The Ramsey Show - App - The First Ever Family Business Theme Hour! (Hour 3)

Episode Date: August 8, 2019

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Going to do something we've never done this hour before. We're going to do a family business theme hour. Now, we've done small business theme hours, and we've done business and leadership theme hours, but we're going to talk exclusively about family business,

privately held, owned and operated. It could be a small, ultra-small business. It could be a big one. I don't care. It's family-owned, family-run, and you've got questions about family business. That's what we're going to do. The phone number is 888-825-5225. Maybe you work in a family business.

Maybe you own one. Maybe you're a family member in a business, but you don't get to make the shots. Call the shots. Maybe you're the one calling the shots, and you don't like what's happening. Any of that's there, and we would love to have you join us this hour. We're going to talk about family business. If you didn't know, family business is more enduring than publicly traded companies. Privately held, family-owned businesses represent 54% of our economy.

And they last, on average, 10 years longer than publicly traded companies. They have a better rate of survival. But this idea that, oh, the third generation screws up everything, the data doesn't back up that mythology. There's plenty of third generation screw-ups, but there's plenty of them working for publicly traded companies too. So that doesn't enter into it usually. Usually what happens is businesses fail because they don't keep up with the times.

They don't change. They don't morph. They don't get better. They don't grow. They don't install good business practices. It has nothing to do with the generational aspects of the family and the business, or it has very little to do with it. Oftentimes, the new generation coming in actually does help the business succeed because they'll bring fresh, new, cutting-edge ideas and looks at the business model. So family business is kind of America's quiet, secret weapon.

Our economy is, by and large, driven by family businesses. I own and operate a family business. My son-in-law works here, and all three of my children in one method or another. I'm 58. They're all right around the 30-year mark, give or take a little bit, and have been here almost 10 years. And so we've learned a lot about family business. We've been studying family business. If you didn't know, you can actually get degree in family business. There are family business associations. There's lots of writing on family businesses, but just no one talks about it.

All we hear is never work with family. Well, that's just not true. Never work with stupid family would be true. And never work with your crazy family. That would be true. And we've all got stupid or crazy somewhere in the family. You just don't let them in your business, right? It's like never work with a friend.

Of course you want to work with friends, as long as everybody that's in the game can be, you know, performing and doesn't misbehave and doesn't come at the thing with an entitlement mentality. So running a business is hard. A lot of decisions to make, people problems to solve, payrolls to meet, customers to serve, and you add family in the mix, you got another layer of drama and things

you got to deal with. So that's what we're going to talk about this hour. Family Business Theme Hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225. I've done it, I've studied it, and we're here to help you work your way through it. And I am beyond thrilled to announce that we're hosting our first ever full-day family business session here in Nashville on November the 8th. We have a very, very small family business event that we're going to do just to allow a few of you to come in, and we're going to start talking about this subject more formally than we ever have because we've had so many people in the Entree Leadership brand want to know more about the details of how

to run their family business. If you want to learn more about this particular event on November the 8th, text FAMILYBUSINESS to 44222. One phrase, no spaces. FAMILYBUSINESS to 44222. Or you can call in and talk to our team, get our Entree Leadership team on the phone. They can help you with this. We're going to be teaching one of the Entree Leadership Master Series, and then we're adding this as an optional last day. And you don't have to come to the whole Master Series to come to this one day,

or if you come to the Master Series, you don't have to come to the family business last day. But the last day, that's when we're doing this, attached to that event. Dean is with us in North Carolina. Hi, Dean. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. How are you? Better than I deserve.

What's up? Same with me. Family business, second generation is me, and we are 25-plus years old. from a business standpoint and went fairly poorly from a relational, emotional standpoint, the damage of which is still there. And I think Maxwell says you're not a success until you have a successor. I have no successor, but obvious successor currently in the business. And I have three children. You're 25? The old, sir. Are you, did you say you're 25? No, the business is 25 years. Oh, how old are you? I am 51. 51. Okay. And what happened when your dad transferred to you that was rocky? You know, Dave, there's a lot of that that I'm not 100% sure. I think the challenge was that he really nowhere for him to go. And so that struggle left us, you know, haggling over who was in charge, even when I was in charge.

And, you know, he had nothing outside of business he created a fantastic business that poured his life into it it was his life it was who who he is yeah how long ago was that and he finally retired in july of last year. Oh, wow. So he transferred ownership to you but stuck around. Yeah, we had a transition over time, over a length of time. And so that part was fairly well documented. It was just the emotional piece of that. It's very difficult for that founder to let go. The first generation to the second generation is the hardest one, the hardest transition emotionally. Well, hang on.

I want to talk this through with you for your next generation, your succession question. Hang on through the break, and we'll keep talking. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. We've been voted one of the best places to work in Nashville 11 times. You want to know how we do it? Well, our team has been using LinkedIn jobs for years to find the best people from all over the country to come and help us change lives. Think about it. LinkedIn has more than 600 million active members. I'm talking about people who come to LinkedIn to make connections, grow their careers, and discover new job opportunities. In fact, 90% of LinkedIn users are open to new opportunities,

but not actively scanning job boards. This means LinkedIn Jobs gives you access to an entirely different demographic. Don't wait. One hire can change the direction of your company. Post a job today at linkedin.com slash Ramsey and get $50 off your first job post. That's linkedin.com slash Ramsey. Terms and conditions apply. It's a family business theme hour. We're talking family business. If you want to discuss your situation, this is your time.

The phone number is 888-825-5225. On November the 8th, we're going to be doing a full day of family business teaching and discussion. First time we've ever done this. We're tagging this on the end of an Entree Leadership Master Series week. You can come to the whole week and include this day, or you can just come to this day if you want. You want to know more about it? Text the word family business to 44 222 talking with dean in north carolina 51 in a 25 year old business just concluded transitioning from his dad to him and now he's trying to look towards the future how

he creates the next transition and so so about how far we got. How old are your kids, Dean? 25, 21, and 19. And none of them have any interest in being in the business or in the business? The none currently in. Some preliminary discussions with the oldest that's in the business world already today. And, you know, honestly, if you think about him in particular, I wouldn't be able to find anyone smarter or more loyal.

I am just being transparent, just scared to have that conversation and not sure that any upside is worth the potential downside. And so my question is, and it appears done it successfully, what are the guardrails and how do you start that discussion and what do you put in place to protect the most important thing, which is the relationship you have while trying to grow your business, you know, for the next 10 to 25 years? Well, no family business is more functional than the family is. So whatever level of dysfunction is in your relationship with your oldest child is going to be the same level of dysfunction there. And so, you know, it has to start at home, in other words.

And so not picking on your dad, but part of the reason for the struggle in that transition was he struggled. And so, you know, he had too much of his identity tied up into it. And a typical founder, I'm a founder. Most of us founders are stubborn. We're hard-headed. That's how we found stuff. That's how we begin things. But it also extrapolates over.

But generationally, the second to the third is an easier emotional transition what we have fought to do and i have to fight myself when i'm doing this as well just to be transparent is i have to stay above my own little personal feelings and say what's good what's best for the family and what's best for the business and and what's best for the business. And if I put those two things in front of my personal self-interest, I usually can get my self-interest met as well. But we just started talking about succession about 10 years ago, and as we started talking about it, the ground started moving under my feet,

and I was highly uncomfortable. We started talking about making Dave less important, and it wasn't long before he was less important and uh it's it's it's an uncomfortable process to do that to yourself you know so what you've got to do is is talk this through there cannot be a sense of entitlement that's guardrail number one so any family member does not get special privileges. On the contrary, they have the opposite. They have to work twice as hard and be twice as smart just to be respected because people are going to assume they're getting crap handed to them.

Okay? So there has to be an opposite entitlement, opposite of entitlement. And we talk to the Ramsey kids about that around here all the time. When they come to work in the business, they don't get paid as an owner because they're not an owner. They get paid for the job they're doing. So Rachel Cruz, as a Ramsey personality, has the same pay schedule on royalties on a book sale that the other Ramsey personalities have. So she may or may not sell more books than one of them, depending on which book it is and that kind of a thing. And she gets paid the same pay scale going to speak somewhere,

or gets the same percentage taken out of a speaking fee for her as the other ramsey personalities here so she doesn't get a different pay scale because she's not an owner and so that you know no entitlement everything's real clear and then it's all performance based and you know if you're going to move up and become a leader and run this business someday, and we're going to hand the keys, you've got to prove that to everyone around here and not just to me. How many people in your operation? Eighteen. Okay. And what type of business is it?

It's retail. It's related to convenience store business. Perfect. Okay. All right. Well, I mean, your son or daughter, whoever it is, the oldest one coming in, retail it's related to um convenience store business perfect okay all right well i mean your son just your son or daughter whoever it is the oldest one coming in has just got to they got to bring it they got to be a game and they got to be humble and learn hungry humble and smart you know what pat lincione says and and there's no sense of entitlement. And then we lay out a plan for beginning to hand over to them the leadership of the business and later the ownership of the business gradually as they prove themselves.

And so, you know, and we're going to talk about that all the time my son daniel is an svp a senior a senior vice president here and um uh was just moved into that role recently and you know the the rest of the leadership team insisted that he be put in that role because he had proven himself not not because he's a Ramsey. And his level of performance in the business unit that he is in is one of our top performers inside the building. He's an incredible young leader. But he has to do that, and he's known since he was 10 years old that he has to do that

in order to move up. If he is incompetent, I can't hand it to him. Right. If he won't work, if he won't come to work and work while he's at work, I can't hand it to him, you know. And so that's the kind of stuff, the guardrails we put in place. The other guardrail, and this is great for everybody listening to a family business hour, and this is why I'm stretching your call out a little bit here because it's just general teaching, is what we call hats, and it comes from a thing Henry Cloud used to teach.

When I'm at the office, my kids call me Dave. I'm the CEO. The rest of the team here, 900 people, call me Dave. I'm the CEO. The rest of the team here, 900 people, call me Dave. I'm the CEO of the company. And so when we're sitting in a meeting and you're in that meeting, you're sitting there with your CEO. And that's how we're going to interact. And if I'm sitting there with Rachel in a book writing, brainstorming meeting,

I have the same exact discussion as the ceo there and help adding to the creative process that i do with chris hogan or with anthony o'neill when we did this debt-free degree book same exact thing i'm just as tough on her not tougher not less as i am anthony and i'm you know that's stupid don't do that i mean we just i i'm the ceo and they don't get to treat me like anything other than the ceo they're sitting in a meeting with their freaking boss now when we go home i change hats i'm papa dave and it's daddy or dad and we don't talk about business at home unless somebody asks for permission and then we raise our hands and we switch hats for just a minute, and then we switch back.

But they've got a, it's my grown kids, the mother or father of my grandkids, and that kind of thing. I'm playing with the grandbabies, and, you know, we're at Thanksgiving dinner, we're at the lake house on the weekend, whatever, that kind of stuff. We change hats back. And we don't mix these two things up, and that also keeps you from constantly being at each other's throats personally or from a business perspective. So no entitlement, no extra pay.

You earn yourself. You earn your way through and then keep in the role that you're in. So when you're at work, you don't roll your eyes at the CEO. Not and keep your job, right? You get fired anywhere else for that. So you can't act like you're a penchant teenager and your dad just did a dad joke. You don't do that to the CEO. This is big news, guys.

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Can you imagine how it would feel to no longer have that payment looming over your head every month? Just go to ChurchillMortgage.com or call 888-LOAN-200. Their team of experts will give you more clarity about your options and more peace, knowing you're saving significant money in the long run. Call 888-LOAN-200. That's 888-562-6200 or churchillmortgage.com. It's a family business theme hour here on the Dave Ramsey Show. Thank you for joining us. AJ says, Dave, I've been working for my dad's business full-time for a little over a year now.

We both agreed it would be best for me to start at the bottom and work my way up the ladder. I like to dream and plan in high definition. I would do it based on performance, not based on years. That when you hit certain performance standards and have stayed in that at that performance standard for a certain period of time then you're you can move up and so then you know you say but i mean if you're in sales and you hit your sales goals one month that that's not what i'm talking about but you move you're in sales you hit your sales goals for six months, and you became one of the top sales guys inside the company, then that enables you to take the next step and the next step and the next step. And so you need some kind of objective, definable measure of success

that when you reach that and hold it for a period of time, that qualifies you to move to the next stage. And that will allow you to have a set thing where you and your dad are on the same deal instead of him just going, well, when I think you're ready, that's too vague for you. And it is too vague. You need to have a little bit clearer path than that. And if you have a big enough business, have some other people looking at it, looking at you with your dad,

looking at you, not just the two of you talking about it, in other words. Nick is with us in Texas. Hi, Nick. Welcome to Family Business Theme Hour. How can I help? Well, Dave, so my stepdad and my mom started a handyman business down in San Antonio. I live up here in Lubbock, and I've gone down and helped them out with it a couple times. And they're pushing.

They want me and my wife and my daughter to come down there. So far, from the numbers that they've given me, he says that they're, I think, I think it's their top line gross is going to be like 375 for the year. But I, you know, I would like to be a part of this. But I don't know what's the smart way to go about it. And I also need to know how to kind of weigh my current employer benefits um to weigh it out you know dollar wise to know how to make the best decision yeah how many people in their operation um if you count my mom that helps out too so my stepdad does most of the work. They had a guy help him for a little bit, but he just wasn't experienced.

And then, like I said, I've gone down there twice to help out and would make decent money. But at the same time, I've got obligations back home that I need to fulfill. So what are they wanting you to do, just join and work for them? Yeah, so it was kind of a, you know, join, but also, you know, you could start your own, you know, get your own license, and then we'll kind of like tag team, but also, you know, you'll come help here and do what you know how to do, and then I'll come help you when you don't know how to do something.

Sounds kind of vague. Well, like I said, it's fairly new. They just started it earlier this year, and, I mean, they're doing great. They've got more work to do than people to do it and time to do it. Well, that's generally true of a handyman business is being run well because there's huge demand for that. So how old are you? I'm 32.

Okay. When you're 42, do you want to be a handyman? I enjoy the work. I like working with my hands. The thing is I'm not 100% certain. Like I've got the skill to do it. Is this what you want to do with your career and your life? I'm still trying to figure that out.

I listen to you and I listen to Ken, and it's been something that I've been talking about seriously with my wife for a while. Yeah. Just because they need help, just because they would like you, just because that you can make money doing it does not mean you should do it. Right. You should only do it if it's a part of your long-term personal plan. We told our kids not to join our business unless they really felt God's call to do that, meaning they really felt like this is what they were supposed to do with their life.

Yeah. meaning they really felt like this is what they were supposed to do with their life. Rachel, don't come in here and put yourself through all the haters on Twitter, all the negative crap that we go through when we put ourselves into the public spotlight. Don't put yourself and your family through that. Don't come in here and go on the road and travel and put up with TSA and all that stuff to be a Ramsey personality. It ain't that glamorous at the end of the day when you're doing it. It actually turns out to be work. And don't do all of that unless this is what God tells you to do with your life

and you're just excited about doing this with your life. And these were discussions we had with her when she was in college, even as a teenager before college. So don't go into something just because you can or just because the family is there. It ought to be what you're doing with the business ought to be an extension of a part of your overall plan for your life, and I don't hear that in this situation. I think they want the grandbabies near them,

and they're trying to get you to come down there and open up another thing right next to them or something, and it's real vague. And that's okay if you want to do that, but you need to step back and go, 10 years later, am I still doing this? Is this what I want to do? But just getting in with the family business just because it's available is a good way. That's a bad reason to join any business. And family business just makes it even worse. So, good question. Mickey's with us in Minnesota.

Hi, Mickey. Welcome to Family Business Theme Hour. How can I help? Hey, Dave. I appreciate you tackling my question here. Sure. I work for a family-owned company that's transitioning to the second generation. The first generation has been not very effective communicators, and as one of

the leaders who will report to generation two, I'm wondering what I can do to encourage open and honest communication between my new boss as well as the members of our leadership team. How many people in the whole business? Less than 20. Okay. So there's not a whole lot of leaders that aren't family. You're one of the few.

Yes, correct. I mean, unless you've got a whole bunch of chiefs and not many Indians, right? A little bit of that going on. But, yes, there will be four of us basically leading the group, one of whom is the second generation. Right. Okay. How open do you think second-generation person is to this discussion?

60% open. I've had some of those discussions. And at times, if I pick the right time, there is hope. At other times, there is no willingness to discuss certain topics. Okay. What would be an example of a topic that isn't discussed? Personnel. Ah.

Yeah. Sacred cows in the building. Yes, sacred cows. Okay. In the form of human beings. Okay. Yes. Gotcha.

Okay. That one's untouchable. They've been here forever. They're incompetent, but we're not going to do anything about it. Yes. Yeah. A little, yes. Okay. All right. they're incompetent but we're not going to do anything about it yes yeah a little yes okay all right um why don't you start doing some reading and offer to share some of those books

around the building including with gen 2 i'll send you a copy of entree leadership um our number one best-selling book on our playbook on how we run this business and uh it talks a lot about communication and it talks a lot about getting the right people on your team and getting the wrong people off your team the right people on the bus the wrong people off the bus the right people on the right seats on the bus is what my friend jim collins calls it in his book good to great by the way that would be a book you could read through with jen too i'd read good to great. I'd read Ideal Team Player by Pat Lencioni. And I'd read Entree Leadership.

That's three of them I'd pick up immediately and just see if you can create a little book club within your four- or five-person leadership team, and I bet you can get some discussions going about how we can run this thing better rather than just going in and go you know george is a doofus we ought to fire him this is the dave ramsey show Our scripture today, Hebrews 13.7, Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you.

Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith. John Maxwell says, The pessimist complains about the win. The optimist expects it to change. The leader adjusts the sails. It's a family business theme hour. We're talking family business with you this hour. The phone number is 888-825-5225.

On November the 8th, we're going to do our first full family business session, full day of it, teaching and discussion. A fairly small group. We're not going to have a huge number of people in this. It's the first time we've done this subject matter exactly this way. And we're going to start exploring this a lot more because the folks on our this subject matter exactly this way. And we're going to start exploring this a lot more because the folks on our Entrez leadership team hear an awful lot about family business issues as we're dealing with family and small businesses all the time.

If you're interested in this November 8th event, text FAMILYBUSINESS to 44222. FAMILYBUSINESS to 44222. Or just call into the office here and talk to our Entree Leadership Team. They'll help you get signed up for that, and you can be part of that particular event. Michelle is with us in Nevada. Hi, Michelle. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave.

Thank you for having me. It's an honor. Honor to talk to you. How can I help? Thank you. I own and operate a family-owned business, and I belong to a women's entrepreneur group that includes many other family businesses, and we often relate to each other. To give a little bit of background, my family business was originally owned by my sister

and her husband. We started the business about seven years ago and recently my sister and her husband have decided to split up. Majority ownership of the business has been signed over to me. My sister has taken another job but maintains a small percentage of ownership of the company. Her soon-to-be ex works as an employee for the company, but no longer has any ownership. The tensions are high, the dynamics are strange, and there's a lot of resentment between the three of us as I have taken leadership. So at this time, I'm wondering how I can salvage my relationship with my sister and what advice you would have for other family

business owners to prevent such a painful environment during this kind of transition. Yeah. How many people are on your team? Between 10 and 15. Okay. And your sister's not in the day-to-day operation? She has a very small role, but I would not consider her day-to-day. Okay. Can she be moved out of that role i would like to move her out of that role but there is resistance

okay well you're a majority owner you can decide whatever you want to decide which goes into me wanting to salvage our relationship and why I want to ask your opinion on how to handle this. Yeah, I got it. Okay. Well, I don't think he can stay. Agreed. I don't think that works. With her being an owner, her being around there, and honestly, if I'm in your your shoes i probably don't want him

you were right and so um you know you own the business um i would just sit down with him and go you know part of this mess is that that you lost your marriage and your job and um i i'm you know i'm really sorry but this is awkward as crap and nobody wants to come to work here because of all the awkwardness in the air including me and i own the freaking place you know it's just the air stinks in this building because of all this crap you two have drug into my building you know exactly and so i i think it's going to be i think it's better for your career your life and my life for you to move on you can be generous with him on severance and help him get started in something else you don't have to be nasty or mean or uh or caustic uh but if i woke up in your shoes um i you know this would be his last week i i just i wouldn't i there's a thing i i reached a point when i had a bunch of team members here and some toxic stuff going on that i didn't want to come to the place i owned and i thought

that's dumb i'm not gonna leave so some of these other people are you know and and i just that we went through a um a a bit of a trimming if you will it's just like you know why why why am i putting up with this you know so uh and it's not being mean or anything it's just like you know why why why am i putting up with this you know so uh and it's not being mean or anything it's just kind of this this revelation that you own the place you're not being unkind you're not being unprofessional you're not being unfair this is a small family business and you have brought your all's divorce has brought toxicity to the thing, and it just doesn't work. And to the extent you can financially afford to, be overly generous and send him on. And then I would sit down with her and say, I love you, and you're my sister, and I'm always going to love you.

As far as this business goes, you don't have rights. You're going to perform at a level that is professional while you're in this building and treat me with respect and i'm going to treat you with respect and i'm going to lead you with kindness and firmness like i do everyone else in this building and if you don't want to do that and you want to be mad that's your decision but you know, you cannot just decide how you want to act as if you're a majority owner. You're not. Now, we can be sisters and friends and you not be here at all. Or we can be sisters and friends and you be here and you perform and you do what I want you to do while you're at work. Because I'm at work.

I'm not your sister. At work, I'm your boss. That's resetting the roles now the problem is is that she's probably hurting right now from all this divorce and all this emotion and so she's probably not up for hearing kind firm truth from you right so for anyone or anyone so what is it that you need her to do that she's not doing leave the company i need her to get out of this position oh you just need her to be gone completely okay yes all right so what's her uh ownership position worth 20 what's it worth money wise nothing the business is worth nothing the business is in the red right now oh good great okay um okay well she's a minority shareholder and we're in the red and you and your ex are causing us more trouble than not i just fired

him and i need you to just take a sabbatical for six months and go do something else with no pay well i mean you can give her severance too if you want i don't care but it doesn't matter to me uh you don't have a lot of money to throw around at either one of these characters it sounds like exactly so, you know, what causes this business and you and your sister to have the best possible life five years from today? Those are some painful actions on the short term that create long-term healing. And, you know, what's good for the business? What's good for you? What's good for your sister long-term healing and you know what's good for the business what's good for you what's good for your sister long term you know the ex-husband he's no longer even in consideration

other than i'm just going to be kind to him as a human but you know he's just gone but uh you know in terms of her look we're in the red we're losing money we got all this toxicity in the building between you and your ex and so uh you need to take some time off and go do something else. While I try to see if I can save this for both of us, I love you too much for us to just keep going at this. It's not working. And let her have some time off. And, you know, if she's only working this part time, she's probably got to get a job anyway doesn't she yeah she did go get another job and that's part of the resentment that is part of the what we're experiencing she has a very small role in our business and i think

for her it's why am i the one who has to go get a job and you two are still here doing this yeah well he's gone you're you're the only one here doing it. Because we're losing money. That's why. Exactly. So, I don't know that you're going to make her happy. She's in an unhappy time in her life. So, I don't think you can fix her. You can just be kind to her, be thoughtful.

But you have to make the moves that are best for you and for this business and be very clear with everybody else. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for the Dave Ramsey Show.

This episode is over, but if you heard about a product or service and didn't have a chance to write it down, don't worry. We list everything that is mentioned during this episode in the podcast show notes section. Thanks for listening.