The Ramsey Show - App - The Difference Between Hoping and Planning (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 6, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Chris Hogan. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today on the air. Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Well, Chris, about all I can think of to say is, hey, 2020, in case I didn't already think you sucked, you continue to suck.

I just heard a second ago that my friend charlie daniels passed away oh 83 years old and uh apparently had a um a stroke of some kind uh incredible music icon incredible man of faith incredible patriot and um he and hazel are just absolutely wonderful wonderful wonderful people. They're wonderful members of our community here in Nashville and are well thought of among everyone in the country music business. Do anything for anyone. Oh, yeah.

Big heart, generous, and kind, and very opinionated, and he's always right on his opinions because me and him agreed on all that, I can just tell you. And if you don't, I'll miss him. Yeah, no, he's a humble man, extremely talented, and a proud American. But as you said, Dave, an incredible music icon and definitely will be missed. If you don't like the way I'm living, just leave this whole country boy alone. Leave him alone. And there's a whole bunch of us come from that cloth.

We're cut from that. You can do whatever you want, but leave me alone. Yeah. And we get real tired of everybody telling us what to do that's got these opinions about stuff. And I'm getting sick and tired of the Constitution being shredded among whatever issue you people want to decide that you're on your high horse and do, and he was a guy that stood up against that. So good people, good people will be greatly, greatly missed, that big tall hat.

So our thoughts and our prayers go to their family, and of course we'll be reaching out to them when we get off the air today but um pretty incredible pretty incredible loss for country music community and for america in general open phones at 888-825-5225 georgia starts off this hour julia is calling hi julia how are you hi good afternoon it is an absolute pleasure to speak with both of you. You too. How can we help? Forgive me, I'm a little bit nervous. But the reason I'm calling is because I've been listening to you for a while. I got your Financial Peace University. And I've been watching those videos.

And actually, I've watched them twice now to see if I've missed anything the first time around. And I've been taking advantage of all that I'll get right to the point my husband and I are on baby step two we have two debts that we're working on one of them being some child support that is in arrears now the state has ordered that they're in arrears this was done about ten years ago. But to be honest, he doesn't actually owe them. He is not interested in fighting them. And any time I bring it up to see about paying, you know, to fight them, he gets very angry. He gets very upset.

He kind of almost turns on me, and I just let it go. We continue to pay as we're supposed to as the state has ordered but i'm wondering am i missing something is there sort of man code or something that no i feel like i've stepped somewhere that i just shouldn't be i don't have any idea i mean you might be there might be something to the story you don't know and i don't know but no it's not man code i mean if it's child support and he doesn't owe it you fight it and you uh push back against it and you win and you don't pay it if he does owe it you pay it it's really not much in between uh but hanging around and paying something

you don't know and being mad about it for decades is not i don't get that that's not man code and i don't need it and it and it was in the, it would actually come first, the first thing to pay off. But in my heart, I feel like if I pay that off first or if I start throwing chunks of money at it, and then we do, all of a sudden he wakes up one day and says, well, hey, no, let's go ahead and fight it. Well, they're going to look at us throwing chunks of money at it and say, well, you know, it's going to be a lot. How much is it? What's the outstanding balance? $15,000.

Okay. And Julia, how long have you and your husband been married? It's actually 13 years today. Okay. All right. So you guys have been married 13 years. You know what's jumping out at me, Julia? The singular pronouns you keep saying.

You say I and I if I throw money at it. And so you guys aren't working together on your money, are you? No, we're not. Yeah. That's a very sensitive topic. The whole money situation is very sensitive, and he just tells me to take care of all of it. He makes the majority of the money, and I take care of it. Yeah, that's unfair to you.

I manage it. Yeah, that's unfair to you. I manage it. Yeah, that's unfair to you. And see, that's the first caveat. Not being aligned in it and being able to communicate about it. He's shutting down altogether with money. And now here you're standing and looking at this and this is a battle that he needs to lead

on this child support thing but you all jointly together are doing this. This is something that impacts your future. Or decide, I don't want to fight it, I'm just going to pay it. Right. And then you chunk money at it and don't worry about it. But I don't want to see. The problem is you don't know what to do because you're afraid if you pay extra on it,

he's going to wake up one day. Well, he needs to be part of the discussion so he doesn't wake up one day. And so, yeah, this is, I mean, what I would do on this is I think the two of you probably ought to sit down and talk to somebody like a good marriage counselor. I'm not saying you're about to get divorced, but the engine's running rough and it needs a tune-up. And, you know, I mean, Sharon and I spent some time with a marriage counselor and it saved our lives. Kept her from killing me. Yeah. counselor and it saved our lives kept her from killing me well we've definitely been down some rocky roads and he you know he used to be an alcoholic he quit all that he's been dry for over two years now so we've definitely hit some rocky roads and

i think it's wonderful news and i just i feel like you know what here's the thing did he did he do 12 step no? No, sir. He just quit cold turkey. He just quit. Okay. It's an act of his will. I gave him an ultimatum. Okay.

All right. Well, I think the way maybe this sounds, I don't know. I'm just a guy. But it's not guy code to answer your question earlier. But maybe the way it sounds is I'm so proud of you for being dry for two years. And the completion of your healing in these areas is for you and I to be on the same page with money. And I'm tired of carrying the weight of the household on my back. And I need you to man up. Okay.

And I need you to step up beside me and say, I want you to walk with me, be my man. I don't want you to carry it all. I'm not going to dump the bills on your side of the desk. We're going to do this together. But I'm tired of doing all of this by myself. And then that leads into the conversation on the other. But really, the child support thing is a symptom of what you called out, Chris, I'm not working together. Yeah.

And here's the deal. He's got, Chris, I'm not working together. Yeah. And here's the deal. He's got, Dave, old emotions attached to that. Yep. Obviously to a damaged relationship. Well, it pisses him off every time it comes up. Absolutely. But it's not Julia's fault. Right.

And she's part of the solution. I agree. Counseling's the way to go. Yeah. Get some coaching and just how to talk to each other. But it can start with, we've come a long way. Let's finish this journey. Yes.

Because I'm tired of doing this by myself. That's good. My wife says, I'm tired of carrying out the trash. It's your turn. She says stuff like that. She is feisty. Yeah, she is. She is.

That's a hillbilly woman. You take out the trash? You dadgum right I did. I'm scared of her. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. She's a, that's a hillbilly woman. You take out the trash? You dadgum right I did. I'm scared of her. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. It continues to amaze me how ID thieves keep expanding their ways to steal from us. Not only do they commit crimes related to financial fraud, medical ID theft, IRS scams, and social security fraud, but now we have to deal with the home title fraud.

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Hi, Mary Jane. How are you? Good. How are you? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Okay, so we have a lot of credit card debt because we adopted two children with medical needs. And over time, we have not been able to keep up. And we did not know that we could negotiate with hospitals. So, unfortunately, we've put everything on credit cards and now we're up to $80,000 in medical debt and we just don't know what to do. And so one option that has come up

was a cash refinance on our home since we have equity in our home. And we have been talking to a lender about that, where we could pull out about $70,000 and use that to pay off all of the credit cards, all of high interest. And we felt like that was a really good idea to kind of jump start up because we have the money now to keep up with payments as they're coming in, whereas before we didn't. And we do anticipate some more surgery. But at the same time, I just recently started listening to you, and I guess I'm nervous that that may not be the best decision. What is your household income? My husband makes $136,000. And then I am self-employed and make clear $20,000.

Okay. So you have $156,000. How many children? Two children. Okay. All right. What's the nature of their medical issues? So my one daughter, both adopted from China, my one daughter had a heart condition on her file.

And then when she came home, she ended up having, she needed open heart surgery. She had scoliosis. She has a brain abnormality, KRE malformation, endless dental. That was really the majority of our debt was dental surgeries. Her teeth just kind of rot from the inside out. She just had a palate surgery two weeks ago. So she's 10, and she's been under about 25 times under anesthesia. Bless her little heart.

She's such a warrior, though. You look at her, you never know. Oh, yeah. Kids that go through that develop a strong constitution. Yeah. Well, here's the thing, okay? I think I heard you say this, but let me make sure I heard you say it and make sure you heard you say it.

If you borrow on your home to pay off this stuff and you don't stop this pattern, you lose your home next time. Right? Because the debt is not going away. You're just moving it. Correct. Yeah. And if the surgeries keep being more than your income,

you're not going to be able to make it, are you? You have to get to where your medical bills are under your income and that you manage those going forward with insurance and whatever else, or you're not going to make it financially. It's going to bankrupt you. Does that make sense? Yes. It doesn't say that the children aren't valid or that the needs aren't valid. I think they very much are. I'm in fear for your future because you didn't wake up from your financial denial until $80,000. So are you really awake now? Yeah.

We're just tired. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm not picking on you. I'm not picking on you. It's so heavy. I'm not picking on you. I'm concerned for you. Okay? I just, because, I mean, I don't want you, you can't go back here again, right? Right.

Yeah. Mary Jane, do you all have health insurance? Yes, we do. It's an 80-20, but it's just 20%. This kid's had a million dollars worth of stuff. Yeah. And the reality is, no, I can't imagine the pressure. And I've got a youngest son that's had 14 to 16 surgeries.

So I know the heart pressure on you. But on the financial side, what you don't want to do is take unsecured debt, which is credit card debt, and then secure it with your credit card debt, and then secure it with your largest monetary asset, and that's your home. Yeah, so I agree. What I would do in your situation is, if I'm in your shoes, I would want to know that I was 1,000% sure I'm doing what it takes so that this never grows back again and then one way of doing that insurance to myself if i'm in your shoes is i'm going to get

on the debt snowball and i'm going to pay this like it was credit card debt for something stupid this was credit card debt for something noble but we're going to treat it like you just wasted the money or something and i'm going to roll up my sleeves, and you work your extra job. Your husband picks up OT as much as he can, and we work the surgeries that are in front of us, and we work the stuff behind us, and it's 100% credit card debt. There's no medical right now, right? I have outstanding, probably 3,000 collectors, you know, medical.

Yeah, you settle that. Yeah, you settle that and get it in writing. And then you start working. Let's work the debt snowball on this. Because if you were in a quote-unquote more typical situation, in air quotes, okay, you're not. But if you were and you're making $15 000 and you had 80 000 we would say be debt-free in two years 40 000 a year okay and i actually think you probably can do that even in your extreme situation and if i'm in your shoes i would rather do that than put my house at risk

and what chris is saying take the unsecured and move it to secure dave i agree with you 100 so mary jane let us be clear you're not doing a consolidation loan that that feels like it's something that'll be quick uh you all are looking at it but here's the here's the craziness dave i'll never forget you inside of financial peace calling consolidations loan consolidation because the math the quick math you look at it and you think oh i'm paying less the problem is is the period of indebtedness they extend it for 15 years and so don't go that route uh you guys attack this thing the death snowball if it were the only way that you guys could make it and take care of the babies yeah you move it that's to avoid a bankruptcy or a foreclosure and you take care of the babies, yeah, you move it. That's to avoid a bankruptcy or a foreclosure, and you take care of your babies.

Yeah, I'd do that. But I kind of think you're making $156,000, $40,000 out of that. That's $116,000 left over to live on and do current surgery issues and still attack at the rate of about $3,000 to $4,000 a month. I think that's doable here. And, Dave, she's self-employed, so she has no ceiling on what she can make yeah but she's she's got a logistical pinch on time she's taking care of some sick babies but uh some babies with some issues they can do this yeah it's it's um it's doable and i'm telling you like you didn't know i mean you've taken care of

your son has had all kinds of issues and you have, it's been a financial strain and a time strain and a heartbreak, and it takes your breath away one minute, and the next minute brings you the greatest joy on the planet. It is, and Barry Jane, I will tell you this, kind of like the last caller, it's going to be really important that you and your husband stay connected during this battle. That can fracture and hurt things inside of you that you don't know is hurt. And so you guys going to see a counselor or a therapist and talking it out so you understand what each other are feeling so you can support each other, it's absolutely crucial that you do this. This money thing you can fix.

The relationship thing, I want you guys to hold on to each other. That's important. Yeah, you got two big fights both at the same time and that rip at relationships, and that's the money fight and the health fight. Yeah. So you guys are incredible people, and, you know, just our admiration to you, hats off to you for what you're doing. But I would avoid the house and only do that as an absolute last resort rather than as a correct, as the first place I go to fix it. It than as the first place I go to fix it.

It's the last place I go to fix it. And I really think you can make it. Hold on. I'll tell you what. I'm going to have Madison sign you guys up for a year in Ramsey Plus, and we'll get you through Financial Peace University, get you on the every-dollar budget, and sync it up with your bank, and get everything going, and get everything going for you so you can go win.

Hey, thank you for calling in open phones this hour chris hogan is my co-host ramsey personality right here on the dave ramsey show Thank you. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debtbt Free Stage, Jamie and Lindsey are with us. Hey guys, how are you? Good. Welcome, welcome. Good to have you. Where do you guys live? Griffin, Georgia. Griffin, Georgia. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you.

And how much debt have you paid off? $168,000. All right. And how long did this take? 23 months. Good for you. And. And how long did this take? 23 months. Good for you. And your range of income during this time? $165,000 to about $220,000. Whoa, what do you all do for a living?

Lindsay. I'm the director of radiology for a family practice. I'm director of business development for a supply company. Okay. Way to go, guys. Well done. So what kind of debt was the $168,000? For a supply company. Okay. Way to go, guys. Well done. So what kind of debt was the $168,000?

Our mortgage. Yeah. You paid off your house? Oh. I'm looking at weird people. I love it. Congratulations, you guys. Well done.

Thank you. How old are you two? I'm 34 and Lindsey's 42. And you have a paid-for house. I 31 and you are officially needing another house yeah the dog house yeah jamie don't poke the bear don't mess with her oh well what got all this started 23 months ago? So we bought a new house, and we actually, I joked with Lindsay last night when we were talking about this, that we've probably paid off $500,000 over the last seven years from three different houses. So we did this plan with our first house in 2013, 2014, and sold it, moved to the next house,

and rolled the equity and did it again, went crazy, gazelle intense for about a year and a half. And then we had our daughter. And so we put the brakes on, waited for another year. And Lindsay realized that she needed to be closer to my parents who watch our daughter every day. And so she found a house across the street from them, we jumped here we go again so that was when we turned it really really turned it back on and every time then you go after it and knock it out that's right so you're gonna are you gonna do it again or are you about done with this so we won't get a mortgage no mortgage from here on out so we're we're saving not for a new a new house or anything, but just for whatever comes, land or a boat, I think is probably.

Yes. That's the dream. That's the why. There we go. That's good. That's good stuff. Well, congratulations, you guys. Thanks.

So what got you on this path? Jamie's always been on this path. He got me on the path of just following all of your books and your plans. And so really for us, we just want financial independence and to be able to have a good life for our kids. We have a three-year-old daughter and another daughter due next month. So that's the biggest thing for us is just having financial independence. Wonderful.

That's a big deal. Who were you all's biggest cheerleaders throughout all this? Each other. Was it really? Definitely. Our life group, we just did FPU or Ramsey Plus back in October for the sixth time. And our life group went through it. So we had three couples.

And that really, honestly, about $115,000 of the mortgage was knocked out in the last six or seven months. Wow. You just got leaned in on it. Yeah. And our parents have been big supporters as well. Yeah. You move across the street from them, they'll support you.

That's right. They'll support this idea. And they paid their house off too. All right. They beat us by a couple months. Oh, wow. So you guys did this as a family. We did. You really did. Go, Mom and So you guys did this as a family. We did.

You really did. Go, Mom and Dad. I love it. Put the hurt on them. That's awesome, you guys. Congratulations. So who's the saver and who's the spender between the two of you? So I am the saver.

You're the saver. I read. It's funny. I took a post-Air Force trip back in 2010 with a friend of mine, Benjamin LaFoon, and he told me about the Dave Ramsey plan, and I'd been saving my whole life. I was the 9-year-old that my dad would steal money out of my piggy bank to buy stuff at the vending machine at work, and I'll pay you back. Here's pennies.

I know the difference between a penny and a quarter. And so that was always kind of a joke. So when I read your book, I read it in 24 hours, and I thought, oh, no, I was born 20 years later. He gets me. That's my book to write. You know, so anyways, yeah, when we met, we just. I'm the spender, but when we met, I thought I was doing really well.

I was a senior in college, and I didn't have any student loan debt. I had $400 in the bank. I was doing great. And I met Jamie, and he had an IRA and a Roth. You know, I'm like, who is this guy? What is that? What is this? I thought I was doing good.

But, yes, I'm the spender. She's a super nerd, though. Yes. Okay. I'm the ultra free spirit. That didn't play well when we went through FPU together probably five years ago. And we did our first budget the month before starting FPU and hearing the, hey, free spirit, stay quiet, nerd, kind of those things. So I'm the saver, free spirit for sure.

And so when Lindsey did the budget, she went in spreadsheet crazy. I loved it. I had a line item for everything. I love it. Everything crazy. I loved it. I had a line item for everything. I love it. Everything. So I saw it, and after I stopped gagging, looking at the spreadsheet, she spent hours that day on it, and I said, you know, this is crazy. We don't need this.

We need income, outgo, and what's left over. And then we'll work together to figure out what's left over and what we do. He popped my balloon. Oh, the biggest. It was so offensive, and I ruined it, and it was a special moment, and we had wine on the table, and she snatched the computer back and somehow magically typed in a bunch of characters and gave me back a pie chart.

Three sections, income, outgo, and what's left over. And I was like, oh, my gosh, how did you do that? You're a genius. So this is what I wanted. This is all I need. So right then, we started FPU the next month and went through that first episode. Turns out she was right.

That's right. I messed up. She was right all along. That's right. I love it. Good for you guys. I'm so proud of you. Well, thank you how's

it feel have a paid for house at your age it was awesome yeah i don't i don't think it sunk in yet yeah yeah it happened back in april beginning april yeah in the middle of covet huh that's right so we thought we would pay it off and drive straight up here and do this big debt-free scream and and i'd met you know some of your team members and uh kent and we're doing uh ramsey plus at our church yeah so uh we're doing the church wide okay and so the name of our church is momentum christian church wow yeah so once i went through fpu the first time i said i want to lead this so let's let's get this going and more people need to hear about this in our church and so led you know five or six more classes and then attended the last one, and we're leading the leaders now.

So we're doing that on Zoom, which I can't stand, but it's great to get that going. But when I first looked it up six years ago, it was called Momentum. So I ran into the pastor and said, hey, we need this. It matches our name. That's right. God's telling us to do it. So then it was, you know, kind of changed names.

But, yeah, we'll do that in the fall. So late August, early September kind of time frame. Way to go, you guys. Very, very, very well done. All right. So your daughter's name is what? Livvy. Livvy.

Livvy going to help us with our debt-free scream? She is. All right. Come here. It's a little bit crazy, Livvy. You ready to be crazy? All right, here we go. $168,000 paid off in 23 months, making $165,000 to $220,000.

They're weird. Their house is paid for and everything. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream. 3, 2, 1. We're debt-free! Yay!

Yay! Well done, you guys. That was fantastic. Well done. That's a power couple right there. It really is, Dave. They got dialed in on every detail. Every detail, and not only that, but then with the mom and dad to get on board and pay off their home. I mean, that's generational change.

Yeah. It really is. The whole family gets involved. Absolutely. It's a complete change of direction on everything. So well done. So very well done. And at that age, when you can pay off everything by the time you're 30 or so, how wealthy they're going to be.

Oh. I mean, if they had half this income. That's right. Absolutely. In their early 30s. And, you know, for you all out there listening, you go, man, oh, man, I want that to be me one day. I'm going to tell you, you can do it. You just got to get started and get serious.

And you got to avoid stupid. It's out there lurking. You got to make better decisions for yourself. It's out there lurking. You've got to make better decisions for yourself. Yeah. Stupid is lurking. It is out there. And it looks nice, Dave.

Behind every bush. Oh. Behind every aisle in the store. It's there. It's right around the corner. Stupid's there. Stupid. This is the Dave Ramsey show. Our question of the day from Blinds.com.

They have a 100% satisfaction guarantee. That means even if you mismeasure, you pick the wrong color, they will remake your blinds for free. Can't beat that. That's how you screw up and they fix it anyway. Guarantee. That's right. Free samples, free shipping, and with the new promos every month,

you save even more. Use the promo code Ramsey. Chris, our question. Yes, this comes from Kylie in Kentucky. She goes, my company offers a 401k plan, and I believe a small contribution. Do I put the full 15% into my 401k or only up to what they match? If it's the second part, what do I do with the difference? For example, if they only match up to 2%, do I contribute 2% and what do I do with other 13%?

Kylie, this is a great question. And here's what you want to do. You want to contribute up to the match in your 401k, then go over to the Roth IRA to do the remainder. If that doesn't get you to 15%, then go back to your 401k for what's remaining. That is if you don't have a Roth option in your 401k. That is correct. You've got a Roth option in your 401k, and you've got great selectable. The mutual funds you can select from are really strong. You could just do it all right there.

Right there. That's right. Either one's fine. But our rule of thumb is match beats Roth beats traditional. Rock, paper, scissors. Rock, paper, scissors. Sort of. But it just goes one way.

But the, yeah, so always take the match, then do all the Roth, and then do traditional until you get to 15% of your household income going to retirement. She's got that part dialed in because she was using the 15% number to baseline everything on her baby step four. Absolutely. She's listening. And listen, everyone out there, the financial world has all kinds of terms. If you go to my website, ChrisHogan360.com, I've got a free investing guide that will break it down and explain.

It talks about how the way Dave teaches to invest and how you can make sure your future isn't a dream, that you can make it become a reality. If you mess up on a home purchase, it is not a small thing. There are no homes with small prices compared to other things that we do in our lives. And when you screw this up, it's stupid with zeros. So you want to get someone in your corner that really knows what they're doing and never again buy a house without the facts. Our team has created a one-stop shop for everything homebuyers need to know. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash homebuying.

It's free. Get the answers you need to make the decisions on that. And, again, you can check out for these financial terms that Chris mentioned at ChrisHogan360.com. Again, free. Lots and lots and lots of content on all of our sites that's there to just simply answer your question and help you. And I think we were doing an inventory of our website the other day. I think there's 4,200 pages on our website of articles. Wow.

And so, you know, there's stuff there is what it amounts to. And whether it's your site or Rachel Cruz's site or whoever, certainly the DaveRamsey.com, there is a lot of stuff that we've poured in over the years, and that library has just gotten really thick. That's what it amounts to. All right, Ann is with us in Virginia. Hi, Ann. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi.

Thank you both for answering my question. I'll make it quick. Hi. Thank you both for answering my question. I'll make it quick. Sure. We're in Baby Step 2, and we're on the last two debts. Great. One is a home equity line of credit, and the other is the iceberg Fed loan. The reason I'm calling is when I look at FedLoan, we never consolidated. So we have like all these little loans that are less than the home equity line. So my question is, do I still, which is $10,300,

and then when you add up all of them, it's a big FedLoan. Do you recommend still going from least to most, no matter what the big pile is, or should I look at the individual loans? Now, we don't go by category, but we go by individual loans on your debt snowball. Okay. Because I just want you to see the yaha moment, the woo-hoo, you know, every so often when you knock one of those puppies out. Yep. So how much is your home equity loan?

$10,000. Oh, so the whole thing's not but $20,000, the whole pile. No, no, no, no, no. The home equity loan is $10,000, but the Fed loan altogether, all those little loans, is $42,000. Oh, okay. So $50,000 gets you out. What's your household income? $100,000.

Okay. So when are you going to be out? I hope. Well, it won't be by the end of this year. It won't be by the end of this year. 12, 14 months? I hope. Well, it won't be by the end of this year. It won't be by the end of this year. 12, 14 months? I hope so. That would be $50,000 out of $100,000, right?

Yeah. And did you feel that nudge from Dave? I heard him. You heard that? And see, that's the difference. And I heard your brain clicking. See, that's the difference between hoping and planning. See, when you start planning, baby, you start planning.

It gets real, and you get serious. So let's ask one more time. When are you going to do this thing? In a year. We had a girl. That's good. You can do it. I mean, if you lay it out, lay out the math with your husband and just sit down. And you said we, right?

There's two of you. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's one more total. Yeah, lay it out. And then if it comes out 13 or 14 months, it's okay. It's not a bad thing. But it's just really good to have that laid out real clear, and then you kind of go, hey, I'm ahead of schedule,

or hey, I'm a little behind schedule. I've got to turn something up. That's what I need to be ahead of schedule. Yeah. I want to be ahead of schedule. Yeah, but you've got to have a schedule in order to do that. Right. That's the thing.

Okay, I just didn't know, because FedLoan, I hate it. I understand. I hate them all, too. Yeah, so go ahead and knock out the little ones. Are any of your $40,000 of student loans, are any single loans greater than $10,000? No. Okay, so the home equity loan will be last, and the debt snowball then, and you're just going to run the table on these little ones.

And, Dave, here's one of the things she said. And she said, she didn't have a plan. A schedule. And a schedule, but she also needs to be able to track and to also not do it alone. And that's exactly what we have available for people in Ramsey Plus. You're going to have access to tools to be able to see exactly where you are in the debt snowball, but you also have people in your corner cheering you on. And I think, you know, that to me is going to be the absolute game changer for that program.

Yeah. You know, you've got to have people. What we found years ago when we first started teaching Financial Peace University, I taught it with an overhead projector and a bad suit. And we figured out real quick that personal finance is 80 behavior and the people sitting in small groups after i finished teaching and um encouraging each other when they were scared yeah and busting each other when they were being a little bit prideful uh that accountability like that broke through more than my teaching did it's kind of distressing because i like to think

of myself as a good teacher but but the groups were much more magical in changing people's lives than i wasn't standing up there with an overhead projector and it's still true today i mean you and i are world-class communicators but we're not as good as people sitting kneecap to kneecap looking you in the eye and saying you can do this i. I know you're scared, but I think you can do this. Yep. No, you're absolutely right. Or don't go do that. Stupid's lurking around that corner.

Yep. You know, and that's powerful in anything. To have a group of people around you lifting you up and keeping you between the guardrails is just, man, anything you want to do. No, it really does. And I'm going to tell you, Dave, I figured out fear and worry want you to be isolated. And hope wants you to be connected. And community, I tell you, it just, when you let down that guard and you go, here's where I am and here's where I want to be.

Now, how do I get there? Who do I need in my life? What do I need in my life? And what's the direction I get there? Who do I need in my life? What do I need in my life? And what's the direction I'm going? And when you would get past that pride moment and you reach out and you grab onto something that can get you there, you'll start to make changes in your life. Well, and sometimes you need to turn loose of some stuff and you got to have people loving you enough to help you do that. That's right. That's right. Sometimes turning loose of stuff is harder than adding things, you know, adding elements. And, you know, in our case with financial peace, it's usually some stuff.

Right. You know, amputate the Tahoe, baby. You know, there's some stuff to happen here. But you just need somebody to say, you know, I did the same thing. It's okay. You'll be all right. Yeah. You're going to live through it.

Yeah. And you're going to get out of debt faster, and you're going to be glad you did it. But it helps having somebody in your corner like that. So that's what the show ends up being, too, for some people, this show, where people just listen to other people call in with their problems. They go, yeah, I kind of feel that. I kind of get that. Other people are just entertained by the craziness that calls in here.

I get that, too. But this community around the Dave Ramsey Show and around the Ramsey Solutions group that is this tribal thing that is happening out there, if you guys will plug into it in a positive way, not try to tear everything down, you'll find it'll lift you up. Yeah, it will. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. Our thanks to James Childs, our producer, Madison, filling in for Kelly today. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of the Dave Ramsey Show. Once again, you made The Dave Ramsey Show one of the top four most popular podcasts last year.

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