The Ramsey Show - App - The Best Debt Resolution Program Is YOU! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, this is The Ramsey Show. It's where we help you win in life, specifically with your money, your work, and your relationships. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is with me this hour. 888-825-5225 is the toll-free number to jump in. 888-825-5225.

We've had a great time so far. We're thrilled that you're with us. If you're brand new to the program, whether you're watching on YouTube, listening on podcast, radio, SiriusXM, you are in a safe place. We want to help you win. Culture's told you you can't, and we believe otherwise. So here we go. Let's go to Brooklyn in Spokane, Washington, the home of my esteemed co-host.

That's right. Is that right? That's where I was born. How long were you in Spokane? Till two years old. Two years. Okay, very good. Cheney, actually, Cheney.

Oh, Cheney. Okay, very good. Cheney, actually, Cheney. Oh, Cheney. Okay, very good. Brooklyn, how can we help? Hi, I'm really happy I'm talking to you guys specifically because I think Jade is very inspirational with her story with her husband, and Ken, you always just seem like so nice and friendly. Well, there you go. I'll take nice. You got inspiring. That's very good. That's great. Thank you, Brooklyn. How can we help? So I have two little girls. I have a seven-year-old and a one-and-a-half-year-old. And I'm trying to do, I'm on baby step two.

I did have to dip into my emergency fund for a tire on my car, but I'm getting that back up with this paycheck I just got on the 20th, which was yesterday. So we're good. Everything's okay. I don't feel like I'm doing gazelle intensity. I feel like I'm more of like a water buffalo at this point. I'm just doing my best, but I guess to sum up my debt, I have 5,000 in medical, uh, 5,000 in student loans, which I did pay on. Um, I am back on that. And then, uh, nine, 9,000. And I've been, yeah, I've been listening to you about the student loans. And so I made sure to check and see where I was at. Um, and then nine, 9,000 in credit cards. I have no car payment. My dad is a big Dave Ramsey guy, and so he ended up getting me a car last year. That's great. What a good dad. Shout out for a

great dad. That's awesome, Brooklyn. That's amazing. Yeah, because he saw that, like, I sold my car when I was about to go on maternity leave because I didn't want the car payment and I was going to buy something cheap and, you know, just, um, do my best, but he bought me a new car. And so way to go dad. Um, yeah, it's a great car. All I had to do was replace the tire and, and the windshield. Um, but my insurance covered the windshield. so that was good and everything. But I'm working a lot, well, like as much as I can, but I don't feel like it's enough. What are you doing?

I'm a barista. What do you make? A couple days a week. I make, I only make $25,000 a year, and my debt is at about $20,000 a year. Sure. And so I guess I'm just a little intimidated by that number. Well, first of all, let's just pause. Especially now that I'm figuring it out.

There you go. So how old is your child? I have a 7-year-old, so she just started second grade. And then I have a 1-and-a-half-year-old. Okay. And I only have child care for her two days a week unless her dad's off on the weekends then right and so that's watch her and is that why your hours are limited i'm trying to dig in here so we know we're working with that's my

reason they're limited is because of my one and a halfa-half-year-old. And where are you living? I actually live in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho, and I drive 30 minutes to Spokane to work. I've been working in Spokane for about six years because the wages are doubled than what they are in Idaho. Right, good. Okay. So we have an income problem, not just the debt problem, and you're doing this on your own and that's hard. And can

I just say, before we get to the money stuff, I want Jade to walk you through that, but I just want you to hear me say that you're enough. You're doing good enough as a mom. You're doing good enough. Because I just don't feel that way. I could tell. And I want you to stop beating up on yourself. You're doing way better than you think you are. You're feeding these kids. You're clothing these kids. You're taking care of these kids. Y'all are eating.

The lights are on. Yes. Oh, they're always eating. Yeah. That's right. Isn't that the truth? So, hey, let's start there. Yeah.

Okay. So, one thing I want to say very quickly, and I want Jay to walk you through it, because we've got to get more income in order to get out of this debt. So what we've got to figure out— I also do Instacart while my 7-year-old is in school with my 1 1⁄2-year-old. What's that paying you? It's not great. Yeah, so? do about two oh it's not great yeah so i don't know why but i always kind of seem to get um some

some stuff that ends up taking a lot longer and then by the time i get two orders done it's time for my one and a half year old to take a nap yeah and so then we gotta we gotta go home or let's try to find something that's let's try to find something that's maybe online that you can do some work from home maybe okay let's look into that because that's maybe online that you can do some work from home. Yeah. Maybe. Okay. Let's look into that because that's going to allow you to utilize your evenings, possibly once the kids go to bed. That's going to allow you to utilize the time when your one and a half year old is napping. I would look into some things like that.

I know there's work from home, customer service, call center type jobs that you can get into that have decent hourly rates that's right so i would check into that um because for right now just five hundred dollars is going to change your world five hundred dollars a month is going to change your world and i would also well and i also i also do clean an office on sunday so all, I have three things I'm doing. Yes, but it's only spent now $25,000 a year, and that's poverty-level stuff. It is. It's so bad. I know, but listen, it's because I don't think that you've seen other opportunities and see what you can do. So a couple things. At the end of the call, Christian, I want to make sure we get her. We have an article at Ramsey Solutions that I wrote that's up there,

and it's about all these work-from-home jobs. You've got to know what's out there, number one. But number two, you've also got to look at changing this daycare situation. Daycare is crushing you financially. And let me tell you what my wife and I did. I just want to give you an idea, and then I want Jade to jump in. You've got to try to find an old, I say old, you'll find a grandmother who's retired, doesn't need to work, but wants to be active and loves kiddos, maybe through your church, some relationships. And let's see if we can cut our expenses on the daycare.

Because if you've got a grandmother who'd love to take care of kiddos and could do some meal prep, some light cleaning, and it could be way less money than you're paying in daycare. I just want to mention that really quick. You know, and I know this is going to sound a little bit like, oh, but this is a job I have. You can make more doing something other than being a barista. You can make more cleaning houses. That's exactly right. And you can do it on your schedule. You know, you mentioned that you've got the, you know, it's the limited daycare.

I just want to encourage you to use your talents, what you're good at doing, to earn more money at an hourly rate. And there's so much out there. I mean, literally, you can chart, you know, get you three, two homes a day and charge $200 each. Super quick. I want to put out a call to our audience. If you're in the Spokane area and you know somebody who needs someone like Brooklyn who can come in and do the job, would you contact our show? Contact Ramsey Care.

Let's see if we can help Brooklyn. Christian, make sure we get her information. This audience can do something special. Let's help this single mom find a great Christian, make sure we get her information. This audience can do something special. Let's help this single mom find a great job opportunity when she can make some money. We can do this. We can do this. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show.

I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is with me this hour. We're thrilled that you are here. 888-825-5225 is the here. 888-825-5225 is the number. 888-825-5225. Let's go to Brian, who is calling right here from our backyard, Nashville, Tennessee. Brian, how can we help? Hey, Ken and Jade.

How are you? Great. How are you today? Doing fairly well. So, good situation. I lost my job a few weeks ago. Fortunately, I'm on a severance, so it's going to last a few months. Okay.

But I don't really have any debt except for my home, and I have a second home as well. So about $320,000 left on my personal home. My second home, which my in-laws live in, have about $170,000 left on that. Are they paying you a rent on that? They currently are not, no. Okay. So they're just in there for free? I bought it about 13 months ago. Okay.

Yeah, they're living there rent free, right? At this moment, that wasn't the original plan, but unfortunately there's some, some decisions that they made. That's where we're at at this point. So I, with my prior salary, I would, I was able to cover both mortgages. No problem. Okay. But with the current situation of losing my job, um, I'll have about till Christmas until, and I've informed them of that, I have about until Christmas and something's going to have to change. What kind of work were you doing? I was in retail. I was an executive in retail.

And what were you earning? My base salary was $200,000. That's a big loss. Okay. And what about your wife? She's a school teacher. She makes $50,000. Okay, $50,000. So, okay. So, you're feeling it right now. I have a couple of questions with the home number two with the in-law staying there. Can you explain to me why they're, what happened to where they were supposed to pay rent and now they're, they're not. Yeah, it's interesting. Um, and the market was really hot last year and they're, they were in a situation where their health, they needed the money to make the down payment and they were going to sell their home while the market was hot. And they, I'm trying to be quick here.

They, they overpriced their home and they never sold it. And it's still on the market. So, and, and well, it's, it's going back on the market but it last few months it's not been on the market they've been trying to sell it themselves so um do they have any money or do they have any money like do are they do they have income no they have they they're both retired they're one has a part-time job, basically. They're living paycheck to paycheck. Do they have debt? Oh, yes. They have over $100,000 in credit card debt, which is the reason why I had to purchase the house.

Well, you didn't have to, but I know the situation. I've been married a long time. So are you and your wife having an honest come-to-Jesus meeting with the in-laws about they need to get a real realtor? We've got some wonderful, wonderful people connected, real estate professionals. If you go to our Ramsey Trusted section of RamseySolutions.com in their area, get a good realtor. Price that thing to sell. They don't get to be choosy right now. They need to move this house and move it now. Well, what are you paying a month for house number two?

$1,270. Well, hold on. I just want to know, has there been a come-to-Jesus meeting, or is there going to be one? Oh, yeah. Do they understand that? Are they going to do something about it? They do.

I think they're trying to come to terms with it. I'm giving them a little breathing room but we'll be back together soon. I just want to make sure because to me that's a big part of this deal. They got to take care of them right now because you got to take care of you. Yeah. How much is the severance?

Well it'll last till Christmasmas it'll last till christmas basically yeah okay so ken's going to help you with the career part of this um the good thing is you don't have any other debt the bad news is this second house you got to get out you got to get out of this situation with the in-laws and you've got to set clear time limits on this. And this is one of those things, it's a bad deal gone bad. You know what I'm saying? And now you're kind of in that bed, you're having to lay in it and it's going to require a lot of awkward conversations. It's going to require weird time limits where it's like, hey, especially even before you had your job, I would lost your job. I would have said this. But now that you've lost that job temporarily, it's like, all right, we've got to get out

of this situation because this is going to bleed you if you don't. Ken? Yeah, I'm going to the work thing. I don't think you need a lot of advice from me. I'll jump into that in a second. I'm going to tell you what I would do if I were you. The in-laws, they're going to be out and out soon. If they need to live with you for a while for happy wife, happy life until they sell the house, that's fine. They need to be out of the

second home. The reason is, is you have no debt except for the second home, if I remember correctly. Is that right? No, no. I still have $320 left on my personal home. Okay. And that's okay. That's okay. But my point is, you need renters, Jade. He needs renters in the second home until he decides, because now he's going to take a bath if he tries to sell it. So I want renters in the second home. That's the first thing. That was going to be my question is because they made a comment as to they'll just go back to their previous house. Yeah, they need to.

Well, that's your choice. Fine. That's not your call um no it is your call no no no no hold on i can rent this home for 1700 so yes rent the home four or five hundred dollars cash yeah if they go back to their house fine my point is it's not up for you it's like they're adults they need to get out of your house but that's what i'm saying it's his call is you have the ability it's not that's what i said it's awkward you have the ability to say guys this is the situation i can't keep having you rent for free you've got a place that you own let's set it up to where you're not

having to do the stairs or blah let's set it up to where you can move back in because i've got to get money coming in i lost my income and i've got to take care of my family. And that's a hard conversation. But I mean, I would not draw, if it's me, Jade, I would not draw this thing out until December. Because that's a long time. You need a job and you need to be hustling with everything you got. Don't rely on the severance. I would act like the severance doesn't exist. You've got a lot of experience and skillset in your role. You don't have to stay in retail. One of the pieces of advice I give folks like you who've been in retail for a long time and at a high level, you feel as though you're not worthy, you're not valuable outside of retail. That's not true. The fact of the matter is you're an executive with executive experience and skillset. So you get after it. Sorry for the

confusion. When I say it's not your call, it's just the word I'm using. My point is where they go, you have one concern and one concern only. You got put into a situation or you allowed yourself to be put in a situation where you bought a second home for your in-laws. No, you need renters until you can get out of that home. Because as soon as you wouldn't take the capital gains tax, if you can keep this thing afloat for two years, then sell the house, I would do it. But that is the same level of intensity as getting renters as the same level intensity of getting a job. And mom and dad on the in-law side, they're grown men and women. Yeah, they got to go out. Your wife's got to support you there. And if they go back to their house

or they go somewhere else, I don't care where they go. They just got to get out. And I think Jade's right. I wouldn't wait till December because that's putting a lot of pressure on you financially. Yeah, this severance is supposed to be to help float your family. Yeah, not keep them

afloat. you see what i'm saying yeah it's tough here's the deal i'm gonna give you a couple resources i'm gonna give you the get clear assessment it'd be good for you to take because let me tell you what i know brian that when someone is laid off or fired is the same traumatic experience as losing a loved one and you've been successful at a high level for a long time and you're rocked a little bit and that's normal. I want you to take the assessment, use it as a self-awareness tool. I'm going to give you the book From Paycheck to Purpose. I'm going to give you the book, The Proximity Principle. Everything about connecting,

everything about forging a new path based on awareness. Those three resources, my gift to you. Please, please, please sit down with your wife, come up with a plan for the in-laws, and you have got to move forward. Don't rely on the severance at all. Act like the severance is not there. That's the only way to recover from something like this. Still a good job market, certainly in Nashville. Go get hired, Brian, and kick the in-laws out. This is The Ramsey Show. and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours

take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape. And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org slash budget. That's chministries.org slash budget. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw joins me.

The phone number for you to jump in as we talk about your life, specifically your money, your work, and your relationships, the number is 888-825-5225. Hey, we are growing. We're growing on all platforms, and that is because of you fine folks. And so if this show is helping you in any way, would you help us grow by simply sharing the show, subscribing on the platform that you are engaged with, and giving us a positive review?

That would all help us, you know, they say on the old algorithms. So there you go. We would appreciate that very much. Real quick, before we get back to the phones, Jade, our fearless leader, James Childs, came in during the break. And a couple days ago, you and I were on the program together, and we shared some awesome testimonials from our audience as to what side hustles they are using to get ahead in the baby steps, whether it's that very first $1,000 in baby step one, or maybe it's the debt snowball, the smallest debt to the largest debts, or maybe it's filling up that three to six month emergency fund. Maybe it's college, whatever it is. And we said, you know what? Share some more. If you're listening to us, watching us, share some more of your stories. So we've got a few here. So this is kind of fun. This is cool.

Michael Finnegan says, my side hustle is reffing soccer. I've made about $7,500 so far from reffing. I could make over $10K if I did it more, but I'm trying to balance spending time with my wife and three kids. I get that. That, by the way, is on top of his main job where he's working about 50 hours a week. Wow. But he has an hour drive each way. Oof.

So Michael's getting after it. Man, he's getting in shape, too, financially and physically doing soccer i love that okay i love this one at mw mirror she says jade warshaw ken coleman i am totally debt free still working and i have a side hustle it pays ten dollars an hour and i work one day a week the side hustle allows me to play golf for free i love that which saves me 250 to 300 bucks a month basically i get paid to play golf. Yeah. Living and giving because I follow the baby steps. Now, that right there, Ken, that's a, I like that.

She's just like, hey, it's a trade. Yeah. I do this and I get to play golf for free. Well, we have a theme going here. Dana Rudman says, I bartend, serve at two golf courses as my side hustle. I make 1,500 to two grand a month extra and I get free golf. I love it. We got a theme here, free golf. I got to extra. And I get free golf. I love it. We got a theme here, free golf. I got to figure out how to get free golf down at the old legends.

All you got to do is bartend, apparently. That's great. At Marolo1020, hey guys, I made $250 for a three-day board of a dog in my home. We talked about that. That's great. I said I was willing to board dogs. Yeah. Look, I know people every day who are looking for someone to watch their dog.

She did it over Labor Day weekend. It was super easy and lots of fun. She said it's the best side hustle option for me, in my opinion. And let's shout out for all the stay-at-home mommas out there. This lady says that she does DoorDash while my kids are in school and make about $60 a day with a completely free schedule and no boss. Come on. Four hours, mostly driving, sitting around and waiting. So there you go. Wow.

How about that? Look, and here's what I want to call out with this side hustle thing. Most of us have an hour here, an hour there. If you have time to watch Netflix, you have time to get a side hustle. Let me just say it like that. Why'd you have to go and do that? I'm just saying. Making us all feel guilty for sitting there and watching some Netflix. I'm just saying.

Do something during that time. I have a buddy that I follow online and she does the surveys. Oh, yeah. You can do the surveys. Yeah. And it's like there is always something you can do to make money. Even if it's a little bit, there's always something you can do with that extra 30 minutes here and 40 minutes there.

That's what I need to do. Because I got an opinion. To do the surveys? Yeah. I just need to sit at home and do surveys. What's dad doing? Oh, he's out there on the patio surveying stuff. Oh, man.

That's great. Real quick, just for a little fun. What? Your favorite guilty pleasure on Netflix right now? Oh, right now I'm watching Suits. Oh, that's a great show. For the second favorite guilty pleasure on Netflix right now. Oh, right now I'm watching Suits. Oh, that's a great show. For the second time. I've watched it once.

Oh. And now I'm watching it again. Double dipping. It's a good show. It's a good show. I don't know if it's worth a second. Right now? Suits.

You're watching it too? But for the first time. Oh, okay. I got one more season. That's good. It is a fantastic show. Really good writing. My husband's watching Quarterback.

He likes that one. I've already seen that. Those kind of short documentaries, I pound those. watch the american what is it american gladiators thank you american gladiators no i always i was always irritated by those guys with the long hair and the extra muscles and the spandex it was fascinating much for me it was fascinating okay good let's go Will, who joins us now in Los Angeles, California. Will, how can we help? Hey, guys. How are you?

Good. What's up? Yeah, so, well, the reason I'm calling, of course, I'm in quite some debt, about $33,000. It's mostly consumer debt. And I was looking into a debt resolution program, but you know, just kind of get that gut feeling that might not be the best option. So I just wanted to get like an opinion from of course, like professionals. I love gut feelings. Uh,

when you have a gut feeling, it usually, it usually, you need, usually need to listen to it. Um, so let's go down that road how much what's your income uh so right now um i make somewhere between 55 and 60 000 so let's say 60 kind of kind of varies but yeah and is it just you or is there wife kids anything like that i'm sorry uh is it just you or do you have a wife or kids? Oh, no, yeah, I'm married. Yeah, I have a wife and three daughters. Okay. And is that income just yours or does your wife work as well or is that it all included? So that one is just mine.

My wife does work as well. Okay. But, you know, she probably bought half that maybe. Okay. So she's bringing in about 30. So all in, you guys have about $90,000 a year. Yeah. Okay. Here's what I'm looking 30. So all in, you guys have about $90,000 a year. Yeah. Okay.

Here's what I'm looking at. And this is just baseline. I'm like $90,000 a year, $33,000 of debt. Now you live in Los Angeles. That's the only thing that I'm like, okay, cost of living is pretty high. When you do your budget every month, or do you do a budget? We just started this month. So we just started doing a budget. Yeah. That's, I guess part of the reason why I'm in this situation. So as you've done your budget,

when you like, after all the expenses are paid, all the minimum payments are paid on the debt, what's left? Not a whole lot, to be honest. Um, maybe, maybe a little less than a thousand. Okay. So you got, let's say 900 bucks. That money is the money that you're going extra and above to pay off this debt. So it's $33,000 of various debts. You're going to list them from smallest to largest. What's the smallest debt you have? So the smallest one is, three thousand dollars okay so yeah if you were to pick up some extra work your wife were to pick up some some extra work as it is you can pay that thing off in three months but i want to go faster than that yeah yeah so do you see where

i'm getting at here whatever debt resolution company they were going to charge something and we don't want to give any more money away. This is debt we can pay off ourselves, right? So that gut feeling, I think you were right. I think you looked at that and said, why am I going to pay somebody to settle something? I can call them up myself. Why am I going to pay somebody to lump it all together? I don't want to lump it all together. I want to feel these small wins, right? It'll feel great when you knock out that $3,000 debt. Yeah. So that's my advice. I'm listing these. I'm doing a debt snowball. You and your wife, I'm guessing she's part-time because she's staying home with kids? Yeah. She only works about maybe like four or five hours a day. She's a nanny. So it's really just kind of picking up the kid from his school,

staying with him for a little bit until his parents come home. That's pretty much it. So it's just a couple hours a day. Okay. I love that. I would love for her to nanny for a family of three and do that same thing and make triple the amount. Yeah, right. You know what I'm saying? So these are the things, this is the way I want you thinking because with your income, you guys can definitely get this done. The average, let's see, you're in, I don't want to say this because you're in Los Angeles, but the median income is around $67,000. So if I said to you, hey, live on $67,000 and put the rest towards debt, you should

be able to do that. Now, and where you're at, it might be tougher. So for you, then that might be like, hey, I've got to get do these side hustles that Ken and I have been talking about. But either way, I'm not doing the debt resolution program. Yeah, I agree completely. OK, got it. Yeah. Yeah.

I was I was discussing with my wife. I used to do security before. I'm in a different position right now. That's always been in the back of my mind is maybe just kind of moonlighting. Heck yeah. Go do it again. So. All right. Yeah, that's that. Yeah, that's always been in the back of my mind is maybe just kind of moonlighting go do it again so yeah that's what came to mind

yesterday when I spoke to the people from that program I haven't signed up or anything but I figured that would be a better route to go you can hear the excitement in his voice he's ready he knows that this is going to be the thing that moves the dial short term sacrifice for a long term game it's always going to be worth it. She is Jade Warshaw. I'm Ken

Coleman. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. So glad you are with us as we talk with you about your life. I'm Ken Coleman. Jade Warshaw is with me this hour. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Our scripture of the day comes from 1 Corinthians 9, verse 24. Do you not know that in a race, all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize. And our quote from Mrs. Spanks herself, Sarah Blakely. You know, I've had the pleasure. Mrs. Spanks. Yeah, I've interviewed her twice.

She's a really, really interesting lady. I love that. Is she the one that goes on Shark Tank? Yeah. Yeah, she's been on there. She's the founder of Spanks. Yes. Very cool.

Very cool. Yeah. Her quote is, don't be intimidated by what you don't know. That can be your greatest strength and ensure that you do things differently from everyone else. I like that. That is good. I like that. Mic drop there. All right.

To the Big Apple we go, New York City. Sarah is there. Sarah, how can we help? Hi. Thank you for taking my call. You bet. So my question is, should I move to a job that pays more but has worse benefits? I have my current job has really good health insurance, good medical or good medical insurance.

It has a pension, but it pays pretty low. Over the past year, the reason I moved to that job was because we ended up needing to do IVF, which the total for that came to about $130,000, which it covered in full. Wow. Yeah. And I am pregnant now. Yay! Congratulations! That's awesome, Sarah. My wife and I went through that, and it did not work for us, but God had a different plan, and it turned out great. I'm going to tell you something right now. You should never make a professional decision on medical benefits alone.

So it's not enough. So I've got to ask, now that I've said that, the opportunity you have before you, how much of a pay bump is it? So I actually switched from this job because I moved. It was two reasons. I moved and I knew I was going to need IVF. So the job that I had before that I still work per diem for and have the opportunity to go back to made $110,000 a year. The job that I switched to initially, I made $69,000, and I'm now up to $82,000. Okay, so $110,000 versus $82,000. Yeah.

Okay, and the benefits aren't as good. I mean, what are they? When you compare them, you know, apples to apples, how bad is it in the new opportunity where you were before? It's so confusing. I'm so confused, but I do understand what you're saying. Let's just call it the new job, okay? The new job. So the pay difference, it's a lower pay, but I get a 3% raise per year. I did not get a raise at the other place at all. I have the good health insurance. I have a pension. At the current job? Yeah. All right. What about the work itself? I mean, which one of you gives you a ladder to more growth? You're saying you don't have an option for an annual raise of at least 3%, which is very standard, by the way.

You don't have that at the new job? At the new job, that's where I do get a raise. The new job, I have all these really good benefits with the lower pay. No, no, no. See, that's where we get confused. You've got an opportunity to go back to where you were, but I'm calling that the new job. Where you are, you're making $82K, and you've got great benefits, and you get a 3% bump. I'm saying the job that will pay you more, 110. Are you saying there's no option for raises? Very little option for raises. So what they do is they started

me when I was there at 90,000 and they increase your pay based off, I'm a physician assistant, so it's based off how many patients I can see. Once you max that out, you kind of max out your salary. So occasionally they might throw something in. Maybe they would be nice and throw a cost of living raise in, but I never saw that. Okay, and so you're telling me, based on the amount of patients you could see, you would be maxed at 110? Yeah. And how different are the benefits? That's what I'm trying to get

at. Is it that big of a deal? Is it going to cost you more? So the benefit, I mean, the higher paying job that I came from had no IVF coverage. They covered 0%. Are you planning on doing IVF again? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Well, then that changes everything. We could have started and finished there. If you believe you're going to have to do IVF and you know your medical situation and your current company does full coverage of that, then I think that's a no-brainer. Then what about after I'm done having kids or if IVF doesn't work again? You can always transition out whenever you're ready. Yeah, it's not like this is the only job opportunity you'll ever have.

You're a physician's assistant. The sky's the limit for you. In fact, you should be, as a PA, you should have the opportunity for continual growth. So the fact that you would be sort of capped at this other place, To me, it's not the best option moving forward anyway. Yeah, I agree. So if IVF is something we think we have to lean on, I'd stay where you are. You're getting a 3% bump. You got good benefits. I think if I'm you, based on what you've told me, I want Jade to weigh in, but I would stay where I am now, just for now, temporary. Yeah, I'd stay put, knowing what your goals are. Cause your goals right now are the IVF. It's going to be covered. You know

that you have the potential to earn more money. And for me, that matters most. Like, no, I want to know that I have potential. Don't cut me off with a glass ceiling. You know what I'm saying? So that for me, for me, the choice is simple. And like Ken said, and like I said, this is not forever. You can reevaluate in five you can re-evaluate in five years you can re-evaluate in two years that's right you know um this is for right now and then after you have your next round of you know you have this baby then you have your next round of ivf have your next baby then you can talk about this again and decide what you want to do yeah i like the fact that that massively important procedure which has brought you a baby, is covered. That's a huge benefit. I think you

have to. I think it's a no-brainer. You got to choose your heart here, and your career growth is down the line. Just really quickly, with a pension versus a 401k, I can put money into a 403B, which I've been doing because I believe I can take that with me. Yeah. And if I'm there for five years, I will get what was promised, which will be small or minimal. But if you stay for 30 years, then it's a good pension. You're not making a 30-year decision here. No. You and I both know, Jade knows, if IVF works and baby two is on the way or if it doesn't work, either one of those scenarios,

you're not staying where you are for long term. Isn't that true? Well, I guess. Your heart's saying, Ken, that's true. Your head's going, slow down. This Ken guy is pushing you a little bit. I love a 403B option a little bit better anyway because you have more control of what it's invested in. That's right.

So if it really was boiled down to that, if somebody said, Jade, should I choose between a 401K or a pension, I'm going 401K all day. And don't stay at a job just because of a 30-year pension. Yeah. That's a recipe for accepting average and complacency as opposed to get out and get it. That's where Jade and I are coming from. We love being able to set our own pace, set our goals, and get after it. Let me tell you something.

She's a former D1 athlete. Get out of her way. You try to tell her what she can't do and hold her back from progress, watch out. Dunking on folks. You're going to need more knee pads. I promise you that right now. And I'm the same way. You are the same way, Ken. And so that's why we're giving you this advice, Sarah. Baby first, family first, and then dream next. But no limits on the dream. No limits.

That's right. The whole idea of saving for retirement, you're going to be able to do that regardless, right? 15% into your 401k or 403b. And even if you did have a pension, that wouldn't count for the whole 15% anyway. You'd still be investing into some other vehicle. So there you have it. Yeah. Good on you for really thinking this through.

Good questions. That's good. Very good. You're smart. So there you have it. Yeah. Good on you for really thinking this through. Good questions. That's good. Very good. You're smart. I'm so happy for you. You're going to be a great, when's the baby coming? November 22nd, but probably much, much earlier. Wow.

Well, we're so excited for you. What can we give her as a baby gift, Jade? Let's see. If you do have every dollar. I don't know. Let's get her set up with Financial Peace University and every dollar. That is our gift to you. Our baby gift.

Our baby shower gift. I love it. Way to go, Sarah. I love being involved in a baby shower that I don't have to actually show up to. That was the best of both worlds. That was great. I put all the pressure on you. All those games. What should we give her? And you were like, oh yeah, that was beautiful. I love it. All right. Fantastic stuff. Hey, love being with you, my friend, Jade Warshaw, Ken Coleman with you, America, James Childs. Thanks for keeping it all on the tracks. God bless that man. And you,

America, this is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Ken. If you love the show and want a deeper dive on your money journey, we have a weekly newsletter that gives you trending and helpful articles and tips on following the Ramsey way. Go to ramsesolutions.com today to sign up for our newsletter. Again, that's ramsesolutions.com to sign up for our weekly newsletter.