The Ramsey Show - App - Stop Saying You're The Exception To The Rule (Hour 3)

Episode Date: September 29, 2023

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, we help them do work they love, and create actual, not fake, actual amazing relationships. I am Jade Warshaw, your co-host joined by dr john deloney to my right we're taking your calls for the next hour we'll talk about your life your money your mental health you can give us a call 888-825-5225 and we will do our best to answer your questions and number one i'm always grateful that you guys even trust us with your life. Like you guys call in, you're willing to share your numbers.

You're willing to share your deepest, darkest secrets. We definitely do not take that lightly. So thank you so, so much. And another thing that we don't take lightly. Thank you for watching. Thank you for listening. One of the things that you guys do that's so incredible that we're so grateful for is you share the show.

And I'm like, can you just keep doing that? If you like the show, And I'm like, can you just keep doing that? If you like the show, click the little like button. If this has done something for you, subscribe. Or if you know someone that would benefit from the things that we're talking about in here every day, go ahead and share the episode with them, slide them the little paper airplanes so they can see it, send them a link, text it to them. That does so so much not only for us it does a lot for us because it's great for the algorithm but it does a lot for people because we exist here to help you guys and help people and that's our great privilege and honor so thank you for doing

that john i'm ready to go to these phone lines because we got allison in toledo ohio allison what's going on girl hi thank you for taking my call. We're doing good. How are you? I'm good. So my question is, I have a daughter that's going to be going to college next fall. The problem is she has been struggling with an eating disorder for five years. We've been through numerous therapists, dieticians, residential stays. She's stable but nowhere near recovery.

I don't want her to go to college, but her therapist thinks I need to just kind of let her go. And I can't make her recover. She doesn't want to do that herself. And I guess I'm just scared because I'm afraid she's going to go. And then she's, she's sorry. She's going to go and then she's just going to wither away. And I know I have a year away, but I'm just like terrified. And I just don't know how to deal with it.

Thank you for sharing that. Over the last two decades, I've sat with a number of moms in your very situation. Okay? So you're not alone in that. It's hard. And I always like to enter into these conversations, especially in this kind of format in a radio show, with as much truth as possible.

Is that cool? Yeah. Okay. You and I both know that disordered eating is one of the if not the most lethal mental health challenge right right it's not something to mess around with and we also know that when our kids are hurting we will do anything and sometimes what we do ends up that we build fences and in a weird way that can make challenges for the growth and safety and development and healing for some of these challenges right and so it becomes this weird

recursive i don't want to be a part of the problem but my therapist my therapist is saying i need to stop doing this but i feel like i have to do this and so here's what i would do um okay is there a risk of sending her away? 100%. Absolutely. No question about that. Anyone who tells you there's not, they're lying to you. Okay? Okay. And I have been a part of multiple teams at multiple

universities from a giant R1 research institution with 35 or 40,000 students at it to a small faith-based community and the other universities in between. That with a parent and with a student and with the right care team, what made up of a nutritionist and made up of mental health providers on campus and sometimes medical providers on campus, there ends up being an amazing team. And then you throw in residence

hall directors and the ability to make friends and get community. There is an opportunity. It sounds to me like you, A, have concerns about her health and well-being, which are all true. And you have a licensed mental health professional saying, in her professional opinion, this is the next best right move. That's number one. Number two, it also sounds like you need to do some work dealing with the opening of your hands and letting your daughter move to the next stage of her life, which is scary to do.

Is that fair? Yeah. Yeah, and I actually have been seeing a therapist for the past month. And I mean, she says that too. She does. Good. a therapist great month and i mean she says that too she does good so um it's hard when when a mental health professional tells me a parent um maybe you've got some stuff you need to work on and i'm like no it's they're the ones with and so follow follow the wisdom of the

professionals in front of you okay and i'm going to tell you to balance that with, go with your gut, moms especially, but moms and dads are pretty intuitive. But if I'm sitting my kid and I'm in your situation, okay? I have a seven-year-old little girl and I wouldn't wish it on her as you wouldn't wish it on anybody. But let's say I find myself in the same situation. What I would do is sit down with the college

that my daughter's going to go to. And we would sit down with the, there's going to be a care team, a student support and emergency team. It's going to go to. And we would sit down with the, there's going to be a care team, a student support and emergency team. It's going to be some group of people that have a 360 degree view of your daughter. Academically, residence hall experience, mental health provider, et cetera.

And we're going to create a plan and everybody's going to be a part of that plan. And a part of that plan will be the school will call you if they get really concerned about the health and safety of your daughter. Okay. Okay. Okay.

So do you think a smaller school would be a better choice then? I think there's going to be, I wouldn't say that because they may not have the resources of a larger school. So I don't, I don't know that I think it's going to be very specific to your individual situation and where your daughter feels like she is going to be safe and where she can have a good experience. And here's the deal. I'm not special. Guys like me, men and women like me all across

the country chair these teams. I chaired one of these teams at several different places. Okay. So if you can just imagine a knucklehead like me sitting down saying, okay, do we have the right therapist, the right medical provider? We've got the right people here and then the work on the other end is let the professionals do their job and mom you do the work on opening your hands up and letting your daughter who's now an adult slowly transition into adulthood okay which stinks i know did you want me just to say no keep her home don't ever let her grow up that'd have been so much easier no i just i've been trying to be so strong we're going to college visits and i'm being like really excited for her but like inside i'm a nervous wreck you can be both okay and hey i think it's fair to tell your

daughter i love you to the moon and back and there's nothing in the world other than maybe your dad that i love more than you and so i'm your mom it's gonna be hard on me oh you're divorced okay so no so in many ways she might have been your identity for a long time right yeah has she been your purpose and reason for being yeah she's been propping you up for a long time and it's gonna you have to tell her I'm gonna have to work to let you go it And so it's going to be hard for me, your mom, and it's not her job to make you feel better. That's not her job ever, ever, ever. That's your job to do that kind of work, right? Right. And so I would be honest with her, be honest with her. She's smart. She's going to college. She's smart and she loves her mom and also, um, trusted professionals in, in, in her world. There's going to be a whole team of them if you pick the right school.

I'm proud of you for going to counseling on your own too. It's a hard, hard, hard season you're going through. This is The Ramsey Show. If you have questions with your money, questions about your budget, questions about college choice, questions about mental health choices, you're feeling anxious about money, anxious about student loans coming back. If the national debt's got you feeling some type of way, if the debates have you feeling some type of way, man, give us a call. We want to talk about all of that. You'd be surprised at how all of these things filter into our choices that we

make with our life and our money. And if we're not aware of that on down the line, we'll look up and be like, oh my gosh, I've created a mess. So if any of those things are on your mind, give us a call. The number is 888-825-5225. We'll help sort it out with you. It would be our great pleasure. Let's go to Matt in Mesa, Arizona. What's going what's going on matt hi thanks for taking my call you bet hey um exactly what you were saying there um some of those things you know inflation and come on it's real right you're feeling it factor in yeah they factor in but my questions um specifically with, and I'll get to it, but where my wife and I are at is through Baby Step 4. So we're completing and contributing 15% to our retirement account. And then the next steps are obviously the 529, our college savings, and paying off the house.

We're not there salary-wise to start contributing to five and six yet. Maybe in a couple of years with a raise, we'll start doing that. But we have about a Bitcoin and it just saved up. So if you cash it out after taxes, it'd probably be worth 20K. That's my question for you relating to Bitcoin. What would you do with that Bitcoin in the situation that I'm in? Are you guys... How long have you had it? Since 2015.

Has it been so fun? Yeah, it's been a roller coaster. It seems like it's been more of a backyard slide. Yeah. Yeah. Like just directly from top to bottom i'm just glad you're ready to get out of it dude i would sell it before the day was over most definitely and um you know you're you're contributing the 15 to retirement like you should be um i'm not mad at you guys using that and kind of putting a chunk into the 529 if you wanted to do that, because that is important. How many kids do you have? We have a four-year-old and potentially,

you know, another one next year, which might be some of that savings if we cash it out, some of that for all the kids. Yeah, when it comes to the 529, we don't have as many hard and fast rules on the amount that you have to contribute and how often you should contribute and all those things because the fact of the matter is everybody's situation with their kids when it comes to their education is going to be different and you're at the stage where you really can't predict it at all like you know you don't know if they're going to grow up to want to do ivy league or if they're going to do the trades or if they're a musician and they just want to rock out you like you don't know what that's going to be. And so as the parent, it's really up to you to choose the best option. I

don't know that I would start with $20,000. That just feels like a lot. And once you're in it, you're kind of locked in. Now, obviously down the line, that money can convert into retirement money and it can go to different siblings. So that's a conversation between you and your wife. I do want you to be contributing something into that $529 also know that four five and six um if possible should be done simultaneously so i'm not mad at the idea of taking some of that money and putting it into the 529 to get it rolling and then taking the rest of it and throwing it towards the mortgage how much do you owe on your mortgage? 235.

235. You know, that's up to you. There's not a wrong answer on this. If it were me, if I woke up in your shoes, if I woke up in your shoes, I might reverse engineer it a little differently. I'd probably throw like a thousand into the 529 and be like, okay, every year I'm going to put X amount of dollars in and i'd probably put the bigger chunk toward the mortgage that's what i would do and maybe even have a contest with your wife and see if y'all could get down to where it was 199 999 bucks before christmas or something like that you just feel good right yeah oh yeah when you get to when you get below the zero zero oh, you start making those moves. And so that's probably what I would do.

What did you buy into Bitcoin? What was your initial buy-in? I bought half for $300. Okay. And then a whole one for $1,500. I already got my money back. Okay, you're good. Yeah, I love that you're just willing to sell it.

I think that's the right move as far as what percentages to put where I don't think there's a wrong answer but I think I don't think there's a wrong answer in my mind what feels a little bit more wise I hate to use the word wise what feels like there's less um unknown let me put it like that is you know you've got to pay your house off um you know you that's that's a given you know you want to have some money set aside for some further education of your child you don't know what that's gonna gonna be yet so it's not like we have to have 150 000 set aside for school you don't know that you know so there is some thought with that you might say hey we're gonna put 20 000 in we're gonna set it and forget it and let it grow. And what it is, it is. So it actually sparks, Matt, some bigger conversations about education.

And you and your wife sitting down and going, okay, what's our goal here? The $529,000 is great. Yeah, we want to add to it. But what are we saying we're going to contribute? Are we saying we're going to match them dollar for dollar, regardless of how they further their education? Is our plan that we're going to fund whatever that thing is 100%? Is our plan is, you know, so I think that's honestly the first conversation. And then whatever you guys come away from that conversation will lead you down if you're going to put most of it towards

a mortgage or put most of it towards a 529. And I'll say this too. I spent most of my career in higher ed and I've got a 13 year old who's just a few years out and I've got a seven year old. I am, I have not as a single doubt in my mind that what I know to be college and the university experience right now will be different for my seven yearold. Yeah. So that's where we're at. We're conflicted on what to do in that situation. So I think you're right. It makes more sense to, with any extra cash, pay down the house. And even having grandparents that would more than likely step in to help pay for some of that college for a grandkid. I wouldn't count on it. Yeah. Yeah. Not planning on that. But like you said, not necessarily wiser, but maybe the more for sure thing is to pay down

the mortgage. So. And again, start with that conversation with your wife, like set the expectation so you know what the goal is, because it's, you know, sometimes with this stuff, we just start throwing darts and it's like, hey, I know I'm supposed to do something like that. And I know I'm supposed to do something like that. And it's like, yeah, throw $1,000 in there, throw $500 in there. But what really motivates us and what really makes us feel awesome about what we're doing is when we know exactly what we're aiming towards and why. Then as you get closer, it's like, that's freaking awesome.

Like we're really doing something. So that's what I'd say, Matt. Feel good about it? Thank you. Yeah, I think the mindset has changed after having a kid and just kind of settling down a little bit where we want to have more peace with our finances and being, you know, kind of no kids or before that single. And I've never needed the Bitcoin, but I think that's it's hard to have the mindset of, well,

it's so volatile, it could go up 200200,000 and it could also go down. And so I don't really want to sell it, which is kind of why I'm calling it. But having peace with finances is probably more important for us. So I'll have that confirmation conversation with my wife and go from there. I think it's worth it. Look, you guys are out of debt, number one. So it's not like I'm like, sell this to get out of debt. What's your net worth, by the way? What else do you have invested? I'm just curious.

Good question. Beanie babies. We always say things like this, Bitcoin and single stocks and little things like that that you just are dabbling around in. You don't want that to be more than 5% of your big picture. And you certainly don't want to be putting money into those things currently until after baby step seven until after you're you know doing all the doing all the important things right then it's like when you have money to play if you have money to play um you might

do stuff like that but the way it sounded um you i feel like when you first called in you said hey we've got the money to do baby step four but we don't necessarily have it to do five and six. And so I think that right there was the dial that you turned. That's like, okay, then it's, it's time to sell this off. If you were like, Hey, we're just rolling in the dough. Should I just go ahead and sell this too? I'd probably be like, who cares? But because it does matter to you and it matters in your world, I definitely would sell it. I think you're making the right choice. I love these conversations, John. Yeah. And I never want people to forget, if you don't have a mortgage, you can go a long way to help cash flowing part of college too, when it comes around, right? Oh yeah. I mean, that's all that money freed up.

Just freed up money. The mortgage is the biggest piece of people's month to month income. And it's one thing when you go from renting to ownership and it's a whole one thing when you go from renting to ownership, and it's a whole other thing when you go from ownership to no payments. Like I literally own this free and clear. You can help cashflow a community college with no problem. Oh, that's what I'm talking about. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you,

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to take care of healthcare costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. What's going on, people? It is The Ramsey Show. I am Jade Warshaw, your host.

I got John Deloney on the ones and twos to the next side of me. Remember that when they used to say that? I do. On the ones and twos. That was old school. I don't even know what that means. I guess it just means that you're... I thought it was the turntables.

Yeah. The ones and twos though? Yeah. Okay. Clearly I've never worked a turntable. I have two turntables and a microphone. Where it's at? That's what I'm talking about.

All right. Yes. I got that, John. I got that. That was huge right there. Okay. I know about Beck. I know what's going on here.

We're going to go to Michaela in Honolulu, Hawaii. Michaela, what's going on? Hi. Yeah. So I'm just trying to see if I can figure out a plan to help me and my family get out of like living paycheck to paycheck. Yes, ma'am. You're living in one of the most expensive places on the planet.

Is it rough? Yes. Yeah, ma'am. You're living in one of the most expensive places on the planet. Is it rough? Yes. Yeah, it's rough. But there's no room to leave. I'm not leaving. This is my home. So I just have to figure out what to do next. Can you give us a little bit of a, can you give us a big picture of what's going on can you tell us what the debt is can you tell us what the income is what help you out yeah so my husband has about twenty thousand dollars in student loan debt um i'm at home with two kids so i can't really work um how old are the kids and then he um five months old and two and a half. Okay. Yeah. And then, um, he makes about like 50,000. Okay. Um, he just finished his degree.

Um, so like he's looking for more jobs and he got offered a management position at his job so that he doesn't leave. So there's potentially more money coming in. Um, but I mean, it's not going to be significant enough to really make a dent, if you know what I mean, at first. Yeah. I mean, what are we talking? He goes from 50 to 55 or he goes? Right. Yeah. Okay. That's right. And so just the $20,000 in student loans, is there anything else? No. Okay. $20,000 in student loans feels like a lot when you're making 50,000 um 20,000 in student loans feels a lot better when you're making 70,000 80,000

right right so what we need to do is we need to open that gap a little bit because right now it's like man this is almost half of my income. And in the United States, you know, the median income is somewhere around sixty seven thousand. And I really, really, really want to get you as close to that as possible. So you're staying home with the kids. I got to believe there's something in this Internet age. I believe I know, Michaela, there's something that you can also be doing to bring in some money, right? Obviously, you're staying home with the kids because you're like, hey, it's too expensive to put them in childcare, right? Did I guess that right? Right. Yeah, I mean, it's also just,

I can't let somebody else watch my kids too, you know? Wait a minute, wait a minute. Hold on, hold on, hold on. You've told me you can't move. You've told me you can't let somebody watch your kids. You told me you can't work. And then you're calling us. I've started a business. So I'm trying to work something that I can bring my kids with to sell at our markets and stuff here. Yes, that's good. I got to cut you off. That's good. But we need money today.

You're drowning with your ideas. With the way things, your non-negotiables are burying you guys you don't have enough money right and so you're gonna have to you and your husband have to give he wants to have this management job cool i need you to go to mcdonald's and work the night shift because i'm sure not working so you're gonna have to work two jobs or three jobs or i'm gonna start seeing keeping three of my neighbor's kids over at our house. But when you go into a problem as desperate as you're in, we can't make the bills,

and those little kids are absorbing your husband's tension and your tension and your frustration, and you go in with a whole bunch of can't do that, can't do that, can't do that, can't do that, that's a tough way to solve a problem. Well, you're cutting the legs out from under you. And it's not just you, Michaela. We've been having this conversation all afternoon with different callers. Everything doesn't get the yes. Like everything doesn't get to stay. You do have to go through and go, Hey, yeah, everybody look, I'm not everybody, but most parents have the ideal

scenario for their kids and that's what they want. I would love, I wish I could bring my kids to work and I could see them all day, every day, but I can't do that and do this job. So there's a give and take there. When Sam and I, my husband and I were getting out of debt, I wanted to be able to do what everybody else does, which is, you know, you come home after a long, hard day, you know, you order a pizza on a Friday, you watch Netflix. I didn't get to do that because we had to pay off our debt. And so there's part of this that you just go, okay, I have to make changes and they will be painful. And I want people to hear that. It doesn't feel good when you're paying off your debt. It sucks. It hurts. You sacrifice, you strain, and you push yourself to limits that

you're like, man, I don't feel like the guy next to me has to push himself to the type of limits that I'm pushing myself to. But at the end of the day, you turn into a different person. And that is the prize, Mikayla. That's at the end of this. You turn yourself into a different person. Number one, that person's debt free, right? But number two, no one can hold a candle to and no one can tell you anything other than, man, like you're confident, like you can do what you say you're going to do. You can do hard things. You know how to prioritize. You know how to spend your time wisely. That builds something in you, Michaela, that is going to be so priceless and so important throughout other, because there will be other storms in life. And this is going to create that well in you that you're going to be able to dig from and pull from and go, hey, remember when we did XYZ? Remember when we doubled our income? And remember when we just fought like dogs to get our income up? Remember when we sacrificed everything and we paid off that debt? No one can take that from you.

And so when you guys sit down and you say, okay are we going to sacrifice what are we going to do are we going to do something with the kids what does that look like am i going to get am i going to put this dream i could defer this dream of whatever the business you have for just a minute so i can make some money today it is going to be so so worth it because when you get to the point and you will get to this point mikaela when you can keep the home, and when you can do some of the things that you want to do, it's going to be that much more worth it because you worked and sacrificed and scrapped to get it. What's the minimum wage in Honolulu right now? $12. I think it's $11, actually. $11. I worked at a restaurant up until I had my child. Here's what I'm wondering.

What does October 1st through March 1st, what is six months? What is six months of a family member, a friend, someone from your church, or even a local daycare center. Watching your kids. Six months of you grinding it and hating every day of it. But you grind it, and then after, March 1st, you don't owe anybody any money. Right. And then you are able to sit with your kids and be fully present without that dragon hanging over your shoulder.

And then by that time, your husband's moved from his management position, where it was just a little bit of a raise to another position on the island somewhere. And what you're talking about is six months. And it feels like a hundred years when you're holding a five month old. But when I'm, I have a 13 year old now, and I made some sacrifices when he was young that allow me and him to do some incredible things that never would have happened when me and my wife sat down and she said are you seriously going back to school and I said I think I have to and I don't know why but I think I have to no idea that there's such thing called a podcast and your YouTube didn't exist

right at least in any way that I knew about it. And so there's something about saying, I'm just going to suck it up for a season, for right now, so that I can do these other things. When you get that money coming in, it's going to change your life. You get that debt off your shoulder, it changes your life.

You find a way to make $20,000. You know you can live off 50. So you're out of debt in a year if you can make this work. And hey, before you get off the line, we're going to give you every dollar. That is the budgeting app that we created here at Ramsey Solutions. It's the only budgeting app that I use. Back in 2015, when my husband and I were in the thick of it, Ramsey was like, here you go. We made every dollar and we made it to make this easier for you. And I've

never looked back. We use that thing. It's so helpful. It helps you plot your goals. It helps you see where you're at. And by the way, Michaela, I'm going to be doing a webinar on October 10th. It's at 1130 central time where I'm going to really walk through paycheck to paycheck living, how to break that cycle, like specifically the things that you're talking about. So I really want you to tune into that webinar. Please, please, please make it a priority and be there. It's going to help you. It's an hour long. It's a lunch break. And anybody else listening there it's going to help you it's an hour long it's a lunch break and anybody else listening it's open to the public I would love for you guys to sign up for my webinar again 10 10 we're going to be going through the every dollar app making sure you guys really have a handle on how to use this thing how it's truly going to help you

break that paycheck to paycheck cycle it's important. I'll see you there. You are listening to The Ramsey Show. I am Jade. He is John. We are taking calls about your life and your money. The scripture and quote of the day, it says Ecclesiastes 4, 9 through 10. He says, two are better than one because they have a good return for their labor. If either of them falls down, one can help the other up, but pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them. That's a word right there.

Then Linda Grayson said this, there's nothing better than a friend unless it's a friend with chocolate. Look, I ain't mad at that. I could use a little chocolate right now. John, if you're my friend, you'll find some. I would love some chocolate right now. We don't have any.

You know, I'm looking at the scripture, Ecclesiastes. It says, but pity the one who falls and has no one to help them. And it's kind of funny. You and I were talking during the break. John, we get calls all the time. And I mean, that's what you call in, right? And you're hoping that we can shed a little light on your situation. You're hoping that we can say a couple of things that's going to put you on the right track. And sometimes,

John, folks call in and they've already got a laundry list prepared of A, what they're not going to do and B, why it won't work, right? And three, what they can't do. And what they can't do. And here's the thing. And I said this to John during the break. I'm just being candid. If you call in and you say,

oh, you know, here's the thing. I can't earn more. I can't move. I can't sacrifice this or that or that. What would happen if i just went oh oh okay cool well sucks to be you then what if i just you would not be okay with that you would go well what kind of show is this you guys are supposed to give me advice you guys are supposed to help me move forward but here's the deal it only works if you believe it works if we give you

a laundry list of things hey hey, you could try this, you could do this. Here's what worked for me. Here's what worked for John. And we're giving you real life experience. It's not a theory. We didn't just pull something out of our butt and go, hey, try this. You know, it might work for you. We're telling you time tested techniques when it comes to money, when it comes to life, things that not only worked for people out there that you might not know or have ever heard of, but we're people right here in the studio who are telling you, hey, look, we sacrificed. We slept on an air mattress. John pulled himself in and out of school. He made sacrifices to make it work for his family. We're telling you that, and you can either take it or you can leave it, right? You lead a horse to water, but you can't

make him drink. But here's the thing. You came here for a drink and we're trying to give you that. And the belief thing, it works either way, right? Whether you believe something works or you believe it doesn't, like that's your choice. So the things that we have for you, the resources that we have for you, you can make it true for you or you can make it false for you you can say hey like i believe this or i don't and there's a big part of that like you've got to you've got to connect to that and you've got to stop saying i'm the exception to the rule well and there used to be a cultural ethos of we can do anything yes we can go to the moon we can we can do anything. Yes. We can go to the moon. We can go liberate Europe. We can go fight this war.

We can do these things. And now our cultural ethos is y'all can't. You can't. It's too hard. It's too hard. Someone's got to come get you. You guys have too much pain. You just, you can't.

And Jade, I- There's too much standing in your way. I hear, I'm frustrated by that ethos of you can't. Because I've just had the privilege for 20 something years sitting with people who have scratched and clawed and figured it out. And it's amazing to watch them. And I'm frustrated by those who say,

I'm not going to do that. I can't do that. I can't drive a Corolla. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. I can't just a Corolla. Yes, you can. Yes, you can. I can't just go to work. Yes, you can. I just can't drive in the morning before work and then deliver pizzas at night. Yes, you can. There's always something you can do to better your situation. Always. I don't care if it's just an inch forward. You keep compiling those inches and before you know

it, you will have moved steps and bounds and miles further. And even if you can't move, you can reach out and say, will you help me? Absolutely. Will you help me? Will you help me? And there will be an army of people there. It's just this. But you have to receive the help, John. Right. I know. Yeah. It's a culture of disempowerment that is so heartbreaking to me. We had that last caller and I just want to tell her, I know you have this vision for your life and that's awesome. And I actually think you can get there, but you're going to have to stop saying, well, I can't do that. And I can't do that. And I can't do that because you're canting yourself into a miserable, miserable place.

Yeah. And the thing is we can all, we can all look at our lives and find reasons why it won't work right like i could look at myself i could be like well i went to high school in a small town um i'm black i'm a female it's hard for women to get ahead um you know we've got this debt uh we're just musicians musicians you know it's feast and famine you know you're a starving artist you can make all of these assumptions about yourself and cause them to be true. It's almost like, uh, it's like a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Like you're in a moment in the moment sucks. Like, let's be honest. Like sometimes you can be in a moment and it does feel like the walls are closing in on you. But the more you rehearse that in your brain and continue to say it's true and have no vision for the future. I say it all the time.

Words matter. Brene Brown says, whatever you go looking for, you're sure to find. Yes. Yeah. She says that I say it too. And I know it came the time. Words matter. Brene Brown says, whatever you go looking for, you're sure to find. Yes. Yeah. She says that. I say it too.

And I know it came from somebody. Okay. But it's a beautiful thing. If I go looking for opportunity. Yes. We were talking on the plane today on the way back from New York when you said,

you and Sam sat down and said, if this is going to actually work, we got to start a business. We have to. Yes. We got to figure it out. We're going to start a business then. And it's like,

okay, what do we know how to do? We're musicians. So let's figure this out. And, but it's a then. And it's like, okay, what do we know how to do? We're musicians, so let's figure this out. And, but it's a matter of, hey, Sheila, when we're doing it, I'm gonna have to start adjuncting classes and I'm gonna have to become a professor on top of my dean of students roles.

And I'm also gonna take this because we gotta get out of this mess. And she's like, I'm gonna lose you. And I was like, you're gonna lose me either way. At least this is our path of loss, right? And you grind and you yes and you grind and you grind and you grind and you grind then the sun comes out it does and but what you said john is really important i don't think people take enough time to look forward and dream people don't take

enough time to they're in the moment and they see where they're at right now and it's like oh this is just this is me this is my life this is how it This is my life. This is how it is. And I'm like, no, let's take a moment and let's zoom out for a moment in 10 years, in 15 years, where would you like to be? Taking that time, taking time to just stare out of a window and think, you know, what would it be like if, what would happen if I had that conversation with my spouse? What would happen if we paid off both of our vehicles? Like, what would that feel like taking the time? And I challenge anybody today, take some time and dream. Think about how your life could be better. Write down a couple of ways. And then write down what must be true, because let me tell you something, John, with Sam and I, you know, for anybody listening for the first time, real quick.

Forty four hundred sixty thousand dollars of debt coming into our marriage from student loans and cars and everything else. And I knew I wanted, not early on did I know I wanted a family, but a little further in, I'm like, man, I want a family. This is never going to happen. You know, like I want to be, I had this dream of like, I want to be the type of mom who can, you know, go to the field trips and be there to pick their kid up. And, you know, I just had this very clear vision. And I was so, so, so, so unbelievably far from that. And it broke my heart. And I remember saying to my husband, I'm like, I can't like I can't bring kids into this. Like, we've got to clean up this mess. We will be bringing them into such a mess. And there was other things going on as

well, too. And I remember sitting down and just being like, okay, what's got to be true for anything that we want in life to happen? Because this right here, it ain't it. And this is not working. And we're so worth more than this. And that's a hard conversation. But once you have it, it's like, okay, there's the North Star. Let's start reversing, reverse engineering this thing backwards. What's got to happen first? And then honestly, enough people don't sit down with pen and paper and literally write down what has to happen A1 first. And if you don't have a map, it's really hard to...

What's that old saying? If you don't have a map, if you don't know where you're going, you're sure to get there. Oh, yeah, yeah. You just meander around. Yeah. If you aim at nothing, you hit it every time. That's right. So, yeah.

If you hear us say anything, folks who are still listening to this, you can. You can. When you think you can and it's 2 a.m. and you're exhausted and you just looked at your credit card balance and you're in bed with somebody that said, I do, and y'all are so far apart from each other and your kids don't want to be around you and you think, I'm out. You can. And it's a little bitty step. And sometimes it's reaching out and saying, I don't know what to do next. Will you help me? Please go make that call, make that step and then go get it go get it go do it look we're normal people all of us are out here scratching and clawing if john can do it if i can do it i know it sounds cliche but you can surely do it you can tell me you won't do it but

do not ever tell me you can't you You can do this. All things are possible. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, what's up, guys? It's Jade. Look, if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey baby steps, go to ramseysolutions.com

and click the Get Started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's RamseySolutions.com and click Get Started.