The Ramsey Show - App - Student Loans Won't Die Until You Do (Hour 1)

Episode Date: February 12, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is gone, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for joining us. It's a free call at 888-825-5225. Chris starts off this hour in San Antonio. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Chris. Thank you, Dave.

It's a pleasure to talk with you. You've really helped me and my family out, and we're currently in four, five, and six. Cool. My question is, I'm trying to help my mother through retirement planning, and we've been looking at a cash and carry annuity to help her protect her nest egg. She is 64. She's a widow. She's a self-employed home daycare worker.

She has about $25K in investments, and she makes currently about $3,750 a month doing that with my dead stepdad's retirement benefit from the Air Force. Okay, cool. Very good. Well, it sounds like she's in decent shape. That's good. Very well done. Well, the only kind of annuity that we ever recommend is a variable annuity. Now, I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say cash and carry. That sounds like a brand name with one of the companies. There's two types. There's fixed annuities and variable annuities. Fixed annuities are basically a savings account at CD rates with your insurance company.

Dumb, dumb, dumb. Never do that. Okay? Okay. Variable annuities are mutual funds inside of an annuity. So the type of mutual funds we talk about, for example, growth, growth in income, aggressive growth in international, you could buy those four mutual funds with that $200,000 at 64 years old. I'm 57. I am currently buying those four types four mutual funds with that $200,000 at 64 years old. I'm 57.

I am currently buying those four types of mutual funds and, you know, and live off of the income that they create or let them just grow. Either one would be fine. Okay. And you would get a good and you'd get a good rate of return. If you are worried and afraid about it, you can buy those same four funds for an extra fee inside of an annuity. That's called a variable annuity. The variable annuity basically gives you three or four things that are good. One is that the principal is protected, meaning if you put $200,000 in there and the market goes down and you die, your kids would get $200,000.

And if you leave it in there a certain period of time and the market goes down, with most of them seven years, they will guarantee the $200,000. So you'll never have less than that, so you have principal protection. The second thing is they will guarantee you a rate of return typically around four or five percent as a floor if you're investing in good mutual funds the floor would you know the average would be more like 10 to 12 so it's a fairly safe bet on the part of the insurance company the uh um in both cases that the the that they're going to not going to lose any principal if you leave it alone a while, because if you put it in those four types and leave it alone five years,

it's a 99% chance you're going to make money, you know, and you're going to make more than 5%. So they're giving you guarantees, but statistically they just don't mean much. But they make you feel better, okay? And then the last thing is that you can name a beneficiary on the life. And I mean, on the it's a life insurance product, technically. So you name a beneficiary on it and it passes like life insurance proceeds would outside of probate. So it's not taxed by the state of Texas. If if Texas has a probate tax and I don't even know if they do the federal, it doesn't help with federal.

And she's not subject to federal anyway with her estate size. So basically it gives her a peace of mind, and she's paying an extra fee for that. Okay, that makes sense. We're just a little worried since all she has is the $225K in investments. She does not have a fully funded emergency fund yet. Well, she needs to do that. Is her home paid for?

It is, but she still has about $45,000 left in debt. Okay, she needs to pay that off. And if she uses some of this money for that, that's fine. But she needs to be debt-free, completely debt-free, and have her emergency fund in place before she starts investing and certainly before she starts investing in a variable annuity but if you touch it if you touch base with one of our smart investor pros uh sit down with them on she does you do with her however you want to do it um you know click smart investor and they'll

drop down a list of them in your area you know how that works and you from the list, or she picks from the list who she wants to meet with and sit down with them. They can walk you through what the variable annuity is and what the extra fees are on it for that. Variable annuities are not a bad thing in this situation. Now, they are pitched inappropriately quite often, and they're pitched inappropriately by people trying to make a commission. Inappropriately meaning that you still haven't paid off your house,

you still haven't gotten out of debt, but I'm going to put all my money over here and lock it into this thing. No, no, that's not a good plan. And by the way, I'm not sure i'd put all 200 000 in there anyway i might do some in that and some just in mutual funds because again if she's willing to leave the money alone a while it's you know she's not really getting statistically much of a guarantee because of the the number of times that that would actually have to pay off is almost zero. Nicole is with us in Atlanta.

Hi, Nicole. How are you? I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? I wanted to ask a quick question about two different construction loan options that my husband and I are looking at.

We've got some cash to pay down to purchase some land, and we're looking at a couple of different loan options to build our house. And so one would be a one-time close, where we would close and lock in the interest rate up front, build the house, and then have the mortgage at the end. The other is an option from a local bank where they offer a two-time close. You close on the construction loan, and then at the end of the construction, you close again, and it converts into a mortgage. Correct. I've been given conflicting opinions about it, and I really just am not sure which one would be a better option, so I thought I'd come to you. Typically, if you do the second version, the bank will require that the mortgage that's going to pay them off

is already pre-approved and furnishes you what's called a takeout letter, which would mean that you have the mortgage lined up to take out that construction loan once the house is completed. That's the normal way of doing it, the way that it's most often done. The prepackaged way, like you're talking about, there's nothing wrong with. The other way, there's nothing wrong with. The way I would look at it, if I were in your shoes, is just which has the least fees. Okay. All right.

I was thinking that would probably be the better option, but I wasn't sure if there was any other factors that maybe we weren't considering. Typically, if you package it together, you reduce your fees. You should reduce your fees if they've got that. But if they're presenting this prepackaged thing and overcharging for it, and you come out better with a double closing, it's no big deal. The second option is the traditional way of doing it, but a few people have started packaging it together in the last decade or so,

and there's nothing wrong with that. Either way is fine. I'm just looking at which is the cheapest way and which is the least hassle. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. I love talking about companies that know how to do business right. You've heard of Grip6 belts, right? Well, if you haven't, it's the only belt you can get online with no holes, no flap, and no bulk. I'm talking weightless. And the buckles come in really cool designs and are interchangeable.

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Hey, John, welcome to The Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, how's it going? Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? Hey, I've got a quick retirement question. I understand that I need to invest 15% of my income for retirement. Right now, I've just gotten the ability to get into my company's 401k program, and they have a 6% match. They also have a Roth or a traditional option good so so i wanted to

know your opinion on which of those options i should choose and then what do i do with the excess above the match should i put that into a traditional ira or roth ira Okay, let's walk it through. The best thing you can get is tax-free growth with a match. The next best thing you can get is tax-free growth. Tax-free growth is called a Roth, all right? So we're going to do the tax-free growth with your 401k with a match in the Roth for sure. Now, the matching portion portion the portion your company puts in is not roth it's traditional you can convert it to roth at the end of the year but you'll pay taxes on that amount when you do it'll increase your tax bill okay which i do that okay okay we match here and of course i match myself which is kind of a mathematical weirdness. But anyway, like our guys here, they'll convert at the end of the year the portion that the company matched if they're doing Roth,

and that'll increase your tax bill a little bit. The income taxes on that amount of money is what it amounts to. There's no penalty. Anyway, that portion is 100%. We're doing that. Take the 6% with the match as a Roth at your company. Pick good growth stock mutual funds and we recommend and have always invested in i personally invest in four types i spread it evenly across the four types growth growth and income aggressive

growth and international look for those four types of funds and look for stuff with good track records and long track records. So not something that's been open for a year or three years, but something that's been open for 20 years or 30 years and that kind of a thing as far as the mutual funds inside your 401k that you have to select from. Do you know which companies are represented in your 401k? Just Vanguard. It's all Vanguard?

Yeah. Okay. All right. Well well they've got some good funds all families have good funds and bad funds so don't just automatically say oh everything vanguard's got's awesome i personally buy some vanguard okay i've got some in my own portfolio but there's some of their funds don't perform up to par so look at them and pick them out on those four categories. Now, once we've done that, back to your question, then do we continue to get to 15% in your 401k Roth, or do you do an individual Roth out to the side? If you've got good mutual funds in your 401k, I would just continue in the 401k for convenience. If the mutual funds are substandard, we're going to take them anyway for that first 6%, right?

Because that 6% is a 100% rate of return. And then if the mutual fund underperforms, we still made 100 and something. So definitely doing that, okay? But past that, I'm going to continue in your 401k only to the extent that those mutual funds are good. They're medium to good. If they're poor funds, then past your match, step out and do a Roth, a traditional Roth. I mean, a regular Roth IRA, an individual Roth IRA for you and your wife, which is $5,500 unless you're over 50 years old. With $6,500 a year, you can do each there.

So always do the match first. Tax-free match is the best. Tax-free growth with a match is the best. Even a traditional 401K is better than Roth if it has a match up to the match. Mathematically, you're going to come out because you got 100% return before you started, right? So you can pay some taxes out of that and come out uh but but you don't have to worry about that in your situation so you know have you looked at your funds uh that are available through vanguard are they good strong rates of return over long periods of time i have not had the chance to

investigate all of them yeah okay all right if they, you'll just stick in your 401K and load it up. Are you married? No, I'm not. Okay. Yeah, we just load your 401K up. You can easily get up to 15% there unless your company has 401K problems where you're a high-capacity earner and they're limiting your contributions. If they do that, then you're going to have to step out and do the Roth as well.

But if you've got good options, I'm just going to start maxing that. The first 15% is all going to go in there. Get the match, and it's all going to be in a Roth. The tax-free growth is incredible. So, hey, good question, John. Get after it, man. That's how millionaires are made, investing in their 401K over long periods of time. Rick is with us in Portland, Oregon.

Hi, Rick. How are you? I'm doing well, Dave. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my wife and I, we actually just finished up Baby Step 2. Thank you for your guidance. And so we're in Baby Step 3, and we've got about four months of emergency fund left built up,

and we just found out that we're pregnant. Yay! Oh, yes. We're very, very excited. It's actually going to be our first child. Go ahead. Yeah. So my question is, well, originally the plan was to build up to about four or six months

and start contributing to retirement as your guidance is. Now with the baby on the way, our HSA accounts are kind of low on the money side because we haven't been contributing to them until just recently. So my question is, should we build up maybe a little bit extra above the six months just to make sure everything is okay with my wife and the baby and then start building the retirement or start going towards retirement. It'll be about maybe an extra month. Yeah. I'm going to put enough in the HSA to make sure I take care of your portion

of the labor and delivery because that's tax-free money that you're paying that with. It's pre-tax money that you're paying your medical bills with. So you want to make sure the HSA has at least enough in it to cover your out-of-pocket for the labor and delivery. Okay? That's going to be part of your plan. And then, yeah, just get it to, if you were going to do four to six months, I'd do six months and then make sure your HSA is fat and sassy. Past that, you can go ahead and start your 15% because you're not going to have anything past a six-month plus an HSA that's going to hit you that hard. What is your coverage in the event there was complications?

Is your coverage 100% after deductible on your HSA or 80-20? 90. 90. Okay. So you can calculate that out and go up $100,000, that's $10,000 out of pocket. And probably labor and delivery is 100%. Okay. I'm guessing.

Look at it and see. Normal labor and delivery without complications. So if there was a big-time, not a big-time complication, a medium complication, a big-time complication is a million-dollar NICU stay, but a medium complication of some kind, $100,000, that'd be a pretty good event, right? That's $10,000 out of your pocket, and normal labor and delivery is paid 100% probably. Your six months and your HSA would cover that. If that all happened, I'm probably stopping my retirement temporarily if something like that hits me

because you're going to want to rebuild your emergency fund. But to be ready for baby and be calm and financially peaceful, six months plus some fatness to the HSA will get you there. Does that make sense? Yes. And then I guess I have a follow-up question with that. So with us starting our 15% towards retirement, we'll have some extra money built up, and that was going to go pay off the

mortgage. Now I want to throw it into a 529. However, I can't start that until the baby's born. So should I just hang on to that money and then throw it into one lump sum once the baby's born? What's your household income? Before taxes, about $200,000. Oh, okay. I thought, man, you've got money flying everywhere for a second you do good for you what do you do for a living uh i'm an engineer good for you well done good okay um yeah you're 529 you can put up to most of them are 10 grand a year that you can max and so you know if you want to just say i'm going to plop 10 grand in as baby's birth uh announcement hits with the and you can get the social security number which you want to just say, I'm going to plop $10,000 in as baby's birth announcement hits, and you can get the Social Security number, which you have to wait to do that, as you pointed out,

that's okay if you want to. The good news is five years from now, all of this is going to be rocking. You're going to be pounding on this house. College is going to be rocking. Retirement's going to be rocking. You know, you're making good money. You're actually being intentional with money. You're going to be wealthy

your kid's going to be great man just stay on B just keep aiming keep aiming keep aiming keep being intentional you're going to work your way through these things good job

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Our question of the day, blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee, which means if you mismeasure, if you screw up, if you pick the wrong color, they will remake your window blinds free. You get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. Use the promo code RAMSY to get the best deal. Rules and restrictions apply. Juan's in New York. He says, I've been engaged for

three months and we're getting married in august i want us to be on the same page financially when's a good time for me to introduce her to financial peace university uh you're late you should have already introduced her on the second date i'm kidding but yeah not much um listen the number one cause of divorce in north North America today is fights over money and money stress and money problems. If it's the number one cause of divorce, whatever it is, you address that in pre-marriage counseling. Deeply, deeply address it.

Because, you know, if you're on completely different pages with money that tells us if you don't get on the same page prior to getting married you are going to struggle in your marriage a hundred percent of the time all of us struggle in our marriages but i mean you're going to have real struggles okay i haven't met a lady one time she, we've been married 32 years and we've never had a fight. And I said, it's because you lie. Of course you've had a fight in 32 years. You've been married 32 minutes, you've had a fight. Shut up.

I don't believe that stuff. But I'll tell you what, a lot of pastors and a lot of friends and a lot of marriage counselors are using Financial Peace University, the nine-week you know course at your church to as a part of a pre-marriage counseling because it forces you to talk through everything investing your your views on wealth your views on doctrine regarding wealth your views on paying bills your views on buying stuff you can't afford money you don't have to impress people you don't really like you figure out if you're marrying a princess you figure out if you're marrying a guy who won't work you find these things out when you

start talking about money and these are disturbing things to find out after marriage so we strongly recommend it of course we're big believers but lots of people are doing it as part of a pre-marriage counseling rhythm. Jason's with us in Winston-Salem, speaking of getting married. What's up, Jason? Well, well, Dave. Honored to speak to you. How are you doing?

Better than I deserve, sir. What's up in your world? Well, me and my girlfriend, who is a good Christian woman, the problem with good Christian women, they are all taken. So I've got one, and I want to hold on to her. We are in Financial Peace University together right now, and we've been discussing about getting engaged and married, and I planted the seed of what would Dave think about getting engaged

while we're in baby step two. Absolutely I would. You absolutely. Thank goodness, because she's going to hear this, and if you said no, then when I propose and I'm not done with snowball. No, I've had people call me and say they made their fiancé get out of debt before they'd marry him. I'm not sure I'd marry somebody that made me do that.

I hear you. No, this is, listen, the point is not whether you're both perfect or not the point is whether you're both pointing in the same direction that we are and if you're working together to have the same direction and you can beat the money monster dude you can kill any monster that comes at you but you lock arms to do that you don't turn on each each other. Exactly. And so you can work through it. I don't care. You notice I didn't ask how much debt you've got or how much debt she's got. I didn't ask any of that. The whole thing I'm worried about is you're pointed together at the same direction.

Okay. And, you know, I had a dad call me up one time, and he's like, my daughter wants to marry a guy who's got $100,000 in student loan debt. And I said, good. She should. That wasn't what he thought I was going to say. He thought I was going to say, no, don't let her marry him, you know. you know but no the guy's he's a young dude he's getting after and he's making some money already he was already starting to pay off his debt i mean he was a guy who left the cave

killed at home killed it and drug it back that's who you want your daughter to marry shut up you know and he'll work his way through that as long as they're both on the same page about getting out of debt and so that's that's what we're pushing for and now you don't get to buy a 22 000 ring you know that oh no we've discussed budgets and okay a simple family wedding and you don't need to go overboard but you don't get a headlight when you're broke you get a chip that's right later on you get your headlight okay there you. You can upgrade later. That's Sharon. It'll work. The chip is in the safe.

It's nostalgia. Okay? She's not wearing it on her hand. I can tell you that. So you're in good shape, man. Congratulations. And I hope everything goes great for you. Chad is on the line in Dayton, Ohio. Hey, Chad.

How are you? Pretty good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So my wife and I are going to financial peace university class right now. And finally, after 13 years, we're getting on the same page with our finances. Good. We're in a position where I'm 40 years old. I'm kind of having trouble hearing you. Can you make sure you're talking directly into your phone, please?

Yeah, how is that? Is that better? Much better. Thank you. Okay, sorry about that. So I'm 40 years old, and unfortunately, because of stupidity in my youth, I have over $300,000 in student loan debt. And so we just got done with the retirement and college planning class, and in the steps it says to get to a point where you are debt-free other than your home before you start doing that. So you had $325,000 in debt from college.

Are you a doctor or a lawyer? I was a stupid youth who took out student loans for stuff I didn't need to. And what is your degree in? Operations research. Operations research. And what does that mean you make a year? About $100,000. That's good. What does she make a year? She's a stay-at-home mom. Ouch. Okay. What potential do you have to increase your income? At my job, probably about 2% to 3% per year.

Not a whole lot as far as I get some more experience. I might be able to get a little bit more, but it's not like it's going to be huge chunks of money like last year. What about a side hustle of some kind? That's one of the things that I'm looking at. I'm actually trying to use the skills that I have to start some side business. Unfortunately, the company that I work with. What could she do while she's at home with the kids to make some money?

We're not sure. We're exploring those options now. We figured out, okay. I'm going to send you a copy of Christy Wright's book, Business Boutique, Equipping Women to Make Money Doing What They Love. I don't necessarily want to pull her out of the home, but there's probably some hours in the day she can redeem and turn into money, and you guys need it. Do you own a home?

Well, so we ended up having to combine homes with my mother-in-law because she was not financially prepared for retirement, and we couldn't afford both our bills and her bills and so she has her home but it's mortgaged so it's going to help get that paid off so wait a minute what is her home worth um i think it's somewhere in the neighborhood of about75,000. And that's where you live? Yes. So you don't have a home? No. We are in a Chapter 13. We had to walk away from ours because we couldn't afford both homes.

There's some information that's handy. Okay. How many years have you been in the 13? One. So we've still got another four years to go. Yeah. There you go um this is not going to be easy you don't but not listen you have to clean this mess up because these student loans don't die until you do and so everything you try to counterbalance in your

brain with going over here to do retirement and investing, as tempting as that is, is going to be offset by Sally Mae kicking you in the teeth every time you go take a nap. And so you're going to have to increase income from every possible source. How much other debt other than the $325,000 in student loan do you have that's in the 13? In the 13, we just have our two vehicles. And how much do you owe on your two vehicles? $50,000, I think.

$50,000. $50,000. Did you say $50,500? Yes. Okay. You need to sell both of those and close out your 13 and get you two $1,000 cars. You guys are freaking broke and you're spending like you're in Congress. No wonder you ended up in a 13.

$50,000 in vehicles with $325,000 in student loan debt, and she stays home with the kids while you make $100,000? Dude, there's no way this math works. So you're going to start amputating some crap and doing some 180s all over your life. 180 into work, 180 out of spending, drop the cars, drop the 13, increase the income, and attack these student loans, and it's still going to take you five years. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here. Suzanne is with us in Casper, Wyoming.

Hi, Suzanne. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call today. Sure. What's up? Well, we have a question. My husband and I just finished FPU, and we're on baby step two, and we still have about $29,000 in debt. And my husband has a very small retirement from a previous job that was only worth about $622 currently. And we were wondering if we should, I know there's about a 10% fee on taking that out, but whether we should just take that out to help with our debt snowball or just leave it there. What's your household income? About $100,000 a year.

Okay. It's not a 10% fee. It's a 45% fee. He called the other day, and they told him it was only about a 10% fee to take that out. It's a 10% penalty plus your tax rate. Okay. Plus you pay taxes on it. So it's 45%.

Right. So I'm going to borrow $600 at 45% interest. Okay. Effectively. So just leave it there. Yeah. I mean, in Financial Peace University, we told you not to cash out retirement accounts. Okay. 45 percent interest okay effectively leave it there yeah i mean in financial peace university we told you not to cash out retirement accounts okay yeah to do now it the having said all that

it's 600 bucks so it doesn't matter either way yeah i mean it's not enough money to worry about i mean we're talking about you know you're gonna lose 300 bucks so what it's you know, you're going to lose $300. So what? You know, if you leave it there, so what? It's $600. It doesn't matter. It's, you know, but when you start talking about $6,000 or $60,000 and you start talking about cashing that out to pay off debt, no, I wouldn't do that. On principle, I would not cash this out. It's so stinking small, it truthfully doesn't matter.

Kelly is in Minnesota. Hi, Kelly. How are you? I'm good, Dave. I have a question about bonuses. Currently, I get three bonuses a year, and what I typically do is save 75% of it in my 401K because then it's not taxed as heavy. Is that the right thing to do or should I

just allow the taxes to come out and put it into the Roth K? I would allow the taxes to come out and put it in the Roth 401k because the Roth is growing tax-free. The other is not. And I wouldn't be putting but 15% of your income into retirement total until you have your home paid off. Do you have any debt? The only debt I have is my mortgage, and that's $38,000. Good. Okay. Well, what we teach folks to do is have an emergency fund once you're debt-free, except your home.

And the emergency fund should be three to six months of expenses. That's what we call baby step three. Baby step four is 15% of your income going into retirement. You do that. Meanwhile, you are doing baby step five, which is kids' college. If that applies, you're saving something to that. And then baby step six, which is pay off your home early. So I'm going to limit your retirement contributions to 15% of your income

until you get your home paid off. Now, when it's paid off. I'm already doing more than that, too. Yeah, and so I would back it down to 15% until your home's paid off. What's your household income? I make $31,000 at my regular job. I have about $3,000 to $5,000 that I get moonlighting, and then I also have child support coming in, and that's just under $15,000.

Yeah, I would limit yours to 15% until you get this $38,000 debt paid off. You've done very well, by the way. Thank you. On that income, you have done great. You've got a little bitty small mortgage that you're going to get paid off, and you'd have no debt, and you're calling me about how to invest, and you make $30,000. I mean, that's awesome.

Great. Thank you. Yeah, you're a mathematical rock star. You've been wearing these dollars out. Good job. Really good job. Whitney is with us in Atlanta, Georgia. Hey, Whitney, what's up in your world?

Oh, nothing. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Oh, that's so exciting to talk to you. So I'm 28 years old. I'm roughly five months into my debt snowball. How do I stay motivated to pay off this last $82,000 worth of student loan debt? How bad do you want to be wealthy? Well, that's a good question. Why do you want to be wealthy?

Why do you want to be wealthy? Well, my mom is very bad with finances. She's lost her home and lost everything, basically, her 401K. She's ran fierce. I just don't want to be like that when I get older. You had an anti-mentor. Right. don't want to be like that when i get older so you had an anti-mentor right right but yeah i've seen what i've seen what financial crap looks like i don't want any that's a good that's a good motivation okay why else do you want to be wealthy i just i just don't like the burden of of owning other people um so far like i said why why why is that a burden just like how you said

like you're a slave to the lender yeah i just i don't like being around people that i owe you know you give it your friend's money and you know so i think you're on to something and so i think what i'm looking for here and i'm asking these questions that you already know the answers to and i certainly know the answers to them um but you know you've got to have a big enough why or you run out of steam on any goal yeah that's kind of how i feel right now you need to put you need to make like two little signs or three little signs for your refrigerator one is uh i don't want to be in the same situation my mom was in i watched how it destroyed her life and i don't want to be that way some kind of a little saying

that you give yourself right the anti-mentor sign and then you know you need to think about and put into words what it's going to feel like when you don't have the burden you said remember the that was the word you used when you don't have that yoke around your neck when i don't have this the sense of fear that that gives me instead i've got peace financial peace two words that don't go together right and you know i want to know how that's going to feel and when you keep those signs the positive of how you're going to feel when you get there how awesome it's going to be because you're going to be able to dot, dot, dot, travel the world, give more generously, fund someone's education, maybe yours.

I don't know. I mean, what is it you want to do when you get there? If I handed you a million dollars today and you had no other debt and you could just start enjoying your wealth, what would that look like? And write that stuff down. That's why you're fighting down that's why you're fighting that's what you're fighting for okay if you get a real clear high definition as chris hogan calls it goal of your future you put your dreams in high def then you look at that 82 000 and you're going

you're freaking standing between me and my high-def dream. You're going down. Okay. You see what I'm doing? Okay. You've got to have a reason. Just getting rid of the debt for getting rid of the debt is not enough. Getting rid of the debt so that I don't have that sense of fear and loss like Mom had, that's a good reason. Getting rid of the debt so that I don't have a sense of burden and I can do dot, dot with some wealth that i have that's a good reason and you'll keep fighting for those but you gotta

have something worth fighting for and if you got a big enough why you can run through a brick wall and if you get a big enough why you don't care what people say because people always have an opinion and people are stupid and you can't worry about what people say because most people look good and are broke and you really if you're worried about what people say that means you don't have a big enough why when i went broke that was one of the benefits of me going broke i no longer care what people think it's kind of sad i really don't care at all it's i should care a little bit but i don't care at all my wife is like you should actually no i don, but I don't care at all. My wife is like, you should actually, no, I don't. I just don't care. It's, I mean, listen, I'm doing my thing. This is where we're going. I got a really big thing I'm doing. And to the extent you're not going to help with

that, or you're an impediment to that, I'm just going to run over your butt, you know, because this is what we're doing. And when you don't care what people think then and you know i don't care what you think about what i drive i drive what i drive because i want to drive it i enjoy that car i didn't buy it for you i bought it for me you know and that's different than i bought this to impress my friends or somebody at a stoplight will think i'm cool you know give me thumbs up at a stoplight and you're in high school well that's kind of kind of cool, but for about, what, half a second. I appreciate it. That's nice, but I'm buying a car for you. You don't care what people think when you've got a big enough goal, when you've got a big enough why. And you can plow through all the naysayers.

They don't care about your health. They don't care about your marriage. They don't care about your kids. They don't care about your career. And they certainly don't care about your health. They don't care about your marriage. They don't care about your kids. They don't care about your career. And they certainly don't care about your financial goals. So get you a big old wife. It'll keep you going a long time. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to the Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify?

For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our show page at DaveRamsey.com slash show.