and I feel like we're, my husband's good to go. It's me. I come from a really big family, and we've had three of my siblings are here. So at BC to Alberta. Okay. What's the driving distance? Oh, if you were to visit.

10 to 12 hours. Okay. Not reasonable. That's how far it is. Two or three times a year. Yeah. And when we moved from my whole family and my wife's whole family live in Texas, all of them. And so when we moved across the country to Nashville, across the U.S. to Nashville, we built into our life.

For this to work for us, we've got to have this many trips back a year. And we have to save that amount of money. Right. And that is something that I have put in there with my husband that we would want to do. Okay. What's your question? So, do we pull the trigger? You've got to be a big kid on this one.

What are the implications here? I mean, are jobs, housing? Like, what's going to change? So it's cheaper. So job-wise, my husband's a nurse, and I'm currently not working. We just had a baby last year, but I'm currently not working. And I would not be able to do my job full-time. I'd have to drop down to casual or part-time.

Okay. Do you need the family support around your new baby? Um, well, in order for me to work full time, yes, or we would have to have a nanny. Okay, can I throw this at you? Yeah. Anytime I'm faced between an either or decision, I always force myself to put three or four new options on the table just for fun. Can I throw a third option for you? Okay.

What if y'all just made a 24-month agreement? We're going to try this. A 12-month agreement. He's a nurse. He could easily get a job back in the old province. Y'all could get another place back in the old province. You'd be fine. you're making this into a forever move and that the weight of that decision is daunting.

What if you just said, all right, let's go do it for 12 months. Let's try that. But that's just a thought. It's reversible. It's not fatal. So go for it. And if you hate it, you can always come back home. And so I would sit down, make the budget, make sure the numbers make sense.

And every decision comes at a cost. You're going to lose some stuff. You're going to gain some stuff. you want to do with your money you need a budget start budgeting for free today with the every dollar app the easiest way to budget track your expenses and reach your goals faster go to every dollar dot com today welcome back welcome back to the rand show in the Fairwinds Credit Union Studio. I'm George Camel, joined by my co-host, Dr. John Deloney. The number to call is AAA 825-5-225 if you want to join the show. Kenna is in Denver. Up next.

What's going on, Kenna? Hi there. I just have a question looking for some advice. Should I prioritize going to school now if I ultimately want to be a stay-at-home mom? How old is, how old are you now? What does now mean? I am 24. I just got married a couple months ago. Congratulations. I do have a bachelor. Thank you. I do have a bachelor's degree already and I was planning on going to physician assistant school, but, but now after just talking in the expense of that versus something else like nursing is kind of where I'm going down with the route I'm going down now.

So let me ask you a crazy question. Can you afford nursing school right now? Yeah. I think so. Afford as in you could cash flow the whole thing without delaying or derailing other financial goals. Yeah, that's, it's, I guess that's kind of where I'm, like, stuck because my husband does have some student loan debt as well from undergraduate. He has about $40,000, because we have about $40,000. But I could go to nursing for about $20,000.

I would, this is me, and George,000. George may disagree. So this is just me. I would do that. Yeah. Okay. And what is the upside for you? What got you thinking, man, I really want to go back to school, pursue this? Yeah. Just, I always imagine myself doing something more. I wish I would have gotten a nursing degree before, but that's neither here nor there. I just want to do more. I'm a medical assistant now. I just want to be more involved with patient care. And of course, I do want to be a state-house. home mom but then eventually the kids are going to be gone and and that part of our life is going to be over in terms of them being in the house um but i have to tell you i've spent my career working with some of the most amazing brilliant women in the world yeah and i have been stunned by women who i figured i would be working for or i was working for right or about to and suddenly they're like no dude i had a baby i'm out of here and i'm like what really and i've been stunned by the people who are lifelong dedicated i mean you stay at home mom stay at home six months and they're

like i no not for me right that's what i worry about for sure too because of course i don't know that life yet and can i give you one other ugly like just reality just because you called me is that cool definitely um my wife and i had some very clear plans on having a family and my son took three and a half years followed by miscarriage one two three and then my daughter came and so we had very clear plans we got our doctorate degrees we had our careers and then we were going to start doing this next thing and it did not work on our timeline right I worry about that too and I would love for you to do the next right thing for you right now in this season and keep your amazing options and plans open and if you want to be a stay-at-home mom you need to get your

those student loans paid off. You got a cash flow nursing school. You got to do that stuff in the right way so you can prepare for a life with one income because that's your values. And also at the same time, be honest about it may not happen on our timeline. Right. Or it may happen tomorrow, right? But I don't want you to wake up in 10 years and say,

we've been waiting for this thing to happen. Mm-hmm. Right? Yeah, totally. And I guess, yeah, that waiting, it's like either wait to have a family or wait to go to school. That's kind of where I'm at. What's your current total debt load right now? Total debt load is $40,000.

That's all student loans. Is that including his, though? Yeah, that's only his. I don't have any student loans. Okay. I'm just wondering, if you cleaned up your, if you almost plan like, hey, we want to plan to have a family in the next year or two, we're going to plan to just kind of get a clean slate financially. We're going to work on knocking out his debt. I'm going to continue doing what I'm doing versus going further, you know, in the hole or trying to cash flow this while keeping the debt around.

And then you get down the path and you go, okay, now I want to stay at home, but now we're too deep in this. So I just don't want to get to a point where you're at this weird crossroads and you have to give one thing up for the other. Right. Yeah, yeah. And I guess the other part to it is that we did get some wedding money and we are able to save my entire paycheck. we do have enough money to pay off the loans cash right now. Do it today. Today.

Okay. Because what you're calling about is I want options and becoming debt free faster is going to give you more options. Okay. Not holding on to the money for when some random day comes. Right. Not doing anything now. Because if you free up that debt, well, now we can cash flow and save up 20 grand

to cover this program pretty quickly, couldn't we? Right. Yeah, yeah. We, yeah, it would. And then how long is the program? It's 24 months. Yeah, it'd be two years. And this is one of those crazy, like, things that people don't think about.

If you have a nursing degree and you choose to stay home, you know who the greatest beneficiary of that degree in the world would be? That new baby. Right, yeah. You don't know drama until you saw me see a rash for the first time, and I was like, oh, this is it! right right and I was the one calling my buddies who are doctors and nurses in the middle of the night being like my kid and they're like oh god go to bed you're an idiot

right yeah so that's a skill set that won't be wasted if you use it for your friends and family or if you use it professionally it's an amazing skill set to have right right and it's seems I don't know I'm convincing myself more and more every day that it's better over you know PA you can make more money eventually but the debt load is so huge and I just don't think it's right for where we're at right now. Yeah, I love that thinking. And it's not like you can't go pursue this two years from now. It's not going to disappear as an option.

I think you'll have a lot more clarity two years from now. So there's nothing wrong with delaying it. I'm sort of team, let's delay it if you're gun ho on, hey, we want to try to have a family now. Right. And I have a lived experience of, let's do, have it, like George had a baby, I don't want to be weird. They got pregnant fast. We did not, right? And so my plan just wasn't in the cars for a while.

Yeah. Right. And also you can get a semester of nursing school in that you've paid for in cash and then take a leave of absence to have a baby. That's no big deal. That's true. I hadn't thought about that either. So here's the crux of it.

Whether you delay it, whether you do it now, I would get out of debt completely and only do this if you're going to cash flow it. Put yourselves in a good financial position to where you have options and you have less risk, less stress, because that's always going to help you think more clearly and make the right decision for your family versus, well, we can't do this because we owe people money or we don't have the savings. Yeah, and that's like my ultimate fear is like everything's open right now. And as soon as you have so much debt, it's like, oh, I actually can't do the things I want to do. Yes. Right. Well, we can't make the decision for you, but I have full faith that

Kenna's going to make the right one for her and her family when that time comes. And John, this is, I mean, it's just so, it's never been more clear to me that debt reduces your options. Yeah, and there's, I, I've sat with sobbing moms who are pregnant who have to go back to work and they don't, they didn't want to, but they owe somebody money. And I've also sat with people who are like, we can kind do whatever we want. So we can do this for a while. I'm going to try that.

I'm going to try this. And that just felt like freedom. Oh, yeah. Well, people made fun of us. They're like, why would you pay off your low interest more? mortgage journey and then my wife decided to stay home and went that's why it wasn't a financial decision it was just an emotional one yeah and that's that's one of the most beautiful things in life when you can take the financial burden off the table and then you can kind of do what you want

for a while that's invincibility right there John is in Minneapolis up next. John, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hey, how are you guys doing, man? Doing great. How can we help today? Good. I'm, so I am a 20-year-old, like you said, I'm in Minnesota.

I need some advice. I've got a good amount of money saved up. in a Roth IRA that I'm looking to invest and I saved up in a Roth IRA you're looking to invest so it's invested is it in like on the money market side like in a cash equivalent or is it actually invested in something mostly it's just cash I there's a few thousand invested into it my mom has been helping me do that because she's very knowledgeable about the stock market so She's invested a few thousand. I'm not exactly sure where, but my plan that I'm wondering is, is it wise to invest the majority or all of it just into the S&P 500, since that's a historically great

return, or is it wiser to, you know, go more diverse with it? I mean, that diversity is pretty strong. You got 500. of the top companies that you're diversified across. Now, it's weighted, so it's not like there's one in each. You know, Apple's going to have more than a smaller company, but yeah, the S&P 500 historically has delivered about a 10 to 12 percent average rate of return over the last several decades. And so do you need to diversify more than that? You know, our recommendation is across four mutual fund types, and this is largely what you'll find in an S&P 500 fund is you want growth, aggressive growth, growth and income, and international.

And that basically means conservative, midway, more aggressive, and then we've got the international companies out there. And you're going to find a lot of that already in the S&P 500. So you could do a whole lot worse than doing that. If you just did that, you're going to be a multimillionaire if you consistently invest in that at the age of 20. Exactly what I want to do, you know, because I do max it out every year. I have been since I was 15, I think.

Wow. What's your income? Well, you know, it varies. I'm a business owner, and I, you know, currently I don't work a regular job, so the income can vary, but it's always been enough for me to contribute that. At 15, how did you max out a Roth IRA? I worked at a restaurant. Like a custodial rough that your parents had set up? It was, yeah, my mom is very helpful with helping me get my money, you know, as it should be.

She was very adamant about that from a young age for me. So do you make over, do you make $100,000? Give me a ballpark here of what you think you'll make 2025. What will your taxable income be? If I had to guess, I mean, I'm aiming for it to be around $100,000. There's no guarantee yet. I run a landscaping business. Do you invest outside of the Roth IRA, or do you just, my goal is to max that out,

and then I'm done investing for the year? Well, I don't like to over-complicate things. So personally, I would prefer to just have one sort. So have the Roth be my investment, and then the rest of my money is money I can spend on whatever, put back into the business, et cetera. Okay. Do you have any debt right now? No, sir. Okay.

Wonderful. And how much do you have in savings? How much do you have that's more liquid that's not invested? I have just over $30,000. Way to go. Dude, you're crushing it. Thank you. So you would be in what we call Baby Step 4.

You're completely debt-free. You have a fully funded emergency fund, and now you're able to invest 15% of your income. So let's say you made $100,000 for easy numbers. We would say invest 15% of that into tax-advantaged retirement accounts. So $7,000 is the contribution limit for the year. So what happens after that? What you're telling me is I just sort of do what I want with the rest. Exactly.

I mean, you know, I don't like to be a big spender. I'm not buying things I don't need. I mean, I do spend a decent amount of money a month on a credit card, which I pay off every month, but most of this is gas and it's business-related or it's food. So, you know, basic things. Do you live with your family right now? Fortunately, yes, I live with my dad, and that allows me to be able to save this money. What's the long-term game plan?

Are you going to continue running the landscape business into your 20s, 30s? Yeah, exactly. So ideally, yes, I haven't written out a specific plan, which I should, but in the next couple years, I'm looking to grow it like I have been and eventually get my own place. But I'm kind of, it's like with the investing, I'm willing to invest all of that money in the Roth IRA, you know, because that's... I'm telling you, John, you can't.

There's contribution limits. So what I'm telling you is once you go above and beyond that, you can find... There's other avenues to invest in a tax advantage retirement account. One would be something like a solo 401K. You could open that as a business owner if you're the only employee. And so there's other options I want to encourage you to invest in so that you can build more wealth versus just going, well, I'm going to do the Roth and that's it. And so I'm going to get you an investing guide.

It's completely free. Go to ramsysolutions.com slash guide and download that because right now I see a guy who works really hard, who has a great savings muscle, but doesn't have a lot of clarity on what he's doing and why he's doing it. And I don't want you to invest in things you don't understand. And while I love that your mom has this knowledge, you need to build this knowledge for yourself. And so that would be my next step for you as a guy who has a bunch of money and wants to put

it somewhere that it's going to work for him. Okay, I will do that. Yeah, keep it up, man. If you keep living debt-free and you keep maxing out or off-I-R-A, even just doing that, go pop it into our investment calculator on our website. Your mind will be boggled by that. Mike is in Chicago up next. What's going on, Mike?

Hey, yeah, I was wondering, I work 116 hours a week, and I was wondering if there's that many hours in a week. What? Yes. No, for real. I'm a machine operator. Okay. Is that safe?

Do we run the machine that long? Like, aren't there, like, legal boundaries around that? We're not on the road or any CDL, so we're in a private property. All right, so what's your question, dude? Yeah, private property. We can do what we want. It's America, George. Geez, let Mike go.

All right, so what's the question, Mike? My question is, I want to make more money than I'm making now, but I don't really have time for side hustles. What are you making? This year so far, I'm at roughly 273,000. Okay, and what was the impetus for you saying, I need more money? I'm a collector. So, like, I mean, I collect a lot of stuff, comic books, trading cards, cars, autographs stuff,

and historic antiques. Here's what you have to do. Like, you know the answer to this because you're smart. You have to do a different job. that you think is going to make you more than $273,000? Yeah. Like, there's not a secret here. And also, is this sustainable to be working over 100 hours a week?

Because if so, your income is going to drastically go down while your lifestyle is going to stay high. So I think we need to reset the picture here and go, what can I do for 40 or 50 hours a week that's sustainable that pays me enough to live the life I want to live? And by the way, if your life is going to be judged on, if you judge your life on how many training. blankets you have surrounding you, it's going to be a miserable life. Yeah. I mean, it's just... So what do you make... Do you get paid hourly right now, or is it salary? Hourly. Okay, what do you make per hour?

Was it 34, 32? But I mean, this means you're getting... What are you getting 80 hours a week of overtime? time? Just roughly, I think, it's what, 75 and a half? Yes. Gosh. So instead of making 32, I'm going, what kind of job in the field that I'm in pays 60 an hour or 90 an hour? That way I can work 40 hours a week and live to tell the tale to actually enjoy all these trinkets I've collected. Or here's another crazy idea. What if, and this is going to be a struggle, you somehow survived on $200,000 a year

and you just stop buying so many Pokemon cards. I don't think we need more money, Mike. I think we need to reevaluate our lifestyle. Everyone needs insurance, but it can be hard trying to find pros who aren't just looking to make a buck and agents who know their stuff. Well, good news. Ramsey trusted insurance pros are vetted and coached to make sure they're market experts who have your best interest at heart. So go to ramsysolutions.com slash coverage to find the type of insurance you're looking for and connect with a Ramsey trusted agent. All right. Let's go out to Maine. Karen joins us there. What's going on, Karen? this call will be recorded oh good karen thanks for recording we put this on you too we're recording

you can check this out for eternity hi we're also recording for quality assurance purpose yeah well and honestly um i use this to a reference back to you got what's up if that's okay with you oh absolutely all right wonderful uh i am just shy of 62 years old I am legally separated from my husband with no chance of it changing. I do not have a retirement. I do not have a pension or anything like that. I make roughly $42,000 a year. The only thing that I am in debt for is a mortgage.

And I have not invested in my work for a 1K plan because, to be honest with you, I'm scared to death about doing it because I know nothing about it. And they will match up to 3% of what I put in. So this is open enrollment time and I'm going to invest in 3% so I can get their 3% because I think that's free money to go towards that. but I also want to get my mortgage down in about 12 years, if at all possible. What's left on the mortgage? Oh, almost all of it.

How much is that? It started at 80, and I am down to 70-7-5. Okay, and a current rate... I've only been paying on it since July. Okay, and was this a 30 year or a 15? A 30. Okay. So at the current rate you're paying, it'll take 30 years to pay this off?

Well, no, not that rate I'm going, because I'm paying extra on it at every chance I get. So I've paid an extra $2,000 on it so far in the six months that I've had it. Let me ask you this question before George digs into your numbers. Do you have any sort of financial reconciliation as a part of the separation? No. Why not? I would, uh, because, uh, he ruined his business. Um, there was just, there was nothing there. Nothing there. We, we'd only been married at the time for nine and a half years. So when I went

into the relationship, I walked in with him, his home that he priorly, prior owned. Okay. Uh, what I, what I did get when I left was two mobile homes that I lived in one for a short time and I rented out the other one. Okay. But with the way people are nowadays, I ended up selling both of those. Good. So I have $25,000 in my high-yield savings account. Wonderful. Right now.

Okay. So, and I don't touch that at all. Okay. George will tell you what to do with that money, but this is good. That's good. Okay. So how can we specifically help you today? What's the main question?

I don't know what to invest in with this 401K or if I should take that money and just put it on to my mortgage to get it down sooner. Well, you would be in what we call babysept four. So you're out of debt. You have money and savings for emergencies. So you're ready to invest 15% of your income into retirement. So 15% of your $42,000 salary, correct? Yeah, I don't know if I can afford 15%. Well, you're putting extra on the mortgage right now.

Could we divert some of that towards investing? I could, but then that's going to slow me down to get my mortgage paid off. Okay, well, here's the thing. If you invest nothing, you're going to have nothing. So we're trying to get you to a spot where you at least have a little nest at growing for you with some compound growth. Now, we don't have a lot of time on our side anymore, but we're going to try to get this mortgage paid off with anything above and beyond that 15%. But I would not tell you to just put everything on the mortgage you can and don't invest a dime. because at the end of the day, then you're going to have no nest egg and no mortgage payment.

You're going to be $75 and selling your house. Exactly. Yeah, okay. Even though I've got it into a high-yield savings, which I only earn... You'll keep up with inflation if you're lucky. And so your buying power is getting lost every day. So the high-yield savings at least keeps up with that. But you need to rise above and beyond that in order to actually have wealth, to order to have some extra money, to have your money make money.

And so that 401K, it's going to be time to learn what funds are in that 401k and which ones are right for you. And for that, I would get connected with a smart vester pro who can sit down with you and walk you through those options and guide you towards doing something that you've never done before, which is understand what you're investing into. I don't want you blindly picking something because someone told you to. I want you to fully understand, oh, this is what this fund is for. Here's why I'm investing in it. Okay. And as a primer on that, you can get our free investing guide at ramsysolutions.com slash guide. And that will at least give you some basic information about our retirement investing strategy.

But here's a bummer. Your picture of retirement's going to look different. Yeah. And here's a bummer of, this is just us being honest with you because we love you, okay? Okay. It may be that at 62 while you're still in good health and your mobility is still okay, $42,000 isn't going to cut it. It may be that I'm working this full...

What do you mean $42,000 isn't going to cut it? That means that if you look at the math problem, that is your life, and this is taking feelings off the table, this is taking heartbreak off the table, this is just looking at the math problem. Yeah. If you need $500,000 to retire when you're 75, it may be that you have...

Yeah, well, I doubt that's going to happen. Well, you'll surprise yourself. I'm probably going to work until the day I die. Well, but it may be that why you can still fly around a little bit at a young Sprightly 62, it may be that you make 42 grand and you work another side job on the weekends. Well, and actually, I am working on a side hustle right now to get that started. Okay, but side hustle might mean you're investing money into a thing, you're spending money

and it becomes a hobby, and you're going to look up in two years. Like, you don't have that luxury right now at 62. Right. You know what I'm saying? Well, no, the goal for that side hustle was for me to put it all towards my mortgage to get out from underneath it because my mortgage interest rate is 6.625. Yeah, that's a high interest rate, but historically it's not and that's just a lot of like social media drama. Like I want you to focus on the things you can control. Like what's your

side hustle? Like what? What's your side hustle? It's going to be selling things on eBay for my former boss and I get 40% of whatever I sell. Okay. I want you to try. Try that for three or four months and see how it works out. Yeah, he's made really good money at it. But I don't want you to put a dime into it. I want him to give you the items and you take pictures of them and you deal with the stuff for the 40%. That's what I'm doing.

And track it against your time and what money you actually made from that. Because if it's taking you, you know, if you might do the math and go, I'm making $6 an hour by the time I'm done with this. You can go to Arby's and double that. Exactly. So just make sure that whatever you're doing is worth your time. time and try to get your core income up. Can we make 50 or 60 or 70,000 with the skills and experience you have? And I think you just, you stop betting on yourself at some point in life.

George, can you run through your calculator there, like the Ramsey investment calculator? Can you run through, if she puts 15% of her money, what does that look like at what age? So, Karen, here's the thing. I know you said you don't think you have enough. You need to make this a priority to invest. If you invest 15%, it's about 500 bucks a month, 525. From the age of 62, to age 80. Let's just admit we're going to have to work a lot longer than we planned on. With the actual rate of return of the stock market, you would have about $350,000 in that nest egg. Okay. Now, if you go to 75, it becomes 180,000. So you can see that the power of compound growth needs time. So those last five years really matter. Because at 80, guess what? You contributed about 113,000.

240,000 was just a growth. That was your money making you more. money. So the best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. We all know that. The next best time is today. So don't delay it. Don't say, well, investing's not for me because I haven't done it and I'm 62. If you can fog up a mirror, there is hope for you yet, Karen. So hang on the line. We'll make sure you get connected to a smart vester pro who can walk you through all of this and make sure you get that guide. Listen back to this and let it be a reminder that it's not too late to have a retirement with some dignity. Our scripture of the day, Proverbs 1320, walk with the wise and become wise, for a companion of fools, suffers harm.

John Bon Jovi said, don't get too comfortable with who you are at any given time. you may miss the opportunity to become who you want to be. Yeah, George. There's your inspiration, John. A little bon Jovi. That shot right through my heart. And you're too late. All right.

Danielle is in Miami, Florida. That was good. That was some great. That was impressive. I mean, I don't want to say that we're stand-up comics, but that was pretty good stuff right there. Oh, Danielle, save us. How are you doing? I'm doing well, thanks. What's up, lady?

So, I'm facing a metastatic cancer. Oh, no. How recently were you diagnosed? About three weeks ago. Holy smokes. How old are you? 59. Jeez.

And my husband is 65, and we have an eight-year-old. Oh, no. I mean, oh, yay, but oh, no. What's the time horizon they gave you? I'm a planner. I just, like I said, we're hoping for the bus, but preparing for the worst. and my husband and I are thinking that he is the beneficiary of my 403B from my work that I had and we are thinking he should pay off our mortgage with that and that will leave him with

Social Security and from a rental property property that we own free and clear to live off of. Can I challenge you on something? Mm-hmm. I think this is, if this is a, if this is a way to manage just the sudden chaos inside your own chest,

I totally get it. But I don't want him making any plans on how he's going to spend money after his wife or if his wife passes. And here's why. who knows what that world looks like. I've met people that can't walk back into the home that they were married in

because their spouse doesn't live there anymore. And I don't want to tie anybody down to, I promised her, I said I would, we've moved this money already. If you say, hey, you're a goofball and I want to have a plan down just so I can say I check that off my list of things I need to go through

because I'm struggling with this diagnosis, I totally get that. But I also want you to look him in the eye and say, I'm going to hold this with a very loose fist because who knows how you're going to feel after this thing's over. My rule of thumb is nobody do anything for six months to a year after their loved one passes. Okay.

That's my rule. And do we continue paying tithes during this time? Continue paying what? Our tithe. Your tithe, like to your church? Yeah. I mean, the giving is a matter of, matter of the heart. And it doesn't, you know, stop unless there is a, if there's a storm in your

life where you go, we can't afford this right now and something takes priority so we can provide for our family, no one would shame you for that. But if giving is a part of you and that's what you want to do, go for it. Don't stop the tithe. What's the, what's the terminal nature of this, of this illness? What, what stage are you in? How much time did they give you all that? Well, we've got some more testing to do. It's a melanoma that we know. We know has spread to my lungs and our next up is a PET scan to see if it's anywhere else like the brain. Okay. So that's a tough, that's a tough diagnosis you got.

And I could, I mean, you know, I could potentially, if the treatment goes well, I could, you know, I could have a long time. Sure. That's right. So I would recommend you make a list of things that I'm worrying about and things I can control right now. Okay. and the things that you're worrying about, write them on a separate list, keep them in your phone, write them on a yellow pad, whatever. And once every few weeks, you and your husband sit down and have him smile at you and get you a cup of coffee. And he says, go, let him rip.

And you just start piling him up. What if an asteroid hits us? What if the dinosaurs come back? What if Jurassic Park is real? What if the moon landing was fake? All that stuff. What happens? What are you going to do with this fund on this date when I pass away and then this, like get all, just do that?

And then go back to, okay, what can we control the day? We can go for a walk outside, we can go play with our eight-year-old, we can take some pictures, we can go to an arcade, we can have some fun, we can go get treatment, whatever. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Yeah. Do you currently have a will in place? We do, but it needs updating because at the time we did it.

Our son was our foster son, and he wasn't legally adopted yet. Please do that ASAP. Yeah. So there are some practical things you can do, like John said, there's some things you can control and making sure that your will is up to date, making sure that every account has the correct beneficiary on there, health care power of attorney, durable power of attorney for your financial decisions. All of that stuff is important, and you can knock that out this week. My wife has a folder that has every account, every password, every email account, every everything. and once or twice a year she reminds me where it is and I remind her where mine is and it's like all the phone pass codes the Netflix code all the stuff and that might be a good thing to start putting that together just just for peace of mind for yourself right right it sounds sooner rather than later but it's not imminent right right okay I'm sorry

yeah that's okay I feel you know it's not The last 30 years have been a blessing because when I was 29 years old, I went through a bone marrow transplant for leukemia. Oh, good gravy. Not your first battle. These last 30 years have been a bonus, you know. You've been playing on house money. So how have you did? Have you had a good run?

I have. It's been wonderful. And, you know, this little boy came into our lives, you know, seven and a half years ago, and it's just been the joy of our lives. You're amazing. My prayer for you is that they come back with some positive news after the PET scan, and they put you on a good treatment, and you get the right surgery, and you've got another long road. We're rooting for you, Daniel.

Thank you for calling us and trusting us with this. All right, let's go out to Linda in Cincinnati. What's going on, Linda? Hey, thanks so much for taking my call. So my father passed away earlier this year. and I've been working through his estate. We're almost done. My mom called me last week and said,

hey, in the 1990s, your dad raised up my credit cards. He wasn't providing, blah, blah, blah, blah. $10,000, he ran it up. And he only said he would pay it back. Do you think, can you give me that out of the estate? Because he always said he would pay it back. This is a real debt. Are they divorced?

And I just don't. They never got married. Okay. How much, how big is this estate? Um, medium, probably our take-home will be about 95,000. So she's wanting a 10% cut to make good on... Yes. Wow. That is so wild. I mean, I don't think she has any legal claim to this. I doubt there was a contract.

This feels like a handshake. He said, she said, agreement from the 90s. It sounds like drama. So it would never hold up. But do you like your mom? Yeah. Well, not even that. You know your mom. If you give her this money, will she just, I don't mean to be rude, will she just shut up? Or, well, then there's something else come next month

and something else come to the month after that. Well, with interest, it's really 15, so I need another five now. Like, is she that type of person? Yes. Okay, then just say no. My mom is very manipulative. Just say no.

Nuff said. All right. Just say no. Say, I hate that he did that. And she's probably going to raise some help. She might, will she come after you with like legal, like sue you for this money she has already threatened a little bit of that

she's like I could put a lien on his scratch she seems like the type that's what I was getting at I'm trying to here's what I'm grappling with her property you could try to pay her off and she goes away but I think she's going to continue to knock on the door because you give her an inch she takes a mile she's not going to put a lien on the property are you selling this property

yeah put it on the market tomorrow and just be done it's already in contract we're supposed to close in like a week oh great then just go on about your life well my question is as a as a Christian

I don't know is there any kind of middle road should I be like mom I don't really owe you anything but as a kind of this is between her and a deceased husband that she never actually married so you don't have a spiritual moral obligation because you don't know if this actually happened and she's made up crap

to you about him your whole life This is not a what would Jesus do scenario. This is just, do I, if I give her 10 grand, will this stop all the madness or will it just spark a new fire? Open a door, and I think you know it will open the door. No matter what you want to do with your money, you need a budget. Start budgeting for free today with the every dollar app. The easiest way. a budget. Track your expenses and reach your goals faster. Go to every dollar.com today.