The Ramsey Show - App - The Best Way to Pay Off the House (Hour 3)

Episode Date: May 24, 2019

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. It is a free call.

Lisa starts off this hour in Santa Fe, New Mexico. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Lisa, how are you? Dave, I'm so excited to talk to you. Well, you too. I want to thank you. I want to thank you for everything that you do for all of us. Well, thank you.

God bless you. God bless you. Okay. I'm 60 years old. I'm self-employed. I'm debt-free except the house. And I would like, if all possibility, to pay down my house before I go into retirement. I've got about $710K in IRAs.

And recently this year, I incorporated, and so I'm feeling my way through that. I'm probably going to earn over $100,000 this year. Good for you. Yeah, I'm a nurse, and I work lots of crazy hours, but I'm really trying to chip away at this. But my question is, do I slow down on retirement contributions in order to try to pay down the house? Because the house I owe about $320,000 on, and it's a big nut, and it's scary to me. I would like to go into retirement with having that paid off. How is the $710,000 invested? What's it invested in? I have actually a management company doing it for me.

It's in a variety of stocks and mutual funds. Okay. And how have your returns been? They've been on par. They've not been stellar. They've been running between 8% and 12%. Okay. All right. If you don't put anything else in $700,000 at that kind of a rate,

your money should double about every seven years. Mm-hmm. Okay. So when you're 67, if you don't add anything to it, you should have like $1.5 million. Yeah. Okay. And you'd have your house paid for by then pretty easy if you concentrate exclusively on your house and so at 67 at 67 if you had a paid for house and a million five would

you be okay i would absolutely be okay i'm not an extravagant human being so much i know you've done a wonderful wonderful job you've done a wonderful, wonderful job. You've done a wonderful job. You're just incredible. I mean, you're already a million. What's the house worth? A little bit over $500,000. Okay, so you're already a millionaire.

You are? You are. Did you inherit a bunch of money? No. I mean, your net worth is right at a million dollars. Did you realize that? Yeah. Did you inherit a bunch of money? No. I mean, your net worth is right at a million dollars. Did you realize that? Yeah. That's pretty.

That's impressive. You know, yeah. And you're a nurse. But a million isn't. So have you been a nurse your whole life? I have done a variety of things my whole life. I did mental health for years, and I was widowed. I have a disabled son, and I have just worked and saved.

That's what I've done. Good for you. Yeah. Well, you're a hero. You've done a great job. I'm so proud of you. So, yeah, I think my point of telling you the money's going to double in seven years is to say that if you slowed down on retirement or even stopped retirement for a short period of time because you have such a large savings amount, you're still going to be okay.

Okay. And let's get that house paid off. I think your tendency here is correct. Now, the other thing is you can just keep plowing it in there and then reach over and pay off the house if you don't get it paid off later. Well, my concern with IRAs is that taking out a large portion, that the tax burden on that would be huge. Yeah, but you're going to pay taxes on the money anyway. You're either going to pay taxes on it.

If you use the money to pay off the house, you're gonna pay taxes on money anyway you're either gonna pay taxes on it if you use the money to pay off the house you've already paid taxes on it if you put it in a traditional ira you haven't paid taxes but you will when you take it out you're going to pay the taxes unless it's a roth period right and you will pay the taxes you put into the roth before you put it in there it's a before tax it's an after-tax account anyway and so you do pay the taxes somewhere on the money. It's whether you pay it before it goes in, pay it when it comes out, or pay it and then with what's left, pay off the house. It's all going to be after-tax money.

And at 70.5, you have a required distribution from this, from a traditional. And so you're going to be taking some of it out even if you don't want to um as you go along beginning at 70 and a half so yeah i i think it's fine to slow down near nearly stopping your retirement in your case for a like let's say for two years or something and let's three years and let's just beat on this house and see how much we can beat it down. And then when you get ready to retire, reach over and pay it off if you haven't yet. Okay. I like that.

Okay. Thank you so much. That lifts the weight. You understand my reasoning. It's that the $710,000 is going to almost double or double in seven years. Mm-hmm. without touching it. So that's pretty good. I mean, because you've got the ball rolling so well down the hill,

it's going to keep rolling is my point. You don't have to keep pushing it anymore because you've got it going really, really well. Now, if you're in a different situation, I'd tell you to keep saving because I'm like you i think you know how much should i save dave how rich do you want to be girl you know i mean that's no yeah i want to done it want to be able to relax and enjoy myself do some things and do some things for other people and you know live and give right and uh boy you've done a great job wow you have done such a great job hey listen i want to send you a book that the book i did on wealth it's the only book the book I did on wealth. It's the only book I've ever done on wealth. All my other books have been on money, and it's called The Legacy Journey.

And I'm going to send you a copy of that because I really, really like what you did. Hold on, I'll have Kelly pick up and send that to you. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Well, there it it is another everyday millionaire talked to a guy in the lobby a while ago in a different hour at the break he spent 25 000 to go to dentistry school when he went many many years ago i don't know how old he was he was probably in his 70s maybe even 80s um He and his wife were on a trip to Florida, heading back home, stopped by during a commercial break to say hi.

$5 million net worth. How much did you inherit? $30,000. It's called work, Dave. That was his answer. That was her answer, too, wasn't it? Did you hear what she said? I worked a lot of hours.

I was widowed, a disabled son, nurse. She wasn't a doctor. She's not a lawyer. She's not an Indian chief. She's not the CEO of a Fortune 500 company picking your pocket in some way, in your mind, in your delusion, making you some kind of victim. She's not the CEO of a Fortune 500 company picking your pocket in some way in your mind, in your delusion, making you some kind of a victim. She's a nurse. She's a millionaire.

How strong is that? Yeah. You want to be an everyday millionaire? You've got to listen to our Everyday Millionaire Hours with me and Chris Hogan. If you are an everyday millionaire, email Kelly and tell her. We'll put you on there. Dave on air at DaveRamsey.com. We want to hear from you.

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That's 888-562-6200 or churchillmortgage.com. Thank you for joining us. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Crystal is with us in Dallas, Texas. Hi, Crystal. Welcome to the show. How can I help? Hi. First off, I just wanted to say thank you for helping me and my husband pay off $253,000 in student loans.

Way to go. That school took us about five and a half years. And now we're on our way to paying off our mortgage in the next three to four years. We have about $150,000 left. But that will be done. Our goal is about three years. So huge thank you for that. Once I can fit in the leadership

kit among our budget of a tractor for our new homestead and our Lifesop Guardian Dogs, I want to be part of your team and teach your classes. But the reason I'm calling today is I've got three kids, one on the way. They're five and under.

And my question is, now that we have our small homestead, is that we were thinking of, say, once the kids are 10 or so, if we were to employ them and start their savings more as a Roth IRA versus a college savings account, which would be the wiser decision. College. College savings account is the wiser decision, assuming they're planning to go to college.

I mean, but no, I would not do a Roth instead of college. Now, if you've got college funded and you have extra room in your budget and you want to do some other things, you can do a Roth on a child. They have to have earned income, which means they have to file a tax return. Sure. And so, you know, our kids' college, for instance, when they were in their early teens,

we had it covered. We knew we had enough set aside for their college. So there wasn't any need to do anything there. So as they worked and did different things, I went ahead and filed tax returns on them for babysitting money or when they would work here at the office or do something. We pay them, and we file tax returns on that money, and they paid taxes. I paid the taxes on their money that they earned so that I could fund a Roth up to their earned income. But it's only up to what they earn and what you file a tax return on.

But that would only be once you hit a baby step seven situation. You would not do that until your home is paid off, until you've got their college taken care of. That's a side issue. I would not use a Roth to save for college. I would use the ESA or the 529, which functions like a Roth, but it grows tax-free, but it's used for college. I would use the ESA or the 529, which functions like a Roth, but it grows tax-free, but it's used for college. Thomas is in Nashville. Hey, Thomas, how are you? Hey, Dave, how's it going?

Better than I deserve, sir. How can I help? Well, I am 25. I graduated from UT, so go Vols. Yay. I moved to Atlanta after school, had a house there, had two people that rented from me, was a really good deal for me, and then work has moved me to Nashville. And so I've sold my house and currently have the funds just waiting to kind of get back into homeownership in Nashville. Good. My question is this.

You know, when I bought the house in Atlanta, I focused on paying it off. Good. When I buy the house in Nashville, the horizon for payoff is probably seven years, something around that. I've listened to your show for a long time and never got this answer. Is it better for me to throw the money at the house or throw it in a brokerage account, let it grow for seven years, and then once it grows high enough, pay it off? Why? What we tell folks to do is, of course, be debt-free other than the home. Have your emergency fund in place. Be putting 15% of your income into retirement

plans in stuff like Roth IRAs and good mutual funds, so you're in the market in that sense with your investing. And then everything else I would throw at the house and get the house paid off. Here's the reasoning, okay? A paid-off home mortgage is a cornerstone of people who become millionaires. We just finished a study of over 10,000 millionaires. 90 plus percent of them started from nothing and became millionaires. There were two primary data points that we found in that study.

One was they consistently invested in their retirement plan over several decades, one or two decades or three. OK, in other words, their 401k, 15 or two decades, or three. In other words, they're 401K, 15% of their income going away. The second thing was they had their home paid off in an average of 10 years, 10.2 years. And so that's the data points on the two primary things that we found among the millionaires that they do all the time. Now, there's a small percentage that didn't do that, but almost none of them thought,

oh, I'm going to borrow as much as I can on my house so I can invest in the stock market in a brokerage account. Those people generally end up broke. So just to clarify my question, I'm debt-free, investing 15%, all of that stuff. Your question is, do I pay off the house with a brokerage account, or do I just pay off the house? Well, do I take that extra $1,000 that I'm throwing at the mortgage rather than set it aside? Because effectively, from a balance sheet perspective, your balance sheet is your assets on one column, your liabilities on the other. When you throw money into a brokerage account, instead of paying it down on your house,

it has the same exact mathematical effect on your personal net worth as having borrowed money on your house to invest in a brokerage account, which is absurd. I understand. So you wouldn't do that. No, no. You pay, just pay, pound the house, pound the house, pound the house. Because again, you're 25. If I can get your house paid off by the time you're 35, dude, you're going to be worth 10 million. And I don't even know your income.

But your income is not on a straight line. It's not a linear projection. It's on an exponential curve, meaning your income does go up during this time, and so your wealth building changes as you go along as well. And this is what happens with these millionaires that we've studied. People who build wealth get clear of debt and invest consistently. It really isn't any sexier than that. They really didn't do anything that's like super complicated or super sophisticated. These are the ones that really build wealth. The people that try to play games with this crap are the ones that end up with nothing.

And so you start playing games with a brokerage account, you're going to end up in a mess. Pay on the house, Thomas. Good question. Thank you for joining us. Jack's in Pierre, South Dakota. Hi, Jack. How are you? Good.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Want to know if I need to make a deal with my wife to get on the Dave Ramsey plan. We have no debt. She wants a new house. I don't want to go back into debt to have a new house, but she does. So she agreed to get on a budget, on the Dave Ramsey budget, if we go back into debt.

Okay. What do you want me to do should i do it i wouldn't i think you got issues that hasn't got anything to do with budgets or mortgages they're called marriage i don't do deals with my wife where we trade off stupid for smart, so she quits being mad at me. Oh, she's not mad. It's a compromise. We're working together. I knew she didn't want to stay in the house we're in for quite some time now.

Okay, so what is your home currently worth? $300,000. Okay, and what does she want to move into, pray tell? Probably $500,000. Okay, and your household income want to move into, pray tell? Probably $500. Okay, and your household income is? $200. How long does it take to save $200,000 making $200,000 with no house payment? A couple years.

Yeah, that's your compromise. Yes, darling, you can have the house. We'll have the money together in two years, and you're going to be on a budget with me to help us get there. We're not going to spend a dime. I'm not going to do a whole bunch of stuff I'd like to do so that I can pay cash with you for this house you want moving up. A $500,000 house in Prairie, Pierre, South Dakota ought to be a freaking mansion. It'd be nice.

Yeah, it'd be a really nice house. Like what? 6,000, 8,000 square feet? No, not like that nice. It's got some dirt under it then no okay anyway what that's what sharon and i would do we would i would want to buy her the house that she wants but we're going to do it in a wise method it is not unreasonable to wait two years to pay cash for a house when you make $200,000 a year to move up in-house. So, you do what you want to do. But I wouldn't do that.

I don't think that's a compromise. I think it's a stupid decision. You got the huge income. You're debt-free. And she can't wait two years to pay cash for a move up in-house? Of course she can. And that's what we would do at our house. You do what you want to can. And that's what we would do at our house. You do what you want to do, but that's what we would do.

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Hi, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up? My wife and I, we're currently on baby step number two. But we purchased a home about a year ago for $80,000. And then we remodeled the home, spent about $51,000 in unsecured debt to do that. Have the home reappraised at $160,000. We have about $51,000 in unsecured debt at this point. And our original plan was to do all the work, get it appraised, refi the house,

and be out of debt. But now after going through this and listening to you, I'm not so sure that's the best way to go. So just looking for some advice. Okay. Well, you can follow through on that. I think we would change our word, though. You're not out of debt. You're just moving the debt. Right, right. Because you didn't pay it off. You moved it to your mortgage if you do that.

Now, it was a home improvement process, and if you just follow through on that, it wasn't like you went to Europe and then put that on your credit card and then put that on your home. This is all debt associated with having fixed this home up and it was the plan and if you reef and i put put all that on a permanent mortgage it's not the end of the world so 51 000 there how much other unsecured how much other personal debt do you have not counting your house I'm with two cars, about $20,000, $24,000 roughly. The two cars are $24,000 each? Together.

Together, okay. Yeah, no, together. Okay, so $75,000 gets you out of debt completely, not counting your house. And your household income is what? About $70,000. Okay. You can go either way. I mean, whichever one you want to do.

The cars don't go on there. They're not part of the rehab. And any part of the 51 that you cannot honestly look at and call part of the rehab, I wouldn't do. But if you go get a new first mortgage on a 15-year fixed and it encompasses the renovation that you did, that's kind of been your plan all along, okay? The thing I don't want people to do is I don't want them to use a refinance as a form of financial denial. Because people feel like, you know, I'm out of debt. No, you're not out of debt. You moved it, you know?

You moved it. And so it's not financial denial, number one. But number two, you don't change your habits. So if the $51 51 000 was there from bad organization bad spending habits not having a budget not saying no to you in the mirror then i would tell you never refinance that onto your house because you've got to break those habits to win going forward but it's not there due to that it was a plan to refi the house on a card and roll the card into the house i mean renovate the house on a card and then roll the card onto the house and so as long as that's what it is it's not it's not a big habit

pattern here that we've got to address then you can do that if you want to um the thing i'm always trying to do is just make everybody face the person in their mirror that's more important important than the math and so you know as a part of this for instance um it didn't bother you at all to go buy two cars on payments. It needs to bother you from now on the rest of your life, so much so that you never borrow money again on a car. That would be an example of a habit that you need to change out of your debt pattern. So never again can you buy a car, ever, the rest of your life, unless you pay cash. If you want to be wise with money, that's what you would do.

Because this is what people who build wealth do. People who drive cars that they can't afford trying to be something that they're not stay broke their whole lives. And they're defined by their car payment. Not by their balance sheet. Not by their wealth, in terms of their financial definition of themselves. Nathaniel's with us in Spokane, Washington.

Hi, Nathaniel. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Question. My wife and I are just starting on Baby Step 2. I make $60,000 a year working two jobs. My wife makes $20,000. We have a first grader and a preschooler, and right now we're sending both of them to a private school. But that's sucking up quite a bit of our budget as we're trying to get rolling on baby step two. We're not really big believers in the public school system at this time, so we're not sure exactly what to do.

Gotcha. And how much debt do you have? We have $75,000. Fifty of it is in student loans, and then $25,000 is in a car, credit cards, and medical bills. How much do you owe on the car? $3,000 is in a car, credit cards, and medical bills. How much do you owe on the car? $3,000. Not much.

Okay. And what is the private school cost? $500 for each child a month. $6,000 a year. That's correct. So $12,000 a year total. Right. Out of an $80,000 income with a $75,000 debt problem.

Yep. Gotcha. Okay. All right. Well, there's two or three reasons that people select a private school. One is safety because the public school in their area is not safe in their mind. Two is academics. I feel like the private school is not safe in their mind. Two is academics. I feel like the private school is much superior in academics.

And three would be typically religious reasons. That you want your kids in a Christian school. You're a Christian. You want your kids in a Catholic school. You're Catholic. Another former Christian. You want to whatever. You want to, you know, I had a call the other day.

A lady wanted her kid in a Jewish school, a Jewish family. So that's a religious reason because you want to be trained in the value systems associated with your religion. And public schools are not conducive to any of that, by and large. So which of those or what combination of those are concerning you all about the public schools in your area? Our main concern is the religious aspects. We are Christians. And then the second is the academics. We have very bright children, we believe, as most parents do,

and we want to give them the best education possible. Okay. All right. I know a lot of people, as you know, choose homeschooling in that scenario, which is a possibility. The $12,000 is not killing me, but it is making you test your resolve on how you believe this or how you solve this problem, you know, of getting your kid a good education and one that's conducive with the value systems that you have. There's a lot, you know, homeschool is one way to do it. Another way to do it is to move into a school system, even if it's public, that is just more conducive. I mean, for instance, we live in a county that when our kids were in school,

our public schools are technically not Christian, but the county is so freaking Christian that every time we went in for a parent-teacher conference, we tell the teacher we're praying for them, and she says, oh, I pray for these kids every day. So that's the setting that we're in. I mean, we're in the south in Nashville, and it's the buckle of the Bible Belt. There's more Baptists here than people. So that's where we are. So it's a different setting, though.

But the schools that my kids would have been in in in the Nashville system would not have been in a word like that. We're out, we're one county over. And so Nashville schools are a disaster. And so, you know, we moved out of that county into this county. And that's the way we solved it. But they went to public schools. And then we, of course, did their religious training at home. And they got to learn apologetics because they occasionally got to debate with some atheist or something in the process. So you just get to learn what you believe in the process. So I think 12,000 isn't killing me here. It is making you challenge, is there another way to skin this cat?

Meaning, is there another way to take care of these kids and look at it? We had to look at that, too. And we made the decision, public schools in our different counties, that look at it. We had to look at that, too, and we made the decision, public schools in our different counties, that we solved it. But just look at it, figure out how to get there. 1 Thessalonians 4, 11 and 12 And to aspire to live quietly and to mind your own affairs and to work with your hands as we instructed you so that you may walk properly before outsiders

and be dependent on no one. Ulysses S. Grant said, Labor disgraces no man. Unfortunately, you occasionally find men who disgrace labor. That's great. I love it. Very fun stuff. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Ah, it's great. I love it. Very fun stuff. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings. You get free samples, free shipping, and with new promos that they run every month, you'll save even more.

Use the promo code Ramsey, and you'll get the best possible deal. Today's question is from Callie in Arizona. What do I do if I want to tithe but my spouse doesn't want to? I want to be generous and bless others, but my husband doesn't agree. What should I do? Well, I think that you've got the case where you are, it sounds like you're a person of faith, a Christian who is married to someone who's not. That's what it sounds like.

And so you're going to have lots of different issues and value systems that don't align in that case. And so you're going to have to learn to navigate that as a part of your marriage. I would suggest some good marriage counseling. If he is a person of faith, then you've got a different discussion and that would be that, you know, what is his faith based on and what is he using as his guidance on that? Because, you know, someone who is a bible believer believes in generosity and the tithe is all through the bible and so it's not really a a big argument to say you know giving at least a tenth of your income is a a big deal the other issue here that is underlying in

this question and it does come up when you're again, a person of faith is married to someone who doesn't have faith or is not a matching faith or whatever. Obviously, he doesn't respect your vote in this situation. You don't have an equal say, an equal footing of any kind in this relationship. sharon and i are both people of faith and we use the bible as our guideline at our house it's how we do things in our marriage and in our lives uh but even then we argue we're hillbillies too so we argue good i mean we don't we don't have these little quiet disagreements

we argue and so sometimes it just embarrasses our kids but anyway well because we're gonna we're gonna clearly communicate i can just say it that way right so but here's the thing one thing we have figured out years ago been married 37 years we do not move forward on decisions period that we can't both somehow at some level indoors now there's some things that she wants to do that i don't care anything about but i've got enough respect for her that if it's important to her enough love for her but if it's important to her that we're probably going to do that thing if it's a if it's a on a scale of one to ten it's a nine or a ten to her and it's a two to me we're doing it not because i necessarily think it's a great thing but because i think she's a great thing greatest thingest thing ever happened to me, this side of Jesus.

That's what it comes down to. So, and the same is true the other way. If I think something's a 10 or 9 or a 10 and she thinks it's a 2, she's like, I don't understand it, but yeah, whatever. It matters to you. Let's do it, right? The best things

happen, of course, when we both are in agreement that something doesn't matter or does matter and when we both say hey that's a nine or that's an eight out of ten and that's when stuff really moves and things really get done these couples that get out of debt these couples that you hear they say well we finally aligned our discussions on money. We finally got on the same page. That's when everything happens. And so part of what's laying in your question, Callie, is that, sadly, is that your opinion doesn't count on anything. The tithe is just one of the examples.

And so if my wife wants to make a small donation or a donation of some kind to an organization, unless I just completely think it's a horrible idea, then we may fight about it. We're not going to do it until we get some kind of an agreement on it. Unless I just think it's a horrible organization and know we're not giving money to that, and she wants to, then we're just going to reach an impasse and we're not giving money to it. Not because I said it, but because we have to be in agreement or we don't move forward.

That's our rule. And this is how you work it through. But again, we have to have some level of respect for each other's side of things. Andrea is with us in Redding, Pennsylvania. Hi, Andrea. How are you? Hi, Dave.

Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So my husband and I are working on our debt snowball, and we have about $30,000 in credit card debt. And we're looking at doing minimum payments and trying to pay that down. But we had a friend of ours that went through the program

that thought maybe if we are just able to knock out the first one and not pay the minimums on the other ones, that that might be a good idea. He didn't go through our program. I've never told anybody to do that. Actually. I mean, you can't reference my program and say that. I mean, you can just decide if you want to do that, but I don't think that's wise. So you have $30,000 in credit card debt.

What other debt have you got? We both have car payments that are making right now. What do you owe on your cars? It's about $7,000 each. Okay. So another $14,000 there. What other debt have you got? I have student loans, and we have a mortgage payment as well.

And how much do you have in student loans? About $39,000. Another $40,000. All right, and so we're at $83,000 now. And what's your household income? About $60,000 a year. Yeah, there's the problem. Okay. Yeah, your ratio of income to debt is, you know, you got

a small shovel and a medium size to large hole that you're trying to dig out of. What can we do to get income up temporarily? Well, right now I'm finishing up my master's degree and I'm doing my internship. So once I'm finished with that and i'll be able to start working then that will really help with that great when is that and what's your master's in my master's is in counseling and i should be finished in december oh great okay so if you basically tread water or make tiny bits of progress knocking out maybe one small debt or something like that between now and December, that's not a bad thing.

Because your income is going to go way up. Yeah. I mean, what are you going to add to the pile? What are you going to be? What's your income going to be when you start? I don't know. Well, I mean, what do you think? It depends on where I look.

You didn't go into this thinking you were going to make $10,000 a year, but you didn't go into it thinking you were going to make $200. What do you think you're going to make? Right. I mean, I could maybe make a little bit more than what he's making right now. I thought so. So your household income is getting ready to double. Put all of that on this debt, and it's gone in 18 months. Yeah.

Starting in December. And from now to December, you just keep peck, peck, peck, peck, pecking at it, making progress just to stay in the game and stay on the wagging and see some psychological income. Hello, counselor. Okay. You stay plugged in with the positive feedback of making progress, seeing traction that's measurable.

But you're not going to make big traction. We're holding on because, you know, come January, February, you land that job. Boom, this thing goes into overdrive. You're going to kick it then, girl. You're going to be fine. So keep meeping the minimum thing. I wouldn't not pay my bills when I can pay my bills. Yeah.

That doesn't make sense at all. No. I mean, that's what this guy or whoever it was was suggesting. I don't know. No, I've never told anybody to do that. Now, I have had people that couldn't pay their bills, and so we had to choose. And those are difficult choices, but sometimes that comes up. But, hey, you got this.

You got this. You're on a roll. Way to go. Good job. Well, that puts this particular hour of the Dave Ramsey Show in the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer. Kelly Daniel, our associate producer and phone screener. I am

Dave Ramsey, your host. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show one of the top five most downloaded podcasts last year.

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