The Ramsey Show - App - The Dirty Little Secret About Real Estate Rentals (Hour 2)

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Kristina Ellis discuss: Why renting out your house when you move isn't as easy as it sounds, What to do with a student loan "refund" from your servicing company, The timing of changing careers, Budgeting for a business. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods moving and storage studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. We help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Christina Ellis, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today

as we answer your questions about your life and your money. Open phones at 888-825-5225. David is with us in Dallas to start off this hour. Hi, David. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Yes. Thank you, sir, for having me. Sure.

What's up? Yeah, so just quick context. My wife and I, when we were engaged, did FPU. That was six years ago. We are now $5,000 away from being debt-free, aside from our mortgage. Way to go. Just $5,000. Yes, thank you. It's just $5,000 left of my student loans. Here's the thing. We're pastors here in Texas. We are moving to Oklahoma to be pastors of a church there.

And what's awesome as part of the deal is we have a parsonage, so we will not have a mortgage payment there. And so my ultimate dream is that we are financially independent from the church. I love the church. I would love to one day not even have to take a paycheck from the church. And so what I'm seeing is our expenses are staying the same. Our income is actually going up a little bit with this move. And I would like to turn my house in Texas into an Airbnb property and hopefully even make income to take one step closer to being financially independent from the church. And so my question really is, is that a smart move or should I just sell my home here in Texas, profit, I don't know, the way the market is right now, I can maybe profit 60, 70K, something along those lines from what I've seen. And so I'm just asking you what maybe the better

or best option is. I love your goal and I don't dislike your plan overall. I would sell the house and move the money to Oklahoma, pile up some more cash, and pay cash for your first rental in your own backyard. Airbnbs have two problems that all the people that talk about how much money they make with them don't bring up. They have three problems that people don't bring up. Problem number one, there's a ton of hassle, a lot of details, a lot of work involved in getting the people in, getting them out,

getting them cleaned, all that kind of stuff. Like probably 25X a normal rental because you'll have multiple renters in a single month, right? And so you've got maid service. You've got a higher level of maintenance. You've got a lot of work involved in managing and messing with them. Okay, so a lot of hassle. Could I speak? Go ahead.

So sorry to interrupt. Could I just speak to that? I do have family here in Texas that would be managing the property, uh could i could i speak go ahead so sorry so sorry interrupt can i just speak to that i do have family here in texas that would be managing the property and so i kind of have a little bit of a built-in system which is a bad which is a bad idea you're going to take you're taking advantage of your family okay i'm telling you airbnb the hassle factor is very high there's great money but the hassle factor is very high so if you want to do an airbnb it needs to be in your backyard problem number one with airbnbs problem number two with

airbnbs is you have a lot of extra maintenance people tear the crap out of your property nobody talks about that that's the dirty little secret of airbnbs you're constantly buying carpet you're constantly buying paint and drywall repair uh because they do not take it i don't care how big a deposit you get or how much screening you do it's not their house and so you're going to have a high level of repairs and maintenance which is part of that hassle factor the third thing that nobody's talking about is several areas are now passing zoning, prohibiting it. Right, right.

And so if you set your whole model up only on Airbnb, you could have the rug jerked out from under you. If the only way the deal works is Airbnb, don't do the deal, because it might not be available to you. Now, if you want to run the hassle for the extra money and run the maintenance for the extra money, you'll make more money, but it's a lot of work. So I would move the money to Oklahoma, whether you're going to do a straight rental or whether you're going to do an Airbnb, because it's in your backyard and you're going to lay your hands on it. And you are a man who

controls your destiny. You don't ask your first cousin to do it. Yes, sir. Yeah. That's, that's what I would do if I were in your shoes. But I like your overall idea, but let's just pay cash for a rental and go that way. Christina? Yeah, I've talked to a lot of Airbnb owners, and it kind of does feel like a part-time job for a lot of them. You get six of them, it's a full-time job. Yeah, and I agree that having your family do that would kind of be taking advantage of them, especially if you're not paying them, if they don't get a cut of that. And if you start paying them, then the need for doing an Airbnb goes away. Yeah, exactly. And there's just a lot of mental aspects of like, I mean, there's a review system on there. So even with the maintenance, even with keeping your Airbnb up, you want to make sure that it's top notch because you want those five star reviews.

If not, you're going to have a tougher time booking people. And the list goes on and on. It can definitely be more of a headache. And I think your heart is with the church. You ultimately want to pour your heart into the church. That's why you want financial independence is so that you can love on people better. And if you're stressed out by this basic other part time job, that's not going to be the best use of your energy. Yeah, I think it's a good move. I love your move to Oklahoma

and you're making more money. Just take your the fact that you don't have a house payment anymore, pile it on top of that 60k, go pay cash for your first house, then pile all that rent up and or Airbnb money up, whatever it is, and go pay cash, go pay cash for the second house and then go pay cash for the third house. And you end up with five or ten properties, you'll have enough income coming in that you are independent, and then you can decide how you're going to serve the church and what the financial arrangement of that is. That gives you the option of that. And it does put you in a completely different position in the church world, for sure. And I love your heart and where you're talking about going with it yeah and that's a super exciting move congratulations with all of that a new job

new promotion and not having to pay rent or a mortgage that's outstanding so i think you're going to be able to pile this cash up quick yeah it's going to put you in a really really good position so i've got a good friend that uh is a pastor and he started at that age buying properties, and he's done exactly what he's talking about doing. He's become, he's become, he's got a lot of real estate, become wealthy, and he didn't steal the money from the church, and he didn't get overpaid by the church. He just managed his money well for decades and has a bunch of paid-for real estate now, and he's good at real estate. He's a pastor pastor but he's good at real estate um and so uh you know he's managed the properties well and he's you know he's he it's like his little side job so to speak his hobby he loves fooling with it he loves messing with

real estate like i do and he's just done very very well so he's many many years ahead of you uh david and um he's has done what you're right you And he's put himself in a position that he's independent from the church. And so his publishing deals, all that kind of stuff, he doesn't have to be, quote, owned by the local congregation, unquote. And it might even change your preaching a little. You never know. Could. With some people it would.

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This is The Ramsey Show. Christina Ellis, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, is my co-host today. Our question of the day comes from Blinds.com. Find out for yourself why Blinds.com is the number one online retailer of custom window coverings with free samples, free shipping, and new promos they run every month. You'll save even more. Use the promo code Ramsey to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Ashlyn in Texas. I received a student loan refund from the Relief Act pending the student loan discharge. Now that the court has blocked the discharge of loans,

should I send the refund back to my lender for the loan? Hmm, Dave, you know I love talking about this. It kind of feels like right now it's like the Wild West out there with this whole Student Loan Forgiveness Act. I'm hearing things about people just getting these refund checks that didn't even ask for refunds.

They're just sending the money back even checks that didn't even ask for refunds. They're just sending the money back, even though they didn't request it. And then some people are asking for the money back. So for those of you who don't know, people who paid on their student loans during COVID, since student loans were paused, they're eligible to ask for a refund on that money in hopes that student loan forgiveness will go through. But here's the thing. It's not gone through yet. And I think a lot of people are seeing these refund checks and assuming that that's their money now, almost as if forgiveness has happened and that all is okay. But I really want people to stop for a minute and realize that that money until and unless forgiveness goes

through, that's debt. They're just putting you back in debt with those refund checks. So if you have— It's one more time that the government used the wrong word. It's not a refund. It's not a refund. They just loaned you $10,000 more. Yeah. You had $10,000 more. Yeah.

You had $30,000 in debt, and now you have $40,000 in debt. Well, they sent money back that you paid during COVID. I know. And you're back in debt. You're back in debt. Or you're in debt more, one of the two, whichever one it was. But, yeah. So they just put you back into debt as of this moment in time if they sent you ten thousand dollars you now have a ten thousand

dollar debt it's not a refund it was a loan they loaned your money again right and student loan forgiveness it has not passed at this point so it is so important that if you got money back if you got that refund check do not spend that money don't spend that money now if you want to send it back i mean that's up to you again this is kind of all new territory this is a very strange situation for us to be in what's the downside of sending it back the downside of sending it back nothing right if they do forgiveness they're going to send it back to you again there you go if they don't do forgiveness you're not screwed and in debt again so send it back well and the danger of keeping it is you're in debt you're in debt until they

pass all this crap and they get it through you might be 96 years old when they get this stuff through and there's that temptation that's assuming you're 16 now by the way there's that temptation then to spend that money oh no no yeah yeah yeah it's not a temptation it's a likelihood so yeah send it back you ever get one of those things in the mail from the ripoff finance companies you know like companies like beneficial which isn't you know you ever get those checks in the mail it's like just deposit this check yeah you ever seen those it looks like a check you ever seen them when you flip it over it's a 34 interest loan and you can just deposit this thousand dollars they sent you a check like it was for a thousand dollars what was it it was a loan at 34 from beneficial who's

not you know that's what it was right that's what they're doing but they're here to help you they're they're here to help we're from the government and we're here to help those are words that should chill the very spine in your soul oh my gosh uh so yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah send it back now uh let's see we got a february supreme court date to rule on what the lower court has already said that biden the student loan forgiveness program is not valid okay supreme court has now been asked to rule on it they say they're going to rule on it in february um and after they rule on it you know what's going to happen you have a republican majority in the House,

and you have somewhat of a tie or whatever the flip we want to call it in the Senate, and so it's going to get all stirred up and tied up in Congress because Congress, the Republicans are going to try to pass a bill to keep Biden from doing this, and so it's going to get frozen again. And then it's going to get frozen again. You're going to be 96. You're, and then it's going to get frozen. Oh, no, no, no. You're going to be 96. You mean 96 years old when this crap?

I'm not kidding you. When we were a kid, we used to say, you know, just redneck language. It's like, well, that's going to take an act of Congress. What we were saying was it isn't likely to happen. Well, this takes an act of Congress, what we were saying was it isn't likely to happen. Well, this takes an act of Congress probably, and it's not likely to happen. So you do what you want to do, but you asked us, Ashlyn, which is a dangerous thing because we are experts in our opinion. I would send it back. Well, and here's the thing.

By sending it back, by not counting on this forgiveness. Now you don't have debt right what do you have to lose you might lose they might come out and go well the people that all sent it back we're not going to forgive theirs they might do that you might you might lose the money but let's see you already owed the money like you borrowed it so oh well uh joe who's a welder and suzy who's a waitress the taxpayers are bearing the burden of this by the way and joe who's a welder and suzy who's a waitress who didn't go to school and doesn't have any student loan debt get to pay your debt and you didn't they don't have to pay yours because you had to pay your own debt oh darn i morally hate that you paid your own debt

and joe the welder and suzy the waitress didn't have to pay your debt for you. I really hate that for you. That's just, Dave, you're not very empathetic with the Gen Z generation. They need you to meet them where they are. I don't need to meet them where they are. I need you to grasp what's going on right here. It's a moral obligation when you sign your name to pay something that you go pay it. And when you don't pay it and the taxpayer has to pay it, that's unfair to the taxpayer.

So give the refund back for that reason and for the fact that these doobers have put you back into debt again and you're twirling on the end of their string again. Stop it. Yeah. Stop it. Yeah. Stop it. You don't have to sit there and wait and be anxious and be part of this whole chaos right now. You can watch the news or not watch the news and you'll still be okay. Yeah.

See, the only reason I get any news is because James, our producer, brings me news. Because otherwise I don't put that crap in my brain. You're probably a happier person for that. Oh, I'm so much happier. I got consumed with that stuff during COVID, and I stayed so pissed off the whole time just because I was watching all these people being pissed off, and it just pisses you off,

and you just spend all your time being mad. Why do I need this crap in my brain? So I scan Fox for about a minute and a half in the morning, just their front page of their website, and just see what's going on. So I kind of have a few of the stories out there floating around and then you guys bring me stuff in here to do and other than that i'm not on freaking facebook and i'm sure not reading twitter um and i'm for sure not a tic tac i mean tic toc um so you know i mean it's just my brain is i'm

such a nicer person now that i did that y'all should have found me before you think i'm mean now you should have seen me back then so seriously it's you got to watch your inputs uh and you don't have to watch the news if you don't have any student loan debt well and with this stuff people are getting pretty hot about it like on both sides what you just said i'm like dave you're stirring the pot. Like you're going to get some people mad. Oh, you mean people are going to react to me? Oh. Oh. Such a new thing for you. Yeah.

I'm stirring up a ruckus. Well, here's the thing. I've been doing it for 30 years and I've been helping you folk because I love you and I want you to win. And I'm going to tell you the truth. And one of the things that causes you to win is a high level of integrity, personal integrity. Pay the taxes that you owe. I hate taxes, but I pay every single penny I owe. I do not cheat. I do not lie on my tax return,

not because the IRS is wonderful, not because Congress doesn't suck. Neither one of those are true. Congress does suck, and the IRS is not wonderful. That has nothing to do with my integrity. Whether i pay my taxes says my integrity and if you want to win you got to have integrity folks it's a long-term play and so i love you enough to tell you the truth have integrity it's one of the things that causes people to win with life and money it's an amazing thing so if you know if that messes up your tic well have at it this This is The Ramsey Show. Are you sick of planned obsolescence? You know, when companies make products crappy so you have to buy more of their crappy products?

Well, me too. And it's why I love companies like Grip6. Grip6 is all about quality products meant to last forever. That's why their comfortable, bulk-free belts, slimline wallets, and lightweight wool socks all come with a lifetime warranty and simple returns and exchanges. So check them out at Grip6.com today and get up to 20% off with the promo code RAMSEY. Promo code Ramsey. Christina Ellis Ramsey, personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today Dave is in Denver hi Dave welcome to the Ramsey show hello sir how are you better than I deserve what's up hey so uh I'm thinking about making a career change I just want to know if it's

something wise um well background we're in baby step seven. We have some cash stored up in our savings and we got, you know, some retirement saved as well. I'm thinking of making a transition into being a mortgage loan officer. Currently I'm a police officer making about

$110,000 a year for overtime, but looking to make this career change. Okay. Why would you do that right now? You know, I love my agency. I love being a police officer in a lot of ways, but I love my kids more. And I'm looking, you know, with the swing and graveyard shifts that I'm doing,

I'm often gone and I'm looking to kind of have more time making it to soccer games and things like that. Is the 110. I'm really getting back with my kids. Yeah. Is the 110, is it a combination of a lot of overtime or is it, is that your 40 hours? No, I, so I'm actually a sergeant. So that's my base i so i'm actually a sergeant so that's my base and then i get all the time beyond that the other thing too is i also uh i did 10 years in the army and

so i get some va benefits um about 3 700 a month so that could supplement us in the first year or two while i make the transition if that were the case. Okay. I think if you want to change careers, I'm perfectly fine with that. One of the things you have to really study is the timing of your career change. We've had more mortgage companies close up shop completely, go broke and shut down in the last six months than at any time in the last decade uh and most mortgage companies have reduced their staff by anywhere from 50 to 70 percent and the reason is is that with interest rates being six percent uh refinances have all but stopped

and most of the business that the mortgage company, most of the money the mortgage companies were making was not off of new sales. It was off of refinances. And so they would take a 3% mortgage rate, refinance a 4%, and it would come out good. So they're laying off mortgage underwriters. They're laying off people and or closing their doors at an unbelievable rate at this particular moment because the mortgage business has just stopped with the increase in rates until we see.

Now, they are still seeing some loans go through, and the loans that are going through are new house purchases or the purchase of new properties. But refinance business is all but dried up and it's um it was it was a large percentage of their uh annual income at the typical mortgage company so back in the day three years ago two years ago you could have made a couple of hundred a year as a uh a mortgage originator pretty easy and. And you could have learned the business and gone in, and yeah, I would have told you to go do that. But right now, I wouldn't go into that right now. Not today.

What's making you want to pick that industry? Because that is quite different from police. Yeah. No, there's a, I've been thinking about it. I really want to get into the marketplace. It really excites me. I'm a big fan of the monk and the merchant. And, uh, I just want to break into the marketplace, the firm that they, they said they would take me on. It's a small firm, but they do a lot of

deals. Now I say that, but they've been averaging, um, per broker one mortgage a month over the past few months because obviously like what you're saying, it's been really slow. Yeah, that's not $110,000 a year. No, no, not even close. But I didn't know if it would be acceptable due now to kind of learn the business. I would want to learn the business when the business is booming,

not when it's dying okay let's let the market recover before you enter that world or pick something different i don't know what drove you to that particular thing but i mean there's other you could go into the uh you know go get your securities license go work for a smart investor pro uh and you know get into the financial advising business if you want to be in the marketplace and you want to deal with numbers and you want to work with that that's available i mean and that's fine there's nothing that business is not dying uh it's not booming because the market's slow and and the stock market's slow and people aren't lining up to

invest but they are still investing and they have they are not doing refinances so no i would not enter the mortgage business today brand new from being a police officer straight out of the box it's not to say i think all mortgage all mortgage companies are going to fail or they're all awful or none of that i'm not saying any of that they've had to reduce staff because the reality is the uh the marketplace with the refinances has slowed down. Well, and I know it's exciting to have an offer in hand. Like part of it is that he's got that offer, but I think it'd feel really great if you got several offers in hand. So let's get him a copy of Ken Coleman's proximity principle. So he can start figuring out, you know, who in his

network has different opportunities available, especially I know with police work, a lot of people right now, that job is hard. And I think a lot of people, unfortunately, are kind of wanting to get out, which makes me sad. My husband's a former police officer, retired from the department after 17 years, and morale is really down right now. It's kind of, unfortunately, a self-fulfilling prophecy. When there was all the hate against police officers, it really broke my heart because when my husband went into police work, he was so excited about it. He had a full ride to college, super high ACT scores, could have done anything he wanted to do, and he chose to be a police officer because he was just passionate about it. He wanted to make

a difference in the world. But we went through that season of time where they got a lot of hate, and it really took a lot of the spirit out of a lot of the police officers who did it for passion and were just really excited to get in there. So I've been saying, you know, let's be careful what we say towards police, because the more you hate on police, you know, they're going to be one, a mass exodus of the best and brightest ones. And it's going to be harder to recruit people who are great at that field. So in that, I've seen in the last couple years, man, these police officers, they feel beat up. They just feel, you know, heartbroken. And I know that there are some bad police officers, but a lot of them are amazing. And they did it out of passion and they are there to serve.

And they are just so excited to show up. So I can sense that in this last call. There may be that feeling of like, I just want out. I'm just worn out. And it's easy to grab that first job. But taking some time and going, OK. This is not the month I would go into the mortgage business. I would find a different month to do it. Or I would find a different thing to go into this month.

I don't mind you changing careers. You've done a great job with your money. You're in really good shape. So hang on. We're going to set you up with Ken Coleman's assessment, which will help you figure out some things you could do now and help you line out that way. And we'll also send you from paycheck to purpose the book Christina was talking about and we'll help you with that whole process. But I personally, I love the mortgage business i've been grew up in the real estate business i love everything about that whole world um but this is exactly the wrong month yeah exactly the wrong you may be leaving a stressful career for

another stress you may be leaving a stressful career for no money at all for a while and that's just not this is not the time to do that open phones at 888-825-5225 thank you for joining us america we're so glad you're here i don't think it's any secret that we love christmas time around here i do oh there you go and hey it is a super busy time of year and if you're still shopping for the folks on your list you don't have to give a less meaningful gift just because the clock is ticking right now you can find something for everyone on your list and get free shipping on orders over 40 bucks you have until december 8th to get free shipping and have your gifts in time for christmas some of the favorite

gifts that go out this year the 2023 ramsey gold planner and i said the other day with rachel on there i thought they were sold out. They're not quite sold out, but very close. And Rachel Cruz's new wallet in red. There you go. There's your Christmas thing. And for the men, new Ramsey apparel, T-shirts, crew necks, hoodies, all with some of your favorite Ramsey sayings on them.

And all your friends, family, and coworkers, questions for humans, conversation cards. These are a must check it all out ramsey solutions.com ramsey solutions.com and free shipping on orders over 40 bucks check it out ramsey solutions.com Субтитры подогнал «Симон» Thank you for joining us, America. Christina Ellis Ramsey, personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Katie is in Colorado Springs.

Hi, Katie. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi. Good afternoon. Afternoon. What's up? I guess basically to narrow my question and try to keep it as simple as it can be. My husband and I, we run a business,

and I just have tried to come up with different ways on establishing a budget, a cash flow process. The business that we run in is general contracting. And so with subcontractors and different things, it can be up in the air. It's not always consistent. It's not always the same things like that. And I guess every direction, every way that I've tried to establish a budget, it just always seems to be too complicated, I guess every direction, every way that I've tried to establish a budget, it just always seems to be too complicated, I guess.

And I don't know if that's really such a thing, but I just need some, I don't even know where to begin anymore. I've gone rounds and circles, it seems, with trying to create a cash flow system. What kind of sub is he? What does he do? So we do painting and flooring and other general contract work in drywall and flooring painting um decks interior exterior things like that okay and he's providing he's not a general contractor he's providing the labor and doing the work yes how many how many people how many people on your team

we we run about five and then we have um consistently about up to five four to five and then we have other contractors um crews i guess that we we pull in as needed when you look around your community do you see someone who seems to be running their business in a very business-like, button-up, got-their-crap-together manner? Yes, but I guess not in our line. A drywall contractor, flooring contractor, a subcontractor that does plumbing, I in our line. No, I'm saying drywall contractor, flooring contractor, subcontractor that does plumbing, I don't care. So if you can find someone or one or two like that, ask them what software they're using because there's a lot of good different builder softwares out there,

apps that will help you manage this okay there's two or three components to you getting your arms around this and if you do not get your arms around this you're going to go broke because your world your world is full of broke people uh zombies that are walking around still open that don't even know they're not profitable. Exactly. And that's what I, like, from my perspective, like, I see that. And I guess my challenge has been in a way, you know, to try to come up with a way that will be. You've got to get your hands around it.

And honestly, there's software that will really help you do that. I was looking, talking to a general contractor this week that's using residential, and our commercial contractor is building our buildings. They're all using project management software that tracks every line item of the budget and keeps everything in line, and all you're doing is recording it as it goes along. And then it's spitting out reports for you. So the elements of what you're doing are this first there's the overall budget and the overall budget is this

month overhead this coming month what have i got coming in and what have i got going out and write that down and then give every dollar an assignment. And you can tell this month. You might not know about September right now. But you know the jobs he's on. You know the contractors you're taking a draw from. You know what jobs are about to be completed and you're going to get your final check on. You know that some of them wait 30 days to pay you. You know exactly where you stand.

And you can get very, very close to the cash coming in this month and the cash going out this month and writing all of that down. That is a budget, okay? And you can do that without software, but I don't recommend it. It's just a pain in the butt. The second layer to this that is essential to staying open, and most subs don't do this and it kills their profitability kills their cash flow and increases their stress we work with the construction businesses all the

time you can tell now the and the that the simple accounting term is called job costing and that simply means that you've got a job for jo and Susie over here, and you're putting a deck on their house. You have to run that job as if it's its own standalone business. What are they paying you for the deck? What are you paying for the wood, the nails, the saw blades, and the labor, the delivery, the flat tire? What are you attributing to that deck of overhead? And then what's your profit on that deck so your your income on the deck your every element of cost goes to a certain code and you've got deck

01 is your code and that's the first deck you did this year and everything in that one everything that's attributed to that job goes in there and then you can tell if you actually made a profit based on the bid that you gave them it will change your estimating later for future businesses for future jobs that look similar because you go on that last one we lost our butt because wood got us or we had no idea we're going to go through 73 blades or whatever it is i mean you get you get these things that come up and you can but you can't tell that if you're just throwing it against the wall to see what sticks. So you need some software that helps you do your overall budgeting and helps you do job costing, which is effectively a profit and loss statement on each and every job. That's such a good point, Dave, and I feel like so many businesses struggle with this. It's what puts a lot of businesses out of business, and I'm curious,

you know, back in the day when you started this business there wasn't all the different software how software how did you start with budgeting for business well we started with you know before computers were that big so I mean it was literally I mean we're keeping it by hand but the first thing I bought was something like QuickBooks and it's just a simple little, back in the day, you would load a floppy disk, okay? And you'd load that software on there, and it would help you run a basic profit and loss statement, a basic balance sheet. It wasn't that good, but it was about the best thing out there then. And then there was another one we advertised for a while.

I think it's still open, and they do a good job. It's FreshBooks, i believe it was called and um but just look around in the industry that you're in and figure out peach tree is another one we got later okay now we're with oracle now we're with net suite with oracle but that's a super expensive for a larger business i mean we're a 300 million dollar business so it's a different situation than five people on your team you know so you wouldn't want NetSuite from Oracle but if you're running a business our size NetSuite's incredible we just converted to it what two years ago a year and a half ago and the reporting and stuff we're getting out of it it's an amazing

software for the detail and the you know we've got all these different profit centers within Ramsey that we're tracking and not unlike her but with more zeros and more complication so but the point is there's there's some general software out there and then there's in the construction business there is some really good apps and some really good project management that has P&Ls are estimating and job costing built into it and they're not super expensive you've just got to go research figure out who what people in your business are doing find best practices and go implement them so you made these changes throughout the year throughout the years and found better products how can a business discern when it's time to change oh we were breaking it i mean we had old peach tree it

would just it would just collapse it would fall in on itself it would freeze up we'd have to reboot we'd have to clean up stuff it we had so much weight on it it couldn't carry it and it was not made for as far as we took it and then we had something after that before we went to net suite trying to remember what the one that we punted out that was did okay for it did okay for like five years or six years so as the as the size and the complexity of the business increased um and the software that we were using the budgeting software the uh financial software did not increase in sophistication and in capacity we would collapse it it would fall in on itself stupid computer frees up you couldn't get your reports out take six take six and a half minutes to do something should be half a second that kind of thing and you quickly realize've got to move out of it.

But, you know, right now at this moment, the technologies that are out there to help you guys run your businesses are really good. But you've got to actually go do the work. And then you've got to put the numbers into the software every month, every week. Very important. But it'll change your stress level in your business considerably. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show in the books. Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes.

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