The Ramsey Show - App - Student Loan Forgiveness Is a Hot Mess (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 25, 2022

Dave Ramsey & George Kamel discuss: The ambiguity of the student loan forgiveness announcement, If you should take a refund on student loans you've already paid back, Dealing with bills in collections. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

I'm the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. We're glad you're with us, America. George Campbell, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. As we answer your questions about your life and your money,

open phones here at 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. George, I haven't seen such an uproar, and I don't know when. Dave, I made the mistake of asking on Instagram, what are y'all's thoughts on this whole student loan thing? And apparently we're not the only ones with opinions. You think? I've never seen people so angry.

Yeah, it's a deal. It's a real deal. So if you haven't heard, President Biden announced yesterday that he is forgiving $10,000 of student loan debt for anyone making under $125,000. If you were getting a Pell Grant at the time, $20,000. No idea how he's going to fund it. No idea how it's going to be implemented. No, I mean, the government officials are running around like like uh ants on a hot tin shovel i mean it's it's just like uh because they don't know what how

the crap they're going to do this because it's kind of like you remember when they announced the ppp thing oh yeah and we didn't have the staff to execute the stuff and people started spending the money before they could actually get it and then they never got it so here's the thing we still don't know i don't know maybe it's out there and i've missed it but i i said yesterday on the show i think he has to get congressional approval on this i don't think you can do a 300 billion dollar transaction without congressional approval i don't think you can do that with an executive order i might be wrong i'm not a legal scholar but pretty sure i'm right which means he's got to run this through Congress.

And here's what's interesting. You won't know if this is real by the time you vote in the midterms. Brilliant political play. Just leave the carrot dangling. Well, it may not go through. Good chance it doesn't go through exactly as it is. I mean, you try to get something through Congress. Come on, even if they're on your side right and if it doesn't go through by midterms and congress flips over and it's no longer

democratically run it will never go through and so biden just got all you people stirred up if that's the case for nothing if that's how it goes down now won't that be a politically genius move well it really is both bases even more? Yeah. Create more political divisiveness? I told you guys four months ago, three months ago, that when they moved it to August 31st on the extension of the no student loan interest, I told you midterms are coming. This president will announce something in the last week of August about student loan

forgiveness, and it probably will have no teeth. Now, I was wrong about the second part, because this has has got teeth he stated exactly what he's going to do and it is substantial i thought it's going to be some wispy thing like he said the other day we forgave nine billion dollars worth and it wasn't he didn't do anything it was a school that went broke and they have to forgive it it had nothing to do with one of his programs it was regulations that were already in place but he he's walking, strutting around, taking political credit for it. So very interesting, though. So he did. But, you know, he's the worst economic presidency since Jimmy Carter.

I mean, the guy, everything he touched turns to poop when it comes to the economy. I mean, we got inflation. We got high gas pumps. We got a recession. We got stock market going down. We got interest rates going up. We got a housing market slowing. I don't know when the economy smelled this bad it's been a long time and i'm old well the timing is as the young kids say sus which means suspicious dave i'm teaching you

something here sus yeah that's what they say yeah it is sus for sure so why wait a year and that's not really sus it's brilliant political move yes so what you do you back up for your midterms where the democrats are going to take a bloodbath and you throw a hail mary and you go i'm gonna help you i'm gonna give you more money only you're not gonna really know if i am by the time you have to vote oh it's just you think the positioning is from if you're a political manipulator the positioning is just brilliant it's just brilliant it has nothing to do with it being good or righteous or principled no i'm just saying if if i was running for president i would do the exact same thing i mean that's just if i had no principles i mean that's exactly what i would do because it's just the way he set it up and it all

and you know now he does apparently have the executive order ability to extend through the end of the year no interest interest. So that's good. We can kick the can down the road. So those of you that got, if you do get the $10,000 forgiveness, we are unabashedly happy for you. No sarcasm whatsoever. We want to celebrate anyone who's getting their debt. Anybody who gets help from anything that is burdening them, we love it. We're happy for you.

It's all good. If someone is broke and out of work and can't feed their kids and they get welfare checks we're not mad at them we want to help you do better than that over time because that's not a recipe for good life but for the short term we're not going to shame you for taking help from the government that is legally offered ever yeah never have uh now we'll tell you if we think it's stupid and we'll tell you if it's not sustainable if it's a bad long-term plan for your life which usually government help falls in all of those things but uh but but so we're happy for you but we're also angry simultaneously with all of

you who paid off your loans and did the right thing and were moral and said i signed this i have an obligation i'm going to honor my obligation i'm a person of integrity and now i got screwed or i feel like i got screwed and the reason you feel like you got screwed because you got screwed that's why you feel that simple so uh so people have a right to be angry people have a right to be happy it's it's a mixed bag here but most people are angry because they know how this works well that's in our that's in our feed yes i mean we're our feed is going to be people like that it's not you know if you went over in some left wing thing some left wing whatever wingnut thing you'd have their feet is all that he's saint biden or whatever that's because that's just you know we got a bit of an echo chamber going here sure but there is precedent that i'm worried about where people

go okay well why pay off any more student loan well what if there's more forgiveness and here's the thing i've been saying this since the beginning and it's in the documentary borrowed future so i've said it years and years and thing. I've been saying this since the beginning, and it's in the documentary Borrowed Futures. I've said it years and years and years ago. I've been saying it over and over. You really can't forgive student loans while you're still making them if the reason you're forgiving them is they're horrible and damaging to people, and yet you continue to make them. That's intellectually dishonest. So if anybody else with common sense other than a politician would go wait this is hurting people

first let's stop it and then let's try to help the people that were hurt stop the bleeding and i could i could get involved in that conversation yeah but that has nothing to do with politics that's just like the right thing to do in common sense and stuff if this wasn't politics that would still be the solution is not to put a band-aid on it so you know what are you gonna do with bubba who takes out ten thousand dollars in january we're gonna be right back where we started even if we forgave every student loan and across america would he be back right where we started today yeah four years from now because they're still making them so i mean you know when you're 18 you can't buy beer but you can go a hundred,000 in debt. There's just something stupid about that, y'all. But it's our American right, Dave.

I mean, I don't even know how to respond to that. That's so stupid. I just wanted to throw that out there for you. It's our American right to be stupid. That's right. Well, you do have the right to be stupid. That is the beauty of freedom, is that you got the right to be dumb. To the tune of $300 billion.

My pastor used to say, the beauty of America is you have the right to be dumb. To the tune of $300 billion. My pastor used to say, the beauty of America is you have the right to be wrong. But I agree with that. It's just an interesting discussion. It's interesting when you view it from the political lens, which we're not politics people, but this one's kind of sus. Whoa, I picked up on it quick. Thank you. Gen Z, Dave.

Gen Z just erupted. YouTube listeners just are all running around in circles cheering and throwing up confetti right now. I'm just happy I taught Dave something new. It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks. Careful. Sorry. You just called me a dog. A young dog new tricks.

Wait, you still called me a dog. Dang it, I can't win with you people. Hey, maybe you people aren't having fun, but we are. This is the Ramsey Show. open phones this hour this is the ramsey show george camel ramsey personality is my co-host so george here's a little math for you 300 billion a billion is a thousand million 300 billion is 300 000 million you can give 300 000 people a million dollars and they'd be millionaires that's wild that's wild that's about it's the same exact math. That just blows my mind! Patrick is with us. Patrick's in Columbus, Ohio. Hey, Patrick, how are you?

Hey, Dave, thank you for having me. Sure, what's up? Hey, so I paid off my student loans back in 2020. From about March 13th to when I finally paid them off, there was about $6,000 in there. And I'm reading that I could potentially ask a refund on those payments. And my thought is that there's news coming out whether it happens. I won't do it if it sounds shady, but is it a possibility that I could get some money since I paid off my student loans, but get the government to pay a portion of it for me?

So here's the thing. The Biden administration has given almost zero details on how this is going to be implemented or the nuances, things like you're talking about. And everybody and his brother has written an opinion piece including me um now on this whole thing and uh and so you know what we're doing is we're guessing how it's all going to roll out so that has not been announced by the white house that was announced by someone in an opinion piece that they think it might happen that way and the details are not out on this so um i you know but i don't know anything because i never thought we'd actually get to the place that we

forgave student loans so i'm stupid i just my ability to i was able to predict that he was going to do something by the end of the year into the by the end of the august by correctly but i was not able to predict that he actually was going to do something of substance, which maybe he hadn't yet. We'll see. So I don't know if this is real. I think that, you know, there's no indication from an official that this is real, what you're proposing. I have seen what you're talking about, though.

So let's see. What would I do if I were in your shoes? Would I go back and get the money for free? Hmm. Let me answer it this way. I try to answer questions, what would I do? And that's to be fair. In other words, not to be hypocritical.

So here's the thing. I have been against the lottery in the state of Tennessee since it started many, many, many years ago because it is a tax on poor people. The vast majority of the people, the zip codes that raise 80% of the lottery money are poor zip codes. The vast majority of the money going in the lottery, more than 80% of it is from poor people. And so lower income zip codes. Now, what's the lottery used for in the state of Tennessee? It's used to give each kid $3,000 to $4,000 towards their tuition to go to college.

So it's poor people sending middle class and upper class people's kids to college. And so I'm morally against that. And I campaigned against it when the state passed it. I obviously, my side lost. We had it for a long time. But when my kids went to college, there was free lottery money available for my kids to go to college. I could have, as a multi-multi-multi-millionaire, accepted, at the time it was $3,000, I think it's more than that now, $3,000 or $4,000 per kid per year towards their tuition. It was available to me. It was

legal. It was the program. But I had campaigned against it on the auspices tuition it was available to me it was legal it was the program but i had campaigned against it on the auspices that it was morally wrong because i don't believe more poor people sending rich people's kids to college is right and taking advantage of intact it's a tax on the poor it's what the lottery is and so i don't believe it's right so i just i don't do it now so what i when my kids got ready to college I did not take that money because to me, that would be a lack of integrity after I had campaigned against it. So if I were in the situation today, as hard at hardcore as I've been against student loan forgiveness, for my family to actually accept student loan forgiveness would be super hypocritical.

Agreed? Agreed. So I'll leave that on you. And it's not saying you're right or wrong either way. But if you have had, like, strong conversations with your friends over coffee and you say, this is wrong, this is wrong, this is wrong, I don't think it's morally right, then you should not accept it. If you're ambivalent, you're kind of in the middle,

I think you're okay morally to accept it. What do you think? There's nothing unethical here. If I'm in issues, I'm going, hey, I could use that money. The only thing that can be unethical is if you took a stand against it and then took it. Sure. But to say, hey, I'm going to get this refund. I'm going to apply it to my baby steps.

It's going to help me in a financial journey. And this is a legal, there's no loopholes here. I think he should go ahead and do it. And this is coming from studentaid.gov, education department. This is where this news is coming from. So it's a legitimate source, but nothing's actually happened yet. So it's still a little bit of we don't really know what could happen. Here's the thing.

They did not write this. I mean, they did not write this proposal from Biden. Biden sent it to them. They're saying an announcement related to the extension. They have not had time yet. They're guessing what it might look like, too. And so, no, it's not coming out of the white house it's coming out of the deep bowels of a bureaucracy and we'll see if any of that

actually makes it to the light of day i you know if you're ambivalent kind of in the middle agnostic to the whole thing you don't have a stand on it take the money if you're all for student loan forgiveness i would take the money you should be able to do that without conscience. But if you've been raising a banner like I have for many years that this is wrong, or at least it's wrong while you're still making the loans, and then after that we can discuss everything. It's just infuriating. But then you have to do this. So I didn't take the lottery money.

I didn't take the PPP money. Our company could have gotten a big check during ppp and i'm telling people this is a bad idea stay away from this it's going to turn into a loan you're stepping up on a trap door these guys are going to choke you later you need to stay out of it and that ppp thing very quietly has ruined some lives and i'm so glad we didn't take it but for me to stay out be on the radio going it's horrible and then y'all send me my check you know i'll take one yeah so it's basically if it's not against your values go for it there's nothing unethical about it yeah so that's the thing so for here's another example the titans

stadium came into nashville many years ago and like almost every stadium or sports complex that comes in they ask the city for uh free taxes no taxes for years or forever they ask the city to put to borrow money and put into the project some cases they ask the city to build the project or half of it or whatever and uh that's government money citizens money going into a private enterprise and it's not like nfl owners need money hello okay but but i actually was okay with them doing that which sounds weird to a guy like me but and the reason is is because of what that creates in the overall economy it's not necessarily the titans themselves or the sports team itself that's the big deal it's all the things that it does for the

economy all the other jobs and all the other things that happen in the economic revenue that's created that is around it it may it's a good deal for the city the city makes more and increased tax revenue off of the other things than it than they gave up in the revenue on the deal so i said do it okay and so when we did this piece of ground and we built this building, we were given some tax breaks because we're a huge employer in the state of Tennessee. I accepted those. And so, you know, that is not incongruent. That is not incongruent. So people will say, Dave, that's not fair. You take tax credits. What's the difference here? Yeah. What do you say to those people? Well, the difference is, number one, I didn't borrow something and

then ask for it to be forgiven after i promised to repay it i don't there's no there's no value issue on the line number one but number two i'm what i'm saying is i've been consistent on what i've done in private and the stands of taking public and that's all we would ask any of you to do is is you know whatever you whatever you believe just be that all the time and quit being freaking what were you you know i don't know what the uh gen z version of two-faced is but we used to call it two-faced quit being two-faced you're different on sunday than you are on monday stop it you know why don't you just be like the same all the time and so consequently you know my christian friends are as angry at me for being

not Christian enough as my non-Christian friends are because I'm a Christian. And good God, you just can't win. You've never been in the business of making everyone happy, Dave. We know that. Really? That's one thing I do know about you. And we love it. Well, well, you know, welcome to the parade. Horsescape, right? Oh, my goodness. Welcome to the parade. This is the Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free stage, Daniel and Melissa are with us. Hey, guys, how are you?

Good. How are you? Better than we deserve. Welcome. Where do you live? So we are from Mount Arlington, New Jersey. It's about 35 minutes west of New York City. Oh, okay.

Perfect. Good to have you guys. Welcome to Nashville. How much debt did you pay off? So we paid off $97,776. Way to go. How long did this take? 22 months.

Good for you. And your range of income during that time? Between 60 and 170. Wow, nice jump. Okay. So what do you guys do for a living? So I'm in sales. I'm a teacher.

Okay. Was somebody not working and then somebody started working or what happened to that income? No, we got married. Oh, hell yeah. Okay. Okay. So somebody not working and then somebody started working or what happened to that income? No, we got married. Oh, okay. Okay. So who started? Who was the 60? So that was me.

That was you. Okay. And then your income went up and you got married both. Correct. Okay, cool. So y'all been married about two years? Yeah, just a little bit. Just a year.

Good. Very cool. And 22 months later, boom, it's done. What kind of debt was the 98 000 so it was pretty much all my debt it was 68 uh private student loans 25 federal student loans and then 4k in car okay it's all gone all gone wow how old are you two uh so i'm 29 i'm 30 okay yeah so uh melissa let me get this straight um you like this guy so much that you're gonna marry into a hundred thousand dollars worth of stupid oh yeah i married into that i married into the ramsey show so okay yeah we listen this all goes together it all goes

together oh my gosh you can't escape this i had her listening to the podcast on our way to our honeymoon. Oh, my goodness. Now, you're just a real romantic. Yeah, it was nice. You're that guy, I can tell. Oh, my gosh. You got the Ramsey show on your honeymoon. There's something wrong, man.

Good gosh. It was part of our premarital counseling. There you go. So, Melissa, were you on board day one with the Ramsey stuff? You're like, all right. I mean, you clearly have been doing well financially to not come in with any debt. Yeah. So, my dad's really into finances.

So, I was lucky enough to graduate college without any debt. Moved home. I got a condo. I kind of just followed his Neil Guckin program. Yeah. So, then when he was talking about learning about a budget and moving into that, I was all for it. Good, yeah. So, I'm usually one who's kind of strict on a budget anyway. So it was nice to kind of be on the same page.

Hey, this guy's got common sense. Maybe he is attractive. There you go. Who knew? There you go. Left my book. I like it. I like it.

Good for you. Good choice. Yeah, well done. See, marrying into debt is not a problem. Marrying into debt that I'm not going to do anything about it, that's a problem. So you didn't have that issue. So well done, y'all. Very cool.

So first order of business in the marriages, we got to clean up this mess. We're done. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. What's the secret to paying off $98,000 in 22 months? So, I mean, it started when I wanted to get married. I didn't want to bring the debt into the marriage. And it was about taking accountability. So I said, I signed up for this debt. I need to get married. I didn't want to bring the debt into the marriage. And it was about taking accountability. So I said, I signed up for this debt.

I need to get rid of this debt. This is my debt. There were years where I didn't even look at my student loan bill. I thought I'd be paying it off forever. I actually did the math over the past seven years of paying it. I paid $148,000, including all of the interest. Good God. So I was doing a lot of Dave-ish.

And then I met her, and that's when it kind of all changed for me i said i got to be the man that she needs me to be let's get start getting this deck cleaned up and let's uh let's move forward so we cash flowed uh engagement ring our wedding and then we had a our first child shortly after we got married she She's three months old. She's three months old. Awesome. Yeah, so that's Reagan. Very cool.

Ramsey was a runner-up for the second game. We don't want to creep you guys out. Middle name show. That would be extra weird. Wow, you guys are incredible. Yeah. So what do you tell a couple who maybe isn't on the same page, who didn't come from this background,

and they're trying to figure this out, they want to pay off the debt, but they can't quite get on the plan? We just say it's worth it. Because when our, I mean, she was our surprise little baby after her honeymoon and all that kind of stuff. But to kind of go into that new adventure in life, it's already a lot of stress built up to go in that without having any debt behind us. I feel like it's taken the stress off and allowed us to still live our lives, enjoy that new chapter, even with all the new parent stress. And I grew up in a household full of debt and I knew the stress that that put on me

and I didn't want to bring her into that stress either. And, you know, a lot of getting rid of my student loan debt too was me showing my mother that, you know, she raised me the right way, even though we made a mistake by getting the student loans in the first place. I didn't want her to think that it was holding me back from my life. I didn't want her to carry that burden. I didn't want to carry that burden anymore. So we changed my family tree. Wow. It was worth it you know there's a uh statistic that uh tom stanley who wrote millionaire next door also wrote a book

called the millionaire mind and he studied people that 10 million dollars or more and he found 38 characteristics of those people demographic characteristics character characteristics all kinds of things about those people but the thing that showed up the most often, the most common characteristic, the number one correlating statistic in those people was integrity and honor. And that's what you've brought up like four times in this conversation already. Integrity and honor, integrity and honor, integrity and honor. There's a huge tie between people of integrity and honor and their ability to build wealth. It just goes together. And, you know, we hear these lies out there that only crooks get wealthy and all that. huge tie between people of integrity and honor and their ability to build wealth it just it goes

together and you know we hear these lies out there that only crooks get wealthy and all that it's actually exactly the opposite in the actual data the data shows up and you guys are walking testimony that very cool yeah i want to show my mom that i was even though we messed up i can stand up i want to be the right kind of man for my wife i grew up in a household with a stress i want that on my daughter all of man for my wife. I grew up in a household with a stress. I don't want that on my daughter. All of these things are service, integrity, honor statements coming from Daniel. Powerful stuff, Daniel. Powerful, man.

You're a good guy. You guys are a great couple. This is amazing. I'm so proud of y'all. Thank you. Very cool. I bet your parents are both proud. Oh, yeah.

Yes. Yeah, very cool. My mother was the one who introduced me to you. Ah, okay. She said, okay, we made a mess, but here's how you clean it up. Yeah, exactly. There you go. Good stuff. Way to go, you guys.

Thank you. So proud of you. We got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you. That's the next chapter in your story for sure. A copy of Total Money Makeover for you to give away to someone because you live like no one else, so later you can live and give like no one else. And a one-year subscription to Financial Peace University. If you've not gone through it yet, go through it's got the new videos in it that's the best we've ever done including george and dr john deloney and rachel cruz in there as well and

uh and me and so be sure you go through that and can go way to go guys way to go thank you for coming all the way to nashville to celebrate with us it's an honor to see your smiling faces we'll be back pleasure to be here. Very well done. Very well done. All right. Daniel and Melissa from Jersey. $98,000 paid off in 22 months right after they got married. $60,000 to $170,000.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Are you ready? Yep. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Yeah! Whoa! three two one we're debt free man oh man oh man that's how it's done a lot of transformation right there way beyond just becoming debt free i owe this money i need to pay this money this is an obligation i took on i'm gonna and when a

young guy like that says those kinds of phrases uh it's an indication that his future is really bright because uh you know the the thing that is rare is is not uh people with an opinion the thing that is rare is people with character with deep kinds of honor and integrity and a sense of service for their family. And that's selflessness rather than selfishness. Those kinds of people don't take many selfies. Definitely not. That's not how they work. He probably takes a good one.

It's not all about me. It's not about me. It's not about me. I'm not trying to highlight me. And those are the kinds of people that all the data that we have indicates that that's a long play. Let's play a long ball, and that's going to take you to a really cool place. I was talking to Rachel this morning about folks that are upset. They paid off their debt, and now there's this forgiveness that could

be looming, and they were messaging me saying it changed my character to pay off that debt. It showed me that I can take control of my life. I can take charge that life doesn't have to happen to me. And I know it sounds trite, but that's priceless. Way beyond $10,000 of forgiveness. What that does to the trajectory of your life and the success that you'll experience, man, that's powerful stuff.

So if that's you out there, we see you and I'm proud of you for the sacrifice you've made for the person that you've became, the person you're becoming following this journey wow that may be the first time on the ramsey show someone feels seen i hope you feel seen this is for gen z dave that's what it's all about you and your language this is the ramsey show Субтитры подогнал «Симон» George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today when the team gets together at Ramsey we talk a lot about our mission to change America's toxic culture it makes us mad to see people get messed over in this culture by stuff like debt or watch kids sign away their future with a student loan or watch folks you know take jobs that they hate that kind

of stuff we don't want that to happen so the people people that work here, we're on a crusade. It's not a J-O-B. It's a mission. Now, if that sounds cheesy to you, then you don't want to work here. If that sounds like a passion you share, you need to check out all the roles at Ramsey Solutions that we're looking to fill. We'll probably hire about 300 people this year. There's never been a better time to find a job doing work you love.

We need developers, UX designers, content writers. We need people to help us build digital products that actually change people's lives. So when you're writing code here, it actually matters. To see what it's like to do work that matters with us before you apply, you can follow us on Facebook or Instagram by searching Ramsey Careers, or you can apply for your dream job at RamseySolutions.com slash careers. RamseySolutions.com slash careers. I tell the guys that we were onboarding a group. We do onboarding about every two weeks, and I was meeting with the newbies coming on board, the new guys, Monday for a little bit.

I told them, I said, this is going to be the best job you've ever had and the absolute hardest work you will ever do in your life because people around here work so hard they're so smart and they care so deeply that if you don't you won't fit in the bar is high it is it is it's a great place to work but it is a time now we do go home at 5 30 i mean we're not parking lots empty we'll yell at you if you're here longer than that yeah we don't want you here once you go home be with your family. But we don't work 80 hours a week. But when we're at work, we work. We got stuff to do.

I haven't stopped all morning. I get it. And I set the pace, and everybody's got to keep up with that then. And I have for 30 years. And we play hard, too. Work hard, play hard is one of our values. We eat a lot. Dave, during lunch.

The money I spend on food around here is just amazing. You people eat biscuits. It's amazing. All right, Dayton is with us. Dayton's in Wichita, Kansas. Hi, Dayton. How are you? Hi, Dave.

How's it going? Better than I deserve. How can we help? I've got a judgment against me that I'm making payments on for a medical bill. I'm making a $50 payment. That's the most I can make. That added interest to the bill after judgment. So there's no interest on the actual hospital bill.

So you actually got sued and there's an actual judgment? Yes, two of them actually. Okay. So then you did an agreement with the court or with the attorney and agree to order to pay payments yes and how much is the judgment uh the judgment is for uh six thousand total i've already paid uh like two thousand on it twenty five hundred on it so is now $4,000 or it had interest out of that? The interest was the bill was originally $4,000.

The interest was like $1,600. But my payment... What do you owe today, sir? What do you owe today? Sir, $4,500. That's what I'm asking. Okay. And what about the other one?

The other one is $4,500, and it's recent. I haven't paid anything on it. Okay. So there's $9,000 makes you free. Not debt-free, but free of judgments. Correct. What do you make? $2,800 a year, about $2,400 a month.

Okay. $28,000 a year. Okay. What do you do? I'm a parts advisor here at a dealership. How old are you? 32, sir. Okay.

I don't know what to do. All my money goes straight to the interest that doesn't pay the debt. I think A1 is getting this income up. I think you can do better. Have you looked at other jobs, working overtime, doing side hustles? Around here for this area, there's not really too much work that pays more. You're in Wichita, Kansas? Yeah.

That's not true. This is not a tiny little town. Do you have a Walmart? Not a tiny little town. There's lots of places you can do things. I'm south of Wichita about an hour. Oh, okay. All right.

So it's a pretty rural area? Yeah. Are you married? It's right on the Oklahoma line. No. Engaged, but not married. Okay. Is there anything keeping you there other than her? My kids.

I've got kids with my ex-wife. Okay. All right. So here's the thing. A really good, strong part-time job, and it might mean that weekends you go drive north and stay in a hotel room. I don't know. Into Wichita and get, you know, a really great part-time job.

But a great part-time job, you could make $10,000 in six months. And just make this go away. And George is exactly right. Part of the problem is you're on a really tight budget. You don't make a ton of money. And the long-term solution is to get your income up long term and the short-term solution is to get your income up short term if we go find 10 grand we change your life right yeah yeah it wouldn't take much to make my life a whole lot better but i can't it's not a hundred grand it's

not a hundred grand it's 10 grand right And so there's legal action I could take? No, there's no legal action. You got sued and you lost the lawsuit because you owed the money. Okay. And, you know, there's no real, I mean, there's no, I mean, you could file bankruptcy, but filing bankruptcy on $9,000 is ludicrous. No, you need to just go get, you need to go get some money. And I don't, I don't know what the the easiest fastest way for you to have the best possible

paying part-time job in your situation in a rural town in kansas is uh but it might be to drive into wichita for the weekends and work weekends up there and just bust your butt work like 14 hours a day 15 hours a day and i don't care if you go up there i don't care if you go up there and build decks or you shovel sidewalks or or clean out septic tanks i don't care what you do but go get you some money over the next six months and get this off of you and that's the thing that that's the only way i know how to do it um you could also sell everything that isn't tied down at this point too and try to make some quick money that way i gotta tell you if you get married and uh the household income is 32 000 that is half of the annual

average annual income in america today half that puts you in the lower lower income bracket with two kids 32 000 poverty level in america today according to the federal poverty guidelines okay so i'm not picking on you. I'm not shaming you. I'm pointing out that you need a better career long-term to have a better life, and that might entail you and your new wife move, and you make some trips back to see the kiddos in order for you to have a much better situation. I don't know, but it sounds like you are convinced, and I'm not sure you're wrong, that there's very little long-term upside around your area.

Where, you know, in a metro area right now, you can make $32,000 falling off a log. I mean, it's, you know, and you can make $60,000 if you get out there and hustle. So, doing something. And that's what i want for you i just want you to have a better life uh and so if there is not economic opportunity for you you may need to consider relocating as a long-term thing and how you work that with the kids from the former wife yeah well there's not a lot of options we need more options and if that means moving i'm okay with that if it means going around the neighborhood saying how i'll mow lawns i'll

walk dogs i'll do whatever to make some money right now. I think people respect that, and it could be a short-term solution. Hustle and grind. Hustle and grind, man. It's the only way to do it. But that's what I would do if I were in your shoes. If I woke up in your shoes, I would be about to go crazy with work. And hard work won't kill you.

Right before you die, you pass out. Don't worry about it. So it's okay. You're going to be all right uh and i don't think you're afraid of hard work i think you just don't believe you can find any and i want you to go find some now because that changes everything people feel paralyzed just kind of beating themselves down going well you got yourself into this mess and we just got to go all right i got here but we can get out we can get out of this if you're in a situation where there is truly not a lot of economic opportunity around you there's not a lot of buzz in the air um you know it's the polar opposite of a big city and i don't want to

live in a huge city either i get that um and if you're used to living out in the country you don't live in a city at all i get that too but you also have to be where there's economic activity to have economic activity land in your pocketbook, land in your wallet. Yeah. And so there's some reality to that, and you've got to think about where it is you're going to do and how you're going to do this. I stayed in Nashville and ran this when everybody told me in talk radio if I didn't move to L.A. or New York, we'd never make it. We proved them to be wrong on that, but we found a way to work around it and still have the career. And we're the second largest talk radio show in America today. And we're out of Nashville, not LA or New York. So it can be done, but you've got to really think about how you're going to pull it off.

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