The Ramsey Show - App - Student Loan Scams Are on the Rise (Hour 3)

Episode Date: March 3, 2022

Dave Ramsey & George Kamel discuss: Should you wait for student loan forgiveness? Making payments on your kids' student loans, Student loan scams on the rise, Going out on your own as a young adult. Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, and George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. We're talking about your life and your money. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your relationships, your careers, your money, your job, your boundaries. We talk about all of it here.

888-825-5225. Misty's with us in Indianapolis. Hi, Misty. How are you? I'm great. Thank you guys so much for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So I'm calling about my son's school loan. When I was first learning about the baby steps, he was getting ready to go to college. He did take out a small loan against my advice. I did not co-sign for it. But I did say that I would pay it back when it came time to be due because I felt bad because I had not done anything for his college. I hadn't prepared for college at all for him.

I was expecting it to be in four years, and I would be done with the baby steps by then. Unfortunately, the pandemic hit. He took a semester off and never returned back to school. So in the meantime, this loan company had my bank account number because they had said if I paid a small amount each month, it would be better in the end. So they started automatically taking payments out. And then within, it was a year ago, he ran away from home, which he is an adult, but I now have almost no contact with him. So I also have no ability to see what the loan amount is, what's left, how much to pay. So my question is, since I said I would pay initially, should I keep paying it? Or since he left and pretty much didn't follow what I thought was going to happen, should I?

What was the balance? It was a $12,000 loan. Okay. What do you make? Right now I have a really good salary. I make, this past year I made $140,000. So it's nothing for me to pay it as of right now. Why are you estranged?

Why is he not speaking to you? I'm not quite sure. He told me, I have seen him about three times in the last year. He told me it was because I was too manipulative. I believe that his father had gotten into his head and said some things because I'm actually not on quite the pushover. I'm not really sure. He just said he needed to be off on his own, which is fine. I want him to be on his own, but he's not. He's not working. He's not going to school.

He just sits at his dad's house and has no relationship with me or anyone else in my family. I'm sorry. Thank you. It's hard. Yeah. So, Misty, do you feel like the dad is enabling him to just sit around all day and putting thoughts in his head about you?

Yeah. Yes and no. It's actually his grandma that's the enabler. His dad never had a job until our son was 17 years old because his mom would pay for everything she paid all the child support she paid i mean my son would make a christmas list and she'd buy every single thing on it um he still lives with her oh wait you're not supposed to do that 40 years I'm asking for a friend. We had a lot of problems when we were together, the short time we were together. He had pulled me away from all my friends and family very emotionally.

So how long ago did you all divorce? Oh, he was, our son was one. Okay, so you raised this boy all his life. Yeah. And so you've spoken into his life a lot more than anybody else has. He's got that down inside of him. Yes. And he'll come back around. Thank you.

Yeah, you've made more deposits in his bank than they have in who he is. There's more of you in him. And so he's going to come back around um there's nothing wrong with either answer here there's not a you don't have a moral thing you have to do or certainly don't have a legal thing you could simply cut you could simply let him know until you and i are in a relationship i am not going to pay your loan okay you could tell him that and then just cut the cut the draft off block it and don't let him take money out of your account and then it'll just sit there and build until his grandmother pays it or he pays it or whatever right yeah and there's nothing wrong with that at all nothing wrong with that okay

uh it really he probably doesn't care because he's probably not going to do anything about it right now exactly he'll just roll his eyes and go mom's trying to you know jerk my chain okay nothing wrong with that the other option of course is just to say you know what it's 12 000 bucks screw it yeah i'm just gonna pay it i'm gonna write a check be done with it and um and i'm never to bring it up again. If you're going to pay it, you cannot use it as leverage ever. You just got to let it go. That's an act of forgiveness on your part.

And you're just going to go, not like you're trying to buy his love or you're trying to win him back. You're never going to bring it up again. It's not leverage. If you're going to use it as leverage, don't pay it off okay okay because that's not good for you sit and stew over that okay so that's just old man ramsey talking okay so that's just it has nothing to do with money is just let him go let them let the whole thing go and when he comes back around someday he'll go oh mom whatever happened with that loan? I just paid it.

Don't worry about it. Yeah. And just don't bring it up. Because you don't want to feed into this narrative of you being manipulative. Mm-hmm. Okay. And honestly, I'm a little softer in my old age. I probably would do option two.

Yeah. Is what Dave Ramsey would probably do today i'd probably just pay it not because i'm trying to win their love back not because i'm trying to get attention because i'm not going to bring it up but because if you're going to do all that you're going to be disappointed because he's not going to come back around he's not going to like you because of this he's not going to none of that's going to work? But just to let him go, set him free, and then he'll swoop back around. And every day that he doesn't is painful for you, but he'll come back around, Mom. Thank you.

And I think you paying this off is going to set you free in an even bigger way. Because I think every time you pay it, you get mad again. Yes, I do. I would. It would piss me off like every month for a few minutes i gotta reset my brain now i'm gonna kill the love i'm gonna kill him i'm gonna kill his father i'm gonna kill my ex-mother-in-law i'm gonna kill all of them okay now i gotta have my coffee and i'm going to work okay oh you did that did you okay this is worth $12,000 to not have this conversation in your head every month.

Yeah, it is. Yeah. You're right. Set yourself free. And, Misty, you still have access to all these accounts? You were saying something earlier about... No, he... No, I do not.

She can't get it. But, well, how are you going to pay it off? That's what I'm wondering. I don't know. I mean... You still have to contact the student loan servicer. Why don't you call them and just say, I know you can't tell me the amount, but I need you to draft the amount out of my account this month to pay it off. Can you do that?

Okay, I'll try that. And then make sure there's $15,000 laying in there so that you're ready. Man, that's a hard one. Yeah, that's so hard. Yeah. This is The Ramsey Show. You've got a lot on your plate, a job, your home, your marriage, and your growing family. While you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, for your health care. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org

slash budget to see if it's right for you. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a Ramsey trusted provider. Well, sadly, one of the things you hear on this show every so often is stress and anxiety, all kinds of different things, certainly around money. But people have experienced all kinds of anxiety and loneliness and stress lately. Here's the good news. Our own Ramsey personality, Dr. John Deloney, has a brand new book out. I am so excited. We actually got them in today. I got the whole one of them in my hands.

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All for just pre-ordering a $20 book. Oh, and you get the e-book and the audio book as well. Read by the author. So check it out. Own your past. Change Your Future. It's on pre-sale right now, $20 at ramseysolutions.com. So George, the scams are up. I'm seeing on this article that our producer James handed us on the dad blame student loans. The Federal Trade Commission's warning about an increase in these scams. Yeah, this is bad. And of course, they're preying on people's confusion and people are getting

stressed about student loan pause being unpaused. And so they're saying the federal government put federal student loan payments on pause during the pandemic. With that pause expiring, people are anxious and the scammers are swooping in. They're promising to reduce payments or even cancel student debt entirely if you give them your credit card number. They use social media, text messages, phone calls, and the scripts are convincing. Some of them even sound like they're coming from the government. I love this. Hi, this is Shea with SLA Servicing.

We're in the process of pre-enrollment for all loan forgiveness. It's going to be a bit more challenging as deadlines come, and so we'll need your credit card to be able to get this done. You'd be a great scammer, Dave. I'll tell you what. This is crazy. You've got to put the radio voice on to do that, right? There we go.

Oh, man, that's so scummy. So I want to give people some quick tips and tools to avoid getting scammed. Number one, if a student loan servicer calls you, it's probably a scam. Generally, these companies are not calling you. They've got better things to do. So some red flags you've got to look out for if they're asking you for your username and password, if they're asking you for banking information. If you've already given your payment information, call your bank, put a hold on that account immediately

so they can't get any more money. You can report all of this stuff to the Federal Trade Commission, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, your state attorney general. Don't fall for this stuff. Yeah. Let me just tell you it's a good rule here's a basic thing on scam avoidance and you've done a lot of this stuff on fine print if someone that you already are doing business with like you have a student loan you

have a credit card you shouldn't but you have a debit card you have a credit card you have a you you have an irs account and they call you up and say, this is Joe with the IRS. To verify that we're talking with the right person, would you please give us your Social Security number? The IRS never does that. They already have your Social Security number. They don't need to ask you. Your bank does not.

We need to verify. Would you give us your credit card number? No, I won't. You should already have that if I already am doing business with. We need to verify your bank information when we're with Sallie Mae. No, you should probably already have my bank information, and so they'll never ask that kind of stuff. So the red flag should go off.

The siren should go off. The beep, beep, beep, beep, beep, beep ought to be going off when you hear that stuff. I just don't answer phone calls these days. They're usually no good. But here's what you can do. I got a call from Russia telling me about about my stoop my extended warranty car's extended warranty dave yeah i don't think they're worried about that right now they got bigger problems but here's the thing i said russia oh yeah on my phone i got that too are we getting

the same call yeah wow well here's a good rule of thumb a lot of these places can spoof the exact number they can spoof the sheriff's office They can spoof the sheriff's office. They can spoof the IRS number. So even if you get a call and it's the same number as the IRS, go to the IRS website, check the phone number, and you call them back because that way you avoid running into that situation. And so, like, we had a couple of people get scammed or almost get scammed or whatever here. That was a call from the local sheriff's department. And when you called their number back that they left, it was the exact recording. They had taken a recording from the sheriff's department and put it over there with the same phone tree and everything. But if you call the sheriff's department, they would say, oh, no, there's a scam going around.

Don't talk to those people. Don't go over there and pay parking fees that you don't know. Don't go over there. No, there's not an arrest warrant out for you you know that kind of stuff so you gotta you gotta hang up and call back directly not the number the scammer gives you but the actual number that you have and then you'll find out oh that really wasn't a real person that was shea is in somewhere in some Slavic company country or whatever. Oh, my gosh. Don't fall for this stuff, guys.

And I know people are stressed. And when you're stressed, it can get you to be panicked and you start making poor decisions. Well, there's two times people get scammed. Okay. When you're afraid and desperate and when you're greedy. Like if you think you're going to get something free and easy, people fall for that one, too. And so student loan forgiveness is a free and easy people fall for that one too and so student loan forgiveness is a free and easy thing yeah they go oh we'll forgive your student loans but you need to send us two hundred

dollars to verify yeah that's no or just i just need your credit card number so we can get the account set up to get this going and i'm like oh if you're gonna forgive it why do you need the number and yes if it seems too good to be true it's too too good to be true. It is! Don't do it. There you go. Good stuff. That's happening. It's happening out there right this second. And it usually comes from IRS stuff, or the other ones that come up are people collecting money for charities for war-torn countries and all kinds of stuff.

Yeah. It's a problem. Mark is with us. Mark is in Houston, Texas. Hey, Mark, how are you? Good. How are y'all doing? Better than I deserve. What's up i i got a question appreciate y'all taking my call sure um so i have a 600,000

20-year term life insurance policy i have a seven-year-old son who lives with me and my wife, my current wife. His mom is divorced, and if I pass, he goes with her. So my question is, how should I spit up, or should I spit up, my life insurance policy? How do I take care of my wife if I pass and my son? Does that make sense? Yeah. Well, you can have the beneficiary be a percentage, and you can say 50% to your current wife, 50% to your son.

Okay? Now, I personally, if I were in your situation, would not leave the money to your son with your ex-wife in charge. That just brings all kinds of bad medicine to me so i would set up a uh a trust a family trust that is formed upon your death and the money is funded into that trust so the beneficiary for your son is son's family trust whatever you name it right you name it okay give a little name and you set up a little trust and it's formed upon your death the trust never happens if you don't die until you know if you don't die while he's a minor okay if it when he's a grown person you'll just leave him the money if

you want to or not but uh when he's a kid you're going to leave some money for his to care for him and you could even you can set whoever you want up as the trustee to manage it. Your brother, your mother, your current wife. Whoever you want to leave to make sure the money is distributed to your child to take care of your child out of the trust. But I would not just leave $300,000

to the ex-wife to manage. Yeah, I wouldn't either. Yeah, that just sounds like a bad idea. And if you leave it to the kid, she's going to be managing it because she's the guardian. So don't leave it to the kid. Leave it to a trust to take care of the kid, and the trustee makes sure that money is managed according to the trust. And so you can set it up to be however you want to do it.

You can do 50-50, 60-40. You can say 400,000, 200,000. You can call it whatever you want to do. I don't care whichever way you want to do it. But a beneficiary, a primary beneficiary can be more than one entity by percentages or by amounts. And for a minor child, I recommend family trust. Yeah, good reminder there that putting a 7-year-old as the beneficiary isn't going to work because they can't accept that money at seven years old you have to be it goes into their name but the guardian would be in charge of yeah and that would be the x yikes We'll be right back. George Campbell Ramsey personality is my co-host today.

Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. We're glad you are here. David is in jacksonville hi david welcome to the ramsey show hey dave and uh george how y'all doing thanks for taking my call sure what's up i got a question i wanted to see what you would do if you were in my shoes uh currently um i have a 34 000 student loan. We're following the baby steps. I call it baby step 2.5, but actually we're in 3. I have about $11,000 in emergency fund,

and I'm on a loan forgiveness program that after 10 years for public service for the state, the last of the loan is forgiven, so that would give me about $17,000. I only have five more years to pay on it. Should I continue making the minimal payments on that and just have the last of it forgiven or be able, if I have the ability now, to go ahead and pay the thing and get it paid off here probably the next year or two? The program that you're engaged in has proven to be an absolute scam. Here's the actual numbers on the public service loan forgiveness program

so far 726,811 people have applied for what you're applying for 700,000 people to date 8,000 have been granted it. One percent. Okay, that's a no-brainer. Yeah, I mean, if this was happening six months from now and you were about done with it, I'd say, all right, let's ride it out. But five years from now, that's a long time when you could pay this thing off in a year and move on with your life

and be in a totally different place financially instead of hoping and putting your hope in someone else's control. Yeah, this is one of the times that the government completely lied. Has it happened before, Dave? You said one of the times. I said one of the times. Wow.

One of the many times. Okay, there we go. Of course they've lied. But this is a complete and utter scam. There are three types of student loan forgiveness, and this is the type that people sign up for and that has not worked. Now, student loan forgiveness in the event of disability is actually occurring. Student loan forgiveness when you take like a tech school and the tech school scams you and closes down truck driving school or whatever, that loan is forgiven.

Those are forgiven. And when you loan is forgiven those are forgiven and when you die student loans are forgiven but uh and so those types of loans have that that that type of forgiveness program has actually worked but the uh public student loan forgiveness program is an abs public service loan forgiveness program is an absolute horrid scam 1.16% of the people who have signed up for it and counted on it have actually gotten it. It's a 99% fail rate. Wow. Yeah, we did a deep dive on that very specific topic on the Borrowed Future podcast in episode six, Don't Bank on Student Loan Forgiveness. It's about 40 minutes long, and it's worth the listen, David, if you need some encouragement to go ahead and pay these loans off and move on with your life.

Yeah, Borrowed Future is the documentary that we put out on student loans. But we also, before we did that, put out an eight-series podcast that you were the host of. Yeah, it was eye-opening. Yeah, so Borrowed Future, if you want to learn about what's really going on in the student loan world, it's really a dark, dark world. Yeah. I mean, it's nasty. There's about a thousand villains you can point at in the story too many too many a good story needs one maybe two villains but this

one has everything from congress to banks to parents and guidance counselors and student loan companies i could keep going colleges i mean universities yeah i mean it's just like there's a villain on every corner brayden is in in Phoenix, Arizona. Hi, Brayden. How are you? Hey, George. Hey, Dave. I'm good. How are you guys?

Better than we deserve, man. What's up? Awesome. Hallelujah. So I'm in this stage of my life where I've never been this busy. A lot of moving parts. My fiance and I are getting married a month from today. Yay!

Yeah, thank you so much. Yeah, I'm so excited. We're excited. We come from a little bit different financial background. We're both new in our careers. We both have student loans. She's currently in a car lease that's up in December. We don't live together.

Obviously, we're waiting until we get married. And I just finished the Total Moneymaker. I'm excited about, or makeover. Sorry, I'm a little nervous. Okay, you're fine. You're doing good. We just, I just, I'm excited. I'm fired up.

I just don't know how to move about setting the right kind of money aside for a car purchase that she's going to need, that we're going to need to make later this year, and as well as how to get started in this plan together and how to get us both on the same page with the aspect of being excited and ready to make sacrifices if that makes sense have you talked about all this yeah yeah yeah we talked about it but do you feel like you're philosophically aligned but the details aren't, is all you're missing?

Yeah, yeah. That wasn't convincing. For example, I guess, for example, you know, I tell her, let's sell some stuff, save and hibernate and get rid of our quality debt. And she's thinking, let's do a road trip in this month and let's go out and put some money aside. This is the definition of not being aligned philosophically. I mean, yeah, I guess you're right. I guess the fact that she's in a car lease kind of is a little bit different than I would do.

Well, not that. It's not about where you are. It's about what you're going to do about where you are. You want to sell some stuff, get out of debt, pile up some cash to buy her a car. She wants to go on a road trip. So this is what we're going to do about where we are. Where we are is one thing. But what we're going to do about it is what's scary.

And you are on polar opposites on that. Are you guys doing any pre-marriage counseling? We are. We are. We're almost towards the end of it right now, but I guess we haven't covered finances yet. Yeah, you need to. Well, Brayden, I want to do you a favor. I want to give you a wedding gift. I'm going to give you one year to Ramsey Plus, and it will give you access to all of the videos in Financial Peace University.

Both of you. And you have to do it together. That's the promise you're going to make me. You're going to build your first budget together with EveryDollarPlus, and you're going to put all your income, all the expenses, and we're going to get some goals on paper about what we're going to do as a couple, we, with both of our money, once we combine our income. So if that doesn't get on the same page, there's going to be some deeper issues here, maybe some more counseling. But I think if you get her excited about what the future could look like without debt, maybe she'd be okay putting off the road trip until we pay off all our loans we use that to celebrate yeah the answer is not read the total money makeover hey let's sell your car no that dude that doesn't usually go well so um instead

we go all right let's look at our future together and what's the best way to get there and so you're if you go if you're getting good pre in-depth pre-marriage counseling they're going to go there and they should have already before one month from the wedding honestly but um dig into that And so if you're getting good in-depth pre-marriage counseling, they're going to go there, and they should have already before one month from the wedding, honestly. But dig into that. You guys start talking about this because here's the thing, and here's how you can couch it to her. The number one cause of divorce in North America today, the number one thing couples fight about, money and money problems. If you get on the same page about money right now,

you're going to save yourself heartache in the area that is the number one problem in marriage. That's pretty cool. If you can get rid of the number one problem, then all that's left are the other ones. Yes, sir. That's a big deal. I mean, if the number one way that you know that that whatever that you did something you always just go do the number you get get that one out of the way so you guys get on the same page take the take the uh subscription and the two of you start watching some of the videos instead of binge watching netflix and um start going through financial

peace university if you can find a church in your area that's teaching it get in the class and you can go back through it as many times as you want during this year. We're going to give you a one-year subscription as a wedding gift. But please don't do it by yourself and then go in and try to explain it to her. That's going to get you murdered. Dave says is two of the worst words in a marriage. Yeah, and I just learned this, and so I'm going to tell you where you're stupid. That's not a good plan, okay?

No, no, no, no. Get her with you. Make this her idea and your idea, and the two of us together are going to tackle the world. You need a shared vision. You need common language, and that's why Financial Peace University is so powerful. It's not magical content. It just gets you on the same page where you can talk about things and understand each other and then do some math and go, here's what we're spending in interest that we're throwing away towards lenders

that could have gone towards the next road trip. So use all of those things in combination and see if that has her turn a corner. Yeah. And don't bring us up again until you're watching the stuff. Don't say what Dave said. I read this book. That's just suicide. It doesn't work.

So congratulations. We're excited for you, man. Kelly's going to pick up. We're going to get you guys signed up for this as our gift. សូវាប់ពីបានប់ពីបានប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពីប់ពី Our scripture today, 1 Peter 3.15, But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.

Jim Rohn says, If you say something and back it up with your actions you will provide the proof for people who are listening to you and they will much more willingly follow your lead amen open phones this hour george camel ramsey personality is my co-host you jump in we'll talk about your life and your money amber is with us in san francisco hi amber how are you hi i'm good how are you better than we deserve what's up um okay so i had a question that's a little bit complicated you would have to know a little bit of my background to like know where i'm coming from basically i'm getting kicked out of my grandmother's house in a month, not because of anything I've done.

I pay rent and everything. She just wants her own house to herself. You know, my parents moved up to Idaho, all the way up in Bonner, Terry, in November. And, like, our relationship is not there. Basically, when I was 12, they put me to work full-time for their company, construction company, for absolutely no pay up until I was 20. And I got injured, and I said, that's it, I'm done. Like, I'm an adult. They knew that the expenses weren't going to go under their names because I was an adult. They knew that the expenses weren't going to go under their names because I was an adult.

So I racked up medical bills, trying to get, basically trying to get better. So I have two jobs right now, which is in and out in Starbucks. And I just got injured on kickoff. And like, I have all of this financial pressure on me right now and i'm not exactly sure what to do how old are you i've i'm 23 now okay what part of san francisco are you in uh i am on the east part of san francisco okay living with my grandmother yeah but for only for one more month and you work at starbucks and and in and out starbucks and where in and out burger in and out yes okay all right all right so um my question was because i bought two of your books it was like how can i basically how can i do more and save more with the situation that i have right now well um this sounds very lonely to me

and and a little scary you're probably pretty scared aren't you yeah very much so okay well a couple of observations that are um obvious but i'm just going to say them out loud so we're all dealing with the same hand of cards here one you don't make much money because your jobs suck two uh you live in one of the most expensive cities in the world. Is that fair? Correct. Okay. Yeah, that's very fair. So one of the things I'm going to want to do mathematically is to help adjust that some way or another.

Do you have relatives that are friendly, not that you live with, but that would give you some emotional support in any other area of the country? I do have two brothers living here, but one of them is actually going to go move up near my parents and take a job there. I refuse to move up north because, like, at 23, I received my first paycheck ever. I'm not asking you to move in with your parents. It wasn't what I was suggesting. I'm just trying to get some emotional support around you

and somebody to walk with you because what you're describing to me is terrifying. Yeah. I could. The only closest thing that I have right now is my uncle that lives here. And they all live there your brother your uncle your grandmother yes my brother my uncle and my grandmother and your parents and your other brother moved

to idaho okay all right correct well here's what i would tell you to do you need community um and if um if you were my long lost niece and you called me, I would say let's get you into a good church where you can get some people around you that love you and walk with you and get some quality humans in your life that are walking with you because you're processing all the pain of your childhood and the distrust of your parents. But number one, you need a great career track. Right now you're trying to just survive as a barista, and barista jobs are not set up for survival. They're set up for supplement at best.

And so we need to get a good job that makes a lot more money. And so let's start talking about new career, new job, full-time jobs that aren't fast food, as soon as possible, making more money. And then obviously you've got to look for a place to live, don't you? Yes, I've been looking out of state and just having friends feel like, hey, can you loan me some money? That way I can make it and I'll pay you back when I'm actually set up.

Because California, I can't do it. Okay, so you're thinking of leaving California. Correct. It's too expensive. Do you have any money at all? I have about $1,500 in savings right now. Okay, good, good. Okay, because you can go work those two types of jobs in other cities in America,

and it changes your living situation severely. But, you know, being a nanny, walking dogs, you'll make more than you're making now. Okay. You know, doing anything that moves the needle on the money piece that's legal and moral and doesn't put you in harm's way is what we've got to look at. And, yeah, I'm really up for you leaving San Fran just because it's so stinking expensive, and it doesn't sound like you've got an emotional support system there anyway. And so I'm going to pick out a city, and I'm going to move and make it happen.

And no, you don't need to borrow a bunch of money, and you don't even need to take a whole bunch of personal items with you. You got a car? No, I do not. Do you have a driver's license? Unfortunately, I do not. Okay. Why? I had left their household back in November, October.

It was kind of a rough situation, so I said, I'm going to go make it on my own because I have nothing to my name. So have you ever driven a car? I have. My brother and I have practiced, but I have been out with an injury, and I've been working all the time. I've been just working, putting my head down and working nonstop. I'm so sorry, Amber. Well, it sounds like there's a lot of trauma that you haven't dealt with that I think needs to be a part of this equation as you move and get new jobs. I think there's a lot here that you've got to unpack with a great counselor,

a great therapist to walk with you. And I also want to send you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, From Paycheck to Purpose, to help you get on that path to a career that you love, making great money doing it so that we can turn the situation around. So I'll have Kelly pick up. So if I'm you, I'm getting out a yellow pad, and I'm going to start making some survival lists. What are the three things I have to do right now i've got to get my income up i've got to get a driver's license and i've got to find a place to live those are survival things that you need to

do right now this week you need to go get your driver take your driver's license test and get passed, and then you need to be working like a maniac. Anything you can do, 70, 80 hours a week for this month that you've got with your grandmother. Go crazy. And if you can get her to give you one more month just to say, I've got to pile up some cash so I can get out of here, grandmother. I get it. I know you want the house. I know you want me out of here.

I'm out of here. But if you'll give me one more month, I can save up the money to get me a little car and i'm gonna load it up and i'm gonna head east out of california and go find a less expensive place to live than san francisco and start your life and start a career and start some education and get some counseling for all the things that have happened to you and start the healing process, plug into a good church along the way. But right now, you need a driver's license, you need a car, you need six jobs. Right now. So you can pile up as much money to solve this as fast as possible.

You need sustainability. That's what we're after. I'm so sorry, kiddo. You call back if we can help you. We'll try. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace,

and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Rachel Cruz, co-host on The Ramsey Show. If you want to do your debt-free scream live on the show, visit ramseysolutions.com slash debt-free scream. We'd love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story. That's ramseysolutions.com slash debt-free scream.