The Ramsey Show - App - Stop Saying "Why Me?" and Live a Life of Significance (Hour 2)

Episode Date: August 1, 2018

The show about you

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is the Dave Ramsey Show. It's where America hangs out to have a conversation about your life and your money. Sitting in for Dave Ramsey this hour, I am Ken Coleman. I'm the host of the Ken Coleman Show on SiriusXM that leads into the Dave Ramsey Show daily. Thrilled to be joined in studio by best-selling author of Love Your Life, Not Theirs, Rachel Cruz. And coming up later in this hour, another best-selling author, John O'Leary. He's the

author of a book called On Fire. He's been a guest on the show before, a big friend to Ramsey Solutions. So it is a jam-packed hour. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225.

Before we take your calls. It's always fun when my work sister, that's why you're like my work sister, Rachel Cruz joins us. Always good to see you. Thanks, Ken. I'm glad you're hosting. Well, thank you. Glad to be a part of this. Yeah. Are you having a good summer? Yeah, it's been a great summer. We've kind of laid low. I feel like most

people do their summer trips, right? They all have their summer vacation. We really didn't have one this summer. So we've been home, just celebrated our Caroline's first... Sweet Caroline's one-year birthday. Sweet Caroline's first birthday. I know. Isn't that the best?

It's crazy that it's been a year. How quickly did she tear into the cake? Not at all, actually. She just... Amelia, our oldest, was way into her first birthday cake. And Caroline kind of just hung out and just kind of took her time. Yeah, it was not like an eventful thing. She didn't cry, though.

You know, some kids just scream. But yeah. I've not seen Caroline cry. She's a very happy baby. She's a very happy baby. And she's just huge, Ken, too. I just had to buy 18 to 24-month clothes. She's like 99 percentile in weight and height.

And no, which I love. I always wanted just like a chunky baby. That's what I got. Well, there you go. So it's so fun. Yeah. And I'll tell you, first birthday parties, kids' birthday parties can get out of control. How much people spend on average.

Oh, okay. On kids' birthday parties. You know what? I was going to transition, but this is important. We got a lot of people listening here. This is a budget issue. Yeah. What do you and Winston do?

What kind of a percentage? Is there a percentage play? How much do you plan the one-year-old birthday party and say, all right, we're not going to go crazy here? We gave a dollar amount. So we're like, okay, this feels about right. And it fits in our other monthly budget, right? But we, I just cannot, probably because i wrote a book called love your life

month there's all about comparisons yes but only i'm not going to give into this idea that you have to have the best of the best of the best like a she's not going to remember and i feel like kids birthday parties that young it's more for the parents exactly for the kid like caroline doesn't really know i mean yeah she had no idea i will tell you this i I was at a party for somebody, our friends, and the cake was a big deal. Okay, we all know that the big moment of a one-year-old birthday party is all the adults standing around watching the kid eat the cake with no limits. That's right. All the other time we try to feed it to them so they don't make a mess. It's the one time where we say, just go nuts, and it becomes the spectacle.

It is the moment. It's only secondary to singing happy birthday. Yes, absolutely. Okay, well, this particular cake was done by a really nice baker. It was a big deal. Yeah. And to your point, I didn't even register at the moment, but I thought, that's a pretty nice cake for a one-year-old who honestly could care less.

They just want sugar. You could go to the grocery store and get a $6 cake. 100% and be totally fine. But what happens is we want to get the nicest looking cake that's super expensive because while we can justify it, it's the one-year-old birthday party. That's right.

And the decorations and the invites. I mean, it's just this big spectacle. And again, if you have the money to be able to do these things, that's where you choose to spend your money. That's a value judgment for you to say, hey, you know what? We're going to put money and cash towards this event. And that's totally fine. But we're just not like that. We think I got like 10 balloons and I got a whole birthday cake for and ordered some pizza and we're good to go. Yeah. I'm shocked that you ordered pizza.

That's not something I expected to hear. You eat more pizza. I love my pizza, America, if you're unaware. I love pizza. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the number. Let's go to William

who's on the line in Dallas. William, how can we help? Hello, William. All right. William's not there. Let's go to Ryan, who's on the line in Los Angeles. Ryan, how can we help? Yes, sir. Hey, how are you doing today? We're doing well.

So, I'm new to the program. Probably about two weeks in, and I am around $120,000 in debt with not a house payment. My monthly income or my yearly income varies from anywhere from $60,000 to $120,000 based on per diem and overtime. Ryan, what do you do? I'm a construction manager for the railroad.

And what's the $ in debt? Most of it is credit card. I got into a settlement agency who took care of, was trying to take care of $40,000 in credit debt, and then an additional $8,000 is on the side to other credit cards. The other remaining is student loans and others. Okay. And are you married? No. No. Single? Any kids? No kids. Okay. Well, the good news in this situation is that you're not going to have a lot of expenses as a single guy. I mean, obviously, LA, your standard of living is, the cost of that's a little bit higher than other places in America. But overall, the fact that you swing between $60,000 and $100,000 for a single guy, you're making a great income, but you

do have a lot of debt. So since you're newer, you said about two weeks listening to the program, what we teach when we teach people to get out of debt is to do the debt snowball. And what that is, is you list out all of your debts. So take out a sheet of paper and write out every single debt you have, except for your mortgage, everything else, your credit cards, student loans, everything, and list it smallest to largest regardless of the interest rate. Pay minimum payments on all the debt

and you're going to pay off the smallest debt first. And what you're going to... Yeah, I've made the list. You know, things are good. My biggest thing is the settlement agency. They're now delinquent on four cards that they have for about five months. Okay. Well, then you need to focus your energy on staying current with everything else

and getting those back up to current. And so those five, look at that and attack that first because you've got to get above water to be able to pay that off. And so I would take also be budgeting because a lot of people that are in debt, over 50% of people are not even on a written plan. And so get every dollar, budget your money and cut everything you can and put everything towards the debt. And so a lot of this is just about being intentional. So staying with the debt snowball, budgeting, getting current on all of your bills, and then starting to pay everything, minimum payments and tagging the smallest one first. All right. Thank you for the call, Ryan. You can do this. And Ryan, I'm going to have Kelly give you Dave's book, Total Money Makeover.

You've been listening to the program for two weeks and this book will really really encourage you and help you follow the plan. The plan works and you can do this. You'll be out of it before you even think that you can. We're going to go to a question real quick from Aaron on Twitter. How do you feel about budget plans for utilities? Maybe we're in the negative part of the year, positive other parts of the year

we just think it'll help us clean up our mess. How do you feel about that? Budgeting utilities. Yeah, you absolutely have to budget your utilities. I think you're trying to figure out a solid number because it would change month to month. Well, yeah, you're going to know, obviously, things are going to be different summer and winter. You've got to project, and sometimes there are guesstimates. And as the month goes on, if you get a bill, adjust and keep going. But, yeah, absolutely continue to budget for that.

Do it because you can make those adjustments month by month. All right, coming up, more of your questions. Rachel Cruz joining me here on the Dave Ramsey Show. Don't move. More around the corner. Let me tell you a story about two families that are very much alike in a lot of ways. Both families have two working parents and a couple of young kids. Each has debt and has struggled to make ends meet. But they're starting to make headway with their budgets

and smarter decisions with money. They have dreams and plans, and the only real difference is that one family has the right amount of term life insurance and the other doesn't. Big difference. If one of the parents die, and that does happen, their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage, utilities, food, and that does happen, their well-being would be destroyed. Paying for the mortgage,

utilities, food, and other bills would be impossible, let alone saving for education or retirement. That's why every day I talk relentlessly about getting term life insurance. Just go to ZanderInsurance.com or call 800-356-4282 and see how inexpensive it really is. Be the family that takes those deliberate steps to be different and responsible. It really does make you the hero of your story, and it puts you on course for better things ahead. Welcome back to America. You're listening to The Dave Ramsey Show.

I'm Kid Coleman sitting in for Dave this hour. I'm joined this segment with Rachel Cruz. She is the best-selling author of Love Your Life, Not Theirs. And then coming up, we've got two segments with John O'Leary, the best-selling author of On Fire. So a fantastic hour. It is your Show America, 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Let's go to William, who's online in Dallas. William, how can we help? Hey, Mr. Coleman, how are you? I'm fantastic. How are you? Thank you for taking the call. Sure. How can we help today?

I was just calling. I have a quick question for you. Actually, my family and I are facing a foreclosure here in about a month. So I was just wanting to get your input and advice on that, how to go about that, whether I should sell the house and take the equity, or should I go ahead and sell all of the things we have, our cars, our furniture? Okay, well, give us a rundown of your numbers. So talk to us. What's your take-home pay per month, William? So per month, I'd say $70,000 per year.

Per year, okay. Yes, ma'am. And we owe $60,000 on the home. We're backed up $10,000 in payments for almost a year. How much is the home worth? The home worth is minimum $155,000. Okay. So if we sell it at minimum,

I'll come out with an equity about maybe roughly $80,000. Okay. And what's the mortgage per month? The mortgage is $830,000. It's $830,000. Mm-hmm. Okay.

Gosh. What other debt do you have? That's my major debt that we only have right now. The only thing that I do have on my credit report is possibly a total of $3,000, which is basically nothing. That's something that I can obviously pay off um from my side my wife as well has some debts there about maybe i want to say around maybe five thousand okay so let me ask i just i just started listening to your show uh the uh the total money makeover book was given to me by my father. So I just started reading that a couple of days ago.

I am now on Chapter 6, where it says save $1,000 fast and walk before you run. So that's where I'm at right now. Well, William, let me ask you a question. Rachel's going to weigh in here, but I just want to ask a question for both of us. I'm not understanding why you can't pay an $800 mortgage on a $70,000 a year job. I'm missing something. It doesn't sound like you have a whole lot of other debt. So what are you spending your money on?

About $5,000 extra a month. Right. So that's roughly about how much we make together. So right now I'm trying to start up my business, a dog training business. So it's kind of averaging about that right now. So give or take. The thing is that, you know, our relationship status isn't kind of there eventually because we have financial problems or stuff that I've done in the

past that, you know, conflicting with me paying the debt. I keep on saying to myself, well, maybe if I take them there or if I buy on this, the relationship will get better. So basically using money for stupidity instead of what I actually really need to take care of. Yep. That's your problem right there. Okay. Because financially you should be able to afford this house. This is not, you're not underwater and it's all the other actions you're doing with the extra five grand a month that is sinking you, totally sinking you. And so William, what I would suggest for sure is to get on a budget and have a discussion with your wife because I've heard a few things in your comments. You said her debt and my debt. And so you guys getting on the same page and having this meeting

together and saying, okay, we're going to lay everything out as a married couple. And we're going to make a decision going forward that we're going to do this together. Because what you're feeling is this tension and that you're spending money because you feel like you want to please her. And a little bit of that dysfunction is in there. And so you need to start over is what it feels like emotionally, if you will, with your wife and you guys sit down together and say, okay, here's our income, here's our expenses. And the only thing we're going to spend on is what we need, what we need. And what we need is food. We need shelters. We've got to put some money back because you don't need to go into foreclosure

right now, William. I mean, if you can get back up in the next couple months and push that off, you can afford this home, not with the current lifestyle you're in, but you can afford this home. And we need clothing and we need transportation. And that's it. And that's going to be our life until we can save this house. And if you guys get in a bind, though, in the next two months, sadly, you're up to the wire because you said you could possibly file or go into foreclosure in the next month.

So you may not have a lot of time. If you can't save the situation in a month, then you do need to sell and get out because you're going to have equity. There's no reason to go into foreclosure in the next month. So you may not have a lot of time. And if you can't be, if you can't save the situation in a month, then you do need to sell and get out because you're going to have equity. There's no reason to go into foreclosure. So sell it and get out of it. But man, I would suggest tonight, you guys today in the next hour, sit down and get on the same page and say, okay, we have got to focus on what is important here. And it's your needs right now. And, and you guys getting on the same page. If you hang on the line, William Kelly will pick up cause you guys need to go through financial peace university,

a class and get on the same page together because you're running in two different lanes. You don't know what's going on. You don't know where your money's going. And to really buckle down and focus. I'm so thankful that not only are you reading total money makeover, but you're listening to the show because you need some direction and some plans. And so my advice, again, for right now is that tonight you guys need to sit down and do your first budget together and download every dollar.

And you're going to be able to see line by line, okay, here's what we spent in the past when you look back. And then here's what we're going to spend in the future. And we want to try to save this house. Because mathematically you can. Your actions would say otherwise. But if you can get that under control, your behavior under control, there's a good chance you guys are going to be okay. William, some tough love here. The two most important words Rachel Cruz just shared with you were today and do. You're in Chapter 6 of Dave's book, Total Money Makeover, and knowledge is absolutely worthless if you don't do something with it.

It is time for you to make some changes. It's that simple. Today. Really great advice, Rachel Cruz. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225 is the number to call in. Let's go to Emily who's on the line in Denver. Emily, how can we help?

I have a question for you about a raise. I requested a raise after working for the company I've been working for for 10 years, and they said no, but that we could revisit it in six months. And I was surprised to get that answer because I'm responsible for about 90% of the company's revenue. I'm in the sales side of interior design. And so I'm wanting to know how to determine next steps. I can't make the kind of income I'm making there currently at another place, at least in my area, because there aren't other jobs available doing the same type of thing that I do. Well, I would start with, did you get some clarity on when we revisit in six months,

what are we actually having a discussion about? Or was it as simple as, hey, I'm killing it. I think I'm due a raise. What do you think? And they said, not right now. Let's revisit in six months. How much extenuating details were discussed? Sure.

We didn't set any kind of specific date, but they did say six months. The thing they'd like to see improvement in is my change orders. So I'm responsible for about $1.8 million in sales, but I last year had about $25,000 in change orders that were like customer accommodation, that kind of thing, throughout the course of a residential remodel. Okay. All right. So they gave you something.

That's a little less than 1%. Right. Yeah. That's still an area, hey, go for it. Address that. You know, take the oxygen out of, well, I'd like to see you improve this. Sounds like that's what they threw at you. My question is, in sales, what is your compensation structure?

I'm assuming you have a small base and large commission, or am I wrong? No, it's all commission. Oh, you're 100% commission? 100% commission. Okay. All right. Now, okay. Rachel, weigh in here, because I feel like I've got to channel Dave.

Go. If you're 100% commission, you don't need to ask for a raise. You go sell more. Well, and I've gotten myself a raise every single year. Like I've sold more each year. And I wasn't sure if it was appropriate to even ask for a raise. So that's helpful to hear. It's not appropriate. You shouldn't have asked. Okay. And I'm not getting on you. I'm just saying the math is set up for you. You determine your own race.

They've put no lid on you. That is a phenomenal opportunity and situation. That's what Dave says he wishes he could put the receptionist on. 100% commission. He says it all the time. Hey, you don't need a race. Go do it. Wow.

The future looks really bright for you, Emily. But you must be doing good, Emily. Hopefully, 90% of sales come through you. There you go. Go, girl. Go, girl. Just go make some more money. All right, Rachel Cruz, thanks for being with us.

Yeah, thanks for having me. Coming up, best-selling author John O'Leary joins us. Don't move. More of The Dave Ramsey Show coming right up. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major healthcare costs.

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This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman sitting in for Dave Ramsey this hour. Thrilled to have you with us, America. And we are very excited to have one of our dear friends of Ramsey Solutions in the studio with me for the next half hour. He is John O'Leary. He's been a guest on the show before with Dave. Spoke to our team this morning. He's spoken to our team multiple times. His book that released, what was it, two years ago now? Two years ago in March.

Two years ago in March. On Fire, The Seven Choices to Ignite to ignite a radically inspired life has taken off. Because it's one of the most compelling stories that you will ever read. And so for those of you who know John O'Leary, you can sit back and be inspired. For those of you who don't, watch out. Because if you're going through a tough time, this is the guy you need to hear. And if you know somebody that's going through a tough time or has been through a tragic moment, get them near the radio. Or if you can't, get the podcast of today's show because John O'Leary has got a voice because he has an amazing story.

But first, John, good to have you, sir. Ken Coleman, it is an honor, man. Thank you. But first, John, good to have you, sir. Ken Coleman, it is an honor, man. Thank you. Well, I'm so excited to have you. I remember when I first met you and heard about your story and then had the opportunity to have you on our Entree Leadership Program. And we talked for a long time, longer than we'll have today. But people were so compelled by just the shocking nature of this innocent boy playing around like boys do and then boom literally change your life forever take folks to that moment where your life changed forever yeah absolutely so august uh 1987 i am a

nine-year-old little child i'd seen boys in my neighborhood playing with fire and gasoline. Ken and I assumed if these guys can do that, so can I. So on a Saturday morning, I walked into my mom and dad's garage, bent over a can of gasoline. The plan was to pour a tiny bit of gasoline on top of this burning piece of paper. And before the liquid comes out, this massive explosion, the can split in two. The explosion launched me, Ken, 20 feet against the far side of the garage, cover being gasoline. I'm on fire.

Everything around me is ablaze. I have no idea which way is up, no idea what to do next. And so as a normal little reaction for a child, I ran. I ran on fire through the flames back into my mom and dad's house and eventually found myself on their front foyer floor begging for help, praying for a hero. God, I'll take anybody. And I see my brother Jim. He was 17.

I was nine. He'd never done anything nice for me before that day. So I remember thinking, oh, God, anybody else, not this guy. And yet this was his day man the book is full of unlikely heroes and uh the first one shows up in the form of my brother jim he picked up a rug he beat down those flames it took him two minutes he burned himself in the process and he saved my life he saved your life but there was some very very test, dicey moments over the weeks and months ahead. I want you to just briefly give people an idea of the medical struggle, how badly you were burned, and what your new reality was in a blink of an eye.

Yeah, so 100% burn, 87% third degree. The way they do the math today on burns is they take the percentage of the body burned. They add age. You've got mortality so in 2018 i have 109 likelihood of dying in 1987 there's just no earthly chance and so this is the prognosis this is our new reality ken and yet we were a faithful family my mom and dad walked in my mother took my hand and I said, mama, am I going to die? And her response was awesome. She looks at me and she says, baby, do you want to, which is so counter-cultural in some regards, because I'm, I'm hoping she'll pat me on the back and say, baby, you're fine.

We'll get you a milkshake this afternoon. Everything's okay, babe. And instead she hit me with truth. And this is what you talk about on your show. It's why it works. It's to remind people they got to take responsibility for their own life, their own next step forward in the journey, even if it's really bad, even if it's really hard. And I said to my mom, Mama, I do not want to die. I want to live.

And her response was good. Then look at me, babe. You take the hand of God. You walk the journey with him and you fight like you have never fought before. She said, your dad and I will be with you. you gotta fight you gotta fight you gotta want this and we fought we wanted it it took five months it took a couple dozen skin grafts it took amputations it took years of therapy in some regards as you know because you're my buddy the fight continues but it is uh it is so worthwhile yeah and i want people to hear also john that you did tell

your mom that day yeah i do want to live but you had it wasn't just this amazing rocky little john o'leary's most inspiring he's a fighter every day there were days where you fought your caregivers your nurse roy your parents you fought everybody because it just felt like too much i want people to understand that even if they're deciding today that they want to live, that they're still going to go through some tough times. Speak to that. Well, it's part of my reality even today, 32 years into recovery, because I'm still fighting and I'm still looking uphill sometimes.

My favorite question as a child, Ken, was why me? I saw other boys play with fire and gasoline. Why did I get burned? My hands were healing and they had to amputate my fingers. Why me? I'm in a hospital bed. My friends are all playing. Why me?

Everybody's at Easter Sunday having fun. I'm in a hospital bed. Why me? It's all, and I remember asking that day after day after day. Months into this recovery, I asked my dad one night, why me? Again, and I remember distinctly, it's not in the book, so you guys are getting some privilege information right here. My dad looked back at me finally with love and said, John, darn it. Why not you?

He just was done with the conversation. Why not you? This terrible, tragic thing had happened. You can't change that. But we get to decide what we're going to do about it going forward. You survive, John. Your survival is a miracle. Start acting like it.

And that is a father lovingly setting his boy straight in a very masculine but also in a very loving, tender way. He's John O'Leary, the best-selling author of On Fire, The Seven Choices to Ignite a Radically Inspired Life. I'm Ken Coleman sitting in for Dave Ramsey. You're listening to The Dave Ramsey Show. John, what did you begin to do as a young boy in that hospital? You're going through all that therapy, all the surgeries, everything. What did you begin to look forward to, even as a nine-year-old? Two things.

Well, three now, since you brought it up. Number one, going home. To leave a difficult place and to return to a place of love. That's what I really longed for. Secondly, when you're tied down as a little boy and you can't move your arms or your legs and you can't be touched. And this one's raw. I'm stumbling over words right now.

I just wanted to be touched by my mom and my dad i just wanted that cuddle i wanted to feel them i wanted to lay in their bed so not only was it going home but it was specifically going home and hanging out in bed with mom and dad in their big bed like that was the big dream and then thirdly and uh i think you know my story well enough to know this is coming i had a friend who told me that if I ever got out of the hospital, he promised me that they would have a day at the ballpark in my honor. And this gentleman said, John, when you get out of here, we are going to celebrate you at Bush Stadium. We'll call it John O'Leary Day at the ballpark.

And so those three things coming together in some regards were enough to allow a little boy that seemingly had little chance to believe and to hope and to fight and to pray to move forward towards tomorrow. If you've not read the book, I'm not giving too much away to say that that friend was the legendary voice of the St. Louis Cardinals in Major League Baseball, Jack Buck. He also was on broadcast television for years, one of the major voices of baseball really in the 80s the 70s 80s and uh a guy that comes to you he hears your story and he comes to encourage you and give up his time and he ends up being somebody as you read in the book who was an unbelievable friend to you and remains a friend i don't think you always need to be

physically with someone to feel their presence still. And my friend Jack Buck has been gone for 17 years, and he remains a very active part of my life. The quick story of this is I'm in a hospital bed on day two, tied down, swollen to such a degree that I can't see, in physical pain, can't communicate because there's a trach, but I'm aware of everything. And I hear footsteps walk in my room. A chair comes across the floor. And then that big, booming Hall of Fame radio voice, radio still matters, that radio voice of Jack Buck says,

Kid, wake up. John O'Leary, Dave the Ballpark will make it all worthwhile. Keep fighting. And he kept coming into my life, even though the odds were long. He changed me, then he changes me still today. Yeah, it's a powerful story. It'll bring tears to your eyes. The book is on fire. The author is with us. He is John O'Leary coming up. He would go back to that day when he set himself on fire again. Can you believe that? Coming up,

he's going to tell us why. I'm Ken Pullman, sitting in for Dave Ramsey. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Okay, I need you to listen to this, because one normal routine that everyone does can cause total chaos in your life. Folks, I'm talking about the simple act of using Wi-Fi. When you're on Wi-Fi anywhere in public or at home, you're at risk of hackers easily seeing every site you visit and search you're doing online. It doesn't matter if you're doing it on your cell phone or your laptop. I'm not telling you this to scare you. I don't operate in fear. But I want you to be aware and take action. You need to download Hotspot Shield. Hotspot Shield helps keep your connection on your own Wi-Fi and any public Wi-Fi secure.

600 million people worldwide have downloaded Anchor Free's Hotspot Shield. Download it now. My listeners can save even more by going to HotspotShield.com slash Dave. That's HotspotShield.com slash Dave. You can be secure in seconds. Download Hotspot Shield today. Welcome back, America. You're joining the conversation here on The Dave Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman, sitting in for Dave Ramsey this hour. Thrilled to be joined in our last two segments by a good friend of mine. He's a good friend of Dave's. He's been on the show before. He is John O'Leary. He's the author of the best-selling book, On Fire, The Seven Choices to Ignite a Radically Inspired Life. If you're just joining us, and you want to hear the whole story, at least the way we've been able to do it so far in short segments, get the podcast because it's an amazing story. But as I left you, I teased the audience, John, with something that you write very early on in this book.

And it is a very confident statement, and I know it to be true. We've talked about it. But you basically say, if I could go back in time to that day as a nine-year-old when I accidentally set myself on fire and burned 100% of my body, forever changing my life, I would do it again because of what it has made me, the entire experience, and continues to make of you. And I think some people need to hear that. Because some people, John, listening right now, they feel like they're on fire. Whatever their situation is, that's what it feels like.

And they're in so much pain. When they hear that statement, they go, are you crazy? I'm just trying to live. Why in the world would I ever want to go back through this again? And I think it's important for them to hear why you say that. Well, it's important to recognize I did not say that in the emergency room on day one. Of course not. Or in the hospital room in month five, or in therapy two years in, or when I'm home

while everyone else is going to the high school prom. It took a long time to grow into the understanding of the gift that the tragedy was. And so I would just encourage those at home right now who are struggling, who are feeling like they are on fire and beat down, that this thing frequently takes time. It's definitely going to take faith, and it's going to take an awful lot of fight. What I recognize, though, looking back on my story, Ken, is the reason you and I are buddies and met in the first place is because of the fire. The reason I chose the college that I chose and ended up meeting a brunette with brown eyes who is stunningly beautiful inside and out named Elizabeth Grace, listening right now, my wife,

is because of the fire. The reason ultimately she was attracted to a guy that acted and looked different than every other guy was because of the fire. The reason I've grown in character and faith and endurance is directly because of the fire. And I think ultimately the reason I understand what matters is because of the fire. This stuff all took time. It took reflection and prayer, a little bit of wisdom creeping in there a bit. But the genesis of it was an explosion as a child. So I don't apologize for saying, yeah, do it again. I wouldn't want to.

I wouldn't want it to be easy. It's painful. It's hard. Still today it's hard. But it led me perfectly to where I am today it again. I wouldn't want to. I wouldn't want to be easy. It's painful. It's hard. Still today, it's hard. But it led me perfectly to where I am today. John, there's so many characters in the book, real-life people who walked alongside of you or walked through different seasons with you on this journey. And I just love Roy.

Because of the proximity that Roy was in at a really critical time. He's one of your nurses, became a lifelong friend, obviously an influencer, a tremendous impact on your life. And I'm just curious, what would you say to people about trying to find a Roy or looking for the Roys in their life? When they printed my book, the original copy had a picture of John O'Leary on the front of it, like a political commercial if you will and i bailed that idea immediately because the book is not about me and the story is ultimately not about me it's about roy if you will and all the roys within our story and all the roys within all of our stories and ultimately can are calling to be a

roy or a jack or a superior guardi guardian or parent to someone else. Roy, the backstory of Roy briefly is he's my CNA. That's a minimum wage nurse. And his job is to clean the bedpan, change the sheets, and get me back to bandage change. But he took his job seriously. He recognized the divinity, the sacredness of work. All work, man. It's sacred.

So he took it seriously. He understood he was part of somebody else's solution every morning he would unhook me from the bed carry me back in his big beautiful arms all the way back to the bandage change and on the walk back in he would say loud and clear into my right ear boy you are going to walk again you might as well get used to it. And then he'd add, come on, I'll walk with you. And he's saying this to a boy who's hooked up to all kinds of machinery and IVs and morphine drips and trikes and everything else and can bear no weight himself. But Roy is casting a vision for where I can go next. He carries me back, does the bandage change, takes me back to the bedroom, does it again the following day and the following day for five months.

I never thanked Roy. And more than that, I resented him because he inflicted pain, not only physically, but the emotional pain of me knowing he's a liar. I'll never walk again, man. I've seen my legs. It's one of those deals. And yet, months after he left me for the final time, this little boy was able for the first time to get himself out of that wheelchair, take a few awkward steps, then a few more strides, then feel himself away along the fence post, then start jogging forward, then start running forward, doctors and a whole lot of other folks, but Nurse Roy's vision. When everyone else, those experts in the room were coming in and whispering about the patient, they were whispering about how he was going to die.

If you really listen between the pauses, Nurse Roy was walking in and celebrating forget death. This little boy is going to walk. That is the kind of vision, vision candidly we need in the marketplace today enough talk about death we need life man we need visions of people saying forget that we're gonna walk and i'll walk with you yeah john o'leary the best-selling author of on fire joins me here on the dave ramsey show uh i think the reason i love roy so much john is because what you just said we all need need to be Roys, don't we? Don't we just need to stop looking at our position in life?

Here's Roy, a minimum wage nurse, who now has a massive role in your story as you speak to how many people a year? Almost 200,000 or so. Yeah, Roy's got a huge part of that. Talk to these. We all need to be Roys. Challenge us. Because we're walking around sometimes worried about our position and status, and we don't realize that we can be a Roy to somebody right now.

So I'm going to put a bow on the Roy story. Nurse Roy did not recognize that he was a Roy. And I think that's important to recognize the beauty, but also the challenge frequently of humility. You don't recognize the greatness that you have within yourself to impact someone else's life in a positive manner. Roy never recognized the ability he had to elevate someone else. He just did his job.

We lost touch. I spoke to the Alabama Power Company 26 times in 2011. And on the 26th time, they said to me, John, you have moved us profoundly this summer. We wanted to thank you. And I said, okay. He said, you had a nurse who impacted you profoundly. And I said, man, I had a lot of nurses. He said, you had one in particular, a large African-American man.

What was his name? And I said, Roy. He said, what would he say to you? So I said, boy, you're going to walk again. And the gentleman with that microphone in hand came cut me off and said that is not what he would say it sounded i bet more like this and then from the back of this large atrium and you follow alabama i heard this voice that i had not heard in 23 years or so boy you are walking again i am proud to walk with you they paid a a PI three-week salary to find

Nurse Roy. Dog the Bonnie Hunter would have had him in 24 minutes tops. They fly him down to Eufaula, his first flight in the history of his life. Get your hands around that. And he is reintroduced to the fact that not only he impacted this little boy's life, but this little boy is now traveling the world

celebrating his life. Yeah, so we are called to be a Roy. You may not recognize that your role as a grocery store checkout person is significant, but I'm telling you right now, it is. Because maybe the only joy someone's going to see all day long is in your eyes. Be that Roy. Elevate people. Challenge yourself to remind them that the best is yet to come, and you'll walk with

them. When little John O'Leary didn't have any belief or not much, old Roy injected some of his belief into you, and you borrowed a good bit of that. That's one of my favorite stories of all time. I'll bet you were a complete mess when you realized it was him, weren't you? I have goosebumps telling that story again. We went to supper afterwards, and he said to me,

do you know what surprises me most about your story? And I said, no. It's the final thing he shared that me, do you know what surprises me most about your story? And I said, no. And it's the final thing he shared that night, Ken. And he said, it is to learn, John, that after 26 years, my work mattered. And so we get to recognize together in the sanctity of that dinner, doing life together, that we mattered in one another's life. And I think that's important for all of us. We're not intended to do life on our own.

Wow. John O'Leary, thank you for stopping by. The I think that's important for all of us. We're not intended to do life on our own. Wow. John O'Leary, thank you for stopping by. The book is On Fire, The Seven Choices to Ignite a Radically Inspired Life. To learn more, go to johnolearyinspires.com. Big thanks to John. I want to thank our producer, James Childs, our associate producer, Kelly Daniel. And most of all, you, America, thank you so much for listening. This is The Dave Ramsey Show.

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