The Ramsey Show - App - The Key To Financial Success: Slow and Steady

Episode Date: February 14, 2025

From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by number one bestselling author, Mr. Ken Coleman. And we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. We'll help you with your money, making more of it, keeping more of it, spending less, all of the issues. And Ken is the man when it comes to, how do I make more income? Because that is my greatest wealth building tool. Maybe that's switching jobs. Mo' money. Mo' money. New career path. There we go. Some short term

side hustles. Whatever it is. We want to help you make the most of your money. Happy Friday, sir. You as well. Do you have a brand new bomber jacket? I always try to impress Ken with my wardrobe. I feel like this is one I haven't seen before. He looks impressed. I am impressed. It's a good look. It's a dark chocolate. If I'm going to be really honest, Ken, I just

came down from our event center Where we have our Money and marriage event And I'm looking out At some lovely couples Who came to join us We have actually A really good looking

I was looking at them Before the show It's a pretty good looking You say it like it's rare Ken Well it is rare I'll be honest But today Kid

We've got a great looking Group out there Full studio lobby We're going to have fun today That's what George and I do. We're going to coach you, but we're going to have some fun. So, you know, this stuff doesn't have to be dour. As I say, if we don't laugh, we cry.

And by the way, I've got to say one other thing on the bomber jacket. It matches your beard perfectly. Ken, I need to just carry you in my pocket just to compliment me. Thank you so much. Your pocket's too small for me to fit in. I'm a small man. True story. Skinny jeans will do that.

That's right. All right, Mary's up first in that. That's right. All right. Mary's up first in Miami. What's going on, Mary? How can we help? Hi. Uh-oh. There we are.

Hello? Yes. You sounded like a monster for a second, but now we got you back. Okay. Okay, great. We actually were sold a home illegally, and we are wondering if we should claim bankruptcy. Tell us a little bit more. Someone sold you a house that they were not legally allowed to sell you?

What happened? So we bought the home in April of 2023, and we wanted to get some things done like fencing and encapsulate the crawl space underneath. And we learned that when we went to go get the property surveyed for the fencing that the property didn't exist. And so there were no permits. There's no CO on the house. What do you mean the property didn't exist? They told us the property didn't exist in the county. There was no house that was on that property. I'm confused. You bought a house sight unseen? No, we bought the house. We saw the house. The county had no idea the house was built

oh so the house was illegally built on that land in the first place with no permits and then that person sold it to you how did you even go through the closing process was it just done through the seller no it was done through all of the bells and whistles that you're supposed to do with inspectors and real estate agents and lenders and everything. And they still sold it to us. I mean, aren't there titles to be cleared? I mean, I'm just so confused how nobody caught this. Yeah. So the lenders were in the bylaws of our contract. They were supposed to get the CO and obtain it five days after closing and they never did. And then we didn't find out about all of that. This is our first home. We were first time home buyers. So we learned a lot in this process. What'd you pay for it? $259,000. And you got a loan on that?

Yes. It's a USDA loan. Okay. How much was the loan for? It was for $259,000. So you put nothing down with the USDA loan? No, we did put down $12,000. Okay. So why are you having to file bankruptcy? I get what we just heard. I'm now understanding that, but it feels like a lot of people dropped the ball, and it was before you.

And so this has got to shake out somehow. So what have you done so far? What do you know? What do you not know? So basically, we have a lawyer on it now. We tried to get help without a lawyer and tried to talk to the builder and gave him all the documents and tried to actually get him to agree to buy back the house. He obviously did not agree to that. In the process of all of this, the house is actually, it was creating more mold. The floors are sinking. The walls are leaning. We're starting to see things. Did you get an inspection? We did, yes. And they caught none of this? They caught none of it. This is a scam.

Yeah, it was terrible. Was the inspector friends with the builder? We're not sure, but it seems like it. So this wasn't a resale, somebody else living in it. This was a builder built this essentially as a spec house on that property. As a brand new home. He said it was a brand new build. And he actually built on a 1950s foundation.

Oh, of course. Do you have a good lawyer? We're not sure. At this point, nothing has happened. No, no, no. Hold on a second. Okay. Now your lawyer's dragging this out?

Well, the lawyer's not dragging it out, but there's not really a lot of motion happening, and we just keep hanging him. Mary, Mary, Mary, it is time for you to get real seriously mad and get going with it. Fire the lawyer now. You are getting jerked around like I've never even, I can't remember the last time I heard a story like this. And I feel bad for you, but you are going to have to stand up and fight. So the builder screwed you.

The inspector screwed you. Sounds like your lawyer is screwing you over and you are the common denominator in this. And I hate that this is happening, but I got to tell you, George, if I were in this situation, I promise you I'd have the builder begging for mercy because he is liable. The inspector is liable, and your lawyer is a scumbag. I could go take care of this in court, and I could get a law degree out of a Froot Loops box and take care of this situation. Am I right, George?

Am I missing anything? No, this is the Ken Coleman Esquire energy you need, Mary. I'm more pissed off than you are, Mary. This is America. I'd be taking that builder to the cleaners with a scary attorney right now. I'd go to the local news. They love this crap. We tried the local news.

They told us it was a legal issue. Oh, my gosh. Okay. Mary, all you do is make excuses for why you're getting abused. Okay, so what's the ramifications here of you living in a home that has no record? Are they going to evict you? I assume you can't even live in it. No, we can't live in it, so we actually don't live in it.

Are you renting with the same family? Okay. So you're renting right now, but you still make payments. Have you talked to the lender that they basically have bad collateral here? Yes, they said they didn't care. They don't care you still owe us the payment every single month? Yes. And you can't sell it?

I think your only way out of this, and again, I'm not an attorney. This is for your attorney to deal with. You've got to sue this builder to get your money back get an attorney what we're trying to do get rid of your current but do not file bankruptcy that's not the solution here the solution is to take this builder to court sue them potentially get the inspector involved because they clearly can't do their job well and then collect on whatever the settlement is i wish i had better news i mean we have no no power in this but i'm going to tell you don't do anything drastic like bankruptcy at this point you're just gonna have to float the payment until this gets solved which would light a fire under me i wouldn't even float the

payment i'd be sitting in the i'd be sitting in the banker's office, the lender going, I'm not paying you a cent because all of you are going down. But after I got a lawyer who had a brain and who wasn't going to take advantage of you guys. Yeah, I think A1, find a new attorney. New attorney with a backbone, somebody who wants to destroy somebody. Because this is wrong. What a weird situation. Oh, my gosh. I got a headache.

Thanks for sharing, Mary. I hope it works out for you guys. This is The Ramsey Show. If you need health insurance for yourself or your family, you might be lost in a maze of confusing terms, overwhelming options, and questions about networks. Not to mention high costs and bad service from insurance companies that don't care

about what you want. Common concerns like those are why I'm proud to recommend Health Trust Financial. They've been working with Ramsey for over 20 years, and they're the only Ramsey-trusted health insurance broker. Health Trust Financial takes an unbiased approach to finding you the best health insurance for your situation. They listen to your needs and because they work for you, not the insurance companies, their service is free with no obligations and no pressure. Here's the best part. Health Trust Financial customers typically save an average of $500 a month. Health Trust Financial customers typically save an average of $500 a month. Health Trust Financial is your one-stop shop for unbiased advice about health insurance options to make sure you don't overpay.

So get out of the maze by going to healthtrustfinancial.com today. healthtrustfinancial.com Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman. Open phones at 888-825-5225. If you guys want to take control of your money this year, there's no better way to do that than by making a budget. It sounds simple. It might sound overwhelming. I don't know. But here's the deal. We created an app to make it easier than ever. It's called EveryDollar. You can go download it in the App Store for free or go to EveryDollar.com to get started. And it will give you such peace of mind to look in that financial mirror and just know the reality of your situation and how to move forward. And that's exactly what

this app is going to do for you. Be sure to check it out. Landon is up next in Memphis. What's going on, Landon? Hey, I appreciate y'all taking my call. Sure. How can Ken and I help? So this is probably a really stupid question, but I'm a tight wad, so I got to ask it anyways. Okay. So I'm in Baby Step 7, my wife and I, and we're 27. And really the problem with my question is I feel like I just have too much of my net worth wrapped up in my house. But I just recently bought a Mercedes S-Class maybe a day or two ago. And just emotionally to me, it feels like I spent way too much money on something that goes down in value. And it just eats me up thinking about what I could put that money in that would go up in value. And so my question is just should I take this stupid car back?

Well, let's talk about what you spent on it. So after taxes and fees and all that, you know, junk is about 35 grand. All right. And what's your household income? The last two years I've averaged about 250. Well, there's some ratios for you. That puts it in perspective. How much do you have tied up in everything with wheels and motors in your house right now? Probably about $45,000, counting the Mercedes. Yeah. Okay. You're driving an older car for the other car, correct? Dave would have said, you should have bought a nicer car.

You're not doing anything wrong. Both of my cars outside of the Mercedes are probably worth $10,000 total. I understand ratio-wise it sounds okay, but emotionally it just doesn't, it doesn't feel right to write a check when I could, which are for something that could go down, something that goes down in value when I could put that in, you know, something like some mutual funds, retirement, whatever. All right. Let me ask you a quick question, Landon, and you seem like a very even keeled level headed person. So this may be difficult for you to answer but have you ever acted out of emotion before and realized that your emotion was wrong uh sure all right so your emotion is wrong on this mercedes

well your emotions wrong i mean like intellectually i get that like i do get that but oh wait a second. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. You started off and said it was all emotional, and I just destroyed the emotional argument on your behalf, by the way, and now you want to go intellectual. Well, what I mean is, like, basically all in all in, we're worth about $750,000, and about $550,000 of that is in my house. Okay.

And so it just feels like cash-wise, I feel like $35,000 is rich out of the cash that I have available is what I mean. It's not. Landon, there are people who have a negative net worth who bought more expensive cars than you today. And so just know that in the grand scheme of life, it's going to be okay. And here's the deal. When you're young, naturally, more of your house is going to make up your net worth. It might be 50%, 60%,'s the deal. When you're young, naturally, more of your house is

going to make up your net worth. It might be 50, 60, 70, 80% when you're young, but over time, compound growth with your investments will catch up. And so by the time you retire, your house will probably be a third of your net worth. And you're right. That car will be in an impound somewhere 30 years from now, and that's okay. Stuff is stuff. You wouldn't say go buy $10,000 news on Toyota Camry or something. You're in your live like no one else era. You said you have a paid for house, right? You're in Baby Step 7?

Yeah. Then what's the point of money? You're scared to death over nothing. There's three things you can do with money, Landon. You can give it, save it, spend it. And if you just save it, you're going to drive yourself crazy. If you just spend it, you're going to end up broke. And if you just give it, you'll be a great philanthropist, but unable to retire. And so it's wise to do all three. And what you're

experiencing is something I experienced as well, which is needing to flex this muscle of spending after you've been so aggressive toward a financial goal of paying off the house or investing. And so this is something I struggled with. When I stroke a check for my wife's last car we bought her, it hurt my soul. I've never spent that much money on anything outside of a house. And I remember that. And Ken remembers.

I was talking to him about it. I remember. But over time, you'll look back 10 years from now and go, remember when I was stressed out about buying a $35,000 car? I'm sure Dave Ramsey had the same experience. Yeah. Now Dave's cars are worth more than my house.

And so it's okay to have nice stuff as long as you understand that it's a toy that goes down in value. It doesn't make or break you. Money just magnifies who you are, and it sounds like you are right on track, my friend. What year is that Mercedes, and how many miles? 2018, it's about $85,000. Yeah, it's totally fine. I drive a used Mercedes as well. If you take good care of it, it'll last forever.

It's a little bit more expensive to keep up. Yes, but you've got it. I mean, listen, you've been shooting all over yourself, and you need to stop. Keyword should, just for those listening who weren't sure what Ken just said. I know exactly what I said, and we all tend to should. I didn't know what you said either. Should, but I'm using it very purposefully.

My therapist tells me this. It's called double entendre. Stop shooting on yourself. I should have done this and I should have done that. That's the idea. And so you can sit there and play that game and talk yourself into another $5,000 car. Sounds like you've got two $5,000 cars or somewhere in that range. So you do whatever you want to do. You can take the car back, and that allows you to sleep better, but I think you're not addressing what's really going on. And what's going on, George, this is more your lane than mine, although I understand it.

I just think there's a deep-rooted shame in this. I'm not allowed to have something this nice. I don't deserve it. I don't think it's fear. I think it's shame. I think he's got shame over this, and I think you've got to confront that. Did you grow up with money, Landon? Yeah, maybe my parents had some money for sure.

So what was the – we say behavior is a language. How did the way they handled money influence you? Well, I'll tell you what, honestly, what I think it is, is honestly that I've just been so aggressive since I was 18, because, I mean, you know, just doing this since I was 18, and, you know, doing this without marriage, that it almost feels like, you know, I need to stay aggressive. You know what I mean?

And so, you know, we just fought and clawed so hard to pay our house off and the whole deal. Yeah. What does your spouse think about this? Oh, she legitimately, we went up to the dealership and she said, buy whatever you want. I'm tired and went home. Good for her. That's a good woman right there. That's a good woman. By the way, let me just ask you this. How long you been familiar with Dave and his teachings and what we do here? Since I was probably 12. All right. I want you to finish a sentence for me, okay? You ready? Sure, sure.

Live like no one else so that later you can... Live like no one else. All right, then. Now swap that with drive. Drive like no one else. Drive the crappy car so later you can drive like no one else. You worked really hard. You worked really hard to get to a point where you can buy a $35,000 Benz.

And by the way, your wife has worked really hard too, and she deserves to go on date night with you in a car that you don't have to pedal like Fred Flintstone. Hey, there he is. Did you hear that laugh? That's the first time on this entire call I felt like we got the real you who wasn't so uptight. Well, what's so funny about that is that's the first time on this entire call i felt like we got the real you who wasn't so uptight well what's so funny about that is that's not far off from what i'm driving outside

of the bins i know i know i don't look like that car this guy he thinks do i do i come across really dumb because when you tell me you got two cars worth ten thousand dollars those are fred flinstone cars i didn't have to do a lot of deduction my man and so she deserves better she deserves better you if you want to drive a piece of if you want to drive a turd on wheels then that's up to you but she doesn't deserve that can we agree it's valentine's day for heaven's sakes i agree all right then relax you worked really hard. It is impossible for me, George, to conceive of a scenario where Landon does something dumb with money. Yeah. I mean, you are spot on our parameters. Here it is. If all the things with wheels, motors, and your life adds up to more than half of your

annual income, you're off track. That's simply too much. You are not even close to that. And again, like ratios, Dave buying a nice car is like me buying a biscuit. And so you have to understand the ratios look different. When you have a very high income, your net worth is going to continually grow. You're 27. You got another 30, 40 years of working for you and investing to build wealth. And so in the meantime, you have to do something called enjoying life. And I'm scared because you're kind of like me. I'm wired to go. But if we didn't eat this month, we could invest that in a good growth stock mutual fund. It could make 12% over that. You can't live your life like that.

You've got to let go. Speaking of letting go and living life, George, how do you eat a biscuit? What do you put on your biscuit? One bite at a time. Oh, really? Yeah. No butter? No jam?

I'll do a little butter. No jam? No honey? It's like a chicken biscuit? What are we talking? I'm asking you. It's your biscuit. Yeah.

I'll do half butter, half jelly. Best of both worlds. How about you? Oh, I like the jam. A lot of jam. Jam's your jam. I respect that. Well, glad we could at least help Landon get over his emotions.

This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, Hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order? Yes, I have, George. Sketchy and never trust them. And that's why we recommend Delete.me. They help with that. Yeah, they do.

Delete.me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites. And it is an incredible service that everyone needs. And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids' names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find. That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful. I love these reports. So far, get this, they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites,

and saved me 77 hours of time. It's incredible. Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it. I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable. It's amazing. So again, that's joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey. Make sure to check it out, you guys. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Ken Coleman, taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You know, we've got a phone number to call, of course, and we get a lot of voicemails on that. And so occasionally we like to do a little segment called Sorry We Missed Your Call,

where we listen to the voicemail and respond without having to talk to them. So let's see what we have today. Do we have a voicemail? What do you got for us, Kelly? I actually am trying to get some financial advice on if I have $30,000, which I do, and another $1,000 to $1,500 a month, what would be the best move or strategy to turn that $30,000 into $300,000 in one year? The last month or two, I've been learning stocks, bonds, ETFs, options, day trading.

Still got a lot further to go on acquiring knowledge whenever it comes to that, but just wanted to get some info from someone that actually knows what they're doing and talking about. Thank you very much. All right. Good question. My first thought, Ken, was you don't need knowledge. You need patience. This guy's about to lose his butt.

Yeah. But he wants to 10X that 30. Geez. 30 grand to 300 grand in one year? Go to Vegas, my man. I was going to say. Hit the craps table. Good luck.

Highly, highly prospective investment. It's a quick turnaround. Yeesh. My question is always with these, why? Why the urgency and the desperation to turn 30 into 300? What is this get rich quick mentality? Where is it coming from? Social media.

Likely friends, social media. I saw a guy who posted that he does day trading, and if I buy his course, he'll show me how to 10x my money guaranteed. It's the microwave mentality. You got to be a crockpot in a world full of microwaves. And this is not just my opinion. One of my favorite proverbs from the Bible, Ken, wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it. It's ancient wisdom. Wow. You gain wealth fast,

you're going to lose it even faster. And so you're going to fall on your face trying to do this. And I want you to build wealth. And I popped it into my investment calculator just to kind of get a lay of the land. Instead of one year, if you had 30 grand, you're 30, I don't know, if you're in your mid thirties, let's say, 30 grand,000, you're adding $1,500 a month, 10% rate of return on average. It'll take you probably eight or nine years to get to $300,000, and I'd much rather you gain it slow and keep it than try to risk it all by day trading or doing options trading and lose it all. So that's my take. That's the Ramsey plan is let's get rich slow. Let's build wealth the right way and not be in a hurry to do it. If you want to make more money, go increase your income. You can increase your savings rate, but trying to gamble this away is not the move. I like it. I think we need a new segment called

George Quotes the Bible. I would love that, actually. I think that would be great. I thought you did a good job there. The guy calls, leaves a voicemail, and you drop some proverbs on it. This is my encouragement, too. His name's Travis. Go read a proverb a day. You can read it in a whole month if you just do that, and it will give you the best financial wisdom money can buy. No course necessary. You can read it online for free.

Download the Bible app. There you go. But I'm telling you, there's just some wisdom in being the tortoise instead of the hare. We know how that story plays out. The tortoise wins every time. Every time. So thanks for the question, though. Casey is up next in Lexington, Kentucky.

What's going on, Casey? Hello. Thanks for having me on. I understand now why people say that. I have – oh, my goodness. I forgot my question. No. Okay, okay. So when we finish baby step three, which I believe is a fully funded three to six months, right?

Yes. Correct. Okay. So after we finish that, which should be, it's going to be a little while until we finish that, but that's like our next step. We have been discussing buying a house or putting money into our business. We're kind of business owners now. It's complicated, but I just wasn't sure what would be the best thing, to buy a house or to invest in our business. What's your business? Tell us a little bit about it.

Okay, so it's my husband's business. I'll preface it with that. Um, he owned a restaurant and he wants another location, but more of like his own type of deal. Cause right now he's got a few partners and it's kind of complicated. Um, but like eventually stepping out and doing something so low down the line. Yeah. Uh, that's all I needed to hear i just wanted to know what what we were looking at and what the investment would do and i would not put the business investment in front of saving for the house okay okay especially in the hospitality industry there is immense risk in starting a restaurant yeah let's see how this deal works out tell him to be patient feels like the

call that george i mean excuse me the voicemail we just answered. I think this is a patience deal on the professional side of things. He's got multiple partners. Those at times, that can be tricky. And he's already got some real money, and I'm guessing some sweat equity involved there. Let's learn. Let's see if that proves to be successful before he chases another rabbit. There's an old phrase, if you chase two rabbits, you lose them both.

And I think that would be the advice I would give your hubs there. Let's move forward on a stable plan to get a good house. George, tell them what we want them to do on that house. So you're saving up for a down payment. That would be your next goal after baby step three. We call that baby step three B, where before you start investing, which is baby step four, you just go real hard at getting that down payment set in under two years. Is that realistic for you guys? It might be a little longer than that. That's okay. The business is kind of up and down. It's not super steady, the income. One more reason to not go start another one.

We don't have this one squared away. But yeah, in that case, what you could do once you finish baby step three, just go ahead and begin investing 15% of your household income into retirement plans. And if he's self-employed, there's still a lot of options out there. There's always a Roth IRA, which you can do outside of employment. There's solo 401ks. I imagine his situation, it might be different, but there's a lot of opportunity to invest.

And then on top of that, save up for that down payment. And once you guys have a little more stability in your life and you've got that foundation, now we can figure out what it's gonna take to start this business. And I hope you do it with cash and just move slow. Yeah, that's why I'm calling you guys because I'm like, we're terrified of debt. We did something stupid twice. We paid

off eight credit cards and loans and then closed them. And then we reopened like eight more cards. So, but we're about paid off and we're done with that. Like I've listened to you guys so much, like it's such an embarrassing thing, but we're done with that. Like I've listened to you guys so much, like it's such an embarrassing thing, but we're done with that and we're just looking to the future and doing everything debt free or, you know, I know a mortgage will be taking that on, but that's when I should be do a business and, you know, and increase income. But I really want roots. I'd figure out what is a reasonable goal for this business.

Once we are, we, once we're in the house, okay, what's it going to take to start this business and then figure out what is a reasonable goal for this business once we are we once we're in the house okay what it's going to take to start this business and then figure out what that number is and how do we start slow if it's an overwhelming number we can't afford a million dollar are you working i'm not no i i have two kids and i stay home with them and um i do homeschool and well you're working you're working you're working your tail off uh but you're not working in the business with him you're not in the business. What has his range of income been since getting involved with this partnership and this restaurant? Do you have a couple years of numbers for me, like what he's been making?

Probably before taxes, probably around $35 to $40. Oh, my gosh. It varies because there's also quarterly, but it does vary a lot. What's the high mark, Ben? What's the highest he's made? Probably 40. Okay, listen to me. Now I'm going to go older brother, and I may be old enough to be your dad for crying out loud. I would not be in any hurry to get in a house at all.

I would be saving. So the advice doesn't change on the baby steps, but I would just be renting until you guys figure out what the future looks like on this. He's not making much money at all. He should go be a line cook in the kitchen and make more. My goodness, he could make more working at Walmart. So I really don't want you thinking about a house until we see his income get a good bit. I'd like to see him close to double that income and get some stability there, George. Yeah. Because I just don't want you, here's what happens. You get into a house that you think, okay, this is going to be

right. And then something goes wrong and you guys are out of income for six months and he's starting from scratch. That is scary business. And making 35 grand gross, it's going to be hard to afford any mortgage with that, let alone rent. And it's going to be a long haul on savings. So go ahead and settle into the long haul. And you all need to figure out a better income situation if this thing doesn't start to turn. We got to delay the business dream and get the income as a crisis at this point. So he either needs to opt out of this restaurant business and go get a different job, but now is not the time to start a business or buy a house so there's option c we got to figure out the income first thanks for the call casey more of your calls coming up

888-825-5225 this is the ramsey show hey you guys i'm not a fan of the big banks and you probably already know which ones i mean but i do like credit unions because they're non-profit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years, and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured

by the NCUA up to $250,000. It's easy to join, and Fairwinds partners with more than 5,000 credit union locations around the country. So you can bank in person wherever you live. But if you prefer the online experience, you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. And while you're there, look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's fairwinds, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Kamel and joined by Ken Coleman.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. It's time for our Ramsey Show question of the day brought to you by YRefi. YRefi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. Now, private student loans are different than federal student loans like Sally Mae. So if you want to learn more about this custom refinancing option and the lump sum payoff option you could qualify for after 24 months, go to YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. May not be available in all states. All right, George, today's question comes from Ava in Montana. She writes, I'm 25 years old and my husband is 40. Because of the age gap, I'm concerned about my financial

state if my husband passes before I do. We both work in church ministry and earn $80,000 combined. We have very little retirement or savings. I have a $350,000 whole life policy on him, and the premium is $200 a month. My fear is that if he gets a term life policy, his health will decline later in life and prevent him from getting it renewed. I want a guarantee of long-term income, but at an affordable rate. Is there anything available that could work in my situation? Well, George, you're Mr. Insurance. That's what they call me, Ken. I mean, that's what we call you around the office. You know, I see him across the way and I go, there he is, folks.

Is that my personal brand? Mr. Insurance. I do have a weird affinity for him. So this is kind of your thing. I'll just say the whole life needs to be dealt with immediately. Get rid of that and get a good term life policy. That's going to put him well into his 60s. And at that point, you guys should be fine if you do what we teach as it relates to investment.

George, tell her what she needs to know. So let me go through this systematically. Number one, the $350,000 policy is not enough. You need a 10 to 12 times your income. And so if you're making 80K combined, maybe that means he's making 40 or 50. I don't know, but that would be closer to half a million, $600,000. And on top of that, your whole life policy sucks. This is just making the salesperson a lot of money, and it's not helping you out. By paying $200 a month, very little of that going to the actual policy, most of that into their pockets, some of it into a cash

value portion, growing at an abysmal rate. And so I would surrender this policy after you get term life in place. The next question, my fear is if he gets term life, his health will decline later in life. That's how it generally works. As you get older, you get closer to something called death. Getting term life won't change that. And here's the deal, term life is for a specific term, 15 years, 20 years, 25 years. But if you follow the Ramsey baby steps, by the time that policy lapses and it's over, you will be self-insured because you've been following the plan for 20 years, investing for 20 years, you paid off your house 20 years later. And so there's no fear that it's going to end and now you're out of the money. The goal is to get self-insured at

that point. And I'll give you a real life example. I'll use me as example. Now I know that anybody that looks at me on the show, you know, I'm a picture of health. I mean, I get that. And I look a lot younger than my 50 years. I also understand that. Especially if you see him on the pickleball court. That's exactly right. I'm very spry, very spry for a 50 year old. He is supple and nimble. Supple and nimble. Thank you very much. But you know, I've got three kids and they're all teenagers and a wife and two doodles. So a lot of responsibility on me, you know what I'm saying? And just to really give you a real-life thing here, I renewed mine, got a better deal because I was in tip-top shape when I got it probably, I don't know, eight years ago.

And so that's going to carry me through to where, again, Stacey would be fine if something happens. In fact, she'll be so fine, I'd be looking over my shoulder. You know what I mean? I might have to sleep in another room, Dick Van Dyke style. Keep one eye open. You know what I mean? However, and then the kids would be fine too. So that's all you need for his situation is to get that retirement going and really see that compound interest. You need to call our friends at Zander Insurance because I've done this now and Zander, it's one stop shop. You call them, I want to get good term, they're going to take care of you. They'll compare pricing with the top companies. Compare pricing, get you the best deals and they guide you as to what you need. We've worked with Zander forever

and so make that happen right now. Absolutely. Right. And it's so cheap. I don't think people realize how affordable. Yeah, it's not going to be $200 a month. Whole life is a ripoff. Generally, term life is a fraction of the price. And even at his age, it's going to be way more affordable. So jump on his inter.com or give him a call 800-356-4282 and get term life in place today. If you're listening, whoever you are out there listening, if you don't have term life in place today, do it. If anyone relies on your income, a spouse, kids, family, whoever, you need to get this in place.

It's not a matter of if, but when. You will eventually pass. I don't want to be the one to break it to you, and term life's not going to cause that to change. It's just going to give your family peace of mind. You can eat as many biscuits as you would like, George. I'm good. Because, you know, your wife and daughter are okay.

She is covered. And stay-at-home spouses, you need a term life policy as well because it would take Mary Poppins to replace all the things you do. There you go. There's my pitch for the day, Ken. I had to say it. I thought that was well played. Well played.

All right. On to Ashley in Austin, Texas. What's going on, Ashley? Hi. Thank you so on, Ashley? Hi. Thank you so much for taking my call. Sure. Yeah. How can we help?

It's right on it. My husband and I recently accumulated $3,000 in IRS debt starting this year. $3,000? $3,000. Okay. Which has added to the financial strain we already had, which now being our total debt, $62,000, excluding the mortgage. We've been following the snowball effect method for about a year now, but it feels like we're not making much progress. We've considered changing our jobs, selling our house temporarily so we can rent and save, or even relocating to our hometown for a more simpler, affordable lifestyle. My question is, what would you recommend as the best course of action for us?

Well, what's keeping you guys from making progress? Just not enough income, and you've cut everything you can cut, and you just still don't have enough income to make progress? I think that we probably could cut maybe groceries. That one, we haven't done the rice and beans like Dave Ramsey says, But we spend like $200 on groceries. What's your income? Together, take home after deductions, is that $4,400 together. A year.

Together? Sorry, a month. $4,400 a month. Are you guys doing any investing right now? We are not. Okay. So that's just deductions, meaning like taxes, maybe health insurance, something like that? Correct. Okay. So $4,400 a month, and you're trying to tackle, I mean, so we're talking about a take home pay of roughly 50000 a year, and you're trying to tackle $62,000. And so you're going to need more income.

You can slash expenses all you want. That will help. But income is the biggest factor here. So with this move, so you gave George and I, I think, three scenarios, right? Correct. Which one of those three scenarios allows you to cut expenses but also provides an opportunity for greater income, both at the same time. Which one of the three options or however many you gave us?

Honestly, it may actually have to be a combination. We work in a job that we have a set income, that's our set income, but we do get, we work a mortgage company. So we both receive commission and bonuses on the side. We just don't take that into account. So anything we receive, we're putting it straight to debt. But I think our salary is just not enough. What's your mortgage payment? A thousand eight hundred. Okay. So that's about, I mean, that's 40% of your income. It's definitely high.

That's hurting your ability to do this. I don't think we're at a fire moment where we have to go sell the house tomorrow. I would work on your income. And if nothing changes a year from now with your income, you might want to downsize to get out of this mess instead of it taking five years. Because normally 18 to 24 months, that's how long it takes people to get out of debt. Some longer if they got a big hole and not a big shovel and some less. But for you guys, we need to see this income grow to about six figures to get this knocked out in two years or less. Yeah. Rule of thumb for you, Ashley, and everybody listening or watching, I wouldn't make a major life change unless it has both short-term and long-term benefits. Because there's a lot that goes into a major change. And major change, when it's good in

the short term and sets me up for what I want my long term to look like. That's a no-brainer. Outside of that, no, I'm going to stick and hustle and dig my way out, not just pull the parachute. Does that make sense? Yeah. We need to expand the gap here, the margin between our income and our expenses, and I think both levers are going to be necessary.

That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to my co-host, Ken Coleman, everyone in the booth keeping the show afloat, and you, America, we'll be back before you know it. From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel, joined by Ken Coleman, host of the new show, Front Row Seat, with Ken Coleman. Be sure to check that out on the Ramsey Network and on YouTube and podcast. We're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money. Brett's going to kick us off this hour in Sacramento. How can we help, Brett?

Yeah, my question is simple. Insurance agent or insurance broker? I've noticed insurance has gone way up over the last year or so, and I was curious your thoughts on insurance broker versus insurance agent. It's an easy choice for me. I'm going broker all the time because here's the deal. With a captive agent, let's say your buddy who works for, you know, I don't know, rhymes with State Farm. I don't know, something like that. If they work for one of these companies,

they can only sell insurance from that company. Makes sense, right? Yes. Whereas a broker isn't actually selling you the policy. They're just connecting you and shopping the policies across the board from the top companies to get you the best deal. Does that make sense? So I don't fall for the marketing of these commercials i want to know

who's giving me the coverage i need at the best price that's all it is super thank you for the information what kind of insurance are you looking at well i have a car insurance i've got a way up i have a daughter driving now i also have uh an umbrella million dollar policy and a home insurance as well love it well you're doing all the right things. Yeah, I mean, to me, it's all about price. I mean, you want to obviously go with a top-rated company, and we have all kinds of connections for you. If you jump on ramseysolutions.com and click on Trusted Pros, we can connect you to the right insurance brokers in any area from home, auto, health, whatever it is, to help you sort that out. And that's something I do.

And I actually reshop every year. I contact my insurance broker and I say, hey, can you reshop to make sure I'm still getting the best deal? And they'll either say, yep, you're still the best deal. I just reshopped it. Or actually, we could save you a little bit of money here if we switch this policy over here. And so having someone do that work for me saves time hassle and money anything

to add ken or did i just like how you did the little word play so as not to uh you know technically endorse somebody now i want a chicken parm is the problem yeah shouldn't have said that yeah i do i do i won't say which one but i do have some of those commercials are really obnoxious and some are kind of funny oh the marketing's great they've gotten into a real, it reminds me of the days when I was growing up when it was like the beer commercials were really competing to be which ones were the funniest. And I feel like we've got the big three insurance. They're all really pouring the money into celebs,

a lot of funny stuff, trying to be funny. Yeah, you got Jake, you got Mayhem, you got Flo. That's it. You just nailed all three. And it's- I think that's my encore career, Ken. If this doesn't work out, I'm hoping someone will get me to be some kind of character. You would be a great insurance salesman.

I appreciate that. I think I could see you as a spokesperson doing that in your little cute bomber jacket there. Thank you for saying that. You know, because you're very trustworthy. You know, you're a small guy, but you got a very, very serious beard. Well, I'm not intimidating. I think that's part of what makes me uh you're definitely not intimidated okay neither one of us are i dug too far for the compliment i hit rock but no i'm not neither one of us are

intimidating you run into us in an alley and you kind of take a sigh of relief yes absolutely they're like oh it's a there's two little guys right there i'm the guy. A guy walked up to me in Costco, and he just said, hey, where's the paper towels? And I was aghast. I was like, does he think I work here? What were you wearing? Just normal. I mean, an outfit like this. I didn't look like I worked at Costco.

He apparently thought you did. Well, of course, I knew where the paper towels were. Let me walk you over there, sir, right this way. You were like, you instantly went to a spin, a point. You gave him an aisle number. Absolutely. I like that, George. So I'm unbearably helpful.

That's what my wife says, at least. If you're ever looking for me at a Costco and you think it's me, first ask yourself, is he near a sample? Because if it looks like me and it's a sample line, it's me. Stacey's doing the shopping. Ken's doing the sampling. That's exactly right. That's what's up.

That's how it goes. All right. Let's head out to the phones. Brooke awaits in Syrac shopping. Ken's doing the same. That's exactly right. That's what's up. That's how it goes. All right. Let's head out to the phones. Brooke awaits in Syracuse. What's going on, Brooke? Hi, guys. Happy Valentine's Day. You as well.

Happy Valentine's Day, Brooke. You're the first one to say that to us. First one to say that to us. We were starting to get our feelings hurt a little bit, but thank you. I am calling. Me and my husband are on baby step two and we i'm having like a conflict with the principles that you guys teach i think where it's either the order or i'm trying to get rid of a stupid car um and we uh have kind of like a substantial amount of money to us that's about

to come and i really want to make sure that I apply it to the situation the best way that I possibly can. How much? $5,300. Okay. $5,300? Yeah. Okay. And how much debt do you have?

So we have about $18,000 total. And then do you want me to break all of it down? Yeah, go from smallest to largest in the balances. Okay. So we have a credit card that has $178 balance left, which I've been, that's my current project. And then we have a care credit account that has two payments of $111 left on it. We have a dental loan situation that's $1,948.

We have a Discover card at $730. And then our biggest loan is a debt consolidation loan, which the stupid car is the collateral on, which is $15,535. So what's the issue here? You get this fifty three hundred dollar you know uh i don't know is it inheritance settlement um it's actually money that we had it was uninvested sitting in an account for the past year and a half that we kind of forgot existed so you'll knock out your first four debts with

that dawned on me the smallest credit card the care credit the dental the other credit the discover card all those get knocked out instantly and then we start chipping away at the remaining consolidation loan, right? That seems obvious to me, but the thing that catches me is that that $15,535 loan, the car that's tied up into it is worth about $10,000. And then we also, we have one 19-month-old, and then next month we are having our son. Woo! And we have two cars. We have the one that's tied up in this, which is stupid.

It's a Mustang convertible. And then we have a smart car. And both of these cars are uniquely stupid to have two car seats in to the point where it's almost unsafe to drive. Yeah, uniquely unsuitable for a child. I love your emotion on the Mustang. Let me guess, the Mustang convertible is your hubby's car. Actually, no.

I got a really cool job, and so I thought I could get a really cool car. Good for you. So I financed it. You wanted to let your hair flow, huh? Come on. On the way home, whoo! Your little Tom Petty free-falling. Yeah, and the job wasn't that great.

Okay. Well, I misdiagnosed that one, George. Yeah, you're underwater on the car, so you need the difference in cash or a loan from your credit union to make up the difference, to get out of this. Is that what you're saying? And this money seems to be the exact right amount. And I've been praying about it. Like, what do I do? Oh, I see.

Because I feel like we need a new car for these two babies. You could use this money to get out of this car situation with the consolidation loan. Right. If I take that money and if I can sell the car, then I can get out of that. And that's also like that payment is more than our house payment. It's like $556 a month. And we only pay like $500 a month on our house. What's your income every month?

So it would also eliminate our biggest expenses. Yeah. So last year, we made like $32,000, but my husband just had a job loss last year, which is why that was so low, and he just started a new career. So I'm not entirely sure what to expect. Yeah, you guys get a lot more money coming in, Brooke.

And so I would hang on until baby's here and you and baby are home safe before I let go of this five grand, because this might be the safety net you need for any medical bills that come up. But once that's done, I would absolutely use this money to get out of this car situation, then hit the debt snowball and the remaining debts. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. I've been doing this show for over 30 years, and some of the saddest calls I have taken are from situations that are completely preventable. Yeah, and what's so hard is I feel like one of those, especially the ones that I'm like, oh, it's terrible, are people that call in and their spouse has passed away suddenly, and they don't have life insurance.

When you have to think through, how am I going to pay my bills in the middle of next week, in the middle of all that grief, like it's just, it is, it's terrible. And so life insurance is the one thing, especially as a mom with three little kids that I'm like so big on for people to get because it's inexpensive. Zander is the place that Winston and I actually get all of our life insurance. And it doesn't cost much because Zander shops among a gazillion different companies. It doesn't cost much. You just have to admit that someday you're not going to be here. You got to say it out loud and you got to say, I'm going to say I love you to my family by taking care of them and taking the time to put this stuff in place. The cost of stinking pizza.

To get a free quote, call 800-356-4282. That's 800-356-4282 or go to zander.com. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel, joined by Ken Coleman, open phones at 888-825-5225. Hey, you do not want to miss our two-night virtual event. It's called Investing Essentials, hosted by Dave Ramsey and me, George Camel. Investing can be overwhelming, it can be confusing, and it's not something you can get from a 60-second social media post. So at this virtual event, we're going to walk you through how to maximize your retirement plans, how to choose mutual funds, how to get the most out of your money, how to invest with confidence. Plus, it's the only place where you're going to hear Dave Ramsey unpack his personal playbook on real

estate investing, what to look for, the calculations. I mean, we are going to Nerdville and back and you're going to love it. And Dave, I mean, famously is a real estate mogul. He has hundreds of millions in property investments, all in cash, and he wants to teach you how to build wealth the right way. So you're going to get clarity you need. Join us, Investing Essentials. It's happening March 4th and 5th. It's virtual. You can join from anywhere. Tickets start at 199 bucks and it's worth every penny to get four or five hours of Dave coaching you. That's pretty incredible. Get yours today, ramsaysolutions.com slash events, or click the link in the show notes if you're tuning in on podcast or YouTube. Sarah's up next in Rochester, New York.

How can we help, Sarah? Hi, how's it going? Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. So basically my issue is I am trying to figure out how we can budget our finances because my husband is a blue-collar worker on a commission-based pay scale, and we don't have consistent income per year. But last year, he made $161,000. The year before that, he made $140,000. And the year before that, he made $180,000. So I would say an

average of $160,000 over the last three years. And we're looking into doing the baby steps and snowballing all of this fun stuff. But right now, currently, with our mortgage at $4,120, we also have a consolidation loan. Health insurance is $900 a month because through his work, it's $1,300. And the credit card debt totals $127,000. Goodness gracious. What'd you guys spend on these cards? Well, it's been a combination of, like, don't hurt me, but I put my husband's motorcycle on my card because we were trying to get the points. I know that's the worst answer you could possibly want to hear. But so that's $18,000. And we have just multiple bills. He has $72,000 in credit card debt. And I have not including that motorcycle, it's like $34,000. I put groceries on it. I've put property taxes on it because our personal property taxes.

So where is your actual income going if you're using the car to fund your life? You guys make great money. I know, and that's the problem is it just disappears. I mean, we have the total debt that's going out per month for all of our payments is $9,600. $9,600? Yeah. Does that include the mortgage? Yes. Goodness gracious.

Yes. So your average take-home pay, I mean, is it $10,000 a month, $8,000 a month? Well, I'm guessing it's like closer to $13,000. Well, that's the average, though. That's the problem. Some months we'll have fantastic months, and some months we don't. So, like, for instance, if he has a bad couple of weeks or if he took vacation, then he gets his hourly pay. Let me make this clear. There are no vacations in your near future. Why is that motorcycle not sold?

We went nowhere. You need to be going to work. You don't need to be staying home at all. Well, right. Yeah. Where's this motorcycle? Where is is it it's in the garage why is it not sold yesterday that's the source of see here's the deal sarah i'm listening to this and george will keep coaching you but i'm getting fired up on your behalf i like how fired up you're getting george it's it's hard to tell between when you're calm when you're fired up so it's really got to be discerned well Well, I'm often irritable.

You are. But what's going on here is not the irregular income. You kind of presented this call as, my husband's got an irregular income. By the way, George and I do as well. So you're actually talking to two people that this is how we are paid as well. And so your issue is not that. Your issue is you're overspending. You're not living within the means, whether it's regular or irregular. That's the problem. And so what happens is because you put all this stuff that you couldn't afford on credit and you got yourself in so much debt, the irregular income makes it even more stressful than it would be if you had it coming in every month.

So I just want to make sure that you are acknowledging this or Hubs needs to acknowledge this because if he's holding up the sale of the Harley, then you guys got to have a real sit down here and go, this has got to stop. But the irregular income is not your issue. It's the behavior. And so you know- And to George's point, you better go make some more right now. Sorry, George. No, but on a bad month, let's say it's $10,000. So we know that. On a great month, it might be $15,000, right? Right, right.

So it's not zero. Correct. So we can't go, well, we can't do a budget because it's irregular. What you guys need to do is cut up the cards yesterday, freeze your credit completely, close all the accounts, start doing the debt snowball, and sell everything you can in sight while also working twice as much as you are. There it is. Right. Well, I've run out of children to sell, but I definitely would like to do the snowball, but is there a way to negotiate with the creditors to help with the interest rate? You can try. I don't want to run away from this debt. You can call every

creditor and say, hey, listen, we're trying to pay you back. This interest is killing us. Would you be willing to lower it? But even that's a secondary action. You didn't even hear anything George said. I did. I did. We need to cut up all of our cards. I know. But I'm looking forward from here. If we do all of these things, I just want to see. Sure, call them. We could be paying for 120 years. Right, but here, what's the motorcycle payment every month? 360. Boom. So tomorrow you could free up 360 bucks if you get rid of that thing.

Are you underwater on it? I don't know. I have not checked the resale value of it at this point. Is Hubs willing to sell this or is he fighting it? You said it was a sore spot, like it was not going to go away. Well, this could be a totally different issue too. He works really hard and he doesn't... I think he works too hard to be this broke. He works hard to finish that sentence. I want to hear this. He works really hard. Keep going. I know. Well, and I don't want to take something that he

loves so much. He absolutely loves it. He's not going to love anything. I don't care how great your toys are. When you're miserable underwater with debt, you don't love anything. Right. True. And don't you think the stress of having to work this hard and pay off all this debt is not worth the joy of the motorcycle that we can go buy once we're debt-free? Right. Agreed. I mean, this is like a child who's unwilling to let go of their toy. I know. It's not grandpappies from World War II. This isn't sentimental.

Right. True. So I just feel like we need to make some sacrifices here, and you're looking for solutions that are shortcuts that don't involve us having to change our lifestyle. It's been out of control for so long that you guys don't know another life. Right. And that's why cutting off all the – you can't go into credit card debt if you don't have a credit card. That's what I found. That's the best way to address the issue. So cutting up these cards, getting over the motorcycle, you need some instant relief

right now. And it's not going to come from a debt repayment company or another consolidation loan or adding more debt. You've got to start cutting. And so you got to have a come to Jesus moment with your husband tonight and say, this is not okay. Why are we living like this? We make $180,000. How are we in crippling debt? Right. And so is your husband on board for this? It sounds like you're wanting to make a change and you're going, hey, it's a hard sell because he's a hard worker. I don't want to make him sacrifice anymore. He is on board. I am the type of person, I'm a people pleaser and I want him to be happy. And I'm equating his happiness with his motorcycle. Let me ask you a quick question, five-second answer or less.

How happy would he be if all that debt went away tonight? Oh, world's happier. Well, then why don't we aim on that, people pleaser? Happiness is not in stuff. You can find happiness in financial peace because of a lack of stress, but it's not going to come from riding that motorcycle while you're in crippling debt, stressed out, affecting your marriage and your financial future. I'm going to send you guys Financial Peace University because I want to see you win. I think you need some fire under your butt, and I think Dave and crew can help if you watch all

nine lessons. So hang on the lines here. We're going to send you guys Financial Peace University as a Valentine's gift on us. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman, and we're also joined by a lovely couple on the debt-free stage. It's Brian and Taylor. How are you guys doing? Good, you? Amazing. I mean, you guys are better than you deserve today on the debt-free stage. Where are you from? Greeley, Colorado. Wonderful. How much do you guys pay off?

We started out in 2021 with $102,361.45 in debt. Wow. Since then, we just started Ramsey in October of 2023, and we paid off in the last 15 months, we paid off the remaining $38,727.90. Whoa. Okay. So how long did this full journey take to pay off the $100,000 too? Go ahead. Since May of 2021. Wow. That's incredible. So how many months is that? Do the math with me here. Almost, almost four years? Yes. Okay. Just shy of four years. But in 15 months was the was the almost the big one like you really went gun ho yes okay and what's the range of income during that time

uh we started out at 140,000 and then we ended up at about 158,000 wow what do y'all do i'm a truck driver and i do our international documentation for JBS. Cool. All right. Very nice. So tell us about this $102,000. What kind of debt was this? It was everything.

We had credit card debt, student loan debt, and I'm blanking. I am service. Cars. You're doing great, by the way. You're okay. I mean, look at us. I mean, we don't scare anybody. So just deep breath, you're going to be fine. Watch it or I will come take the way. You're okay. I mean, look at us. I mean, we don't scare anybody. So just deep breath.

You're going to be fine. Watch it or I will come take your job. Uh-oh. Now I'm scared. Now I'm nervous. Reverse intimidation. She just flipped it on me. We had it all.

So when we started this journey, it was hard because in 2021, we had barely just been married. We've only been together for six years. And between us, we have seven kids. Wow. And so a combo marriage. and we both brought debt to the table. And then we fought a lot. It was many, many arguments, many tears, many slammed doors in the house. And then it was in the summer of 2021, I started listening to Ramsey. And after about two months, I went home. And one night I was excited. And I told Brian, I said, hey we need to do this,

you need to start listening to these shows and he looked at me and he goes, I'm not gonna do MLM. I said, it's not multi-level marketing. That's hilarious, that's good. I said, no this is you buckling down and paying off your debt. And so I wasn't sure how to approach this because money was a huge argument for us

and we were both embarrassed, we were both frustrated and so we didn't know how to communicate. So I reached out to Andy Thiel, who was from our financial advisor, and I asked him to come to the house one day. And so he came over and he sat down and we were talking numbers. So Brian said, no, I'm not going to sit here and talk. And so I sat there with Andy and I slid a piece of paper across the table and I said, well, here's our debt. Here's our income. Here here's our age where will we be at retirement and he kind of looked at me dumbfounded when he looked at the number and he didn't say anything he got up and left and about a week and a half later he called back and he says I have some charts and graphs and I have some numbers I said can I get you and your husband to sit down so he came back to the house and again

I said Brian would you come sit down and Brian's like you know but he did he came over he stood next to me wouldn't sit and then when Andy brought like, ugh. But he did. He came over. He stood next to me. He wouldn't sit. And then when Andy brought out the charts and graphs, he goes, when I left your house, he goes, it was very dismal. He goes, I was nervous for you guys because of where you're at with your age and what your debt was. And he didn't see how we were going to get out of this.

And he goes, I don't know what your plan is. He goes, but what you have shown me. And he slid the charts and graphs over. He goes, you guys will be self-made millionaires at retirement. And right now Brian is 55 and I am 50. No, he's 57 and I'm 50. 55 sounds better. I'm 54. I'm nervous.

I'm flubbing up here. You're doing great. Wow. So where are you guys at now? Well, we are completely debt-free. We're on Baby Steps 3. Except the house. Except the house, that's true.

And on track to become Baby Steps millionaires millionaires by retirement yeah even after all of that so what encouragement to anyone listening who's gone wait it's too late for me well we have brian and taylor here telling you that even if you get a quote late start in your 50s you can still turn this around and retire with dignity yeah what a beautiful picture yeah and brian what got you were the reluctant spouse you heard ramsay way and all you heard was mary k and not. And Brian, what got you were the reluctant spouse. You heard Ramsey way and all you heard was Mary Kay and not the same. Right. So what got you to actually make that turn and go, all right, fine, I'll do this. Just looking back at what I hadn't done and what I did do was what was wrong and what I should be doing for my family and my wife. So was it really that kind of like you didn't want to look in your own mirror and go oh i'm part of this problem so was that why you were shutting down right yeah i was embarrassed

you know i should have done better and and then taylor was a numbers person and she was the next she's an ex-teacher and so i kind of learned from her and so you had to let go of your own baggage and shame and go all right i'm part of this but I got to do something about it. If I'm the problem, I'm the solution. Yep. All right, so here's what I want to know. So after the charts and graphs kitchen moment, we'll call it, what did it look like going forward? How committed were you? What was the most extreme thing you did?

Give some people out there that are listening and watching, give them something to hold on to. What'd you do? Well, I made up a graph, and it's one of those little thermometers and i put it on the wall right outside of our bedroom door so we were forced to walk past it every day to see what our actual debt value was and then we filled it in um colored it in as we went and you know paid off the debt but that first month um when i sat down i because it's it's a hard thing to do with that every dollar app. It took me the three months to really get it figured out.

It's a stumbling project. But that first month, I looked at him and I said, we spend way too much eating out. And so we did a 30-day challenge. And that was a hard one. No eating out for 30 days? No eating out. And so then. Was there any rice or beans involved? A lot of home cooking and food beans yes but um when we got done you know we both he was like well

i want to be able to have some enjoyment and i said well let's just do two two dates a month where we have one with the family and then just one with us and we were going to put that in the budget which i did but we didn't use it because we realized you know how much money it was costing to eat out so we just kind of quit everything all together and this is our first trip since we started this this is the first um all sweet we're all out on this so it's did you stay at a decent hotel we did okay it's one you guys recommended actually oh good i didn't know we were in the hotel recommendation i no one consulted me i'd like to see what is here because i got an opinion on hotels i'm i'm what they call bougie i'm told i love that i don't know what it means but i'm told that's what i am can i give a shout out to all of our kids please please do okay all seven of them here we go okay so they range from 33 down

to 15 wow so we have brianna e and tyler brandon erin claire and tyler. So we have Brianna, Ian, Tyler, Brandon, Aaron, Claire, and Tyler. And yes, we have two Tylers, one from each of us. But our kids are our motivator, too, because we realize, looking back, both of us have lived paycheck to paycheck. And it's been a very, it's a hard struggle. And we don't want our kids to follow in that path. So the two living at home are the two youngest ones, Claire and Tyler. And they've watched our struggles. And they felt the heartaches that we've been going through as well.

That's amazing. Change that family tree. Yeah. Absolutely. What's next for you guys? You're on Baby Step 3 and now we're going to be investing for the future as your financial advisor been cheering you on. Any other cheerleaders in your life?

My mom was probably my biggest one. And then we were our cheerleaders for each other. But my mom, she checked in quite often and she would send text messages. And, you know, I'd send her pictures of the graph. And, you know, she was the one that was probably the biggest one for me. That's awesome. What's the 30-second encouragement you would give to someone who might be where you guys were in your 50s going, gosh, we're $100,000 in consumer debt. We're so far behind on retirement.

We're never going to be able to do this. Be smart. Sit down with the financial. The thing that woke me up was looking at what money we didn't have and realizing how far in debt we were. And we made a big mistake. We pulled out $70,000 out of our retirement as a down payment on our house before Ramsey and realized that was probably one of the biggest mistakes we ever made because that's like a $430,000 mistake. But we just weren't set up for retirement at the time, and now we're on track. That's incredible. Well, hey, we've got a little parting gift for you for coming by.

We've got two one-year subscriptions to every dollar. That was the tool that helped you after three months of struggling through it and figuring it out. It's what helped you guys get debt-free. So feel free to use that or pass it on to someone to get their journey started. We are so pumped for you guys. All right, you ready to do this? Yes. We've got Brian and Taylor

from the Denver, Colorado area. $102,000 paid off. Credit cards, student loans, car loans, it's all gone. They did it in under 40 years with the last chunk getting knocked out fast in 15 months, making $140,000 to $158,000. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

Three, two, one. We are debt-free! Woo! That's special. From the kitchen fights to a debt-free life. On Valentine's Day, no less. A debt-free scream. Is there anything more romantic than fiscal responsibility?

I don't know. I've got to believe Cupid was debt-free. You've got to be. I almost said Cupid. There can't be much money in that matchmaking. But hey, how does he pay for those arrows? We love to see it. This is The Ramsey Show.

Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Ken Coleman. Hey, this is the last segment of this hour, and if you want to check the rest of the show out, you've got to get the Ramsey Network app. It's the only place to get full episodes of The Ramsey Show. You can download the Ramsey Network app for free. Just use the link in the show notes or just search Ramsey Network in your app store. For everyone listening on radio, stay tuned. The show will continue

as programmed, but everyone else don't miss out. It's happening in the app. Michael in New York is up next. What's going on, Michael? Hey, how are you? Thank you for taking my call. Absolutely. How can Ken and I help? Sure. So it's really just general investment advice and guidance. I got married a few months ago. Congrats. And thank God we got, thank you.

We got a lot of money in wedding gifts. You know, we currently don't have any debt, but we have like $45,000 sitting in our checking account, which is obviously ridiculous. That's amazing. Yeah, thank you. I just wanted advice on where you would put it and also just some passive investing with my income. Okay, so what is your household

income? It's about $120,000. Awesome. And you said you guys are debt-free. Do you have an emergency fund and savings outside of the 45 or is that kind of everything? No, that's everything. Okay, so that's all the money to your name that's liquid. And what would a month of expenses look like for you guys right now as a married couple? Have you kind of figured out finances yet? Not so much. Our rent is about $2,400. Utilities is another 400 utilities, another 300. I own my car. It's probably around 3,500 altogether a month. Does that include like food, insurance, everything? Yeah, maybe a little more, 3,800. Okay. So let's call it four grand is one month of expenses. Yeah.

And we recommend three to six months of expenses in a fully funded emergency fund. So for you guys, we can call that 15 or 20 grand. Okay. So let's say you kept 20 grand aside as your emergency fund, label it emergency fund, do not touch it unless there's a true emergency. And then the other 25, now we're talking. Now we can use this money towards something. I'm not sure if it should go toward investments yet. Let's dig in a little more. Are you guys renting right now? Yes, we are. Okay. And you rent to $2,400 a month. So at this stage of the game, once you set that money aside today, you'll be in baby step four, five, and six. And so I would be working on investing 15% of your household income. So for you guys, that would look a lot

like, what's that per month, Ken? Do the math for me here. $120,000. What are you doing? Hit me again. I'm sorry. I was thinking about- $18,000 a year. So basically $1,500 a month from your future income should be going toward investing. So that $20,000 might become a starter down payment fund for you guys. That's what I personally would do. Would you recommend keeping that in cash? I would keep, if this is a shorter term goal let's say in the next few years

I would just keep it in a high yield savings account I would not keep it in cash you gotta at least keep up with inflation and let this money grow for you and so a high yield savings account is the place I would store any short term savings goals any emergency fund

yeah okay and do you have any recommendations for high yield savings? absolutely yeah you can check out Laurel Road is one that has been a great partner for my YouTube channel, laurelroad.com slash george. And then we've got Fairwinds as well. That's been a great partner on the Ramsey Show.

They have a great checking and savings bundle. So there's a lot of options out there. And here's what I wouldn't do. I wouldn't go rate climbing. People will try to go, well, I can get 3.8% over here, but now it's three. The rates are changing all the time and they've been going down. And so don't worry as much about that. Just don't leave it in a boring old checking account or a regular traditional savings account. That's the key. And then beyond that, start investing in your retirement plans you have

through your employer. You got a 401k or something equivalent? No, unfortunately my employer doesn't give me that. Okay. You're not self-employed though. Your employer just doesn't have any retirement options? Yeah. Okay. So your next best bet would be something called an IRA. And that's something you can open without having an employer. As long as you have earned income, you can open up an IRA and there's a Roth version. All that means is you're paying the taxes now. You're not going to get a deduction come tax time, but that money will then grow tax-free, and you can withdraw it tax-free come retirement. Wow. So you could fund that. It's about $7,000 a year is the max contribution for this year.

And so you and your wife could both do one of those, and that would get you real close to that 15% goal. Right. Amazing. Absolutely. And I'm going to send you as a newlywed gift a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, that walks you through all of this, even on the wealth side. There's an investment traps chapter, a wealth as patience chapter that will really help you guys navigate all of this. And I think that'll be a great start. 21 to be making six figures debt-free? Yeah, it's great. And I was only going to add one thing, Michael, is that don't, not that I'm thinking you're going to, but I think this is the human condition. I agree 100% that I would put the 20,000, the additional after he's done

everything else, the emergency fund. Don't let that burn a hole in your pocket. And that's an old phrase, you know, when I was a kid, you know, your grandfather would give you 50 cents or something and then don't let it burn a hole in your pocket, which I'm like, what does that mean? It means, you know, hang on to it. Don't spend it right away. And I think for a young couple, certainly this young, you get 20 grand there. There's a lot of people that will talk them into using the 20 grand right now to get in a house as opposed to be patient, let that 20 grand be an awesome start, and really build a really big down payment. Oh, absolutely. They're in the New York City area. Exactly.

Which means 20 grand is not a suitable down payment. But you know what I'm talking about. There will be no shortage of people that'll go, oh, take the 20 grand and only put this in small. And then, no, no, no, sit tight on that $20,000. Build on that $20,000 would be my advice. Absolutely. I love it. Great call, Michael.

Thank you. Paige is in Oklahoma City up next. How can we help, Paige? Hi. How are you guys today? Doing great. What's going on? I'll just get right to my question.

I inherited a home free and clear about three years ago. I was wondering if we should sell it and put that towards our mortgage or keep it as an investment property. Oh, this is a fun one. I like this. Tell us more. Tell us how much profit it is spitting off in rental, or have you not started renting it yet? It's been rented with a tenant for about a year and a half. She's great on time every single month, but she just gave us notice that she would probably be moving out in June. Okay. And it's paid for, correct?

Yes. So what were you making in a year for renting that? Roughly $10,000 to $12,000ly $10,000 to $12,000. $10,000 to $12,000. After taxes. Okay. And what's it worth? So it probably would go for about $180,000.

Okay. And what's left on your mortgage? $300,000. So you could throw the proceeds of the home sale, if you did sell it, toward the mortgage, knocking it basically in half? Yes. That's definitely, I mean, the fact that you're even calling about this makes me think you don't really want to be in the landlord business. I mean, we, it hasn't been an issue. We're just kind of laying option. We're almost done with Baby Step 2, and we'll have Baby Step 3 done by May. So we're just kind of looking ahead. So just trying to see if that was probably a better investment or just keeping it as a rental.

I'll tell you what I would do if I were you. Because the house is not worth an enormous amount, it's not going to – I mean, how much more is it going to keep going up over 10 years, George? You know what I mean? And what's your household income, Paige? Yeah. We make about $110,000. Okay. So losing $10,000 in rental income is not going to make or break your budget.

Right. It was a small part of your income anyway. And they're not keeping $10,000 because you guys got expenses on that house. So for those reasons, George, for those reasons, Paige, I, if I were you, would sell the house and knock that mortgage of your actual home in half. I think that's going to put you further ahead financially than actually keeping the house. I just don't see that that house is worth that much long-term versus your current home. And your current homes were double. And you're going to be able to roll that in time like George has doneorge whitney have done that recently yeah

and so i i that's what i would do if i were you i'd sell the rental and put it all towards your current home okay all right good luck this is an exciting time i assume you agree with that i got out in front of the money guy you know dave loves real estate he'd probably just hang on to it because he loves real estate and he's got lots of tenants and lots of properties. But it's not a like everyone needs to own property and everyone needs to have investment property. You could take that 180 grand, put it in an investment account and you can make the same amount you're making from your renter just without the hassle. And so there's no one way to do this. And I like her plan of getting rid of the primary mortgage, freeing up the mortgage payment, investing that. And then later on, they can always save up and

pay for an investment property with cash. Yep. But great question. All right. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. If you want to catch more of it, we're still sticking around. You got to go to the Ramsey Network app to get it. We'll see you over there. This is The Ramsey Show. From the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Camel here with my good friend Ken Coleman, taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You jump in, we'll talk about your life and your money.

Aaron is going to kick us off in Idaho Falls. What's going on, Aaron? Hello. I was just calling in, and basically we just got a settlement from my wife who, at a young age, got attacked. And we're wondering what to do with that money to either put it aside or what's the best option for us as far as putting someone to avoid taxation on it? Hmm. Wow. Well, I don't know that you can avoid taxation if taxes are owed. How much is the settlement? It's $50,000. Okay.

Over $60,000. Have you gotten the money yet? Yes. Okay. Now, generally speaking, and again, I'm not an attorney here, but generally settlements are not subject to taxes. Have you looked into it? Is there an exception on this one? No, it should not be taxed. I think when the settlement was made, the father really knuckled down and told them there should be zero taxes on it, and we don't want to file that ball up if we were to put it in a bank or whatever. Yeah, I mean, there's IRS rulings about settlements, and as far as I know, again,

I do some homework, but there shouldn't be any taxes on compensation for a physical injury like this. So I wouldn't be as worried about that. And you're not going to put it somewhere to avoid. If you owe taxes, you owe the taxes. You're not going to put it somewhere that can be outside of the purview of the IRS. So I would just do your homework and make sure that taxes aren't owed, and then I would use it toward your next financial goal. Are you guys in debt? No, we're not.

Other than the house. Okay. We're pretty free of debt. No credit cards are on our name or anything. No car loan, no student loans, none of that? No. Okay, awesome. Do you guys have savings right now outside of the settlement?

In fact, we started doing the program. We're using the Ramsey app, and we're close to getting our thousands covered, and then we're going to head into the three-month followed by the six-month savings. Okay, so you're aiming at six months of savings, which, I mean, the settlement would get you there, right? Yeah, it would. I would park that in a high-yield savings account and use that as your emergency fund. What's your monthly expenses all in? Monthly expenses, I would say

we're, if I were to, we're actually I thought we were actually looking real quick. Is it $4,000, $5,000, somewhere around there? I would say about $2,000, to be honest, as far as expenses go. That's it? That'll cover

your mortgage payment, food, utilities, insurance? Yeah, I mean, as far as auto insurance, usually we pay that every five months. Sure. I would set up a sinking fund for those things in your every dollar budget where you set aside a certain amount every month so that you have that money ready to go when the payment comes due.

And it sounds like you're doing your every dollar budget. You're doing the right thing. So I would just park it in a good high-yield savings account, and any money beyond that can go toward, you know, maybe there's a renovation, a car upgrade, or you just throw it at the mortgage, extra on the principal. So I hope your wife's okay. It sounds like a pretty intense dog attack

to be getting a settlement this late in the game for $50,000. But, man, that's scary. All right. Anthony is in New York up next. What's going on, Anthony? Hey, guys. I love the content. Thank you for calling.

Thank you. What's going on? I have a quick question about investing. You know, I've always kind of been an aggressive saver, but it wasn't up until about two years ago that, I've always kind of been an aggressive saver. Um, but it wasn't up until about two years ago that I was able to like kind of organize my, my finances, um, put it into a brokerage account and start investing it. And, uh, up until about a few months ago, I started to, um, kind of really live by the 15% rule. Um, now my question comes into effect where i have an employer that a new employer that

has a vesting schedule and they have a match up to 15 up to five percent and um with their vesting schedule it doesn't allow for 100 up until i believe five years or so and it's a relatively new employer i'm just not sure if i I'm going to stay the full time to receive the 100% of the investing. Got it. Now, does it make sense to... I'm just wondering if it makes sense to use that as part of the 15% in my case or just do Roth? Well, the match is never part of the 15%. So if your employer match, you're still going to

invest 15% regardless. And if the employer matches 5% of that, that's great. That's gravy on top. What kind of account is this? What kind of retirement plan? So I do Roth on my own. And then for right now, I just would probably keep it as a 401k. Do they have a Roth 401k option? They do, yes, but I've never done that before. Okay, because if there's good funds in there, I mean, you could just do all 15% in that Roth 401k. Okay.

That's what I did for several years here at Ramsey, and at that point, it's just kind of a set it and forget it. Dial it in at 15%, Roth 401k, choose some good growth stock mutual funds of a set it and forget it. Dial it in at 15%, Roth 401k, choose some good growth stock mutual funds within there, and forget about it. And whether or not you're there for 20 years or three years, it's whatever.

You've still been investing 15%. You can take that account with you when you go, roll it over to an IRA later. Understood. So the 15% is what we put into it. Exactly, regardless of employer match. So it's not like, well, they put in five, so I'm is what we put into it. Exactly. Regardless of employer match. So it's not like, well, they put in five, so I'm going to only put in 10. You're going to invest 15% regardless of whatever the match is, and that'll get you there. And if you have too much money in retirement, you can call back and yell at us.

I can handle it. Take the heat on that one. You can Venmo Ken. Great question, man. Congrats. What kind of work are you doing and how much are you making? I work for a bank and I'm making about $85,000 right now. All right.

And how old are you? I'm 26. Cool. Are you single? Yes. Wonderful. You're going to be able to build a lot of wealth, man. You're debt-free with an emergency fund?

Yes, yes. As of right now, yeah. As of right now. Let. As of right now. Let's keep it that way. Let's not make any changes to that part. Yeah, you were doing so well. George was in a good mood and you threw that one at him. As of right now. I mean, the house is, hopefully a house

is coming soon. That's the only you know, right there. Gotcha. So you'll be investing 15%. Any money beyond that, any margin you have, can go to a high-yield savings account and start saving up for a down payment. Gotcha. So you'll be investing 15%. Any money beyond that, any margin you have can go to a high yield savings account and start saving up for a down payment. Awesome. Way to go, man. It's a good spot to be in. Way to go, Anthony. This is what happens, Ken. Young people get a hold of this stuff. They go,

I've been listening for a while, or I'm a financial peace baby. My parents followed this stuff. But it's incredible to see when you have time on your side, that makes all the difference when it comes to building wealth. Game changer. I just wish they taught every kid in high school, about 17, 18, or junior, senior year, and show them an investment calculator. Just once a quarter, go, hey, guys, we're going to just relook at what an investment calculator is, how it works. Let's plug some numbers in, because when people begin to see the power of compound interest with not a huge fortune that you're putting in, but the consistency, I think it would be a game changer. I really do. When you're in your 20s, every dollar you put in, that turns 20x later on. But when you're in your

50s or 60s, now you're talking about 2x. And so when you have time on your side, that dollar has a lot of power. Put it to good use. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell here with Ken Coleman, host of the newest show on The Ramsey Network, and I would say the hottest show on The Ramsey Network right now. It's called Front Row Seat, and it's all about conversations designed to help you get better, level up, and lead well. And Ken is one of the best interviewers out there, a great thought leader, and you have some great guests on the show, and you're pulling some great tidbits out of this for the people. It's a lot of fun, man. We're enjoying it. It's a really unique format in that we have a live audience, and they are part of the conversation. They're not props. They're listening. They actually ask questions.

They get to ask questions. And it's something I always wanted to do was kind of remove that barrier, if you will, bring everybody behind the velvet rope. So yeah, it's a lot of fun. We're excited. We've taped a lot of shows and constantly putting more people in. So we've got some real good content coming up for folks. And if you like a deep dive conversation, again, focused on helping you win professionally. And the way to do that is not just focusing on those hard skills and soft skills, but how am I growing personally? And then as I'm moving up the ladder, I'm going to have to lead effectively. So if you're a serious professional and you're hungry to learn and grow, this show's for you.

I love it. Be sure to check it out. New episodes of Front Row Seat every single Tuesday. You can catch it on YouTube, podcast, or in the Ramsey Network app. Let's go out to the phones. Debbie joins us in Sparks, Nevada. All right, what's going on, Debbie? Hi, yes, thank you so much for having me on. I have your podcast in my ear every day at work. Wow, oh, thank you. I get in to call in, and I've hit that portion where people say, you finally hit that rock bottom with the way that your life is going financially, and you're like,

I can't take it anymore. That's kind of where I'm at. Your I've had it moment. All right. What are you doing about it? Well, so my husband and I will be married six years this May. We've been together 15 years and known each other since we were 10 and 13 years old. He's always been horrible with money. We actually, I read Dave Ramsey's book the year we got engaged and it was literally in our marriage vows that we were going to be out of debt except for the mortgage within two years. Very specific vows. Very specific because I was, we were, I was super serious about it. I had it all written out, you know, that kind of thing. Was this your idea or his idea? It was both of ours, only because, you know,

in the 10 years prior that we were together, you know, it was really rocky with our finances and stuff. So when I agreed to marry him, I said, we have to be better with our money. And he agreed. And it was in our vows because of that. And then, of course, 2020 hit and COVID hit and, you know, like our plans and everything kind of went downhill. I'm a nurse.

So when I work in the recovery room, So we stopped doing, you know, planned surgeries and stuff like that for several months. And then we were only doing emergency surgeries for a while, you know, that kind of thing. So the first six or seven months of 2020, really, you know, he wasn't working much. And then my job kind of, you know,

I mean, I was able to work other places, but I was also recovering from a surgery that I had. So we ended up living off a credit card, you know, I mean, I was able to work other places, but I was also recovering from a surgery that I had. So, um, we ended up living off a credit card, you know? So then we just got into this. How much debt are you guys in now? Oh my gosh. So I actually refinanced my house, um, to roll my first mortgage and a key lock together, um, to, to reduce the interest and the help of payments. So my house right now is 506. And that includes a HELOC? Yeah, it rolled the HELOC in. So it's a whole brand new 30-year mortgage.

For 506? For 506, yeah. Okay, and what's left on the consumer debt? I have $45,000 in credit cards, and he has about $45,000 in credit cards. What do you guys make? What's the household income? I am the major breadwinner. I make, the last two years have been $140,000, $143,000. And then he started his own construction company.

He's a general contractor, basically. He started his own business, which has been his lifelong dream to have his own business, his handyman business where he does just everything himself. His bookkeeper on our taxes this last year said reportedly that he made about $30,000 and only made like maybe $7,000 in profit, you know, because, you know, he put so much into the business, out of the business. Why doesn't he just go work for someone else? Yeah, thank you.

Because he doesn't play nice in the sandbox with other people. Okay. We've tried that. How can we help today, Debbie? There's a lot of pieces to this. A lot going on. How can we best help you? There's a lot to unpack here.

What's the number one question? My biggest thing is, can I be successful doing baby steps separately from him? Because I feel like I can, you know, work on getting at least myself out of debt and getting to a place where, you know, I can manage things and afford things on my own if for some reason he isn't bringing in money or like right now. Okay, so here's the thing. You can do it.

We wouldn't recommend it because we want you to have finances that are running together, not separately. So our entire philosophy on this is we want a married couple having shared bank account. Everything is together. There isn't his money and my money and his accounts and my accounts. So that's what we recommend. And I know and I understand you've given us enough background to understand that, you know, you don't trust him. And that's why you're asking this question.

And that's the part where you guys have said, you don't have a money problem. You have a marriage problem. Totally. And we have a marriage counselor and we have, you know, it's like we've done the combining thing together. But his thing is, he doesn't feel like he'll open credit cards or he'll get a loan without telling me. Yeah.

And then we just get into it by ourselves. Well, that's financial infidelity. Yeah. So either you guys go, hey, we're freezing our credit. No decision will be made financially without both of our approval, including you, because right now he probably feels like you're the babysitter, so he has to go around you to do anything. A hundred percent.

And it's just enabling his childish behavior. And then you think he's a child. Because he's, let's be fair, he's been acting like a child. So can you do the baby steps? Yes. You can work on your debt and you can pay this off. It's going to go a lot slower and he's probably going to drag you down along the way.

Uh-huh. Are you doing anything about it? Are you going, you know, are you going to read a book go through financial peace what's your next step um um we signed up through financial peace university with our church finally i'm i have my first class tomorrow is he going the first two classes i'll be by myself only because he's leaving for the dominican he's doing an admissions trip with our church for a week all right let me let me ask this. Let me ask a question. Have you brought this issue up to your therapist, and you guys have talked about this in the presence of your therapist?

Yeah, well, we've only saw him two times last year, and then I've been asking him for months and months and months to get another appointment because he set it up originally, so I don't have a... Okay, so I'm not really clear. You said yes, but yes or no, in the two... That wasn't the main focus of our marriage at the time when we started going to therapy. Right. That wasn't the main focus.

So, I mean, it's... Well, I'm not telling you that it needs to be the main focus. Your therapist is the pro, but we also have another issue here where your husband doesn't want to go back. And now here you've signed up for FPU, and it's convenient that you're starting your classes while he's on a mission trip. While his family's in crisis, and he's making the equivalent of $3 an hour running this business. This guy has got to step up. Yeah. And you've got to put a clear

line in the sand. Does he know how dire this is? Yeah. I mean, every time he gets into this financial black hole, he gets depressed, and he gets angry, and he gets short, and he gets

you know, he knows that he does it, and then that's when he's like, okay, we got to make some changes and, you know, that kind of thing. And I mean, and it works for a little while, but he's never been all the way. He's unhealthy. He's never been 100%. He's unhealthy. I don't think he's able to.

We need him to call into the Dr. John Deloney show to deal with whatever's going on with him. There's some serious deep stuff there. Well, while I appreciate that, he needs more than a phone call on Deloney's show. He needs to actually sign up and go to therapy and get healthy. I don't think he has the capability. I'm not giving him an excuse. I'm just saying, I don't think he has the capability of doing this, what you're asking him to do until he actually gets healthy, George. Gets to the root of it. Oh my goodness. Hey, I'm rooting for you guys. You can do it on your own, but you need to get

him on board sooner rather than later. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Camel here with Ken Coleman. The number to call is 888-825- 5225. Before we get to the phones, Ken, we're hearing a lot of people say, hey, insurance is skyrocketing.

These premiums are getting out of control. Is there anything I can do to save some money? Because that's going to free up some margin in the budget, right? That's absolutely right. And so I wanted to give people six really practical things they can do in order to bring those premiums down. So let's walk through these real quick. Number one, raise your deductible. If you're out of baby step two and three, you're in four, five, six, you get the debt, you know, you get the

emergency fund, you're out of debt, it might be time to raise that deductible. And that means you're taking on a little bit more risk from the insurance company and a higher deductible will lower your premium. It's that simple. But that allows you to stack cash though, because, you know, while you may take higher risk, you presumably are saving more money. Exactly. So this is something to look into is raising that deductible. If you're out of debt, that can really help. Number two, cut unnecessary coverage.

You may not know that you have a bunch of stuff you don't really need. So make sure you only have the essential coverage for your home and car. Eliminate the extras, and that might mean adjusting your policy to fit your needs and reduce costs. Next one, take advantage of discounts. A lot of insurance companies offer discounts for things like you got a home security system. You get a discount for that. Paying or being mortgage-free. I have a mortgage-free discount on my homeowner's insurance, which is incredible.

And then paying for your premium in full. I try to do this with all my policies. Pay it annually. Set up a sinking fund in your every dollar budget. I do the same. And they'll give you a discount for that. This is a great one. Number four, consider life changes. If you have a major life event, like you got married, you moved, you may qualify for a lower insurance rate. For example, your commute affects your auto insurance. If you now have a shorter commute because of moving, that could actually help you get a discount. So the next one,

bundle policies. This is an obvious one, but if you have multiple policies like home and auto, use the same provider. That can lead to discounts, sometimes up to 25%. And then lastly, this is the biggest one for me. Shop around for better rates. Don't use a captive agent who can only shop one company's insurance policies. Use an independent broker. Now is the time to do that to see if you could save potentially hundreds of dollars. Love helping to do that to see if you could save potentially hundreds of dollars. Love helping people do that. So if you're ready to explore rates and make sure you have the right coverage, not too much, just the perfect amount and the right price, you got to work with a Ramsey Trusted Pro who will compare pricing, discounts,

and bundle deals for you at no extra cost. So if you want to learn more about this, go to ramsaysolutions.com slash bundle, or click the link in the show notes. And I'm telling you, those of you who are feeling the pinch in their budgets, feeling tight, insurance is one of the places I look to first to go, can we do better here without making crazy sacrifices? Work with an independent broker and they can help with all that. ramsaysolutions.com slash bundle. Let's go to the phones. Kevin joins us there in Phoenix. What's going on, Kevin? Hey, what's going on guys? Nothing much. How can we help? Oh, so I, so I

have about $8,000 in a 401k loan that I had taken out probably four or five years ago because I didn't want to use credit cards, um, to kind of pay some stuff that happened on the house. So my question is, would it be okay? Because we paid off about $55,000 worth of debt last year from stuff happening on the house, and now we have about $66,000 left, $40,000 in student loans, $8,000 in this 401K loan, and then some stuff that's tied to the house, like solar panels, essentially. So it ends up being about $359 a month to pay on those 401K loans. And I guess I could just cash them out and take the tax hit, whatever.

Whatever? It wouldn't be that much. Why is it whatever? It's 30% to 40% is what you're going to pay in taxes by cashing out your 401k. Oof, it's a lot of whatever. I think whatever is what got you guys into this situation. How much do you guys make? So when I had the 401k loan, right now, uh, right now we're making a little over a hundred thousand.

Uh, I had got laid off in 2023, uh, in kind of the tech field, I was doing information security and the market was just little trash in, in, in this area here, um, for that. So I went from making 125,,000 to now about $65,000. So it was definitely a huge hit in terms of... Why did you take the pay cut? I'm confused. I didn't take a pay cut. I was laid off. So you were laid off. You picked up a new job. Now doing what? Essentially just help desk work.

So I took a massive step down in terms of skill level, everything else. I guess I assume that you would have thought what our opinion would have been of this step, but maybe not. Maybe you're brand new to us. So from that standpoint, I'd just ask you, what about this plan makes sense to you? How does this make sense? I guess I figure, because it's such a low amount of money that's in the 401k, that it would make more practical sense to have the debt gone if it's at a higher interest rate than the current return on that 401k.

That's where the thought process came in. That's what I thought you were going to say. But you still haven't squared off that you're willing to take, you know, that money is there to be billed upon. Now you've already robbed it once, and now you're going, well, I've already robbed it once. Why not rob it all? But then there's the big tax hit, too. As opposed to just the flip side of this is what's wrong with just paying off the debt and doing what's necessary to pay it off and sell stuff use future income and allow that money to stay in the 401k not take a tax hit and and build on it how old are you oh that's why that's

why i called in because you know like sometimes you get a thought that in your head seems right but it doesn't make any sense to me. Because now you're taking away money that you're going to be penalized for taking away. And that to me is not worth it alone, just the taxes. While unplugging all of the future growth. It may not seem like a lot, but how old are you, Kevin? I'm 38. Okay. So let's go 38 to 68.

If you just left that $8,000 in there, right? Mm-hmm. Adding $0, it would turn into over $200,000. So that's what you're actually paying. If you do nothing. If you did nothing else other than just leave it in there and never contributed a dime. Versus robbing that $8,000, getting $4,000 out of it after taxes,

thinking that you've accomplished something to help your debt payoff. Such a small amount. Is the key to this getting your income back up and avoiding more debt? That's the solution here, not robbing what little you have in retirement. So how do we get your income back to six figures to get out of the state? You said you guys have paid $55,000 off, right? Yes. So you got $66,000 to go. The wife has been putting all of her money. I mean, you know,

we've done quite a bit to try to, you know, sell everything off, but it's like we're kind of coming to a point where it's like, I'm so sick of it being multiple years of doing this program, you know, trying to do it. And I'm just trying to find any way to accelerate it. And that's why the question kind of came up. So now we get into looking for shortcuts because I get it. You're tired, you're exhausted. You're like, oh my gosh, what else can we do here? I could rob the 401k to help. It's going to barely make a dent while also robbing you of all the future growth. And so for that reason, I would go, how can we make an extra four grand this year without robbing retirement?

Now this is a problem we can solve. Now we can talk about side hustles and overtime and increasing your full-time salary. This adds some solutions. So what is your household income now? It's just a little north of 110. Okay. So making 110, how long will it take to pay off 66 at the current rate? I looked at everything, and I think by the end of 2027.

Okay. So we're talking a little over two years, two and a half years, almost three. So now the question is, all right, if I want to knock this out in less than two, what's it going to take? It's going to take spending less and making more. And now we can find some real solutions here. Can either of you work overtime? Yeah, we can. It's not always available to us, but yes, that is an option.

And you said that you're in a role that is really you're overqualified for? Correct. Yeah. When I was listening to your qualifications earlier, Kevin, I was thinking you should be doing everything you can because of your ability, certainly remote work, to do as much contract work as you can. Freelance, do as much as you can. I think you'd be surprised what you could gather. And in your field, I feel like there's got to be jobs that are paying six figures with your qualifications and skillset. I would be hounding those to try to get my income back up to six figures, which will then speed up your debt payoff. But it's a great question. Hope everyone listening out there avoided ever taking out a 401k loan or making withdrawal. One of the worst

things you can do for your financial future. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, our scripture of the day, Ecclesiastes 4, 9, and 10. Two are better than one because they have a good return for their work. If either of them falls down, one can help the other up. But pity anyone who falls and has no one to help them. Will Ferrell once said, Before you marry a person, you should first make them use a computer with slow internet to see who they really are. That's good advice on this Valentine's Day, Ken. Only a comedian thinks of it that way, and it's actually brilliant.

That's a great way of saying that. That will drive anyone crazy. Oh, that or stand in line with them for a long time. Yeah, anything involving patience. That would be my test. That would be my test. You know what I'm saying? That would be bad. Is Stacy pretty patient? Oh, yeah. Are you the one with the lack of patience? I don't do well standing in line. He gets irritated. Yeah, I get it. Life's short. Yeah. All right, let's go out to Brody in Provo, Utah. What's going on, Brody? How can we help today? Hey, George. Hey, Ken. Really excited to talk to you, fellas. You bet. What's going on? Well, Ken, my man, this is a question right up your alley. Oh, boy. And it kind of ties in with

that Will Ferrell question. I can't wait to hear where this goes. Okay, hit me. So I had a job interview and I nailed it. I got the offer, but it's a significant pay cut. I make a 50K gross right now as a utility locator. And this new job pays $18 an hour base plus commission installing Google Fiber for residential buildings. It's a foot in the door to get into networking and out of construction. And my question is, do I take the job? I'm leaning towards not, do I take the job? I'm leaning towards not, and I have more context for finances if you guys need them. Yeah, tell me why you're leaning against, because my initial reaction is, no, don't take the pay cut.

I would have to have evidence that it was short-term and that it would quickly then turn into a pay bump. And so it doesn't sound like it's that, but give me the context as to why you're leaning against it. Well, I have other irons in the fire, and I might be able to get a different job opportunity in the spring when things kind of warm up, both temperature-wise and work-wise. Sure. So I don't really know, based on the mentors that I've talked to.

Both my uncles are in the IT field, and I also have another friend that's been advising me, and they're all kind of leaning towards the same result of not going in. Good. And give us the financial picture. Give us your personal finances. Well, my fiancé is running a barbershop that's not quite picked up. He's still kind of getting the foot traffic in, so that income isn't very consistent. And I do have a mortgage right now.

It's, I think, $2,600 a month. So I have that financial obligation. That's got to be like 60-something percent of your take-home pay. That's a lot. Yeah, it's pretty rough. It was okay when he had his W-2 position, or actually it was a 1099, working at a different barbershop, and we were able to make it work. But now that he's on his own, it's kind of…

So you guys were combining finances, or you were just essentially splitting the mortgage, essentially renting? We're getting married in April, and we're splitting the mortgage effectively between both of our incomes. Well, I've heard enough financially. This mortgage situation is… It's going to tank you mortgage situation is not good. And so, yeah, a pay cut for you is absolutely not okay. Okay.

You're not in a place of strength where you can take the pay cut and stomach it. It's not even a good calculated risk at this point. So I'm with everybody else in saying, no, don't take this job. That's what I'm thinking, too, just because even though it is that foot in the door, it's not really – it's not enough oomph to get back on the saddle. And I'm still on baby step one, so it's – Yeah, you need more income right now. You need more income. And here's the general rule, George. I said this before. I'll say it again. I am never in favor of someone taking a job that comes with a pay cut unless it is very short term.

You have prepared for that financially, so it's not going to hurt you. You've essentially prepared for that. And once that short-term period is over you are now back to where you were or above where you were and the last condition is this is the due you have to pay to move to where you want to move and but you're on the necessary essentially yeah i hope that's clear enough very those would be those are four factors that i i would just say to anybody who maybe resonates with that call uh that's your system that's your checklist if you will other than that uh i i like brody's decision here he's got other irons in the fire um so it increases the skill set and once you can get that networking job that makes sense that's right where

it's not a pay cut let's do it but he's in no financial i guess a fifth thing again and i kind of mentioned it in the in my first four steps say i financially plan for this well he's in baby step one and he's already got a mortgage that's too high for his income so no we're not going to take on any instability that's just to me crazy crazy town. That adds stress to the situation. All right. Let's go out to Danny in Minneapolis. What's going on, Danny? You with us? Hi. Hey. Yeah. So my question is, I recently got engaged. Congrats. Congrats. Thank you. And we're getting married in October. We set a date, and we're wondering, like, as we navigate paying for the wedding and kind of starting, you know, to see what that picture will look like,

when exactly do we put everything in one pot? Because I don't want to keep living like roommates, like, forever. We want to combine it. We just don't know when sure when you walk out of the church it's that day oh i mean specifically that day it doesn't have to be that exact day yeah i'm saying when you're married yeah it could be hey we came back from the honeymoon and went to the bank and opened up the joint account or here's what my wife and i did danny when we got married i just took my checking account and made it a joint checking account. So I still kept the same

bank. We shut hers down and she just joined mine. I did the same thing. I added Stacey to the account. So yeah, don't take me literally, but I mean, the point is, is we don't do this until we're married, but not a day before you're married. And until then you're going to have your own business. It's going to be, hey, Venmo me for the wedding thing, whatever. It's going to be a little bit wonky until then because there's joint things you're paying for. Yeah. It sounds like you're just excited.

You sound really sad about that. Oh, I'm just, I don't know. It's just like. What do you want to do? What's going on? Yeah, I do. Huh? No, I just, I'm ready.

We've been together a long time, and I'm like, when can we get this done? It'll be six years in April. Good gracious. Well, listen, I get it. I don't know why he took so long. I'm blaming it on him. I always blame it on the guys. But bottom line is, you waited six years.

How much longer are we talking about? It's October. Oh, my gosh. You can handle it. You're on the downside of this hill now. Are you guys both in a good place financially? Oh, yeah. Yep.

I'm in baby steps four, five, and six. Good. He is currently working on his uh three to six months uh awesome emergency fund so by the time you guys are married you will both be completely debt free with your own emergency funds correct that's amazing well yep yep so why why did you choose uh october as the date to get married? I love the fall, and we're actually getting married on my parents' 30th anniversary. That's very sweet. I'm going to make a very unpopular statement here, okay? Well, you can always get married tomorrow with the judge and do all that and then have the big ceremony in October. I know no bride wants to do that.

I get that what I just said made future brides and brides that are planning, brides-to-be that are planning, they're like, but I got to tell you, if it's that big of a deal, if it's that big of a deal, you're like, we've been together for six years and I just want to get this thing started, then go down and sign the license and have a judge marry you. You can do the pomp and circumstance in October. I know you're not going to do that, but I'm just throwing it out there because I think it'll help your mindset. The reason you're waiting this long until October, and that's why I asked the question.

Self-imposed. You self-imposed this date because you want to do the beautiful day, the special day, eat the cake, dance with dad. I get it, but that's why. Ken is nothing if not unpopular. So I appreciate that. I love it. I'm just telling you, he's a dude. I would have said, just let's go do the thing. We'll party later. We'll party later. Let's get the show on the road. That's right. Let's go straight to the honeymoon. That's good advice. That's what I would do. Thank you, Ken. Good show. Thank you to all the folks in the booth keeping the show

afloat. And thank you, America. Until next time, spend wisely, save intentionally and give generously.