The Ramsey Show - App - The False Stability of a “Real” Job

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman discuss: The stability of self-employment vs. a "real" job, Paying for job certifications, Deciding whether or not to buy a company, Should you pay off your kid's house? How to further your career. Support Our Sponsor: Newton Group: https://bit.ly/3BnPn1k  Want a plan for your money? Find out where to start: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host, Ken Coleman. Ramsey Personality is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your relationships, your mental health, your job, your career, and your money. Overall, your life right here on The Ramsey Show. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Brian is in California. Hey, Brian, welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hey, Dave, how's it going? Thank you for taking my call. My pleasure, sir. How can I help? Yeah, so I'm just going to read out this thing that I wrote here. It says, I'm debt-free. I have an emergency fund. I have a business emergency fund as well, and I'm on baby step 3B.

And I just want to know if I made the right decision. I've worked for seven years in the construction industry. Since the age of 18, I am now 25, making really good money in my own business. And I feel bad, like I let my ex-employer down. Did I make a good decision leaving my old company? My family makes me feel bad like I charge too much. I have many clients that are happy to pay my rate, and honestly, I charge what an average professional handyman charges in my area.

So what did you used to make? I made $30 an hour. And what do you, well, okay, so what's that equate to a year? Like $55,000. Okay, so you're making $60,000 a year. And what do you make now? Now like $120. Okay.

I'm confused where the mistake might be. Yeah, it's just my old company called me earlier today, and they want a decision, and they want to know if I'm going to come back because initially I told them I was going to take a break. No, I don't have brain damage. All right. Am I missing something, Coleman? Well, I don't know why your family is making you feel badly about leaving this company

when you've doubled your salary and you're working for yourself. I mean, my goodness. I just don't understand. I'm not sure what's missing either, but you don't need to feel guilty or bad. I don't know if they're worried about stability, but there's this myth sometimes with our friends and family members who don't have an entrepreneurial spirit. Maybe they've never worked for a true entrepreneur. Maybe they've never done it themselves. And so they think government jobs or, well, if you work for a bigger company, it's more stable.

The fact of the matter is, is that you are more stable working for you with the skill sets that you have. Because I've got to tell you something. During the pandemic, what we saw are folks like you were booming with their businesses and their work. So I don't know what's missing either, but you need to stay working for yourself based on what I've heard. So the only reason you would go back to work for the other company is because your relatives say you charge too much, and it's evil that you've become wealthy doing this at 25 years old. Or you would go back to work there because somehow you have some kind of misguided loyalty to a company that used to pay you less than half of what you make now.

Yeah, it's more the other last part. You know, I feel like Yeah No, no There's never been anyone that worked at Ramsey That left here and made double That I suggested they should come back for half Never Never have I suggested that

Because I actually like the people that work here And if they can make double somewhere else I would like that for them Generally speaking, these days That's not possible because we pay so dadgum much now but in the old days when we were getting started we didn't pay a lot and people would leave and go make more money and i just had to help them leave and go with i love you and go make more money that's awesome go do it uh but i don't have to do that these days thank god but the um yeah because but but you need to keep doing what you're doing so uh

brian i had a relative uh several years ago that loved me deeply and she was a very very sweet little lady and her husband had worked in corporate america at the same job for 38 years and she was so thankful that he had this steady job. And every time I would see her, she would ask me when I was going to get a real job. The last time she asked me that, in that calendar year, I made more in that one year than her husband made in his entire working lifetime. But she was still waiting on me to get a real job. Yeah, I hear you. And so it was not because she was bad she actually loved me and she was

worried about me because she was worried it was unstable and that being self-employed is unstable and what you find out when you're self-employed like you are especially with when you're a handy man and you're probably a one or a two-man show you find out that you are actually the secret sauce at the end of the day. At the end of the day, you are what really you can count on. And by the way, it was that way all along. It was that way all along. When that guy worked for Corporate America, that was my relative who was a sweet man. He was a nice man.

I'm not belittling him at all. But it was just the mathematics were humorous of her point of me getting a real job. And she just desired security to the point that she misjudged where security comes from. And security comes from your ability to get up, leave the cave, and kill something and drag it home. And you have proven your ability to do that, young man. I'm very proud of you. You should keep doing what you're doing.

Yeah. Well done. Thank you. So much, Dave. Thank you so much. Thank you. thank you god bless you wow i talked to a handyman the other day you made 300 last year oh yeah it's a stinking because you can't get nobody to show up if you just show up you could charge about anything you want to charge it's pretty amazing it's a premium service and you know just a young man right there wouldn't you love to have him in your house fixing stuff oh i would definitely pay him sweet spirit him

extra and let's let's just let's just belabor this point about the size of a company equating to stability we've all seen large companies completely evaporate or lay off people by the thousands okay i mean peloton did it recently They were the hottest, one of the hottest consumer products during the pandemic. Until they weren't. Until they weren't. Remember Enron? Go look that story up, a public company. So, you know, this idea that, well, I'm going to put my fortune in somebody else's hands and that's stable. Well, that's just a bunch of garbage, especially when you work for yourself. You got sound financial principles. Here's the thing. You always work for yourself. When you work for a company, you just have one client.

That's right. You've got one customer. That's it. And when you work for yourself and you have a bunch of customers, it's no different. And so I've got millions of customers. But when you work for a company and James has one customer, as far as I know, we're his only customer, Ramsey Solutions. And that's not not a bad thing that's not the end of the world but they this idea that somehow that you're not self-employed at the end of the day your responsibility

your life is your responsibility and when you acquit when you turn that responsibility over to someone else when you dispatch it to someone else in the name of security. And you say, okay, I no longer have to worry about that because that company is going to worry about it. You just sacrificed something. So we tell our people around here, they're all self-employed. We say it all the time. It's one of our 14 core values.

You're self-employed. You're self-employed. You're self-employed. Act like you're self-employed. Act like you own this place. Act like when you see a piece of paper on the ground, pick it up like you own the place. Be responsible. Act like you're self-employed. Act like you're self-employed. And even if you're not technically, you'll always prosper with that mentality. This is The Ramsey Show. you've got a lot on your plate a job your home your marriage and your growing family

while you're enjoying the present, you can't help but think about your future and your finances. As you explore your options, consider Christian Healthcare Ministries, or CHM, for your healthcare. Their generous maternity program and budget-friendly monthly programs have been a blessing to members welcoming children into their families. Visit chministries.org slash budget to see if it's right for you. Christian Healthcare Ministries is a Ramsey Tr we're big fans of those of you who serve. By the way, that's almost all of you, but really those of you that serve in the military, we love you. Those of you that serve in the classroom, teachers, we're big fans of teachers here.

And all year long, you've been grinding it out to make sure your students are actually learning despite all the distractions that they're dealing with right now. And you work so dad blame hard, and you care even more. It's teachers like you who have taught our foundations and personal finance curriculum and have changed the lives of over 5 million students have now gone through this in high school. April is National Financial Literacy Month, and we're celebrating teachers with our Teacher Appreciation Giveaway. Even teachers that have not even taught the class yet, our class. They just teach.

If you're just a teacher, we just love teachers. We love just teachers. This is a giveaway sponsored by Borrowed Future. It's our hit documentary about the dark side of the student loan industry. A teacher can enter to win. No purchase necessary today. We're going to be giving away $5,000 cash to two lucky teachers, and three teachers will each win $1,000 cash and even more.

Don't miss out, teachers. Go to ramseysolutions.com slash teacher. If you know a teacher that you love, be sure you tell them to go to ramseysolutions.com slash teacher and get signed up because, hey, you might win $5,000. Somebody does every time we do this. There's going to be two of them this time. And Financial Literacy Month, our way of celebrating teachers.

If you haven't read the blog we posted, that I posted, on my various social media channels, I didn't do the posting, I wrote the blog, because I don't even know how to do the posting, on Instagram and, what is it, Facebook and those other things, it's on there. So you can find it, just me celebrating all the old school teachers. I love old teachers. And some of you are young teachers, but you've got those old teacher values, and that's the ones that we love. They were the ones that were tough on us and put up with us and loved us,

and every one of us credit our success to some of those old school type teachers. And so check it out. Open phones at 888-825-5225 our question of the day comes from blinds.com we have a 100 satisfaction guarantee they do if you mismeasure you pick the wrong color they'll remake your window blinds free and you get free samples free shipping and with the new promos they run every month you'll save even more use the promo code ramsey to get the best possible deal. Today's question comes from Eric in South Dakota.

Is it advisable to enroll in a certification course during Baby Step 2? I'm interested in a 20-hour course which costs $500. This certification could improve my salary expectations by more than $5,000 a year as well as improving my resume if I were to shop the market. My company would reimburse me for the course upon completion without any explicit agreement to remain there for a specific period of time. I would just need the initial cash on hand. I know gazelle intensity means rice and beans and beans and rice,

so I wanted to get your thoughts on this scenario. Well, in this situation, Eric, this just seems like all upside, and you're going to get reimbursed. And it was 20 hours yeah do it 20 hours absence no brainer there's 20 months we'll talk about it yeah we we teach cash you have to cash flow things during the baby steps and and and so this is just another one of those things so i'd do whatever i had to do scrape sell whatever i'd come up with the cash change the budget a little bit and this is a very temporary uh expenditure and bust through it yeah crush it yeah don't don't don't hang around with this thing for two years and talk about it bust through it one month be done in a month and get

your money right back and then it's a no no harm no foul right that's right and then you've got an increased income and or the potential for an increased income i would do this as many times as you can do it. This kind of thing with certifications proves that what we tell young people all the time is the best possible investment you can make is in you if it's a wise investment. Now, what he's done there is he has said this is what it costs and this is what it gives back. So the net result for him is it costs zero at the end of the day. That's right. And he increases his income potential by $5, a year that's kind of no-brainer yeah it's absolutely do it you know and here's the thing we're seeing today in

this marketplace more and more opportunities to what they're called upskill and and but be smart about it you know there's a lot anytime you see you know a marketplace like this where it's easier to get upskilled you're also going to see frauds. And so my only caution would be do your homework, make sure it's a reputable opportunity, and that you can, as Dave has said, ROI that, get a return on that investment. Well, all education is that. I had this long discussion with our friend Mike Grove on his podcast the other day. I posted.

We ended up talking an hour because we're just so much alike. But all we were talking about was he really is upset about this idea that we consider education an investment. No, I'm not. He said, but he's saying that that's the con. Sure, it's the marketing pitch. And it is a part of the con. Yes. But it is.

It can be. It can be. And what I said is the part of the con is that it's always a good investment. It is an investment. But is it a bad one or a good one? Now, if you go spend $200,000 to get a degree in left-handed puppetry, then that's a bad investment. But if you go spend $500 and you get a degree, you up one of your certs, then you got a $5,000 return on that, and they give you your money back, too, then that infinite return then this is a good investment and so knowledge is always

an investment it's either a good investment or a bad investment does it pay you more than it costs you would be the good investment type uh but if all you learn how to do is um you know you know you've got seven degrees in philosophy and so you're a barista then that's a problem yeah and you're going to struggle with that and you're not going to get the return on investment not mad at you barista philosophy students but just let just saying uh you don't want to spend two hundred thousand dollars for the opportunity to draw someone else's coffee not a plan um and so and that's not poking fun it's poking fun at that not the individuals it's the system and how screwed up it is that we actually told people that that was a good idea yeah and that's what the whole movie uh the documentary that we did has been so popular uh by the way thank you

guys for all of the things we found out this morning won an an award. Yeah. So pretty cool. And who knew? Our future, up for a Webby. Is that what they call it? A Webby. Is that what that's called? That's what they call it. Yeah, okay. Well, you've got awards for everything.

One thing I want to add to this really quick, there's also on the edge of this marketing pitch that Dave was just talking about, is also this idea that if I get the degree, that all I have to do is largely send out the resumes and people are going to clamor for me. And that is not true. I just recently spoke on the campus of Vanderbilt just last week, doctoral students. And the number one question for me was, Ken, how do I actually get the gig I want? So don't forget that even with the doctorate or the master's degree, you are now going to have to compete. You've still got to. Training camp's over. Just a two on your belt you gotta win the game you gotta win you gotta beat the

competition and that's what uh we're seeing a trend now people are staying in degrees well if i get this degree well i didn't get a job now i gotta get another degree and um it can be valuable but remember uh even if you need it um you're still going to have to compete. It just occurred to me that what we told the whole generation was that you're in Willy Wonka's Chocolate Factory, and if you get the golden ticket, you get a free ride. That's what people think. I just sit back and wait for people. It's not Willy Wonka's golden ticket.

It's simply a conversation piece. And the knowledge that you got on the way to getting your degree, which Ro brought up an interesting point in that podcast. He said that we use the word degree. Everywhere else we use the word degree, it means a small increment. Oh, that's a great statement. You know, like a degree on a thermometer. If you change the degree from 72 to 73 degrees, no one notices.

You got a degree. No one noticed. It got a degree. No one noticed. It's a very interesting point. And we act like it's a promise of a better future. Well, it is always good to add knowledge. Oh, yeah. But useful knowledge is called wisdom. Yeah, but that better future has everything to do with what you do with knowledge.

Yeah, it's the better. It's useful. It's useful knowledge. It can be. It's useful knowledge. And the secret sauce to success, we told people, was a degree Yeah, it's the degree itself. Is it useful knowledge? It can be. Useful knowledge. And the secret sauce to success, we told people, was a degree, and it's not. The secret sauce to success is you. That's correct.

You. Yeah. Persistence. Integrity. Integrity. Continually learning. Persistence. Continual personal growth.

Integrity. Persistence. Hustle. Grind. Humility. You're not the answer to the equation. personal growth, integrity, persistence, hustle, grind, humility. You're not the answer to the equation. You're just the answer to your equation. No one really cares what you think because you've done nothing yet. Go do something and then have an opinion.

This is The Ramsey Show. so so Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Sydney is with us, and Sydney is in Phoenix, Arizona. It says on my screen, you're debt-free. Congratulations. Thank you so much. Way to go, kiddo. How much did you pay off?

I paid off $65,000 in 38 months. Good for you. Way to go, kiddo. How much did you pay off? I paid off $65,000 in 38 months. Good for you. Way to go. And making what kind of range of income during that three years and two months? In the three years, I started at $35,000, and I doubled my income during that time. To $70,000? Yes. Wow.

What do you do for a living? Yeah, I'm a sports reporter with usa today um i started a local paper and then worked my way up um to where i'm at currently right now and that all started with my debt-free journey three years ago when i was looking at the numbers trying to move into my own place and realized that i could not afford it or much of anything okay so the debt-free journey says i need to make more money, so you got after it. Yes. So I instantly started applying for new jobs and then land with the company that I am right now

and then have been there ever since. Way to go! Yeah, this journey has been a blessing in more ways than I can count. I'm so proud of you. What was the – how old are you? I am 27 years old. What was the debt? What kind of debt was the $65,000? So most of it was student loans. So $46,000 was student loans. I also, before the debt-free journey, I was leasing a car. So I turned that back in, got a used car, paid that off, student loans, and then some medical bills as well.

But majority of it was student loans. You rock, kiddo. What kind of used car did you get? I got a Toyota, or excuse me, a Nissan, a Nissan Sentra. All right. Nice car. Yeah, I love it. Yeah, good for you.

How's it feel to be free at 27? It feels great. At first, it did feel a little surreal just because I've been working towards this goal for so long. And, you know, in the beginning, it just seemed so unattainable or borderline impossible. But just working the steps every day, you know, of course, it was hard, but really just staying plugged in and reaching that goal just feels literally like such a huge relief such a huge weight off of my shoulders and i feel like it just couldn't have come at a more perfect time so i'm really really excited and super grateful yeah way to go way to go i'm proud of you so fun uh sydney i've got to ask you as a sports reporter you cover a lot of great athletes.

What is the parallel, the metaphor through the debt-free journey that also applies to champions in sport that you've noticed during your own journey? So right now I live in Phoenix, so covering a lot of the Phoenix Suns, we're doing really well. But I'm originally from California, so I will relate it to Kobe Bryant when he talks about that Mamba mentality. And even on the debt-free journey, how you say to be Gonzalo intent. So just every day waking up knowing that this day, even, you know, I worked two jobs during the whole time and, you know, my day started around five in the morning. So just getting up every day,

even if I was tired or didn't necessarily feel like it, just knowing that this day was for something greater and just having that mentality to just continue to go after it. So I would definitely say that it took a little bit of mama mentality to get where I am right now, additional to being gazelle intent. Way to go. Good for you. You're amazing.

You are a rock star man i'm so proud of you very very very well done who were your biggest cheerleaders um i would say i had the cheerleaders um with my friends and family but i do want to give a special shout out to my two friends duana and maurice they were the ones who actually lent me your book total money makeover and got me on this journey. And we ended up doing it together. So it was really, really such a blessing just to have someone my age doing the same journey on it. You know, when you see a lot of people really living their life or not making these sacrifices that we are, it was cool to have that support system on the same journey. We ended up being debt-free within a

couple weeks from each other, and you will actually be able to meet them soon. They are coming to see you and do their own debt-free stream. So yeah, they were a really big help during this time. What do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is? I would just say just first setting that goal. When I set my goal, like I said, it just seems so impossible. But once you set that goal, once you really sit down with the numbers and just work the baby steps, it's possible. So I would definitely say trust the process. That was the most important thing, just knowing that what you're saying is true and you'll get there. It just takes time and dedication and patience so definitely

trust the process is what i would tell everybody out there um even if you think that you can't do it just fake it till you make it and before you know it you'll be dead free well push through even if you don't know if you're going to make it that's that's different exactly way to go having so much faith to do it you You're an amazing young woman. I'm so proud of you. Very, very, very well done. Thank you. We've got a copy of Baby Steps Millionaires for you,

How Ordinary People Built Extraordinary Wealth, How You Can Too. That's the next chapter in your story. You'll be a millionaire before you know it at this rate. Well done, well done, well done. Also, another copy of Total Money Makeover. That way you can give it away and stir up a ruckus for somebody else. So, good stuff. Alright, it's Sydney in Phoenix, Arizona.

27 years old. Paid off $65,000 in 38 months, making $35,000 to $70,000. Doubled her income while she was doing it. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream! 3, 2, 1. I'm debt-free! I'm debt-free! Yeah! free scream three two one i'm that free

i love it yes very cool sharp young woman twice she said in that call that i trusted the process you hear that from a lot of athletes these days. Of course, she's obviously a sports journalist, but you hear that a lot of athletes across all walks of sports, and it is a beautiful way to describe the clear path, which are the baby steps. This is a process that works time in and time out. She said trust the process, trust the baby steps. It is a process. It is a process. And when you do it,

it works. Kelly's in Phoenix. Hi, Kelly. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi there. I'm so grateful to be on. Blessings to you both for all that you do and everything you put your hands to for fighting so hard to help people live free. Thank you. So I'm considering buying Hen you. So I'm considering buying an agency. So I have a career for 22 years, and I'm 51 years old. So I'm considering, I'm going to have to look at what it's going to look like when I just am just way too tired to be in my career. And so I was looking to buy a company. I just am just way too tired to be in my career. And so I was looking to buy a company,

and they're going to be giving me all the information I need. But the question I really have, because this is not something I've done before, so I need to figure out how to look for what the ROI is, how much to offer them. I don't know what that looks like. What type of agency? I'm sorry, what was that that was what type of agency i'm sorry what was that question what type of agency um it's an interpreting agency okay all right the language language agency gotcha okay cool um well a good rule of thumb is this, four to five times the net profits after everyone has been paid, including the manager. And so if the owner is working in the business and is not paying themselves out and creating the net profit, and then their only income is their net profit, you would insert a manager's salary and reduce the net profit by that much.

You see what I'm saying? Yes, I do. So if I wanted to buy that from Nashville and someone else run it for me, turnkey, with someone else operating it, and I'm not over there making all the decisions, there's a good general manager running the agency for me, what is the net profit then after I paid them? And if the owner's operating in there, that would be an extra expense that's not in the current P&L.

Does that make sense to you? Correct. Then your net profit times after that, your taxable income, times four would be a 25% rate of return times five would be a 20% rate of return. And you're going to want to make that at least on a small business because it's not going to be, it never turns out exactly like you think it's going to turn out. And so that's a high rate of return on a traditional investment, but a small business is a much more risky investment.

And so if the thing's making $100,000, it's worth $400,000 to $500,000. Max. Max. This is The Ramsey Show. Thank you. Our scripture of the day, Jeremiah 31.25. I will refresh the weary and satisfy the faint. Philip Brooks said, I do not pray for a lighter load but for a stronger back careful there that's the truth you'll get that one answered deborah's in gilbert arizona hi deborah welcome to the ramsey show thank you so much and thanks to your ministry my husband and i

are everyday millionaires times two way to go for five years we've been completely debt free my only regret is we were not gazelle intense sooner would have happened 10 years earlier well congratulations we're proud of you how can we help today well i thank you so i would like to gift our daughter by paying off her mortgage, and my husband is reluctant to do that. We have more than enough to do it without changing any of our situation whatsoever. I would just like to do it as a gift for our daughter. What's the balance on her mortgage? And I'm wondering about $130,000.

Okay. You obviously have that in cash out of your $2 million. And more. Okay. All right. How is she with money um she is very well um she does very very well and she's been nothing but a blessing to us her entire life is she single she is single she's 42 looking for mr right if you know one send him our way

okay all right why is your husband object um he doesn't he doesn't have an absolute reason he just thinks that we shouldn't um it isn't monetarily because we certainly can afford to do it and um he just just not knowing where this world is going in the direction it's going he's just reluctant to do so but he does he can't really put his finger on why. Okay. Well, people that are cut from the cloth that you guys are cut from, I'm one of you, Ken is too, we believe in hard work, we believe in sacrifice to win, and that's how you've won.

He's afraid he's going to steal some of that from her. Possibly. Yeah. I would guess. I mean, that would be a normal thing anyway. And I would say to pay it off anyway. Thank you. Now, here's why.

Let me add a little bit to it for his side of the equation, and we will make it fun for everyone i would ask her to sign a letter not a formal document but just a letter that you keep a copy of and she keeps a copy of that promises that she will never borrow money in her life ever for anything if you do this and there is no question that she would do that when she finds mr, if he's a financial planner, we may have an argument. She actually quit a job at a bank as a teller because they were required to sell so many credit cards a day. Yeah, well, Mr. Wright could change her mind. I want to just put that out there. So I just want something in my file that she has in her file, and it was a little bit formal enough that it sticks in her memory solid,

that Dad and Mom paid off my house, and I promised I i'd never borrow money again so we really just can't borrow money if you're going to date me i just can't do it um i'm never borrowing money again and the reason i want her to do that is so that she's going to because she's going to inherit five to ten million dollars because your money's going to double or double two or three more times before you die. And when she inherits all of that money, we want to keep her from screwing it up. And if she never borrows money again and she's only in her 30s, she's going to be a multimillionaire on her own. And so this is for her. It's not for you.

And it is for your husband because here's the sale to your husband if she agrees to do that and then she invests a house payment in addition to what she's already investing and she becomes wealthier than you earlier than you uh you have literally changed your family tree with zeros on the end and i think what you're saying hits the nail on the head i think to some extent on his point, because I think he is concerned that she might do that down the road, but I don't believe that she would. But putting it in writing prevents that. It's not a contract, and it's just a communication piece. It's like an oath.

I swear an oath. It's the debt-free oath. You know, that kind of a thing. Yeah, it's an emotional thing. I would love to do this for you because I know what it will do for you, but it won't do it for you unless you stay debt-free. And so part of me doing it for you is you sign the debt-free oath or whatever. I mean, make it corny.

I don't care. I love that. Deborah and Dave, I thought I heard you say something to the effect of well the way this world is right now he's not sure which makes me also think that there's a little bit of he's worried that uh spending this money could hurt them dave i hear a little bit there's no chance of that yeah they're in good shape yeah you've done well yeah you're in good shape i'm so proud of y'all. And, yes, I would do this.

We've had a lot of everyday millionaires, baby steps millionaires, pay off their kids' houses. But you don't want to pay off a kid's house that's going, you know, they're doing cocaine. And so that gives them extra money for their cocaine, right? You don't want to fund misbehavior indirectly, right? And so it could be financial cocaine. It could be actual cocaine. But, I mean so it could be financial cocaine. It could be actual cocaine. But, I mean, it could be whatever. So if they're out there spending money like it's water, like they're in Congress or something,

then we're not going to give them more to misspend. That's just an enabler. That's not a blessing. But in your case, there's every reason here to do this, and I would do it. And it helps you emotionally to go, okay, this is the last step of me changing my family tree permanently. Very cool. Frost is on the line in Flint, Michigan. Hi, Frost.

How are you? Hey, Dave. How are you? Thank you for taking my call. Sure. What's up? I had a career question for you. My wife is 24.

I'm 30. We got married in January. Congratulations. Thank you. Together we make about $82,000. We both work in sort of the political part of the economy. And as I said, I'm making about $40,000, and I just didn't know what sort of advice you would have for me in pursuing other careers that could expand my income earnings.

So are you in campaign side of politics or working for a government entity? Campaign side. Yeah. Yeah. I used to do that, by the way. And so, you know, you're not going to have a whole bunch of earning potential as you move into the consulting side of that business, which those folks can make very good money. You know, I think you've got to decide what is it that you really want to do? You know, do you want to step into more political and government work? Or do you

want to eventually go to the private sector? Or are you in a situation right now where you're just going, Ken, I need to make more money? What's the more urgent question that you have? I just want to make more money. Okay. Well, so right now, if we're looking to just make more money, I tell folks to focus on the talent side of things. I teach there's three elements that every human has, and that's where we get ideas on what kind of work is really meaningful and purposeful. Talent, what we do best, passion, work we love, mission results that we want our work to produce. For you in this situation, if you're trying to get out of debt or save some money and begin to make a transition, focus on talent alone. So you've got skills and you've got some experience that are transferable at the age of 30, correct? Yes, sir. Absolutely. So we're looking for, okay, I look at my skill set and here's a fun little

exercise homework for you so you have a lot of confidence in this decision i want you to just write out what you think are your top five to seven skills actual skills and work you can also include people skills in that list and then i want you to look at the experience that campaign politics has afforded you and write down your top experience that you think is the most transferable to other parts of the workplace economy and then begin to look at, okay, that gives me a really clear indicator in what I do best, which is what I'm most marketable for. And I'm looking at job descriptions in Flint, Michigan that line up with that. Now, I'm also going to give you, I get clear career assessment, hang on the line.

Kelly's going to give you a link to this assessment. It's a 25-minute assessment. It's going to allow you to go deep on talent, passion, and mission, give you a purpose statement, which becomes a 35,000-foot view of the world at work, and you can look at multiple jobs that allow you to be on purpose. But I'd start with that talent side of things, because what this is going to do for him, Dave, is identify jobs where he's qualified, hot job market,

increase that income immediately, and put that to work in the baby steps while he's getting clear on a long-term play. Kelly, also give him a copy of Paycheck to Purpose, Ken's best-selling book. Get Clear Assessments now blessed over 20,000 people have taken that. So if you want to know what you're up for, sign up for that.

It's a good deal. Love it. Way to go. That puts us out of the Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, folks, Ken Coleman here. Did you know The Ramsey Show is one of the most popular podcasts in the world? Get your daily dose of advice on life and money. Check out all of our shows

from The Ramsey Network wherever you listen to podcasts.