The Ramsey Show - App - The Best Calls of the Year So Far (Part 5 - Hour 3)

Episode Date: November 24, 2023

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Walsh, our Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. As we answer your questions about your life and your money, we're going to talk about you right in front of you, baby. Open phones at 888-825-5225. The call is free and some say it's worth exactly what you pay for it. Kim is with us. Kim is in Asheville, North Carolina, starting off this hour. Hi, Kim. How are you? Hello, how are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? Okay, so I have a question. We hired a gentleman to do our taxes in March of this year, and we ended up hiring him to do financial planning for us as well. And after hiring him to do that, we discovered that he had filed bankruptcy twice and had been sued for writing a bad check. When?

The question is, well, he filed bankruptcy in 2019 was his last one. That was the second one. And it said the Certified Financial Planning Board revoked his right to use their certification mark. And then he also was sued for writing a bad check to a moving company. Recently? That was in 2018. And so we had already paid him a large fee to use him for financial planning. And I guess my question is, should this be of concern to us we have discussed this with him what did he say he says that we don't understand what it's

like to run our own business um and just basically was you know he was very rude about it and said his business would go on with or without us. Ooh. I want my money back. I am leaving. I don't care about the bankruptcy. If you're butt, I don't want to work with you. Right. You don't get to be rude to me about this. You're defensive, which means that, yeah.

Yeah, he was very defensive. I've been sued and I filed bankruptcy. But if you ask me about it, I'll just tell you. I almost feel like you have to. Not last week, but I mean, I'll just tell you. I almost feel like you have to. Not last week, but I mean, I'll just tell you, right? I almost feel like you opened with that. If that's part of your story, that's what's informed you to this point. He claimed that he told us in the contract, well, I made him send that back to us

because it disappeared after we signed it and we couldn't see our own copy. So he sent it to me a couple weeks ago there was a link that we could click in small print about this how much did you pay this guy fifteen hundred dollars okay will he refund you or not he will not okay i'm walking yeah we've talked i'm walking anyway i'm walking anyway well yeah we told him we were walking because we don't trust him and just because of his attitude exactly exactly it's not the thing it's the attitude okay because here's the thing okay let's say the moving company tore up 17 of his items and then they would then

they wanted to you know and then he unpacked it and found a vase that they were responsible for they don't want to refund him for the broken vase, so he stops payment on the check. They sue him. That's a valid story. Right. He also told me that he settled that check. I said, well, you didn't settle it or they wouldn't have sued you. Yeah.

Well, it's the attitude is the thing. It's like, look, hey, if I were in your shoes, here's the proper way to answer this question if I'm him. If I were in your shoes, I'd have these exact same concerns. I'm happy to tell you the details. Okay, here's what happened in this situation, and here's what happened in that situation. And the bankruptcy was not – you don't understand why it's like to run a business. The bankruptcy was I did some stupid butt things, I learned from it, and I'm not doing them anymore.

The check was the moving company misbehaved, and I used that as leverage, and it got out of hand, and they sued me, but they had no basis the judge threw it out yeah he blamed his ex-wife for the bad check i i don't care you see what i'm saying that if you had gone that way then he would have redeemed his credibility if he'd have been smarter and done what jade said and said up front what was going on as part of your story that's fine that's fine that's what we felt but i've been sued for things that i didn't do that they made up in an effort to try to basically use the court system to blackmail me to settle with them i refuse to settle with them so that gets all in the news so you can look up dave ramsey got sued but the basis of the lawsuits

are zero didn't absolutely did not occur. But it doesn't matter. You can sue somebody for anything in America. So I don't mind telling you that. That's happened, okay? But I've still got, you know, I've still got, if you want to be pissed at Dave Ramsey randomly, you can find places on the Internet that I did all kinds of things I didn't do. Yeah, well, you know, he said he was going to sue the certified financial planning board good luck

with that yeah and i was like how can you do that yeah he just sounds a little i don't i really don't like his attitude i don't like that he's defensive he sounds like he's pointing the finger blaming it doesn't sound like it's going to be a fun work environment for you to work with i'm walking away i think you should walk away and you already had walked, so you already knew the answer to the question. Yeah, she did. Well, she probably wanted to know if there was some way she could force him to get the money back, but I wouldn't put any effort into it. I'd just move on.

I don't think you're going to turn him into not being a jerk. Yeah. I think he's already got that one down. Well, if he hasn't done any work for them yet in that capacity, I feel like a good person would say, hey, you didn't know this. We haven't started this yet. Here's your money back. Even a not good person knows that some customers are worth more or more trouble than they're worth. And if I'm her and I disagree with her, I mean, if I'm him and I disagree with her, she's more trouble than she's

worth. Here's your money back. Yeah, go away. Even if I'm not a good person, it's worth just to get rid of them absolutely you know we fire a customer around here that misbehaves every so often they you can't call here and cuss at our people we don't allow you to do that yeah we'll give you your money back until you go away you know that's all right i don't put up with your junk because some customer service uh people in america their whole job is to get cussed at by rageaholics and we don't our customer service people i them, listen, just tell them no. Yeah.

Wait a minute, wait a minute. We don't talk like that here. We're not doing that. Just call somewhere else and be pissed off. Take your money that you're going to use here and use it for counseling. You need it. Just move on, right? But yeah, I mean, even if you're on the other side of it, it's worth it to get rid of them.

And I don't think Kim's that. I think Kim's figured this out. Yeah. The sad thing is that now she's questioning all financial people or planners. Yeah, whether or not they're trustworthy. I'll tell you what. You know, SmartVestor Pro will sit down with you. They don't charge you a thing because they make a commission off of selling you a mutual fund for your Roth IRA or your kid's college fund,

and they don't make anything unless they sell you something. So people are all suspect about that, but they're the good ones. They do it with the heart of a teacher. That's why we endorse SmartVestor Pros. We don't have any fee-based financial planners in our system that are upfront fees. Not because I'm mad at them. They just don't like us because I endorse mutual funds. Yeah, that makes sense.

And, you know, because here's the thing. There's a thing in the financial world, it's worth talking about this in the 20 seconds we've got, called the fiduciary. And you see there's one company running and they're lying about it on their TV ad during football. I saw it last two or three weekends. I can't think what it's called. A little green sign in the background. But, like, We are fiduciaries. We are fiduciaries. We don't make anything unless you make something. The word fiduciary means a person of trust. Can you trust someone that gets a commission? Yes. If they're trustworthy, all real estate agents are commission-based fiduciaries.

And they should put your interest first. But just because you get paid when they make a sale doesn't mean you can't have integrity. That's right. That's absurd. So that's the financial world right now. This is The Ramsey personality is our co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Thanks for being with us, America. We're here to serve you. Our joy comes when we can show you what to do,

and then you actually go do it, and it causes you to win. Bing, bing, that's how that works. That's what this has been about for 30- years now and it continues to be jody is with us in springfield illinois hi jody welcome to the ramsey show hi there hey what's up i well i'm kind of embarrassed to ask this question but i am a 50-old widow who has been widowed for 15 years. I have helped put my children through college, and I have no retirement. So I am ready to start retirement, and I don't even know where to begin and how much to put in. There's nothing embarrassing about any of that. It sounds like you're a wonderful person.

We just need to get on the ball, right? Yes. Yeah. So what do you make? I make about, I was just sitting here figuring this out. I bring home about $36, 000 take home a year okay so your income somewhere around in the low 40s uh maybe 45 yeah all right what do you do i am a social worker okay all right and do you have any debt i do do not. Your house is paid for?

Yes. Well, that's great news. That means most of your income can go toward investing. So you have zero saved right now, right? What do you have in the bank? Well, here's what I have. I have my emergency fund of $1,000. I have my three months.

I have three months for my emerge for my, you know, in case something happens. Um, but that's about all I have at this point. So I'm, I'm on the Dave Ramsey boat. I just, I'm scared. I, it's to a point to where sometimes I cry because I'm like, what am I going to do? You know, because I don't know, because when my husband passed away, you know, I used like life insurance and all that kind of stuff to pay my house off. So, you know, we had a roof over our head and all that kind of stuff because my kids were 7 and 10 when all of this happened. Wow.

Well, you've had a lot of life happen. It's been hard. I totally understand. We've had a lot. We're not here to beat you up. We want to give you some good next steps to take. And if you're following the baby steps now, that puts you at baby step four, because you have no debt, fully funded emergency fund, and really it's step seven because you have a paid for house. And so now the kids are, their school's paid for, we got to put our own mask now, put our own mask on. And that looks like investing for retirement as aggressively as possible. Do you have a retirement plan through your employer? Here's what I have. And I, I didn't know what route to go, but there's a 403B. Okay. I don't know much about that. I kind of look, you know. Do they have a match? No.

Okay. I would not do that then. I would first do. Okay. I mean, I may do some there, but we would first do a Roth IRA. Okay. Just a plain Roth, not a traditional Roth. A Roth.

So what I want you to do is go to RamseySolutions.com and click on smart investor and get a smart investor pro in your area to sit down with you and they can help you run some calculations okay now let me give you an example you bring home three thousand dollars a month you do not have any bills except survival bills you have no debt no rent no nothing okay correct if you were to save invest one thousand dollars a month for 15 years at 65 you're going to have right around a half a million dollars right around five hundred thousand dollars really yeah okay what this means is not that you're rich and it's really not enough, but it's enough to make sure you're not cold and hungry. Right. Because it will produce then, let's just reverse engineer this, which is very interesting.

Okay. Let's pretend it produced 10% a year on the mutual funds after that. And that you retired and had no retirement income and i suspect you probably have a retirement with your government agency don't you that they furnish you a pension uh yeah actually uh my husband i get a pension off of him but that thing yeah but do you get a pension from your work when you retire no okay it's just so security i pay in yeah yeah yeah absolutely which is nothing which is horrible but that's okay all right so if you had a half a million at 65 or 67 or whatever and it was invested at 10 10 of 500 000 is 50000 a year right without touching the nest egg without touching the goose it will lay 50,000 golden eggs a year wow and so you'd actually be making more

retirement than you are now so no kidding so you're going to be okay that's the point you're not going to be rich but even if i'm if my numbers are off a little bit, and they might be one way or another, actually, they probably are off in this case because you probably will not be making $36,000 for the rest of your life. You'll probably be making more, and so you could invest probably more later. Agreed? Right. Yeah. So I did that based on $ a thousand dollars in your current income so so i want you

to sit down with a smart investor pro and we don't know how the scenarios will compare to actual life but you can run some scenarios like i just did just to get the idea that i don't have to cry because if you'll start now jody and you'll start investing close to a thousand dollars or more than a thousand dollars a month you get your budget tight and you do that you're going to be okay matter of fact you're going to be better than okay that makes me that makes me cry just being happy yeah so i want you to sit down but it also needs to make you get on the budget and do it it also means you get on the phone and get on with those smart investor pros

and go sit down with them and learn and let's get this stuff started not next week not next year now now okay right now and because every day you put this off it gets harder if you put it off a year it's going to take 1200 yeah don't put it off anymore you put it off a year, it's going to take 1,200. Yeah. Don't put it off anymore. You put it off as long as you can. The fuse is burning. So I want you scared enough that I scare you into action, but I don't want you terrified anymore so you're paralyzed.

I got it. I'm on it. I'm doing it today. I love you. You're awesome. Call us back and let us know how it's going, okay? Okay. Thank you guys so much.

I appreciate it. Thank you. Sweet lady. Love that. know how it's going okay okay thank you guys so much i appreciate it thank you sweet lady love that she just needed a little motivation that she's not doing as as bad as she thought she was and the time to start is today what's interesting about what we do for a living we're talking about getting out of debt or we're talking about building wealth numbers actually give you a result that gives you hope when you run math okay you know i got a hundred thousand dollars in debt i'm never going to get out what's 33 000 a year for three years i mean it's 2600 bucks a month and you make 150 000 shut your winding up you know all of a sudden the numbers give you give you hope right the math gives you hope in her case it's a thousand dollars a month and

for the next 15 years and not missing a month and getting started immediately and getting good returns and good mutual funds which probably that 403b does not have that's why i directed her away from that you know let's go first to the roth ira with more control more options a lot better options a lot better mutual fund options out there now i can be off and if y'all want to argue with my numbers, that's fine, argue with my numbers. But here's the point. Get with it. You know, and, you know, I might be, if I'm half wrong, she's still going to have $25,000, $26,000 a month coming in, or $25,000, $26,000 a year coming in, versus nothing,

which your little plan you critique, critic people out there creates. Nothing. That's what critics create. Nothing. Well, the new one, Dave, is, well, a million dollars isn't enough anymore, Dave. That means a half million dollars is half of not enough. But it's more than you got if you be broke and crying about it. Hello.

Yeah, we'd love for you to have multiple millions. But, I mean, in this case, you could see 500,000 would still change your life. The only way she's going to get to over a million is she's going to raise her income substantially. So she could invest twice as much. Because $2,000 a month for 15 years at 12%. My mutual funds have averaged 12% for the last 30 years. My personal portfolio, and I'm not a genius. The market has averaged 11.8% in the S&P. So, by God, shut up and go do it.

So could you end up with a million dollars in 15 years? Yeah, it's two grand a month. That's it, roughly. I mean, there it is. Ding, ding. This is The Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host. By the way, guys, our award-winning documentary, Borrowed Future,

about the absurdity of the entire student loan epic failure, is available for free on YouTube. You can watch it other places and pay for it, but it's free on YouTube. So go there and check it. You can also probably check it out on Ramsey Solutions solutions i imagine we've got it on the website but uh either way borrowed future uh oddly enough um dr john deloney is one of the guests on the documentary back when he was in higher ed we interviewed him before he was a ramsey personality so that that's um you you didn't know that was your interview for the new position i did not know i

was i was it was a job interview you'll have a uncanny way of interviewing you without you knowing but i do think it's without applying i do think it's important to note um i mean when we look at what's happening today y'all called this back in 2019 when you made the documentary y'all called it this is we see the train coming and it's going to hit us and it's on its way yep for sure kenzie is with us in tacoma washington hi kenzie how are you hi how are you better than i deserve how can we help so okay so i've been my husband and i have been on your plan off and on but, um, we've paid off all our debt at one point.

And then I was stupid, got back into it. Um, but we're like scorched earth, you know, really, really on this plan to get out of debt. And one of the driving forces is we want to cashflow our kids college. Well, and this is like the perfect day listening to all of these kids having or adults having to pay for college again, all their stuff. Anyways, I have told my kids, I have a 21, 19 and a 17 year old girls. And I've told them since they were in middle school, we will pay for for college but you have to live at home

and you have to go to a school that we approve of you have to have good grades but we will cash flow your school we're not doing that we have been very transparent about the struggle we've had with debt that um the night you know the sleep that we lost everything like that i we i did the same thing i did the same thing except the live at home part. Why do you add that? You have to live at home. Because I don't pay for other people's rent. So where I live, there are so many colleges within 20 minutes of our home

that there is no reason for you to not live at home. Okay. So it's your money and those are your rules. What's your question? So my daughter refuses to stay home and go to school. She wants to go to a state school, but she wants to go to WSU, which is over in Pullman, which is six hours away. Cool. WSU, which is over in Pullman, which is six hours away. And they require you to live on campus. And you have to have the food program, which is about $2,500 to $4,000 a year. So she's opting out. Hold on. This is very simple. She's opting out of your rules. She opted out. Yes. And it's just, it's very difficult for me.

Absolutely. And I've dealt with, my entire career has been spent sitting with parents. And you drew a hard, hard line, a very hard line. Very clear line. Very clear line. This is the way this is going to be. And she said, cool, I'm going that way. And so the other side of a very clear, very firm, hard line is other people can people can say well then i don't want anything to do with that boundary and but that doesn't obligate you to pay no it doesn't

mean she gets none of your money right no i like i said i would help with some groceries no no no she gets none of your money that's the rule you set up none None of your money. Yes. No, she opted out. But it's like it kills me when you see your kid running into. It's really heartbreaking to watch people you love do stupid butt things, but you don't get to vote anymore once they're adults. And the same is if your parents started spending their money, and they were in their 80s, and it's heartbreaking because they keep sending money overseas to somebody who cares about what i mean or your best friend buys a hundred thousand dollars worth of crypto because he's an idiot i mean you can't stop him from doing the hardest

things is is when you love somebody they're doing hard things that are you know are not going to be good for him and so also if she signs up for all these like all of these loans and things because she has nothing saved she is not she has to pay him back she's making a choice i have to do i know you're not liable you're not liable don't sign anything i refuse to participate in your insanity i love you too much to buy your cocaine you're an addict okay she opted out she opted out see she thinks this reason we're being so strong on this i know what she thinks she thinks you're gonna give her money anyway and i can't i have two other girls that doesn't she does she think that she she does think that but i'm but I have to hold true because my oldest moved out, so we stopped school. Our middle one is staying home.

We're paying for school. So we have to stay true to what we've said. It's unfair to the other two for you to not have integrity. Correct. Zero help. Now, listen, the one thing I have learned, and I think it's the hardest stage of parenting, is being a parent to people who are grown up. Because they're allowed to vote now.

I can't tell them what to do anymore. I can't use my dad voice. It no longer works. I can only use it on the radio on a listener, but I can't use it on my kids. But that doesn't even work there, actually. But, you know, I can't use my dad voice anymore not even the dog listens to my dad voice anymore it's just gone i lost my dad voice it doesn't you know i have to use persuasion with everyone now and so my grown kids get the exact

same approach when i disagree with them that one of my good friends would get. I either just stand back and watch and hold my nose or I sit down beside them and I go, you know, I love you. And I've got some ideas here of some dumb things I've done in the past. And it kind of looks like some of the stuff you're thinking about doing. Would you like some advice from an older, wiser friend? If you say no, then I have to shut up. But if you say yes, I'll give it to you. And you have to go at it, you know, like I've got a friend, you know,

I've got friends my age who have grown kids that are in their 30s and 40s. One of them called us the other day and said, hey, we have teenagers. You raised three great kids. Can we take you to dinner? We want to ask you how to do that. So I have to use, but what I told them was persuasion. I didn't get to tell them what to do. They ask, and I get to tell them what I thought.

But that's how you get, that's how John persuades me, or I persuade John. Same thing. That's all you can do. But you might want to try that, because I got a feeling in your frustration you've used your mom voice. Oh, absolutely. And your kids called your bluff, right? Yes. that because I got a feeling in your frustration you've used your mom voice oh absolutely and your kids your kids called your kids called your bluff right yes yeah and I've been working really hard on not talking at them but talking with them did you say this is three girls I have three girls

yes where's dad in this conversation so he is he's he backs me up we're in a different like we're almost out of our debt and so he's like he's kind of weighing like okay maybe we we do this and i said no we have to hold we have to hold that's that's what i mean yeah that's exactly what i mean so i want him to come around front of this instead of you yeah and i want him to take his daughter to coffee and say baby doll i love you and i as somebody who loves you not as your dad i think you're making a mistake here and i want you to rethink it and i also want to i want to challenge you on something too not on this particular one but i'm challenging the the bedrock that you've anchored into one of the greatest gifts a parent can give their kids sometimes is to say the words i went about this the wrong way not not the thing is wrong but i

went about it the wrong way i don't think this is wise it like i want to take you to coffee and say hey let me walk you through why i'm making this this choice because i'll tell you this you and everybody's can disagree with me that's fine but after working in colleges for 20 years four different ones across a couple of states and consulting in a gajillion more if my kids decide to go to college one of my rules is you have to live on campus because I want them to experience a bunch of different people and learn about how other people do life that's different that's a different philosophy but here's the deal your kid is going to say I'm going to go for this one then. So you set a set of rules. Great.

Either live and die by it. I want dad to spend some time talking about why. Well, yeah. Why? I actually want mom and dad to sit down and say, do we actually both believe this? Okay. And then why? Because it sounds like mom made a line and dad's just going along with it.

But why? But why is right. Stick with it. That's right. You got to talk to a teenager you gotta talk to a grown child as a grown sibling a grain grown child is what it is oxymoron as an equal and talk about why here's why i believe this is why i'm trying to talk you into it this is the ramsey show Our scripture of the day, 2 Chronicles 15, 7, But as for you, be strong and do not give up, for your work will be rewarded.

Mary Kay Ash says, It's far better to be exhausted from success than to be rested from failure. I got a chill. That one's good. All right, Carrie is with us in Tampa Florida hi Carrie how are you hi Dave oh my goodness it's an honor to be on your show honored to have you how can we help so I I'm really just looking for debt advice we are struggling to pay back an SBA loan, payments for my husband's franchise that is now closed. Ouch. Yeah. So you borrowed how much on an SBA loan to buy a franchise? It was a total of $223,000. Okay. What kind of franchise? It was a moving company. He kind of bought it at a premium because it was already in existence and we really were under the impression it would be successful.

And unfortunately, I don't know if it was just due to the market at the time, but it was really obvious after about a year that it was not going to be profitable anytime soon. And so he made the decision to close it, and it was a big risk to begin with. But we decided to go ahead and just close it and move on. He does have a great job now that he loves. What does he make? About $70,000 now. What do you make?

I make $48,000. Do you guys have any other debt? Well, we have a very small car loan remaining and our house payment. We have about $200,000 left on our house. Are there any assets at all left over from the business? From the business, no. You sold them or what? Yes, everything was sold and wiped out.

The actual franchise itself, is the brand still open? Yes. Can you not sell that franchise to someone? No, it wasn't going to be an option. They couldn't help us with that. Why? That's a good question. We asked the question at the time and it was going to be a very, very long process to even try to find a buyer. And I don't know. Honestly, it just... I assume the franchisor has approval over any buyer, but even if you could sell the thing for $10,000 to somebody that just wanted that franchise,

because they're probably selling that franchise to a brand-new franchisee for a good deal more than that, correct? It's possible. that franchise because they're probably selling that franchise to a brand new franchisee for a good deal more than that correct it's possible they they kind of just dissolved it um in our territory and it was picked up by somebody else who's further away um and they're so you've lost your rights to it by now then probably yeah yes it was closed we closed it in in february now closing it is different than the actual franchise a franchise is an element that is actually a a right that you have that you paid for um right sorry so it was it has expired it's default all right man well so Man. Well, so you got $233,000 on $110,000.

Yeah. $23,000 a year is 10 years. $50,000 a year is five years. What are you going to do to get your income up so it goes faster? I'm not sure. We're hoping that his job, so far it's going well. What did he do before this? He's in operations and logistics management. He's worked for Amazon for a few years,

and he worked for another company for a few years. What did he make before he quit and started the franchise? He was making about $109, 109 that sounds more like logistics than 70 yes yes um and he lost that job in january 2021 um they had a lot of they had a uh restructuring in the in the business yeah but the logistics world if he know if he if he knows supply chain and he knows how to lay that out that's a six-figure income yes you would you would think that no i wouldn't think i know but right right and you live in tampa freaking florida there's logistics there for sure we're okay let me take care here's what's going on okay

you guys got the crap beat out of you, and your husband's lost his confidence, and you have too. And he doesn't feel like he's worth what he's actually worth because of this failure. I need you guys, for your sake, to go get him a job making 110. He needs to get back in the marketplace with his shoulders thrown back and a little swagger in his step again. He's not a bad guy.

You guys just made a mistake and bought a business that you didn't know how to run and ran it in the ground, and you've lost your butts. But that doesn't mean you're horrible people or you're dumb people or that suddenly he's not worth 110 when he probably actually is. At least. One of the things I had to recover from when i went broke and mine was a lot more dramatic uh although there's you know what is major surgery surgery that happens to you what's minor surgery surgery happens to somebody else right so um yours is very

dramatic for you i'm sure and traumatic but one of the things i had to recover from was i felt like an idiot i felt like i know why should anybody trust anything I ever think again? Because I was so stinking arrogant before it knocked me completely out of the saddle. And I don't think your husband was that guy, but it's normal when you go through this. It's the death of a dream. And part of your soul dies when you close that door and door and turn the key for the last time and walk away. That definitely sounds fair, yeah. Yeah, and I want to give you permission to grieve that,

but I also want you to keep perspective on it and him to keep perspective on it because I think he took just something to get a job, and he's just kind of curled up in the corner uh wounded right now we definitely definitely went through that um we are hopeful for this job I mean he he applied for jobs for almost a year before he decided to open a franchise we're not we're on the outskirts of Tampa we're not really in Tampa so we weren't finding anything at all. And so when this opportunity currently that he's working for came along, he's really, really enjoying the job, and we're hoping that he'll be able to work his way up.

Well, I'm glad, but you have $223,000 worth of debt, and he needs to make a lot more. Yeah, well, my— Okay, that's how it's going to be done, kiddo. I'm not going to argue with you anymore. Yeah. The thing is, I understand where you are. I've been where you are. And I'm sorry that you've been through all this pain.

But, yeah, we, you know, you've got to. The big math says you need to put $50,000 a year on it. And you can do that with your current income if you live on beans and rice. And it's going to take you five years. Or you can increase your income by $40, dollars and do this in three or four years and not have to live on beans and rice while you're doing it and i i really think that there's a tie-in here you look when you get hit this hard you look for a safe place to hide and human nature does that you want to go back to something where i'm yeah you know no risk no like i don't stick my

head up i'll get it knocked off again you know i don't want to do that so thank you for your call that's the answer you take the 223 and you divide it into the number of years you want to fool with this and what have you got to do what has to be true to make that happen and part of that is healing from this the rest of the way and um you're making excuses you are and part of that is healing from this the rest of the way and um you're making excuses you are and part of that tells me you haven't healed from this the rest of the way so you shouldn't have asked if you didn't want me to tell you that's true and guys let me just tell you those of you in business out there well business debt doesn't count business debt is good debt tell that to carry right you go take out a two hundred thousand dollar loan to buy a business you're in stupid land and you do that with an SBA loan

you're in super stupid land because SBA is forever they do not go away they're like a student loan and I'm not saying Carrie's stupid. I'm just saying any of you that are thinking about doing this, you need to listen to her call because, oh, well, we're not getting it yet. Well, right. Debt only works when debt works, and that's never. You get your butt bit off here, man, people. You got to stop it. You got to stop it.

Ouch. Bless their hearts. What a horrible thing to go through. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, what's up, guys?

It's Jade. Look, if you like what you heard in this episode and want to know more about getting started on the Ramsey baby steps, go to ramsesolutions.com and click the get started button. We'll help you figure out the best next step for you based on your specific situation. That's ramsesolutions.com and click get started.