The Ramsey Show - App - The Dream Is Over (Hour 3)

Episode Date: November 22, 2023

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. Wow, my voice really cracked on that. I'm Jade Warshaw, joined by... Puberty gets us all eventually. Oh my goodness. Thank you, John Deloney.

Join by my co-host, Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls. The number is 888-825-5225. I'm just excited because it's Thanksgiving. I think my voice went into higher registers than usual because of that. Let's be honest about that. You can just go with whatever story you want to. That is right. But we're happy to be here with you guys give us a call uh we are going to help you

with the things that are going on in your life and your money that's what we're going to do here with woody from bowling green kentucky what's going on what's going on can you hear me we got you what's up woody i'm on a flip phone. I'm old-fashioned. We're old-fashioned, too. Perfect. What's up, man? Yeah, my girlfriend's having a, well, I found out a heart. I think I lost her.

There we go. Sorry, that was on me. Sorry about that, Woody. Okay, okay. Okay. So she's getting a heart transplant, and then I. So she's getting a heart transplant, and then I found out she's getting a kidney transplant. Whoa.

Yeah, she's on the list, and they're looking for one right now. Wow. That's a full-on, that's like a... A new body. Yeah, that's a Chip and Joanna makeover. That's all the way to the studs, man. What's going on? Yeah, and so, and that's down at St. Thomas's. That's all the way to the studs, man. What's going on? Yeah, and so in that town at St. Thomas is where they're going to do this.

And, I mean, they're looking right now, and it could happen at any time, I guess, and it might not, but you just don't know. But anyway, the question is, am I responsible for her medical bills? This is the concern? Well, let me tell you in life, work and family. Work comes first, family comes second. And why that is, if you ain't got no money, the family's going to leave anyway. Wait a minute no

I think you got that backwards brother but I no no no well when you're under the bridge down there and they say daddy what's going on who said daddy what's going on Woody

Woody pull back hold back hold back for a second hold up hold up thank you it's interesting to me that this is your girlfriend how long has she been your girlfriend number one Woody, pull back. Hold back for a second. Hold up. Hold up. Thank you.

It's interesting to me that this is your girlfriend. How long has she been your girlfriend, number one? Please say six weeks. Please. 20 years. Woody! 20 years? Yeah.

Woody, why haven't you married her yet? I'm Catholic. What? I don't even know what that means reason to marry her because i know y'all living together yeah well you work some help but yeah no uh uh i've been married one time she's been married one time and we just rather not woody you've been married for 20 years i know right you can pretend all you want and play games but you've been as married as as any other married folks that's right everybody thinks that everybody says that they keep calling my wife i said she's not my wife

why do you feel that way i'm trying to understand why you feel that way. Why you don't want to go all the way. Take it to the limit. You ever heard the song The One-Meter? Yes. That's me. Hey, Woody, you watch too much Yellowstone is what you do. Woody is a Rolling Stone, guys. Hey, Woody, she's your wife.

And you can call her whatever you want to. She's your wife. Yeah. Let me ask you this, and this is all seriousness. Okay. If I had a friend, I'm thinking I have a particular friend in my mind, just a buddy of mine, okay, a guy that I grew up with. If that dude lived with me for 20 years, was just my my ride or die friend and he had to go

to the hospital and have just a complete transmission change right yeah i would i not obligation but as my brother i would participate in helping where i could i i'm struck by your question yeah because she is your wife you can call it what you want she's your wife you've been together for 20 years living together yeah do you not want to pay you don't want to help like what's what's the where's what's the root of the question well the trouble is the money the money's not there well does she then why ask the question it don't matter what you're obligated if you don don't got it, you don't got it. I mean, she has insurance. Yeah, she got Humana and Medicare or whatever.

And so do we know, have you guys talked with them to know, okay, what is this going to cost? Like, what's your out-of-pocket maximum? Is she doing stuff that is above and beyond her coverage? Do you guys know what that is? Because those are real questions I do want you to ask. We're not going to aim at it. She, she wants to,

why? Well, cause we want her to have the heart and the kidney. Well, yes, but the money don't mean nothing. It does. It does.

It does mean something. Woody, I'm gonna challenge you on that because she, she has insurance. All you need to do is call them up today and say, Hey, my girlfriend is having this procedure my common law wife um you know as as far as we know like she's going to the doctors

and stuff that she's supposed to do what's our per year what's the maximum we're going to pay per year because this is going to be some ongoing treatment what's the maximum we'll pay per year and they might say something like seven thousand dollars or four thousand dollars or ten thousand dollars but knowing is good then my next question is has she been working does she have any money anywhere that's that's where i come in at okay so your money bags i provide her a roof and food a roof and food okay yeah i mean it's uh when she when i found out that she was sick actually we had we was getting ready to part part ways kind of because i travel a lot and you know we get along great and she watched the house for me make sure nobody don't steal nothing you know what i'm

saying and but you're describing you're describing my dog, Rose. And this is not the first time y'all have tried to part ways. Let's be honest about that. You keep ending up together. My country dog watches the house while we're gone. Yeah, yeah. Well, she's had a rough, I say a rough life. She's been with you for 25 to 30% of it.

I know it. I know. And it just. Hey, do you love her? Do you love her? Are you just with her out of convenience? And out of uncomfortable? Both. It's both, I guess.

Let me ask you this. Just just just guy to guy. Nobody's listened to us except for a couple of million people. Yeah. Well, what are you afraid of are you afraid about to lose the person that you love uh both no i want you to be honest we've been clawing around i want you to be honest are you terrified that you're about to lose your best friend and oh no doubt no doubt okay i mean you know we've been you know we've been through several things, both of us. I know you have.

And I know how this world works. None of us get out of it alive. The lawyers don't care. No, we're not passing none of this crap off to the lawyers. This is about you being my brother, one state over, a grown man, not putting your head in the sand when something scary is coming up against the woman you love. You're going to do what Jade said. Why don't you call the hospital, get some numbers on this thing. It's not about, am I responsible for her bills?

The woman I love might die. I'm going to do what I can. And she's not a pet. She's not somebody watches the house. She's the woman of the last quarter century of your life. Let's see what we can do with some real numbers and some real action. And let's support that woman. We'll be right back. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I am Jade Warshaw, joined by Dr. John Deloney. We are taking your call.

So give us a call. 888-825-5225 is how you can reach us by the way if you're a new listener and if you want to dive deeper into the Ramsey baby steps you can go ahead and go to ramseysolutions.com and click on that get started button we'll help you figure out the best next steps for your financial journey based on exactly where you're at today so if you are new head over to ramseysolutions.com and click get started. We'd love if you did that. Let's go straight to the phone lines. Richmond, Virginia, we've got Breon on the line. Hi, how are you guys doing today? Doing well. How are you? I'm doing all right.

Just getting a little stressed. Okay. I feel that. What's going on? So my situation is a little two-part. I've been listening long enough to know a little bit of how to get out of debt, but I keep starting budgets and don't know how to stick to them, and then they kind of fall apart, life happens. And then the second part of that is I know the easiest way is to increase income. And in my position, I keep hitting this brick wall of you're overqualified and don't have enough experience in stuff like grocery or trying to pick up extra shifts at a local restaurant, doing server work or that kind of stuff.

So I don't know how to over- They're saying you're overqualified when you try to get that extra jobs. I see. I've had a McDonald's tell me face-to-face, yeah, you're way overqualified to ever work here. Do you tell them, hey, this is not my be-all, end-all. I'm just trying to make some extra cash? I have told some, yes. I would do that.

Tell all of them. So, hey, before Jade answers, because Jade's just the guru at walking people through this. In both of the scenarios you just painted, you've kind of cornered yourself as this tragic victim in this story. And you owe a whole bunch of money and you're running up against some roadblocks. But I want you to, you've got to change your psychology on this or it's just always going to be too heavy does that make sense it does like you're it feels like you're going through life and life keeps happening to you instead of you saying no this is my one precious reckless life and i'm going to live it all the way i'm going to go all in right and that means like i'm not going to let an

assistant manager at mcdonald's tell me i'm overqualified i'm going to convince them i need to work and I'm going to work harder than anybody you got on staff. And I got 59. You see what I'm saying? Like, it's just a matter of, I'm not, I just refuse to be a victim in this story. And so I want you to change your psychology there and Jade will walk you through it. She's the, she's the goat at this. But let's, let's throw your shoulders back, man, stand up tall. And like, we're going to go head on and deal with this problem. Hey, how old are you? I'm 32. Okay, 32. And what's your real job? So I'm a full-time videographer. Okay,

videographer. And is it your business or you work for a company? I work for a company. Okay. So what would it look like if you really are getting these doors closed in your face? If I were in your shoes, I'm always one that if I'm looking for some side hustle work I'm going to do the thing that's directly related to what I already know how to do because I probably already have connections I already know I love doing it and I can charge more because I've cut out the middleman you know what I'm saying so what would it look like you going out and getting some clients and you videoing some weddings and you being at the bar mitzvah or whatever it is. Are you able to do that? Say it again.

It's funny you say that. I do that on the side. And it just it doesn't bring in enough for me to. I have kids. I guess I left that part out. I have kids. How many? And so it's kind of four.

Is it just you or do you have a wife? I'm divorced. OK. So you're saying it's a time. Is a time constraint is that the problem um not so much as a time constraint as much as um i save money and then you know kids need new clothes or new shoes or right but that's a budgeting issue that's a budgeting issue and we'll talk about that are the kids with you full-time or do you guys split it 50 50 how does that work um they're with mom full-time and i'm kind of at this point i'm the cash cow okay dude there you go again there you go back into your like ah corner quit being the cash cow well you what well wait a minute because

yeah you have four kids you need to pay for them. Oh, absolutely. Okay. I just wanted to, the way you said it made it seem like you were kind of mad that you had to pay for your kids. I'm just saying the way it came across. You might not have meant it that way. I forgive you. No, not at all. Okay, moving on. Moving on. Here's what I, number one, I wholeheartedly agree with John because it's kind of like, I tried this, I hit a wall, it didn't work. Woe is me. I tried this, I hit a wall,

it didn't work. Woe is me. Rarely will it work the first time. Like usually you have to keep swinging and swinging and knocking and knocking and kick these doors down because nothing gets just, and you know this, nothing is handed to you and nothing is free and almost these doors down. Cause nothing gets just, and you, you know, this, nothing is handed to you and nothing is free and nothing, almost nothing is easy, you know? And so I really want you to go, Hey, like look in your, look in the mirror tonight and go, this is going to be hard. This is going to be really hard. And once you've just been real with yourself, it's like, okay, now let's go. This is not going to be easy. This is a season and it's going to be tough. Once you admit that, then it's like, we're off to the races. So keep knocking on the door, doing the videographer work, then go get you an Instacart

job too. Now you're making more money. I want you on a budget. Here we do an every dollar budget. I want you to download it. You can download it for free on your own tonight. And then once you have the budget, those things that are what I would call just normal monthly expenses that come up will no longer be these things that throw you off your game and you're having to dig into your savings because on the every dollar budget, you'll be able to say, okay, I bring in an X amount of dollars each month. So how much money do you bring in each month? About three, 3000 taxes and insurance. Perfect. So at the top of your budget, there's a place for you to put income. You'll put $3,000. Then there's a place where you can list

everything that you could ever think of spending money on in a month and it will do the math for you. So you're going to spend that $3,000 on paper or on digital paper on purpose. So December's coming up. I want you to say, okay, I'm making a budget for December. How am I gonna spend this $3,000? And you're starting with the four basic walls, right? Your rent and your transportation and your utilities and your food, that's first.

And then you go back through the next most important items. And then you make sure to write all the things that your kids might need. And look at their feet. Do they need new shoes? If you see, okay, the shoes are getting worn out. I'm going to start putting aside a little bit of money for that. But when you give this money a plan, suddenly it's like, okay, I see where it's going. And like you said, you can identify it. It seems like it's a little bit of an income problem and maybe it's a little bit of a, I just needed a plan problem.

Hold on. It sounds like it's a massive, massive income problem. Yeah, it is. It is. You're right. Bro, you make $50,000 total, $48,000 probably? Yeah. And that's including the side hustles? Yes.

With four kids? Yeah. Bro, your videography dream is over. I'm not playing. You got to go make some money. You can be an assistant manager at mcdonald's and make that money that's real like you got to let that dream go dude you got four kids and you're drowning in debt how much do you owe uh total debt about 140 000 holy smokes

okay okay yeah we're the dream's over. Or at least it's on pause. You can't afford the life. You can't afford it. So you said you're overqualified. What makes you overqualified? What degree do you have? What are they seeing on paper? So I have a bachelor's degree in mass communications. I used to work in news and news doesn't pay very well right neither it is whatever you're doing now it pays a lot more than news all right this is a wake-up call yeah this is a wake-up call because here's a problem we can tell you all day i'm getting mad we can tell you all day long here's a solution here's a solution if you don't want to see the solution, there is no solution. You see what you want to see. You go through life and you can look for reasons that you can, or you look for reasons that you can't. Right now, dude, you are looking for every single reason that you can't and you will find it every single time. But I promise you the moment that

you wake up and you say, I want to see reasons that I can do this. You will start to see them. This is all going on upstairs. You have told yourself that you've lost and you say, I want to see reasons that I can do this, you will start to see them. This is all going on upstairs. You have told yourself that you've lost and you have told yourself that you are the victim and there's no getting out of this. And only you can control that. John and I can tell you till you're blue in the face. There's options here.

You can look at this. You can look at that. But we can't be the ones to change your mind and we can't be the one to tell you. We can only tell you you can do it. We can't go out ones to change your mind and we can't be the one to tell you, we can only tell you you can do it. We can't go out and do it for you. We can't do it for you. So you've told yourself, I won't do it.

I won't do it. That's what you told yourself. And I'm telling you, you can say you won't, but don't tell me you can't. People pull themselves out of holes every single day, holes deeper than yours. They go out and they work and they get it done because they know they can do it and they know they need to do it.

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I'm your host, Jade Warshaw. I am joined by my other host for the day, Dr. John Deloney. We're taking your calls, so give us a call. It's the day before Thanksgiving, which is awesome, and Thanksgiving Day is awesome, but what's really awesome is black Friday. And if you are looking for some great deals, be sure to head over to Ramsey solutions.com slash store. We've got some really great black Friday deals going on. Lots and lots of books on sale on there. Dave's got some books on sale, a total money makeover,

baby steps, millionaires, John, I know you've got a couple on sale for very low. Your new book is out. Go get it. My new book is out. It's very low. It's 10 bucks. Let's see. George Campbell's got a book out. His is 20 bucks. It's called Breaking Free from Broke. My book is called Money's Not a Math Problem. But I'll be honest, out of all the book releases that we have going on, Rachel Cruz has one out that I

am like, look, if you have kids, this is for you. The book is called I'm Glad for What I Have. And it's teaching our kids about contentment. And I look, John, the way my kids are, we go to Target. They're already telling me on the way to the store, like what they hope to get. And I'm like, you don't need anything. I've seen your room. Like, you don't need anything.

And so this book is so great. It's so heartwarming. It's got this message that really teaches kids about the feeling like entitlement, contentment, true happiness does not come from stuff. At the end of the day, your contentment, your source of like, okay, everything's good and fine. It really comes from Jesus Christ. So if you were wondering, it is a faith-based ending, but that's all right by me, you know, and honestly, what a great message. I don't care really what your belief is. It's good to know that our contentment doesn't come from stuff. So if you're interested in that, you can head over to ramseysolutions.com slash store and order your copy. It's 15 bucks. I'm in it. I love it. Do it. All right. Let's go straight to the phone lines we've got tony who's in syracuse new york

what's going on tony sorry i threw you off once for taking my call you're welcome what's up so essentially i'm 21 i have a pretty good job and i'm recovering from a gambling addiction. I just quit a little over a month ago. You have a 30-day chip? I do not. I'm not in any sort of classes for it. I've really been kind of coaching myself through it. How's that going? It's going good. It's getting to a point where I really don't have any urge to do it. I would say I caused enough problems from it to where I kind of got fed up.

And I'm pretty much just trying to get myself back on track here to better my finances currently and going into the future and was just looking for some advice on that. Okay. Jade's going to walk you through some stuff and we're going to honor you. You got 30 days sobriety, a little bit over 30 days. So we're going to hook you up with some free stuff to get you started. I mean, to keep you going. But I'm going to tell you right now, there is zero, none, no long-term life change done in isolation, period. So when it comes to your money, when it comes to not gambling, when it comes to, I don't know, going to the gym, when it comes to your spiritual life, whatever you got going on, you have to have at least somebody, preferably more than just one person, that you can walk alongside with you, that you can call and say, dude, I've got the urge bad right now. Can you come over? Or, hey, I'm coming over. Or, dude, I'm about to spend something. I just had somebody call from the

past, wants me to come over. You've got to have other people that you can communicate with. You can white knuckle for a while, for real. and but man life will come hit you in the mouth and you gotta have other people is that fair and i'm only telling you that because i've just been doing this too long i agree okay do you have somebody you can call when things get dicey no i i would say i more so i rely on people who I know care about me. There's definitely people close to me who I can talk to about it. I haven't really gone the professional route. That's fine.

That's okay. That's all right. But you've got people in your life that know the extent of the damage you've done? Yes. What did you do? You said you blew something up so bad you quit. What did you do? You said you blew something up so bad you quit. What'd you do? Well, it kind of started with me just blowing paychecks sports betting about a year ago, just coming into having some good money.

I kind of didn't know what to do with it all. At first I was real good, and then I found out about sports betting and had a problem with that. And what it really came down to that was kind of my rock bottom was I had been investing in crypto for a while and I had about 10,000 and um so this was like money I would not touch at for so many circumstances, I refused to touch it, even throughout me doing the sports betting. And I started to gamble that on crypto casinos online. And this was money that to me, regardless of how volatile the crypto space is, I cherished it. I was very reluctant to touch it at all for a long time. And essentially, I let that consume me and blew every last dollar of that.

And that was ultimately the thing that really hit me hard enough to say, okay, this is really bad. I need to stop for good. All right. So I'm turning this over to Jay, and she's going to walk you through the budgeting and all that stuff but well can i ask a question yeah go ahead um and i correct me go for it i i feel like usually when people dig into these things it's because they're trying to mask something else or like escape in some way have you gotten to the bottom of what that is

because i can give you all the money advice in the world, but if you don't know what that thing was, it's not going to help you, I don't think. Is that fair enough, John? Yeah, the question is, most people go to these things to feel alive. What is it about your day-to-day life that you don't feel like you've got enough

adrenaline pumping through your veins? Are you gone? I think I may have lost him. Do you bail on us? That's okay. Let's keep talking about it because he can hear us. Do you see what I'm saying?

My point is if there's some sort of hurt or pain or something about your life that sucks and you're like, I'm doing this instead, figuring out what that is,

I feel like is a big piece of this. That being said, that's his homework, right? Right, so the question really switched for me is about 10 years ago, a little bit more than that, when I stopped asking, dude, what's the matter with you? Why would you gamble your paycheck away? And I started asking, man, what is happening in your life that this is the best way your body's figured out

how to get through a day? Exactly. And until you figure that out, and that's why my first question is, you got a chip. Have you been sitting around a table with a room full of people getting to the bottom of what is your body trying to do, numb or distract or- But he said no. Pump gasoline through veins. So he's just white knuckling. He's going for it. Some people, the data they can they can do that for a season but you gotta have people that you can call and they know exactly what's going on they know hey dude um they i've shared my amazon account i'm not me personally but i have given

somebody else access to my checking account because i trust them and they're going to look at look at it every once in a while people who are trying to get off pornography, they give their computer login to somebody else, right? Or whatever, right? Like real accountability. It's having accountability and not in a judgmental way, but in a, hey, I'm here with you kind of way, right? And it lets your body go, and then you can get to the real stuff. And I'd say he needs that when it comes to this money. 100%.

He's 21 years old. that when it comes to this money. He needs somebody who, like you said, has access, can log in and see what you've been spending your money on so that it's not just you giving your word. Oh, no, dude, I haven't. I didn't do it. I didn't do it. Like they need to be with you and walking with you. We say all the time you need accountability, but this is a whole other level of that. And I think that it's extremely necessary. You know, at the end of the day, if you've acquired debt from gambling gambling we got to start working to pay it off but first things first I think with him just getting in the habit of saying this is my paycheck and I do what I said I'm going to budget with my paycheck like don't get caught up with a

bunch of other things just practice the habit of I stick to my budget, whatever that is. I make 3000 bucks a month. I plan the $3,000 a month and I stick to it. If you can get there, I think that's good. And then we go to the next level. How do I bump it up a notch? And now I'm going to start accomplishing different goals. So he hasn't done this in a while. Obviously he's been battling with this, but that's the next step for you. Get on an every dollar budget, take whatever money you're getting in, budget it and stick to the budget. Build up some confidence that you can do what you say you're going to do. And in the meantime, make sure you have somebody else looking at those numbers with you.

It feels different when you know someone's looking over your shoulder. This is The Ramsey Show. You're listening to The Ramsey Show. I'm Jade Warshaw, joined by Dr. John Deloney and it is officially Thanksgiving over here because John is gobbling up these cookies I got cookies man so good they make them over here in the cafe they're the best I'm not mad at you look when I get home I'm gonna get into it I don't know what I'm getting into but I'm gonna get involved in something I know that the scripture and quote of the day, it says,

give thanks to the Lord for he is good. His love endures forever. Amen. That's 1 Chronicles 1634, or as some people might say, 1 Chronicles. Did you get my joke? That was excellent. That was incredible.

Oh boy. And then Ernest Hemingway said- My favorite book. Ernest Hemingway said My favorite book. Ernest Hemingway said, now is no time to think of what you do not have. Think of what you can do with what there is. I love that. In the spirit of

thankfulness and gratitude. I love that so much. Let's go straight to the phone lines where we've got Ian in Chicago, Illinois. What's going on, Ian? Hey guys, how are you? Doing well. Yeah, so my wife and I have been doing Baby Step 2. I've been on it since July of 2022. It's going really well, kicking butt. I had $130,000 of IRS debt and I've knocked it down to below just below 60 grand now. Okay. And

I'm wondering, should I get a loan to get it out of their hands and stop paying the extra fees? Why do you have this IRS debt? So I'm also a recovering addict and for several years I did not pay my taxes. I work as a, I'm responsible for paying quarterly estimated taxes as self-employed and I just didn't do it for five years because I was messed up. Okay. How quickly are you going to be able to pay off this final 60K? Like what's your margin? Like what are you throwing at it each month it's been so my the minimum i'm throwing at it every month is twenty seven hundred dollars but lately i've really been able to go hard and throw extra at it so like we've paid off twenty six thousand

dollars of it in the last two months which feels awesome that is amazing i'm so proud of you man way to go i'm so proud of you it's incredible Way to go. I'm so proud of you. It's incredible. I'm so grateful. We saw you guys at Willow Creek when you guys were here in Chicago. It was awesome. We're just so inspired. Man, I'm inspired.

The fact, what you're telling me, you're kicking this debt's butt. Now, what else do you have after it? Because I have a feeling that that's kind of more what's making you consider this route. Do you have other debt besides this IRS debt? So we just got married in September and we married our debt.

So my wife brought in $53,000 of student loan debt. And then that's it. We paid off our cars. We paid off our credit cards. Yeah, you know, I probably wouldn't do that. I understand the sentiment behind your thought of, I can move it over here and there's less fees and penalties, but you're going to have an interest rate.

And my guess is that you're, you know, it's kind of trading one set of problems for another set of problems. Had this debt still been at the 130, possibly we could have talked about it if you were telling me, hey, I'm getting hit with these kinds of taxes and these kinds of penalties. Like I'd want to know exact numbers. But honestly, at this point in the journey, man, I would just run it down the field.

What, what do you have a settlement with them? I did. And then during COVID I was out of work and I, so I had like an installment agreement, but insurance or interest in penalties still accrue even during that. Yeah. What are the penalty?

Like if you're following. I'm tempted to say, go get one. What I want to know what the interest in the penalties are. Like what are, what are we talking about per month? When does it hit? Is it per quarter?

How, how's it go? The IRS interest is, it amounts to about eight and a half percent. Okay. And the loan I was looking at is 9%. So pretty similar. Okay.

And then the penalties, I don't know. They seem maybe random or quarterly. I haven't figured out. Probably quarterly. It's really hard to talk to someone there. Yeah, yes. You are right about that, my friend. Man, if it's a wash, I just don't want to do business.

But who's going to give you a $60,000 loan at 9%? Exactly. So-fi. Nope nope i ain't going and i am telling you no i am not going yeah you're making just you're trading one deal the devil with it for another one and the thing is you're burning through this like you just told us you paid off almost thirty thousand dollars in a few short months so i think you've got momentum and you're right. The IRS is the worst. It's like they only want to talk to you in letter form. One letter once a year, it's the worst. So I think you keep running the ball down the field. And I think by the end of the year, you're going to look up, not by the end of this year,

but for sure, like going into the next year, in 12 months, you're going to look up and this is going to be gone. And I would not get in bed with anybody else on this. I just go through it. The only person I would consider getting in bed with, Jade, would be if, and as I say, a local credit union wouldn't give you $60,000. Exactly. If you got it down to 25 or, and you sat down with a banker and said, here's my trajectory. And I would actually be honest. I'm a recovering addict.

Here's where I've been. Here's the last five years. Here's what I've paid off. I'm sick of doing with the government. They may do that. If you can look at a banker in the eye and shake their hand, they may do that. Yeah,

they might do it. But 60,000 bucks, dude, it's, I would not get in bed with another loan shark, like another nationwide loan shark. That's as big as the irs because at the end of the day i mean eight percent i mean that's that's a that's a student

loan like it's it's not crazy if you had told me it was like 22 like something crazy like a credit card interest rate i would have definitely been more along the lines of how can we get this lower now those quarterly uh fees that you were talking about, if you could guess, what have those been? What do they look like? Is it just $20? They're not as bad as, well, yeah, like over a few years, I think they climbed up to like between $800 and $2,000 or something like that. Yeah. Yeah.

Just pay it off. Pay it off. It's not worth it. I think it sucks to pay extra, but that's kind of part of the stupid tax here, right? You didn't pay it. Yeah, whatever you want to call it. You didn't pay it, and they're paying you. You have a penalty on it, and it's hard.

Sometimes you can't get out of that. Hey, what was your – well, I got you, man. Let me turn the tables and ask you a question. What was your magic – it's not magic. It's probably a ton of hard work and humility what's the path you took out of out of addiction 12 step baby there you go all the time 60 months five years out i'm three and a half years wow dude i'm so proud of you congratulations you got little ones that's a blessing what's that you got little ones not yet but we're trying.

Awesome, man. I love it. Congratulations. Congratulations. Congratulations. You got six figures of debt, just like Jade and I did, and we're both free, and you will be too, man. I'm proud of you. Ooh, I love it.

That's a great way to enter into Thanksgiving, being super thankful. Look, IRS debt is nothing to play with. And for anybody listening, if you have IRS debt, even though we always say list your debts from smallest to largest, right? And you pay the little one first, regardless of interest rate. IRS debt is one of the only debts that we say, no matter what, put that at the top of the list because you don't want to mess with the IRS. Number one, they are so hard to communicate with. And number two, they have the power to literally reach into your account and garnish your wages for stuff. They

have the ability to take your passport away if you don't pay. Like there are real things that they can do to make your life very difficult. So if anybody has that sort of debt, always put it first. That's what you want to do. And that's what he's doing. The fact that he blew through, man, I mean, he's almost done. I'm excited for him and he's sober and they're having a kid look it doesn't get any better than that john good for you that's rich impressive very very cool all right i would say we have time to take another call but i don't think we do casey is from kansas city oh yeah we won't have time to do it let's do this james what's something you're uh grateful for as we head into thanksgiving besides me and jade well that's funny that's what i was gonna say um i am grateful for i am thankful um for my family ah yeah that's not what you were saying during the break but we'll

let that ride on air that's cool that's cold i'm not gonna tell them what you were saying during the break because i can't say it on the air that That's fair. That is also true. Jade, what are you grateful for? Oh, man. You know, I'm really grateful. I had some friends come see me. You guys know I'm from South Florida. And so I miss my friends. And my friends surprised me.

They came up here yesterday, two days ago, when I was working out, doing my workout in the garage at like 6 a.m. in the morning. My best buddy popped in there and I almost lost it. John, it was the best. So really grateful for friends. Friends are medicine, man. That's incredible. What about you? I had a buddy, gosh, he's in his 50s. He's the CEO of a lawn care company in Texas.

His name's Kevin. And he called me yesterday and said, hey, before Thanksgiving, you're going to hear these words from me and you're going to sit there and take it. I love you and I'm glad that you're my friend. And I was just really blessed that he did that. I'm grateful for my friends. I love it. Find something that you're thankful for. There's a lot going on. Things want

to steal your joy. They want to take your peace. Don't let it happen. You get to control that. You get to control your joy and your peace. And you've got a lot to be grateful for. You've got a lot to be thankful for. Hey, I'm thankful for you. This is The Ramsey Show.