The Ramsey Show - App - Tactics for Helping a Relative With Money (Hour 2)

Episode Date: November 28, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is gone, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. The phone number here is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Chris is on the line in Baltimore, Maryland. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Mr. Ramsey. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? So I recently got promoted at work, and I'll be in charge of about 30 to 40 people.

So I wanted to know your top two or three leadership or management books that you might suggest to a new team leader. Well, I'll send you a copy of ours. It's called Entree Leadership as my gift. It's the playbook of how we run this place growing it from a card table in my living room to now a major national brand and i'll send that out to you um i don't know if i'll give you specific books let me give you guys to look up okay um most anything that john maxwell writes is going to be awesome on leadership um my favorite of his, and he's probably written 80 books. I've not read all of them.

I've read a bunch of them. He's a good friend of mine. But probably the 21 Irrefutable Laws of Leadership. Yeah, definitely put that on there. That's mandatory reading for all my leaders, by the way. Then anything that John writes, anything that Jim Collins writes is something else worth reading. Jim's best-selling book to date, and it should be on your list, is Good to Great. Okay. Malcolm Gladwell is a great writer in the same space.

His... I think the one to be most helpful to you would probably be Outliers by Gladwell. There's a myriad of others, but that'll get you started. But anything that those four guys write is going to be worth reading. They're solid. Collins is more of a researcher than any of the rest of them. Maxwell

will be more anecdotal stuff than any of the rest of them. Easy reads. But that'll get, you know, four or five of those will get you started and, uh, pick up any of those. The thing you want to make sure of is that, um, you know, you probably start changing some of your verbiage. You're really not in charge. You're in charge of 40 people. Not really.

As a leader, you're there to serve them. Right. And you are technically in charge of them, but you want to create a spirit of, I'm here to help you win and help you get better. And if that means you work somewhere else as part of your winning and getting better, we can do that too. But, you know, we set people free here sometimes when they suck at their job and um but that's for their own that's for their own good you know and because they suck and so they need to find something they're good at and um you know and so it's helpful and you but you just have

real candid kind uh conversations and and you know how what can we do to get the work done and get the organization out of your way so you can win? How can I serve you? What is it you need to win? Let's get together and figure out what we've got to do to win. And when they get that you actually care about them, not just about what they do, then you've become a leader, not a boss. Right.

Bosses push push leaders pull so hold on i'll send you a copy entree leadership you're getting ready to start an incredible journey uh into the world of leadership it's a it's a fascinating uh series of uh thought leaders and the people around that it's, I just love the space. Zach is with us in Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Zach. How are you? Hey, I'm doing well.

Thanks for taking my call, Dave. My dad and I, ever since junior high school, went to church and took financial peace classes when I was in junior high. And like I said, he's obviously older, but I just appreciate everything that you've taught through the classes. And I think starting out in sixth and seventh grade and eighth grade really kind of helped me get to this point. So I definitely want to say thank you. My question is, so I have just separated from a job at a different university and now I have $65,000 and a rollover IRA. I'm

currently at the age of 27 and I'm starting a new job now and I'm working on building up my emergency fund. Currently it's got $3,000 in it and I'm completely debt-free, no car, no student loan. I took care of all that. And so my question is, looking at the baby steps, do I continue to build up my emergency fund yes i know for the six to eight months before i roll over the rollover ira into a roth ira or should i even be thinking about that and maybe just contribute to a roth ira and leave the rollover ira where it is i would just contribute and leave it where it is i wouldn't i wouldn't make anyone turned into a roth yet when you do you're going to create um 15 20 000 in taxes and you need that extra money laying around to cover that.

Right. And so you're not there today. You need to get to where you've got an extra splash money that's $20,000. Or by the time that thing grows to $80,000, it may be $30,000 that you need in taxes. But for right now, I would just let it sit there and grow and not worry about creating a taxable event. Get your emergency fund done. It wouldn't even bother me if you got your house paid off

before you rolled that over into a Roth, that kind of thing. Really? It's just extra tax money. If I had $20,000 in the middle of the table, what do I want to do? Do I want to pay it in tax money and turn this thing into a Rothoth or do i want to pay it towards the house or do i want to pay it towards something else and you're just not there right now so it needs to be extra money so to speak hanging out and that's that's when you'll be ready to do that i think it's a great idea to convert it to a roth at some point but but you're premature at this stage because, again, you don't have the extra $15,000 or $20,000 laying around.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. Christian's on Twitter following me. Dave, I started digging into my Workplace 403B. There's only nine funds to choose from, and the options aren't great. Do I take the match and use the Roths for the rest? Yes, and use Roths for the rest. Yes. Yeah, take the match because even if they options aren't great, do I take the match and use the Roths for the rest? Yes. And use Roths for the rest? Yes.

Yeah. Take the match because even if they're not performing great, you still got 100% ready to return before you started. So up to the match, do the best you can there, and then go fund Roths up to 15% of your household income in Baby Step 4. Now, when you're in Baby Step 4, that means you're debt-free, but the house house you have your emergency fund in place now we're putting 15 of our income away and if that's the if that's the context but the in which you're asking the question christian then yes i would go up to the 403 i'd do the 403b up to the match even if it's lousy options, you've got 100% rate of return on your money before anything started.

And then go do Roth IRAs until you get to 15%. Then stop, move on to baby step five and baby step six from there. Thanks for following us on Twitter, Christian. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Folks, let's cut through the bull. Interest rates are exceptionally low, so you're missing out if you have not called Churchill Mortgage to see if you can save money on your home loan. Lots of other companies are out there claiming great deals, but don't get lured by slick advertisements. No-cost refinance offers do not mean they're free. Churchill Mortgage has a no-bull refinance.

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Do it today while rates are low. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLSconsumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 761 Old Hickory Boulevard, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Thank you for joining us, America. Glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Bradley's in Richland, Washington. Hi, Bradley. How are you? Well, that's beyond measure, Dave. Same here. How can I help? I'm a short-time listener, first-time caller. I've never read your book, never took any of the classes, but I have lots of friends that I hang out with,

and my parents were really always talking about days this, days that. And I said, well, just tell me about it. And so they told me the snowball effect, and then so I did it. Paid off all the credit cards. They told me about it. I should pay off the house. Did it. Paid off all the credit cards. They told me about it. I should pay off the house. Did it. Paid off the house.

And so now here I sit almost debt-free at the end of this marathon. I'm sorry, almost? I thought you paid off the house. I did pay off the house. I have an RV left. Oh, an RV. Okay. You paid off your house before your RV.

Okay. That's correct. And how much do you owe on the RV? $29. Okay. And your household income is what? About $140,000 to $160,000, depending on how much time I take off. Good for you.

Okay. So what's your question? So here I am, and now I'm dumping a bunch of my money into my 401. And what I notice is I started watching your podcast here, and I realized I know nothing. And so now I'm thinking, man, do I need to go back to the baby steps and read your book, take the class, and act like I'm just a noob? Because I actually am pretty new. Well, what you got is a bunch of pieces of information discombobulated and in the wrong

order and so forth. But the good news is you actually cared about the subject. You did something about the subject, the subject called money. You weren't passive and, you know, sitting in a victim's chair or something, and you make really good money, and you're obviously a smart guy. So, you know, there's a lot of good news here. So really all the baby steps would do or our proper order, what we would call the proper order, would do for you, would just be to fine-tune your plan.

And I think you would feel a better sense of traction if you had that. Okay? And so, you know, what I would do is you are in baby step two because you have non-mortgage debt left called the RV. Right. I would stop everything and get that RV paid off. Once that's done, then I would do my emergency fund. Do you have money to save for your emergency fund already?

Yeah, I have about $10,000 in the bank, which is not much for my income. No, not much. Well, baby step one is $1,000. Anything above that that's not in retirement accounts that are penalized, we slam onto the consumer debt, which you have $29,000 of. Okay? And so a purist, if you're working our plan, okay, you can do what you want to do,

obviously, but you call me, so I'm telling you. A purist would take you down to $1,000. That's maybe step one. Everything above that goes on this thing on this rv we're stopping the 401k we're stopping anything we're on beans and rice rice and beans very tight budget and very very quickly clear that rv and then very very quickly move on to baby step three which is a fully funded emergency fund of three to six months of expenses in In your house, that's $25,000 or $30,000. And just sitting there just for a rainy day fund.

When you finish that, then you would restart your 401K. And that's not going to take you very long. What are we? We're $60,000 from there. You make $145,000, and you have $10,000 to throw at it. So you're really $50,000, and you have $10,000 to throw at it. So you're really $50,000 from being where I'm talking about. Right.

Okay? That's a six-month plan, you know? Yes. Something like that. And you'll be sitting there at that point 100% debt-free with your emergency fund in place. Given that your home is paid for, that will leapfrog you then all the way through to baby step seven. And then what you're doing is you're maxing out retirement and you're doing other investing.

And if you've got kids' college, you start pounding on the kids' college in there. But that's how it would unfold were you to do this in the, quote, proper order. And all that's doing is prioritizing things properly because you kind of went around on the other side you got your investing started you went around on the other side got the house paid off kind of backwards so to speak because you're vulnerable now you've still got this consumer debt and you got almost no emergency fund right you know you're sitting here vulnerable because just because you did out of the right in the wrong order but it's not that big a deal it's very very fixable if you just decide

you want to submit yourself to this plan or you can do your plan you know everybody can do their own thing it's whatever you want to do this one just works we don't know about yours we know about mine mine works and um so you can do whatever you want to do again i'm fine with it but we've kind of got a proven track record here i mean this is like best practices dude and so hold on i'll send you a copy of the book the total money makeover read through it for yourself you'll do it in one night you're that guy and you know you're gonna go oh okay i see what dave's talking about and you'll see exactly how to unfold what we talked about here. And you'll be able to pull this call up on the podcast and listen to it again.

If you forget exactly what I told you, it'll be right there. And if I can help you further, you can call me anytime. But that's just fine-tuning to all the already good things you've already done. You've done a lot of really good things. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Gamer is next in Los Angeles. Hi, Gamer. How are you? Hey, Dave. How are you? It's a pleasure speaking with you. You too. What's up?

I'm calling on behalf of my parents. I've been listening to the show for a long time, and I noticed my parents are living a little bit differently, and I'm just want to know how I can help them. So they really believe in having a credit score, so they spend everything every month on a credit card, and they always pay it off.

So for 20 years, they've never had any overcharges. They've never had any late payments or any interest payments, but they really believe having a credit score is valuable in this country. How do I get them off of that idea? How old are you? I am 21. You're not? Yes, I am. No, you're not going to get them off the idea.

Oh, okay. They've been doing this since before you were born. They don't want your opinion. Well, I mean, we call it the powdered butt syndrome. Once someone has powdered your butt, they don't want your opinion about money or sex. And so the chances of mom and dad listening to a 21-year-old preach to them about how to handle their money is almost zero unless they ask. Now, what you can do is a couple of things.

I mean, you're not going to be able to sit down and have a one-on-one debate with your dad and him suddenly stop doing what he's been doing since before you were born. You follow me? You just don't have credibility to do that. But you can tell them about your story. They're going to disagree. They're not going them about your story. They're going to disagree. They're not going to like your story. You're living without a credit score.

You're living on a cash basis. You're not going into debt so that you can go into debt so that you can go into debt so that you can go into debt, which is the credit score dog chasing its tail that the whole culture lives with. I'm going into debt. Why? So that I can go into debt. Why? So that I can go into debt. Why? So that I can go into debt. Why?

So that I can go into debt. And that's what your dad has done his whole life. And he thinks that FICO is his provider, and FICO is not his provider. Wealth is his provider. And the good job he's probably done a good job with money. It sounds like they're very disciplined and that they've used the, as you said, moving to this country, they've used that as an opportunity. And I suspect they've built some wealth. Yeah. My second question is that my dad's looking to buy a second home to give out as a rental

property as an income, because my dad doesn't have any kind of investment or 401k. He works on his own. My mom has a small 401k from her work, but it's only $25,000 in there. But my dad has nothing except his nest egg, which he wants to buy a property with debt to rent out for income. Should I try to encourage him to also put some of that into investing and then use the rest of it for debt? I would avoid a rental property with debt. I don't tell people to do that. And I would tell him to first build his Roth IRA and your mom's Roth IRA in some good growth stock mutual funds. So bottom line is they haven't built wealth.

I was wrong. I thought they had. But they're basically broke because they've been worshiping at the altar of the great FICO. So number one, tell them your story. Number two,

you can give them a copy of our book, introduce them to the idea, let someone else talk to them about it. I doubt they're going to take your advice. It would be unusual for them to do so. There is no other horse in racing like the thoroughbred. One of the things that distinguishes a world-class thoroughbred is the size of their heart. In fact, after the Triple Crown winner Secretariat died, they discovered that his heart weighed 22 pounds.

The size of the average donkey heart? Seven pounds. The right person has an impact on your growing business for years to come. That's why we try our hardest to only hire thoroughbreds here. The brain is the same size, but a bigger heart will move mountains. And that's why we also trust and use LinkedIn. They are the best at matching the right person with the right job. You can't get a more highly targeted field of thoroughbreds than LinkedIn jobs. Get started today and get $50 off your first job post. Visit linkedin.com slash Ramsey. That's linkedin.com slash Ramsey. Terms and conditions apply. Josh is with us in Green Bay, Wisconsin.

Hi, Josh. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. It's great to talk to you. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? Dave, I just want to say thanks to start out with.

I've been listening to you since I was 22 years old. I'm now 33. Happy to say my wife and I are on baby step seven. With that being said, we currently both max out 401k options that we have available to us. Additionally, something I've never heard discussed on the show is we were informed that my wife's 401k failed some sort of testing, and she was going to receive a portion of her 401k contribution back. My question for you is, with that amount that we are going to be receiving back, I've already looked into it, and we were told we will not be receiving any kind of penalty

for early withdrawal since it's not something that we chose to do. It was defined as essentially an excessive contribution. Should we take that money and invest it in a taxable account, or what other options would you recommend us doing? Are you doing Roth IRAs as well? Due to our income, we don't qualify for that. You can do backdoor Roths. The backdoor Roth is where you open a traditional after-tax, not before-tax IRA, and then you instantaneously roll it to a Roth.

I do one every year. Okay. And you can do that with your SmartVestor Pro. They don't just tell them you want to do a backdoor Roth. And how old are you guys? 33, and my wife's 32. Okay. You can do $5,500 each.

Will that cover the amount they're sending back? It would be pretty close, yes. Okay. What's happened is she makes over $120,000, doesn't she? And she's a highly compensated employee, and the 401K's got poor participation. Yes. And that's what's happened here. If you make over $120,000 a year and enough of the other people that work at the organization

in the lower ranks of income don't participate in the 401k they don't allow just the uh the highly compensated people to put money in and the lower compensated people not and so they'll they'll limit how much you can put in in that case what this tells me is is that her company desperately needs to do some education to their team okay and that's where companies bring our in our smart dollar stuff a lot during these times because that if you can walk through people through smart dollar they get on a budget they get out of debt and then they're they start their 401k at 15 and that's if they're making 20 000 or if they're making 200 000 and what she's got a large percentage of the people that make less than she does in her company that are not contributing. How big a company is this that she works for?

It's actually a relatively large company. Excuse me. I know that they had made some, this is not the first time this has happened, they had made some adjustments to try and alleviate this from happening moving forward, and we were hoping that it wouldn't be the case, and ultimately, I think they were doing some sort of automatic enroll and some other options to try and get people to Yeah, people try that automatic enroll all the time, but the bottom line is broke people don't invest in a 401k, and so you can't auto-enroll broke people because they turn around and turn the auto-enroll right back off.

They're not going to put money in because they're broke. And so what you've got to do, what she's got, I mean, like how many, is this 20,000 employees or 2,000? Probably closer to two. Okay, yeah. We work with companies that size all the time. Tell her to holler at our smart dollar guys, get her HR team on it, because the education is the only thing that works. You can't force people to save when they're broke. Now, moving forward, if you don't mind me asking, I know obviously we would want to

still take advantage of any contribution that would allow us to get the company match. Sure. But you're talking about the backdoor Roth option. Should we only go to the company match and then assume that it's going to fail and not max out our 401k contribution or should we continue to try and max it out and if we get the money back then do the backdoor roth is the 401k is the 401k roth yes that's the option we selected for her they have both options okay it doesn't matter i mean both are you're going to end up in the money in the roth either way uh certainly i'd go up in the money in a Roth either way.

Certainly, I'd go up through the match. But above the match, if you go into this and they punch you back out every year and you pop it over in the back door Roths like you're doing this year, that's not going to be the end of the world. If you like the options and things that are there. But obviously, she's a leader in the organization based on her income. And I really would encourage her to sit down and talk with some of the other leadership, and especially the HR people that are managing the 401k, because it is an education problem. And when we come in with SmartDollar, most of these highly compensated penalties get reversed

because other people start contributing. The only answer is for the people, you know, all up and down the spectrum to contribute. And otherwise, you're going to get hammered with this every time. Hey, thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Brandon is in Las Vegas. Hi, Brandon. How are you?

I'm doing good, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my question is actually regarding one of my in-laws. They basically live paycheck to paycheck. Any money that's left over, they spend it there in Congress, as you would say. And I'm going to have a sit-down conversation with them pretty soon.

And I'm trying to get some advice on how to really start this conversation and kind of get them rolling on saving and like kind of planning for the future yeah how long you've been married to their daughter uh just a couple years yeah this isn't gonna work no they didn't ask your opinion. Did they? No, but they are always struggling. I know. I didn't say they didn't need the help. I just said they weren't looking for help.

And you're in a pretty weak seat from a credibility perspective. You're just the snot-nosed kid that married their daughter two years ago. And so what I would do is change my tactic. I don't think you're going to be able to sit down and be Mr. Teacher here. I don't think that's going to work. Because I think you're going to end up just offending them, or they're going to nod like a bobblehead and then just go do is I want you to start some conversations that sound like, hey, this is what me and your daughter are doing. And we were really struggling and we were really scared. And when we started doing this and doing a budget and we started, you know, we cut up our credit cards and we started doing these things.

Man, we feel so much better. And, you know, and just kind of drop a few of those things out there. And occasionally, and then sometimes somebody will look at you and say, wow, that'd be cool. I wish I could do that. Well, I could show you how. Now they've asked, okay? I'm trying to trick them into asking you. But don't go in in any way talking about how dumb they are.

They are dumb, but let's not talk about it, okay? Don't be, you know, instead go in and just tell your story about how you were doing some dumb things, and you were hurting, and you were scared. And then when I started doing the X and Y and Z, wow, things got so much better. And their daughter goes, Mom, man, my life is so much better. It's so cool. And, and they go, well, I wish I could do that. Well, we could show you how soon as they say, I wish I could.

Now you got an opening. Okay. But when you call a meeting for an intervention with people, you don't have a, a, a, a distant, a, an in-depth relationship with that's short term. You've been married a little while, they're just not going to listen to you, I don't think. I don't think it's going to work. But let's try to get them to ask for your help.

And then, you know, you could just leave them a book or something at that point, a total money makeover book, or put them in Financial Peace University or whatever, and then let me be the bad guy and the expert with an attitude and all that kind of stuff i'm pretty good at that part so um but yeah you if you can just lead them into a handoff to to me then i think we can get them there but um if they called you up and already said hey i love what you guys are doing would y'all come over and show us what you're doing? Oh, all right, now you've got the opening, right? Then they'll listen because they asked for it. But you're just watching them, and it's hurting your heart because they're hurting themselves,

and they're broke all the time, and they don't need to be. They make too much money to be broke. And, you know, you've got the solution, I understand, but they didn't ask. You've got to get them to ask. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. got the solution i understand but they didn't ask you gotta get them to ask this is the dave ramsey show Thank you. Thanks for joining us, America. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Chance is with us in Nashville. Hi, Chance, how are you?

Chance? I've had a better day. Uh-oh, what's up? was how do I differentiate myself to employers? So I graduated with a business degree in economics May 2017, and I've been looking for work ever since. So I graduated. I was on the Dean's List every single semester, save one of my college career, and I graduated cum laude. Good for you um

and to give you a little bit more of my background since age 17 i've been independent and so i've worked my way through my final year of high school and all four years of my college so it's been tough what do you want to do i didn't get so what do you want to do i've trained what do you want to do? I didn't get... So... What do you want to do? I've trained... What do I want to do? Mm-hmm. I trained to be a data analyst, so I'd like to get a job in that field. Okay. All right.

And what do you think that that position is worth? So the going market rate for that, the median, is $52,000 a year in salary. Mm-hmm. That includes people with experience that are not straight out of college, right? No, no, no. That is for people who are supposed to be out of college, bachelor's degree, to have zero to one years of experience in the field. Oh, okay. All right.

Because I've got some data analysts here, and I knew they made more than that, so I was wondering where you got that. Okay. All right. Cool. data analysts here but and i knew they made more than that but i was thinking so i was wondering where you got that okay all right cool well um so uh first thing is go to ken coleman uh ken coleman's website the ken coleman show or ken coleman.com either one and uh you want to download his pdfs there how to distinguish yourself in the interview process and also how to write a resume that'll actually get you an interview now um a couple things one um most employers unless they're like huge huge companies uh um sadly really don't care about whether you're on the dean's list. They really don't care what your GPA was. I'm glad you did that. It does indicate to me as an employer that you're a smart guy.

But truthfully, all I care about is can you do the work here? That's what I care about. And to the extent that that indicates you can do the work, fine. But I'm going to be concerned about your street smart as well as your book smart as to whether or not you can actually pull that data up and use some common sense to look at that data. Does that make sense? It does. Okay. And so what any employer, I mean, you've got a degree in econ, you know this.

What any employer is looking for is a return on investment. So if they're spending $60,000 on you, they want to make $600 from the data you produce. And so you've got to produce data that gives them some kind of insight into their business that causes them to make money. Is that logical? It does. Okay. So what are you doing for food to eat right now what kind of what kind of side you got a side hustle or a part-time hustle or something uh while you're

trying to eat right yeah so i finally received part-time employment uh this past june and i'm a courier and so i i deliver i deliver pharmaceuticals to hospitals, regional hospitals, and when I complete my runs for the day, I usually do DoorDash, so I deliver food. Gotcha. Okay, so what are you making? How much money are you making? How much money are you making? It really varies.

I think roughly a month. In a given month, what do you make roughly? In a given month, roughly $2,000 to $2,500. Okay, cool. Half of what your market value is as a data analyst then. All right, cool. All right, here's a couple of ideas, and I don't know exactly how to help you break through um but i i will tell you

that you need to be really really careful in the language that you use your sentence structure and so forth that indicates when you're talking to a potential employer that you're you don't feel entitled to anything that you don't feel uh put out you sound a little put out that that somehow everybody hasn't lined up to hire you okay and if you transfer that to me in an interview i'm not going to hire you because what that tells me as a hiring manager is nothing i'm do as an employer is ever going to make you happy that's what i hear okay and i understand your frustration but i'm coaching you. You follow me?

I hear you. Okay. So go in there and say, how can I add value? Not you owe me something. And you weren't saying that overtly. Don't misunderstand me. I'm not picking on you. But just be very careful that you're there to serve.

When I have someone come in here that says, hey, if you pay me $60, I'll make you $600, and I can show you how. That's somebody that gets my attention. If I hire a sales rep and I'm going to pay them 10% commission, it's the same thing, right? I'm paying them $60. They're bringing in $600 in gross revenues, right? And so I can do that all day long if I think the guy or gal can sell. And so I can add that salesperson because they make me more than they cost me and all of that kind of thing. So that's what you're doing. So a couple ideas to throw on top of this.

Number one, three ideas. Number one, go to Ken Coleman's website and download both of those PDFs. They're legit. They will give you some good. It's how to win the interview and how to write the perfect resume. Resumes are worthless, though, without these other two ideas. Idea number two. They will give you some good. It's how to win the interview and how to write the perfect resume. Resumes are worthless, though, without these other two ideas. Idea number two, you need to find someone that works for the company.

I don't care if it's in shipping that you want to go to work for, that you can make a connection to, a friend of a friend, a friend, somebody you go to church with, whatever the deal, right? And so they can walk your resume into HR or into the hiring manager and say, hey, at least give this guy a look. Because here, let me give you an example at our place. We hired 200 people last year. We're in your city. We had 15,000 applications. You get lost in that no matter how cool you are.

Does that make sense? So I understand that's how I got my current job. I have a friend of a friend. There you go. A friend of my science school teacher. Yeah, we got to get, we got to get, just get, just get me in the door. Now, I'm not asking you to hire me because this guy. I'm just asking you to get me in the door and let me get in front of him.

Okay, then go in there, you know, all polished up, not weird, not nerded out, but I mean, you know, you combed your hair, you brushed your teeth, right? You're wearing a belt, all that stuff. You're dressed appropriately for that particular workplace. You go in there and you smile. You look the guy in the eye and you say, I can add value. All I need is a shot. I will bring in this company, this organization more than I cost.

And I can show you exactly how I can do that. And as a matter of fact, have done a little bit of research on the company itself so you can actually show them how you're going to do that. Right. So I've already looked at this area over here. I think I could do something in that area. Then last idea. If none of that works, here's a way to break in. Offer to work for three weeks for free. I'm going to come in here and show you.

I'm going to give you a sample of this pizza, and you're going to want the pizza. I'm going to give you a sample of this biscuit. You're going to want the biscuit. I'm not trying to be weird. I'm not trying give you a sample of this biscuit. You're going to want the biscuit. And I'm not trying to be weird. I'm not trying to be strange. But I will come in here and work for three weeks for free and get my feet in here and show you guys that I will do anything that it takes to add value to this company more than this company pays me. I just want a chance to be a blessing.

I want a chance to serve this organization, this organization's customers. And if you kind of come at it that way with that attitude and that body language, that tonality with your voice, and it changes your sentence structure. And that's what I was kind of coaching you on a little bit earlier, your sentence structure and the way you approach the thing, the emotion you're using. Because I got to tell you, they are they're not hiring you based on your degree. They're not hiring you based on where you went to school. They're not hiring you based on the dean's list.

They are not hiring you based on any of these things. They are only hiring you because they can make more on you than you cost them. And that's what we're trying to convince them of. Based on our education, based on the tools that are in our belt, based on the way I carry myself, based on my street smarts, I've got to tell you, the fact that you've been independent on your own since 17 is probably more impressive to me as a potential hirer than the Dean's List. So there you go. Something to think about.

Good job, Chance. You got them. If I can help you further, you call me back, man. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey Show. This episode is over, but if you heard about a product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. Thanks for listening.