The Ramsey Show - App - Teaching Older Teens How to Handle Money (Hour 2)

Episode Date: June 15, 2018

The show about you

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I am Dave Ramsey, your host. This is your show, America. Thank you for joining us. Open phones this hour at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Chris starts off this hour in Portland, Oregon. Hi, Chris. How are you? I'm doing well, Dave. Thanks for asking.

Sure. What's up? Well, my wife and I just started our debt snowball. After we make our minimum payments on debt, we've got about $1,000 a month extra to throw at debt. Awesome. Very soon, I am going to be to my truck that I owe $14,000 on. The minimum payment is about $235 a month. The most they will let me pay a month is $700 and change. I'm sorry?

The most they will let you pay? Yeah, there's a maximum payment of $700, a little over $700. I don't remember the exact figure. Why? I don't know the exact figure. Why? I don't know that. That's bizarre. Never heard of that. Is there a prepayment penalty?

No. I specifically asked the dealer when I bought the truck if there would be a prepayment penalty, and he told me no. The loan is with Wells Fargo, so it's not some off-the-wall finance company. Actually, it is. I mean, Wells Fargo has some divisions of their company that are absolute scum. So what is your interest rate? I don't know exactly. It's around 4%.

Okay. Well, you've not got a subprime loan. I don't know where Wells Fargo gets off telling you you can't prepay on the loan well i don't know that either but i think i have three options i could try to refinance with a different lender i don't want to do that no no need there's two you really have two options one is bust their chops and challenge this stupid butt thing they're suggesting, I don't know contractually how they think they can get away with that. Because if it's not a subprime loan with a prepayment penalty, there's nothing to prevent you from prepaying principal.

And so I'm about to get all up in somebody's grill. That's my first step. Let's pretend that doesn't work and you're limited to $700, but you can put extra, which would only be... I'm sorry? $1,200 would be the amount I'd like to pay on my truck. Yeah, but you're limited to $700, so you have a $500 going into savings every month until that savings equals the balance of the truck, and then you write a check.

Okay. That's what I was thinking, but... Yeah, but long before I do that, just on principle, I'm just going to completely rip somebody. Let me just tell you, I've been doing this 30 years. I've never heard of somebody trying to pull this off. Unless there's a prepayment penalty, and there should not be. Prepayment penalties are in Rule of 78's contracts, which are almost always subprime. And at 4%, you're not in a subprime loan.

So this is just Wells Fargo BS is what this is. And so I really am going to be all up in their business. It doesn't matter much because it's 4%. You know, what you're losing is 4% on $500 for one month, 4% annually, you know, on $500 for one month times however many months this goes on. But, you know, you're going to knock the thing out pretty quick. So it's really not going to be a lot of math.

It's not going to cost you much money. It's probably going to cost you less than $100 by the time all the smoke clears on this by them pulling these shenanigans but just on principle i'm going to go you've got to be freaking kidding me that you people think you can get away with this and i'm going to get all up in somebody on this thing that they think they can limit your principal payment uh additional principal payment annual or monthly. Now, they can and oftentimes by contract do on all kinds of loans. Mortgage loans, for example, limit the number of times you pay on something a month, but not the number of dollars you pay in a month.

But start there. If that doesn't work, then just throw your $500 in the account until that account adds up to the – and that account is growing as the balance is decreasing, and when those lines cross, write a check and pay it off. Danielle is in Sacramento, California. Hi, Danielle. How are you? I'm better than I deserve.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So, I do transitional foster care, so it's ages 17 to 21, and these are kids that are aging out of the foster system. And part of what I do with them is I teach them how to adult. And a big part of that is budgeting. Yeah. And so obviously a lot of these kids are feisty.

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. But you're teaching them how to adult in a lot of things. They're feisty in how they drive a car. They're feisty in X, Y, Z, anything. Fill in the blank. They're feisty, right? Absolutely, absolutely. So getting these kids to sit down and do anything absolutely is very difficult.

And I have found that getting these kids to even talk about money is one of the hardest things. And I was wondering if you had any recommendations. Well, I think you just don't. Money's not in a different category here. You're teaching them behavior skills. Yeah. And how do you get them to, you know, not do drugs, okay? How do you get them to come in at a curfew? How do you get them to whatever the behavior skill is that you're setting them up to, you know,

have self-control to be a high-quality adult? Because high-quality adults have self-control. And you're trying to teach them that personal discipline, and no one's ever walked with them that way and i suspect the way you do that is you earn their trust by they sense that you really love them and you really do care about this and you don't have to do this so you're doing this because it's a ministry in your life right absolutely yeah so the way you do that is just the same way I would do it with any teenager. You're going to earn their love. You're going to earn their trust.

They're going to know that, you know, you've got a good heart. You're trying to help. I'm really trying to help. And so then you sit down in the calmer moments and you say, look, the people that win at life, would you like to be rich? We'll show you how to be rich. Stay out of debt. Get on a budget.

We'll show you how to be rich. You want to be rich? I'll show you how to be rich. Stay out of debt. Get on a budget. Let me show you how to be rich. You want to be rich? I'll show you how to be rich. You know? You want to be in control with your money? Because it controls the rest of your life. The other parts of your life are in control, by and large, if you can keep your money in control. Let me show you how to do that.

And this is like, and, you know, just reach over and go, hey, if you were 30 years old and you were my friend and we were having coffee, this is what I would tell you. It just happens to be that you're 17 and I'm trying to show you how to be an adult but this is how good adults do this you want me to show you how and it's just you know if you want to be rich do you want to go buy a car and pay cash for it would you like to go to school and pay cash for it would you like to travel the world and see it and pay cash for it let me show you how to do that you have to be in control of your money and it starts starts with a budget. And so all we're doing is persuading someone with having a big enough reason to do the activity. And the reason we do a budget, the reason we stay out of debt, is because it gives us the money to live our dreams.

How many kids are you working with in a year? I have two at a time, and they stay anywhere from four months to a year. Okay. We have a wonderful book for that age group called The Graduate Survival Guide, Five Mistakes You Can't Afford to Make in College by Anthony O'Neill. It's for high school graduates. Let me send you five of those to help you with the next five kids. Hold on.

I'll have Kelly pick up. We want to be part of your plan. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Okay, I need you to listen to this. Because one normal routine that everyone does can cause total chaos in your life. I'm talking about the simple act of using Wi-Fi. When you're on Wi-Fi anywhere in public or at home, you're at risk of hackers easily seeing every site you visit and every search you're doing online. It doesn't matter if you're on your cell or your laptop. They can see you visiting websites, streaming or downloading,

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Download Hotspot Shield by Anchor Free today. Thank you for joining us, America. This is the day for MC Chef. Colleen is with us in Charlottesville. Hi, Colleen. How are you? Hi, I'm doing well. Thank you for taking my call. Sure.

What's up? I have a friend who is getting into the network marketing business, and I want to know what your views were about that and what your advice would be for someone thinking about getting started in that area. Okay. Well, there's a lot of positives and a lot of negatives with network marketing, like there is with a lot of things. And the positives are you're in charge of your own destiny.

There's no glass ceiling. There's nothing holding you down, no. Nothing holding you down but your ability to leave the cave kill something and drag it home i have friends um probably six or seven personal friends that make over a million dollars a year in network marketing um i probably have six or seven thousand people i have met who are disillusioned that tried it and hate it like a lot of things. But it draws a lot of people in, obviously. And the deal you need to remember is that if you go into that business, you're not in the dot, dot, dot business. You are in the recruiting of people business.

If you're going to make any money, your job is to hire, train, and replace, hire, train, and replace sales people and hopefully if some of them will hire train and replace and build hierarchies but the people who make serious money six figures and above are all people who hire a lot of people into their network marketing business it's not the people who sell a bazillion dollars worth of knives or makeup or whatever it's all about building a network right and so you got to know are you do you want to be in the hiring and training and hiring and training and hiring and training of salespeople business if you do and that's okay with you and

that's what you want to do with your life then that's it's it's a good way to make money doing that, and some of them have that. The thing you want to be careful of is to, you know, evaluate people in that way when you're talking about bringing them on, because there are hierarchies within every multilevel organization that are cult-like, and they'll tell you stupid stuff like, you know, go put your kit on a credit card, fill up your garage with our product on a credit card, and anybody and everybody should be in our business, and anybody that's not in our business is dumb and whatever. And so what you end up doing then is just insulting all of your friends and family and everybody else because they get sick of you.

And I'm sick of you bothering me i'm not going to get in multi-level i've got a dadgum huge business and i'm not going to get in multi-level nor do i want to be in it so i'm not mad about it but don't bother me about this and i'm not stupid because i didn't get in your multi-level so people that act that way need to be smacked and the rest of us are sick of people like that don't be that guy you know don't be that gal and so if you're that if you can get in it and you can have some professional decorum and realize hey probably the guy who's first uh seat uh clarinet in the local orchestra is probably not going to be a salesperson for you you know and you wouldn't hire them if you were running a traditional company

to do that role even if they wanted to you wouldn't so the hype thing you know and tell them people they can make more than they can make and all of that and tell people the truth tell them how hard it is and if you do all of that if you do all of that it's a legitimate business there's nothing wrong with network marketing i'm'm not mad about it. There's some people hate it and don't want anything to do with it. But, you know, just have some common sense and decorum about yourself and how you conduct

yourself regarding it. And know that you're in the hiring and training of salesperson business. That's the business you're getting into. And if that's the business you want to be in, then it's not a bad way to go. Does that sound a lot logical to you? It does, yes, very much so.

Okay. And if you look at it like you would any other career to where, you know, if your first cousin doesn't get in it, then, you know, you don't speak to him for 20 years. What? You know? And I know people that have done that over multi-level because they get so hyped up about it. And it's good to get excited and good to be enthusiastic, but it just gets over the top with some folk, and, you know, just don't be that gal, you know,

and you'll be all right and still have your friends when you're done. I know people that have been in 14 of these things, and every time I see them, they want something from me. They don't ever bring anything to the table. They always want something. They're transactional rather than relational. You don't want to be that person. And sometimes multi-level brings that out in people or network marketing brings that out in people and you just don't want to be that. But most of them are not really good part-time jobs. Most of the time people don't make much

money on a part-time basis until they get their business built up to some pretty substantial levels so you can probably make more money delivering pizzas as a part-time job or cutting grass but um but if you're growing your business you're pouring into it then you're paying a price to do that you're accepting a lower income in the short term in order to build it up and if you look at it through that realistic lens then like i say i've got friends that make really really good money in that world and i think they're people of integrity by and large um maybe one i know isn't but you know but most of them are most of them are open phones at 888-825-5225 joel is with in Los Angeles. Hey, Joel, how are you? Hi there, Dave.

I'm struggling through college. How about you? Well, how can I help, sir? Well, so I have a situation that works. I'm a part-time, I'm working part-time, and I'm a full-time student. I'm living with my parents, and I don't got student loans because my parents are fortunate enough to cover that. Good. I'm an illustration

major, and there are a lot of talks and events at my school that would help me in my career path, like getting networking and all that, but I can never go to them because my job is on weekends, and that's when the events are. And I'm trying to move out close to campus, but it's Southern California.

I'm trying to live on your own. It's like $14,000 a month, or not $14,000, $1,400 a month, and I'm looking at trying to do full-time in the nights, but that would limit my classes I can do. And I'm just wondering, seeking counsel, because the Bible says to get wisdom. And so I was wondering if you had any suggestions. I think out of the three things you need to decide which is your number one priority, school, work, and where you live. If it were me, school would be my number one priority.

In order to go to school debt-free, you're going to have to work some. But, you know, how much you work and how much you make, you know, getting out of school on time, meaning four years, and attending some of these events that take you towards your career preempt work. Now, I want to work enough that you're able to pay for things. But if you can get out of school and, you know, hit your academic goals and your graduation goals and stay at home a little bit longer, I would. I would. I think that's a nice thing that your parents are offering you there. You being on your own, you've got plenty of time to do that, and I want you to move out

on your own as soon as you can, but it sounds like the way you're describing this, that if you move out on your own, then you're going to have the extra bills, you're going to have to work even more, which is going to disturb your whole school process. And so now, guess what the number one priority was then? Moving out. school process and so now guess what guess what the number one priority was then moving out if it's if it's the tail that's wagging the dog it's it's become the number one priority if it if it's making if it's disrupting work thereby disrupting your academics and your path then it's you put the priority on the wrong thing i think that would be my last thing so number one priority would be

getting out of school on time early and having as much of the attending as me, those types of events as you're wanting to attend as possible. Meanwhile, working so much that I'm able to do that debt-free, and I'm able to get out and finish this whole thing up. And so that's what I would do. I mean, I would focus on that. And if that means that you're staying at home in order to pull that off, then I would.

I'd stay at home until you get this done. But get it done fast. I mean, it's not a five-year or an eight-year program. This is a five-month or a two-year program or something like that. Let's get it done as fast as we possibly can. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, this is Dave Ramsey. You know, most of us have gotten behind on our bills at one time or another. That's nothing to be ashamed of.

It happens. And many of us know the embarrassment that comes with those harassing calls from collectors. Some of these guys are just scum. But then there are the collectors that are just plain crooks. These are the guys that take it a step further and they violate the Federal Fair Debt Collection Practices Act on a daily basis. They're breaking the law and they need to be stopped. The truth is, debt collection is the most abusive, out-of-control industry in America today. But you don't have to put up with it. If you have collectors calling you multiple times a day, calling you at work after you've asked them not to, cursing or threatening you in any way, then you need to visit CollectionBully.com. These folks will connect you with an attorney who I know can help you.

These attorneys know how to stop collection agencies from bullying and threatening you anymore. CollectionBully.com. Go to CollectionBully.com today. That's CollectionBully.com. Go to CollectionBully.com today. That's CollectionBully.com. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Derek and Abby are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Doing great. Thank you, Dave, for having us. Absolutely.

Welcome, welcome. Good to have you. Where are you guys from? We are from a small town near Lima, Ohio. Oh, we've got a friend in Lima. His name is Stanley Tam. Do you know who Stanley is? No, we do not. He owns a little company called U.S. Plastics there. Oh, Ohio. Oh, I've got a friend in Lima. His name is Stanley Tam. Do you know who Stanley is? No, we do not. He owns a little company called U.S. Plastics there.

Oh, okay. He's given away hundreds of millions of dollars over the years. He's probably almost 100 now. He's in his 90s. He's an amazing guy. Well, welcome. Good to have you guys. It's good to be here.

Pleasure to have you. So you're here to do your debt-free scream. How much have you paid off? We paid off $60,000 in 13 months. All right. Love it. Good for you. So you're here to do your debt-free scream. How much have you paid off? We paid off $60,000 in 13 months. All right. Love it. Good for you. And what kind of debt was that? It was about $10,000 was a van, $10,000 was a home improvement loan, and the rest was all student loans. You were kind of normal. Yeah. A little bit of everything. Normal sucks. Yeah, I hear you. I'm with you on that. So what was your range of income through this 13 months? It was from 100 to 120,000.

Great. What do you all do for a living? I am a clinical dietitian. And I'm an executive director for the American Red Cross. Oh, very good. Good for you guys. Well done. Well done.

So what happened? What put you on this journey 13 months ago? Yeah, well, we heard about you a couple years ago. And honestly, we never really went all in on the process because our why wasn't big enough. And we thought, oh, it might be nice to have a little extra money and stuff. But we never got into it. And then we're kind of stupid, Dave. And so one of our prayers all the time to God is if you want us to do something, hit us over the head with a ball bat, make it that obvious.

And so we heard a couple of debt-free screams online that were really powerful. And I attended a leadership conference and heard Craig Groeschel speak. And he said, if you need to make a commitment, make that commitment today. And he specifically said, if you need to be debt-free, be debt-free by the end of the year. And so that just fired us up and got us excited on our debt-free journey. And we realized we had to be all in. And so we made a couple of key sacrifices. Very cool. Yeah. I remember Derek came home and he had been talking about your show for a long, long time and came home one night and he's like, okay, I think I finally figured out what we need to do and we need to sell our house. And I was like, whoa, wait a second. And

my parents own my grandparents' old house ever since they retired to their late cottage. And it's an old farmhouse in the middle of nowhere. And he's like, we could live there for a while while we pay off debt. And I told him flat out, I was like, no, that is not going to happen. We are not doing this. I love our house. We love our neighbors. We have, you know, the perfect house to raise our family in. I'm like, I'm not doing it. So like any smart husband, he dropped it and didn't say anything about it for a couple of days. And, um, but as it started to sink in and I thought about, okay, you know, this is how much equity we have and this is what we could put down on this loan. And

then we could live there for free and no mortgage, rent and i thought you know what this is really a no-brainer so we put our house on the market and it sold in six days and the rest is history i suppose so that was what we did to get started so how much of the 60 000 came from that um that? About $20,000. Okay. So, yeah, we still had $40,000 to go. Cool. Well, Pastor Craig and I have been good friends for a long time as well, and he's a great man. He's a great speaker, too. Easy to follow something when he inspires you. Oh, yeah.

So, good stuff. Well, way to go, you guys. So, other than selling your house, what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? Because you still paid off another $40,000 out of pocket, right? Yeah, oh, definitely. And I think it's all about your why. You've got to have a huge why. What was your why all of a sudden?

It was my three kids. Okay. Yes, I love them to death. Okay. And just thinking that we're changing their lives and their family. Amen. It's amazing. That's a big why.

Once you get your family tree, say, the kids are going to be different, the life's going to be different, my grandkids are going to have it different. Exactly. Yeah you get your family tree, say, the kids are going to be different. The life's going to be different. My grandkids are going to have it different. Exactly. Yeah. I want 100 years from now, I want them to think about the sacrifice that their great-grandparents made to help them get to that point. Amen. And you did.

You sold the house, moved into the relative's paid-for house out in the middle of nowhere and all that kind of stuff. Yeah, that's real. It's very real. I remember distinctly slapping my fist on the table one night and just aggravated. And I said, this is it. I'm the last Ramsey that's going to be in debt. It stops here. At least in this leg of the family tree, I'm going to break the chains. We're not doing this anymore.

And I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. I am done. I am so done. This is it. That's it. I've had it. And that change, you've just got to have that who strengthens me, I'm done. I am so done. This is it. That's it. I've had it. And that changed. You've just got to have that moment where you go, I'm done.

And something flipped with Craig saying that, do it by the end of the year, and you looked at the girls and the kids and said, that's it. We've got to change this. Yeah, we see it all the time. We have so many friends that want to do your program, but they're not committed to go all in, and you have to be able to go all in and sacrifice but without that why you'll never make that that true sacrifice you need and the funny thing is the why was always there yep you just had to decide it was there i mean it wasn't like you had those kids all

of a sudden yeah i mean 13 months ago you didn't have three kids i mean you know so they were always walking around the house underfoot you know but all of a sudden the things came together and you went, oh, we've got to do this. Yeah, that's so cool. And Abby can tell you a little bit about how we got them involved. And it was great. Yeah, we decided that we wanted to get them involved. And it also helped me because I'm the free spirit and I got easily discouraged. So we made a chart and we

had all these circles on it and all the circles were blank. And at the top it said Disney World because we added a baby step. We decided when we were done, we were going to Disney World. Each circle was $100 and we let the kids color in the circles at the end of the week every time we paid something off or, you know, as we went along and they loved it so much and they were always fighting over who got to color the circles in. And it helped too, like when we went to the store and they, you know, want a toy like most kids do. And we would say, now, do you really want that toy or do you want to pay off debt and go to Disney World?

So I will never forget shortly after that started, our middle daughter, I was in the kitchen and I was just joking because our house was a mess as it usually is with three kids. And I said, where is our cleaning lady at? And she goes, now, Mom, would you rather have a cleaning lady or would you rather pay off debt and go to Disney World? So we were like, okay, I think they understand what we're doing. It sunk in. It sunk in.

Because they had sacrificed a lot, too, because we actually, they had to change schools for this. They had to share a room. They had to make a lot of sacrifices, too. So we wanted to involve them in it. So that's how we did that. And the thing is, it's not forever. Right. It's live like no one else so that later you can live and give like no one else.

Right. It's not like you're going to live in that house that you're living in today for the rest of your life. No, please no. It's just a period of time. It's a stopping place. Right, right. It's a stopping place on your journey. So way to go, you guys.

Very, very well done. Thanks. I'm very proud of y'all. Thank you. You took control of your lives. stopping place right right it's a stopping place on your journey so way to go you guys very very well done very proud of y'all congratulations you took control of your lives that's that's so heroic it's so powerful and uh and you did change your family tree we know that because the kids got it and the math is there to prove that you did it too but the main thing is is they they'll never forget this yeah they will never forget that weird, weird year. Right. That everything changed. Yes, of course. Very cool.

Well, and you brought them with you. Oh, yes. And their names and ages are what? We have Eliza, who's nine, and Leah, who's six, and Drew, who's three. All right. Very cool. Good job. Very neat.

Well, we've got a copy of Chris Hogan's book, Retire Inspired, for you. That's the next chapter in your story. Become millionaires and be outrageously generous along the way. And you're well on your way. I mean, you make $120 a year, you've got no payments. How does that feel? Right. It's great.

That's pretty rocking right there, I'll tell you. It is. It's amazing. Just the other day, Abby said, I came home and there's no bills in the mail. Yeah. It's an incredible feeling. I had a friend of mine. He said his goal was to have more mutual fund statements coming in the mail than he used to have bills come.

He wants to show how much money is building up instead of how much is going out. Right. Very cool stuff. All right. Derek and Abby, Eliza, Lee, and Drew, count it down. Lima, Ohio, $60,000 paid off in 13 months, making $100,000 to $120,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Ready? Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Love it, love it, love it. Well done, you guys. Well done. And that's how it works. Now, does everybody sell their house?

No, that's unusual, really. They had an unusual situation where they could move into a debt-free house as a stop on the journey. And they'll figure out a way to wander back into the house they want now. And everything will be fine. But it didn't pay off but 20 of their 60, too. Look at that. It did in 13 months. So what are you going to do?

Yeah, you. What's your why? Why would it be worth it to build wealth and be generous? What's your why? You need a bigger one because it will change your life. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I get asked all the time, when in the baby steps is the right time to buy life insurance? My answer is typically now.

Life insurance is not part of the baby steps because it's needed when your family has debt and not enough savings to provide for their financial needs. That's when they're at the highest risk. And no matter where you are in your baby steps, it's a necessity, not a choice. This includes working husbands and wives as well as stay-at-home parents. It's pretty expensive to replace those stay-at-home parent responsibilities. I only recommend term life insurance since it's the most affordable way to get the right amount of coverage and not break your budget. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282.

These are the guys I personally use. Term life insurance is inexpensive, and your family needs this no matter where you are in your baby steps. That's Zander.com. Or call 800-356-4282. Zander.com. Thanks for joining us, America. Lena is with us in Columbia, South Carolina. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show, Lena. Hi, thanks for having me.

Sure, what's up? Well, I just wanted to get your advice. I have a parent who is financially irresponsible. I'm trying to prepare for the inevitable request for money or to co-sign on a loan, and I don't want any additional debt, and I'm only on baby step two in the program. I signed up for the Financial Peace University and I'm working through the material. How old are you? I'm 30.

And how old is your parent? 65. Mom? Yes. Okay. Well, the first thing I want you to do is I'm going to send you a copy of a book called boundaries and boundaries allows you to put boundaries between you and any relative um that is requesting something that is unreasonable okay okay and um it's not that we don't love them if she wanted you to give her money to buy cocaine, you would not do that.

That's an unreasonable request, correct? Right, right, absolutely. So you would throw up a boundary immediately. So it's not unloving to put up boundaries. As a matter of fact, in that case, it would be loving because we're not going to allow her to destroy her life. We're not going to participate in her destroying her life. And so we're not going to participate in her destroying her life and so we're not going to participate financially in insanity we're not going to participate financially in enabling by giving a drunk a

drink so somehow we've got to be a blessing to mom because we love her right and that's what boundaries will help you grasp because the father or the daughter-mother relationship is one of the most difficult to say no to because moms in this scenario are often travel agents for guilt trips. Absolutely. She will sign you up for a guilt trip. They are good at it. And they don't mean to be. It's just how they function, you know. So anyway, so let's lay down a couple of boundaries.

Number one is if she were to call to ask you to co-sign, the answer is simply no. Now, the way I would answer her is, Mom, you know, I know you've been doing stuff this way your whole life, and I've been going through a financial class, and I've decided I don't borrow money anymore. And so that means I can't sign on any notes anymore because i don't borrow money for anything ever well that's crazy i know you think that mom i understand that but i don't borrow money anymore so i will be unable to co-sign i just can't and the answer is simply no you cannot because co-signing 100 of the time is a stupid idea because it's a problem you going to get yourself in a problem.

Okay, now, do we want to help her with some money? Possibly. Possibly. If it takes her down a path that causes her to win, okay? And she's 65 years old. Does she have an income? Does she work? No.

Okay. She lives on disability. She lives on her disability. Okay, so we have a fixed income, and that's a tight income to start with, No. Okay. She's on disability. She lives on her disability. Okay. So we have a fixed income, and that's a tight income to start with, but then on top of that, it gets tighter because she is disorganized and misbehaves with it. Right. Okay.

So probably help her to go through the financial peace class. You think? Okay. As an example. If she's willing. Yeah. If she's willing, yes. Well, I wouldn't be willing to give her money if she wasn't willing,

and I'll pay for her to go through if I was her son. Mm-hmm. Okay. And so it would sound like, Mom, you know what? I can probably help you with this bill. And if you need $200 to pay this bill, I can do that. I'll help you, okay? But the only way I'm going to help you is if you go and learn some of this stuff I've been learning.

Because I'm worried about you, Mom, and I want you to be good with money, and I want you to have fun again. And you haven't had fun with money in a long time, Mom, and I really want you to win. And I just love you so much, and so I'm going to pay for this, and I'm going to give you the $200. But I'm not going to give you the $200 if you don't promise to go to the class. Because I want good things for you. Right.

Now, if she gets mad at that, then she's got other issues, doesn't she? Absolutely. And she might have other issues. Because sometimes people don't like that, you know. But I'm unwilling to give a drunk a drink. I am willing to help them to win long term. I'm unwilling to participate in her continued misbehavior with money by just giving her money and bailing her out because that doesn't change her habits. We've got to change her habits with some new information.

And that means going to class. And that's good, you know, because she's only 65. She could live 30 years. Right. And that 30 years on a disability income, you've got to really watch what you're doing. And then over on your side of the equation, you just walk your baby steps,

and you do the stuff you're supposed to be doing, handling money the way we're teaching you to handle money and as you build wealth you're going to be more and more able to help and it not bother your finances but even then you know i'm multi-millionaire i can do anything i want to do with money financially virtually within reason to help somebody but even then we're very careful when we help someone that we actually are helping them and we're not participating in their insanity right and so i don't want to enable exactly and so you know dave that's tough love no it's just love all love has a tough element to it it's is it tough love to make your kid learn to brush their teeth no it's just love because you want them to have teeth in their head when they're older

you know you don't want them right out of their head so it's a tough love to make your kid do their homework well if you want to call it that you can but i just call it love because they need to be able to study so they can get good grades and get out and you know earn a living and so on and so it's just loving people around us well, but it's easier just to throw money at stuff. It doesn't require any emotional investment. And what I'm asking you to do is even harder than just throwing money at something. Does that make sense?

That does, and I do want to help her, and I want to see her succeed. There you go. I don't want to see her struggling, but at the same time, I want to avoid the guilt chip. So I think that response, I think that's very reasonable, and that's the approach that I'll take. It is, and if she responds poorly to it, it might be temporary. It might be she just sees, she may throw a little hissy fit, see if it'll push you over the edge. She may try that. That's not unusual when you put up a boundary. So be ready for it.

You're not crazy. You're not unloving. You're sane and loving. And that's what I'm telling you, and that's what the book Boundaries will remind you of. So hold on. Kelly will pick up. We'll send you a copy of that. So many people, like almost every one of us listening, deal with something like this at some point in your life.

You have someone, a friend, a relative, or whatever, that is inappropriate in their approach to help that they're soliciting. And, man, I have made some people mad. I had a guy drop in here one time at the front desk, a stranger off the street, and he said, I need to see Dave Ramsey. God told me this morning that Dave was going to give me a van, a new van for my family. And they called me. I went out front. I sat down and talked to him.

And he said, God told me that you were going to give me a van. And I said, no, he didn't. He said, what do you mean? I said, no, he didn't. Because I talk to God every morning, and if God told me that I was to give you a van, there'd be one sitting out here with car keys in it. And he didn't tell me. And so that's not God you're talking to.

That's last night's pizza, or you're a manipulative twerp. I'm not sure which it is, but you've got a problem on your spiritual hearing because God did not tell me to buy you a van. And so guess what? You're not getting a van today. He was angry. I'm not a real Christian. Dave Ramsey's not a real Christian.

Can you imagine him saying that to me? I hurt my little feelings for about like not at all. Because I knew that's what was coming. I mean, of all the dad-blame gall to walk into a place and say, God told me, as if he's the only one that talks to God. I mean, people, some people's kids, I mean, unbelievable. But when you set boundaries with people that have inappropriate boundaries, sometimes you get an angry response, don't you? Because you're just supposed to bow down because they said so, because I said so.

Moms and dads, brothers and sisters, team members, employees, employers, quote-unquote friends, even sometimes God help us preachers do it, violate boundaries. That's why Henry Cloud sold about 8 million of those boundaries books right there. There's a bunch of folk that need them. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. I'm excited to announce that we're now carried on 600 radio stations across the country. To find one near you, head to DaveRamsey.com slash show.

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