The Ramsey Show - App - Stop Letting Money Conflicts Tear Your Relationships Apart

Episode Date: December 24, 2024

While we're out for the Christmas break, we've compiled some of our favorite Dave and Rachel calls from the past couple of years. Enjoy your day and we'll be back with a live show in the new year! Merry Christmas! Dave Ramsey & Rachel Cruze answer your questions and discuss: ‘Father-in-law is selling us whole life insurance’ 'Brother isn't buying us out of an inherited home’ ‘Open a food truck or a brick and mortar?’ ‘My wife & I don't share the same views financially' ‘Am I hurting my family's financial future?’ 'Will I even be able to become debt free?'

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225. Multiple number one best-selling author and Ramsey personality, Rachel Cruz. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones here. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money.

Victor is with us in Irvine, California. Hi, Victor. How are you? I'm doing well, Dave. How are you? Better than I well, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hi. So three years ago, me and my wife was buying a life insurance policy from our father-in-law. We both make a pretty good income, but essentially, we're like three years in now. And I've just,

I know we've maxed out our 401k, our Roth IRA, but I was talking to my father-in-law and he essentially said, it's like a good tax free investment, um, that we can do with our custom whole life policy. Um, and since we already maxed out our 401k and our rock IRA, and, um, we even like bought a house recently. We're just not sure if that's like the best way moving forward to put our money in at least with our extra money. So that's our situation. Um, Victor, you've been married three years, you said? Yeah, we've been married for about three years, yeah. Okay. So you're in your mid-20s, I assume. Yeah, me and my wife are both 27, so we got married around 24.

Okay. Well, I have to give you full disclosure here, okay? I have been trashing whole life policies and people who sell them for 30 years as being one of the biggest possible rip-offs in the financial world. So if you say Dave Ramsey to your father-in-law, his face is going to melt off. I know.

I was afraid of bringing that up to him. I would not suggest you do that. Uncle Dave would suggest you don't do that to yourself with your father-in-law. I don't think there's anything to be gained by that. So, you know, so basically he, you know, you have a guy in your life that loves you and that believes in these products you have a guy on the radio that loves you and says these products are crap and so now you've got to decide as a grown man with your grown wife uh what you guys are going to do and

then how to navigate that decision i would never never recommend that you stay, that you buy something or do something, be caught when you're a grown person because your parents said you had to, to keep them happy. I would not do that, okay? But I would also not recommend that you damage your relationship with your wife's father. I would want you to be kind and

honoring and really avoid an argument if I were you. I have family members, for instance, that I've been married for 41 years, Victor. I have family members that vote the wrong way. They don't know how to family members that vote the wrong way oh my gosh they don't know how to vote they pick the wrong party and they're just dumb about it and i love them anyway i love

them anyway we have family members that have credit cards and that and i don't i don't i don't create at thanksgiving a political argument with people who aren't going to change their minds that i love a financial argument that i love or a financial argument i don't well i don't give financial advice for people who don't ask for it and that includes everyone family included people who ask i will tell you so for victor talk for victor why you don't like whole life insurance as an investment i i just well he knows he already knows why i don't like it don't you uh i know that you you mentioned that like the return over like 30 years is minimal yeah it is and when you die when you die the money that you have in there is gone they only pay the face amount and there is

no such thing as a whole life policy that is tax free if it actually got a rate of return. It is tax free because you are the only way you can get your money out is to borrow your own money. And honey, if you go over at the bank and borrow money, they don't charge you taxes on that either. So, of course, it's tax free,, but it is not a tax good tax dodge. It is not a good investment. It is not a good product. But now you can research a bazillion things that we have said about that, and then you've still got this deep, horrible relational problem.

And I would recommend that you just be kind. If you decide to not use this product, which of course is my recommendation, I would recommend you don't get into an argument with your father-in-law about it. I would just say, you know, we've looked at it, and for us, we've decided to go another direction, and we sure hope, adult to adult, that you'll just respect our decision, even though you think I'm wrong, and I want you to respect my decision. And so, you know, I have a friend who's so stupid that the other day he leased a car,

and he's even dumber than that. He drove the car to my house to show it to me, okay? But I didn't talk to him about car leases i just went hey my friend has a nice car i'm gonna be happy for him and he's happy about his car and he didn't ask my opinion and so i'm not gonna just go adult to adult i'm gonna celebrate his adult decision even though he did a nice thing in a dumb way, you know, right? I mean, I can still be friends with a guy. A hundred percent. So I want you to be kind to your father-in-law.

Yeah, even, yeah, I think the biggest thing is going to be, it could be, I don't know your father-in-law, but if this is what he does for a living, it's a shot to the ego. I mean, like, right? I mean, if he believes in it so much much like if what we teach you believe so much that if we can't you know i mean it's a hard it would be a hard thing to say they're going to go a different direction from what i not just believe but the work i do so just be prepared for that and you and your wife need to have a lot of conversations victor and she's really got to be in this yeah and just really dive in and you guys have to say okay what's best for us and find the facts because the facts is what's going to prove it to you victor and you both have to be on that same page and say okay this is what we're doing and i i totally agree with you keep it minimal

i mean like just say hey i think we're gonna pass um your wife has to be able to just look at her dad and which will be hard a smile and say i love you and we're going a different direction yeah you know dave i love you and we're love you. And we're going a different direction. Yeah. You know? Dave, I love you. And we're going a different direction. But I'm going a different direction. All right. That's the thing. You're announcing something on the air?

No, but it's, yeah, this is where the, yeah, the relational factor of it is just, it can be messy. But it's also a great practice, Victor, for you and your wife. You've got to learn to do this anyway. Yes right over other things yes because you know they're they're otherwise you know they're gonna interfere when you get ready to name your first child they're going to interfere when you get ready to buy your first house they all do it out of love and no they do it out of love don't pet me i don't pet me. I don't interfere in your kids' names. No, you don't. That would be Mimi that does that.

We don't tell our kids' names until they were born. Because you'll get a Mimi eye roll. We hand the baby to the grandparent and we say. Just don't name them Moonbeam. That's all I request. No hippie names. That's all I request. This is the Ramsey Show.

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Hi, Linda. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hey, my husband and I are wondering how he can acquire his portion of the will that his mother wrote. So she passed away in 2006 and wrote a will giving the family home to her children. And his brother has lived in the house all of his life and still lives there. Was the will probated?

The will was probated by their stepdad in 2007 okay she passed away in 2006 and um but okay and so the stepdad wait a minute the stepdad had nothing to do with the house and the will right yes it was just one of those where it was he had the right to occupy during his lifetime the brother or the stepdad stepdad okay so he had he had a life estate and the will was and the will left the property to your husband his brother and whatever other siblings and a sister who okay was the property retitled at that time what did uh pennsylvania probate require you all to retitle it and put everybody's name on it? The house is in Colorado.

Oh, okay. And at the time of probate, it was retitled to all three siblings. Okay, so you each own a third, undivided interest it's called, okay? Right? Uh-huh. Okay, is sister still alive? No, she lost her battle with depression in 2017. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yes.

And did she have heirs? No, she did not. Okay. So I would suppose that your husband and his brother are now equal owners then. You would have to seek an attorney's advice to be 100 sure but let's play this through that's what it sounds like it sounds like they're now equal owners okay and he doesn't have to do anything to acquire it it already has his name on it the death of his sister left her half left half of hers to him and half of it to his brother and so now the two of them are 50 50 okay it's all his name's on the title if it was the

property if the property were sold he would get 50 okay okay so now what are y'all wanting to do so he had um after probably it was two almost two years after the stepfather passed away. He approached his brother about either buying him out or selling the home. And he said, absolutely not. I have no interest in selling the home, and I'm not going to buy you out. Okay. Who lives in it? His brother.

Okay. He has lived in it all his life. Okay. So he's living there for free Yes Okay He has a roommate there that pays him rent Okay

Well, here's the thing If you want to stir it up And cause this to come to an end Because this is not a fair situation This is unjust, agreed? Agreed Okay Then your husband,

does he have any relationship left with his brother at all? Well, they love each other. I didn't ask that. I asked if they had a relationship. Mountain in the middle. I said they love each other. There's this mountain in the middle of the house.

Well, it depends on how much your husband wants to invest in this. But if we want to try to save the relationship, you get on an airplane, and he flies out there, and he sits down with his brother, and he says, okay, you living here for free is done. I'm a 50% owner in this, and you can't live here for free anymore. You have to move out. I'm demanding that.

Or we have to sell the house, or you have to buy me out. Now you decide which one you want to do. You want to move out and we rent it and we split the rents that we'd collect or do you want to buy me out or whatever. I'll give you a deal if you want to buy me out. But you sitting here and me getting nothing and you living here for free ends. I'm done. I love you. I hate what you're doing to me. it's nasty and it's wrong and it's unjust and he says that to him in person to his face okay and then if the brother goes well I'm not going to do that you say yes you are because if you do not I'm going to hire an attorney and I'm going to sue in circuit court to have this partnership disbanded, and the court is going to force the sale of the house to give me my half.

And it's going to cost me $5,000 or $10,000, and you're probably never going to speak to me again, but I'm at the point that I'm tired of you screwing me over. This is how you have to handle it if you're going to handle it. Otherwise, you just got to accept it and go on. And then you have to handle it if you're going to handle it. Otherwise, you just got to accept it and go on. And then you have to hire an attorney, and the judge will demand that you sell the house to liquidate the estate. And they'll sell the house, and the brother will get half the money, and you'll get half

the money. And liquidating the estate is selling the house, correct? Do what? I said liquidating the estate is selling the house, correct? Yeah, you sell the house. Okay. Sell the house, and? Yeah, you sell the house. Okay. Sell the house and you get your half. Now, or we can have the house appraised and at 80%, 80 cents on the dollar of the appraisal,

I'll take my half. I'll give you a 20% discount if you want to buy me out. How much is the house worth, Linda? From what we can tell, it's probably right around $400,000. Yeah. This is just wrong. And your brother-in-law's a leech. He's a parasite.

And you're tired of it. That's why you called. Is your husband as tired of it as you are, or is he just going to let this go on? Oh, no, he's as tired of it as I am. Okay. He's just a super nice guy. Okay. If he wants to try to be super kind to his brother, he can fly out there and try to do this very calmly and just say, this is over.

Okay. You're going to buy me out, or the judge is going to force the sale of the house. Because when I leave this conversation, if we're not in agreement, I'm going to contact an attorney, and we're going to court, and the house is going to be sold. Because you living here for free is not right,

and it's not fair. You've been taking advantage of me, and I can't let you do that anymore, even though I love you. That's wrong. And if you want to buy me out, can't let you do that anymore even though I love you that's wrong and and brothers and if you want to buy me out I'll give you a discount on the appraisal but I own 50 you own 50 and you can't live here free anymore that's over fly take a plane ticket invest a plane ticket into the relationship try to do it nice and see if you can get him to move

off he may just think that your brother your my brother's a nice guy he's relationship try to do it nice and see if you can get him to move off he may just think that your brother your my brother's a nice guy he's never going to do anything and he might be right talking about your husband right yes i know i know he sees your husband as a target and he's using it he sees he thinks your husband's not going to do anything yeah and so if your husband doesn't want to do anything it's okay i don't care if you want if you want to just let this go on i'm not mad about it it doesn't matter but if you're going to do it that's how you do it i i would sell it to him at a discount because if you sell it you're going

to pay expenses anyway right right and so if it's worth 400 000 i'll sell you my 200 000 at 80 percent which is 160 that's a great deal you have 30 days to get me my money if you do not get me my money in 30 days i am going to begin a court proceeding that's going to force the sale of the house and don't you know and that's the end of the discussion, and then just go hire a lawyer and do it. And it'll take a dadgum year. And it'll be $10,000 out of your pocket in legal fees. Is there a way to find a reputable attorney in Colorado?

Sure. That was our other thing. It's like, how do you find one there without call one of our uh real estate endorsed local providers jump on the line at ramsey and find the real estate endorsed local providers tell me you need a good real estate attorney okay and they'll give you a recommendation and um uh that's the only way i mean you got to have somebody you that you trust and these are high high octane real estate agents that we endorse and they'll know somebody that's

a quality attorney that can litigate this but i i really wouldn't you know i it may be that when you hire the attorney and you spend five hundred dollars and he has to he decides to send a letter to the brother that that wakes the brother, and then the brother does it. Because the brother's probably, he's been living this way a long time, he's probably not going to take the first, he's not going to believe your husband that he's going to do anything because he's never done anything. So he's suddenly a man of action?

That's going to be shocking to the brother. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So, if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11

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So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey Personality. My daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Ashley is with us in Charlotte, North Carolina. Hi, Ashley. How are you?

Hey, Dave. Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited to talk to you guys. You too. What's up, kiddo? So my husband and I are looking into maybe starting a new business. We are totally debt-free with a paid-for house. We have one year of emergency funds saved up. Wow. Nice. Yeah, we've been following you and doing you for seven years

since we got married, and so we just got debt-free not too long ago and paid our house off about a month ago. Oh, wow. Congratulations, Ashley. Way to go. Thank you. So, I love food. I love making food. People really seem to respond well when I post things on Facebook, sharing things, and they have actually come to us wanting us to maybe start a food truck or a cafe of some kind. We talked to our CPA, and he was leaning more towards a food truck. He said the overhead was less. They were less likely to not go under because of all the overhead. But my concern with the food truck we have been looking into then is, of course, it would still be considered a depreciating asset, correct? Even if we paid cash and saved up for it, it's still depreciating versus like a brick and mortar.

I guess if we don't own it, we're still paying rent. So I just didn't know if you were winged one way or the other. I would not decide my business model based on either one of those things or based on a CPA's advice. Okay. You need to decide your business model on what you want your dream is what do you want to operate do you want to operate a food truck do you want to operate a brick and mortar and then let's figure out how to pay for it and how to make the money to how to make it profitable right and is there another is there another in between step like uh start catering

as a start and start to build up your customer base from catering. I know several excellent chefs that have big operations now that started as catering. Gotcha. And what's your end goal, Ashley? Do you want to be a restaurant owner? Yeah. Like, do you want to like, is there a big dream or is it more just a passion of yours and you love it and it's something to do on the side that's really fun? I've always wanted to be more of a chef, like the

food and part of it is more like my dream and passion. My husband was in the food industry for a while and he actually was the business side of it. So as far as that, I think the brick and mortar having like a small cafe, I'm thinking something kind of small scale of like the Cracker Barrel. I'd love to have like a little store inside and be able to combine healthy like whole food, plant-based foods with more like regular foods, like a blend of the two. So people that – my husband eats burgers and fries and steak. I think the only reason you're considering a food truck is it's not, doesn't sound congruent with this dream. Gotcha.

The cafe sounds congruent with the dream. It does, yeah. Now that you've talked me through that, it does, yeah. Yeah. It just feels like it the way you say it out loud. And here's the thing. Your CPA is right about one thing. Restaurants have a higher failure rate than almost any other business category.

Really? Yeah. And so you've got to really lean in on the business operations part, not just the food quality. If you make the best and healthiest food on the planet and no one is there, this isn't going to work. Right. And so there's the marketing and the operations of this. And what I would do is I probably would start as a catering operation and build a customer base and then look for a place to lease don't buy a piece of real estate and uh build you up build you out a little restaurant and your leasehold improvements that you put in there will be a depreciating asset too

and but let me i mean but ashley like i mean and tell me if i'm wrong i mean but this could be hundreds of thousands of dollars i mean this isn't just like a little thing and i wonder if that's why the cpa was like yeah food truck is me way less expensive to get something going not necessarily i mean if you if you found a location that the building was there and someone else that had something in the kitchen in there some of the commercial kitchen items are in there you go in and renovate you might spend less than a food truck to renovate it it's possible and you know to upgrade it get the fresh coat of paint and uh you know uh that'll work uh you could uh start with a food truck if you want to but i just the question is just what you want to do for the next five years of your life and i think you want to cook and i think he wants to run

a restaurant and that doesn't sound like a food truck to me yeah um that's a different gig it's a different field and even ashley like you know uh we've been to a few places uh over the last probably two or three years people's homes for events and they have someone come in and cook and the you know and the and the chef guy brings his card around he's like next time you guys have a party i can do a i can do a dinner for eight of your friends or like you know whatever it is and i'm like if you get the right people in a room that taste your food that then spread the word right like there's ways to do it so the catering if that's what you're meaning but even coming in and cooking for for friends and and having them bring friends and you know i mean you can start small just to get the word out uh about what

you're doing because it sounds great. But also, I just know restaurant, it's just a big investment. It's a hard business. When you hear brick and mortar, I mean, it's just, you're going to be having staff. If there's not already a kitchen, how much those appliances cost? I mean, it's just, it's a lot. It's a lot. Not that it can't be done, Ashley, but it is, it's a feat to take on. So it's you guys really brainstorming. You can drop $100,000 in a truck, and you can drop $100,000 into your leasehold improvements, either one, real quickly. Make sure you've got the cash,

and that way then the only overhead you've got is your lease and your payroll and your food cost. I just can think of probably three or four food trucks that started as food trucks that ended up becoming restaurants because their brand was so big here in Nashville that they opened up a restaurant because of that so i'm just wondering is that a is that a that's not a stair-stepping it can be but then you got you still got you either continue to operate both or you've got this extra truck left over yeah yeah so yeah i i just i the question is what she wants to do i mean i'm with you on the idea of

starting some chefing in home stuff um we were at a high-end uh charity event your mom and i the other day and um the food was incredible she collects the chef's card and um he's helping us with the family reunion that's coming up so i mean you know that's so that's how that's how you get the business out and so it's it's but you can build a clientele based on that and then if like we have friends that are chefs that have do in-home stuff and if they ever open something we'd be a customer right you know so because we're a customer now that kind of thing same kind of thing with this guy and that's a process there that you can go through um and pick up the book, The E-Myth by Gerber and read that. He talks a lot about learning to work on your business, not just in your business.

Because being a chef is one of the pieces you have to do to operate a successful restaurant. The other pieces are business orientation that your husband has apparently and i would lean into all of that i really really would open phones at 888-825-5225 thank you for listening out there america we appreciate you if you are new to the ramsey show and you're trying to figure out what in the world are we talking about? That's snowballs, baby steps. What does all these words, all this vernacular mean? Well, you can go to ramsaysolutions.com and click on the get started button, the get started button. It is a free process to help you figure out what you're looking for in this Ramsey journey and how we can best serve you on this Ramsey journey, where you are now and what your next steps are, all those kinds of things.

So click Get Started at RamseySolutions.com, and we'll get you moving. And, you know, you become acquainted with the baby steps and the debt snowball and all those kinds of things if you just keep listening to the show. We'll keep talking about it, and you'll start to understand what we're dealing with. And you'll look it up, and you'll watch a YouTube video. Or some people go through, if you want to do the best thing you can do, go through Financial Peace University. And that will line you up and get you on the fast track to doing everything and getting control of your money and changing everything. So all of that to say that we're here to help you. So check it out at ramseysolutions.com. There's a time in your life and at the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever

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and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate that you couldn't get anywhere else. Go to YRefi.com today slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. Might not be in all states. Today's question comes from Carter in New Hampshire. He says, my wife and I are avid listeners, but we don't share the same views financially. I'm an analyzer when it comes to finances and it annoys her to no end. I have a two-year emergency fund and our home is paid off. Together we earn $200,000 a year. She likes to spend and wants me to co-sign on a vehicle that's $80,000. She has $10,000 in credit card debt

and she pays $15,000 each year for private school for our kids. If I mentioned anything about money, I'm the one who's wrong. I wish I could say that we pay for vacations, recreational toys and trips, but these funds come from my checking account and she gets mad when I say that I pay for them.

Is it okay to have an account together to pay bills and separate for spending accounts? from my checking account and she gets mad when I say that I pay for them. Is it okay to have an account together to pay bills and separate for spending accounts? I mean, I think you guys are disjointed completely when it comes to money. I mean, obviously this is like a pick and choose what we want to do together and what we don't. And I think the goal here is that you are a unified team with all of it, right? All of it together. So the spending, the saving, where your kids are going to college or to school, what kind of cars you guys buy, that you are in agreement together in those things. And so she's a spender. So you guys are in a great position. You have no debt. You have great emergency funds. So if she wants to go spend a little you can't be crazy and be like no you can't spend anything right and you sound a little bit you sound a little crazy to a degree carter uh that she just wants a little bit of

freedom but then she on the other end is not what it sounds like a thousand dollar car and credit card debt that's crazy the same value system though is what's not being played out so i think that's that's the issue is that you guys are functioning not on The same value system though is what's not being played out. So I think that's the issue is that you guys are functioning not on the same value system and so it's looking like a mess like this. And the accounts that doesn't fix it. I don't think they have a money problem.

I think they have a marriage problem. Right, but that's the problem is people think, is it okay if we just have separate accounts? And what that does is it sweeps the one issue that you actually need to talk about under the rug. It doesn fix it it actually continues to alienate you guys from each other so no carter i would not do these separate accounts i would force you guys to work out of one account because to your point it's actually going to reveal other issues that are actually going on in your marriage yeah and i'm the one that's wrong she gets mad you know if you just change out the subject

and it wasn't money and you're talking about something else and she acted that way or you acted that way you over analyzed everything which is what you're doing for sure and on the other hand then she's acting like a princess and stomping her foot with her little red face out till i get what I want. And if you don't let me have what I want, then you're wrong. This is a marriage problem. You guys desperately need to sit down with someone. Because here's the problem, okay? The probability that you have a high-quality marriage going forward

using this system is close to zero. You may or may not get divorced later, but you're definitely not having fun in your relationship. And the probability that you build wealth with both of you pulling at each other the whole time instead of pulling the wagon? No, almost zero. One of the things we found when we studied wealthy people is the data tells us that they work together with their spouse. They're unified in their goals. They're aiming at the same target and pulling the trigger together. That's what we're doing.

And you can't drag along a princess she can't drag along someone who over analyzes everything and has no fun left anywhere in life because you squeeze every dollar until george washington screams and no you can't you gotta you gotta have something in here we gotta have some flow to this some relationship to this that's not in here and so yeah this desperately screams of a need for marriage counseling to me. For sure. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Bo's with us in Las Vegas. Hi, Bo.

How are you? I'm doing good. Can you hear me? Absolutely. What's up? So I wanted to know if I can keep using my credit card, and I know you're probably going to say no, but I'm going to try anyway. You're right. No.

Do your convincing though so give it your best shot Bo all right so this is a unique situation I've never heard it on your show and I've been only listening for like five months okay so I have one credit card um I have a medical condition and my medication is insanely expensive and, uh, I can't afford it until I hit my deductible, which my insurance will cover, but my deductible is $13,000. And so the pharmaceutical company that makes it will reimburse me for it and i've been doing this for two years and so i use the credit card and i get cash back for the and then they reimburse me in a few days so is that something that i would keep it for why don't you just pay cash why don't you pay cash i can i have but it's really expensive oh good we you pay cash? I can. Why?

But it's really expensive. Oh, good. Well, pay cash. And then you still get reimbursed. It's really expensive either way, dude. You're out the money either way, right? Yeah, but I get the money back from the pharmaceutical company. Okay, and so you use your cash, and then you get your cash right back. I can do that, but I get another $300.

Oh, whoop-de-doop-dee. Okay. You're going to sell your financial soul for $300? Well, it's... I never met a millionaire who said, you know, Dave, I made all my money on my airline miles. It's not airline miles. I know. It's $300.

$300 has never created a millionaire. Okay. It's biscuit money. I agree. I just don't make a lot of money, so it's really small. Well, then, if $300 is a lot of money, then that's a different problem, isn't it? You have an income problem, then. Yeah, I don't think I'm going to make more money.

Why? It's not because I'm lazy. I'm not really worth a lot of money why i society would say i lack intelligence or education they're different you don't like intelligence you've carried on a very clear conversation in a high pressure situation you don't like and lack intelligence you've you've done a good job in this banter that we've had here which was kind of fun so you're not lacking in intelligence you might not have education that doesn't mean you're not able to make a living what do you do what do you make i make uh 26 35 an hour okay that's not super bad you were getting 40 hours no i worked well it varies but seasonally i work between 30 and 45 hours a week it depends on what time of year what do you do uh it's kind of i work

for a distribution center i'm i operate the simplest way I could say it is I manage robots. Okay, are you 24? Are you 24? No, I'm 42. I'm sorry? 42. 42, okay. So here's the deal.

What I would do if I were you is I would say, hey, I can be anything I want to be. What are the steps to being one of those? And I could make twice as much money being one of those. And I want to go start working towards being one of those. And it could be an apprentice program. It could be a certification program. It could be a couple of classes at the local community college. I don't know.

But you're capable of doing all of those things. And so your issue is that you need to increase your income and have some career goals. We'll help you with that. I'm going to give you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. I want to get the title right, so I turned around and looked at it. And it's got in it the Get Clear Assessment. I don't have to look at it because we've

had over 100,000 people take this assessment. And it'll help you get clear on what your skills are. And I want you to go work on that bow to where $300, to where you're no longer in a place where you think $300 changes your life. Don't be in a place where you think $300 changes your life. You want to be in a better place than that. And then you don't fall into the traps of these stinking banks and these stinking credit card companies. And you get sucked in thinking they're actually there to help you. They're not.

So problem solved. Hang on. We'll give that to you as our gift. This is the Ramsey show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. The phone number here is 888-825-5225.

Rachel Cruz, multiple number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality, co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, and my daughter is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Nicole is in Salt Lake City. Hey, Nicole, how are you? Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Well, I'm so grateful to actually get to speak to both of you, especially another working mom. I'm concerned with whether or not I would be harming my family's financial future if I take an extended maternity leave with my second child. I didn't take that with my first child, and I've had a lot of regret about that. And my husband and I are considering whether or not I could take a year or two off of work. If I did, we wouldn't be able to put as much toward our debt snowball as we have. We've paid off about $217,000 in 2020. What do you do, Nicole?

I'm an attorney. What do you make? Net take home for both of us. No, I said what do you make? I think my net take home is $120,000. What about your husband? His is about maybe $60,000, I think. No, it was $70,000 last year. His is about maybe 60, I think. No, it was 70 last year.

His net was 70. What's he do? He owns some car washes. Okay. So you're going to cut your income by 60, 65%. Yes. Okay. And then we would still have $86,000 of my student loan left. It's our only debt besides our mortgage that we still have left to pay on, but we've been paying on it.

And so it's going to set us back. We'll be able to make the minimum payments and maybe a little bit more with distributions, but maybe inconsistently. And I guess I'm just, I'm concerned because we started a family later in life. We'll both be in our early 40s by the time I wanted to go back to work. And so obviously having that debt and then having not invested that long, I'm just concerned this is going to cause harm long term. I kind of want to like relieve you from that, Nicole. I don't think it's harm long term. I mean, I think, yeah, your goals are going to shift if your family goals shift, and that's a reality. But it's not like you're putting your family in massive danger here, right? I mean, I have some other ideas that we can talk through here in a second.

But so many women feel this, and especially since you're the breadwinner, that I have to be the one to save everything. And it's up to me, and I'm going to put my family in danger. You know, like this language that you're using, it's very heavy. And I think it's – what I would say is that it's you're putting more pressure on yourself than needs to be there. Yes, getting out of debt is a huge goal. And it's one that I want you guys to work towards and one that you've made such significant progress to. But like we said, the last hour of the show, we talked so much about how debt is a tool to create or I'm sorry, money is a tool to create a life that you love. And you guys

have to look at your family unit and your family is a priority, Nicole. I mean, your family is one that you're like, okay, what is best for us right now? And as a mom, I get it. Like that, I mean, I pulled back from work after my third because I was like, I just, I want to be home more. And so all of that is real. Now, does that mean we want to stop everything you guys have been doing and the progress you've made? No, I wouldn't suggest that either. And so I think a wonderful middle ground, Nicole, for you is to have, because I mean, an attorney, I'm like, that is such a stressful job and the hours you work.

I mean, I can't even imagine. So what does life look like if Nicole stays home and her career shifts and your career looks different for a year or two? What does that look like? And so I would start having that kind of conversation of, and I don't know this world, so you probably can direct me better in this conversation from this point on in this sense, but is there work to be done that you could do, outsource your skills at some level, some degree that is significantly less stress and less time

than what you've been doing and still be bringing in some kind of flow right because i offset the student loans that are there because of law school right you know right so let's use the law degree to clean up the law degree mess but does it have to your life maybe not maybe not in a traditional right attorney setting right what rachel's saying and rachel says she pulled back she pulled back she's not uh but she's not out of the saddle either she's you know her social footprint has grown uh she's still doing appearances she's still on this show still launched a number one best-selling kids book a few months ago uh and so and did all of that on you know less than a full-time hour slate in an office yeah correct yeah in the office and so um you know but we just shifted around how what we're doing with her brand and how we're doing that

for a season here while the little one is there and And so for you, that's what I would present to you. What does that shift look like, right? Because there is a level of responsibility that you guys have financially, right? That you have to fulfill, you have to make these payments and getting out of debt, as you know, lifts so many burdens, right? If you didn't have this debt, then you could have the option to stay home full time if you wanted, right? So, but,

but I do think that there's something there that there still can be money to be brought in. I think you have to think creatively and that's probably what I would encourage you to do to have something. And then he, honestly, Nicole will probably have to step up his game. If you guys keep this momentum with paying off debt,

I just don't want you to think it's an all or nothing. Yeah. Things can shift. And harm is not the right word. Rachel's right. That's an overstated word, a mom guilt word in this, because you guys can't win, okay? You get mom guilt if you're at home because you feel like you should be at work. And if you're at work, you get mom guilt because you feel like you should be at home. I mean, it's a no win. And there's always some moron on either side of the coin telling you you should be doing the other one, right?

And so we're not going to be either one of those, but probably some kind of a change, a hybrid approach, because there's a part of me that says, okay, you went to all the trouble and the expense and the debt to be a lawyer, to go cold turkey doing nothing with that, while you've still got $80,000 of it outstanding, that doesn't feel right either. Okay?

But also not addressing this need that you've got, this desire you've got to be at home doesn't feel right. And so I think somewhere in there along Rachel's suggestion is the proper answer. But I want to take the, I'm with Rachel, I want to take the guilt thing of, are you doing irreparable harm? No, you're not doing irreparable harm. You just kind of got to think through. I spent a lot of who I am in money, time, debt, effort, brainpower to be a lawyer.

And to cut that off completely, even for just two years, feels pretty extreme. Yeah. And Nicole, and everyone's obviously created so differently, but considering what you've done and as you listed all that, Dave, I was thinking like, you know, you might look up in six months and be like, oh my gosh, I'm crazy. I'm not happy because I need some output. You know, so you may find that in you, how you're wired, you're going to want to do something as well. And so that's a possibility too. So you're doing great, Nicole. You're going to be okay. You're going to do good. You're asking the right questions. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, You're going to be okay. You're going to do good. You're asking the right questions. actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs. And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to

sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids' names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find. That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful. I love these reports. So far, get this, they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites, and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible. Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it.

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Make sure to check it out you guys rachel cruz ramsey personality is my co-host today i'm dave ramsey your host this is common sense for your dollars and cents concept congress can't grasp it's called the ramsey show thank you for being with us the number number is 888-825-5225. Aaron is with us in Las Vegas. Hi, Aaron. How are you? Good, guys. Thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Sure. Our pleasure. How can we help? Well, my wife and I love the show. We've gone through FPU. We're in Baby Step 6 right now, so we're super excited about that. But a couple of months ago, our situation changed. I'm currently in the process of being diagnosed with a very rare form of muscular dystrophy.

And so just the reason I say in the process, I've had a genetics test that's a possible match. My doctor is 90% sure and I've done a biopsy, but next week I actually find out the results of the biopsy. And so we've obviously done the baby steps. We're in a good situation that way. But I guess my question is what insurance and what type of long-term planning would you suggest in this? And I guess, am I too late to get to the party to get insurance in this sort of situation now life insurance uh yes yes you're too late to the party you know okay all right um sorry uh the uh and then how you plan for it would be based on, I don't know anything about muscular dystrophy in this millennial.

I mean, I remember the telethon when I was a kid or something, and I was one of the dinosaurs around the earth, and I don't know what this prognosis means for you. Do you? Or what do you understand so far? I know it's very rare. There's less than a thousand people in the U S that have what I have. And,

um, it's, I'm, I'm fully functional right now, but it's possible in the next 10 to 15 years, I could be, uh, in a wheelchair and I could lose,

um, um, breathing function. So I'd have to have a respiratory device. Oh, Aaron, I'm so sorry. Wow. Thank you. And then that following that stage it probably doesn't end well I'm guessing. It's

very possible yes. It continues to deteriorate or does it plateau off with the breathing device? It can plateau but more than likely it will deteriorate from there. How old are you? I'm 46. Okay. So we're talking about 60 years old, give or take. Exactly.

I'm sorry, man. It's hard to face something like that. Do you guys have kids? No, we do not. How's your wife? She's so supportive. Very, very, very awesome. Yeah, she's great.

Well, I think one of the things I'll tell you from working with families, I don't know anything about the medical world, except that they call it practicing medicine for a reason. They're practicing and so things in other words things change and extra opinions and continuing to study and continuing to argue with the uh what's in front of you is good not in a denial way but just not accept that that one guy says okay you're gonna be gone in six months and you go well maybe not maybe i'm gonna try this and you know so on so you know you're gonna

you're gonna you're gonna become an expert on this dad blame it you know to be an advocate for yourself so i'm gonna tell you to continue to do that and don't just accept one thing and walk away i don't think you were going to anyway but But second, third, fourth, and later on, eighth opinions just keep working the problem. Now, while you're doing that, there is – I have perceived in others, not myself. I've not experienced this, okay? So just like someone calls me up and says i've got a a stage four uh cancer diagnosis and they're giving me four months to live okay that call has come in here over the years several times or i've actually sat with people in a room where they were telling me this stuff and they're

they're uh already have processed the emotions and now are going, OK, what the flip do I do kind of thing. All right. So that's why you're calling. So in that case, what I found is, is that facts are your friends. And so there is a tremendous piece that comes from having your spiritual house in order, number one. But then, number two, getting your house in order, number one, but then number two, getting your house in order financially. And you say, okay, if this unfolds, I got about this many years and we're talking wheelchair. And then I got about this many years on a breathing device. And if it doesn't stop deteriorating, I've got this many years. And so you, okay, based on that, I'm going to lay out a plan. And then if I get a different result, I'll change the plan.

But if you go ahead and make sure, okay, I got a will in place. I'm going to investigate and find out and make sure Dave's right about life insurance. I'm going to say, this is our wealth building plan. We're going to continue to pay off the house. We're going to do this and this and this. And, you know, the more detail, and you know you you the more detail it sounds ridiculous but the more detail you say given this diagnosis this is the exact plan once that detail is in place it gives you just like a release you know a sense of peace but having the medical be

chaotic and the financial future being chaotic simultaneously is almost more than some folk can bear. So I'm going to encourage you to do what continue the journey. You start with this phone call, and that is really detail out exactly what is your version of the baby steps facing this rare form of muscular dystrophy. Because it's almost chronic in that it's not a one-year or two-year diagnosis. It's a 15-year or 20-year diagnosis, right? And today it is anyway. It may change next week, and it may change for the better next week.

So facts are your friends. Details in the financial arena are not you being cold they're giving your wife peace and you peace and then you can turn back around and concentrate on being well does that make any sense at all no it it totally does and just hearing about this i mean we found out in march and like you said it's it's about's about emotionally trying to register it and then trying to figure out what the facts are. And I feel like we're at that place right now, and now I'm going, oh, wait, I have to plan about the future now and figure that out, which is why, like you said, I called. Yeah, and it's a different future than it was in March. And truthfully, there may be a treatment that comes a year from now, you know, and then the thing changes again because you're not going to stop studying this.

You're living it, you know. Aaron, do you guys know medical bills? Have they given you guys any direction? Like your insurance, do you guys know financially at all what the costs will be at certain stages of this? We do not. And it's because it's so rare. I mean, it's just being discovered sort of thing. So I'm in a research study right now. Good. It's put me in one to hopefully take care of some of the medical bills, but also figure what this thing out and how it does in the long term, right?

Yeah. Well, I can tell you this. Continuing a big old pile of money in your 401K and a paid-for house is still going to help the situation. So that part didn't really change, right? Right. situation so that part didn't really change right right i mean it it's if you live with this deterioration and disability um or you don't and you leave her with the situation either way a big old pile of money in a paid for house ain't going to be bad right true so you know we could keep

working four and six you, the only question is in between, like Rachel saying, do we need to pile up some cash for interim treatments or treat, you know, we're going to fly to Czechoslovakia because there's a treatment there that's not covered by insurance. Heck, I'm going, man. Heck, we're paying off the house. Get on an airplane. Let's go, you know, and we'll redistribute that cash in a different way out of the budget. And, of course, you're going to anticipate your income changing potentially as well as you go along. And so all of that goes with it. But just, you know, keep adjusting the plan.

But the more detail the plan is, the more peace she's going to have, you're going to have. And then you can turn your energy around to fighting the disease instead of fighting the money. And that's what people that are with a cancer diagnosis are doing as well. So, man, I'm so sorry. And, Aaron, we're here for you. We're not going anywhere. If you need something, you call anytime.

And tell your wife to call. If you, for some reason, aren't able to get on the phone, we'll help any way we can. Thanks for calling, calling man i'm sorry rachel cruz ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today in the lobby of ramsey solutions on the debt free stage stephanie is with us hi stephanie how are you hi i'm good dave and rachel how are you both? We're honored to have you. Where do you live? I am about 25 minutes away from Boston, Massachusetts. Awesome. How much debt have you paid off? About $105,000. Way to go, kiddo. Excellent. How long did this take you? Three

years and eight months. Wow. And your range of income during that time? So I started at about $60,000 and I ended at $115,000. Excellent. And what do you do for a living? So I work for a hospital. I'm a manager in IT. Good for you. Okay, cool. And what kind of debt was the $105,000? So it was everything, Dave. About $360 was medical. I had $3,100 in a car loan, $6,200,200 personal loan 7,000 in credit card debt and the biggest was my student loans it was about 88,000. Wow okay very cool okay tell us your story what happened three years and eight months ago that put you on this journey? So I've been living with that since I was 18 so I from the first time I got a credit card, I just- How old are you now? 36.

Okay. So it took me 18 years to get here. But so 2018, like I said, I'd been struggling for many years and I'd really have been praying and asking God to really help me because I never knew how to budget, just was out of control, didn't know what to do. So September, 2018, I was home on maternity leave. I had my third child and I was actually searching for sermons really to watch on YouTube. And then in my feed, it came, this couple video came up and the title was Dave Ramsey ruined our lives. And so I never saw the couple before, never watched them ever. And I never heard your name.

So, but it was a pretty, you ever, and I never heard your name. But it was a pretty good-looking couple, sharp couple, so I decided to watch. And they proceeded to say how from the time they started your program, they were getting out of debt. I mean, selling things left and right, living on rice and beans, not going out, just making sacrifices to live the life that they wanted to live ultimately. And so I, you know, and I believe it was divine connection. I believe God led me to that video. And so as I was watching, I said, wow, like they can do it. I can do it too. So I started searching for you on YouTube. At that time, I just saw a lot of the short videos, the seven to 10 minute clips. I didn't know you had a show, but I just started

digging into those, learned about the, you know, the seven baby steps. I learned about, you know, just what you teach, what you practice. And it all made sense. Like I said, I was on maternity leave. So I only had, I was making half of my income at the time because I was, it was just using my vacation time to try and spread the time out. So I downloaded the EveryDollar app and I couldn't really start the budget until October. That's when I went back to work. But I had the budget in place. I listened to, you know, Rachel Cruz and all the material that you guys put out there and tried to do my budget as best I could. And so once I went back to work in October, my budget was set and I, you know, I pretty much hit the ground running. I initially started out, I was, you know, picking up Instacart shifts, you know, even with sometimes my little kids in the car and my daughter.

I would work full time during the day and I picked up a temp agency job, you know, at the evening. So we were home. It was during COVID. So, you know, kids running around in the background, but I'm doing a temp agency job. And I also, you know, delivered pizza for Domino's, you know, a short while. Fast forward to 2020, December 2020. I interviewed and got a got a position at another hospital. So that jumped me up in my pay about twenty thousand. And the next year, 2021, about November, I got a promotion to manager. So, and that jumped me up as well. So that has been my journey up, you know, through 2018 to now.

He worked your tail off, kiddo. I was, and you know what? I believed in the vision. I believed what you taught. And I, from that first, paying off that first credit card, just seeing how free, you know, how a little bit of, you know, space in my budget. And I said, wow, this really works. And I was determined, regardless of what people said, I was determined that I was going to do it, not just for myself and my kids, to leave a legacy. And that's really why I kept going. Wow. Congratulations. Very proud of you. That's a big deal. I mean, you know, we get all different types of debt-free screams on the stage and we celebrate them all,

but you doing this with little ones over three years, working all these shifts. I mean, you've done the hard work. You've done it. Congratulations. Thank you. Incredible. Absolutely incredible. That's beautiful. What do you tell people the secret to getting out of debt is? It sounds like seven extra jobs. Well, in perseverance, but I think the biggest thing is a mindset change. You know, people that I talk to and I share my journey with, they're happy for me. But, you know, a lot of what I hear is, you know, you'll never be out of debt. You're always going to have debt.

And by soaking myself into your show, you know, listening, watching all the debt-free screams that have come across the stage, you know, watching the everyday millionaire, you know, like listening to all these people that have done it and they live debt-free, it is possible. So I think it requires a mindset shift, you know, being around different people, listening, but realizing that it is possible, but also perseverance. I mean, regardless of what comes, I mean, I had life happen during those three and eight months. But it's perseverance, being willing to persevere through and trusting God in the process. Because once you've committed to it, he will see you through the end. Amen. Amen. Well done. Very, very, very well done. Who are your biggest cheerleaders? I would say a little bit of everybody. I mean,

my mom is here, my family, they all supported me through this journey. My coworkers at work, at the time when I could pick up on call shifts, they would know I was on this journey. And so they would, you know, help me out, you know, send me there on call shifts. But I think the biggest one is my oldest daughter. During COVID, she was my babysitter. When I had to pick up the shifts, she was my babysitter. And she sacrificed a lot, but she knew what we were after. She knew the reason why we sacrificed. And she was willing to delay gratification for a season

so that we could be here today and become debt-free. So I would say she's my biggest out of everyone, my biggest supporter, my biggest cheerleader. Was it worth it? Absolutely. Absolutely. How does it feel to be free amazing i cash flowed this trip here it wasn't cheap and but i i didn't stress the money's there it's absolutely amazing and i wouldn't i wouldn't trade anything for the world i would do it again if i had to and you don't have any payments that's the beauty of making 115 120 000 a year and the ability to pick up and do whatever you need to do because

you're proving that to yourself and to your kids. So your kids got to witness a warrior princess. That's beautiful. Amen. Yeah, you got after it, kiddo. You really got after it. Well done. Very, very well done. Congratulations. You're a good mom. Absolutely. You're a good mom. We've got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That is definitely the next chapter in your story. You are on your way. Thank you. And a copy of the Total Money Makeover for you to give away to someone who was inspired by your story that you run into,

because I'm sure you've talked about it some. And, of course, Financial Peace University. We want you to go through the class. We just launched the new videos, the best class we've ever had at Financial Peace right now available. So a one-year membership will give you that as well. Thank you. If you've been through it and you want to give it away, that's fine. We're happy to have you pass it on however you want to do it.

It's very, very good. All right, bring the kiddos up and tell us their names and ages. So I have Sanaya. Sanaya is 15 years old. Emanuela, she is 5. And my youngest one, At uh sanaya is 15 years old emmanuela she is five and my youngest one uh atara she's three years old all right love it beautiful very very very well done all right stephanie from boston mass three years and eight months to pay off a hundred and five thousand sixty three jobs i'm exaggerating a tiny bit, but not much.

And some help from the teenage daughter. That's just beautiful. 60 to 115,000 income during that time. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Yeah!

Woo-hoo-hoo-hoo! Well done! Oh, man. She made me tear up. She gets it. She gets it, and she pushed it through. That's beautiful. Very, very well done.

That lady's a force of nature right there, man. That's what you have to do. She said it beautifully. What's it take? It takes a mindset change. I know, I know. And beautifully. What's it take? It takes a mindset change. I know, I know. And you know it's not forever. It's a mindset change. But in those moments and those nights, it's hard to leave, and she still did.

I'm going to live like no one else so that later I can live and give like no one else. This is the Ramsey Show. The best way to make the most of your money is to make your money do what you want it to do instead of wondering where it went. Tell your money what to do instead of wondering where it went.

Most people in this life live reactively. But people who are proactive, who happen to things things intentionally are the ones that we call successful people in the wealth building world if you're going to happen to your money you do that with a budget and every dollar is the budget that'll help you do it it's the app that's free in the app store and google play download every. Get the premium version while you're at it and start working with your spouse, working the baby steps, working paycheck planning. There's all kinds of tools inside this thing.

They're going to help you do the Ramsey system more efficiently, and it really sets it up to win. Go to EveryDollar.com or download the EveryDollar app for free in the App Store or Google Play today. Dorothy is with us in Fort Myers, Florida. Hi, Dorothy. How are you? Hi, David.

Hi, Rachel. Thank you for taking my call. And I'm in Naples, just so you know. Okay, cool. How can we help today? Well, I unfortunately am a widow. My husband committed suicide last year. Oh my gosh. Sorry. And I would really appreciate it if you'd let me borrow your Magoo glasses to see my way

through my mess. I'm so sorry. Wow. Me too. Me too. It was certainly something that we weren't expecting. And now I'm, you know, I have a lot of debt and I want to get rid of it. And I have some very specific questions for you. One of them is I have an IRA that has some money in it that was part of his, you know what the drop is? Have you heard of that term? How much is in the IRA? It's not a lot. It's about 40 grand. About 40k. And it's not invested in anything that's earning us and earning me anything. How old are you? I'm 57. Okay. And what is your career?

I don't have one. My husband wanted me to be his playmate when he retired. And we had a granddaughter who was born with some complications, and so I stopped working to help, you know, get her through that. And he just didn't want me to go back to work, so I didn't. And so we played, and we accumulated a lot of stuff. And I know I can sell that stuff to get into a much better financial situation. And it's just taken some time to kind of sort through. Sorry. To kind of sort through everything.

And I wasn't expecting to get emotional. To sort through everything and get some clarity in all of it, you know? Um, so I know I need to get a job. I do know that. And I, I want one and I, I've, I've already started looking for one and it's kind of hard not knowing what to do because I have no technical skills whatsoever because I've been out of work for so long. Um, I'm a personal person, so I know, you know, like customer service and things of that nature, I should do pretty well at. So I plan on doing that right away, and I plan on selling several assets right away. It's just taking me some time to get there.

I already downloaded your EveryDollar app, and so I'm, you know, working with that right now. What is the most pressing thing you have today that we can help you with? Well, I, you know, I still have our two trucks that I have payments on. And I have some credit card debt. And that was one of the questions I wanted to ask. Do you have any cash other than this 40K? No, sir. Okay. How are you paying light bill and food bill and all that?

His pension. Oh. I get it. Yeah. And that's supposed to die out. How much is his pension? A year or monthly. Monthly, it's just under $5,500.

And for annual, it's like $6,500. And how much is your house payment? My house payment is $1,900. I always pay $2,000. And how long does the pension last? The pension is going to end in less than five years. Okay. Good.

So we've got a really good plan here. You can survive monthly. You can survive and have been monthly on the 55 with the Every Dollar Budget. That's very possible. We may or may not use the 40. We'll see. Prefer to wait until after 59 if we can. Okay.

And you're going to get rid of the truck payments by getting rid of the trucks and getting you a car you can afford. And you're going to start the next chapter of your life. You're a wee 57-year-old. You have a lot left, a lot left. This is your chapter two. This is act two. After the curtain comes back up, we took a bow. It's an encore.

Didn't turn out like we thought it was going to. The story takes a twist, a rather tragic turn, and the heroine steps forward with her shield and her sword. Okay? Thank you. Thank you. That's you. That's where you're going.

And so what's going to happen is three years from today, you're going to be booming as the biggest real estate agent in Naples or whatever it is you choose to do. Okay? And you're going to be laughing about this little tiny pension, but it sustained you when it should have, and that was good. But it's certainly not your future. You are your future.

Okay. Right? Mathematically, you are. Emotionally, you are. Spiritually, you are. Yes. Financially, you definitely are. So you're the secret sauce to the equation, and you're up to it.

You can do it. I can tell by talking to you. I mean, you're hurting, but any normal human would be hurting with what you've gone through, honey. But I think there's a lot going on inside Dorothy. How much debt, Dorothy, you mentioned that you guys kind of traveled and and bought stuff and racked up some debt I'm just curious what what all is the debt how much credit card debt is it um I have about it's actually eighteen thousand three hundred and six dollars and thirty eight cents okay and what other debt is there um I have the house is just a little over a hundred,000. That'll be under $100,000 after September's payment. I have two trucks

totaling $21,000 and an RV that's at $15,000. Yeah. So the trucks and the RV are gone and get you a reasonable car. But that's it, right? Okay. And then we're going to plow through the credit cards. Is there anything else? The credit card? No. no i mean just monthly payments of course yeah yeah all right here's what we're going to do okay i'm going to load you up with homework are you ready to go to school yes sir all right can i ask you one more quick question yes ma'am you might now i'll wait till you're done and then maybe oh you go ahead go ahead. Go right now. Well, I had already taken one of the credit cards and put it on a 0% for 18 months, and I'm plugging away at that one. The other one has an interest rate.

It's the one that's only at $6,000. Would it behoove me to transfer that to a 0% for 18 months? Doesn't matter. You can if you want. You can if you want, can if you want but that's not your problem your problem your problem is getting the income up above and having your future lined out and once you see that then you can turn up the heat and just get rid of them and the interest rate doesn't matter when you're paying aggressively on them so if you want to it's

okay yeah but it's not really the answer to your situation at all so hold on christian's going to pick up we're going to put you into hold on. Christian's going to pick up. We're going to put you into Financial Peace University. We're going to provide you with a financial coach. All is our gift. Okay? We're people of the book, and the book instructs us to take care of widows and orphans. And we will do that today.

Okay? So you're going to get that. I'm also going to send you Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do. It has in it an assessment. I want you to take the assessment, and I want you to start the process of dreaming about what the new future looks like for Dorothy. What is it you want to be when you grow up? You're just a wee 57-year-old, just a tiny little one. You can do it.

You can do it. And, Dorothy, and I'm so proud of you. Can we just say, too, you haven't messed anything up. When people go through tragedy, we even tell them just to pause for even a year, right? So like you're not behind all of that. I know it probably feels very overwhelming, but you've done the right thing. Hey guys, if you, I'm sorry. If you want to hear the next 40 minutes of the show, it's on the Ramsey app, the Ramsey

Network app. So you can download that for free in the App Store or Google Play. Make sure you jump over and get it there. If you want to listen to all three hours or watch all three hours, you can always do that on the Ramsey Network app. It's completely free. It doesn't cost you a thing. So the last 40 minutes of the show now, if you're on talk radio, it's still there, right where it always has been. But if you're on podcast or YouTube, it's on the Ramsey Network app in the App Store or Google Play. It's completely free.

This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. This is the Ramsey Show. We help people build wealth, do work that they really love, and create actual, amazing relationships. Rachel Cruz, number one best-selling author, Ramsey personality, and my daughter is my

co-host today as we answer your questions about building wealth, doing work you love, and amazing actual relationships. So, Rachel, I'm going to do something I don't usually do. I'm going straight to the mailbag. We don't usually pull up emails on the show anymore. Wow, is it 2007? What is happening? I read this.

Occasionally, I pull off something that we get into customer care, hate mail or trolls or actual just funny stuff or really inspiring things that customers do. And you used to read it. And I read it to the staff meeting. You haven't done that in a while, I feel like. I read this one Monday morning, or whatever day it was the other day. And so James, our producer, says you've got to read this to the audience. Okay, so Dave, thanks for your practical and entertaining advice you and the team put on

The Ramsey Show. We're debt-free, including our house, worth over two million dollars. We presented our final mortgage check to Chase Bank in Hollywood, California. The journey to the bank included driving past a man dressed as Marilyn Monroe riding a bicycle, a 70-year-old woman wearing tight animal print driving a hot pink Corvette. Once at the bank bank the person ahead of us in line was covered in tattoos on her face when we handed the teller the check they congratulated us and then my husband turned to me and said we're the weirdest people in hollywood which is a high bar is the point huge thanks to you and the entire

ramsay team for your guidance and inspiration we couldn't have done it without you way to go guys that's a lot of fun that's funny we're the weirdest people in Hollywood you're so weird we say that all the time but really not exactly in that context but that's that's just straight up funny that's great open phones here at 888-825-5225 matt's in albuquerque new mexico hey matt how are you i'm doing fine uh thank you very much dave and rachel for taking my call i appreciate it sure what's up i i feel really kind of bad asking this because so many people having a rough go of it and suffering everything and yet my question seems so you know your success does not cause their problems okay well i appreciate

that anyway uh what i would like to know is if i can get a uh objective answer to the question of whether i can afford or should uh purchase or get into a golf club membership. Absolutely you should. No, I'm kidding. I was like, this is a perfect offer there. That's like asking me if you should buy a boat. I mean, come on. Really.

I thought I'd have a better chance of it if I said gun club. But anyway. No, any of these are good with me. I'm good with all of them. So all kidding aside, you know it obviously it's not a moral question it's just a ratios thing if it is a small enough percentage of your life that it doesn't matter mathematically then obviously you should do it if you're going to spend your kids college tuition to join a golf club no be a man don't do that no it's it's not that uh a golf club. No, be a man, don't do that.

No, it's not that. The golf club membership, the initiation fee plus, you know, getting the card itself would run $30,000. And then the monthly dues after that is roughly $550,000, $600,000 a month. That's pretty reasonable for most golf clubs. Hopefully it's a decent track, right? Yeah, it's a real nice course. What do you make a year?

What do you make a year? Household income is around $165,000. Okay, and what's your net worth? Including property and all of that good stuff in the neighborhood of $1.5 million. Okay, and you're debt-free? Debt-free, no mortgage, no credit card, no nothing except monthly bills. Matt, I think you've just joined the country club. Yeah.

I think you're fine. I think you're fine. I appreciate the hesitation, though. Your only problem is you're still a tightwad. That's your only problem. See, yeah, it kind of, you know, it kind of hurt a little bit, you know, because that's a lot of money for initial outlay. And there was a time, you know, six months ago i canceled an mp3 purchase because they had risen the price from 99 cents to a dollar 29 so you know i just that's

just yeah that's horrible i can't believe that they would do that to a man like you but um and that i'm assuming too you're going to use the membership correct like you enjoy golfing you're going to be using it it's not like oh i'm just going to do it it's going to just sit there and it's a waste you're going to be using it yeah i's not like, oh, I'm just going to do it. It's going to just sit there and it's a waste. You're going to be using it. Yeah, I'm not going to just say, hey, look what I got. No, absolutely. I'm going to be hacking away. So, Matt, that's the...

Y'all are like throwing out golf terms that I have no idea what you mean. So I'm assuming that's a golf hacking? Yeah, it just means he's going to dig holes in the golf course. Okay, there you go. What I would encourage, Matt, is that, you know, we talk about here on the show so often that you live like no one else. And that's what you hear a lot on the show is the sacrifice that people are taking currently

to get out of debt, to build up an emergency fund, to get to a point where their head's above water, but then to later to live and give like no one else. And so you're just at that other end of the equation. And a lot of people struggle in that latter part of the equation because they're like, oh, gosh, like, yeah, spending money feels weird or I feel wasteful. Is this OK? They ask all the same questions you ask. And so. So what I'm always looking for it to make it a wise decision and also to make it emotionally palatable is ratios.

OK, how big a percentage of your world is this and thirty thousand dollars is a percentage of 1.5 or as a percentage of 165 000 income with somebody completely dead free it's like buying a biscuit dude i mean it's not it's not going to affect your life if you take thirty thousand dollars and put in the middle of the floor and burn it your life is not going to change no okay that's my point and so that means you can afford this and because you don't even notice it doesn't affect your giving it doesn't affect your investing it affects your enjoyment of life and it's there's three things you can do with money you can enjoy it you can give it and you can invest it and you should always be doing all three. But look at the ratios, and the ratios set you free. Because I used to be that guy.

I was that guy that said, no one needs to drive a car that expensive because I'm, like, managing other people's lives or something. And that's just a bunch of crap. That's just poor-mouthing is what we call it. I mean, that's just you grow up in a neighborhood where you run down rich people. You know, and it's like, no one should ever drive a car. Who needs a car that's expensive? Well, I can tell you who doesn't need it.

Somebody can't pay for it, and they notice when they buy it. But I got a friend that made $15 million last year, and he drove up in front of my house in a $300,000 Lamborghini. But you know what? That's a smaller percentage he spent on his car of his income than you spent on your car, all of you listening. So shut up. It's none of your business what he drives. And it's not affecting him. It's a 300,000 as a percentage of 15 million.

So if you make 150,000, that'd be like buying a $3,000 car. Okay? It's the same exact ratios. So shut up. You got a full-time job managing your life. Jeez. Great job, Matt. Touchdown.

I'm proud of you. Go get the Dadgum Golf membership. You're awesome. This is the Ramsey Show. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Justin is in Austin, Texas. Hi, Justin. Welcome to the Ramsey Show.

Thank you for having me. It's an honor to be on. Certainly. How can we help? I have a kind of what would Dave do question. My wife is looking to leave education and go back to get her master's to become a therapist. And so I'm looking for the best way to approach to cash flow this and not take out any debt. We currently make about $200,000 a year.

The only debt we have is our home and one rental, which we are aggressively paying off and trying to get paid off in the next three years. And so my big question is, should I suspend retirement knowing I get a generous match from my employer to help cash flow this or just tighten up the budget? I'm curious what you would do. So a master's in counseling? Correct. Okay. To do what? To be a therapist, to counsel families, adolescents, families in need, those kind of things. Okay. So as you're probably already aware, there is a vast spectrum of potential cost on this. You can spend a lot or a little. And we already have the cost, so I know exactly how much it's going to cost me per month. How much is it going to cost you? Right about $1,400, and that's the exact amount before tax if I was to pause my retirement that I'd be getting each month. And you said your household income, those $200?

Correct. Why can't you just cash flow $1,400 and keep doing your retirement? And that's what we're thinking about doing. We just didn't know if it would be wise to suspend knowing that she could potentially come out of this making, you know, right around $80,000 to $100,000 a year. And then that would just make things not so tight. So, again, I don't want to sacrifice the retirement. But if I had to, I'm willing to. I just, again, want to make sure I'm making the right decision. Yeah, it would be more sacrificing lifestyle, Justin, than retirement is what we would probably pick.

And is it a two-year program? Minimum two-year could be two and a half-ish, depending on her internships. Gotcha. And how old are you guys? I'm 38. She's 34. Okay. Yeah, I mean, I would continue to probably just do retirements.

Yeah, I would, and then sacrifice lifestyle. I mean, I know it makes it kind of tight, and I don't know if even there's extra work you could pick up just as a side hustle, you know, every other week for a little bit just to bring in some extra cash. You could do that as well. Does she quit while she's doing this? So she's going to, the first year when she's just doing classes,

she's going to work part-time, so that will help offset a little bit of the cost. But then as she goes into her clinicals or internships, that will increase where she might not be able to work. So when all of that happens, what's the household income? Well, so my income is, well, the $200 is not what she's making right now. So anything she makes will be additional to that. Oh, so you make $200. Okay. Correct. Yeah, that's great then, because if she's making right now. So anything she makes will be additional to that. Oh, so you make $200,000. Okay.

Correct. Yeah, that's great then because if she's working part-time a little bit next year, then that's going to give you guys some breathing room. And then it's really only a year and maybe a few months of it being really focused on just cutting some lifestyle if you need to. I mean, she makes $15,000 a year. She cash-flowed it. Correct, yeah, which is what we're going to try to do. We're not sure of the workload just yet, but ideally we would like to not sacrifice retirement if we didn't have to.

I don't think you have to. I think you have to sacrifice something else. You make $200,000. You need $15,000. Yeah, I agree. Yeah, I think you don't go on vacation because we have a greater goal. I think we back Christmas down because you have a greater goal. I think we quit going out to eat to dadgum much because you have a greater goal. I think we quit going out to eat, so dadgum much, because you have a greater goal.

Or whatever your lifestyle, whatever you want to lump into the lifestyle category, what Rachel was saying is dead on. Yeah, this is a lifestyle cut. And again, it's temporary for a greater goal. And it's a wonderful greater goal. I mean, what she's going into is good. What you're paying for it is a reasonable amount. I mean, she's going to get this degree in the $30,000, $35,000 range and be helping people.

This is a good move. This is education the way it's supposed to be used to actually cause you to make more and do good. You know, that's what education is for as opposed to getting a degree in left-handed puppetry which some people do and this kind of stuff so yeah that that's this is very very good all everything you brought to us was wise except you guys just haven't looked at we need to scale back lifestyle and keep on our investment goals yep that's what i would do so uh good question thanks for calling tommy is in augusta, Georgia. Hey, Tommy, what's up? Hey, Dave. Wow, I'm so happy I got through to you.

Me too. We're happy you're here, Tommy. What's up? How can we help? Hey, I've been listening to the podcast every day for maybe a month and a half. So much of your stuff just makes a whole lot of financial sense to me, and I admire the fact that you guys bring Christ onto the radio every single day, and you guys are not ashamed of the of the gospel well thank you tommy

how can we help you today i have uh i'm getting married june 2nd yay i'm 52 years old i've never been married and i'm a little i'm a little anxious but i'm very excited. My fiance and I, between the two of us, I'll just talk about my debt right now. I have about $18,500 in student loan debt. Probably another $3,000 in a furniture, furniture debt. And I also have, um, I have my, my mortgage, uh, 90, 98,000.

So when we get married, I will be moving, uh, to her house that she has and we'll be selling mine the market value right now I believe on mine is a roughly 165 so I think I'm going to come out a little ahead and I also have $20,000 in a high yield savings account right now. I am, I've been reluctant to pay off this student loan debt all because of this, uh, this, uh, wish, wishful thinking that they're going to forgive it. But I also understand that I received that money as a loan years ago. Tommy, how can we best help you today? I'm just trying to, I guess I'm. Where to start?

I just don't know enough yet Okay About what you guys are teaching I'm very interested in it And I would like to I've been telling my fiance about it And the little bit that I know That I'm telling her about I don't know if it's really clear

If I'm getting through clear to her Okay, so Tommy What we're going to do First and foremost Is Austin's going to Tommy, what we're going to do First and foremost is Austin's going to pick up And we're going to gift you and your fiancé Who will be your wife in two weeks Our wedding gift

So congratulations, Tommy You get a wedding and Financial Peace University Coming up And so you go through that together So you guys can at least be Talking out of the same With the least be talking out of the same, you know, with the same language, out of the same perspective. But what you're going to do, Tommy, yeah, is I would take that money that in the high

yield savings account, pay off the furniture first, get rid of that $3,000 loan, and then start tackling the student loan debt. And the beautiful thing is, Tommy, when you guys sell your home, you're going to come out with about $65,000. And if she has any debt, then you're going to use some of that money to pay off hers. You guys together are going to combine your finances. You're going to look at all of your debt together, lined up regardless of whose debt it is, and start working a plan to pay that off.

You guys are going to combine incomes. You're going to be budgeting together. So that's really the first big step. And then get an emergency fund. Then you'll go on to baby steps four, five, and six. But you're going to dive deep into all of that with Financial Peace University. So I would sit down and you guys go through that together. Because that is the plan.

And working together is a really key part of this. And I know all this is new to you, maybe even new to her, of just this idea of being intentional with your money. And so I think it's kind of a fun new to you, maybe even new to her, of just this idea of being intentional with your money. And so I think it's kind of a fun thing for you, Tommy, that you're entering a new season of life as a married man for the first time. And there's probably this level of feeling like other changes are going to happen and your money is probably going to look a lot different a year from now, which is very exciting

because you may actually end up controlling it and feeling in control of it for the first time ever. So hang on the line, Tommy. Austin will pick up. Rachel Cruz, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. If you're visiting the Nashville area, put Franklin, Tennessee on your list. We're about 10 miles south of Nashville, a suburb of Nashville. And the Ramsey Solutions headquarters are right on the interstate.

You can jump off and come and sit in our visitor center and watch the show happen. We do it from 1 to 4 every day, central time, and three hours of talk radio every day. And there's a visitor center center all kinds of fun stuff to see into a bookstore a coffee shop that the coffee's free and the homemade chocolate chip cookies are free oh my gosh they're awesome too i mean you'll hate them you'll just you won't like them at all in the lobby by the way we're oh by the way we've usually got 50 to 200 folks watching the show every day out here. And it's completely free to do all that as well.

Luxurious. Easy going home atmosphere out here. You can hang out with us. It's great. The visitor center made it feel like there's pamphlets and stuff around. It's just come. It's wonderful. No, we don't have any pamphlets.

We haven't had pamphlets in years on the stage uh the debt-free stage which is also in that lobby that we're talking about thus i was doing that lee and linda are with us hey guys how are you we're good how are you so good to have you guys where do y'all live grand junction colorado oh beautiful place very nice well welcome to welcome to Nashville and all the way over here to do a debt-free scream. How much have you paid off? We've paid off $215,000 in about eight years. Wow. And cash flowed four kids, cash flowed some home improvements to house the four kids. And what was your range of income during that eight years you know we started at about 80,000 but then when we started having kids linda came home and the income dropped to 40 and now i'm finishing up about 130,000 a year cool what do you do for a living i co-own a building automation

company we do temperature control systems ah very good good and i'm gonna guess since it was eight years maybe you paid off the house we did yes we're talking to weird people that's way to go you guys a hundred percent debt free how in the world does it feel to have not have a payment in the world oh man it feels amazing it's great almost like we were talking about with the guy a minute ago amazing how important it is that feeling is there to house and everything man so what in the world plugged you into all this ramsey stuff eight years ago tell us tell us your story so um you know our work we were in grand junction colorado but we work everywhere from breckenridge over to telluride so there's multiple hours of driving to different projects job sites so my

father-in-law um he kind of got me into the ramsey show you know the the podcast um and uh in 2014 when we started this um i actually hosted financial peace and i've taught nine lessons well thank you and i've had 172 people come through. Wow. Oh, my gosh. They have paid off $450,000. So they are the real heroes. I love it. Yeah, amazing. That's very good. Very good.

A super coordinator. Wow, thank you. You're welcome. And I co-host with my father-in-law. Yes, thanks, Dad. He was definitely one of our big supporters. They were. They paid off their house a couple of years ago yeah that's incredible well having the goal of paying off your house like that's the big one right i mean obviously getting completely consumer debt free

is like huge yeah and then when you go to move to the mortgage so what caused you guys to want to do that was it you know what was the thing that was like let's work on the house let's do it we have we have eight years ahead of us, but it's going to be worth it. I think my mom and dad paid off theirs and they were in their late 50s and we just kind of looked at that and we thought, you know,

if they can do it, then we can do it. And Lee was a driving force. He had the vision. Yes. And I was sort of, I think the discipline is the big thing though. Once you get past that first hissy fit of not getting what you want you're like wow what was hard about it because

I mean eight years is a long time you guys and we say that you don't have to go like gazelle intense when you're paying off the home but you're because you're doing retirement and kids call I mean you know there's other stuff happening yeah I think I think once you pass that first hissy fit you're like okay I can say no to myself and it'll be okay um and then by the time you get a couple years down the road you just don't even care like that stuff that was so important to you is now no it's not important now you can do anything you want i mean now you got 130 000 income not a payment in the world that's a great perspective though of the things that you think are important and you're like oh i need to have this i want to have this and suddenly when you deny yourself of it for so long you're like oh wow we are okay like we we can really survive

without this stuff yeah discipline equals freedom and the farther you get down the easier that is to apply to yourself and to your marriage and to your home and to your children and you know it's it works that's amazing it works incredible there was some there was some rough years there you know a lot, a lot of overtime. Some extra work in there. Yeah, overnight, working too late, waking up early. So I don't think that's a Colorado accent. How long have you been in the States?

So I've been in the States since 2005, so about 18 years, I guess, 17 years. From England, south of London. Oh, okay. England south of London oh okay just south of London I came over here to teach skiing in Utah and worked out to Colorado and we met actually at the ski resort in Utah and this is how it ends this is how the end of the story

for the ski bum thing sort of looks like at the end of the story they did that dream got crushed he's got four kids and four houses I had to give up the ski bum I couldn't afford it we like at the end of the story. They did. That dream got crushed. He's got four kids and four houses. I had to give up the ski bummer. I couldn't afford it.

We call Lee the dream killer. People come into these classes and he's like, this is week two. The dream crushing begins. His ski dream was crushed. It was crushed with reality. Crush the dreams in week two. I like that. That's good.

That's funny. Well done well done you guys very well done we're so proud of you okay when they do come into class other than crushing their dream what do you tell them the key to getting out of debt is um i just talk about um you know with the budget um kind of i really like your buyer beware session you know don't go for the bling don't go for the fancy the fancy item

you know whenever you research long enough it turns out it's really not that good like a Black Friday deal somewhere it really just isn't worth it

and obviously don't take on any more debt and just for everything you can work extra and get rid of that debt because it's great to be free. Well, congratulations, you guys. We're very, very proud of you. And I know your father-in-law is proud of you.

He is. It's good stuff. And thank you for leading so many other people through the process. That's so powerful. It's a powerful reinforcement for you while you're doing it but it's uh has the uh the side benefit of all those people got help too so it's pretty pretty incredible well done well done sir we've got a copy of baby steps millionaires for you because that's definitely the next chapter in your story what's this house worth it's about 500 000 yeah

you're getting there huh all right good good good i, good, good. I love it. And a copy of Total Money Makeover. You'll be able to give that away to someone deserving in one of your classes and a subscription to membership for one year of Financial Peace University. Awesome. And again, you may want to give that away since you're coordinating them all the way. That's fine. We'll give you some stuff to give away. I like doing that.

Great. And you brought the new babe with you. And who is this? This is Josephine, and we have three older children. Ah, okay. And how old is Josephine? She's seven months. Ah, very perfect.

Very perfect. I love it. Good job, you guys. She's precious. Fun, fun, fun. All right. Lee and Linda and Josephine, Grand Junction, Colorado, $215,000 paid off in eight years, making $80,000, then $40,000, then $130,000 paid off in eight years, make an 80, then 40, then 130.

House and everything! They're weirdos! Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. Thank God we're debt-free! Yeah! Yeah!

Woo! Man. Amazing. We live in a culture where people can't stick with something eight minutes. And those people stuck with this eight years. Those are heroes right there. That's pretty studly. Pretty impressive.

Very, very well done uh one of the uh one of the attributes of the successful people who can stick with this stick with something even when it's hard you just keep pushing through tension span of a gnat out there man it's unbelievable stick with it stick with it don't quit don't quit it's worth it live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else. Our scripture of the day, Colossians 3, 12. Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness, and patience. Rick Warren said, humility isn't denying your strengths. It's being honest about your weaknesses.

Susie's with us in Minneapolis. Hi, Susie. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi. Hi, what's up? Okay, this is, without going too much in my past, I married when I was 30 years old and didn't really know that finances were such a huge deal. I was always brought up watching my dad and my brothers and everybody provide very beautifully.

And I married a man that I should have looked into his past, but found out, you know, like he was in our marriage, he had a gambling problem. And I went through 15 years of trying to fix all the stuff he was doing deceitful under my back. And in the meantime, lost the house and bankruptcy and foreclosure and everything stripped from underneath me. And So I've been divorced 10 years, and in the meantime, I was a stay-at-home mom, and when I found all this stuff out, I started a cleaning business, and I got myself out of this whole mess, and I bought a townhouse,

and I sold that recently. It was pretty much paid for and put it into a house and a lot of that. It's all paid for. My car is paid for. I have zero, zero debt. I'm 55 now. In 10 years, I haven't really dated. I've never found a real godly man or somebody I'm interested in. Right here, I find a man, but I don't get my heart, don't want to get my heart involved, but it kind of is. I've went on about seven dates with him, but in the meantime, I'm kind of hearing some things that I'm not loving with finances. I can't get the car payment.

He's living in a little townhouse and I had to be honest and say you know tell my past and say you know I'm at an age that retirement's going to be coming soon and I just can't get myself into a situation like I had been in again so is he smart I mean he's 55 too he's got he just he's just bought a townhouse worth $250. He's got a 30-year mortgage on it, which would mean he's not. I don't think any of that matters. It doesn't? No. You already know that you don't agree with what he's doing. The details don't matter.

What he's doing is scaring you. Yeah. That's what I think I heard. Did I hear that oh you yeah it's like we don't think he's got a gambling problem but we think he's just kind of normal have you have you mentioned it to him suzy like that yeah yeah totally and the thing is that i don't want to look like i'm some money hungry woman i just want a stable situation to be in. If you say that out loud, then that explains it.

What? I don't want to look like some money-hungry woman, but I went through all this hell for a decade and a half before, and so I'm kind of wounded. And in that wound, it makes me a little bit scared when I look over and see any kind of debt. Makes me scared, and it's okay to say that. That doesn't mean you're weird. It actually just means you know who you are. Okay, good. And if you're not attractive to him

based on you having an authentic, open conversation about what has happened to you in your past and the views and the values that that has given you to go forward then you didn't find your guy great am i wrong he's been very open he's been very i didn't say he was a liar and also suzy though and tell me this i don't know i'm just thinking out loud for you know we have a small portion of the u.s. population that follows the Ramsey plan, right? So majority of people out there don't. So I would be curious. It's huge, Rachel.

If you would say to him, like, hey, this is the plan that I do. I don't believe in debt. Like, here are the things that I've done to not just protect myself, but a way to live with money. And you may find, Susie, possibly that he's like, oh, I've never thought. I thought you always had to have a car payment. And not that you're going in to rescue him, but he may have never even thought of a different way of living because nothing that you're saying is outrageous. A lot of people do 30-year mortgages.

A lot of people have car loans. And again, it's not... You might be his wake-up call. I don't want you to be his savior, but you might be his wake-up call i don't want you to be a savior i don't want you to like go in and like yes then not i don't want that mentality at all for you suzy but just through conversation if he's a man of character and a man that's like okay i understand common sense i totally get suzy why you're coming at it like this that makes complete sense and i've never thought about never having a car payment well sure if I got 240,000 that you

said he put down on a townhome he's probably got money in the bank he could write off the car you know pay off the car today it's like he may just not even think through does that make sense like he may not even think about this way I think you misunderstood me the house the house he bought was 200 the townhouse he bought was 250,000 and he's got a 30-year mortgage on it. Oh, I'm sorry. But we don't know how much money he has in the bank. No, I don't, but I don't think a lot. I don't either.

But you and I are both guessing. I'm trying to save Susie's relationship because I'm excited that you went on seven dates with him. I want it to work for you, Susie. I'm not trying to run him off. I'm just saying, I think, me too, I think you don't know enough because you've been afraid of how you're going to be perceived when you be you. I want you to be real comfortable with being you because I've talked to you for just a few minutes, and I really like you.

Oh, thank you. And I have talked to him about the last talk we had. I told him the whole story. I go, I think you need to hear my whole story, and this is why I have to ask you. Yeah. I went through bankruptcy when I was 28. Rachel was a baby. I didn't know if I was going to be able to feed her.

It scarred me for life. I don't borrow money. And if you don't like that about me, I'm okay with that. I'm still going to be me. But you think, like, I just don't want to be... You're not. Spend seven dates, Susie. If it was your first date and you're asking for his tax returns

and 401k status, like, that's weird. That would be weird. That's weird. You're seven dates in. And you guys are adults. You're not 18. And he was good with it. He was fine telling me all of it. I'm just saying nothing that he's doing is completely absurd.

Do you know what I'm saying? Like he's living a quote unquote, very normal way of living, but that may not be up to your standards, Susie. If he doesn't want to change, then that is, that would be, that could be an issue. You know, 18 conversations from now, not the next one, if he's saying, I'm going to stay in debt, and I think this is okay,

I understand that you don't want to do that because of where you came from, then you've got to decide. But today, you don't have to make that decision. You just started the conversation. You're okay. You're okay. You're not out of line and by the way rachel's saying he's not either at this stage but now you do need to get lined up before you put

a ring on it right well yeah i just i always just envision myself at this stage to find somebody that was established i'm like he is established he's not doing drugs he's not gambling he doesn't beat his children he is established he's fine well i mean seriously his biggest sin is he's got a car payment this guy's a winner i mean really think about it dave ramsey just said that well i mean you know yeah but that doesn't because we can get rid of the car payment we can't get rid of a lack of character okay that's it that's that's the line well that i know that's huge he has a decent good godly man you said earlier i'm going with that yeah yeah and i'm with rachel but i i don't think this is going to be one conversation

i think it's a gradual thing you just keep talking about this is who i am and you're not ready to throw down an ultimatum today get rid of the car payment or i'm gone we're not doing that today it's it's not but at some point you guys do need to get aligned yes before you start making it permanent but it's it's okay seven more dates hello you know let's just keep the door open keep talking keep walking and if at some point he bows up, then you'll have to decide at that point. Are you willing to engage? You probably aren't based on hearing you. But I don't think this guy's going to bow up. I don't hear anything in here that is.

I may be wrong. I'd love to hear back how this love story ends. I know, Susie. Update us. We're not very good at matchmaking around here, so if we actually score on one, it'd be nice to hear about. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.