The Ramsey Show - App - That’s Broke People Math! (Hour 1)

Episode Date: November 10, 2023

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in your life. We do that by helping you win in your money, in your work, and in your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by George Camel, my good pal, and the author of a soon-to-be-released book. And it's a good one.

We'll talk about that coming up. But the phone number to jump in is 888-825-5225, 888-825-5225. Let's go. You ready, George? I'm stoked. All right. Oh, you're stoked. Did you put your skateboard underneath? That's what the young folks say. Let's go. You ready, George? I'm stoked. You're stoked. Did you put your skateboard

underneath? That's what the young folks say. That's very interesting. You're stoked. Well, let's go to Stephen in Charlotte, North Carolina. Stephen, I'm Ken. George is stoked. How can we help you? Hi, George and Ken. How are you today? We're having a blast. What's up?

Alright, guys. So, George, a special thank you, first off, for reaching out to me to get me here on the show. George is calling callers now? What is happening? It feels like we have a boundary. Listen, Stephen, he sent me a DM yesterday with his question. I said, hey, I want to dig into this. Will you call the show?

This is a perfect call for Ken and I to take. I want to hear Ken's thoughts. Oh, all right. So we got him scheduled, and I'm so elated that he was able to call. You really are a man of the people. You are a man of the people. Exactly. What can I say?

That's what happened right there. All right, Stephen, what's going on? All right, guys, so as I mentioned to George, I'm a former lottery winner. I won a million dollars. A million dollars a million dollars yeah a million dollars on a scratch ticket um in the state of virginia when i was 28 and i'm 36 now and i have gone through it all um down to zero yeah so i am a part of that statistic that, I don't know, 80% or 90% of lottery winners lose it. I swore that I wouldn't be, but here I am.

What was your take-home? What was the take-home after the... Yeah, $766,000 was what the actual ticket was worth. It wasn't actually worth a million dollars. I know that's what they advertised. Right. And then I paid taxes on that. So take-home was $555,000.

Okay. And over the span of eight years, you drained that $5.55 in your bank account to zero. Yes, sir. For the benefit of the listeners and a dark curiosity, can you tell us where that money went? Yeah. So, I mean, obviously I bought the ticket, so I gambled to buy the ticket, right? So that never stopped. It was more so with casinos, sports gambling, etc. Quite embarrassed by it, you know? Absolutely. Well, this is clearly, there's addictive behavior here.

Have you dealt with that over the last eight years? Are you still grappling with that? Yes. I've reached out to Gamblers Anonymous. I actually have an appointment set up to speak with someone to hopefully get me over the addiction and move forward. Is this the first step you've taken as we're talking now? What's that? Is that the first step you've taken as we're talking now? What's that? Is that the first step you've taken to get control of this? Yes, and I realized that it was an issue, but, you know, still would go at it. Wow.

So would you say it was largely gambling? Did you buy, you know, a house, a car? Did you upgrade your lifestyle? Definitely upgraded the lifestyle. A little bit. I did buy a new car. I paid cash for it when I won. I paid off my debts, except for one, I had two student loans. I did not pay off the federal student loan. I paid off the private student loan. And that's the debt that I carry today. I don't have a car debt. Okay. Well, we're going to help you take the right next step. We're

not here to beat you up. We know you've been dealing with this addiction on top of now kind of being at rock bottom. So lay it out for us. Are you working right now and what's your income? Yes, sir. I'm in restaurant management. My income is $75,000. Good. And how much debt do you have left? $29,000. All right. And how much money do you have in the bank, if any? About $6,000. Okay. That's good news. And are you single? I have a girlfriend. Not married, but I have a girlfriend, and we do live together. Okay. And the $29,000, is that one student loan or a bunch of student loans? What kind of debt is that?

It's two different federal student loans that total the $29,000. Okay. So we can start to chip away at that with some of the savings. You have your $1,000 emergency fund. Now we're going to debt snowball these pretty quickly, making $75, knocking out $29. How quickly could you do that? Well, I have roughly $2,400 a month left over after all bills are paid. So divide that into the roughly $30,000, so what, 15 months, 16 months? Yeah, you'll be done with this in under a year. I mean, 2,400 a month, that's 29 grand in a year.

So let's focus on knocking this out over the next 12 months. Then we're going to get a fully funded emergency fund so that you never have to go back into debt again so you have financial foundation. But the bigger piece is getting our spending under control and getting this addiction under control. Yeah, yeah. I don't really spend all that much. I don't live a

highfalutin lifestyle. I just, I gamble, you know, and that's, that's where it's going. Have you cut off the ability to gamble, whether it's your friend group, whether it's the cards, whatever it is that's enabling you to do this, have you cut those pieces off? I don't really know how to cut that. have a couple of friends that that are well aware of what's going on um and you know we've spoken in detail and are they the kind of people that will challenge you hold you accountable check in on you will you be honest with them could you listen to them absolutely yeah they they have done that We haven't spoken recently. We had a conversation about six months ago about all of it. I haven't stopped since then.

Do you have any credit cards open? No, sir. Okay. What are you gambling on right now? Is it football or what is it? Yeah, I'll do sports gambling. Is that through an app or website? No, it's just live. Okay. Because the one thing you can do is delete all the apps,

delete all your logins, all your payment info for all these sites. You can block these sites too through your browser. Yeah. I think we need to put some software steps in place. I think George is right. Steven, I think you have to do that, but you have to have some accountability. Like your girlfriend, like it would be like- And Gamblers Anonymous will help with that, for sure. It will, but I think you need to decide today. I'm not, again, in any way taking away from therapy or anything else, but I do think you need some accountability. And I would almost treat your gambling like I would a teenager looking at stuff they shouldn't look at on a phone. And I would get the girlfriend involved or a really close friend and set it up to where they set up where there's

notifications or something. There's got to be a way to do this. But at the end of the day, you're going to have to just decide, can I wean myself off of this? Can I watch, can I go through one weekend, one weekend at a time? Can I just go through a weekend and not gamble? Yeah. And I've, you know, I've always been, I've always held myself accountable in all areas of life. Except this one. Yeah, except this. Well, so here's the deal. It's frustrating. I know it's frustrating. And again, I think you need help. And I would absolutely go and get with a therapist. I would. I'd make that, I'd make a couple phone calls today. I think you need to take action on this and also some accountability. And you know calls today. I think you need to take action on this and also some

accountability. And you know what else? I think you ought to put that competitive fire into making some more money. I'm going to challenge you professionally. What if two or three rungs up the professional ladder for you? Give yourself a challenge to go make more money by growing professionally. Thanks for the call. Appreciate your honesty, Stephen. We're going to walk with you on this. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win in your life with your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken. He is George over there. Say hi to America, George. Hi. And we're here for you. 888-825-

5225. That's not how I expected that to play out. It felt like you were egging it on. You sounded like a 10-year-old. Yeah, you were egging that vibe on, so I went with it. It's called improv. Well, you know, George, I knew you when you were single. That's true. And so

tomorrow, this would have been a day that would be an exciting day for you but thankfully thankfully you uh somehow coerced whitney what day is this it's called singles day are you aware of this never heard of every there's a day for everything and in my hands here uh i've got a announcement for uh 11 11 Singles Day, the largest shopping day in the world. And people are always looking for an excuse to spend money. That's your area. So we just made a holiday to make it happen.

So we jumped in on it. Why not? Get in on the fun. It's happening. So Dave said, get there. So what we're doing is a one-day sale only on Saturday. You can get our best-selling books like Total Money Makeover, Baby Steps a Millionaire, From Paycheck to Purpose, Own Your Past, Change Your Future for just $11.

Whoa. Okay, this is pretty meta because we have the $12 sale, but just for one day only, you get a dollar off. $11, yeah. And it's not just if you're single. Now, it's aimed at the singles, but truth be told, we can't police that on the website. We can't. So there you go.

And you can also get my Get Clear accessible, the digital. For $11? For $11. That's normally $30. I don't know how my kids are going to eat next month. Highway robbery. I'm going to talk to Dave about this. I'm not happy at all.

That's too steep of a discount. But you, the people, win as usual. So it's $11 sale all over the website, RamseySolutions.com slash store, ramsaysolutions.com slash store. I have no idea what Singles Day had to do with that unbelievable offer. Just one more reason to celebrate, Ken. My job is to read the notes. It's time for the Ramsey Dating app. The Ramsey Dating app. That's the next one, Ken, that we'll never make.

From Singles Day to the City of Brotherly Love. Chris is joining us now in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Chris, you're on the Ranger Show. How can we help? Ken, George, thanks for taking my call. How are you today? We're good. Sorry, I got a little chuckle going on here. What can we do for you? Sure. So I'm giving you a call here because unfortunately it appears that I'll be losing my job here in the very near future. Oh no. What's going on? I'm sorry. What's happening? My company is experiencing some financial difficulties. They had a lower interest rate for a very long time and

like most individuals, they work off of debt as a company. Are you in the financial sector? I am in the pharmaceutical sector, small pharmaceutical company. So their debts, they can't keep up with. They've off-boarded about 20% of the company, and I think I'm coming due. Is this like in a week, or is this a month? Do you have any idea of the timeline? It could be anywhere from a week to the next month. That's correct. Okay. And you are certain that you have already been selected to be laid off? I'm 90% confident that it'll occur. Okay. What do you make? Currently, I make $135,000 with a 10% targeted bonus, so about $150,000 a year. But I am married and have a one-year-old daughter as well. My wife is fortunately a teacher making $70,000 a year,

and she has tenure. So at minimum, we have that going for us. Is that enough to cover the bills if it was just her income? I'll have a super majority of those bills. I'll tell you, George, we live with our purse strings very tight. Our basic needs, we run at about 40% of our budget. Our savings and debt reduction, we've been going crazy at 46%. And we live with a menial 15% of our nice-to-haves through our budgeting. Okay. So how much debt do you have? We have $110,000 left, and it is our mortgage.

Oh, okay. So no consumer debt, and the mortgage is reasonable as a part of your take-home pay? It is $1,800 a month, and we, as a total, from a net perspective, bring home approximately, hold on, $12,000. Wonderful. Okay. So you are in a solid financial position, which gives me great joy during this time of stress that you're going to be okay financially. And so now it's up to you to find that next job, which Ken is, he's the man for that. Yeah. So what do you do in pharmaceuticals? Sure. I'm a transparency specialist. The pharmaceutical industry has a very niche requirement through the government. It's a compliance role, but essentially we look at

financial transactions and disclose payments to doctors. It's a very niche area, but I've also worked in finance for six years. So I'm covered across the financial and pharmaceutical industry. I've been putting my resume out for about a month here and I have not received the requests to interview as I would like to. So I'm rehashing my resume here. Well, that's fine. And I love that. And we've got a free resume guide, which I'll make sure that we get to you at the end of our call. It's a free resource. And we've got a free resume guide, which I'll make sure that we get to you at the end of our call. It's a free resource. We've also got some great templates that'll help you stand out. But you are exhibit A on this idea of, I'm just going to throw a bunch of resumes

out there. It is very, very hard to get noticed in today's world because of two factors. Number one, almost every company is using some form of artificial intelligence to filter through resumes. And so you're kind of playing the resume lottery, you know, or the slot machine. If one word's not right, you know what I'm talking about. The second thing that's going on is a lot of high demand. People are looking for the higher paid positions. And so you need the edge. And the edge is the personal connection. So what you need to be doing right now, this is old school, but I mean, this is a piece of paper, a notebook. You can create a spreadsheet if you feel more comfortable doing it on a computer. But you've got to start looking at

the jobs you've already applied for. You already sent resumes out. They may have moved on. Maybe they haven't. But with those as examples, you want to start asking yourself, you'll make a list of these companies and you say, do I know somebody that works in that building or works in a building connected to that building, right? The idea is, do I know anybody that works for that organization? Question one. Question two is, do I know somebody that knows somebody over there? And what we're attempting to do here is we've got to get through the hiring filter, the AI and all of that stuff. We've got to get somebody who takes your resume, Chris, to the hiring manager says, here's how I know Chris. I've known Chris since high school. We played blank together or whatever, whatever, whatever, right? Or I've got

a really good friend who knows this guy, Chris, and the guy's really qualified and he's applied online. Hadn't gotten anything yet. I think I ought to look at him. It is that kind of exercise. And then you got to be talking to everybody that you run into. I mean, you run into a parent at a basketball practice. You're talking to them, getting to know them. They're going to say, what do you do? You tell them what's going on. I'm looking for something like this. You have got to make getting an opportunity for an interview a full-time focus.

That has to be the game. And it's pretty simple, but that's what you've got to be doing right now. And in the meantime, I would also be plotting out what happens if I don't get a job interview, George, before I get laid off. So I'm looking at side hustles, things that would be the gig economy. Is there any freelance work available for a guy like you with a lot of finance background? Is there any freelance work in your specific niche work? Probably not, but that's what I'm looking at. I'm looking at what I have from a skill standpoint and an experience standpoint that allow me to make some freelance money so that if I get laid off and I haven't landed a gig yet between my wife's income, how frugal you guys are,

even if it's 30 or 40% of what you were making, it just takes all the stress away because you guys have been so disciplined. Now, I know I hit you with a lot, but a real quick question. We've only got about a minute, about 45 seconds. Do you want to stay in the role that you're in? If we were to find that for you today, would you stay in that or do you want to move on, take this opportunity to move on? I'd honestly love to go back into finance, but honestly, the call and question that I wanted to jump into, I'm going back to my contacts in finance to get a role. Strategically, I know that's what I'm going to be able to do. Tactically, I'm looking at this and I'm just asking. Obviously,

we need to slow down our debt payment here. Yes. Moving down to just the core items. That's correct. Make sure that we're covering our basic debt. You're in storm mode, which means we're pausing the baby steps. Let's stack up a whole bunch of cash until we get stability. Then we can move forward.

You'll pay off that house in no time. That's right. It's the only debt you've got left. You're in great shape and you're very disciplined. This is a blip for you. It's a bump in the road. You're going to be fine. Thanks for the call, Chris. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever

to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs.

CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Helping you win with your money, winning your work, and winning your relationships. This is the Ramsey Show. So excited to be with you today. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is with me this hour.

And we have a fantastic live studio audience in the lobby today. We really do. A rowdy bunch. We have to contain them. Yeah. No, they're not very rowdy. I love when you say rowdy bunch and there's one guy out there that was like arms crossing and just went slowly. I'm rowdy. They're a littledy bunch. We have to contain them. Yeah. No, they're not very rowdy. I love when you say rowdy bunch and there's one guy out there that was like arms crossing. It was sarcastic.

I'm rowdy. They're a little miffed. I'm rowdy. They're a little miffed now because we called attention to them. They're on the edge. They're lovely people. And there's a lady waving at us. Hi.

Nice to see you, ma'am. Good to see you. Good reminder that you can come visit us. You can come visit us. See the show live. We have free coffee, free baked goods. The show is free. The show is free. The show is free.

And we come out and take pictures with you whether you want us to or not. That's always not awkward. So, you know, that whole thing is great. So, to the phones we go. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Emma joins us in Los Angeles, California. Emma, how can we help?

Hi, George. Hi, Ken. I'm calling because I know you'll help lock some sense into me. I'm in baby step 3B and I am hoping to start saving. I mean, I'm saving for a home, but here in California, like I'll have to save a hundred thousand dollars to like just get in and down payment so that my monthly payment will be ridiculously high. And it'll take me like two to three years to pay for that. But I started to look into this house buying process. And I qualify for like a loan of $500,000, but it's just going to be a high monthly payment. And I do have health fever and I want to start planning for my retirement.

So if I jump the gun and pull the plug next year, even though I don't have the $100,000 yet, you know, I'm just starting to save. I just feel like I'm starting my retirement planning kind of late. How old are you? I'm 39. Oh my goodness, you're ancient. Easy, George. I know. Three years from now, you're going to be 42? You can't tell women that. What's wrong with you? You're going to have to find a house with no stairs. I'm not sure you're going to be able to walk up those things. You know they have those little chairs that go slowly up the stairs. We could get her one of those. I do need one floor because I do have arthritis, and so I cannot imagine myself going up the stairs.

I nailed it. Oh, geez. That's going to limit the housing options already. Okay. Emma, let's walk through this. So there's this home buying program. Is that what you're saying that will allow you to put less down and qualify for more loan? Yeah, like an FHA loan.

Ugh, gross. Okay, so the problem- Let's talk about house fever first. Yeah, the house fever, I don't know that I can squelch. You're frustrated by high rent prices. You want to be putting your money towards something, building equity, instead of, I'm quoting this, throwing away money on rent. Did I nail it?

Yes, of course you did. Okay. So that's very understandable. I have a lot of empathy for many people out there who want to be homeowners. They've been working for a long time and they're going, this should just be possible for me. Real quick here. And it feels impossible. And I want you to walk through here, but on this fever issue, I think I can address the house fever.

All right, hit me. Because when I moved here with our family, what, nine years ago? I got into Williamson County, and I started driving around on the roads. And I want to make sure you hear this, Emma. And I got what is known as land fever. Oh, boy. Yeah. That's full-on Yellowstone. Oh, boy.

I was looking at large parcels of land where we could, with a house or where we would build. And I just got in love with it. And I'm not kidding you. There were two or three nights a week I would, on my way home, I would go check out things and my wife would be like, Hey, dinner's almost ready. Where are you? And I would like, and I'd FaceTime her. I'm like, look at this, you know? And I was, I'm not kidding. I really got into it. So in all seriousness, I know what it's like. And so what you have to do is what I had to do. I was not in a place financially to be able to buy that, but it's like I was wishing and wishing and I got so sucked into the wishing and the looking. And it's kind of like the old days where you looked at a catalog,

you know, and it's just, at some point you got to burn the catalog, throw the catalog away. And I'm telling you, George is going to walk you through this, but I think it's really smart that you put some ice on this fever. And I think you got to stop thinking about buying a house, stop looking at houses and be really laser focused because we know from all kinds of scientific and psychological data about the power of focus. I'll give you an example. You remember the last time you bought a car, Emma? Do you remember that? Yes.

What was the car? A Toyota RAV4. And what color was that Toyota RAV4? Silver. Silver. Do you remember seeing a silver RAV4 all over the road for the first three, four, five days? You remember that? Yeah. Now I see them days. You remember that? Yeah.

Now I see them everywhere. You see them everywhere. Did the car ferry just drop in Toyota RAV4s all of a sudden on the road? The answer is no. Here's the exercise. What we focus on is what we see everywhere. And the power of focus is unbelievable. And I'm going to give you right back to George on this because the process he's going to walk you through and this idea that,

oh, I'm wasting money on rent and I keep looking at houses and I'm not ready to buy a house. But I know I'm not ready to buy a house, but I'm going to find this little program that'll make me ready to buy a house when in all reality, you're not ready to buy a house. And I wasn't ready for the land back then. I'm still not ready for the land I want. The good news is I don't have land fever anymore because guess what I'm not looking at all the time, George? Houses. Land. Land parcels.

I'm not looking at dirt, you know? And so that's really important. Yeah. Well, Emma, the problem with these programs and what you're talking about for the listener's benefit is the Federal Housing Administration, FHA, loans. And they're designed for people who don't qualify for conventional mortgages do you know why they don't qualify i'm assuming because they don't have enough money because private lenders are saying this is way too much risk even for a lender to take on they're going no thanks that's so the

government swoops in to be the savior allowing broke people to get into homes for a little 3.5% down, which sounds great. But then think about this. That means you're financing 96.5% of that on top of something they charge you called mortgage insurance premium, MIP, 1.75% right there, plus an annual premium between 0.15% and 0.75% for the life of the loan. So you're paying an extra stupid tax on top of borrowing way more while you already didn't have the money to afford the mortgage payment. And then here's what happens, Emma. There's going to be a call during this show where someone calls in and says, hi, I'm calling from California. We bought too much house before we could really afford it on one of these home buyer programs. We can't afford it because it's now 70% of our take-home pay is going toward this mortgage because we thought this home was going to be

a blessing. Turns out it's a burden because now the HVAC's broken and we have no money to fix it. Do you see where I'm going with this? Yes. Yeah. So I don't want that to become you because I care about your future too much. And if that means Emma has to rent for two more years than she wanted to, I'm okay with that. Yep. Renting is buying patience. I'm sick of people telling you that renting is a sin and you're wasting money. And one more thing, you live in California and you're not held hostage there. You know, I'm not saying you have to go leave California. If you love it there and you have a good job there, that's great. We have to remind ourselves, we're not stuck with where we are.

I moved from Boston to Mobile to Nashville. And depending on where you live, home ownership may not be in the cards for the next five years or 10 years. If you live in Manhattan, I don't know that you're going to be a homeowner in this lifetime in Manhattan, because it's insane. And so we've got to start looking at other options, resetting expectations. Maybe you're going to get a condo 30 minutes away instead of the single family home in the town that you're in. And that's going to involve some sacrifice. That may mean we have a longer commute to work. And so we have to weigh all of these options, move with patience, and also look at what you can do to

speed up the process. Look at getting your income up. Is that a possibility? What do you make? I make about $100,000. Nice. Wonderful income. And do you have any debt? You're in Baby Step 3B. No. So we're debt-free. And do you have any debt? You're in Baby Step 3B. So we're debt-free. What do you do for a living? I do a little bit of, I do like sales and I do product group managing. You know, I'm telling you, you need to be looking at some gigs. The gig economy, which is nothing more than freelancing.

George is right, and of course I'm always going to agree with him on, hey, how can we make extra money to speed this timeline up? I'd put that anxiousness and that house fever into money fever. Freelance. You're a professional, make six figures. How can you freelance and make an extra $30,000, $40,000, $50,000? That's what you need to be focused on because all of a sudden we fast forward everything. And George is right. By the way, George, I love when you get fired up. I get real angsty.

People don't know that what you just did was your version of a rant because you're so mellow. But I thought it was great. Appreciate that. And I think you're right. What people don't realize is that renting isn't wasting money. It's actually biding time and I think keeping your options open as opposed to getting too much house. So really good rant, George. Run it back, folks. Run it back and watch it back. He's seething. You just can't tell. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Campbell joins me. The phone number for you to jump in today is 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Okay, I don't know how many people that are listening and watching today pay attention to news headlines or the news period. I really don't know. That feels like a personal attack on me ken but it's fine you took that personally how much news do you watch not much sometimes i'll watch like a late night show monologue just to digest some of what happened in

a fun way but that's about it no kidding unless ken tells me about it are you not on a news website well i'm busy in the personal finance world you you know, being a nerd. Well, first of all, I'm not judging you, but boy, oh boy, did you take that and run with it. That's what I do. But, okay, so Georgia's a prime example. Now, I'm on the other side of it. You're always following the news. I'm paying attention to the news because somebody has to. Thank you, Ken. You went first. So brave. Listen, it is what it is. I like to know what's going on. So here's what's going on. If you do pay attention to went first. I know. So brave. Listen, it is what it is. I like to know what's going on. So here's what's going on. If you do pay attention to the news.

Now, George, this will all be news to you. That was a good pun. You like that? Golly. Americans say the economy stinks, but they're spending like it's great. This is a headline from CNN. Wow. I'm holding here this article in my hands.

Strong headline. And here's what is happening. By the way, I've been talking about this inflation has been high for some time even though it is slowing but still high, that's a negative job market, really good we have 3.9%

unemployment, millions more jobs available than there are people who are unemployed that's good wages are up, since the pandemic, hourly wages and salaries are up across the board. So the American people went, all right, we got more money, so let's spend it. They didn't save it. There was a little bit of a, in 2020, a prolonged season of saving, but that's gone. People are spending like drunken sailors. And it's crazy. 72% of all Americans say things in the country today are going badly.

And 66% said the economy will be extremely important when deciding who to vote for next year. But the problem is, and the word is conundrum used in the article, which, by the way, is a word we don't use enough. Underutilized. It really is. Because they're spending money on concerts. They're spending money eating out. They're spending money on clothes. Vacations.

Vacations. Credit card at an all-time high. Credit card debt at an all-time high. And by the way, I don't know if you saw this, Mr. Money News. This will be embarrassing for you if you didn't see this so you should go ahead and act like you saw okay okay the average apr the percentage rate on credit cards reached an all-time high last week with an average of 20.725 oof that's gonna leave a mark so you're smart like isn't that the equivalent of going i'm gonna going to go buy this,

but if I use my credit card, I'm actually paying 20% more? Oh, absolutely. But people don't think that way. Well, Ken, they're starry-eyed going, well, I'm going to pay the balance off. I'm going to get my 2% cash back, so I'm going to beat the system, Ken. And here we are at record high of $1.08 trillion in credit card debt, and you're going, how are you guys beating the system? And everyone self-selects out and go,

Ken, I'm smarter than that. But here we are spending like Congress while then saying the economy stinks and things are so bad, and yet we're out here, I guess, just with our head in the sand spending like crazy to cope with it. I got killed by the snowflakes on social media

when I put out an Instagram reel saying, your paycheck is not your problem, your budget is. Ooh. And I got lambasted. Can I guess what they were saying? They called me out of touch millionaire, you know, all these things. Like, I've got my head in the sand. What else did they say?

Let me guess what the comment section is. I'm going to sum it up. Yeah, but Ken, wages haven't kept up with inflation, and the guy in the White House and the Fed and the boomers, they ruined the housing market, and therefore we'll never get ahead, and someone needs to do something about this, but it's not up to me. It's up to everyone else. Did I sum it up?

Absolutely. And then how out of touch I am, except for paying attention to what I actually said was, is that if you can live on less than you make, and the real data from Ramsey Solutions, having polled, surveyed over 10,000 net worth millionaires, the third largest group being teachers, teachers aren't making bank.

They're just living on less than they make, George. Well, they got very few people to impress because they're just trying to survive with these kids out here, not trying to pull up in the beamer next to the uh right so co-workers there you go so i mean we're in this day and age where everybody wants to spend by the way can i make a just one little comment on the um my my pay isn't keeping up with inflation sure i can't stop you thank you very very much. So a healthy inflation rate, the Fed historically is trying to keep inflation at an inflation growth rate of 2% to 3% max, okay? So when people say idiotic things like my pay isn't keeping up with inflation, well,

most of the time in a normal inflationary season, like where that number kind of holds there in that 2% to 3% range, most companies are giving people an annual raise of about 3%. So that's where they get this nonsensical idea that my pay has to always keep up with inflation. But when we saw extraordinary inflation over the last three years, do any of these people realize that if companies had to try to keep up with the inflation that all the companies who've got a business. Well, the housing market jumps 30%.

We can't all just automatically get 30% raises because the company revenue didn't automatically jump 30%. And I want the youngster at Burger King to make good money when he's flipping the Whopper. But when we got to paying three or four dollars an hour, guess what else goes up? Anybody? The cost of the Whopper. The Whopper combo. So you're griping about how much you're making and you're griping about how much the food costs.

We've got to understand basic economics in this country. And everybody wants what they want because they want it. They don't understand what it takes to get it. And it's not somebody handing it to you. It's you going and getting it for crying out loud. There's my little... That was your Gen X rant of the day. Thanks for calling it a Gen X rant. I can't call you a boomer. No, I would be very upset. We couldn't be friends if you called me a boomer.

Anyway, back to the phones we go. Thanks for that. John in York, Pennsylvania. John, how can we help? Hey, guys. I have a question for you. I have a sports car that I am considering getting rid of or keeping. I wanted your advice on it.

Tell us about the car. It's a Mustang. It's worth about $60,000. It's actually gone up in value since I bought it. What year? What? What year is the Mustang? It's a 2017 oh okay so tell us more do you have debt on this yeah i owe about 15 000 more on it right now

um i could pay it off right now if i wanted to um i'm just waiting on a high-interest rate savings account to time out before I go and pay it off because I'm making more on the money in the bank versus paying off. No, no, John, that's broke people talk. That's some common core math right there. It just doesn't work. Oh, I see what you did there. What's your payment on this thing? It's about $1,000 a month.

Okay, so let's just do some basic math. You get rid of this payment, and you start investing $1,000 a month. Don't you think that's a better decision for your future than hanging on to a car payment to make a tiny spread in a savings account? Well, so that's my question. Should I sell the car and take all my equity in it and just invest that and be away with it, or should I keep it, get away with the payment, and start to invest it slowly? How much equity do you have?

Well, like I said, it's worth about $60,000. I've got about $15,000 left on it. Okay, so $45,000 would be your profit. You'd buy yourself a little car. Is this your only car? No. Oh, boy. I drive a company truck for work that's fully paid for by work.

Okay. Well, if you want a cool Mustang, go get you something from the 60s, my young friend. Let me tell you right now. That's what I would do. Ken, we're not looking for having to upgrade, all right? We're trying to help him out. No, I'm saying he cashes out, he saves, and then he gets himself a real Mustang. That's some healthy profit.

Somebody has to tell him. What do you make? I make about $120 a year. Okay. And what other debt do you have? My wife and I own a house that is worth about, our mortgage is about $300,000 left on it. Okay.

So, so far, you're not violating any principles. If your cars add up to more than half of your annual income, I'd go ahead and sell it. I still think because this is weighing on you and you called us, it sounds like selling this thing would be a relief for you. Yes. You can always go get a car later on when you are a millionaire and you got a paid-for house. That'd make me feel better.

Yeah. And again, a Mustang from the 60s. You pay cash. Thank you, Ken. It's going to be a better thing and it's worth something. It's going to grow in value. Not a 2017. All right, we've got to get out of here.

Good hour. Thanks, James, Charles, and everybody in the booth. Thank you, George. Thank you, America. This is The Ramsey Show.