The Ramsey Show - App - The Difference Between Enabling and Helping Someone (Hour 1)

Episode Date: August 20, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Dr. John Deloney. Doc Squared is with us. You got two docs. I like that. So Doc Squared. I can live with that. I like it. Doc Squared is with us. You got two docs. I like that. So Doc Squared.

I can live with that. That's pretty good. Yeah. I mean, I don't sit next to people with two PhDs very often, and so I have to make a big deal out of it when I do. He's with me today answering your questions as well. Ramsey Personality, about life and about money. We're here to help you.

Open phones at 888-825-5225 that's 888-825-5225 we're going to start off with Kristen in Houston Texas hi Kristen how are you well I'm good I'm I'm so grateful that Dr. John is there too because I'm not sure if my question is actually about money or not. It's usually not. I know, right? I'm worried you're going to think this is a prank call, but it's not. I have a really unique situation with money, which is that I am part of a sibling group. We have a very large trust.

It's like a 10-figure trust with assets of around like $3 billion. Hey, I've been there, Kristen. I've been there. Yeah, yeah, so relatable. Never. So it's heavily leveraged. My dad ran it. He passed away a few years ago and he was incredibly aggressive. Just the more debt, the better. It's probably leveraged about 70%. And then a few years before he passed, he wanted to help my husband and I buy a house. But because nothing was ever simple with him at that point, I mean, he was the kind of guy who survived from

like one deal to the next and he would have these big windfalls of cash and then it would be gone before he'd even cleared the bank. Um, basically the opposite of a Dave, but, um, he wanted to help us buy a house and he thought I'm going to take out this loan to do it, and when cash comes in, I'll just pay off their house for them. It's not going to matter. So he did a 10-year loan with a balloon payment at the end, 30-year amortization, and 6% interest. On your house? On our house, on a $3 million loan. So wait a minute.

The house was in his name? The house was in his name the house is in a company i mean nothing is simple you know but it's a company that i um own the stock option too oh okay so um anyways then he passed away he didn't have time to do what he wanted to do and help us pay off our house in cash. So, you know, I feel so grateful to him. I mean, we're in a very weird situation, but we're like blessed beyond measure. My husband and I are now looking at our finances and we've been working your program. We have no debt. Our income is about $225,000 a year. The payments for our mortgage, which are about $18,000 a month, are paid directly through the trust,

and they're paid as advancements against future distributions. So it's our money. I mean, it's coming out of what we would one day conceivably get, but right now the trust is so leveraged that there's not capital for like big distributions. Anyways, I'm trying to decide, do we sell our house? Do we get out from under this $3 million mortgage payment and have peace of mind? Or I guess I just don't know what God is asking of us right now because we love our home. The money is conceivably there.

And part of me feels like maybe I'm trying to get out of learning the lesson of, like, staying on a budget and waiting and being patient. I don't know. Any thoughts for me? It's incredibly complicated. That's a mess. Yeah. I know. There's a part of what I'm hearing, I think I'm hearing, and you tell me if I'm wrong, Kristen,

that not only are you wanting to get out of the mortgage, you're kind of tired of being on a leash to this whole mess. Yeah. You'd like to be able to stand back and watch it as more of a spectator than actually have it hanging over your head? Is that in there? I think there was a lot of pain of watching my dad, the way he handled his finances. I mean, as you say so often, it was his money, right? We're like immeasurably blessed because of how hard he worked. Yeah, you're not ungrateful.

I get that but the bottom line is right now but today today your home is tied into a convoluted emotional mess and um you kind of would like to be free of that mess and then if they send you something from the trust fine if they don't find you make 200 000 bucks a year you're going to be fine right right but right now if the trust goes sideways your house goes sideways right it feels like you've got that sort of damocles hanging over your head that at some point this this thing could go away right and how however far you are into a three million dollar house that balloon comes due at the end and it's not there it's not there right do you have kids yeah that's the hard part. I mean, we have two kids.

Our home is like we walked into it. What do you owe $3 million on it? Yeah, it's worth about, we bought it for $4.1. A realtor told me he would list it at like $6.2 now, so that's an amazing thing. If it's me, hey, Kristen, I grew up in Houston. If it's me, again, you're dealing with houston if it's me um again you're dealing in with zeros and commas that i've never dealt with i'd sell the house tomorrow and um there's some wonderful communities in houston where y'all could live super comfortably with cash and you'd be able

to pay cash for three million dollar house yeah there you go right that wouldn't be a bad thing yeah um struggling through here um but um i i you know you you've got to decide uh what you're going to do one of the things you said what's god telling you to do one of the things i use when i'm doing that is number one does the situation violate what i know what scripture is indicating and um the number two do i have a peace about it the peace that passes understanding and if i send if i if i'm troubled in my spirit that means it's time about a deal i'm getting ready to go into that means don't go into the deal right you know because we've all had that sense of like oh it all looks good and it's all logical but there's this thing inside called the holy spirit's going don't do it you know and i think the opposite

would be true here in other words if you're troubled in your spirit if you stay and i kind of keep hearing that in the way you're describing this it sounds like you need to be free permission you need free to walk away them in peace um even though it's – oh, by the way, it's not an indication that you're ungrateful. Right. It's just an indication you don't want to be a puppet on the end of this trust. You want the trust to be a puppet that you control. And right now, it's got a knife hanging over your head. So, yeah, I think if I'm in your shoes, I want to be free of that.

But I'm the guy that doesn't even want to live in a neighborhood where there's an HOA. I don't want anybody telling me what to be free of that. But I'm the guy that doesn't even want to live in a neighborhood where there's an HOA. I don't want anybody to tell me what to do. Okay. Clear right. And so clearly I am, you know, do not want any authority in my life except Jesus. So especially authority that has passed away a few years ago, authority that handled money that was different. It just feels good to be free. Yeah. And in this case, it's more of a vague, it's not even your dad's memory. It's this this thing that's happening over here and it's so big and freaking complicated and it could end up you know i don't know i don't think there's any rush it's a weird question you're right it sounds like a prank call but um i think it's real i think you really are there um i'm looking for peace and if you can't

get peace staying there and i just heard a lot of disturbance in the way you're describing this one of the questions i get all the time is which life insurance company should i use for my term life policy? A valid question since there are hundreds of companies out there with rates all over the place and riders and add-ons that are simply a waste of money. You need to get this done and make the right decision. That's why the only company I use and have recommended for over 20 years is Zander Insurance. Zander is a broker who shops the top term life companies for you and finds the best rates available from the only plans I recommend. They also save you time whether you want to work online, over the phone, or via text. Their team will cater to your needs and help you

make the right decision. This is an absolute necessity, and Zander has made the process easy and convenient. Call them at 800-356-4282 or visit zander.com for instant online quotes. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. The phone number here, 888-825-5225. Derek's in Bristol, Tennessee. Hey, Derek, how are you? Hey, Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help?

Yeah, I've just come across your books, your Money Makeover book, and your videos about a month ago. I was very intrigued. I'm 29 years old. I work at a prison in Little Town in Coburn, Virginia. I sold about $50,000 worth of sports cards last week. To kind of get in

the... I've been a little boy and just the market has tripled and quadrupled the last little bit. That's a little bit more than just intrigue, Derek. That means you're in, huh? It really helped me. Like I said, I've been watching things and I've obviously noticed I've did some bad stuff in the past by financing vehicles.

This is kind of where I'm at. I've only got four finances that I've got. I've got a truck payment, a van payment for my wife. I've got two kids, and I also run a lawn business part-time on the side. Okay. What's your question? Well, my question is, I got $50,000. I owe $29,000 on my truck. I owe $18,000 on the van. And I owe $12,000 on my mower. The fourth payment was my house of course uh but my question is do i pay off my truck and van and i'll still have three thousand dollars roughly left over my mower is

zero percent interest um like i said i bought that for my business i do on the side that i bring in about uh one probably like 1.5 thousand uh profit a. So it'll basically pay off itself. So I was just wondering, would it be best to just pay off my truck and van and then go to the next step of the baby step? Let's correct a couple things. Zero percent doesn't have anything to do with anything. The other thing is that mower's not going to pay itself off. You're going to keep cutting grass and pay it off.

Because if you quit cutting grass, that mower's sitting there by itself in the garage. It ain't going to pay off anything. Absolutely. So that's a misnomer that this thing is somehow on autopilot to pay itself off. So, no, I would list my debts smallest to largest, and I would pay them in that order like we teach in Baby Step 2. Which means I'm going to pay the mower off and mama's car off and a big chunk on your truck, and then I'm going to knock your truck out with the money you were going to use to knock the mower out.

You've still got a $12,000 balance on the truck, basically, in this scenario, and you need to knock that out ASAP, not in 20 months, but like in a few months. What is your total household income? I clear after what I put in my retirement, paying my health care insurance, stuff like that. I think I bring home, I think it's like $1,200 a month just with my prison job. Like I said, then my mowing, I bring home like almost $2,000. Does your wife work outside the home? No, she's down. Okay.

All right. Well, that's the thing. I'm going to list it in the smallest to largest. I'm going to pay them off in that order. And, of course, we teach you to temporarily stop retirement, and then how quick are you going to pay off the $12,000 remaining balance on your truck? That's your next goal. But I'm going to work it right straight down the line.

That's an expensive truck. Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait wait wait wait wait wait you need to sell this truck sell the truck yeah this truck you owe too much i mean listen when you own things with wheels and motors totaled up more than half your annual income which you do you've got a truck you can't afford even if it it's paid off. So, yeah, you need to move down in truck. That's what I would do. Here's the thing. It's very difficult to get ahead financially. You're a car guy. You're a motor guy.

You're a gear head. You don't think anything about buying a $12,000 lawnmower. And so, I mean, this is the guy you are. So, it's going gonna be difficult for you to get this your head around this because i'm the same way i grew up everything has got a motor on it i love it you know and uh i want one of every one of them i've never seen something that didn't go budden budden that i didn't like you know and so uh you know the problem is all those things go down in value and it's very difficult to build wealth when they're going down in value.

And, you know, I always thought I could out-earn that. I always thought, and you made some good money on those sports cars. That's good. I'm glad you're out of them, though. So, yeah, that's what I would do. I'd move down and truck. And I don't know if you'll do it or not, but that's what you should do. That's what you should do.

When I first heard this advice i didn't do it the first time i heard the advice my grandfather uh who taught me to pull nails out of a board and straighten them out and put them in a coffee can because he lived through the great depression i pulled up i was high rolling i thought i thought i was a ba and i roll up in a jaguar in my grandpa's driveway i'm making money doing real estate before i went broke in the real estate business and um he's like what's that that's a great granddad question it's like what do you mean what's that he goes that he's pointing the car and says it's a jaguar he goes what that cost and i mean this 1983 or 84 i said you know000, you know, which is like buying an $80,000 car now, right? And he said, you're kidding.

What's it do? I said, well, you know, it's a fine European vehicle. It was at that time made in, you know, in England. And, you know, this is a, you know, and he goes, really? And he said, and I said, and besides that, a car like this will hold its value. And he said, what do you mean? I said, it'll hold its value. And he goes, well, in 10 years, will it be worth? I said, well, maybe $20,000 or maybe $15,000.

He goes, I said, that's like an investment. He goes, my investments go up. Granddad's at the best, man. Just like pop, pop, pop, kept throat punching me over and over again. So finally, I'm just like, well, he doesn't understand. He doesn't know anything. And, of course, he had started from nothing and didn't ever really invest, just save money, but passed away as a millionaire with just money and CDs and coffee cans full of nails.

But he's like, that's an investment. He cocked that head sideways a little bit and goes, really? My investments go up. That question from a granddad of what's that is you're an idiot, what's wrong with you? All rolled into one kind granddaddy question. Passive aggressive southern grandfather. What's that? That's fantastic.

What is wrong with you? What's wrong with you, you idiot? What's that? Brittany's in Daytona Beach. Hi, Brittany. How are you? I'm doing great. How are you, Dave?

Better than I deserve. How can I help? So me and my husband got married in November 2019, and I read the Total Money Makeover, and we had our first budget meeting, and I convinced my new husband to let me take over our finances. Where did you read that in the total money makeover? Well, to let me take over looking and we have our budget meetings to decide together. Okay.

All right. That's what I want to pay. Okay. Okay. You got it. You got a vote in the deal. I got you. Okay. I do.

Yes. So we are working on paying off, doing the baby steps, and unfortunately we have a small shovel. We've only paid off about $8,000 this year, using everything that we have left at the end of the month. And we've talked about moving for years. We've been together seven years and have talked about moving to Tennessee or North Carolina the whole time.

Why? Because better paying jobs up there in Daytona Beach here. We have very, very low salaries, unfortunately. And we together only bring home about $40,000 annually. What do you all do? He works in medical records at the hospital and I am an office coordinator in oncology. Okay. All right.

So you're thinking about moving and what? We're thinking about moving to Tennessee. Okay. But our whole family is here, and I just don't know if I can wrap my head around leaving everybody. Okay. I don't think you need to move to Tennessee then. I don't think it, because I think you've made an assumption I don't agree with, that there are no good jobs in Daytona Beach, Florida. Right.

Or in Orlando, 25 minutes away. So, or whatever, that's probably not right, but it's close. Yeah. And so, I think you need to rethink your career choices and relook and start to believe in your area again. That area is not depressed to that point. So that's what I would do. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today in the Ramsey Solutions Lobby on the debt-free stage.

Nick and Elena are with us. Hey, guys. Hey, Dave. Where are you guys from? From Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. And made the trip to Tennessee to do a debt-free screen. Absolutely. In person. Well, welcome. Good to have you. How much did you pay off? Paid off $95,000. Awesomeness. And how long did this take? 19 months. Whoa. And your range of income during that time? Started at $81,000, then dropped a

little bit when you switched jobs, and then ended at about $100,000 with all of our extra jobs we picked up. Okay. So what do y'all do for a living? So I actually just, in between jobs right now, I was in accounting, and I'm moving into commercial real estate. Okay, cool. And then I'm a software support specialist, and I do marketing on the side. Very good. Very good. What kind of debt was the $95,000? So about $90,000 of it was student loans. And then we had a $5,000 family car loan and the rest was medical. Okay. So how did you clear that that fast? I mean, you must have been, if you cash flowed all this, did you have money in savings you threw at it or something?

A little bit at the beginning, but we were for eight months before we got married. We lived with our parents, and we just didn't do much. And then when we got married, we did even less. But yeah, so just scorched earth and really went after it. How long have you been married? A year on the 10th. We're down here celebrating our anniversary, my birthday this weekend. Yeah, being debt free. And being debt free.

Hey, celebrate. A palooza. Yeah, absolutely. Here we go. I like it. Very cool. So you did part of this as two singles and then part of it as a married couple. Yep.

And you literally just lived on nothing. Yeah. Yeah. Very slim. Only time we went out to eat was if we had gift cards or something like that but uh yeah yeah we picked up a lot of extra jobs you were working four jobs at one point babysitting at the church marketing on the side we were bodyguards i know we look tough at high school uh football and basketball games as well as um clean parking lots yeah so wow so and then we have on the side we have a little furniture restoration business Football and basketball games as well as clean parking lots.

Yeah. Wow. And then on the side, we have a little furniture restoration business. We made a little Instagram, so I had fun with it. Yeah. So what got you guys so fired up 19 months ago? Yeah. So my senior year of college, I took a financial planning class as part of my dual major at school. And the capstone to the class was to do

a three, five, and 10-year personal financial plan. And so I'm writing the intro to that and had some ideas and I'm bouncing them off of my dad. And he's like, hey, you should do a Dave Ramsey quote at the beginning of it. I was like, okay. So put the quote, if you live like no one else, later you can live and give like no one else. And I had the premise of you got to live, you can't have that YOLO lifestyle when you're young and you know kind of kept that theme throughout the paper so um paper did well got an a on it uh so uh that kind of got you know the fire underneath me and i started listening to the podcast non-stop and push it onto me and i was like no he sounds crazy oh yeah i was way too overbearing and then um my parents church when

i was going there um i saw the fpu class i'm like oh we're not getting engaged for a while and i was like might as well get plugged in here um take the class because we had some awesome uh family friends teaching it i was like might as well and then we fell in love with it there we're on fire ever since oh my gosh so financial Peace University podcast and a college paper get the whole thing started. I love it. And you got an A. Because personal finance class with tenured professors, you use my name, sometimes it goes

against you. Yeah, well I will say I did talk about using credit cards and stuff like that, but I quickly learned to stay away from that. You don't have to worry. I'm not going to get the grade change. It's okay. It's okay.

You got your grade. Well, congratulations, you guys. Thank you. What do you, now that you're Financial Peace University graduates, you've been listening a while, obviously, and did this incredible feat.

I mean, the depth of your sacrifice in these numbers is very real. You really had no life. You had to have friends making fun of you. Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Friends, family.

Yeah, people thought y'all were a pair of nuts. Oh, yeah. Like, y'all are crazy. Yeah, absolutely. So what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? You did it. Yeah, I would definitely say living on a budget and having that why. I'm a fan of Simon Sinek's book, Start With Why.

And obviously, you learn it in financial peace as well. It's just dream together, find out why you're doing what you want to do. And she definitely was the driver behind that why. I'm a giver. She's absolutely a giver. I love to give. I can't wait to wear Baby Step 7. That's what I'm passionate about.

Yeah. Get some tears in their eyes every time we watch that last lesson about living and giving like no one else because that's just what we're doing this for. It's very exciting. They're a power couple. I tell you what, man. How old are you guys?

24. I'll be 25 on Saturday. Sometimes somebody gets on the stage like this, and all I can think to do is just get under the table here. Just crawl under the table. Just hide. Just hide. Because the 24-year-old you was not this smart.

The 24-year-old me was super not this. The 34-year-old me was considering this. What you guys have done to set yourselves up, and when you hold your first baby, and you hold your first dog, you're going to have a debt-free dog for the first time. Exactly, yeah, yeah. Yeah, what y'all have done is incredible, guys. Well done, heroes. Thank you.

Very well done. Very, very proud of you. So who were your biggest cheerleaders? Yeah, so we have our friends Jake and Angelo. They're watching. Can't wait to get down here. They were our original FPU coordinators. And then I coordinate a class at our church now,

and so we have that team behind us and then friends and family. Awesome. Awesome. And your dad, who gave you the original idea to pull the quote. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. He's been behind us 100%. I love it. He's the guy who actually gave us the car loan for me, and I had the money,

but during the class I was like, I don't want to pay it. I don't want to pay it off. And then we were sitting on the couch, and Nick's like, do you want me to tell you what Dave's going to tell you on Thursday, or do you want to just, I'll let you do it. And I was like, okay, I'm going to do it. And the next day I wrote his dad the check to pay off the rest of the car because I had the money.

And that was just the best feeling. I love it. Little wins like that. Yeah, that's a big deal. Well done. That's so cool, man. Good job, good job. Well, we got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires.

We want that to be the next chapter in your story, and there's no question that's where you two are headed. Very well done, guys. that to be the next chapter in your story, and there's no question that's where you two are headed. Very well done, guys. Way to go, heroes. All right, Nick and Elena, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, $95,000 paid off at 24 years old, one-year anniversary. Man, and happy birthday. Did it in 19 months, making $81,000 to $100,000.

Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. We're debt-free! Woo-hoo! I love it! That is absolutely amazing. Very, very well done, you guys.

Very well done. Dave at at this point after my first year marriage i don't think me and my wife could stand this close to each other much less like on a stage it would have been a yeah we've had a gap between us man i don't know we were even speaking much less able to come together like this and you had a great plan and definitely in sync without a doubt and that's that is an indicator of where they're going as much as where they've come from i love it it's just it's very very very well done uh i mean and folks out there all of our data points tell us that not only getting out of debt but building a level of wealth and being in a position to be outrageously

generous like she was talking about. There is this tremendously huge statistical correlation between the couple working together and being unified like that and hitting these financial milestones. It's all I almost never. I won't say never, but almost never hear a story of someone who became a millionaire, someone who paid off $100,000 or $200,000 worth of debt, and they drug their spouse the whole way. Yeah. Or they were pulling in two different directions the whole way, whatever. I just don't find that. And so for some of you spouses that are kind of on the bubble, you know, you need to be unified.

Even if you're unified, hate me, that's okay. But you need to be unified on what you're doing because you're not going to get there. But if you are unified, very few things can stop you. No, nothing's stopping these two. It's awesome. Nothing's stopping these two. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you. Dr. John Deloney, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today here on the Dave Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee, meaning if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they'll remake your window blinds for free. You'll get free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos they run every month, you'll save even more. The promo the magic word ramsey promo code ramsey john our question today's question comes from michelle in ohio she visits davramsey.com to ask can you go over the differences between enabling somebody and helping somebody. That's a good, short, insightful question there. What do you think, Dave?

Well, I think you have the Ph.D. in counseling, but I've got an opinion, of course. I've got an opinion about everything. I do, too. I think enabling somebody is for you and helping them is for them. Enabling somebody, paying somebody's rent makes you feel good versus i'm trying to help somebody out of a spot that's going to actually benefit them in the long run that's how that's just off top of my head what do you think i think most enablers would think would have a hard time realizing they're doing it for themselves right so um you know you're doing it for you well i'm not doing

this for me i'm doing it to help him and um so you know the thing i always think about when enabling is the classic giving a drunk a drink are you participating in their misbehavior causing it you look at it on the back end causing it to continue are you are you are you like joining up for crazy and uh if you're participating in their misbehavior then you're a helicopter mom coming in the kids misbehaving and you're bailing them you know you're saying well the teacher's wrong you know versus my house where i grew up the teacher was never wrong even when they were wrong never right even if the teacher was never wrong even when they were wrong never right even if the teacher was a toxic abuser they were on my parents team you know it was like um so you know there's

just no chance that you could have a helicopter parent coming out of my house so uh which is good i mean but versus and so when you're enabling you really are not helping and if you'll stop and realize that then it'll help you not be an enabler. Right. And when I have been in a situation, and I'll tell you the other thing is, there's something about enabling. I think it's harder to help and requires more effort, emotional energy, and time than it does to enable.

More intentionality. Yeah. It's kind of like the guy standing on the side of the road, you know, we'll work for food. Okay? It's hard to put the guy in a car and take him and have him cut grass and then pay him. Right. Than it is just give him some money.

Right. And if you just give him some money, you're probably really, you know, participating in something that is not helpful. Whereas if you take him out and give him some money, you're probably really, you know, participating in something that is not helpful. Whereas if you take him out and teach him a skill. Yeah. Or if he really just needs food, take him over to the restaurant and buy him a plate of food. Right. And, of course, you know, we all know the story.

Sometimes you find out that wasn't what they were after. Anyway, they're just running that corner. That's their corner. But aside from that, are you really helping? And it's almost a cheap, you're cheap out when you're enabling it's easier it's quicker i'll just throw some money at it right i'll just out of mind yeah i'll just throw some whatever at it so if you are participating in things that at the end of the story have caused them harm which you kind of got to pan back and do that and it you know you sit down with somebody

they come to you and they say you know i need i need i need money for rent why um and you dig into it you realize i got a drug problem so when you pay the rent basically you bought the drugs right so you've got it's harder to take that person by the hand lead them into a 12-step group you know go pay for their counseling right or their coaching or whatever they need, pay for the rehab. It's harder to do that. And I'm assuming all things are equal with the money, you know. But it just takes more effort. And, you know, I found this also to be true about giving, just your generosity.

It takes more effort to do giving right. That's right. That's going to actually have a demonstrable effect, help people in the long term, and not just be a sieve, right? Yeah. So none of that's a real good clinical definition or not even a clear definition, but it's just observation. Yeah, and I think you and I are coming at it just one's on the front, one's on the back. It's like, what's this money? What's this opportunity? What's this thing you're giving somebody?

What's the fruit going to be after you plant the tree? And I like to look up front. If somebody asks me for money. Okay, let me give you an example. How does this play into your definition? Okay. My friend who mishandles money, that's their only sin right they're just disorganized impulsive immature right and they call up and go you know i need two hundred dollars i said no you know if i say yeah here's two hundred dollars

right i'm an enabler there you go okay if i don't and i say listen i'll give you 200 but only if you're enrolled in financial peace university only after i look at your budget with you and only after you agree to stop these behaviors that are causing you to be broke in the first place right uh one's an enabler one's a helper same amount of money uh and i don't know how to describe the difference in those two. And if I just gave him the $200, how's that about me? Because you can. It's dismissive.

It gets you out of it. You don't have to have the hard conversation of saying, no, I don't want to do that. It's emotionally lazy. Right. Or it feels good that somebody comes to me because I've taken care of my business. The way you describe that, I think you've got to be careful because it can be judgmental, which is if somebody asks you for $200, I'm going to read into why you need it, what you haven't done, and what you're probably going to do with it versus,

hey, man, I'll just help you out. And sometimes I will go too far down the road in saying, oh, you don't have $200 because of this and because of this, because of this. Sometimes you just need $200. But I think what you mentioned coming up front is I'm going to sit down have a hard conversation with you before i just give money to you yeah i don't want just to drive by that's exactly right and that all comes back to intentionality and that's that is real love right is actually caring enough about them to not not necessarily be judgmental and confront every issue but just start asking a bunch of

questions why are you here and then you're starting to ascertain am i really helping or am i funding crazy that's exactly right because with enabling you're almost always funding some kind of crazy some kind of dysfunction some kind of misbehavior some kind of toxic uh the kid misbehaving the helicopter mom is you're funding it right then and sometimes people get in a bind and they just need some help yeah and i don't mind doing that that's exactly right but that i think you you you i mean we're saying it over and over but man just be intentional and get involved yeah ask that extra question hey what what happened you doing okay is there a bigger thing i can be supportive of what else what else is going on in your world that uh theyear-old that lives in his mother's basement

and games all day long and won't get a job. Right. Mom is an enabler. An absolute enabler. And so because she's participating in allowing him to not become who God designed him to be. And how that helps her is she gets to keep her baby around. She gets to not have a hard conversation.

She gets to not do the hard parent job of constructing boundaries and holding them up, holding them firm, right? And so this whole thing just protects her fantasy world, and she just keeps perpetuating it down the street. I have never thought about it until today in this way, that enabling is emotionally lazy. Or character lazy. It's just not investment in other people.

You're not willing to do the stuff that's good for them and so you just throw something. You just allow it. Or even ask that next question and the next question. How are you? It's just...

I'd say it's emotionally lazy. It's character lazy. It's spiritually lazy. It just treats a person as a transaction instead of a relationship. It's, I'd say it's emotionally lazy. It's character lazy. It's spiritually lazy. It just treats a person as a transaction instead of a relationship. Yeah. And it's not really loving. No, absolutely not.

At the end of the day. It's just because you didn't love them enough to help them. To truly get into what's going on in your heart, yeah. A 28-year-old lives in your basement, and they have absolutely no ambition, and you still make their clothes. Failure to launch movie, you know, that kind of stuff. You still wash their clothes. You still cook their meals. They don't pay anything.

They basically are operating emotionally at a 14-year-old level, and they're a full-time gamer down there. You know, I mean, it's just that's, you know, what you have done is you have stunted the emotional growth of your kid. Right. By allowing this. And so my friends know when they call me for help there's i'm gonna be the first in line yeah but they also know they're gonna get a whole bunch of questions how are you you're doing okay what's going on your kid's okay why

are we here yeah how are we not gonna be here again i love you yeah yeah yeah if if i'm gonna help you i don't want you to have to be here again, because otherwise I was an enabler. There you go. Wow. That's a good question. I like that. This is The Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. On your smart speaker, you can add our skill by saying, Alexa, open the Ramsey Network skill. From there, you can listen to all our shows.

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