The Ramsey Show - App - The Borrower Is Slave to the Lender 100% of the Time

Episode Date: August 14, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey show we help people build wealth do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships I'm Dave Ramsey your host Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today thank you for joining us he's a number one best-selling author and host of the Ken Coleman show as well Shauna's with us Shawna is in Chicago. Hi, Shawna. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Thank you. I appreciate you and your staff and what work you did to get to give me some direction. I appreciate it. Thank you. We'll try. How can we help? Well, I need some help finding a job. I'm 72, married, no access to any finances. That was taken away from me four and a half years ago.

Why? I don't know. I used to handle, he has a business out of the home. I worked for him for 27 years, no pay, no putting into my social security. So I was, anyway, so all of a sudden, I don't know, change of life, what the heck happened, but he took my name off everything, deleted our life insurance policies. So I have no idea what we have. I did. Why are you going along with that? What are my options?

I'm off all the... That sounds abusive to me, does it not to you? Well, for sure. From what I find out, it's financial abuse, which is illegal. And I have a call in today, it kind of escalated, and I have a call into legal aid because obviously I have no money for an attorney. But yeah, I know he is up to his eyeballs in debt.

He did this two other times, took the responsibility away from me and made such a mess that I cleaned it up for him two times. Well, yeah, he lives downstairs and I live up here. How long have you all been married? 52 years. So anyway, I'm looking for some side hustle, something I can do from home.

I have a lot of health issues, which creates a lot of medical bills, which, you know, I'm having trouble keeping up with. I owe my daughter $2,300. She's, I don't even get money for groceries. I think the last time I went to the grocery store was a month ago. She gives me food that she feeds her family. And anyway, it's, it's, you don't need a side hustle. You need to see a lawyer today. That's right.

Well, that's, I know. And a lawyer will take, a lawyer will take your case on the idea that they're going to get money that the two of you have community property. I don't care if his name's on it, your name's on it. It's Illinois. And half of what is owned in a 52 year marriage is yours, on it, your name's on it. It's Illinois. And half of what is owned in a 52-year marriage is yours, whether it has your name on it or not. And an attorney can explain that to this, your husband's out of control, honey. This is weird. I know. And the

problem is that if I go, why I haven't gone to a lawyer is I'm afraid we're going to lose our house. He has not paid income taxes in three years. Do you think not dealing with this is going to keep that from happening? No. Of course it's going to happen anyway. The only difference is you're not going to see it coming. I'm going to lose my house. I'm going to lose.

You already have, probably. But we don't know. I mean, we don't know. You don don't know you don't know all you're worrying about is the the troll that lives in the basement i know and you're scared of him yeah i'm afraid that he's gonna i'm gonna lose my house and maybe you missed under missed the point you could be 10 payments behind right now and not know it and you're knowing it doesn't keep you from losing it the house is paid off that i i took care of that back when it was yeah it was yeah we don't know if it is now oh yeah well i guess you're right but you need to

find out what the flip's going on not knowing is not a strategy i do a little snooping in his honey get a lawyer and hit him between the eyes that's right you're being abused quit dancing with this go smack it i still need to find a job okay so let me ask this. What did you do to clean it up before? You said you cleaned it up. That implies to me that you might've been working. Is that correct? You had some income. Never? Yes. I worked for a nonprofit and all of my check went into the business account. I know I've been terribly- Okay. So what did you do for the nonprofit? I was an admin. Okay. What I would be looking for today. Okay. But Dave's you do for the nonprofit? I was an admin. What I would be looking for today. Okay. But Dave's right. Don't miss what we're saying.

Your first agenda item is a lawyer. And if it's only legal aid, you get a bulldog who wants to make a name for themselves and get some media on the story. Because this guy is an absolute psycho from a Lifetime movie. That's what I think your husband is. I'm not going to mince words on that. So you need to play that up. But listen to me. What you need to do today is you need to be looking at, there are national organizations out there that have, they are remote administrative positions. Okay?

So it is an executive assistant, and it is remote. And if you've done it before, you can do it again. Customer service where you're on the phone, large companies, they're looking for people who are willing to get on the phone all day long and answer questions. They give you a script. These are things that you can do, and you can do it full time, 40 hours a week. But I would use that experience and try to become an executive assistant that is,

again, remote. You don't have to leave the house. These are things you can do now to try to become an executive assistant that is, again, remote. You don't have to leave the house. These are things you can do now to try to bring some money in. But my goodness, Dave, this is bananas. Sean, what I'm afraid of is you're looking for a job to make a little money so that you don't have to deal with this. That's a very good point. But guess what? You got to deal with this. And the sooner you decide you're not going to you've been avoiding it for 52 years you've been walking down this thing and you know for four years you've been living in a completely abusive situation and you've been avoiding dealing with it my daughter gets me

some groceries so i don't have to deal with it i'll get a job i can get a little money so i can survive upstairs and the troll in the basement can do what he wants and i don't have to deal with it. I'll get a job. I can get a little money so I can survive upstairs, and the troll in the basement can do what he wants, and I don't have to deal with it. But guess what? You're still going to have to deal with it. This stuff has a high rate of resurrection, as our friend Les says. When you keep these things buried, they just pop back up like a dadgum zombie,

and you have got to deal with this stuff. And so the sooner you come to the conclusion of, I know I'm scared and I'm afraid of what I'm going to find out, the unknown, the devil that I know, is sometimes much better than the unknown. But the unknown right now seems to be friendly to you. You prefer not to know how bad this situation is. You prefer not to go through the heavy amount of conflict that is probably in your near future.

But you really don't have a choice. You're living like a homeless person. No money to buy food after 52 years of marriage not the honey that's ridiculous so you're gonna have to get an attorney you have to deal with this starting right now and i can't believe your daughter is standing on the sidelines watching this circus and hasn't reached and grabbed her dad by the hair and said, you straighten up, you common, and feed my mother. Oh, my gosh. First time I got to buy groceries for somebody that's supposed to be taken care of by somebody else. That's what I'm going to grab that somebody else.

Hello. Hey, Ken. Psycho Lifetime movie? Yeah. Lifetime movies have psychos? Yeah. I thought that was Hallmark. No? Yeah. Lifetime movies have psychos? Yeah. I thought that was Hallmark.

No, no. Lifetime. Hallmark is all G-rated. Lifetime gets you a PG-13. Okay. Okay. Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. The best way to make the most of your money is by creating and sticking to a monthly budget. Every dollar makes it simple to plan spending, track expenses, and save for what matters most to you. All in an easy to use app that fits into your busy lifestyle.

Keep a pulse on your spending and make progress on your money goals with EveryDollar. Download EveryDollar for free in the App Store or Google Play or just go to EveryDollar.com. It'll work there, too. Vincent's in New York City. Hi, Vincent. How are you? I'm good, Dave. How are you?

Better than I deserve. What's up? So I just graduated undergraduate in accounting and finance in May, and I have a job lined up full-time for October. I'm now studying for the CPA, and I'm just kind of second-guessing the whole field, honestly. What's causing you to second-guess it? I did an internship last summer for a big accounting firm in the city,

and although it was great, I made a lot of connections and learned a bunch about audit, which is the particular field I'm in. I don't know if the corporate culture is for me. I mean, I usually love working with my hands, working outside. And I was looking into getting a degree in engineering management just one year online. I have no student debt, so I was wondering if that's maybe a good idea, if I like that better. Maybe, but before we determine that, I would take this job that's been offered to you because you're trained for it. You know you can actually do it. And I would go ahead and let's start

putting some money in the bank and stay debt-free and then cash flow if, if, if, if you spend some time, I'm going to give you a concept called the proximity principle. It says in order to do what I want to do, let's say it's engineering in your case, I got to be around engineers. I got to be in places where engineers are. That could be online groups. That could be local groups. I got to be around engineers. And the whole purpose is I want to verify that this is actually something that I will enjoy doing. And the way to do that is coffees, lunches, if they'll let you shadow them for half a day. That's how you assume everything that you can possibly assume about it. And I call that

clarifying and verifying. And that's just going to allow you to go, okay, I get excited. I get the juice when I watch this kind of work or I hear about it. I hear the good, I hear the bad, and I hear the ugly. And after that point, if your head and heart are aligned, that means your logic and the emotion for the actual work, then the answer is if you have to go to school for one year to get a ticket to the dance, then the answer is yes. But while I'm determining this, if it were me, I would take the opportunity right in front of me because I know I can do it. And if it takes me a year, year and a half or so to make that transition, if in fact

that's the right transition, that's the way I would play it if I were in your shoes yeah it's very unlikely you spend four years sit for your CPA to do accounting that you absolutely detest accounting now maybe you detest corporate America well that doesn't mean you have to do that that's a different issue where you do accounting doesn't matter you can do accounting a lot of different places or where you use the skills from an accounting degree and a CPA. Not unusual for a CFO to graduate into the CEO role in a company, a mid-sized company or a small company. Not unusual at all for that to happen because they know how to run the financial side of the business. And so, you know, numbers people do well inside a

business. Uh, and so it's not required that you sit in the basement, um, with books stacked around you and no one knows you're there like Milton and his stapler to do audits. Okay. It's just not required. That's not that that's not the only picture that your degree sets you up for. So I would do something like Ken saying and really lean into it and say, all right, here's the parts of accounting I hate after really doing it with great gusto for a year. And here's the parts of accounting I really like because something led you here, you didn't wander along doing something for the last four years that you detest and then suddenly when you're sitting for your cpa and you actually have to go to work now all of a sudden you wake up and go i've been working on things i hate the

whole time no you haven't that's not true you looked over and didn't like the place you're about to land that's what's going on and so dude lean into it go bust something knock something over be be a force of nature in the marketplace uh have some enthusiasm for what we're doing here and and if the place you're working at sucks go get another place no this is not slavery you're allowed to move around yeah and it's not a permanent yeah and the only thing i'd add to that dave you're absolutely right is he's got to absolutely you can't let a feeling like a negative experience or a negative environment over an internship totally knock you off the path exactly that's the issue check it out make sure this

wasn't a this wasn't a series of emotions that made you question the wrong things well and and so what am i gonna i'm gonna go get another dadgum degree oh geez you're killing me i know that's just the worst thing to do i'm gonna i'm gonna i'm gonna hide by hide from facing down these demons and figuring out what i'm gonna do by running from degree to degree to degree and end up with more degrees than a thermometer and never done anything. Right. So, no, I don't want to do that. I want you to go to work.

Now, what? Get out here in the marketplace, knock some stuff down, get knocked down, find out what's fun, find out what you hate, and then let that inform your next career shift. And, by the way, you may not have to touch another classroom to go from CPA into simply managing engineerspa that's right into simply managing engineers that's right one of the quick call out here on this and we don't know this is what vincent did but a lot of people dave could wind up in vincent's place because they

were always good at numbers and because they were always good at numbers they kind of go well that's the direction i go and then all of a sudden, he goes that direction. This could have happened. And then he realizes, when I actually get in there and see it, I realize I don't want to be number crunching. But see, that's a mistake that can be made as well. You've got to combine the talent with the work that's enjoyable. And so that same numbers brain could very well do well in engineering because it's the analytic side of the numbers that he enjoyed more than the actual. Okay, help me make the distinction between this, okay?

For people out there listening, Vincent aside, okay? I don't know what bucket, I don't know what verbiage to put with this. You probably have the vernacular for this, okay? So, there are people that are really good with numbers and love to crunch the actual detail down in the weeds. I, on the other hand, I am fabulous at math. Yeah, very good. It's a natural skill for me, and I det right going into the details that's correct so i'm designed to do what i do right here on this microphone uh but if you had put me in the

basement with my stapler and milton beside me i mean i would have gone postal right so let me so let me give you that i'm not gonna say that anymore are you i think you can that's okay it's one of the great scenes from a great movie. Okay, so. Not Milton, the postal thing. Oh, the postal. Oh, yeah, I guess you can't say that. See, I'm so unaware of all those things. Me too. I'm the worst guy to ask on what's offensive.

I don't care. Me either. All right, so here's the difference. You're good with math, but if you were to take the talent of math and then take a work like analysis, you'd go crazy but what you did is you took the talent of math and you married it with the talent of instruction you're a teacher yeah that's what you've done see how you work that is there not some people that use a certain skill on a uh from a a strategic viewpoint and some from a tactical viewpoint,

that's the bucket I'm looking at. I'm above it looking down on it, not in a snobbish way, but I mean, if I have to get down in it, it's messy. But I can do the big math real fast here, and I can look for patterns in this place. I can go over our accounting reports in 15 minutes here and know exactly what's going on at Ramsey. I can see the numbers.

They talk to me. That's right. They talk to me. But if I had to create those numbers. That's what I'm saying. You're not a process guy. You're an instruction guy. You're a people guy.

But I think people out there, what can happen is somebody that's good at math thinks the only way to utilize that skill is the tactical detail. That's it. You can't just take proficiency and say, the only thing I can do is tactics. You could be really good at the English language and not need to be writing content every day. That's exactly right. Well, the methodology is this. I use what I do best to do what I enjoy. And you took your talent of numbers and you combine it with what you enjoy, and that is

teaching and instructing and communicating. I think sometimes people get real tactical with their gifts. Oh, yeah. Just, I can only do this. Yeah. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down.

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So, man, I've been able to teach a class back in the day at church, and I've really been trying to get ourselves in a better spot in a family. I work as a teacher, and here recently, after basically having a second mortgage, paying off student loans, we sold everything. We moved to a rental, sold our home, paid off everything, and here we find ourselves debt-free, loving the extra income, have a chunk sitting in savings, and really just kind of like, okay, now what? Looking to kind of get some guidance on what to do with the chunk of money that we have sitting there and setting some stuff up for our kids for college and what we should do next. You're renting?

Yes. We moved to a rental here back in June. And how much is the chunk sitting there, and you're debt-free? A little over $50,000. Okay. All right. And how old are your kiddos heading to college? Not quite yet.

I've got a 16-year-old that's in high school, and he's a junior this year, and then I've got a 12-year-old. And your household income's what? About $8,700 a month is our take-home. Good. Good. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, do you have the emergency fund of three to six months of expenses in addition to the 50 grand or is that in the 50 grand?

No, we do not. We have like 52 grand sitting there, just kind of one big pot at the moment and we took this... So your household expenses are what monthly right around four grand okay so you need uh 12 or 15 000 sitting for an emergency fund carve that out of the 52 put it in a separate account okay now you're at baby step four five and six you should be putting 15 of your income away for retirement. You should be thinking about kids college. Now that leaves us with the, um, the $35,000, $37,000 that's left in that account. Uh, there's two

things it needs to go towards. One is we need to sit down and do some detailed planning on where the 16 year old is going to go to school, like in state tuition or community college. And so what money of that do we need to set aside? We don't need to set it all aside. And what money of that are we going to cashflow and what money is he going to get on scholarships and what money, um, is he going to earn while he works while he's in school those are three you know so where you go to school gives us the price tag then how much in scholarships and work is he going to help with what are you going to maybe give him a jump start year one or something like that and um you know of course school, school selection is the biggest thing you decide financially on college is where they go. Because it'll range from $10,000 to $80,000 a year.

Yeah. Okay. So, obviously, this kid's not going to $80,000. You don't have it. Right. Okay. So, we need a strategy for his. So, here's kind of what I'm thinking. I'm thinking you're probably going to earmark about 17 of that 37 towards the 16

year old to get him going. And you're going to pick some schools. You can cashflow, he can help pay for, and he can get scholarships for, and we lay out a strategy now that that 17 will help you accomplish. And then I'm going to use the other 20 towards to rebuild a down payment fund to purchase another home sure does that make any sense yeah that makes sense i think the other part with that was just kind of okay with that that excess now that's each month with what to do with that where we look to put power in the build-up college if you if the 17 once you lay the formula out the detail formula starting with we're going to go to the inexpensive school what's it actually cost let's look at the school let's what's the actual

numbers let's don't dream up and have vague theoretical concepts lay down the numbers this is what it costs to go to kansas state and this is what it costs to go to Kansas State, and this is what it costs to go to be a Jayhawk, and this is what it costs, you know, whatever it is, right? We're going to lay it out here, and here's the community college, and now we're going to choose. Okay, that's all right. If we put 17 towards that, you're going to go get scholarships for this much,

and you're going to work, and we're going to provide a little bit out of our cash flow when you get there two years from now to help you get through debt free okay so once we've got that laid out if the 17 works as an example it's an example now i've got so i took the 52 and i've carved it into three buckets 17 for the kid 15 for the emergency fund that leaves me 20 in the in the uh down payment fund and all excess that i can find in the monthly budget is going to go to build that up because you need to get back in a house sure long term i mean we're not panicking but we need to have so the point being is we've got a

series of goals here all of them are good goals and we just need to force rank them and work our way through them and that's all I was doing with you yeah that makes sense yeah really good job it feels pretty good sitting where you're sitting doesn't it yeah it's a wild thing you know and looking at only six seven years away from potential retirement as a teacher you know I like what that PSRS system looks like but I don't want to set ourselves up to not have our kids be 45 and paying off student loans, you know? Yeah, we don't need that. We don't need that. We're done with that. You're breaking the cycle. And so for sure. Yeah, sure. Way to go. Good job. Yeah. I love that move. I love that, you know, because now they've got a blank canvas and if they follow the baby

steps, now we're talking about baby steps millionaires pretty soon absolutely bob's in dallas hey bob how are you bob for taking the call sure how can we help hey dave can you hear me yes sir what's up yeah quick quick quote and my fiance and i have separate iras and uh once we get married your phone your phone's cutting out you said your fiance and you have separate IRAs, and once we get married... Your phone's cutting out. You said your fiance and you have separate IRAs, and once you get married, what? Should we combine those IRAs into one IRA account, or should we leave them separate? You can't. You cannot.

IRA stands for individual retirement account. Okay. There are no married accounts, but you do have beneficiaries on all of them okay so all 401ks and all iras should have a beneficiary name meaning when you die who's it go to and you need to change those to your wife's name and she needs to change those to her husband's name got it you wouldn't believe the number of times dude it probably doesn't apply to you but the number of times we find out four years later somebody dies after a divorce and forgot to change the beneficiary and the x gets the 401k money boy people get pissed off when that happens you don't say you forgot to change the beneficiary on the life insurance or

on the after the divorce or on the 401k i have bad dreams about that stuff like every year we do our annual meeting with our with our actual smart investor here locally and i'm always like that have i forgotten have you checked everything to make sure i've done it right yeah debbie is in detroit hi debbie welcome to the ramsey show hi thanks for taking my call sure how can i help um so i'm out of debt other than our mortgage, and we're on steps four, five, and six. And my job just last week offered all of the employees a buyout. Yay! Yay! A five-month salary and six-month payout of COBRA, complete payout of our paid time off, a bonus.

And I'm just trying to figure out if I should take this or not, or if I should stay with the company. What would you do if you didn't take it? What's the alternative? Well, that's the problem. If I stay with the company, I'm in a department of two people. And for sure, the other woman that I work with in that department is taking this package. So they would probably expect me to take on the work of two full-time employees. And how do you feel about that future? I don't feel good about that. Yeah what do you make? Well with overtime I make about 120. What do you do? A year. I'm in

purchasing. Okay so what if you went and got another job in purchasing like in 20 minutes? And this huge amount of money becomes just a signing bonus. Exactly. That was my plan because there is an opportunity for me to stay with the company until April 2025. So my plan was to find a job that starts in April 2025 as soon as I walk out the door of this company and just pocketing this pay-off. Every bit of that buyout and payoff. Yeah, that's your plan.

Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes. I like it. That's fun. This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down.

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you need Y-Refi. Y-Refi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch. And they give you a low fixed rate loan customized to you so you can actually pay your bill. That's pretty cool. It's a good way to get the whole thing straightened out. Go to whyrefi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y. R-E-F-Y dot com slash Ramsey. Might not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Aiden in Virginia. I had a work accident that put me out of work for a few weeks. When I returned to work on light duty, I was assigned to a different department. I enjoy it and have been asked to stay in this position, which will come with a hefty pay

increase. The only downside is that if I choose to stay in this position, a work friend of mine will probably be fired. He's the person who encouraged me to grow in my relationship with God and to do the baby steps to tackle my finance issues. How do I save my friendship with my coworker if they fire him and give me his position? I'm scared that he will think I've been faking the friendship and just trying to take his job. I don't want to lose this opportunity at work, but also don't want to be the cause of my friend losing his job. Well, Aiden, I'm a little confused with the way the question is worded

because they've put you in a position, and they want you to stay in this position, and I don't see the connection to where that position was his position because he's still there. So if you know something we don't know and you've got a hunch here, if your hunch is right, this is a pretty sticky situation. It's a pretty tough situation. And I don't have a quick answer to that, although what I would do is they've asked you to stay in this position. So that implies they like you and you've got a little bit of

leverage to say, hey, here's a question. If I take this, I've heard this or I'm feeling this, is this true? Because you've got some hunch or somebody's told you something, and I would go to the leader in a private meeting, and I would ask the leader if this is in fact true. I would not assume anything. I think you've added drama to this. Yeah. I don't know if that's true. The way you've

worded this, it doesn't sound like it's a lock. So, here's the thing. Business ethics are fairly easy. Treat other people like you want to be treated. Okay.

So, you switch shoes. How would you want your friend to treat you? If it was you, I can tell you what I'd want them to do. I'd want them to come clean, tell the whole bunch. If I'm you, I'd walk in the boss's office and I say, boss, thank you for this position. I am so grateful. I'm so excited. But I got to tell you, if it means that my friend gets fired, I can't do it to him. I'm not going to be the cause of my friend losing his job.

As much as I want this, I would love to have this job. But I will not. I cannot do that. It's wrong for me to cause my friend to get his head chopped off. No. That's the answer. I agree. And if you lose the job, you lose the job. But you can't.

You've got to sleep with Aiden. You've got to look in the mirror. You've got to put your head on the pillow at night and go, whew, I feel pretty good. That sucked. I lost that position, but I did the right thing. I got to tell you, man, you can sleep when you do the right thing. Even if the right thing hurts, even if the right thing leaves a mark, you can sleep, and you don't get to your deathbed, you know,

many years from now with this stuff swimming around in your head, wishing you hadn't done this crap. Yeah, I agree. But let's get to the bottom, and let's make sure this is in fact the case it doesn't feel like that the way it's been set up here so we'll see you just put all this stuff on the table it makes everybody that's trying to do stuff behind the curtain pay no attention to the men behind the curtain you rip the curtain open shine a spotlight on the whole thing and just say it all out loud. As Deloney says, turn all the lights on. And by the way, that advice, when he says it that way, he's taking the high road.

And in that situation, he can read the body language, read the tone, read the stumbling, the stammering, if in fact that happens. And now he has a really good idea and he doesn't hurt his brand within the building. It's a win, win, win all the way around to handle it that way. Absolutely. And if they're willing to lie and go behind your friend's back and slit his throat, you're next, buddy. That's true. It makes you think you're different.

So this ain't the sweetest job in the world. All of a sudden it's a toxic environment and you want to get out of there anyway so this this this you know the process of flipping on all the lights reveals everything here all right boys and girls it's like ken one of my favorite things not sarcasm um is someone comes in my office and says you know i need to tell you something about such and such, but you can't use my name. And I'm like, well, you can't tell me. Right.

Because you're what's known as a gutless wonder. Right. You know? And no, you can't tell me. If you can't stand behind your problem, then you're just a gossip. And I'm not going to, as a leader, I'm not gonna i'm not as a leader i'm not gonna act on anonymous sources you can kiss my anonymous source not a chance we're doing that no way that's just gutless man yeah i agree i agree crazy zach is on the line zach is in

calgary hey zach what's up hey can you hear me all right? Absolutely. How can we help? Perfect. Yeah, so I've been looking for an outside opinion on my situation here. And I know you guys are going to give me a straight answer. You can count on that, brother. Yeah. So we are a little tight on mortgage, me and my wife. We knew that.

What's that mean? Well, it's probably north of 40% of our take-home. Yeah, that sucks. Monthly pay. Yes. So we're trying to get some advice on what we should do. What is the probability that your income is going to increase dramatically quickly? Unless I take side jobs consistently and work 12 hours plus a day, not likely.

You want to do all that just to keep a house? I don't. No, not really. You sell the house. You bought a house you can't no not really you sell the house you bought a house you can't afford yeah um if your income's not gonna go if your income's not gonna go up fairly quick not i mean you know in the next year two years or something like that to where this is where the house payment ends up being 25 maybe 30 percent of your take-home rather than 40 percent

you're you're you know you're in an unsustainable mathematical situation. You don't have any wiggle room in your dadgum budget. You are what we call house. The house owns you. You don't own the house. Oh, I feel it. Yeah.

Um, our other, our other idea was with a job offer about two weeks ago, that's in a smaller town that pays less, but we could buy a house cash or have a very small mortgage and maybe $100,000. What would keep you from doing that? It's a small, small town. You don't want to live there.

Okay, that's fine. That's good. That's a good answer. Yeah. Nothing wrong with any of this. And so here's another option. Get a better job yeah and stay where you are well that's the thing i'm uh i'm a plumber and i got one of the better paying jobs

in calgary so what's your wife do uh she would stay home okay home school and her kiddos okay all right yeah you guys just you you you got um house fever which causes the brain to stop working and causes us to purchase something we can't afford and then the fever went away and the bill is still there and you woke up and realized you'd made a mistake and so i'm sorry you you either have to get your income up or you have to get rid of this house these are your two options there's nothing else that's going to work here, man. What you're sitting in and you've discovered this, you knew it before you called us. It's unsustainable. You cannot win. Everything you do after you pay this house payment is hard because the house payment is just eating your lunch. No pun intended. So, I mean, it's just,

it's hard. I've done it too, Zach. zach i mean i've done that kind of thing you go oh crap i'm so what did i do you know you get oh man it's hard but the good news is you can sell it and you know it's not uh it's not a tattoo it's not gonna be there forever so you can get rid of it that's a plan get rid of it sell the Sorry. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, host of the Ken Coleman Show, number one best-selling author of the book Paycheck to Purpose, is my co-host today. We're here to help you. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

Kristen is with us in Fort Worth, Texas. Hi, Kristen. What's up? Hi, Dave. I am so honored to be on the show. I'm a little bit nervous. I'm trying to gather my thoughts to make sure that I've asked all the questions I want to ask. But I would first of all like to say that I'm thankful to my husband for funding your show almost five years ago. We were able to put down, save $50,000 to put down on the house. So I appreciate all the hard work that you pour into others to be able to change their family tree. So I want to start out by saying that. Good job. And I guess I have more of a moral support question. I know the last year my husband's been able to, you know, I was following along with his plan. And for the last year, I'd say I intentionally try to follow your plan and listen to y'all show

on my way home from work. And a lot of people call on for moral support. So my husband recently lost his twin brother yesterday. He took his life. Oh, my. His twin brother committed suicide yesterday? Yes. Oh, my. I'm so sorry.

Yes. And I think for me, we have five children, and I just want to know how I can support him the best. And, like, any wisdom that you all may be able to bring to the table would be very helpful. And just how I can support my husband through this time while also mourning and not getting so down that I can't support my household and support my husband. And then I'm just afraid of losing my husband through this pain so i don't know like the right steps to take do i just let him mourn for a while and then mention maybe him getting counseling or i just never been through this yeah well i haven't either. I wish Dr. John Deloney was sitting here beside me. Not that Ken Coleman has chopped meat or something, but neither one of us are professionally trained in what you're facing, obviously.

Okay? And he is. That's why I mean that. So just working in pastoral care around families that had all kinds of things have happened over the years, a couple things that come to mind are the good news is that ladies have a tendency to understand this quicker than men. We have to train men in these situations because guys like to go in and fix everything. We want to go in and make it all better. And you can't here.

And so what we called it, and still do call it, when you've got a friend that's hurting, in your case your husband is hurting, we call it the ministry of presence, just going and sitting, being present. You don't have to say anything. You don't have to do anything. You don't have to come up with some pithy saying. People say some of the dumbest things at funerals.

Well, he's in a better place well yeah he is but i still miss him you know uh well i can't understand well nobody understands i mean you can't there's not there's not a thing you can say that makes this pain go away so don't say anything that's the point or don't say much don't try to come up with a bible verse that answers his pain it doesn't you just have to walk through it with him. So just holding his hands, making some comfort food. You know, if he wants to talk, let him talk. If he wants to cry, let him cry.

And just being present. And grief is a process. You go through it. It comes in waves generally. And you do go through it, though. You don't stay in it. This is particularly hard because suicide is particularly hard to grieve. The loss of a twin, because there's a special connection.

There's a special connection. We have twin sons that are um eight so i feel like it's almost hard to you know look at them and under the circumstances well you can look at them and say it's a beautiful thing twins are they have a special connection my wife's a twin she and her sister they said they sometimes know what the other one's thinking and they're three hours apart you know i mean i it's it's strange and it weird, and it's wonderful, but it's sad. It makes us super sad. So your kids are going to be okay, you're going to be okay, and your husband's going

to be okay, but it's going to take some time. And just be kind and present and loving and, you know, listening. Don't try to fix it if it goes on for weeks on end and he becomes depressed and doesn't go through the uh the grief process it doesn't begin to gradually the some sunshine coming out of the dark clouds then yeah you're going to recommend you see somebody but not 24 hours after his brother commits suicide he does not need therapy 24 hours after he commits suicide yeah i would jump in really quick though chris Kristen. If I were you in your shoes, as the spouse, and the fears that you've shared with us, I would call our friends at BetterHelp.

This is a wonderful service. These are licensed therapists. And having someone who's a real pro give you some steps that you can take and advise you and counsel you. I agree with Dave, your husband doesn't need it, but this wouldn't be a bad idea for you to get some sessions in there and have someone guide you through the best way to be present. As Dave said, there are some ways that you can do that. And you also need to confront your fear because your husband's twin brother committed suicide doesn't necessarily mean that you should be projecting that fear. And I would talk to a professional about that. I think that'd be a wonderful step for you to give you some tools to be present.

Yeah, that's so sad. Wow. Tragic. The other thing the Ramsey family would do, we'd be on the phone with our pastor. Yeah, that's absolutely right. And we would want the closest mature, wise, calm pastor team and friends from our church community in our living room. And we're in the south, so you have to bring a casserole to everything it's like a rule so um everybody brings food it's like you're supposed to gain weight during this time it's like but we do it's it's part of the process it's old school but that there's community community um what is it uh deloney says he always quotes the author uh grief demands a witness and so having sitting in a room by yourself is not a good way a healthy way to grieve yeah you know i just want to be by myself

yeah that's okay for a little while but uh having people around you just not to fix you, but just sitting there with you. Yeah. Community is a big deal. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage, just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on. Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way,

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Yeah, we're giving you away cash. How about $10,000? You know, the average student loan payment is $500, so that's around 20 extra payments. For a lot of people who pay off their loan, right? Hey, we actually have student loan forgiveness that works. Oh, for one person. Yeah, we're going to give away $10,000. Yeah, that's pretty neat. So go to

ramsaysolutions.com slash giveaway now through August 31st. You can shop our $12 sale and you can enter the giveaway. No purchase necessary. Must be 18 to play. So if you want a $12 sale on any of our bestselling books by Ken Coleman, Dr. John Deloney, Dave Ramsey, Rachel Cruz, Jade Warshaw, and George Campbell. They're there. RamseySolutions.com. Gina is in Gainesville, Florida. Hi, Gina. How are you?

Hey, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? So a crane fell on top of one of our investment properties two days ago. Yeah, it kind of destroyed the house. It's completely inhabitable. And we were all very devastated about it.

And then the tree removal company, they asked for partial payment. The tree removal company, it was their crane? Yeah, it was their crane. And they want to be paid for destroying the house they want to be paid a partial uh payment and me and my husband are just very shocked that we're here that's hilarious house and you destroyed my house and you want me to pay you for that yeah i, I'm glad you're as shocked as I am. Well, that's just ridiculous. That's cray-cray.

So what is their justification for this? Well, they have said that they still have to pay their employees for the work that they do. Well, yeah. That's their employee that dropped a crane on my house. Yeah, that's kind of where we're feeling we're feeling it's a completely ridiculous thing for them do they have insurance yes they do they have insurance and we're in the process their insurance can pay their employees yeah that's what we were thinking i was i mean that's what sounds normal yeah so let me just help you with this i'm not paying them yeah that's what we were wondering if we should pay or not nope nope nope nope and by the way

just asking for that so asinine that it's just laughable yeah i mean we thought that but we're like we're not business professionals it's just common sense. It's common sense, okay? I mean, the mechanic working on my car runs it out the back and totals it. But he wants to be paid for the brake job. I mean, really? That's what we're talking about, right? Yeah, pretty much to a certain extent. It's just dumber than crud, man. Some people, their parents are cousins.

Oh, my gosh. That's just, that's strange. Now, I would just, you don't have to be mean about it. You could just say, listen, we're seeking legal counsel because we want to make sure that everything is made whole here. And when our lawyer tells us that we can release funds to you, it'll probably be, we will, but it'll probably be after the house is repaired because that's how these things work. I'm sorry you misunderstood how that's going to work, but that's probably what we're going to do. But we'll talk to our lawyer

and let you know. And you do need to actually probably get a lawyer. Yeah, we're in the process of dealing with lawyers and attorneys and adjusters. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Tell your lawyer about that request, and after he gets done laughing, he'll tell you what he thinks you should do. Because that's exactly what's going to happen. Talk to the... Listen, I'm not able to answer questions as dumb.

You have to talk to my lawyer for dumb questions. Right. Dave's advice was way nicer than mine would have been. I had to tell these folks to pound sand. I mean, just literally get it. I mean, you've got to be kidding me right now. That's so funny. Partial payments.

That's so funny. We have to pay our employees. Yeah. Okay. I know. Probably should do better work. You know, that scotch and that crane thing, that's a big deal. I should get off.

This is horrible. You dropped a crane on my house. There's a YouTube thumbnail right there. Dropped a crane on my house. There's a YouTube thumbnail right there. That's what I dropped a crane on my house. I've not had that call before. 30 years I've been doing the show. Never had the crane dropped on my call. I dropped on my house call.

Cheryl is Spokane. Hey, Cheryl, what's up? Hi, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? I was wondering how do we save for the step four, the three- to six-month emergency fund, and then the next step, retirement, when we have upcoming expenses?

Okay, maybe step three is your emergency fund of three- to six-months of expenses. You're out of debt. You've gotten out of debt. I know, but I will be, I'm on baby step two and we'll be out of debt. How much have you, how have you been, how have you been saving? How have you been getting out of debt? You had money in the room and margin in the budget to get out of debt, right? Yes. Okay. Why can that room in the budget margin in the budget not be used to build up baby step three because we have we need a new well on our property okay i'm wondering today you know how long how long have you needed a new well on the property? A year. Okay and how have you made do without it? We have a cistern so we have water delivered. It costs us $244 a month. How much will the well cost? That and like five different estimates to spend on how

deep they have to drill anywhere from 20 to 30,000. Really? Yeah. You on a mountain or something? No, I'm in the dry part of Washington. Wow. Very rocky. Wow.

Okay. We're spoiled in Tennessee. We poke a hole in the ground, water shoots out. So, yeah, I mean, it's crazy. It's everywhere. A couple doors down. New house, just a couple doors. And that's what they're comparing it to, I think. A new house, a couple doors down.

They had to go 280 feet. Mm-hmm. Why is that 20 grand is it solid rock it's rocky it's not solid rock but okay i i want you to did you actually get a bid yes you had one company or two companies come out and give you a bid. 280 feet is $20,000. That doesn't sound right. I mean, I've drilled a 1,000-foot well in Tennessee, and we didn't pay anywhere near that. It has rock in Tennessee, but not solid rock.

So I really don't know. I've just done it, and I'm certainly not a well expert in the state of Washington. So I'm not questioning. I'm just, it sounds out of whack. So anyway, if I'm in a situation and something sounds out of whack, and I don't know because I'm ignorant about it, meaning I don't have knowledge about it, which is me right now in your situation, I don't know,

I'm going to gather more information. I'm going to become a freaking well expert for 20 grand. I'm going to learn everything about it and every different company in the area that has any kind of new technology or old technology or different kinds of systems. And I'm going to learn, you know, okay, here are the 14 ways this can be done. 10 of them are ridiculous. And these other other four we can seriously kind of comb through and decide which way we're going to do. What is your household income?

Yearly or monthly? Yearly. $62,000. Okay. So it's going to take a while to get $20,000 no matter what we do. Yes. How long have you been doing this cistern to get $20,000 no matter what we do. Yes. How long have you been doing this cistern thing? One year, you said, right?

A year, yes. The other well just went bad? It went dry? Yes. Wow. What a pain in the butt. I'm sorry. That's a hard one.

Because I don't know where you're going to get $20,000. How much debt have you paid and how long did that take you i uh we had um nine thousand in uh debt and it took you how long four months four months ago you did nine thousand in four months making 62 000 you've been making some extra money somewhere no no i mean no i still owe five thousand so i'd say all right so anyway extra work tight budget pile up money to get the money to do the well and do the emergency fund in some order and you need to gather up more information because i'm i've got the german shepherd on this one i've got the head sideways, right?

And I want to learn more. This is The Ramsey Show. Andres Gutierrez is my guest. The machete for your money. I can't do the Spanish version. I chop up credit cards with scissors. He goes into the Latino community and chops them up with a machete. And he does a show much like this show on Spanish radio and in Spanish podcasting,

answering questions. And Andres used to be on our team years ago. He left to start to take what we were doing as a Spanish initiative in those days years ago and to do it on his own with our blessing. And he's an amazing, amazing young man. And he dropped by Nashville today. He doesn't live here anymore. And did our devotional with our team this morning.

And we asked him to come on and hang out since he's a big time radio guy now that he left us welcome my friend dave happier than a flea on a hairy dog i love it to be back home well this is your second home for sure your second home for sure when you're always welcome here so there's an awakening you told me at lunch we were having lunch a few minutes ago in the latino community uh on this whole issue of money yeah and um i mean you and i've been having this discussion about how to take the this message of debt freedom of being responsible being on a budget thinking long-term investing all of the stuff that we do around here and and inserting that more thoroughly into the uh latino community we've been having that discussion for 15 years you and i uh but you're saying it's they're waking up there's a wake up yep dave before i answer that let me just take a minute on Romans 13 it says to give honor what honor is due

and uh I'm happy to be here I mean my my wife and I we lived here for almost six years my kids kind of grew up here but the reason why we moved from San Antonio Tennessee was because there was a moment when in your heart you know there was a soft spot for the Spanish speakers. And the story goes that you were trying to learn Spanish. You even hired a Spanish coach. Yeah. And that kind of didn't work out. Worse than that, we did overdubs that were really bad and nasty.

It was like a kung fu movie. Yeah. You know, it was like, oh, it was nasty. With a Cuban accent. Yeah. Yeah. It was a Cuban. It was a Cuban accent. All I knew was it wasn't English. Yeah. Okay. One it was like, oh, it was nasty. With a Cuban accent. Yeah. Yeah. Was it Cuban? It was a Cuban accent.

I had no idea. All I knew was it wasn't English. Yeah. Okay. One day I took a call. Hillbilly Spanish. Yeah. That's what it was.

But I took a call and said, hey, we're trying to reach this community. We know that these truths, you know, would change their lives. And we're looking for a Spanish communicator. And I remember the question question are you ready and uh i was over there doing my thing as a financial advisor and not long before that i had this dream you know i woke up and i knew there was something special and i saw myself teaching spanish and i told my wife she said i don't know i said you know just pray about it and then that call came in and that's what got this whole thing started. And I just want to say thank you, brother, you know, for your trust.

But I just wanted to say, you know, thank you for that, and I just wanted to honor you today, and thank you for the invitation. Well, thank you. We had a good run here together, and you've had a great run after that. So very, very well done. Very good. Good very, very well done. Very good. Good job, man. But to answer your question,

this awakening didn't just happen because the earth tilted another degree. It happened because we've been with this pick, me and others probably, just with the internet, with the internet opening up you know a platform for a lot of people but we've had this you know pick on our hand and we've just been ken just hitting that rock and hitting that rock and hitting that rock and then one story and

one testimony to a two to four to eight to 16 to 64 to 128 256 56 whatever the number 5 12 10 24 and that snowball you know has now you know impacted tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of families that are living you know this this this awesome life you know where money is no longer a worry and you would be so proud and surprised you know what happens to these families when you know when when they get it can and it starts happening like you know you listen to the show and then what happened like how much people begin to earn you know and and what's happening in their lives now we're doing some conference we're running into people that started with nothing and they're bringing statements with accounts over a million dollars dave like they're bringing the statements showing me a count like

understand there was zero like we had no clue about money but we've been doing it long enough that there's been enough time where these families have crossed the seven you know digit mark because of the stuff that came out and sprung out of here in 2009 i love it very well done now this marriage event you guys are doing uh that's probably different in the latino community is it no okay it is different because imagine you know the way you hear it so you know the way you know you've heard so all we did is we took a little bit of salsa you know just a little spice a little jalapeños and just added some of that stuff to it and uh that's what has us actually it's two things you know my wife and i we wanted to come and hang

out at nashville with some friends and then jorge somebody from the team ran into somebody from from your team and they said hey you know andre's gonna here. Would you come and do Devo for us? And I accepted that and I was excited to be here. And then we said, why don't we do, you know, this new conference? And here's what happened, Dave. You know, I've been doing this conference on money. And when I touch, you know, for those 15 or 20 minutes on marriage and money, I can see people just like scoot up in their chair. And then we started hearing these comments where they're like, Andre's haven I've been married for 20 years. And in those 20 minutes, I've seen more change in my husband.

I've seen more change in my wife than in 20 years of marriage. And I was like, hmm. And read that comment again and heard that comment again. I said, you know what? I think there's something here. So I've been working for the last 12 months,

you know, just kind of reading everything that I can on marriage and money, you know, God's principles and then how to share them. And that starts tonight here in Nashville, Tennessee. Oh, wow. I didn't know you were doing it here. That's awesome. Very cool. Very cool. How's the radio show doing? I love it. I love doing the radio. I love taking the calls. I love answering questions. I love hearing the stories and uh that is kind of that is how much negative pushback do you get not much uh you need to stir up stir it up yeah yeah it's like you're not being honest you know if you're not getting hate mail man

no no the haters are always there okay good the hate is there i don't know if you meant like we're gonna turn off your show we're gonna turn off your radio show we're gonna take you off the station that hasn't happened okay and you know i don't shy away from sharing you know god's principles i don't at all right so but that's that's okay that's what that's that's fine. So the Marriage and Money Hispanic event, Latino event is tonight? Yep. In Nashville? That's tonight. It's going to be in Franklin at the Williamson County Performing Arts Center.

It's a beautiful theater next to the library over there. Yeah, it is. So we're going to be there. We start at 8. We start on time. And for anybody that's listening, there's a Spanish speaker. Come on over. We're going gonna have a good

time talking about this i love it i love it so we have uh i believe you're still using them six lessons that you did of financial peace university in spanish done by andreas uh they have books they have a radio show they have a podcast they have online they have other conferences they're doing if you want to plug in to uh the spanish-speaking side of what we do andreas is our guy yep uh he doesn't technically work on our team anymore but he's family and he's who we send people to um we have no idea what he's saying we hope it's right have you had any complaints no we haven't i'm kidding uh andreas gutierrez.com is how you can find out about him and uh if you jump on you easy to get a hold of him on the internet not any problem at all he's everywhere he's a big deal especially in that community and so i'm so proud

of you it's good to see you again my friend andreas gutierGutierrez.com. Be sure and check it out. And for those of you that are listening live, if you're in the area, you want to come by that event tonight, you can find out about it right there on his website. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman is my co-host. Jimmy is in San Antonio. Hi, Jimmy.

How are you? Hey there, Dave. How are you? Hey there, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, I sent in a question. Your dude got in contact with me, and now I got to ask it to you in person. So in today's world of five-round interviews, automatic rejection systems, and like thousands of people applying for the same jobs, how do you think that a 20-something-year-old dude might try and stand out in today's job market? Personal connection, to the extent that you can find it. And I say this, this is general advice, and I understand that at times it can be more difficult than others. But if you can find a personal connection, and it may be one-to-one,

it's more likely one-to-two, meaning two or three people between you and a person in that building. So if you're applying for company ABC, and the first thing you want to do is just figure out through all of your connections, your close social ties, that's your friends and family, people you're doing life with, and then all of your relationships from acquaintances to former friends at college, Facebook, the socials, all of that. You start to see if you can find somebody that knows somebody in the building at ABC. And what we're trying to do there is,

through the credibility of relationships, will that person at company ABC take your resume? And even though you got to go through all the other stuff, the AI and all the filters, will they take your resume in and talk to the hiring manager and go, hey, listen, here's how I know Jimmy. And this is what I know about Jimmy. And, you know, I think Jimmy's probably a really good candidate to look at. We really want to be that simple. We want to be that analog in a very digital world. That's going to make you stand out.

There's some credibility. Now, there's no guarantee for that. A second piece of advice I would give is if you get into the interview process, the way to stand out in today's world, and I think has always been the way to stand out, is the questions you ask in the interview. Most people don't treat an interview, Jimmy, like the interview is just as much for them as it is for the company that's looking at you. This is a dating thing. What are some good questions he could ask? Great.

So first question I would ask is, tell me the kind of person that wins in this role. This is to the hiring manager. Describe the person that you think is going to win in this role. Another question is, describe your leadership and management style. What would someone need to know to thrive and connect well with you? These are two very interesting questions that require that hiring manager actually think. And in this process, if they've actually thought about that and they have an answer, they're going to give you an answer. You get to assess if you think you're a good fit there. The second thing it will do is whether they got a great answer for it or not, you're going to stand out because you put them on their heels in a good way in other words you didn't ask a twerp question you asked an insightful question that implies that you want to fill that

role and that's the way you ask it those are two samples but i've got a how to win the interview resource at ken coleman.com that's free that goes into great detail so i don't have to list all those out but that's how you stand out in today's interview process. Well, it kind of – I think it's always just a good idea to put the employer shoes on. Yes. So, I mean, as an employer, I don't personally do interviews at Ramsey anymore, ever. I'm not good at it, for one thing. But what I'm looking for is if they're asking questions that tell me they're a taker how much does pay yeah that's exactly how much time off i get right you're just trying to

figure out what how little amount of work you can do for how much money right um instead i like questions they're they're not a taker. They're not subtraction. They're addition. That's right. They're not division. They're multiplication. And so, you know, how can I add value? How can I?

The question you asked, I like that one. It's like, what kind of person wins here? Yeah. You know, if I came in here and, you know, what's the advice you would say to move ahead at ramsey yeah that's a great how can i add value how can i how can i make you more than i cost you because that's really what's running through an employer's head is can i roi this payroll item that's what they're asking it's like if i hire a technician i'm in the heat and air business he's got to do more heat and air work than he than i pay him to make a profit on

having hired him. Otherwise, I don't get to keep him because I can't afford him. Here's another question. Describe how this team that you lead, describe how they work together. What's that? How would you describe, if you're going to pick a one word to describe this current team? Again, an insightful question that yields an answer for you, and it actually gives you some sense of what it's actually like there you know and what kind of what kind of team member what would i need to be right to be a great team member that's right to to add value to this team and to add what kind of synergy can i add or lift can i add um and so uh by the way if you get a nothing answer or a crap answer so if it sounds

like a politician on a Sunday morning show, that's the nothing answer. A lot of words, no substance. Or you get a really kind of crappy answer, that's a warning sign that maybe I don't want to be a part of this team. If I can't sit with a leader and a leader tell me, this is the kind of person who wins here. You do this, you win.

We reward this here. And they, by the way, will show you now ramsey example you ask that question at ramsey and and a leader is going to show you somebody in our company they'll point this way this way and this way and say now they started out in this position now they're here i always think of that old story of the guy walking along the dirt path and he comes along a guy and the guy says what were the people like in that town you just left over there and he said well what were they like in the last town yeah he goes they were wonderful he goes you'll find it would be wonderful he runs another guy and he said what the people like over there and he goes what'd you find in the last town he

goes oh they were horrible they were just awful he goes well you're gonna find that over there too and so so if somebody sits down all they tell me is all the horrible things about all the places they've worked yeah and the only common denominator is them there There you go. I'm done. That's right. Done. So you come in and victim mentality your interview, you screwed up your interview. So because it's possible that you are actually a victim of a toxic thing, but not repeatedly. That's highly unlikely unless you are like attracting this. Well, that's a very good point. I mean, you don't know how to sniff it out.

You keep allowing yourself to go to these. Well, I mean, yeah, or it's, you know, or you're just a drama. You're part of the toxicity. Yeah, you're the you bring it with you. The core of the issue. There we go. Hi, guys. For all of you that are listening to the show right this second on youtube or on a podcast uh at the top of

the hour here the show is going to end and the other 40 minutes of the show is available for free on the new ramsey network app as a matter of fact all three segments of the all the entire show is available the first part and the last part on the the Ramsey Network app, video and audio. And so you can watch the show, listen to the show, however you want to do it, download the show. You can search the show on the Ramsey Network app by subject and find calls that we have taken on each subject. You can send emails that we will answer from the Ramsey on the air from the Ramsey Network app. It is 100% free. We are not going, we do not have plans to take it to a subscription. We simply need to offload part of the programming

and we're built out like our audio book stuff is over there. Everything else is we're starting to build a whole network app literally over there. And the last 40 minutes of the podcast, the last 40 minutes of the YouTube show, is now available only on the Ramsey Network app. So jump on the App Store, get the Ramsey Network app, download it, open your account. It's completely free. You can watch the whole show there, or you can just jump over there and pick up the last 40, whatever you want to do. Google Play as well. It works on all of that if you're listening on radio

nothing changes everything's exactly where it's always been we're not moving a dime on radio so if you're in a city where they carry uh radio runs by the hour if you're in a city where they carry all three hours you're still going to get all three hours we're not changing a thing on that but this is podcasting youtube the last 40 minutes is free and available only on the ramsey network app in the app store or in google play and jump over there and get that done and you can um you can click on the show notes if you want to get the free app too that'll that'll be another way you can get it and get it done um i can promise you this the value is going to be worth the cost it's free it's free okay this is not hard quit your don't be crying about it it's free yeah ramsey network check it out this is the Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships.

I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman. Ramsey Personality is my co-host. Open phones here at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Fern is with us in Miami. Hi, Fern. How are you?

Hey, Dave. How you doing? Good. How can I help? So, I'll be direct to the point. I wanted to know if it's time to sell my house. I racked up roughly, including the house, about $600 in debt. I've been in real estate for the past five years, but kind of hit a dry spell

and haven't did anything in quite some time. And I'm married uh family of family of seven two five in the house two kids don't stay with me but uh um a lot of our bills are backed up including the mortgage we have heat locks and debts and some other stuff and um i'm wanting to know if it's time to to sell the. How long has it been since you made any money? Four months. Why aren't you looking for a job? I am.

I am. I'm actively looking for a job. In the meantime, just to keep up with the day-to-day stuff I do, I do Uber just to, you know, keep up with the smaller bills. But I am actively looking for employment. I just haven't been. What kind of employment? At this point, I'm kind of desperate.

So I've been looking from anywhere between day labor to I used to be a cook. So I started looking into cooking jobs. What was the most you ever made in the real estate business? Annually? Mm-hmm. A quarter? You made $250,000 at one point in the real estate business. Yeah, this was back in 2020.

But ever since, even last year, I did like $130,000. So what happened? I had a life-altering thing that happened at the end of last year. I had to do a major surgery that kind of derailed me and even from getting back into the market. And then at one point where I had some deals that were literally lined up and I had like $50,000 worth of deals that just kind of slipped through my hands for all different reasons. And just my poor management with funds, not having anything lined up.

And even because my real estate primarily was like my own business. I do have a real estate license, but I had a property acquisitions company that I would acquire properties and sell them off to investors. It's just that I just mismanaged the whole thing. But you made $130,000. That's a long way from being a cooker an uber driver that's what i'm i know so even now it's like i could i could easily just just try to keep on the reason i'm doing that now is because i need money to come in the house but here's my question if you

have your license i understand you are not doing the straight up realtor work, but you could be. You could be going getting some listings. You could be just working your community to find people who need to buy a house. I mean, you're not in a bad neck of the woods here as far as the real estate market. So I would feel like that's the effort I would be going after. But I guess my thought process now is I need money coming in like immediately. Well, but I'd be Uber driving while I'm calling everybody. I'd be working in a warehouse manufacturing. I love the day labor because it's going to be a lot more money and a lot more consistent than Uber. But the point is,

is you're doing both at the same time. You're letting life happen to you. You need to happen to life in a really intense way right now, man. Because you've made good money before. That's what we're getting at. Hey, the surgery that you went through, were you depressed after that yeah i was because i kind of think i'm hearing like you lost your mojo like your confidence yeah a lot of that because like when things when i had like deals lined up and they just fell through i kind of i kind of went to fear and panic mode. Well, and before, though, you would have just gone and gotten some other deals. Yeah. Because, you know, all the deals, you had deals fall through when you made $250.

You had deals fall through when you made $130. But you just didn't, your confidence sounds like it shook. So it's okay to sell your house and clean up everything. I'm not mad about that if you want to do it. I'm not avoiding your question. But your house is not your problem. Your bills being behind are not your problem. They're your symptom.

The problem is no income. Agreed? And selling the house does not give you an income. So you've still got to solve the problem if you're debt-free and homeless renting a one-bedroom apartment with 19 kids stacked in there um you still got to go get an income right yes and so let's identify what the core issue is here. The cause that got us here has to be fixed, and that's an income problem. That's what got us here. Or otherwise, selling the house is a temporary thing,

and you're going to be right back in another mess. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah, I figured just selling the house would give me some room to breathe to where I could, you know, even if it's an issue. It does, but it's not a permanent fix. that house would give me some room to breathe to where I could you know even it does it does but it's not it's not a permanent fix it's it is a very short room to breathe because I want you with great urgency to solve this income problem and you know and it may be that you how do you

get your confidence back to go back into the marketplace and be a a hundred thousand to two hundred thousand dollar a year real estate agent again um that is i think you have that inside of you and the marketplace has not abandoned you on that you can do that so if i'm you i'm answering that question and maybe i'm selling the house yeah and i and i i love how you're picking up on that, the depression stuff. I think you could also tell that those deals that fell through, that knocked the wind out of his chest. And he's like, I'm not even sure I belong in this place. And I understand that.

But one of the things I found in coaching thousands of people, doing this in my own life when I've had some big losses, activity, Dave. Solves it all. It really helps. doing this in my own life when I've had some big losses. Activity, Dave. Solves it all. It really helps. There's a reason why psychologists tell us that physical exercise is a great way to fight depression, anxiety, and things, and it's a simple formula. When you're doing something, it helps take your mind off of this narrative that is racking

around in your brain like, you know, it's just rolling around like a skating rink. I'm a loser. I'm a loser. I'm a loser. I failed. I failed. And sitting, literally sitting and commiserating over that can absolutely take you further down as opposed to if I'm in your situation and I'm a father of three, you got a lot more than I do. I am going activity out of my mind with no other purpose than just to take care of the people that I have to take care of. There is no alternative here. So get after it, and you'll find that that activity will just boost you for the simple reason you stop thinking about how bad it is and how stupid you are and all the other false narratives that we all face.

You need to increase your rate of rejection. Yeah, that's a great way of putting it. And build the muscle for it. That's it. This is The Ramsey Show. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. We're glad you're here. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Selling a house in this current

market requires that you get a high-octane, high-protein real estate agent, someone that really knows what they're doing. And that's not somebody that got their license three weeks ago. We're talking about somebody who sells 30 to 300 houses a year. They on top of it, they're getting it done. And we vet these agents. Many of them have been friends for many years and they're in the Ramsey trusted ELP endorsed local provider program. We coached them. They do stuff the Ramsey way and they'll help you. If you want to find a Ramsey trusted real estate agent for free, Go to ramseysolutions.com slash agent. Patrick is in Los Angeles. Hi, Patrick. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Ken, it's an honor to speak with you. You too. What's up? So I keep teetering back and forth on whether this car upgrade I have in mind

is justified or if it's foolish. I, I drive a 2007 Honda Civic right now that runs, but it's become increasingly fussy and uncomfortable. Um, and I'm curious if you think that I've like earned this upgrade I have in mind, or if I should keep driving my old car for as long as absolutely possible. Are you, are you paying cash? Yes. Are you single or are you married? Single. Okay. And the car you're buying is how much?

$35,000. And what's your household income? It's just under $100,000. It's about $97,000, $98,000. Okay. Are you out of debt? Yes. Nothing wrong with you out of debt? Yes. Nothing wrong with your purchase at all?

The rule of thumb we use is, is it less than half your annual income and can you pay cash? Things that have wheels and motors all added together in your life go down in value and they should not be more than about half your annual income because you have too much tied up and things going down. That's not the case with you. Yours is about a third of your income, and you're fine. There's nothing wrong with this at all. You're just kind of a tightwad.

Yes, I'm aware of your checklist, and I know it passes all of that, but for me, this is by far the biggest purchase I will have ever made, and I'm a saver. So I feel like knowing that cars are the biggest thing we buy that go down in value, my brain is telling me, invest this, save it, save toward a house. It feels like... All right, here's an idea.

Let me throw this at you, okay? What's the number in your mind, less than $35,000, where you don't think you'd be feeling this angst? Like $15,000? There's nothing angst? Like $15,000? There's nothing wrong with buying a $15,000 car if you want to buy a $15,000 car. If you're that worked up over it, then ease your way into it.

Buy the $15,000 car, sell it in a year or two. This is all in your head. Yeah. Mathematically, what you're doing is not ridiculous dumb crazy if it was i would tell you right i can vouch for that yeah you're fine patrick if you want to do it go ahead but i'm with ken i mean you know there's nobody making you do it you don't have to if you get more joy out of the money being in the bank and less car then buy less car it's okay but you're not dumb you're not crazy you're not out. But you're not dumb. You're not crazy.

You're not out of control. You have not ruined your future wealth building potential. None of that is true. So you're fine. Again, do whatever you want to do, but that's how we would see it. Kaylee's in San Antonio. Hi, Kaylee. How are you?

I'm good. How are you doing today? Better than I deserve. What's up? My husband and I have invested in a company that he's working for in company shares. And we haven't quite decided what we want to do with that investment. He's leaning towards using it in addition to our retirement when he retires and i'm leaning towards using it towards uh paying for a house or paying for the next family car none of those answers are wrong is this a privately held company or is it publicly traded stock

it's private okay all right i'm not big on investing in privately held companies you have absolutely no control and don't have a lot of liquidity it's hard to get it hard to get your money out right and so uh i wouldn't have much in there if any um and so i'm probably going to lean on your side because leaning on his retirement side means we're going to leave it all in there for a long time and maybe even do more and i'm not going to tell you to do that yeah yeah they require about 5 000 every year in the share purchases or not okay they don't require you to buy 5 000,000. If you're going to buy, it's $5,000, right? Okay.

You don't lose your job if you don't buy stock. That's not legal. They don't do that. No, no. I was under the wrong exception then with whether you had to keep buying shares or not. Yeah, I mean, you might have to to stay in the program, but they have other employees that don't buy shares at all. Okay.

I'm sure they do. So your advice is just to withdraw that money? Yeah, I would withdraw it and use it for a family car, use it for paying off your house, use it for something like that. And advance your financial goals. I'm not going to just withdraw it and blow it but um okay advance what your your financial goals but i i'm gonna in general on the discussion because i'm not a fan of privately held stock because you got no control over it whatsoever i mean you don't want publicly traded but publicly traded you can jump out of

13 seconds and you don't have the ability here and i'm i don't tell people who are publicly traded to put a bunch into it either no more than 10 of your net worth and i don't buy single stocks of any kind public or private so because i don't like the risk so all of that to say i think we're going to come down on your side of the equation here. Ken, I'm seeing less and less of that in the marketplace as an incentive to stay, golden handcuff. Yeah, I think it's changed. I think for one thing, a lot of people don't in this, millennials are now the largest demographic in the workforce. So that's one thing that's changed. And they, by their kind of nature from the minute they've walked into the marketplace they don't see themselves at a place for very long and so

they're moving around so those options for a lot of people just don't even exist in their own value system much less our company's offering that but uh that you're right that that definitely has changed i don't think a lot of millennials even know that phrase, golden handcuffs. I don't even think in their mind they even get that concept. It wouldn't occur to them to be put into golden handcuffs. That's exactly right. That's right. That would be, I think that's probably true. People are just more mobile. That's right. They used to be. The idea with the golden handcuffs, if you don't know, is simply you've got such a great compensation package of some kind that you can't afford to leave. You make so much stinking money there that you can't make somewhere else. And so you are handcuffed to the comp package, which is more than you can get anywhere else.

That's exactly right. So you feel almost like a moron if you were to leave. And that's that idea is you feel handcuffed to it. And here's what's interesting that dynamic too uh you're you're in some way stealing from that company that's paying you very very well if you're not giving everything you got you know because your soul has left the building but you keep taking paychecks that's a that's a dynamic there oh absolutely the uh you know we hear the the the now it's old news, quiet quitting. Oh, yeah.

That's kind of just went away. It kind of fizzled. Well, what's crazy about that is that's a phrase that some writer came up with, all credit to it, because I love the alliteration. It was pithy. But that's not a new phenomenon. Those are just people that are going, I'm not going above and beyond. I'm going to do what's asked of me.

That's what's known as average. And if you want to live an average life, then live average. But people that are above average, whether it be in sports, business, music, you go down the line, they always do more than is asked of them because the want to is greater than the have to. Yeah. I mean, this need to achieve is a real thing. And, you know, when you remove that software from your hard drive, that's a dumb thing. It is. Yeah. It takes you to dumb places. So not Kaylee's situation, for sure.

We digress. Yes. Yeah. Very cool. Hey, good good question we appreciate you calling in this is the ramsey show thanks for joining us america ken coleman ramsey personality is my co-host ryan is in atlanta hi ryan welcome to the ramsey show hey dave ken pleasure to be on. How are you guys? Good to have you, man. How can we help? Good, well hey, yeah, so I am, I currently find myself in the middle of a career crossroads, I guess you could say. Just lost my job a few weeks ago and now thank you um and yeah i just um yeah kind of having some time

to reevaluate some things in life and trying to figure out um how i'm going to spend probably the next 30 plus years or so working and uh yeah just trying to figure out what that light bulb moment looks like or really how to find it um yeah, just looking for your advice on any of that. All right. How old are you? 31. What were you doing? So just recently in sales.

Okay. Did you like it, love it, or couldn't stand it? Like it. What was your favorite part of the sales role? Favorite. Top of the list. Working with people. Working with people.

All right. There's four types of work. You can take every job in the entire universe and put them into four categories. People work, idea work, process work, and object work. When I say object work, I'm talking about you're working with your hands, fixing something, building something. You understand that. So when you look across those four, where do you see you potentially being in? We know people, ideas, processes, or objects. Any interest in any of those three areas? Yeah. Well, so I actually just recently took your test scan and read through your book.

And so it listed out for me that processes was the one that I had the most points in when I got my purpose statement. And the other three, I had threes across the board. They were all even. Okay. So mostly in the process column. All right, great. So, uh, when we talk about process, that could be anything from engineering to project management. There's a whole host of things we don't want to ever kind of pigeonhole you. So the kind of process work, when you think process, what kind of problems do you get excited about solving? Well, I've always wanted to really just any way to make people feel better, whether that's physically or mentally, emotionally. Great. Now we're on to something.

So what's interesting is you took the Get Clear assessment in the book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do, and it scored you as high in process. But what you shared with us, your favorite thing in sales was people. So the reason I talk about those four areas of work and the genius behind this assessment is it shows you your areas of talent and interest and motivation in those areas. So people in process. So you enjoy process work. You're really good at process work, but there's a high people quotient for you. So that could be everything from physical therapy and medicine. That is process that has a people outcome. Do you see how that makes sense?

Yeah. And that's crazy that you said that, because I've actually been tossing around the idea of PT or PTA. Okay, and again, I don't want to limit you to that, because it could be a wide spectrum, Ryan, but here's the key. If you are doing process-type work, it's very A to B to C, organized, logical, that's what we mean by process work, engineering kind of thinking, that idea, analytical, whatever. But process work that has a people outcome, that could be, again, I'm not pushing you to accounting. I'm showing you the wide range of it. And so now as you look at the world of work, you answer these three questions, the people you most want to help,

the problem or desire that they have, and the solution or solutions to that problem or desire. And you keep asking that question every night and every morning for the next three weeks, and I'll bet you your brain, and if you write the answer down, even journaling or typing it, do it in your phone, if you keep asking that question, who are the people I most want to help? What problem or desire do they have? If we use Dave as an example, who are the people they want to help? He wanted to help people that were struggling financially. What problem or desire do they have? If we use Dave as an example, who are the people they want to help? He wanted to help people that were struggling financially. What problem or desire do they have? Well, they had a debt problem and they had a desire to be free, right? So as you

begin to really personalize the answers to those questions, what happens is the ideation takes care of itself. And so you've already done some of that, which is why you said, I'm thinking about physical therapy. And so keep ideating, but through that which is why you said i'm thinking about physical therapy and so keep ideating but through that thing so i want to help people who've got physical pain and because of their physical pain they've got some emotional pain and dave that's the process by which you you take that self-awareness and you listen to your heart and and you go okay this makes a lot of sense because I actually have the talent to do this. So look at your results, your get clear assessment. That purpose statement that we give you is essentially a 50,000-foot view of the world at work below you. And any job you look at, so you would take physical therapy after this phone call,

and you would look at what a day in the life of a physical therapist looks like. If you don't know, go talk to somebody. And then you match it up to your purpose statement. You go, if I'm spending 75% of my day, this is a rule of thumb, doing what I do best or using what I do best, talent, to do something I enjoy, passion, to produce results that I care deeply about, that's mission. Well, now all of a sudden we've got an answer. Ding, passion, to produce results that I care deeply about, that's mission.

Well, now all of a sudden, we've got an answer. Ding, ding, ding. And you can do that across the board. So the world is kind of your oyster here. Good work. Daniel's in Chicago. Hi, Daniel. How are you?

How you doing, Dave? Good. How can we help? Well, I've been listening to you gentlemen for about two years now, and I was, myself and my wife, we were in a financial position that was just extremely, I don't know about the word scary, but concerning. How about that? Okay. I've been building custom homes all over the country for the past 20 years. And, you know, just always had myself financed right to the edge. Okay. Like so many other people. I mean, I'm not the only one not to make that, make it okay to be that way. But listen to your show.

We've gotten ourselves to where we've pretty much paid everything off. We've got a few things left to go. Um, I mean mean if we go down the line i had i had purchased a couple years ago a 75 000 pickup truck that i didn't need bought my wife uh at4 um brand new yukon that was about $90,000 didn't need it you know about six months later I turned around sold them both we had traded in on her Yukon a vehicle that was worth about $50,000 so so you made all this progress you made all this progress way to go how can we help you today well my question to you is like I said I paid off probably almost $300,000 of that in the past couple years.

Good. I've got $180,000 left on my primary residence. $60,000 of that is a second mortgage. I got a rental house that I owe by $100,000. Second mortgage is associated with what? Why do you have a second mortgage? The second mortgage is associated with the Disney Vacation Club. I bought into Disney Vacation Club about 15 years ago, and we love it to death.

So I took a second mortgage out at about a 4% interest to get rid of the 11% interest I was paying on that. To me, that was a smart move. So what is the balance on this? The Disney Vacation Club is zero now because, like I said, we rolled it in. What's the balance on the second mortgage that was from the Disney Vacation Club? About $50,000 now. Okay. Why don't you pay it off?

About $50,000. We could. Go ahead. That's my question to you is I'm getting to the point now where I just don't have the payments. I mean, we were looking at $13,000, $14,000 worth of payments, you know, between living expenses and stuff, you know, that foolishly we did on our own. Daniel, if you're asking if you should get out of debt, you called the Ramsey show. Yes, you should get out of debt.

Well, I'm to the point, do I want to start pumping money into a retirement account? No, you need to clear your dadgum Disney Club purchase. Well, I could sell it, but... No, you need to clear the debt. It's the same as credit card debt. It's the same as car debt. You bought crap you couldn't afford, and you borrowed money to do it. And you need to clean that up before you start talking about doing a bunch of investing and you need to do it now

you've been you've been fooling around with this thing moving it around i got a cheaper interest rate and when you buy it it's a wonderful thing oh that's great you need to pay the stinking thing off it's not a pet we're not we're not over here messing with it all the time. No, get rid of it, dude. Fast as you can. This is the Ramsey Show. Our scripture of the day, Deuteronomy 31.8, the Lord himself goes before you and will be with you. He will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid. Do not be discouraged. G.K. Chesterton says, there is only one certainty in life, and that is that nothing is certain. Well, there's that from a theologian, no less. Okay, there we go. All right.

Maggie is in Edmonton, Alberta. Hey, Maggie, what's that. From a theologian, no less. Okay, there we go. All right. Maggie is in Edmonton, Alberta. Hey, Maggie, what's up? Hi. Well, I have a very complicated situation, and I don't know how to move forward. My husband won the lottery a couple years ago. And he, I didn't know it at the time, but he won it because he was gambling and he's actually a compulsive gambler. So he won at gambling and he's been gambling steadily and increasing, increasing. Um, we ended up buying a house with half of the proceeds, but the rest of it is, uh, gone.

Everything's gone. And, um, and he has put up a, a bunch of credit card debt. And, yeah, I'm just wondering. I stay at home. I don't have money. I just don't know how to move forward. I'm sorry. Do you have children?

Yes. How many? Yes. We have four children, five and under. Oh, my gosh. And I also have three children. Do you under. Oh, my gosh. And I also have... Do you have family in the area, honey? Well, I have my family in the next province over, so not close.

Okay. But close enough that if I knew them, they would be here. But I don't have anybody nearby, no. I'm so sorry you're in this situation. Here's what we know, okay, from 30 years of doing financial counseling. The gambling is the second fastest growing addiction, second only to online porn uh in the marketplace and we are not addiction specialists at ramsey but we have worked with tens of thousands of

addicts and former addicts because 100 of addicts have financial trouble no kidding right so sadly we've had to learn a lot about this and the the problem is this is a very black and white situation either he is going to get some help join gamblers anonymous go to a therapist both and stop gambling and get healed from this addiction and move forward as a normal human being or he's going to go completely broke and he's going to destroy everyone around him there is no middle ground that you cannot be it's not sustainable you cannot i talked to a friend of mine the other day who was doing had been doing uh he's been dry for two years he's off of alcohol and cocaine for two years he's a new friend that i just met been sober for two years and i said why did you quit cocaine and he said there are no old cocaine addicts and he's right

woke him up and he quit he got help and there are no old addicts that are rich there is no such thing and the great lie of gambling is is that it's actually going to make you rich so here's the deal maggie here's the deal maggie you're either going to leave him or he's going to get well or you're going to burn with him this thing's going to burn to the ground he i was waiting because he's i found out about you know the extent of it the last few months um and i i said okay please go to treatment and he just got out of uh one month in person treatment good um nothing nothing has changed okay then he lied gam 100 of addicts are liars yeah and i i just got in i i just got a notice actually that he has an online sports betting account uh that he doesn't know i i know about so i just discovered that this weekend um so he has to stop or you have to leave or you're going

to be there when the fire happens and burns his life to the ground and it's going to burn you too yeah there's no in between yeah it's just heartbreaking and it's scary but listen you're going it sounds like you don't have any future. You've got a future. You've got a tough future. You've got little, little babies, but you'll figure it out a lot better than you will sitting there watching the house burn around you.

No. I don't have my degree done yet. That's okay. You'll make it. You're going to make it. You're going to make it better than you can with him. You're done yet. That's okay. You'll make it. You're going to make it. You're going to make it better than you can with him. You're not stuck. That's right.

You're not. You got to. You have to go do something else. I'd go to where the family is. I would move in with. I'd call your mom and move in with her and go get your, go get you a career going. And, you know, and if he doesn't clean up and stay cleaned up for the next six months, then you're going to have to look at probably a divorce situation.

Yeah. Because he loves this stuff more than he loves his wife and kids. That's a fact. And that's the nature of an addict. Yeah, I just keep waiting. I was saying, you know, I've known about it for two years. I didn't know how bad it was. I found out about it.

It either gets better or it doesn't. You can't talk yourself out of it. So when he chances and he says he's done and then two months later. You've done good. You know what? I'm hearing your heart right now, Maggie. And it's like you're trying to explain to us that you've been a very good and patient wife and you have. Hear us say that.

But you can't do anything else. This is not something you're saying it almost like you're trying to convince yourself that you've been patient enough and you aren't going to mercy and grace and wait this problem to a solve. You are going to have to put a clear ending on this, maybe temporary, but you have to move on now or he's not going to wake up he has to stop yeah he has to stop and if he doesn't stop he's going to burn it to the ground and the only question is are you going to be living in the middle of it when he burns it to the ground that's right a hundred percent maggie there's no 50 there's no 97 there's no gradient on this 100% of addicts And in ashes

It's just a matter of when And I'd say this Maggie You've got to shift your mind from being a good wife To being a good mom And being good to Maggie You deserve better You deserve better than this As a twerp

Selfish I just don't know how to like if i don't know how many you know i say you gotta stop and he says he stopped and then and then i find out he ain't gonna stop till he stops but then i just how i don't know he lies and no kidding and so i i don't know how i can you can't and this isn't about you you can't you didn't do anything wrong that's right i was just trying to figure out how how do i move forward like he was giving me control we already told you you need a clear break he's got to go yeah he's got to go until you get until he gets better i mean if you want to give him six months off before you file for divorce, that's fine. But if I were you, I'd load the kids up and go to your mama's.

Amen. And start planning a life without him. And just go, I'm done. I'm not putting up with this anymore. And it's not because we're trying to punish him. It's not the point. The point is, he's going to burn the house down maggie are you going to sit there until he does and somehow that call that being sweet or i don't know a way

forward yeah you do you do know a way forward you just don't like it the way forward is forward away from him that's the way forward i'm sorry my gosh. This makes me so mad at these guys. I know. Little babies, and he's out there pissing away his life. Yeah, yeah. Unbelievable. Yeah. But there's nothing you can do.

I mean, you cannot make decisions for other people. All you can do is observe their patterns. And so he goes to an inpatient. He comes home. And how does he end his inpatient? He celebrates with a new sports betting account. I mean, this is just, it's like, yeah. He needs to hit bottom, but we don't want Maggie to be there when he hits it.

Yeah. I want him to turn it around. I wish he would turn it around. But I don't think he's going to turn it around until he turns it around. Wow. Wow. Wow. That puts us out of the Ramsey show in the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Take care.