The Ramsey Show - App - The Federal Student Loan Program Is an Epic Failure! (Hour 2)

Episode Date: July 24, 2019

Anthony ONeal, Student Loan Crisis, Debt Tools to get you started: Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE   Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

Music Music Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Senator Elizabeth Warren officially introduced a bill

to do away with student loan debt. Joining me at the next break will be Ramsey personality Anthony O'Neill, who talks more to college students than all senators put together and talks more to real people about what's really going on with student loans than anybody out there. We'll be talking about this a little bit more as we get down into the details and so forth of what's out there. So her official act today is to introduce a bill to the senate that would cause student loan debt to all be forgiven and college to all be free did you hear me say that

you know that's what that's what it says um i don't understand how things are free somebody's paying for it so it's not free okay so um classic politician move right so socialism is good the government should provide you free college and the debt that you signed up for should be erased completely and what's not erased under the plan should be bankruptable you file bankruptcy according to the new law that she is trying to pass. Canceling debt. Reforming the student loan system that's in place.

And making college free for all. Now, Elizabeth Warren, I've met her many years ago, and she's brilliant. And if I were on her political staff, which there's not a snowball's chance that that would actually occur for multiple reasons, but if I were there and if I actually believed in my left-wing, extreme left-wing views, that the majority of Americans would be excited about socialized universities, and the majority of Americans would be so thrilled with their student loan debts being forgiven that they would not think about the implications of that and would rush to the voting booth to vote for me. If I really believed that and I were on her staff, which is apparently so, obviously,

right, then this is a brilliant political move. It is an absolutely brilliant political move. It is an absolutely brilliant political move. If you start with the presupposition that it's going to, that everyone is going to think this is it. Finally, someone in government gets it. Finally, you're going to fix my problems from Washington, D.C. And enough people believe that this is going to work and that this is the proper way to run a nation. If I really believed that socialism is best,

then this is a brilliant political move. It's absolutely brilliant. The bill has zero chance of passing. So never fear America, right? But as a political move, she has driven a stake in the ground and says, I'm here for the little man. I'm the one that's going to bring socialism to you. I've got, you know, we're going to give you free health care, free cell phones, free cars, free. Everything's free in socialism until you find out that it has to be paid for.

And if you believe that is the best way to operate a nation, which is actually no data point to back you up, because there's no socialistic nation that has prospered, none, nowhere near like the United States of America has. So socialism has not been a proven economic system that works. But if you believe it anyway, because you just don't care about anything, and I just want out, and I just think the whole thing's evil, and I want someone to break it, and you believe that,

then this is a brilliant political move because she knows and her aides know that this bill does not have a chance of passing but it makes her the hero standing up for the socialized hipster little man whatever you want to call this person that feels the burn right and that wants to be in on this stuff now we're going to talk about student loan debt and we're going to talk about this bill and we're going to talk about this with anthony o'neill after this coming break and we'll get into it but you know just from a political viewpoint and i'm not i don't do politics i don't give a rip because i think they're a waste of time but as a political move as a strategist this is going to post her up as being the hero of the extreme left-wing disenfranchised person who believes in socialism

she is the hero of that because this bill's not going to pass there's zero chance that they can get enough people in the senate or in the house either one to just completely do away i mean when you forgive all this debt, you understand somebody's got to pay it. Okay? You don't have to pay the debt, but the bank is owed the debt, and the government has promised to guarantee it.

So she just increased, if you do this, the federal deficit by another trillion dollars. So it's not ever free. Margaret Thatcher said, you know know the problem with socialism is eventually you run out of other people's money and you know thomas jefferson is supposed to have said and there's some dispute about this a government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take everything you have? This is the problem. Because this is a zero-sum game.

The money just didn't just freaking disappear and evaporate. The debt didn't just evaporate when you forgive it. Those banks are going to get paid. You're not going to just tell banks that a trillion dollars that's on your books is worth zero after the bank signed up with a contract with the federal government. It's a federally insured student loan. So the government is going to increase their spending by a trillion dollars. So by the way, if you get forgiven the student loan debt, the government picks it up oh who pays

the government oh all the rest of us you and me baby you and me those of us that pay taxes which is 48 of americans that pay federal income taxes the other 52 don't pay any federal income taxes so those of us that are taxpayers we are going to be helping you out because of Elizabeth Warren if this passes. Are high health care costs getting you down? Are you confused trying to navigate your options? Do you wish you could find an affordable, biblical solution to your health care costs? Based on New Testament principles, Christian Health Care Ministries, or CHM, helps Christian families, churches, and ministries join together as the body of Christ to share their major health care costs.

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Christian Healthcare Ministries is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live. Anthony O'Neill, Ramsey personality and a teenage expert, speaking in high schools and colleges all over America for the past three years, probably has more data in his brain from actually having dealt with real people out there than all the senators put together more knowledge of what's really going on in the student loan world and that's why i thought we'd bring him in and spend a little time talking about this and you and i were talking at the break anthony that this uh elizabeth warren um bill is really a political posturing move and it stands no chance of passing i mentioned that in the last so it's a it's a brilliant political pot move because it makes her look like the hero to

the guy who feels overwhelmed and feels like you can't do it but then they're gonna make college free now anytime you make the government pay for something i want you to think this okay government provided services think about those the dmv is this exciting to you is this excellence is this is this going to increase the quality of education no no no it's not it's definitely And so, you know, privatizing or government or socializing rather the university systems by paying for everything, because if you pay for something or you don't feel like you've got to pay the loan back, either one, you make different choices. And you and I have both had multiple experiences where we're dealing with someone after the fact that they've made a mess or as they're getting ready to make the mess. They're 18 years old and we're looking in their face and they're getting ready to say, you know, I want to go to this college because I think the homes in that town are pretty. You know, and stuff like that. You've run into that a lot, haven't you?

I run into it absolutely a lot, Dave. Just recently, I ran into a young lady, and she said, I want to go to this college because they say this is the best college for me to go to to become a lawyer. And she racked up 285 000 with the debt and i asked her dave i said hey did you do any research like did you look in state did you look up any other programs because yes to be a lawyer you got to go to college but did you do any research she said no she said her dad and her friend said that's the best school to go to she's making 45 000 as a public defender right now and i'm like so you're nearly 300 000 in debt and you're only making less than 50 000 and you probably could have got that

that degree this this program from a lot cheaper and she says i wish i would have known what should i do now so what you got to pay it off yeah i mean that's that's the main thing yeah so in your mind if you're dealing with teens that are out there the fact that this is bouncing around even though it's not going to get passed the fact that it's being used as a pawn in a political campaign a presidential political campaign uh this this issue yeah uh is being used what's that doing to the mindset of that teenager that's out there it's ruining the mindset because they're thinking hey actually i can go ahead no consequences to my decision exactly so i can make any decision i want i can go rack up all this debt hey you know what

and the government's going to forgive me and and i and it frustrates me because i'm like no if you sign that piece of paper saying hey i'm going to going to do this, then you technically owe it. I don't even want you to even consider that. Don't consider a loan. Don't even consider what the government can do. You take ownership of your decisions and you start saying, you know what? Forget this. I'm not going to borrow any money.

I'm not going to wait on the government. I'm not going to wait on the White House. I'm going to get in my house and I'm come up with a plan on how i can do this myself and ask my parents hey what can you do and if you don't have the money i'm telling kids go to community college start off there but stop waiting and stop looking at the government for this because it's crippling the minds of our young people and even our parents because i'm hearing parents say you know what this looks like it's going to come around and they're going to forgive this so go to this school go to the best, and we're just going to just hope that the government is going to just wipe off student loan debt. Yeah.

And, of course, when they wipe it off, that means the taxpayer is picking up the bill. Exactly. And you put a billion or a trillion dollar drain on the economy, which could really, really slow economic growth or actually destroy it. Destroy it. So the idea is just uh number one it's not gonna pass we go back to that so we don't have to go melodramatic and flop our arms and all this kind of stuff but i think the damage is that when a political candidate is this manipulative and it is manipulation because she has to be bright enough to know

it's not going to pass the senate can't now she might she must really believe and her staff must really believe that there's enough extreme left-wingers are going to love her for this that it's going to get her voted into the white house yeah and if she rides that wave in she must think there's a whole bunch of those folk um i don't think there's data to back that up i think they've got a wrong set of assumptions but if you really believe that this is a beautiful political move. It is brilliant. It is the downside, though, of the of of a political candidate putting a bill out there that has no chance of passing to make themselves look good. But it changes the mindset of innocent people to start doing stupid decisions. Yeah, we don't want that. And here's the here's the truth, Dave.

You and I both know this. Do we have a student loan crisis today? Yes. Does it need to be fixed? Yes. Which is why we're trying to help parents up front to even avoid it. Yeah. And that is the huge issue.

And truthfully, if somebody was going to pass a bill, the first bill that has to be passed is say student loan debt is harmful. Yes. It's a crisis. It's destroying our culture. The first thing you should do is just end it. There you go, Dave. Just end the program. End it.

End it. You know, we're saying opioids are bad. We should end addiction. We should have programs to end it, not increase the addiction. And not just end the student loan, but then also make, I believe, more affordable and even free community college. First two years free in every state like what we have here in the state of tennessee if you work hard in high school you get good grades or you have some some extra stuff that we can apply for hey your first two years

are going to be for free but just to sit here and say we're going to wipe it all that doesn't help us at all especially when it's not going to happen now and even those community colleges are not free yeah they're free to the student but the taxpayer in that state or the lottery loser in that state because that's what funds most of its lottery losses yeah uh it is what funds it and so you know and as we know the most lotteries are played in lower income zip codes so this is poor people sending middle class and rich people people, kids to college, playing the lottery. But still, somebody's paying for it. Yes, sir. That's what it amounts to.

That money goes into the lottery coffers. The losers go in there. They pay out the winner, in quotes, which is a small percentage of the take. There we go. And the rest of it goes into the state budget for education, and then you end up with free community colleges, which we have that exact same thing in our own state of Tennessee. And, you know, at least they're doing something good with it. But it's still a negative drain on the economy. It is.

It's a negative drain on there. So, yeah, you take advantage of what's there, though. If you're the individual and not worried about the macro part of this, you're the individual and you got a student going to college they can go to school debt-free you've got a book coming out in the fall called debt-free degree there we go yeah and it can be and you know there's it's a whole book proving you can do it and exactly what to do step by step so that you can go to school debt-free and not have to be in this discussion personally now you can be in it politically you can be in the arguments you can discuss you know left wing versus right wing or socialism versus capitalism you can have these arguments and fun you know fun debates and all with your friends or however you want to do that and in the voting

booth if you want to i don't care whatever you want to do there but uh for you individually don't fall for this crap you can't fall for it dave you know one of the things i'm so passionate about you know this about me is i won't get involved with the whole political stuff i i really care we care about the individual and i believe you know our president should be talking about how can we help educate our young people to make better financial decisions which is why we have the debt-free degree book coming out because you're right, it can. And it will require some work.

You're going to have to spend some time looking up scholarships, preparing for the ACT and the SAT, and getting to the right classes, and going out and doing some hard work. But it's worth it to get the free, not the free education, but the pay-for-you education. So, yeah, and you guys are working on some pretty cool stuff that you've been pulling some audio and some video together on. There's going to be some cool stuff coming on the podcast front. Yeah. And even on the video front on some things happening out there in the culture. There's a whole other side to this movement that we're involved in, which is working with you guys.

So you're not a victim of this. Let me just tell you, they're not going to help you folks from Washington. Nope. It's all posturing. It's all politics. Business as usual there. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. You ever thought about when the government builds a high-rise subsidized housing area? Free housing.

Free housing. It's a brand new building. It's in great shape. It's maintained and operated by a government agency. People move in that are struggling. And they have a free place to live, free to them. The taxpayer picks up the bill. How does that work? how's it turn out seven years later

a decade later let's go back to that brand new high rise there's four high rises in a quadrant in a major metro area. They're brand new. They're in perfect condition. They met all the government standards when the contractor finished. When you walked in, it was the smell of new paint. Everything was in perfect condition, plus or minus a punch list. And folks who were down on their luck were given free housing to them provided by the taxpayer you and i paid the bill and they move into that and there's a whole series of families living in

these four towers in this quadrant in this major metro area when we visited a decade later it's been maintained by the government and it was a program to help people. A program with good intentions. When we visited a decade later, what has happened in that quadrant with those four towers? You know, don't you? It became a war zone. The place is virtually torn down. Eventually has to be torn down.

Because the government cannot keep up the maintenance. Because no one has any pride of ownership. No one's thrilled to be there. It's an economic prison. And basically, this brand-new building becomes a new slum a decade later. So what you've got to look at when you socialize something is does it work it was good intentioned and i don't i don't want anybody to be homeless i'm here i'm about helping people i'm not a cold-hearted jerk that thinks people i live on the street and you know i'm not a cold-hearted jerk that thinks people ought to live on the street. I'm not a Pharisee.

I believe in grace, lots of it. I need a lot of grace personally. I believe in outrageous generosity. We give away millions and millions of dollars to help people out of our Ramsey Family Foundation in all kinds of different settings. And so I believe in doing all of that. I believe in all kinds of different settings. And so I believe in doing all of that. I believe in all that. But you've got to ask yourself on these questions,

does it work? Does it work? And when you look at that, when you look at housing, when you socialize housing for the underprivileged, it doesn't work. And if you want to do that to your universities, you want to do that to your health care, it doesn't work.

Well, in Norway, Norway has the GDP of Atlanta. It's not, I mean, Atlanta has more economic production. Dallas has more economic production than Norway. So, yeah, you can take little tiny countries that have gas reserves all around their shores and natural gas reserves all around their shores and they're selling the crud out of oil and gas and natural gas in order to fund their socialism and it's a tiny little example and they look prosperous but they're propped up and they're uber small when you try to do this on the scale of something like america it's a different scale and it just doesn't work you guys it just doesn't work we have to find ways that people increase their dignity

not to increase their dependence on government. That they increase their options, not increase their dependence on government. That they increase their initiative, not increase their dependence on government. And so that'll be the difference in the Ramsey organization versus a political solution to the student loans. The only political solution that I would tell you that I do believe in for the student loans is you need to stop them. You need to stop making the loans. The government needs to stop guaranteeing student loans. Because they're not, it's not working.

You're harming your citizens. It's not working. Why in the world would Congress continue to fund programs that are bringing harm? It's not working. The federally insured student loan program is a plague. It is an epic failure. And somebody's going to have to send a note to Congress and tell them because apparently they've got their head stuck up their assumptions and don't know what's going on out here in

the real world. Someone needs to let the House and the Senate know it's a plague on your land. There's an epic failure occurring right under your noses, and you guys are signing the bill every year to renew the stupid thing. I mean, you have the keys in your hand to lock the door. Lock the door. Stop it. Now, that is a political solution and then we can just have a discussion about what to do with the 1.6 trillion and is there an appropriate place to give some relief to some of it maybe

maybe certainly not wholesale like is being proposed by senator warren it's just not going to pass but you know this is a this is a thing we have to talk. It's a conversation we have to have in this country. But you can't have it with political posturing. Let me tell you what I have to gain by talking about this personally. Zip. Zip. I'm not asking for your vote.

If you don't want to listen to the show because you think i'm a right-wing crazy person or something then flip the channel man you you know take some you don't have to expend about 25 calories to reach your finger over the button and push it and and i'm done that's fine walk away i'm good with that i'm cool with that. So I have nothing to benefit. I'm pissing off a whole bunch of you by talking about this. I'm messing with some of you. But some of you need to be pissed off. Some of you need to have your horrible critical thinking skills challenged. Because you don't have any.

Some of you need to actually have an original thought that didn't come from Fox News or CNN or the political talking points of your party. You need to actually stop and think about what some of these morons in Washington are saying and go, well, that doesn't work. That doesn't work. I don't want a university system that looks like the DMV. That doesn't work. I don't want a university system that looks like the DMV. That doesn't work. Free college!

Is that not appealing to the dumbest portion of our culture? The dumbest portion of our population are the only ones that got to believe that. And if you believe that, I just called you dumb. It's not free, you you goob somebody's got to pay for it that housing is not free you goob somebody's got to pay for it oh and by the way it didn't work those poor people that were struggling that we wanted to help so desperately didn't end up getting helped they They now live in a slum. Government owned and operated a decade after it was brand new.

Don't they? Did they really get helped? No, if they really got helped, I wouldn't be talking about it. You have to think about when has government run something that we all stand back and go, well, we're really proud of the efficiency of that operation. I think we can say never. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Daniel is with us in California. Hey, Daniel, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave.

Thanks a lot for taking my call. Sure. What's up? Congrats on the new office as well. Thank you. So, yeah, so just to give you a bit of my background i uh one year ago i moved to to america and i live in silicon valley i work for a big tech company and that being said i would like to have some advice on what to consider if i should be investing my time

and effort and my money and everything and maybe staying here and buying a house here, or perhaps considering moving after a few years after saving a lot of money and just move out to a different state or something like that. Because, as you know, just a basic small home here costs $1.5 million. Sure. Oh, yeah. Silicon Valley is very expensive. No question about it. Actually, they have a lot of problems because there's not any affordable housing for workers who do entry-level stuff in the area.

So they're having to bus people in, as you know. It's kind of a wicked, weird real estate market. So what is your long-term plan as far as your immigration? Yeah, we plan to stay here in the country for sure. Okay. And you're able to do that with your work visa and the process that you're doing and so forth, right? Yes, that is correct. Okay, because I don't want you to buy a house and then suddenly have to move back home, that kind of thing.

Where are you from? What country? Right. I'm from Italy. Okay, cool. Well, welcome. Good to have you. Thank you.

So I think what you want to do is you want to say, all right, number one, when you buy a home, it needs to be on a payment that is no more than a fourth of your take-home pay. You need to be debt-free. Are you debt-free? Yes, I am. I'm actually on Baby Step number 3B. Good. Okay, so you're working for your down payment now, and once you've got that, if you want to buy, what do you make? What's your household income? So currently, it's just me working because of the

visa situation, and my income is, so I have a, it's split into three different areas, but my normal salary is $170 a year. Then I basically can potentially double that with bonuses and stocks per year. Wonderful. Well done. What do you do? I'm a software engineer. Excellent. Good for you.

Okay. Well, you're obviously making a ton of money and you live in a very expensive area so you're going to put down a big down payment with a big income and you know you're going to have a 15 year payment fixed or a 15 year fixed rate mortgage where the payment's no more than a fourth of your take-home pay but i think all that's doable with the numbers you're giving me you know when you talk about a million and a half dollar house, but that's doable in your situation. Now, then the question is, once you bought that house, do you want to sit there and make $350,000 a year in Silicon Valley

and live in that market? Is that where you want to live? Is that where you want to have your life, your family, your marriage, everything? Or do you want to live somewhere else and be a software engineer in Tennessee or Texas or some of the other tech quadrants that are out there uh where people uh you know that are different environments economically for sure and so there's no right or wrong answer it's where you want to be if you don't think you're going to be in an area but one or two years i would not buy a house but if you say all right as long as things

keep going like they're going we're gonna sit right here i like this plan and i like silicon it's beautiful by the way beautiful area you live in and um so you know if you enjoy that and that's where you want to be that's fine i got no issue with that but just keep your income or keep your debts down don't have debts and have a plan to get your house paid for. The numbers have extra zeros on them in your case, but the principles don't change. Hey, thanks for the call. Interesting discussion. Eli is with us in Michigan.

Hi, Eli. How are you? Good. Pleasure to talk to you, Dave. You too. What's up? So I'm a senior year, or I'm a senior at a private business institution, and I am currently working a full-time job.

I am wondering if it is worth it to cut my pay in half to take an internship. What would be the benefit? A better job offer when I'm done. Okay. Why? That company that does the internship might give you a job offer? Yeah, potentially. I think I would have better job offers to different companies if I have a stronger resume in the field that I'm going into. I'm also paying cash for my tuition.

Good for you. So that pays a big factor. So what is your cash for my tuition. Good for you. So that's, you know, pays a big factor. So what is your degree in and what's your field you're moving into? My degree is in finance, looking to go into corporate finance. I'm in sales right now. I do sales for AT&T. Good for you. Okay.

All right. So you're getting a degree in finance, an undergraduate degree from where? What's the name of it? It's Northwood University it it's northwood university it's a private school here in michigan good okay cool and and so uh then the question is are you more marketable because you've had an internship or not uh in the finance field probably not probably doesn't matter much okay um so you you don't think it'd be worth my time to take the pay cut? I don't think it'd be worth the pay cut.

What do you make now? I make about $50 a year. Okay. So the question is, would you make $25,000 more in the next couple of years because you did this internship? I don't think so. Okay. I mean, if you said over two years you have to make 12.5 a year extra because of an internship on your resume nah not a chance if we want to amateurize it over five

years and say okay you know it's five thousand dollars a year probably not even then i i don't i mean i think you could talk to some potential employers and go okay how much more would you pay me if i had an internship? Or how much more likely would you be to hire me at your pay rate? And so I can't get a job without an internship. I just don't think that world has that much requirement for it. It's much more common that people co-op and do internships, and they're much more important in the engineering field, the architectural field,

some of those kinds of things things than it is in business. In finance, most of the time, you know, you're just taking an entry-level position, and, you know, you're trying to get your foot in the door, and you're going to move up from there. So, no, I don't think you're going to make your money back. I think you make too good of money right now. I don't know if you're going to make 50 grand coming out with a degree in finance i'm not sure you're gonna beat your at&t job you might but uh uh it's not gonna be a bunch of them lining up to do that so that that's you know no i i personally wouldn't do that but talk if you want to confirm that talk to some potential employers and just call them and just go you know call the hr guy at such and such that you want to confirm that, talk to some potential employers and just call them and just go, you know, call the HR guy at such and such that you want to work for.

Go, hey, I'm considering this. What would you recommend? And am I going to make more? Have I got a much higher probability of being hired? Either one as a result of giving up $25,000. You're walking away from $25,000. In other words, you're writing a check for $25,000. What are you getting for the check?

And what are you getting for that? And I don't think it's going to ROI. I really don't. I think you're going to get your return on investment, which, of course, you have studied. Hey, thank you for the call. We appreciate you joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. In case you haven't heard yet, our brand new Financial Peace Live event is debuting this fall.

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